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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    IanB2 said:

    Comparison between flu and Corona are surely unfair because we have a vaccine for flu.

    Once we get a vaccine for Corona things will become clearer. and I suggest much calmer.

    Only 18 months to wait, then.
    There are I understand some teams working on it that think they can have a functioning Vaccine in 6 months, they may be wrong, indeed the 18 month estimate may tern out to be too optimistic, but given the number of teams working on it and the priority that they will be given in there organisations, i suspect it will be closer to 6 months than 18 months.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    BigRich said:

    IanB2 said:

    Comparison between flu and Corona are surely unfair because we have a vaccine for flu.

    Once we get a vaccine for Corona things will become clearer. and I suggest much calmer.

    Only 18 months to wait, then.
    There are I understand some teams working on it that think they can have a functioning Vaccine in 6 months, they may be wrong, indeed the 18 month estimate may tern out to be too optimistic, but given the number of teams working on it and the priority that they will be given in there organisations, i suspect it will be closer to 6 months than 18 months.
    Research, identification, testing, approval, production. 18 months minimum, unless we are able to cut some corners (I did see suggestions that some existing anti-viral treatments - aided cure, not prevention - might be available sooner).
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    Club Med are also giving good deals on skiing trips.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608
    "Ponce Pilate était un visionnaire." Brilliant.
  • @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    The cruise ships are very safe for children and I expect the cruises will be heavily discounted

    However, the bigger problem might well be the insurance premiums especially if the US is involved.

    I spoke to a lady who is going to Florida on a 10 day land based holiday in June and the insurance premium for her jumped from £180 to £240 in 48 hours. The insurer said their quotes are not even valid by the hour in this market, let alone days !!!!
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    eadric said:

    For comparison, Italy.

    If Model L is right, and it doubles every four days (roughly) then in one month Italy will have 320,000 cases, which means 10,000 dead (on a CFR of 3%) and 30,000 critically ill.

    It's that critically ill number which is menacing.

    I don't think that cases are increasing that quickly, although confirmed cases are. We're (hopefully) seeing testing catch up to the true scale.

    However there is the unpalatable possibility that perhaps cases are growing father than they can test, which leads to a bad conclusion.

    And yeah, with numbers 10 times as big the mortality rate will increase significantly.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I think I'm going to go for the Vulcan "live long and prosper" greeting with my fingers.

    Different finger greetings for less favoured people.
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608

    Monkeys said:

    We should bow, like the Japanese.

    Perfect for our new outward-looking nation.

    Bowing brings your faces closer together.

    Briefly placing your hand on your heart seems more appropriate to me.
    I'm with Eristdoof. Vulcan salute all the way.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    They are *really* trying to keep the F1 season going ahead:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51727401
    "Bahrain is instigating special measures for Formula 1 personnel working at its grand prix later this month in the wake of the global coronavirus outbreak.

    The Gulf state has imposed a 14-day quarantine on travellers from countries where outbreaks are most severe, including Italy, home of Ferrari.

    But authorities are planning an expedited process for F1 personnel to limit the effect of the restrictions."
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,701
    eadric said:

    Sounds like if you're fit and healthy now is an opportunity in the lifetime for a visit to Venice ;)

    You could visit all the locations of Death in Venice.

    Which features a plague, of course
    And there's a yet-to-be-written classic Death in Croydon:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croydon_typhoid_outbreak_of_1937
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Barnesian said:

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    Club Med are also giving good deals on skiing trips.
    You do not want to go skiing because you do not want to end up in intensive care (or a long queue for intensive care) in a coronavirus ridden hospital, which is the nailed on consequence of a serious skiing accident at least in Italy atm. Same applies to other risk sports.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    eadric said:

    The stories out of America keep getting worse:

    "The potential first case of coronavirus in Florida is having trouble getting verified thanks to the alleged refusal of health officials to conduct the necessary tests, according to CBS Miami.

    "Speaking to CBS Miami, a woman who requested to remain anonymous said she started experiencing symptoms after a trip to Italy, but was unable to get a proper diagnosis.


    “The doctor himself told me that, you know, he thinks that the results of my [preliminary] tests mean that I most likely have the COVID-19, but that the Department of Health did not want to pursue it further,” the woman said. “It was either the Department of Health or the CDC that decided not to further pursue the inquiry. But I was basically told that it is most likely that I have this virus and that I should self-quarantine.”

    “Obviously, I would have liked to know if, in fact, I have this virus,” she added.


    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/doctors-tell-florida-woman-she-likely-has-coronavirus-but-refuse-to-test-her-for-it/

    It's probably already out of control there.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279

    Chameleon said:
    3% mortality rate.

    Although we don't know how many asymptomatic people there are.
    The mortality rate in South Korea is 0.5%. Why the difference?
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited March 2020
    Andy_JS said:


    The mortality rate in South Korea is 0.5%. Why the difference?

    Mass testing catching less serious cases?

    Obviously the deaths side of the equation is going to be pretty accurate. Total cases though is inevitably going to be an underestimate, especially early on.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,394

    Sounds like if you're fit and healthy now is an opportunity in the lifetime for a visit to Venice ;)

    Yep. We went to Istanbul during a terrorism scare a few years back and it was great. We were popular with the cafe owners. And it's a magnificent city when not thronging.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    eadric said:

    RobD said:

    eadric said:

    The stories out of America keep getting worse:

    "The potential first case of coronavirus in Florida is having trouble getting verified thanks to the alleged refusal of health officials to conduct the necessary tests, according to CBS Miami.

    "Speaking to CBS Miami, a woman who requested to remain anonymous said she started experiencing symptoms after a trip to Italy, but was unable to get a proper diagnosis.


    “The doctor himself told me that, you know, he thinks that the results of my [preliminary] tests mean that I most likely have the COVID-19, but that the Department of Health did not want to pursue it further,” the woman said. “It was either the Department of Health or the CDC that decided not to further pursue the inquiry. But I was basically told that it is most likely that I have this virus and that I should self-quarantine.”

    “Obviously, I would have liked to know if, in fact, I have this virus,” she added.


    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/doctors-tell-florida-woman-she-likely-has-coronavirus-but-refuse-to-test-her-for-it/

    It's probably already out of control there.
    It is estimated there are 300-500 untested cases in Oregon alone. Just Oregon!

    So, yes.

    https://twitter.com/seattletimes/status/1234876576937979910?s=20
    This must have been before the interest rates were cut. :p
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    RobD said:

    eadric said:

    The stories out of America keep getting worse:

    "The potential first case of coronavirus in Florida is having trouble getting verified thanks to the alleged refusal of health officials to conduct the necessary tests, according to CBS Miami.

    "Speaking to CBS Miami, a woman who requested to remain anonymous said she started experiencing symptoms after a trip to Italy, but was unable to get a proper diagnosis.


    “The doctor himself told me that, you know, he thinks that the results of my [preliminary] tests mean that I most likely have the COVID-19, but that the Department of Health did not want to pursue it further,” the woman said. “It was either the Department of Health or the CDC that decided not to further pursue the inquiry. But I was basically told that it is most likely that I have this virus and that I should self-quarantine.”

    “Obviously, I would have liked to know if, in fact, I have this virus,” she added.


    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/doctors-tell-florida-woman-she-likely-has-coronavirus-but-refuse-to-test-her-for-it/

    It's probably already out of control there.
    Little probably about it. They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how interconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 400-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days (also generous). You can do the maths on that. The US needs to get a handle on this now.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector.
  • My concern about the US is rising and if it is out of control as has been suggested the ramifications for all of us and especially the US are incalculable.

    In the circumstances that the US becomes subject to FCO and other travel restrictions the economic effects could be huge.

    As I have maintained all along the economic hit is going to be far worse than the health one
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    eadric said:

    Animal_pb said:

    Filthy forrinurs!

    twitter.com/quatremer/status/1234890687461691394?s=20

    "Ponce Pilate était un visionnaire." Brilliant.

    Filthy forrinurs!

    twitter.com/quatremer/status/1234890687461691394?s=20

    Look at that Turkey stat. 94% wash their hands, and very few Coronavirus cases

    It's like the Day of the Triffids, when it turns out they can be killed with sea water, or whatever.

    It's the washin' of the 'ands wot will save us!
    When you consider what they use their left hand for, it is hardly surprising it gets a good wash....
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997
    eadric said:

    Animal_pb said:

    "Ponce Pilate était un visionnaire." Brilliant.
    Look at that Turkey stat. 94% wash their hands, and very few Coronavirus cases

    It's like the Day of the Triffids, when it turns out they can be killed with sea water, or whatever.

    It's the washin' of the 'ands wot will save us!
    They're a Muslim country, it goes with the culture. Bosnia is up there too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mortality rate from influenza in the United States in 2017/18 was 1 in 733 according to this document. 44,802,629 cases and 61,099 fatalities.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

    That 1 in 733 figure is interesting because so far in 10 countries — Germany, Spain, Singapore, Kuwait, UK, Bahrain, Switzerland, Malaysia, Norway, Canada — there have been 749 cases and no fatalities. I know it's very optimistic to hope that all of those cases result in a full recovery.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    749 cases, not 749 people fully recovered. So far we have 749 test cases, all of whom will hopefully recover but we don't know yet.
    Yes, and the countries have been cherry picked. France has had 4 deaths.
    I don't think it counts as cherry picking. It's simply looking at countries which haven't experienced any fatalities yet.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    BigRich said:

    Chameleon said:
    Indeed. Italy has an average 17,000 deaths from the flu per annum. Currently COVID is running at below 0.5% of that total.
    If Italy does average 17,000 deaths from flu per year, that is a lot more than the UK, where it is about 4,000 IIRC, for a similer size population.

    It could be for a lot of reasons, highly speculative to say this, but perhaps by extrapolation, the same reasons will kick in and we will also see less deaths for COV19?

    Would enplane why Italy has been so much worse than the rest of Europe?
    68k deaths over a 4 year period: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(19)30328-5/fulltext

    Italy is exceptional compared to other European nations when it comes to flu, so unsurprising they'd be exceptional compared to other nations with COVID too.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    Club Med are also giving good deals on skiing trips.
    You do not want to go skiing because you do not want to end up in intensive care (or a long queue for intensive care) in a coronavirus ridden hospital, which is the nailed on consequence of a serious skiing accident at least in Italy atm. Same applies to other risk sports.
    That`s a good point. I was planning another trip in April. Suppose France or Austria would be a bit safer.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    I think I'm going to go for the Vulcan "live long and prosper" greeting with my fingers.

    Different finger greetings for less favoured people.

    Still two big wet sloppy kisses for @Cyclefree on each cheek from me.
  • Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    Club Med are also giving good deals on skiing trips.
    You do not want to go skiing because you do not want to end up in intensive care (or a long queue for intensive care) in a coronavirus ridden hospital, which is the nailed on consequence of a serious skiing accident at least in Italy atm. Same applies to other risk sports.
    That`s a good point. I was planning another trip in April. Suppose France or Austria would be a bit safer.
    Norway and Finland safer
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279

    BigRich said:

    Chameleon said:
    Indeed. Italy has an average 17,000 deaths from the flu per annum. Currently COVID is running at below 0.5% of that total.
    If Italy does average 17,000 deaths from flu per year, that is a lot more than the UK, where it is about 4,000 IIRC, for a similer size population.

    It could be for a lot of reasons, highly speculative to say this, but perhaps by extrapolation, the same reasons will kick in and we will also see less deaths for COV19?

    Would enplane why Italy has been so much worse than the rest of Europe?
    68k deaths over a 4 year period: https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(19)30328-5/fulltext

    Italy is exceptional compared to other European nations when it comes to flu, so unsurprising they'd be exceptional compared to other nations with COVID too.
    Older population?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Has anyone considered the counterfactual?

    That the Democrats cancel the remaining primaries and hold an extraordinary (early) national convention by April with all outstanding states delegates being “unbound” but end up declaring their candidate (Biden) and closing the whole process down?

    Is that a thing?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mortality rate from influenza in the United States in 2017/18 was 1 in 733 according to this document. 44,802,629 cases and 61,099 fatalities.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

    That 1 in 733 figure is interesting because so far in 10 countries — Germany, Spain, Singapore, Kuwait, UK, Bahrain, Switzerland, Malaysia, Norway, Canada — there have been 749 cases and no fatalities. I know it's very optimistic to hope that all of those cases result in a full recovery.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    749 cases, not 749 people fully recovered. So far we have 749 test cases, all of whom will hopefully recover but we don't know yet.
    Yes, and the countries have been cherry picked. France has had 4 deaths.
    I don't think it counts as cherry picking. It's simply looking at countries which haven't experienced any fatalities yet.
    That's by definition cherrypicking.

    "I don't think it counts as cherry picking, it's simply looking at all the branches with cherries"
  • eadric said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    Club Med are also giving good deals on skiing trips.
    You do not want to go skiing because you do not want to end up in intensive care (or a long queue for intensive care) in a coronavirus ridden hospital, which is the nailed on consequence of a serious skiing accident at least in Italy atm. Same applies to other risk sports.
    That`s a good point. I was planning another trip in April. Suppose France or Austria would be a bit safer.
    Norway and Finland safer
    Caithness even better.
    Not much skiing there but the Grampians and Aviemore are a better bet
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279

    Andy_JS said:

    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mortality rate from influenza in the United States in 2017/18 was 1 in 733 according to this document. 44,802,629 cases and 61,099 fatalities.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

    That 1 in 733 figure is interesting because so far in 10 countries — Germany, Spain, Singapore, Kuwait, UK, Bahrain, Switzerland, Malaysia, Norway, Canada — there have been 749 cases and no fatalities. I know it's very optimistic to hope that all of those cases result in a full recovery.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    749 cases, not 749 people fully recovered. So far we have 749 test cases, all of whom will hopefully recover but we don't know yet.
    Yes, and the countries have been cherry picked. France has had 4 deaths.
    I don't think it counts as cherry picking. It's simply looking at countries which haven't experienced any fatalities yet.
    That's by definition cherrypicking.

    "I don't think it counts as cherry picking, it's simply looking at all the branches with cherries"
    There's nothing wrong with trying to work out why a lot of countries haven't had any fatalities yet despite a fair number of cases. That's what I was doing.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    IanB2 said:

    The most bizarre thing about this crisis is how mortal enemies Iran and the USA have both been pushed back to calling upon religion for salvation.

    Add in the home of the Catholic church and the South Korean sect and its almost as if prayer isnt as good at dealing with illnesses as science. Who would have thought it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    The cruise ships are very safe for children and I expect the cruises will be heavily discounted

    However, the bigger problem might well be the insurance premiums especially if the US is involved.

    I spoke to a lady who is going to Florida on a 10 day land based holiday in June and the insurance premium for her jumped from £180 to £240 in 48 hours. The insurer said their quotes are not even valid by the hour in this market, let alone days !!!!
    Glad I got my insurance for our May trip to NY last year then.

    OTH I might have got a big discount on the actual crossing, I guess - although, since it was recently sold out in the cabin class we wanted, maybe not?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited March 2020

    Has anyone considered the counterfactual?

    That the Democrats cancel the remaining primaries and hold an extraordinary (early) national convention by April with all outstanding states delegates being “unbound” but end up declaring their candidate (Biden) and closing the whole process down?

    Is that a thing?

    Either way I don't think the prognosis looks that good for the democrats. Sanders is a risk for the democrats but may win, but I think Biden is an even bigger risk. Lacking Sanders' agility on his feet, if the Sanders constituency perceive a stitch-up either between Buttigieg and Klobuchar, or through a convention process, the democrats will suffer will suffer more widely from a big drop in turnout.

    I think that all adds up to making things look relatively good for Trump, even if there's a major coronavirus outbreak - unless there's an unpredicted upset at one of the debates, and Sanders is the one much more capable of that.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mortality rate from influenza in the United States in 2017/18 was 1 in 733 according to this document. 44,802,629 cases and 61,099 fatalities.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

    That 1 in 733 figure is interesting because so far in 10 countries — Germany, Spain, Singapore, Kuwait, UK, Bahrain, Switzerland, Malaysia, Norway, Canada — there have been 749 cases and no fatalities. I know it's very optimistic to hope that all of those cases result in a full recovery.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    749 cases, not 749 people fully recovered. So far we have 749 test cases, all of whom will hopefully recover but we don't know yet.
    Yes, and the countries have been cherry picked. France has had 4 deaths.
    I don't think it counts as cherry picking. It's simply looking at countries which haven't experienced any fatalities yet.
    That's by definition cherrypicking.

    "I don't think it counts as cherry picking, it's simply looking at all the branches with cherries"
    There's nothing wrong with trying to work out why a lot of countries haven't had any fatalities yet despite a fair number of cases. That's what I was doing.
    Indeed and nothing wrong with that, but its accurate [not critical] to say its cherrypicked data. If 1/733 is average and you select a pool of 749 from groups knowing they have 0 fatalities then your 0 is both very close to the average anyway and hardly surprising given the cherrypicking.

    There may be a reason of course.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    A Biden undergoing dementia would be much less of a danger.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287

    eadric said:

    Animal_pb said:

    Filthy forrinurs!

    twitter.com/quatremer/status/1234890687461691394?s=20

    "Ponce Pilate était un visionnaire." Brilliant.

    Filthy forrinurs!

    twitter.com/quatremer/status/1234890687461691394?s=20

    Look at that Turkey stat. 94% wash their hands, and very few Coronavirus cases

    It's like the Day of the Triffids, when it turns out they can be killed with sea water, or whatever.

    It's the washin' of the 'ands wot will save us!
    When you consider what they use their left hand for, it is hardly surprising it gets a good wash....
    The sea water"solution" was in the film.. IIRC the book said they were hoping to find something to kill off the triffids but nothing had been found. its a long time since I read it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I was at a livery hall event last night where I saw two 75 year olds unironically bump elbows on meeting. I was halfway between being amused and being impressed at their pragmatic adaptability to changing circumstances.

    A lovely smile is perfectly fine. Why the need to touch someone at all?
    Update from the front line. Am in Paris for meetings.

    Of the three, one cancelled because they are trying to cut down on interactions with travellers, one cancelled because the markets are crazy, and one withdrew his hand as I put mine (newly sanitised) out to shake it.

    Uber driver most phlegmatic of the lot.
    Phlegm-atic might not be want you want from your Uber driver right now :wink:
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Will Eadric set a record for the most posts by a single person on one PB thread? With extra marks for determined focus. A nation awaits with interest.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    What has he done ? It’s only a few days ago it was a Democrat plot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    matt said:

    Will Eadric set a record for the most posts by a single person on one PB thread? With extra marks for determined focus. A nation awaits with interest.

    Is that SeanT's old record... or Byronic's?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:

    They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how intraconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 750-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days. You can do the maths on that.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    It's not just Trump, it is the entire GOP ethos to evidence based policy and effective executive action. The thing that derailed the Bush Jr presidency was the utterly bungle Huricane KATRINA response, brought about by the gutting of actual effective leadership of FEMA.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Looks like NYSE investors are seeing the interest rate cut as a sign of how bad it is and selling accordingly. Who'd a thunk it, eh?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    I think I'm going to go for the Vulcan "live long and prosper" greeting with my fingers.

    Different finger greetings for less favoured people.

    Still two big wet sloppy kisses for @Cyclefree on each cheek from me.
    😊
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    You are blind to Trump.

    He is a total disaster both on climate change and now this
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,415

    eadric said:

    Animal_pb said:

    "Ponce Pilate était un visionnaire." Brilliant.
    Look at that Turkey stat. 94% wash their hands, and very few Coronavirus cases

    It's like the Day of the Triffids, when it turns out they can be killed with sea water, or whatever.

    It's the washin' of the 'ands wot will save us!
    They're a Muslim country, it goes with the culture. Bosnia is up there too.
    Like Iran
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    So Trump doesn’t have any duty to lead effectively because “China started it”?

    Perhaps American investors (because all that’s Trump seems to care about) might take the view that the worse Trump handles it, the worse for them...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    You are blind to Trump.

    He is a total disaster both on climate change and now this
    China also emits more carbon dioxide even than Trump's USA too
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    You are blind to Trump.

    He is a total disaster both on climate change and now this
    China also emits more carbon dioxide even than Trump's USA too
    Once you add in the hot air from the White House it’s less polluting overall though.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:


    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Electronic touch screen voting machines.

    The. Fucking. Horror.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    Looks like NYSE investors are seeing the interest rate cut as a sign of how bad it is and selling accordingly. Who'd a thunk it, eh?

    Yes. The small sell position I had from this morning was several hundred pounds underwater by mid afternoon; when the market jumped I took out another sell position, as I said I would this morning, and together they have just moved into profit. On the basis that there isn’t much more the central banks can offer, and the medical news looks bad in the short term, I think we are back in a sellers market for the short term, at least. It will take clear evidence that the epidemic is weakening - or the million tests in the US don’t find very much - to send the markets back upwards.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,919
    eadric said:

    matt said:

    Will Eadric set a record for the most posts by a single person on one PB thread? With extra marks for determined focus. A nation awaits with interest.

    My comments grow in number EXPONENTIALLY
    Byronavirus
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    There's been some epic tortured analogies in PB history but this is the winner.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    You cannot be real.

    Yes it originated in China but a large part of the world have been proactive in addressing it while the idiotic Trump first calls it a hoax, then says there will be a vaccine in a few months, and now says there will be a million tests when the US are incapable of doing more than a few hundred so far.

    The US people, and all of us, deserve someone who cares, is competent, and able to react to events to keep people safe. Trump and his republicans fail on all those counts
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,919
    eadric said:

    Stocky said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Barnesian said:

    @IanB2

    How heavily discounted are those Cunard cruises?

    And do they take (and is it a practical/good idea to take) a toddler?

    Don’t want her falling over the side!

    Club Med are also giving good deals on skiing trips.
    You do not want to go skiing because you do not want to end up in intensive care (or a long queue for intensive care) in a coronavirus ridden hospital, which is the nailed on consequence of a serious skiing accident at least in Italy atm. Same applies to other risk sports.
    That`s a good point. I was planning another trip in April. Suppose France or Austria would be a bit safer.
    Norway and Finland safer
    Caithness even better.
    Slumming it in Aberdeen this week :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    edited March 2020
    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:

    They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how intraconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 750-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days. You can do the maths on that.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Which, in turn, endangers the rest of us. America is an idiot
    Americans seem to believe that paying no taxes and having a gun are sufficient to guarantee a good life.

    It takes an incident like this to demonstrate the value of collective action. Yet there is no collective action in America. Except for voluntary philanthropy, which is no good in a situation like this.

    On a more mundane level, you see this with the state of the roads. The richest country in the world, yet you have to drive hundreds of miles along bumpy potholed roads that would shame some modern day African countries.
  • HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    You just do not get it.

    Trump just blinds you
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Fox News appear to have even stopped covering it, it’s so bad.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I was at a livery hall event last night where I saw two 75 year olds unironically bump elbows on meeting. I was halfway between being amused and being impressed at their pragmatic adaptability to changing circumstances.

    A lovely smile is perfectly fine. Why the need to touch someone at all?
    Update from the front line. Am in Paris for meetings.

    Of the three, one cancelled because they are trying to cut down on interactions with travellers, one cancelled because the markets are crazy, and one withdrew his hand as I put mine (newly sanitised) out to shake it.

    Uber driver most phlegmatic of the lot.
    Phlegm-atic might not be want you want from your Uber driver right now :wink:
    LOL
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046
    edited March 2020
    I completely disagree with the concensus over Trump here. What he can actually *do* as President is imo limited. All he can really do is maintain a positive optimistic face, and he seems to be doing that.

    By contrast, look at Tony Blair, the twat, donning full protective gear and emoting on the scene of Foot and Mouth disease. Those images went around the world and did untold and unnecessary damage to the tourism industry.
  • Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    There's been some epic tortured analogies in PB history but this is the winner.
    Indeed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    You cannot be real.

    Yes it originated in China but a large part of the world have been proactive in addressing it while the idiotic Trump first calls it a hoax, then says there will be a vaccine in a few months, and now says there will be a million tests when the US are incapable of doing more than a few hundred so far.

    The US people, and all of us, deserve someone who cares, is competent, and able to react to events to keep people safe. Trump and his republicans fail on all those counts
    I most certainly am real, the blame for this outbreak lies solely and squarely with the Communist government of China not with Trump and it is they who are to blame and they who must change their behaviour.

    How the USA responds to it is up to the USA and who the US elects to be their president is up to the US people
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    You cannot be real.

    Yes it originated in China but a large part of the world have been proactive in addressing it while the idiotic Trump first calls it a hoax, then says there will be a vaccine in a few months, and now says there will be a million tests when the US are incapable of doing more than a few hundred so far.

    The US people, and all of us, deserve someone who cares, is competent, and able to react to events to keep people safe. Trump and his republicans fail on all those counts
    It’s reminding me of the Gordon Brown ‘it started in America‘ defence.

    Yes, it did. But that didn’t explain why we had fourteen financial institutions collapse to Australia and Canada’s combined total of zero.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    edited March 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The mortality rate from influenza in the United States in 2017/18 was 1 in 733 according to this document. 44,802,629 cases and 61,099 fatalities.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

    That 1 in 733 figure is interesting because so far in 10 countries — Germany, Spain, Singapore, Kuwait, UK, Bahrain, Switzerland, Malaysia, Norway, Canada — there have been 749 cases and no fatalities. I know it's very optimistic to hope that all of those cases result in a full recovery.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    749 cases, not 749 people fully recovered. So far we have 749 test cases, all of whom will hopefully recover but we don't know yet.
    Yes, and the countries have been cherry picked. France has had 4 deaths.
    I don't think it counts as cherry picking. It's simply looking at countries which haven't experienced any fatalities yet.
    That's by definition cherrypicking.

    "I don't think it counts as cherry picking, it's simply looking at all the branches with cherries"
    There's nothing wrong with trying to work out why a lot of countries haven't had any fatalities yet despite a fair number of cases. That's what I was doing.
    There is a problem with it when you include Germany 200 cases no deaths but leave out neighbouring France with 200 cases and 4 deaths. Thats an average accross the two countries of 1%, and count-data around these kind of levels is always going to be blotchy.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    Alistair said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:


    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Electronic touch screen voting machines.

    The. Fucking. Horror.
    Yep. I genuinely believe that the US will record substantially more deaths than Europe, despite a far smaller population. Perhaps 2 to 3 times more.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,067
    Turks slosh around cheap perfumed alcohol all the time to clean hands and freshen up. It is sold everywhere by the half litre. Quite an effective antiviral.

    Having said that, I am sure that they are brewing lots of cases, probably via fleeing Iranians.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:

    They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how intraconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 750-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days. You can do the maths on that.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Which, in turn, endangers the rest of us. America is an idiot
    Americans seem to believe that paying no taxes and having a gun are sufficient to guarantee a good life.

    It takes an incident like this to demonstrate the value of collective action. Yet there is no collective action in America. Except for voluntary philanthropy, which is no good in a situation like this.

    On a more mundane level, you see this with the state of the roads. The richest country in the world, yet you have to drive hundreds of miles along bumpy potholed roads that would shame some modern day African countries.
    Just on that last point first, the roads around where I live in Surrey are appalling. But we seem to be doing okay with regards to the virus. At the moment.

    On the wider point about attitudes in America, it probably won't come to this as the fatality rate isn't that bad, but I could imagine them turning on each other if it got really bad.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:

    They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how intraconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 750-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days. You can do the maths on that.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Which, in turn, endangers the rest of us. America is an idiot
    Americans seem to believe that paying no taxes and having a gun are sufficient to guarantee a good life.

    It takes an incident like this to demonstrate the value of collective action. Yet there is no collective action in America.
    [SNIP]
    There used to be though... just think of the response to two world wars, also the space race.
  • nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How are you. Were you due a medical procedure today
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,067
    It does seem as if the USA had been blindsided for a fair bit of time.

    https://twitter.com/Seattle2019nCov/status/1234914123546103808?s=19
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    The virus could kill you, especially if you are over 80
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    eadric said:

    Animal_pb said:

    "Ponce Pilate était un visionnaire." Brilliant.
    Look at that Turkey stat. 94% wash their hands, and very few Coronavirus cases

    It's like the Day of the Triffids, when it turns out they can be killed with sea water, or whatever.

    It's the washin' of the 'ands wot will save us!
    Maybe there’s an upside to running out of toilet paper?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    You cannot be real.

    Yes it originated in China but a large part of the world have been proactive in addressing it while the idiotic Trump first calls it a hoax, then says there will be a vaccine in a few months, and now says there will be a million tests when the US are incapable of doing more than a few hundred so far.

    The US people, and all of us, deserve someone who cares, is competent, and able to react to events to keep people safe. Trump and his republicans fail on all those counts
    It’s reminding me of the Gordon Brown ‘it started in America‘ defence.

    Yes, it did. But that didn’t explain why we had fourteen financial institutions collapse to Australia and Canada’s combined total of zero.
    You cannot say things like that on PB. Jonathan will be upset.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861

    I completely disagree with the concensus over Trump here. What he can actually *do* as President is imo limited. All he can really do is maintain a positive optimistic face, and he seems to be doing that.

    By contrast, look at Tony Blair, the twat, donning full protective gear and emoting on the scene of Foot and Mouth disease. Those images went around the world and did untold and unnecessary damage to the tourism industry.

    I haven't seen any photo's of Giseppe Conte donning full protective gear but Italy's tourism industry has still nose dived.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IshmaelZ said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    Foxy said:

    It does seem as if the USA had been blindsided for a fair bit of time.

    Absolutely third world.
  • nichomar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.
    Sending you my best wishes
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited March 2020
    nichomar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    ck exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.
    Everyone is shit at knowing what to say in these situations but I wish you all the very best and a recovery and I'm sure everyone on PB is willing you to get better.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620
    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:

    They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how intraconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 750-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days. You can do the maths on that.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Which, in turn, endangers the rest of us. America is an idiot
    Americans seem to believe that paying no taxes and having a gun are sufficient to guarantee a good life.

    It takes an incident like this to demonstrate the value of collective action. Yet there is no collective action in America. Except for voluntary philanthropy, which is no good in a situation like this.

    On a more mundane level, you see this with the state of the roads. The richest country in the world, yet you have to drive hundreds of miles along bumpy potholed roads that would shame some modern day African countries.
    Just on that last point first, the roads around where I live in Surrey are appalling. But we seem to be doing okay with regards to the virus. At the moment.

    On the wider point about attitudes in America, it probably won't come to this as the fatality rate isn't that bad, but I could imagine them turning on each other if it got really bad.
    I would guess that you haven't tried American roads then? It is quite an experience encountering public highways, allegedly metalled, that really require a high ground clearance 4x4. I'm not talking about gravel tracks in hicksville - highly frequented local roads.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    nichomar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.
    Oh shit. Not great. Very best wishes and good luck.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083

    IanB2 said:

    eadric said:

    Chameleon said:

    Just to re-iterate how bad the US situation is:

    They have at the very least 5 community transmission areas (Seattle, NY/Florida, Oregon, CA*2). Given how extremely hard it is to get a test over there it's extremely likely that there will be many more clusters going from 5 to 10 to 20 etc. Given how intraconnected the US is the longer they leave it the more clusters there will be.

    A case missed in mid January in Seattle is estimated to be about 750-1000 cases now, multiply that by 10-25 for 10-25 other missed cases (extremely generous estimate for the US), and add in a doubling rate of 5ish days. You can do the maths on that.

    Super Tuesday looks to be an amazing transmission vector. By the time they realise what they're dealing with they'll be past the point of controlling it.

    Which, in turn, endangers the rest of us. America is an idiot
    Americans seem to believe that paying no taxes and having a gun are sufficient to guarantee a good life.

    It takes an incident like this to demonstrate the value of collective action. Yet there is no collective action in America.
    [SNIP]
    There used to be though... just think of the response to two world wars, also the space race.
    Indeed. America has been changing fast during our lifetimes. There was a time when a Americans had the shortest working hours of any western economy. Nixon came close to introducing a universal basic income during his first term. And it wasn’t until Clinton that the welfare safety net beneath the poorest was finally dismantled.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    Don't be absurd.

    America hasn't even tested 500 people since this began while we've tested nearly 20,000 and are testing hundreds or thousands per day.

    Rest of the world's response to this virus is thinking how to contain it. Trump's response is how to look after the stock exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    The risks originated in China but China acted to contain it. The USA is not acting to contain it.

    It would not surprise me if more Americans than Chinese die from this outbreak before the end which was entirely avoidable.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    TOPPING said:

    nichomar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    ck exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.
    Everyone is shit at knowing what to say in these situations but I wish you all the very best and a recovery and I'm sure everyone on PB is willing you to get better.
    Very much seconded.

    All best wishes @nichomar.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    And so markets are falling like stones once again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,046
    nichomar said:



    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.

    Sounds like you have a good plan there - wishing you a super speedy recovery.

    By the way, have no idea if you are interested in alternative therapies, but my friend who has leukemia basically lives due to cannabis oil. She also supplies it - recently started supplying an 80 year old woman with lung cancer who doctors had no hope for - they are now astonished that her tumours are shrinking. She refuses to tell them. Or stop smoking. :/
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TOPPING said:

    nichomar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    The way he is handling covid 19 he should be thrown out of office now

    He is a real and ever present danger to his people and the Rest of the World
    I don't think he is handling it that badly and let us not forget it was the Chinese government's failure to ban live meat markets and experiments on bats that launched coronavirus on the world, not Trump
    ck exchange.

    Viruses can evolve, it happens, but how we react to it is how we should be measured and Trump has failed awfully.
    The main blame for this virus lies with China and the Chinese government for allowing unsafe meat markets and animal experiments which allowed the virus to fester and emerge.

    Yes, the US could try and increase its testing rate to ours but that is a matter for them, however the risk we face originated from China and that is where the blame lies and the most lessons need to be learnt
    Does it matter where the blame lies? It doesn’t help anybody we can worry about that when it’s over
    Yes it does, when people are killed law enforcement look for the murderer or who is responsible for their manslaughter not which ambulance service provided the weakest response to them
    Well it’s a view! The virus won’t kill me but the impact that it has could do. At the moment I don’t give a shit who caused it but I do give a shit how governments react to it. The UK is doing well at the moment but personally I would can all sport involving large gatherings as should spain. It’s a bit like blame Eve for original sin
    How you doing? In hospital?
    No I have a second tumor on the liver and it will be chemo and radio treatment. The private hospital has recommended I now move on to the state system because our local hospital is a world leader in cancer treatment. The insurance company are pulling strings to accelerate me through the system. They tell me if you have to get cancer they are some of the most curable. Staying calm and looking for alternatives to keep my mind moving.
    Everyone is shit at knowing what to say in these situations but I wish you all the very best and a recovery and I'm sure we are all willing you to get better.
    It’s fine, trying not to be a drama queen, the fact that we are just virtually connected helps. Great support life goes on
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,620
    eadric said:

    Still, it can't be as bad as the coalition years, it seems, given that the fabric of society has already been destroyed according to the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/03/lost-decade-hidden-story-how-austerity-broke-britain

    lol

    One of the few upsides to this ghastly virus is the way it puts everything else in perspective. That article might have "worked" a few weeks ago, now, as we confront a real emergency, which - at its worst - might just break aspects of Britain, it looks like a wankfest of lefty hysteria. Which it is.
    One thing that this government has achieved - in conversation with the regressive* types, apparently (a) EvulTories have put lots of people of the scrap heap (b) there will be no-one to do the all jobs when the immigrants are rounded up and sent home.

    Gently pushing a) and b) together (as it were) looks good for creating some heading exploding moments.

    *I find it hard to think of pseudo tankies as progressing towards anything
This discussion has been closed.