politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The front pages on this historic day
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It is not forecast to drop below 10 C in Cambridge overnight tonight. Here in Devon I have overridden and shut off the CH for a couple of nights and it has nt turned out to be borderline dangerous (yet). Sharks have been jumped when the claim is made that proposing not to burn fossil fuels, in order to reduce the consumption of fossil fuels, is "intellectually lightweight."matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:0 -
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.0 -
You are the one making the claim. It would be interesting to actually have evidence that the vote was solely about economic self-interest.Gallowgate said:@RobD travel to Sunderland and ask workers at Nissan if they are willing to trade their job for “Fishing Rights”.
I don’t think we need polling evidence.0 -
When building new student accommodation in the 1980s, my college had to decide between central heating or large oak doors on the entrance to each staircase so that it was in keeping with the rest of the college. They went with the oak doors.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:0 -
There was a poll pre referendum that had people switching to Remain if they were personally worse off by £50 or more, but it is not at my fingertips.RobD said:
Is there polling evidence to back this up, that people would only vote Brexit if it made their own lives better?Gallowgate said:
Because they think decisions will be made to better their lives.RobD said:
Wasn’t the main motivation to vote Brexit the principle that decisions should be made in the UK and not in Brussels? I don’t recall seeing personal self-interest topping the list of reasons.Gallowgate said:
Yes but that won’t matter if peoples jobs are on the line.Stocky said:Gallowgate said:
Do you think that James from Consett who works on the assembly line at Nissan would trade his job so the 10k who work in Fishing make a bit more profit?Stocky said:
I think that you tend to see things from the perspective of individual self interest.Gallowgate said:
The average leaver on the street in County Durham doesn’t give two hoots about fishing let’s get real.Stocky said:
I think you`re wrong. Whilst it`s true that only a few have a direct interest interest in the industry, it is a totemic issue for leavers, because it`s integral to sovereignty (as leavers see it). It will hurt the gov greatly if they caved in on this. I don`t think they will.Gallowgate said:No one cares about Fishing. Less than 11k people are employed in the industry. For context more than 10k people rely on the Nissan factory in
SunderlandWashington alone.
This is proper Westminster bubble stuff.
This is not what Brexit was about and I still don`t
The answer is no.
I’m not a deluded Remainer, I worked in County Durham in industry with plenty of Leavers. I know how they think.
Not once have I ever heard them celebrate the fact we’ll be fishing more fish.
This isn`t about a worker in fishing making more profit. It`s about whether or not our country has the power to control who can and who can`t fish in our waters.
It’s all well and good the likes of @Byronic bigging up how much “suffering” leavers are willing to go through.
In reality the answer is “none”.
People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.
People believed their lives would be better with more sovereignty. That may be true but it also may be not.
To suggest otherwise is either delusion, dishonesty, or stupidity.0 -
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.0 -
Yeah, it’s pricey but fully worth it. Genuinely innovative cuisine - rather than eating something a semi-competent cook can recreate at home a la Simpson’s.isam said:
We went there this month and it was over £100 with no alcohol! Lumpy ChineseAnabobazina said:
That sounds crap to be honest!NickPalmer said:
Simpsons in the Strand is suitably British if you're in that frame of mind. I've seen some grumpy comments about it but in my experience it's a classic British dining experience (roast beef from the trolley etc.) with pleasant staff, and not ludicrously expensive for Central London (from memory £30 a head will do it unless you go for expensive wine).Stocky said:Who`s going to be in Parliament Square at 11pm?
I (and Mrs Stocky) are coming down by train this morning and making a couple of days out of it.
Is there anywhere else in London to keep an eye on for action e.g. Traf Square, Buck Palace, Downing Street?
Anyone know where Johnson is making his speech at 10 pm? I think he`s in Sunderland this morning.
And finally, and most importantly, where am I to take Mrs Stocky out for a meal this evening near Westminster? Any recommendations?
Celebrate Global Britain at Hakkasan Mayfair instead!
Coach and Horses pub nearby is lovely though*
Rules in Cov Gdn is meant to be the best British place
*Hakkasan was lovely too0 -
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.0 -
Despicable person but the point to grasp is that her game is attention and nothing else. She sells hate and visceral prejudice to softheads and nasties for money. That's her career. For Hopkins, all exposure is great. It's grist to her mill. So the best way to deal with her - for all but the deplorables who like her - is complete and utter CANCEL. No comments, no retweeting, no getting angry, no nothing, not even contemptuous piss-take.isam said:She seems to be the Leave/Right Wing foil for the lefty Remainers who fall for any bit of fake news that backs up their prejudices
Thus practicing what I preach, this is my last ever post on her unless absolutely forced to do another one.0 -
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.0 -
Congratulations Alastair.AlastairMeeks said:
Thank you. Yes, 52, but I’ve always wanted to try to use some different skills and this gives me the opportunity to do so.Casino_Royale said:
In all seriousness, congratulations Alastair. Very well deserved.AlastairMeeks said:
30 April is a convenient date for me - it’s my firm’s year end.OldKingCole said:
I picked 30th April too. That was 17 years ago though. The other big event for us that day was that elder son's first child was born that day. Now he's having driving lessons at a 'cardrome' and looking forward to being on the road properly. He and I were messaging each other about automatic cars last night, as per the discussion where.AlastairMeeks said:Meeksit means Meeksit. I suppose today is as good a day as any to announce that I’m retiring on 30 April.
You must have done well to be retiring at 52 (?) or something like that?!
Clearly you know an expert or two in retirement planning
Best of luck to yourself and your other half, with whatever you decide do next.0 -
Avoiding being "pretty chilly" in temperatures typical of April, vs saving the planet. It's a tricky one, indeed.Foxy said:
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.0 -
No what is both childish and intellectually lightweight is demanding a pretend "divestment" while remaining a customer of these companies by keeping the gas central heating on. Divesting shares while remaining a customer achieves nothing.Nigelb said:
Pretty childish of him, really.HYUFD said:
And his line about staying as a shareholder so they could have 'influence', laughable.
If the students wish the college to divest from oil companies the very first step would be to stop being a customer of oil companies. So yes, demand the central heating is turned off. This is 2020 there are alternatives that exist to gas central heating.
The college could replace its gas central heating with a ground source heat pump, or alternatives like that. That could remove their gas consumption, if they switch their kitchens to electric if they're not already too.
Of course however that will be extremely expensive. But if these students are serious then the next step is for them to raise the money to fund this project if it matters to them. When I was at university I did fundraising activities most Saturdays for a year and we raised a lot of money to go to worthwhile charities. If these students want to fundraise to do this and not give money to other worthwhile charities then they could raise the funds to do this within a couple of years probably. And then the college would be gas-free.
All this would be hard work for the students and would mean money wouldn't go to other worthwhile charities they'd prefer, but if this is what they want they should put their efforts where their placards are. Demanding a pretend divestment to feel they've done something while they keep warm by continuing to consume gas and do nothing practical is not a solution.1 -
I’m sure they are. But so are damp flats in North London or stone houses with very high ceilings in an Italian winter.Foxy said:
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.1 -
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.0 -
Buildings do need some degree of heating (central or otherwise) or you can get damp issues which will cost far more than the heating to resolve.
But it doesn't really need to be above 15 C for that purpose. Anything on top is personal preference.0 -
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.0 -
Isn’t that the “greener” option? The carbon in the oak is captured in a permanent form not released into the atmosphere, no wasteful energy system and the students have to use up calories to stay warm so not becoming fatties.tlg86 said:
When building new student accommodation in the 1980s, my college had to decide between central heating or large oak doors on the entrance to each staircase so that it was in keeping with the rest of the college. They went with the oak doors.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:
0 -
I semi retired when I was 40. I left work and set up my own company with a plan to attempt to do I role I had been wanting to do for sometime and when I wanted to do it, have more personal time and to be able to dedicate time to the LDs. I also did a little training in the early years for some extra income. I wish I could have done this earlier. Both took off. I had full time training roles if I wanted it but I gave that up completely to concentrate on the role I had intended to do and so many opportunities turned up I could have employed lots of people. But I didn't want to do that so I kept to the original plan and worked about 1 week a month I would guess when I wanted to.AlastairMeeks said:
I can absolutely guarantee that neither of those is going to happen.matt said:
I give it 6-12 months before you rock up in a US firm or in a senior in-house role.AlastairMeeks said:
I’d be really interested to hear what you think of it.squareroot2 said:
I retire today, finally at 66.5.. I am going to join the U3A.AlastairMeeks said:
30 April is a convenient date for me - it’s my firm’s year end.OldKingCole said:
I picked 30th April too. That was 17 years ago though. The other big event for us that day was that elder son's first child was born that day. Now he's having driving lessons at a 'cardrome' and looking forward to being on the road properly. He and I were messaging each other about automatic cars last night, as per the discussion where.AlastairMeeks said:Meeksit means Meeksit. I suppose today is as good a day as any to announce that I’m retiring on 30 April.
20 years later I was getting bored and it was tailing off and for the next 5 years it dwindled away and I finally wound it up. Sad not to have an actual retirement day. It sort of just happened over time.
I consider myself fortunate although my wife thinks I need to get out an meet more people. Did enjoy the fact though that I could hold a conference call while in my dressing gown and breaking in a new pair of ski boots.0 -
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.0 -
The trick, of course, is to spend as much time out of the building as possible. Libraries, especially underground libraries were very attractive. So too were pubs...Cyclefree said:
Isn’t that the “greener” option? The carbon in the oak is captured in a permanent form not released into the atmosphere, no wasteful energy system and the students have to use up calories to stay warm so not becoming fatties.tlg86 said:
When building new student accommodation in the 1980s, my college had to decide between central heating or large oak doors on the entrance to each staircase so that it was in keeping with the rest of the college. They went with the oak doors.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:0 -
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.1 -
East Leics is one of the colder parts of the country, being so far from the sea, but even in a well insulated double glazed modern house it got pretty cold when our boiler failed one winter.Cyclefree said:
I’m sure they are. But so are damp flats in North London or stone houses with very high ceilings in an Italian winter.Foxy said:
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.
Perhaps the College could make a step in the right direction by turning down the heating and operating it fewer days in the year, pending a renewable system being installed.
Old buildings are beautiful but not always easy to adapt to modern mores.2 -
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.0 -
Goodbye EU, hello Coronavirus...
0 -
I disagree - at least partially. Of course economics played a big role in the vote - it always does - but IMO identity was very much in the mix too. Caveat, it can be difficult to uncouple them cleanly in many ways.Gallowgate said:I’m sorry but this is romanticized nonsense.
On a fundamental level it all comes down to people believing life would be better outside the EU. Everything else is cotton wool.
And you know what, maybe they’r right?
But to suggest people are willing to suffer in order to protect “fishing rights” which they have no stake in is just fantasy. They might say they would if asked because people generally don’t think things can be worse, but push comes to shove? Not in a million years.
I invite you to consider the following sentiments which (expressed in various ways) were not uncommon amongst Leavers.
"We stood alone in 1940. We can do it again." - or - "We got through the Blitz. I think we can get through this."0 -
Did Byronic get tested then?Foxy said:BBC News - First coronavirus cases confirmed in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-513251920 -
We’re not debating what people said they want.RobD said:
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.0 -
What about it? They won’t be saying that when they’re down the job centre. They’ll be blaming the government or the EU or remainers.kinabalu said:
No I disagree with you, at least partially. Of course economics played a big role in the vote - it always does - but IMO identity was very much in the mix too. Caveat, it can be difficult to uncouple them cleanly in many ways.Gallowgate said:I’m sorry but this is romanticized nonsense.
On a fundamental level it all comes down to people believing life would be better outside the EU. Everything else is cotton wool.
And you know what, maybe they’r right?
But to suggest people are willing to suffer in order to protect “fishing rights” which they have no stake in is just fantasy. They might say they would if asked because people generally don’t think things can be worse, but push comes to shove? Not in a million years.
I invite you to consider the following sentiments which (expressed in various ways) were not uncommon amongst Leavers.
"We stood alone in 1940. We can do it again." - or - "We got through the Blitz. I think we can get through this."0 -
Like I said, why do I bother? You made a claim, I was interested in seeing the evidence behind it.Gallowgate said:
We’re not debating what people said they want.RobD said:
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.0 -
The evidence is speaking to real people in Boris’s new heartlands.RobD said:
Like I said, why do I bother? You made a claim, I was interested in seeing the evidence behind it.Gallowgate said:
We’re not debating what people said they want.RobD said:
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.0 -
Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
Tring jswer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
Like a fair few PB leavers he's a long way from relevent doorsteps.Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.0 -
As you put it, nice avoidance.Gallowgate said:
The evidence is speaking to real people in Boris’s new heartlands.RobD said:
Like I said, why do I bother? You made a claim, I was interested in seeing the evidence behind it.Gallowgate said:
We’re not debating what people said they want.RobD said:
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.Gallowgate said:
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.RobD said:
I don't know why I even bother!Gallowgate said:
“Economic hit” is meaningless.RobD said:
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.Gallowgate said:
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.RobD said:
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".Gallowgate said:@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.0 -
Harsh, Fishing is a worthy poster here......Gallowgate said:No one cares about Fishing.
2 -
There has just been an almighty kerfuffle in the fireplace in my dining room between a spider and a re-emergent queen bee (not sure the species but it is black with a reddish spot on its shoulder).
The spider obviously tried to tangle up and poison the bee, but has now disappeared leaving the bee confused, angry and struggling for life. I have potted it up and put it outside with a drop of honey to die or recover on its own.
I couldn't have asked, didn't ask, for a more brutal Brexit allegory to commemorate this day. The ultimate fate of the bee is and will remain unknown.0 -
The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
0 -
Ask yourself, what would Jolyon do?Pro_Rata said:There has just been an almighty kerfuffle in the fireplace in my dining room between a spider and a re-emergent queen bee (not sure the species but it is black with a reddish spot on its shoulder).
The spider obviously tried to tangle up and poison the bee, but has now disappeared leaving the bee confused, angry and struggling for life. I have potted it up and put it outside with a drop of honey to die or recover on its own.
I couldn't have asked, didn't ask, for a more brutal Brexit allegory to commemorate this day. The ultimate fate of the bee is and will remain unknown.0 -
I think it is very funny that at the very heart of all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...0 -
I think people will start to care, though perhaps only when it will be a great deal harder to mitigate the crisis.Cyclefree said:This - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/the-times-view-on-the-crisis-in-the-judicial-system-court-in-limbo-djdlvbf33 - is serious and important. Of course, no-one will care - or not enough.
When people get exercised by grooming gangs and the like, it would be worth them remembering that without an effective criminal justice system to try such people within a reasonable time frame, there is no chance of there being any justice - even after investigation.
And yet - after a 40% cut to the Justice budget, the Chancellor wants another 5% on top.
The virtual abandonment of any pretence to investigate fraud on individuals - even in cases where they might have lost their life savings - is of the same order.
Because crime effect any of us only occasionally, the extent of the desuetude isn't immediately apparent.0 -
-
While true, that is hardly the point of his response.Cyclefree said:
The shares will likely be held not on an individual basis but through funds etc and the college’s investments will be managed by others in accordance with all sorts of legal and fiduciary requirements. So yes it is not something that can be done by one person at a moment’s notice.DecrepiterJohnL said:
One might also point out that so called blue chip oil companies are a pretty risky investment these days...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/31/change-climate-policy-now-to-avert-oil-market-crisis-warns-thinktank0 -
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?0 -
Steve Baker was interviewed by Justin Webb on the Today programme this morning and I was impressed by Baker's intelligence and thoughtfulness. Then I realised why it was such a good interview: Webb had allowed him to develop his thoughts without the hectoring interruptions he would have had from Nick Robinson looking for a gotcha.2
-
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.rottenborough said:The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1223075876872556550?s=19
0 -
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?0 -
The point of his response was to suggest a meaningful alternative option that would actually change gas consumption, while some Phyrric victory for the protestors getting the college to "divest" in name while in truth they remain customers would change absolutely nothing.Nigelb said:
While true, that is hardly the point of his response.Cyclefree said:
The shares will likely be held not on an individual basis but through funds etc and the college’s investments will be managed by others in accordance with all sorts of legal and fiduciary requirements. So yes it is not something that can be done by one person at a moment’s notice.DecrepiterJohnL said:
One might also point out that so called blue chip oil companies are a pretty risky investment these days...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/31/change-climate-policy-now-to-avert-oil-market-crisis-warns-thinktank
Are the protestors into serious changes, or pretend ones? If they're into serious changes they should demand the central heating is turned off first - if you look at my earlier post I went into detail on how they could achieve that.
Good on the college for calling out nonsense.0 -
We'd have had to pay another 350/(7*24) million if we had left at 1am Brussels time.TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January? 0 -
The Star have truly lost their minds if they think "the end of Dry January" trumps Transfer Deadline Day.2
-
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?0 -
Good. Are we sure the big majority will lead to a softer Brexit? Couldn't just as easily lead to a harder Brexit. And I'm not convinced the Tory party having MP's in former manufacturing towns will do much to focus minds on the realities of a hard Brexit, the key word being they are *former* manufacturing towns or *ex* coalfields.HYUFD said:0 -
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?0 -
The two reported UK cases are clearly Byronic and SeanTMarqueeMark said:
Did Byronic get tested then?Foxy said:BBC News - First coronavirus cases confirmed in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-513251923 -
Ah slightly different point. Now I agree. Having voted for identity reasons they will nevertheless moan to high heaven if there is an economic hit which affects them personally. And they will not blame Brexit because this by extension is to blame themselves. Which is not in the DNA. Let's hope they blame "Boris".Gallowgate said:What about it? They won’t be saying that when they’re down the job centre. They’ll be blaming the government or the EU or remainers.
0 -
Very jealous of Mr Meeks!
I’m planning to retire at around the same age (is it unhealthy to have such intentions at 41?), but that depends on contingencies - two in particular, aged 5 and six months.
On topic, today Britain leaves the EU.
Personally, Brexit has been a depressing and infuriating mess.
It has, in a hundred small ways, estranged me from the country I have called home for twenty years - even as a “friendly” immigrant I simply feel less welcome than I did.
In turn I am just less invested in this country’s future. The pomp and bombast of much civic life - previously a guilty pleasure - now just seems parochial and embarrassing.
I have not been divorced, but I can only assume the emotional process is related.
Brexit - when all is said and done - is a nativism-infused urge to reduce immigration. It has a mistrust of foreigners - or even just the non-English - at its dark heart.
“We” - but I would increasingly say “you” - are already poorer, materially and spiritually. That process started June 2016 and today marks no particular change in trajectory. Steve Baker is right to keep his celebrations low-key.2 -
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?0 -
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?0 -
I think there's a fair chance that this develops into something along the lines of flu (which in itself isn't particularly contagious, either) - we're not going to stop it being out there.Foxy said:
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.rottenborough said:The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1223075876872556550?s=19
In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.0 -
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.0 -
There are lots of things she hasn’t told the truth about. Much like our PM.rottenborough said:
That’s why her supporters don’t think it matters and why one, on Twitter, could - unironically - praise her “command of detail”.0 -
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.Philip_Thompson said:
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.0 -
-
Good point. Most of those MPs will only have encountered benefit wallahs. There'll be just as beholden to the sanctity of the state and naive about the cut a of business and commerce as their Labour predecessors. They probably think hard Brexit can be totally mitigated with a Boris bung to refurbish the local leisure centre. I'm not hopeful.nunu2 said:
Good. Are we sure the big majority will lead to a softer Brexit? Couldn't just as easily lead to a harder Brexit. And I'm not convinced the Tory party having MP's in former manufacturing towns will do much to focus minds on the realities of a hard Brexit, the key word being they are *former* manufacturing towns or *ex* coalfields.HYUFD said:0 -
That looks significant. The only piece of evidence left before we can say this is going to be a very significant outbreak is that of longer transmission chains - I'm not sure what the Chinese are now finding in respect of that. If we get that we will know this is not like the few 1000s of cases for SARS and MERS. On the plus side, the fact all the German cases have been mild gives a bit of qualitative cause for optimism.Foxy said:
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.rottenborough said:The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1223075876872556550?s=190 -
I suspect that there are many mild self limiting infections. The German cases documented in the tweet were. However the numbers seriously ill in China are worrying.Nigelb said:
I think there's a fair chance that this develops into something along the lines of flu (which in itself isn't particularly contagious, either) - we're not going to stop it being out there.Foxy said:
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.rottenborough said:The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1223075876872556550?s=19
In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.
I suspect that viral load makes a difference to severity, so that a casual contact like in Germany is a low dose infection, compared to someone living in close proximity to a contact getting a much higher viral load.0 -
There is absolutely no disruption at all because other than the formality of leaving, nothing else changes. Still paying into the EU budget, still following EU laws and rules. The only thing that changes is that we have no say.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
(Unless something else is agreed, of course.)0 -
I have not looked in detail, but I frankly doubt this is correct from Rob Marrisrottenborough said:
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.0 -
Sounds like they were staying in York, rather than Newcastle.Gallowgate said:0 -
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄TOPPING said:
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.Philip_Thompson said:
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.0 -
Not true.YBarddCwsc said:
I have not looked in detail, but I frankly doubt this is correct from Rob Marrisrottenborough said:
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.
The work product belongs Mr Marris.
It is something that has often been cited when MPs defect/leave parties.0 -
To be fair, I suspect he meant the MP for Wolverhampton South West.YBarddCwsc said:
I have not looked in detail, but I frankly doubt this is correct from Rob Marrisrottenborough said:
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.0 -
1/1/2021 is a Bank Holiday. So yes that Thursday is the start of the long weekend.Cyclefree said:
There is absolutely no disruption at all because other than the formality of leaving, nothing else changes. Still paying into the EU budget, still following EU laws and rules. The only thing that changes is that we have no say.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
(Unless something else is agreed, of course.)0 -
I was in Amsterdam from Saturday - Tuesday, it's a lovely city but the people have no respect or manners.0
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It's on their terms and is according to their treaty.Philip_Thompson said:
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄TOPPING said:
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.Philip_Thompson said:
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
But as I said, I wouldn't let it worry you as you count down to 11pm this evening.0 -
Seems sensible to leave at midnight of the timezone of the organization, or am I being silly?TOPPING said:
It's on their terms according to their treaty.Philip_Thompson said:
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄TOPPING said:
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.Philip_Thompson said:
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.0 -
Which we are leaving and happy to leave. Struggling to comprehend what your point is? Us being signatures to that treaty was a humiliation is that your point? If so I assume you're happy we're leaving?TOPPING said:
It's on their terms according to their treaty.Philip_Thompson said:
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄TOPPING said:
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.Philip_Thompson said:
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.0 -
Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.0
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Curiously, the coming year should be the most politically intense and demanding of the entire Brexit saga. Hitherto there's been a lot of fuzziness to hide behind: flatulent rhetoric, blame gaming and bizarre conspiracy theories about Remoaner plots. That all dies at 11.00 pm this evening. The purity will be quite thrilling.Cyclefree said:
There is absolutely no disruption at all because other than the formality of leaving, nothing else changes. Still paying into the EU budget, still following EU laws and rules. The only thing that changes is that we have no say.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
(Unless something else is agreed, of course.)0 -
Depends how we all handle the debates. As my record shows, I've no problem in working with centrists, and I know lots of left-wingers who are similar - there is scope in a centre-left party for a sensible debate on what Britain needs without hysteria. I agree that we don't need finger-pointing loudmouths on any wing of the party.squareroot2 said:
It wont be good for unity if the Corbynites like you are still in the party. The Labour Party needs to move towards the centre, and the Corbynites still within will leave the party well and truly split.0 -
That's fine I'm not remotely worried!TOPPING said:
It's on their terms and is according to their treaty.Philip_Thompson said:
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄TOPPING said:
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.Philip_Thompson said:
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?TOPPING said:
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.Philip_Thompson said:
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.TOPPING said:
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?TOPPING said:
LOL yeah sure that's it.Philip_Thompson said:
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.TOPPING said:I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
But as I said, I wouldn't let it worry you as you count down to 11pm this evening.
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!0 -
Didn't get a chance to say it earlier, but good luck with your retirement. Don't have too much funAlastairMeeks said:Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
0 -
Is Leibniz's Law repealed at 11 pm, then?IanB2 said:
The two reported UK cases are clearly Byronic and SeanTMarqueeMark said:
Did Byronic get tested then?Foxy said:BBC News - First coronavirus cases confirmed in UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-513251920 -
Some fairly obvious predictions.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/31/trump-will-put-us-interests-first-in-trade-talks-says-kim-darroch-ambassador
Darroch, who said that warnings on the US’s trade demands had been made to No 10 during his tenure in Washington DC, also said it was “impossible” for a deal to get through Congress by the end of 2020 and that it appeared to be “a narrow and rocky path to get to where they [the UK government] want to be”.
He said: “I know what the US will be pitching for when they negotiate a free-trade deal with us. They will pitch for massively greater access for agricultural products. People talk about chlorinated chicken – it is a lot more than that. Farmers in America vote for Trump, pretty much all of them vote for Trump …
“They also want us to pay the same for American pharmaceuticals as they pay in their own market. Do they want us to pay more for their pharmaceuticals? Do the pharmaceutical companies want to use this leverage? Of course they do.”...0 -
Isn't he also angling to be made Trade Secretary? Perhaps he's sniffed that the ERG has served Boris's purpose and that the great man himself will soon be going for a new look.AlastairMeeks said:Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
0 -
Nicely summarized. The less good side of our collective character has won out on this one. And rather than being Leavers v Remainers at national level, which the Referendum technically was, I more view it as a contest inside each and every one of us between these two sides (Remain and Leave) which we all have to varying degrees. Everyone - except perhaps a handful in high security establishments - is at least slightlly Remainy. And we all, even the most Remainy of us, struggle to contain and control that little bit of Leave that lurks within. But anyway, over now. Until the tide changes.Gardenwalker said:Very jealous of Mr Meeks!
I’m planning to retire at around the same age (is it unhealthy to have such intentions at 41?), but that depends on contingencies - two in particular, aged 5 and six months.
On topic, today Britain leaves the EU.
Personally, Brexit has been a depressing and infuriating mess.
It has, in a hundred small ways, estranged me from the country I have called home for twenty years - even as a “friendly” immigrant I simply feel less welcome than I did.
In turn I am just less invested in this country’s future. The pomp and bombast of much civic life - previously a guilty pleasure - now just seems parochial and embarrassing.
I have not been divorced, but I can only assume the emotional process is related.
Brexit - when all is said and done - is a nativism-infused urge to reduce immigration. It has a mistrust of foreigners - or even just the non-English - at its dark heart.
“We” - but I would increasingly say “you” - are already poorer, materially and spiritually. That process started June 2016 and today marks no particular change in trajectory. Steve Baker is right to keep his celebrations low-key.0 -
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.Philip_Thompson said:That's fine I'm not remotely worried!
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.0 -
A good example of how the country has changed. The Tories held it in 1997 with a majority similar to that held by Baker now.AlastairMeeks said:Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
0 -
Of course it got cold, stone vs not stone and double vs single glazing are second order effects on what happens to to the fossil-fuel-generated heat in the building. They are not a free lunch.Foxy said:
East Leics is one of the colder parts of the country, being so far from the sea, but even in a well insulated double glazed modern house it got pretty cold when our boiler failed one winter.Cyclefree said:
I’m sure they are. But so are damp flats in North London or stone houses with very high ceilings in an Italian winter.Foxy said:
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.Cyclefree said:
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.matt said:
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.Nigelb said:
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.
Perhaps the College could make a step in the right direction by turning down the heating and operating it fewer days in the year, pending a renewable system being installed.
Old buildings are beautiful but not always easy to adapt to modern mores.0 -
You may well be right - but it's all guesswork at the moment, isn't it ?Foxy said:
I suspect that there are many mild self limiting infections. The German cases documented in the tweet were. However the numbers seriously ill in China are worrying.Nigelb said:
I think there's a fair chance that this develops into something along the lines of flu (which in itself isn't particularly contagious, either) - we're not going to stop it being out there.Foxy said:
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.rottenborough said:The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1223075876872556550?s=19
In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.
I suspect that viral load makes a difference to severity, so that a casual contact like in Germany is a low dose infection, compared to someone living in close proximity to a contact getting a much higher viral load.
Japan 'surprised' by positive tests of symptom free individuals:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ202001310035.html
Health ministry officials are expanding the scope of testing for the new coronavirus after being surprised by two positive tests from individuals who showed no obvious symptoms.
The two without symptoms were aboard the first government-chartered flight from Wuhan that landed at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport on Jan. 29.
But tests the following day showed they carried the coronavirus. It is unclear if the individuals are at a stage before symptoms actually appear or if symptoms will not surface. However, since they have the virus, they can transmit it to others if they are not quarantined.
Until now, the standards used to suspect an individual of having the coronavirus included obvious symptoms such as a fever of 37.5 degrees or higher and coughing. Individuals who visited Wuhan or came into contact with those who did and who later developed a fever or respiratory problems were also considered possible suspect cases.
A health ministry official said on Jan. 30 that the ministry never anticipated that individuals without symptoms would test positive for the coronavirus...0 -
You don't think highly enough of yourself!TOPPING said:
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.Philip_Thompson said:That's fine I'm not remotely worried!
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.0 -
Consider the latest economic data from Europe.
Almost no growth at all, France and Italy shrinking. The ECB with the easing taps full on and insisting things are getting better. Negative bond yields across a slew of markets.
What's the recipe for recovery? Ursula Von Der Leyen's unscrutinised and unvoted for green deal. A green deal that promises to further penalise the great manufacturing bases of Europe in Germany, France and Italy.
Even the most devoted euro enthusiast would surely concede its not an attractive picture.
0 -
We do engage regularly, which I enjoy. As such I know when you are dissembling and dissembling you were when you tried to deflect on the substance of my post, small point as it was, that even leaving the EU we are doing it on their terms.Philip_Thompson said:
You don't think highly enough of yourself!TOPPING said:
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.Philip_Thompson said:That's fine I'm not remotely worried!
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.0 -
Obviously my own travels inspired you to venture more?AlastairMeeks said:
Not from PB, no. Though I shall be doing the usual spate of travelling etc so I may be around less for a while.ThomasNashe said:
Not from PB, I hope?AlastairMeeks said:Meeksit means Meeksit. I suppose today is as good a day as any to announce that I’m retiring on 30 April.
0 -
We are leaving on their terms somewhat because we want to leave with an agreement. You know full well that I was prepared to leave without a deal but always wanted one and remained stubbornly confident that we would get an amended deal even when all concerned said that was impossible.TOPPING said:
We do engage regularly, which I enjoy. As such I know when you are dissembling and dissembling you were when you tried to deflect on the substance of my post, small point as it was, that even leaving the EU we are doing it on their terms.Philip_Thompson said:
You don't think highly enough of yourself!TOPPING said:
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.Philip_Thompson said:That's fine I'm not remotely worried!
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.
The key to getting a deal is of course to compromise where you are able to and fight over issues that matter. This timing is not an issue that matters - it is a date and time that suits both parties so why fight over this issue?
I'm not interested in disagreeing for disagreements sake.0 -
On a matter of pure pedantry they must have anticipated that was possible or they wouldn't have tested these individuals.Nigelb said:You may well be right - but it's all guesswork at the moment, isn't it ?
Japan 'surprised' by positive tests of symptom free individuals:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ202001310035.html
Health ministry officials are expanding the scope of testing for the new coronavirus after being surprised by two positive tests from individuals who showed no obvious symptoms.
The two without symptoms were aboard the first government-chartered flight from Wuhan that landed at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport on Jan. 29.
But tests the following day showed they carried the coronavirus. It is unclear if the individuals are at a stage before symptoms actually appear or if symptoms will not surface. However, since they have the virus, they can transmit it to others if they are not quarantined.
Until now, the standards used to suspect an individual of having the coronavirus included obvious symptoms such as a fever of 37.5 degrees or higher and coughing. Individuals who visited Wuhan or came into contact with those who did and who later developed a fever or respiratory problems were also considered possible suspect cases.
A health ministry official said on Jan. 30 that the ministry never anticipated that individuals without symptoms would test positive for the coronavirus...
And its not original for carriers not to show symptoms.
To quote Sheldon Cooper: If influenza was only contagious after symptoms appeared, it would have died out thousands of years ago. Somewhere between tool using and cave painting, homo habilis would have figured out to kill the guy with the runny nose.0 -
The point is, we will need a deal with the EU. Not to have one will be very bad for the UK, and less bad, but still bad for the EU, although far less on a per-country basis.Philip_Thompson said:
We are leaving on their terms somewhat because we want to leave with an agreement. You know full well that I was prepared to leave without a deal but always wanted one and remained stubbornly confident that we would get an amended deal even when all concerned said that was impossible.TOPPING said:
We do engage regularly, which I enjoy. As such I know when you are dissembling and dissembling you were when you tried to deflect on the substance of my post, small point as it was, that even leaving the EU we are doing it on their terms.Philip_Thompson said:
You don't think highly enough of yourself!TOPPING said:
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.Philip_Thompson said:That's fine I'm not remotely worried!
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.
The key to getting a deal is of course to compromise where you are able to and fight over issues that matter. This timing is not an issue that matters - it is a date and time that suits both parties so why fight over this issue?
I'm not interested in disagreeing for disagreements sake.
We can't just pretend that the bloc into which we send nearly half our exports doesn't exist and hence we can just have a "no deal" with them. We will have a deal and, sadly, it will be almost wholly on their terms. My small point about the fanfare of leaving at, er, 11pm our time, is that such is going to be the tenor of these negotiations. We will largely be takers not makers.0
