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Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/joshchafetz/status/1237485549948149762

5 more days to stuff your face with germ filled crap.

I would guess China are shit scared of it boomeranging back round to them from places like Europe and the US.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Another personal update. Had a chat with my friend tonight who was going to accompany my wife and I to see Bryan Ferry in London on Friday. His parents are 77 and 79. My Mum is 77. We reluctantly decided to abandon our plans and give the concert a miss. Not that happy but we have to think of our parents.

Now I kind of hope that between now and Friday the Government bans large gatherings so they either postpone or I get my money back.

I feel your pain Richard, I have tickets for three football matches in the next eleven days (two of which could see Liverpool win the title) but I don't want to take that risk for similar reasons.

My daughter has just cancelled her weekend break to London with her 17year old daughter leaving on friday. Was going to shows and museums

Loss of circa £450 after refund of train fares

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

It is not just bored or fed up, it is desperate. How many businesses will go under if people can't work? I am lucky in that I can genuinely work from home for 95% of what I do but if the timing is wrong on this and I can't do the 5% I need to do in the client office then I will be out of business very quickly.

I do agree that we need a lock down. But getting the timings right is vital otherwise people will ignore it because the alterative is bankruptcy.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Dr Foxy, as I posted a few days ago I have basically locked my elderly parents away, however they need to visit the GP surgery for blood tests for underlying conditions.

Obviously any interaction with locations that revolve around health care provision for the sick have to be high risk.

What would you suggest to try and minimise risk?

I would travel by car, spend the minimum time possible there. Touch as little as possible, wash hands and clothes immediately upon getting home. I would go this week rather than next.

Thanks.

Obviously, we all disagree on stuff on here, we josh about, but I am sure I speak for all of us when we say massive support for what you are about to have to go through.

I hit 'like' on your reply but not sure that is the right emotion. We need an 'Empathise' button.

Richard_Tyndall said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

It is not just bored or fed up, it is desperate. How many businesses will go under if people can't work? I am lucky in that I can genuinely work from home for 95% of what I do but if the timing is wrong on this and I can't do the 5% I need to do in the client office then I will be out of business very quickly.

I do agree that we need a lock down. But getting the timings right is vital otherwise people will ignore it because the alterative is bankruptcy.

If the government ordered that all those who can work at home do so (on any given day) contacts would be vastly reduced without much if any economic damage. That to me is a sensible step.

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

IanB2 said:

IshmaelZ said:

nichomar said:

RobD said:

nichomar said:

alex_ said:

IshmaelZ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Coronavirus ‘worse than a bomb’ on Italy, says doctor coordinating response. Worrying saying many younger people appearing now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mrPHO-nkVE

I am hoping this is the day that the "just a flu, lol at the bedwetters" tendency are going to shut up. The situation in Italy now is clearly, on impeccable first hand evidence, at least as bad as the most pessimistic forecasts made by anybody here

I don’t see how that’s really true. The most pessimistic forecasts are 60% of the country getting it and 1-2% of the country dying. It may be that they are matching pessimistic forecast for the period since their first case, but that’s not quite the same.

A crisis is when people who need icu beds can’t get them, or when operating theaters are turned into icu beds and surgery for urgent cases gets postponed. We’re supposed to be an advanced civilization who can handle these issues, time the politicians stood up to the plate. It’s not % but knock on impact.

You would have preferred we wasted tens of billions on unneeded ICU beds over the past decades just to be ready for this? Given the finite resources available to the NHS, it is not really a surprise that they do that.

Actually casino made some suggestions that he hoped the government were already taking behind the scenes to manage this. There might be a reason why most other European countries have more icu beds per head than the UK . I’m just paranoid, no apologies just hoping the health service ‘In spain’ doesn’t break down when I need it for the first time

Paranoia is not paranoia in this context. Do not under any circumstances get infected by this disease - I mean, don't anyway, but especially not with your other issues.

I’d worry about having a heart attack or coming down with any serious condition, at the moment, and ending up in a virus-ridden stress-tested hospital. A bigger risk than dying from the virus, I’d say.

I think the death rate from the virus itself is likely to increase as medical facilities get more stretched and ICU beds aren't available. We are in the early stages in the UK and I expect all people testing positive are getting very good treatment at the moment

https://twitter.com/jq1234t/status/1237467344626122754

Foxy said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

Yes, I am positively impressed with how quickly it is fading in China and Korea. It is a severe storm, but a brief one. It will pretty much be over by the summer, I think.

There, yes. Here? Not so sure.

Anabobazina said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

It is not just bored or fed up, it is desperate. How many businesses will go under if people can't work? I am lucky in that I can genuinely work from home for 95% of what I do but if the timing is wrong on this and I can't do the 5% I need to do in the client office then I will be out of business very quickly.

I do agree that we need a lock down. But getting the timings right is vital otherwise people will ignore it because the alterative is bankruptcy.

If the government ordered that all those who can work at home do so (on any given day) contacts would be vastly reduced without much if any economic damage. That to me is a sensible step.

I agree. And I would abide by it. Unfortunately I may well still end up losing my business unless the client ceased operations entirely for the duration.

MyBurningEars said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JamesLiamCook/status/1237487755950768134

Anyone care to enlighten me about this 5G conspiracy?

Friend of mine (works in healthcare!!!!) has been going on about this supposed 5G-coronavirus link for ages, can't fathom what truth she sees in it. Thought she was just being "special" but turns it pops up on various places over the interwebs, I certainly see it in comments sections in places less educated than PB.com.

As levels of scientifically illiterate fake news go, this one is just spectacular. Electromagnetic radiation causes zoonotic viral epidemic? Seriously?

Part of me wonders if the whole rumour started as an elaborate joke by someone who should know better and it turned out there are enough daft folk around to propagate it. Or did it originate with a genuine conspiracy theorist/nutter?

I know the government needs to tackle coronavirus fake news, but stuff this fake almost doesn't deserve rebutting ... nobody who takes it half-seriously is going to be persuaded by an official government denying, they'd probably take that as the ultimate proof of its truth!

https://monitoring.bbc.co.uk/product/c201hmp9

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Dr Foxy, as I posted a few days ago I have basically locked my elderly parents away, however they need to visit the GP surgery for blood tests for underlying conditions.

Obviously any interaction with locations that revolve around health care provision for the sick have to be high risk.

What would you suggest to try and minimise risk?

I would travel by car, spend the minimum time possible there. Touch as little as possible, wash hands and clothes immediately upon getting home. I would go this week rather than next.

Thanks.

Obviously, we all disagree on stuff on here, we josh about, but I am sure I speak for all of us when we say massive support for what you are about to have to go through.

I think Mrs Foxy is more exposed than me, but there is a scary incidence of infections in health care workers. I am less in the front line than a lot of my colleagues, but it could be all hands to the pumps.

The only thing that makes me nervous is the protective equipment issue. I am not confident that stocks will last.

I think we are going to have to pray that this news that China are sending stuff to Italy is going to be widespread across Europe. China has the capacity to do it, we can find the money if required. Depends if there is political will on both sides.

I saw something about their ramp up of production of protective equipment and it was orders of magnitude in a matter of weeks. It would certainly be in the interest of China to make money out of keeping that extra capacity raking in the cash.

Richard_Tyndall said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

It is not just bored or fed up, it is desperate. How many businesses will go under if people can't work? I am lucky in that I can genuinely work from home for 95% of what I do but if the timing is wrong on this and I can't do the 5% I need to do in the client office then I will be out of business very quickly.

I do agree that we need a lock down. But getting the timings right is vital otherwise people will ignore it because the alterative is bankruptcy.

I think we need, and can come up with, some creative solutions to those sorts of issues. They are controllables. A hospital with 200 beds and 1000 people needing them there and then, I fear not so much.

Chameleon said:

Surely it makes sense to try and dovetail the new measures and the budget? If you're telling people to take cover, WFH and all that, it makes sense that you'll want to announce the measures to protect business at the same time.

Hence why tomorrow is clearly the logical time to do what the Govt has been suggesting what they're going to do, and move to delay.

That's why I said that tomorrow will give us our best insight yet as to how bad the government thinks its going to be.

MyBurningEars said:

Part of me wonders if the whole rumour started as an elaborate joke by someone who should know better and it turned out there are enough daft folk around to propagate it. Or did it originate with a genuine conspiracy theorist/nutter?

It was heavily pushed by Russian trollfarms for a while, and seems to have taken on a life of its on. There are basically subcultures obsessed with it now.

Richard_Tyndall said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

It is not just bored or fed up, it is desperate. How many businesses will go under if people can't work? I am lucky in that I can genuinely work from home for 95% of what I do but if the timing is wrong on this and I can't do the 5% I need to do in the client office then I will be out of business very quickly.

I do agree that we need a lock down. But getting the timings right is vital otherwise people will ignore it because the alterative is bankruptcy.

Oh I take that. There are no easy or perfect solutions here. But the indications from the far East is that it gets you past the peak and on the down slope within weeks. The way we are acting at the moment the peak is not in sight yet.

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

Indeed so, that’s exactly the case David. Our company moved to an 80% remote model today and I have heard of several others today doing similarly.

Unfortunately my employer, despite being extremely large and extremely high risk, is waiting on government recommendations.

People are asking if I can attend a large event in two weeks time?

Normalcy bias for real.

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JamesLiamCook/status/1237487755950768134

"more people are dying a day from other diseases"

But are the numbers going up as rapidly as coronavirus? Jesus some people are dumb.

There are large numbers and small numbers.

https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/status/1237455233330098177

It just makes you weep. America, what the hell were you thinking?

IshmaelZ said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

Or the Nudge Unit is rather good at its job? (Is there one, still?)

I believe the original egg-heads who ran it left and set up a private business that now advises lots of organisations. I also seemed to remember one of the leader had a break down, possibly alcoholism related, and stepped away from it.

alex_ said:

Nigelb said:

https://twitter.com/jq1234t/status/1237467344626122754

Middlesex? Has it been resurrected?

Counties of Massachusetts.

Nigelb said:

MyBurningEars said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

I've generally been satisfied with Hancock's performance at a very difficult time though part of me wonders if Hunt would have been a safer pair of hands.

But his wishy-washy answers to anything involving home-working, and a couple of other relatively low-cost individual or business-led actions, have been unconvincing I think. There is some stuff that is only going to happen at full tilt e.g. at smaller firms (rather than the better-prepared MNCs which already have secure alternative locations etc) when government gives a more positive green or red light. For example "now's a time when it would be good to take action X if you can, even if right now we're not dictating that you absolutely must; moreover, even if you decide not to go ahead with it right now, you really need to get prepared and investigate how you will do it soon, because we may be pushing it firmly in the near future".

This.
Social distancing well short of draconian lockdowns has a chance of working when the numbers are as low as they currently are. I get the feeling the government are being somewhat tardy in their advice.

I understand the difficulty, as large scale following of such advice is going to kill retail and leisure business for a period of time. But if they don’t act that is going to happen in any event.

Too slow. It's immensely frustrating.

As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

IshmaelZ said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

Or the Nudge Unit is rather good at its job? (Is there one, still?)

Not sure Mrs May was quite such a fan. Not nearly authoritarian enough.

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

Nudge theory. Government is running a lot of "future" measures up the flagpole in the hope that those who can follow those measures painlessly will enact them anyway. That allows them to delay mandating them for those for whom it will cause significant economic (or other) harm.

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

Nudge theory. Government is running a lot of "future" measures up the flagpole in the hope that those who can follow those measures painlessly will enact them anyway. That allows them to delay mandating them for those for whom it will cause significant economic (or other) harm.

Indeed but as I and others have repeatedly said why not just say “if your employees can work from home on any given day please have them do so”. It would still trigger a vast decrease in contacts without mandating it immediately (or at all). And would cause little or no economic damage.

FrancisUrquhart said:

As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

Just total fatalism from our Western leaders. 60% of China? What rubbish.

Something is seriously wrong with the decision making here.

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/1237493892091654146

At one point there was a theory that Trump public utterances were all part of an act and A/B testing messages until he hit the right one.

I think we can definitely once and for all debunk that one.

What is weird is that when you look at old footage he is comes across quite well. Still the slightly odd way of talking, but not total rambling nonsense.

RobD said:

alex_ said:

Nigelb said:

https://twitter.com/jq1234t/status/1237467344626122754

Middlesex? Has it been resurrected?

Counties of Massachusetts.

Ah! D'oh!

Nigelb said:

alex_ said:

Nigelb said:

https://twitter.com/jq1234t/status/1237467344626122754

Middlesex? Has it been resurrected?

You will find quite a number of English place names on the US East Coast.

Virginia has an Isle of Wight County that isn’t an island.

rottenborough said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

MyBurningEars said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JamesLiamCook/status/1237487755950768134

Anyone care to enlighten me about this 5G conspiracy?

Friend of mine (works in healthcare!!!!) has been going on about this supposed 5G-coronavirus link for ages, can't fathom what truth she sees in it. Thought she was just being "special" but turns it pops up on various places over the interwebs, I certainly see it in comments sections in places less educated than PB.com.

As levels of scientifically illiterate fake news go, this one is just spectacular. Electromagnetic radiation causes zoonotic viral epidemic? Seriously?

Part of me wonders if the whole rumour started as an elaborate joke by someone who should know better and it turned out there are enough daft folk around to propagate it. Or did it originate with a genuine conspiracy theorist/nutter?

I know the government needs to tackle coronavirus fake news, but stuff this fake almost doesn't deserve rebutting ... nobody who takes it half-seriously is going to be persuaded by an official government denying, they'd probably take that as the ultimate proof of its truth!

Unfortunately I think it is genuine.* I like to occasionally trawl the loony end of the t'interweb looking for good story ideas or just for a bit of entertainment and this one has been around for a while.

*By genuine of course I mean a genuine conspiracy theory which people actually believe it in very large numbers, not that it actually makes any sense or has any basis in fact.

What's the betting the origin of this 5G crap was a server farm near Moscow?

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to need Russian troll farms to dream up some of these lunatic theories. They were always there of course but now the internet allows them to reach hitherto undreamed of audiences.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Nigelb said:

williamglenn said:

RobD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JamesLiamCook/status/1237487755950768134

"more people are dying a day from other diseases"

But are the numbers going up as rapidly as coronavirus? Jesus some people are dumb.

There are large numbers and small numbers.

https://twitter.com/AmerIndependent/status/1237455233330098177

It’s like Dr Seuss with alzheimer’s....

LOL. Nearly spat my tea over the keyboard there. That is brilliant.

Cheers.
My wife tells me I’m funny around one in every hundred attempts. I take that as a compliment.

DavidL said:

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

This is the infuriating thing. People *want* to do the right thing. But there are still a bunch of people out there who won't take it seriously until enough people have died to make it hard for a lot of people to start working from home or whatever in case they're thought badly of by their boss. They just need everybody to be told it's what they should be doing.

Why is your government so shit?

edmundintokyo said:

DavidL said:

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

This is the infuriating thing. People *want* to do the right thing. But there are still a bunch of people out there who won't take it seriously until enough people have died to make it hard for a lot of people to start working from home or whatever in case they're thought badly of by their boss or whatever. They just need everybody to be told it's what they should be doing.

Why is your government so shit?

Perhaps the effect is so small at the moment that it's not worth it? They spent a lot of the previous press conference going on about how timing the response is critical.

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

At one point there was a theory that Trump public utterances were all part of an act and A/B testing messages until he hit the right one.

I think we can definitely once and for all debunk that one.

What is weird is that when you look at old footage he is comes across quite well. Still the slightly odd way of talking, but not total rambling nonsense.

I know somebody who has had business dealings with Trump.

They said Trump actually thinks he's the most intelligent person ever, he thinks everything is worthy of a Nobel Prize.

He has no self awareness and thinks his critics are just jealous of his success.

Did they get away with their wallet intact ?

Nigelb said:

GideonWise said:

Nigelb said:

MyBurningEars said:

DavidL said:

Anabobazina said:

DavidL said:

Foxy said:

To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.

I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

I've generally been satisfied with Hancock's performance at a very difficult time though part of me wonders if Hunt would have been a safer pair of hands.

But his wishy-washy answers to anything involving home-working, and a couple of other relatively low-cost individual or business-led actions, have been unconvincing I think. There is some stuff that is only going to happen at full tilt e.g. at smaller firms (rather than the better-prepared MNCs which already have secure alternative locations etc) when government gives a more positive green or red light. For example "now's a time when it would be good to take action X if you can, even if right now we're not dictating that you absolutely must; moreover, even if you decide not to go ahead with it right now, you really need to get prepared and investigate how you will do it soon, because we may be pushing it firmly in the near future".

This.
Social distancing well short of draconian lockdowns has a chance of working when the numbers are as low as they currently are. I get the feeling the government are being somewhat tardy in their advice.

I understand the difficulty, as large scale following of such advice is going to kill retail and leisure business for a period of time. But if they don’t act that is going to happen in any event.

Too slow. It's immensely frustrating.

Government following not leading.

Two things which ought to be possible without unacceptable costs are ramping up the official social distancing advice, and greatly increasing the rate of testing.

It takes time once guidance has been released to start following it!

One more day to wait. Please please please give us something sensible tomorrow!

GideonWise said:

Unfortunately my employer, despite being extremely large and extremely high risk, is waiting on government recommendations.

Yes, this is what concerns me. There's a lot of "judge things for yourself", "you're best placed to assess your own risks", "people can look at the information and make their own decisions" kind of attitude from authorities at the moment. This applies in spades to travel advice as well as to working from home and various other issues.

In reality we are largely not well-placed to make decisions because what's going on is uncertain and the government are the ones with the best information and advice (and even they lack certainty!). Government is choosing, presumably for carefully considered reasons, not to release all of the information and advice they know - for example I presume their caution in revealing their "most likely" scenario, rather than their "worst case" one, is that they want people to take this thing seriously. But sometimes the rest of us would like a tip in the right direction.

I fear decision-making in a lot of companies and organisations is very much "we'll do it when we get officially prodded to do it", and that may be exacerbated by factors like nobody wanting to take a hit from being first-mover in their sector. As individuals we have a very substantial degree of freedom in this country (I'm especially lucky being self-employed and able to do most of my work remotely anyway) but important decisions for employees are often largely in the hands of their managers.

IshmaelZ said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

So why have 80,000 Chinese rather than getting on for a billion been infected?

You believe that the infection has been all but eradicated in China?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/1237493892091654146

Why is half of Michigan absent?

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1237455577774731265?s=20

There's a certain irony here. The new Italian leadership was supposed to be very US (and particularly Trump) friendly.

But Italy needs both money and help.

The US (and the EU) is leaving the field, and China is filling the void.

That is the measure of Trump's ultimate achievement. He has allowed the western alliance to untangle, to nobody but China's benefit.

glw said:

GideonWise said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

Just total fatalism from our Western leaders. 60% of China? What rubbish.

Something is seriously wrong with the decision making here.

It's hard to reconcile China closing temporary hospitals, as though the worst is over or at least they can take a breather, with forecasts of it eventually hitting such high numbers.

The Chinese do seem very confident at the moment. They're not only closing temporary hospitals, but donating medical equipment to the west.

MyBurningEars said:

GideonWise said:

Unfortunately my employer, despite being extremely large and extremely high risk, is waiting on government recommendations.

Yes, this is what concerns me. There's a lot of "judge things for yourself", "you're best placed to assess your own risks", "people can look at the information and make their own decisions" kind of attitude from authorities at the moment. This applies in spades to travel advice as well as to working from home and various other issues.

In reality we are largely not well-placed to make decisions because what's going on is uncertain and the government are the ones with the best information and advice (and even they lack certainty!). Government is choosing, presumably for carefully considered reasons, not to release all of the information and advice they know - for example I presume their caution in revealing their "most likely" scenario, rather than their "worst case" one, is that they want people to take this thing seriously. But sometimes the rest of us would like a tip in the right direction.

I fear decision-making in a lot of companies and organisations is very much "we'll do it when we get officially prodded to do it", and that may be exacerbated by factors like nobody wanting to take a hit from being first-mover in their sector. As individuals we have a very substantial degree of freedom in this country (I'm especially lucky being self-employed and able to do most of my work remotely anyway) but important decisions for employees are often largely in the hands of their managers.

Or maybe the Government does, in fact, know best/what it is doing? More so than the keyboard warriors.

rcs1000 said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Another personal update. Had a chat with my friend tonight who was going to accompany my wife and I to see Bryan Ferry in London on Friday. His parents are 77 and 79. My Mum is 77. We reluctantly decided to abandon our plans and give the concert a miss. Not that happy but we have to think of our parents.

Now I kind of hope that between now and Friday the Government bans large gatherings so they either postpone or I get my money back.

I saw Bryan Ferry in concert and was right at the front, literally two yards from him.

It was great

Although I'm not sure I'd risk Coronavirus to see him.

Thanks... I think.

justin124 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

justin124 said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

stodge said:

HYUFD said:

Ireland, a country without a government facing a Sinn Fein surge and where Northern Ireland is not about to be reunited with the South.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/just-29-in-northern-ireland-would-vote-for-unity-major-study-reveals-38966196.html

Scotland, an SNP government failing on the NHS and education.

Wales almost voted against having an Assembly let alone for independence and voted Leave just like England, it might make sense that Wales has a Tory majority but little more

Anyone would think you were implying that if each of these nations united with good old Tory-run England and accepted the benevolence of Conservative administration they would be happier, wealthier and no one would ever have the wobbles again.

True for Wales

Big_G_NorthWales said:

stodge said:

HYUFD said:

Ireland, a country without a government facing a Sinn Fein surge and where Northern Ireland is not about to be reunited with the South.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/just-29-in-northern-ireland-would-vote-for-unity-major-study-reveals-38966196.html

Scotland, an SNP government failing on the NHS and education.

Wales almost voted against having an Assembly let alone for independence and voted Leave just like England, it might make sense that Wales has a Tory majority but little more

Anyone would think you were implying that if each of these nations united with good old Tory-run England and accepted the benevolence of Conservative administration they would be happier, wealthier and no one would ever have the wobbles again.

True for Wales

I have always been a firm opponent of Welsh Devolution and would be delighted to see the Assembly abolished - but it remains true that its purse strings are controlled by Westminster.

It is not that it is how they spend it

The inability to raise revenue clearly limits the services provided in terms of quality and quantity.

You obviously have no idea about the Welsh labour government on devolved tax

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tax-is-changing-in-wales

RobD said:

edmundintokyo said:

DavidL said:

You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.

This is the infuriating thing. People *want* to do the right thing. But there are still a bunch of people out there who won't take it seriously until enough people have died to make it hard for a lot of people to start working from home or whatever in case they're thought badly of by their boss or whatever. They just need everybody to be told it's what they should be doing.

Why is your government so shit?

Perhaps the effect is so small at the moment that it's not worth it? They spent a lot of the previous press conference going on about how timing the response is critical.

Sorry, how can the effect be “so small” as to make a non-enforced WFH recommendation “not worth it”? What’s your logic here?

BigRich said:

Just in case anybody whats a brake from talking about the virus and move on to the elections being held for the democratic Primarys today:

The following states are voting today:

Idaho (S)
Michigan (S)
Mississippi
Missouri
Washington
North Dakota (S)

Sanders won 3 of them last time, Marked with an (S)

How many will he win this time?

If he loses all of them will he pull out before the next debate?

If he wins more than last time will his campaign get a second wind?

I'd like to see that, as I think he's best placed to make the US face up to its health crisis in this hour of need, but it must surely be all over for him, for the candidacy rather than as a movement.

I rather hope I'm wrong, though.