My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
It is not forecast to drop below 10 C in Cambridge overnight tonight. Here in Devon I have overridden and shut off the CH for a couple of nights and it has nt turned out to be borderline dangerous (yet). Sharks have been jumped when the claim is made that proposing not to burn fossil fuels, in order to reduce the consumption of fossil fuels, is "intellectually lightweight."
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
When building new student accommodation in the 1980s, my college had to decide between central heating or large oak doors on the entrance to each staircase so that it was in keeping with the rest of the college. They went with the oak doors.
No one cares about Fishing. Less than 11k people are employed in the industry. For context more than 10k people rely on the Nissan factory in Sunderland Washington alone.
I think you`re wrong. Whilst it`s true that only a few have a direct interest interest in the industry, it is a totemic issue for leavers, because it`s integral to sovereignty (as leavers see it). It will hurt the gov greatly if they caved in on this. I don`t think they will.
The average leaver on the street in County Durham doesn’t give two hoots about fishing let’s get real.
This is proper Westminster bubble stuff.
I think that you tend to see things from the perspective of individual self interest.
This is not what Brexit was about and I still don`t
Do you think that James from Consett who works on the assembly line at Nissan would trade his job so the 10k who work in Fishing make a bit more profit?
The answer is no.
I’m not a deluded Remainer, I worked in County Durham in industry with plenty of Leavers. I know how they think.
Not once have I ever heard them celebrate the fact we’ll be fishing more fish.
This isn`t about a worker in fishing making more profit. It`s about whether or not our country has the power to control who can and who can`t fish in our waters.
Yes but that won’t matter if peoples jobs are on the line.
It’s all well and good the likes of @Byronic bigging up how much “suffering” leavers are willing to go through.
In reality the answer is “none”.
People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.
People believed their lives would be better with more sovereignty. That may be true but it also may be not.
Wasn’t the main motivation to vote Brexit the principle that decisions should be made in the UK and not in Brussels? I don’t recall seeing personal self-interest topping the list of reasons.
Because they think decisions will be made to better their lives.
To suggest otherwise is either delusion, dishonesty, or stupidity.
Is there polling evidence to back this up, that people would only vote Brexit if it made their own lives better?
There was a poll pre referendum that had people switching to Remain if they were personally worse off by £50 or more, but it is not at my fingertips.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
I (and Mrs Stocky) are coming down by train this morning and making a couple of days out of it.
Is there anywhere else in London to keep an eye on for action e.g. Traf Square, Buck Palace, Downing Street?
Anyone know where Johnson is making his speech at 10 pm? I think he`s in Sunderland this morning.
And finally, and most importantly, where am I to take Mrs Stocky out for a meal this evening near Westminster? Any recommendations?
Simpsons in the Strand is suitably British if you're in that frame of mind. I've seen some grumpy comments about it but in my experience it's a classic British dining experience (roast beef from the trolley etc.) with pleasant staff, and not ludicrously expensive for Central London (from memory £30 a head will do it unless you go for expensive wine).
That sounds crap to be honest!
Celebrate Global Britain at Hakkasan Mayfair instead!
We went there this month and it was over £100 with no alcohol! Lumpy Chinese
Coach and Horses pub nearby is lovely though*
Rules in Cov Gdn is meant to be the best British place
*Hakkasan was lovely too
Yeah, it’s pricey but fully worth it. Genuinely innovative cuisine - rather than eating something a semi-competent cook can recreate at home a la Simpson’s.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
She seems to be the Leave/Right Wing foil for the lefty Remainers who fall for any bit of fake news that backs up their prejudices
Despicable person but the point to grasp is that her game is attention and nothing else. She sells hate and visceral prejudice to softheads and nasties for money. That's her career. For Hopkins, all exposure is great. It's grist to her mill. So the best way to deal with her - for all but the deplorables who like her - is complete and utter CANCEL. No comments, no retweeting, no getting angry, no nothing, not even contemptuous piss-take.
Thus practicing what I preach, this is my last ever post on her unless absolutely forced to do another one.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Meeksit means Meeksit. I suppose today is as good a day as any to announce that I’m retiring on 30 April.
I picked 30th April too. That was 17 years ago though. The other big event for us that day was that elder son's first child was born that day. Now he's having driving lessons at a 'cardrome' and looking forward to being on the road properly. He and I were messaging each other about automatic cars last night, as per the discussion where.
30 April is a convenient date for me - it’s my firm’s year end.
In all seriousness, congratulations Alastair. Very well deserved.
You must have done well to be retiring at 52 (?) or something like that?!
Thank you. Yes, 52, but I’ve always wanted to try to use some different skills and this gives me the opportunity to do so.
Congratulations Alastair.
Clearly you know an expert or two in retirement planning
Best of luck to yourself and your other half, with whatever you decide do next.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
Avoiding being "pretty chilly" in temperatures typical of April, vs saving the planet. It's a tricky one, indeed.
Pretty childish of him, really. And his line about staying as a shareholder so they could have 'influence', laughable.
No what is both childish and intellectually lightweight is demanding a pretend "divestment" while remaining a customer of these companies by keeping the gas central heating on. Divesting shares while remaining a customer achieves nothing.
If the students wish the college to divest from oil companies the very first step would be to stop being a customer of oil companies. So yes, demand the central heating is turned off. This is 2020 there are alternatives that exist to gas central heating.
The college could replace its gas central heating with a ground source heat pump, or alternatives like that. That could remove their gas consumption, if they switch their kitchens to electric if they're not already too.
Of course however that will be extremely expensive. But if these students are serious then the next step is for them to raise the money to fund this project if it matters to them. When I was at university I did fundraising activities most Saturdays for a year and we raised a lot of money to go to worthwhile charities. If these students want to fundraise to do this and not give money to other worthwhile charities then they could raise the funds to do this within a couple of years probably. And then the college would be gas-free.
All this would be hard work for the students and would mean money wouldn't go to other worthwhile charities they'd prefer, but if this is what they want they should put their efforts where their placards are. Demanding a pretend divestment to feel they've done something while they keep warm by continuing to consume gas and do nothing practical is not a solution.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
I’m sure they are. But so are damp flats in North London or stone houses with very high ceilings in an Italian winter.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
Buildings do need some degree of heating (central or otherwise) or you can get damp issues which will cost far more than the heating to resolve. But it doesn't really need to be above 15 C for that purpose. Anything on top is personal preference.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
When building new student accommodation in the 1980s, my college had to decide between central heating or large oak doors on the entrance to each staircase so that it was in keeping with the rest of the college. They went with the oak doors.
Isn’t that the “greener” option? The carbon in the oak is captured in a permanent form not released into the atmosphere, no wasteful energy system and the students have to use up calories to stay warm so not becoming fatties.
Meeksit means Meeksit. I suppose today is as good a day as any to announce that I’m retiring on 30 April.
I picked 30th April too. That was 17 years ago though. The other big event for us that day was that elder son's first child was born that day. Now he's having driving lessons at a 'cardrome' and looking forward to being on the road properly. He and I were messaging each other about automatic cars last night, as per the discussion where.
30 April is a convenient date for me - it’s my firm’s year end.
I retire today, finally at 66.5.. I am going to join the U3A.
I’d be really interested to hear what you think of it.
I give it 6-12 months before you rock up in a US firm or in a senior in-house role.
I can absolutely guarantee that neither of those is going to happen.
I semi retired when I was 40. I left work and set up my own company with a plan to attempt to do I role I had been wanting to do for sometime and when I wanted to do it, have more personal time and to be able to dedicate time to the LDs. I also did a little training in the early years for some extra income. I wish I could have done this earlier. Both took off. I had full time training roles if I wanted it but I gave that up completely to concentrate on the role I had intended to do and so many opportunities turned up I could have employed lots of people. But I didn't want to do that so I kept to the original plan and worked about 1 week a month I would guess when I wanted to.
20 years later I was getting bored and it was tailing off and for the next 5 years it dwindled away and I finally wound it up. Sad not to have an actual retirement day. It sort of just happened over time.
I consider myself fortunate although my wife thinks I need to get out an meet more people. Did enjoy the fact though that I could hold a conference call while in my dressing gown and breaking in a new pair of ski boots.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
When building new student accommodation in the 1980s, my college had to decide between central heating or large oak doors on the entrance to each staircase so that it was in keeping with the rest of the college. They went with the oak doors.
Isn’t that the “greener” option? The carbon in the oak is captured in a permanent form not released into the atmosphere, no wasteful energy system and the students have to use up calories to stay warm so not becoming fatties.
The trick, of course, is to spend as much time out of the building as possible. Libraries, especially underground libraries were very attractive. So too were pubs...
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
I’m sure they are. But so are damp flats in North London or stone houses with very high ceilings in an Italian winter.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.
East Leics is one of the colder parts of the country, being so far from the sea, but even in a well insulated double glazed modern house it got pretty cold when our boiler failed one winter.
Perhaps the College could make a step in the right direction by turning down the heating and operating it fewer days in the year, pending a renewable system being installed.
Old buildings are beautiful but not always easy to adapt to modern mores.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.
On a fundamental level it all comes down to people believing life would be better outside the EU. Everything else is cotton wool.
And you know what, maybe they’r right?
But to suggest people are willing to suffer in order to protect “fishing rights” which they have no stake in is just fantasy. They might say they would if asked because people generally don’t think things can be worse, but push comes to shove? Not in a million years.
I disagree - at least partially. Of course economics played a big role in the vote - it always does - but IMO identity was very much in the mix too. Caveat, it can be difficult to uncouple them cleanly in many ways.
I invite you to consider the following sentiments which (expressed in various ways) were not uncommon amongst Leavers.
"We stood alone in 1940. We can do it again." - or - "We got through the Blitz. I think we can get through this."
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.
We’re not debating what people said they want.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.
On a fundamental level it all comes down to people believing life would be better outside the EU. Everything else is cotton wool.
And you know what, maybe they’r right?
But to suggest people are willing to suffer in order to protect “fishing rights” which they have no stake in is just fantasy. They might say they would if asked because people generally don’t think things can be worse, but push comes to shove? Not in a million years.
No I disagree with you, at least partially. Of course economics played a big role in the vote - it always does - but IMO identity was very much in the mix too. Caveat, it can be difficult to uncouple them cleanly in many ways.
I invite you to consider the following sentiments which (expressed in various ways) were not uncommon amongst Leavers.
"We stood alone in 1940. We can do it again." - or - "We got through the Blitz. I think we can get through this."
What about it? They won’t be saying that when they’re down the job centre. They’ll be blaming the government or the EU or remainers.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.
We’re not debating what people said they want.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.
Like I said, why do I bother? You made a claim, I was interested in seeing the evidence behind it.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.
We’re not debating what people said they want.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.
Like I said, why do I bother? You made a claim, I was interested in seeing the evidence behind it.
The evidence is speaking to real people in Boris’s new heartlands.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
Tring jswer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
Like a fair few PB leavers he's a long way from relevent doorsteps.
@RobD this is not even about Brexit anymore. Brexit is happening in 12 hours.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
I was debating the claim you made that "People voted Brexit because they thought it would make their lives better. To pretend otherwise is missing the point.".
Nice avoidance. We all know the answer.
I'm sorry, I'm not avoiding anything. I simply was asking if there was evidence to back up that claim. I've seen polling where people would say it would be worth the economic hit if it meant the decisions were made in London and not Brussels. I assumed you had contrasting evidence.
“Economic hit” is meaningless. GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
I don't know why I even bother!
Good luck selling “never mind your job losses, look at those fishing boats. They’re British they are” on the doorsteps.
I was attempting to debate the claim you made regarding people's motivations behind their vote, hoping that you'd actually have some evidence to back up your claim that they only voted Leave because it would make their lives better. The polling I have seen has sovereignty at the top of that list, not personal self-interest.
We’re not debating what people said they want.
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.
Like I said, why do I bother? You made a claim, I was interested in seeing the evidence behind it.
The evidence is speaking to real people in Boris’s new heartlands.
There has just been an almighty kerfuffle in the fireplace in my dining room between a spider and a re-emergent queen bee (not sure the species but it is black with a reddish spot on its shoulder).
The spider obviously tried to tangle up and poison the bee, but has now disappeared leaving the bee confused, angry and struggling for life. I have potted it up and put it outside with a drop of honey to die or recover on its own.
I couldn't have asked, didn't ask, for a more brutal Brexit allegory to commemorate this day. The ultimate fate of the bee is and will remain unknown.
There has just been an almighty kerfuffle in the fireplace in my dining room between a spider and a re-emergent queen bee (not sure the species but it is black with a reddish spot on its shoulder).
The spider obviously tried to tangle up and poison the bee, but has now disappeared leaving the bee confused, angry and struggling for life. I have potted it up and put it outside with a drop of honey to die or recover on its own.
I couldn't have asked, didn't ask, for a more brutal Brexit allegory to commemorate this day. The ultimate fate of the bee is and will remain unknown.
I think it is very funny that at the very heart of all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
When people get exercised by grooming gangs and the like, it would be worth them remembering that without an effective criminal justice system to try such people within a reasonable time frame, there is no chance of there being any justice - even after investigation.
And yet - after a 40% cut to the Justice budget, the Chancellor wants another 5% on top.
I think people will start to care, though perhaps only when it will be a great deal harder to mitigate the crisis. The virtual abandonment of any pretence to investigate fraud on individuals - even in cases where they might have lost their life savings - is of the same order. Because crime effect any of us only occasionally, the extent of the desuetude isn't immediately apparent.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
It is a good line but is it true? How hard is it to sell a few shares? It is not as if he has to dismantle an oil rig.
The shares will likely be held not on an individual basis but through funds etc and the college’s investments will be managed by others in accordance with all sorts of legal and fiduciary requirements. So yes it is not something that can be done by one person at a moment’s notice.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
Steve Baker was interviewed by Justin Webb on the Today programme this morning and I was impressed by Baker's intelligence and thoughtfulness. Then I realised why it was such a good interview: Webb had allowed him to develop his thoughts without the hectoring interruptions he would have had from Nick Robinson looking for a gotcha.
The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
It is a good line but is it true? How hard is it to sell a few shares? It is not as if he has to dismantle an oil rig.
The shares will likely be held not on an individual basis but through funds etc and the college’s investments will be managed by others in accordance with all sorts of legal and fiduciary requirements. So yes it is not something that can be done by one person at a moment’s notice.
The point of his response was to suggest a meaningful alternative option that would actually change gas consumption, while some Phyrric victory for the protestors getting the college to "divest" in name while in truth they remain customers would change absolutely nothing.
Are the protestors into serious changes, or pretend ones? If they're into serious changes they should demand the central heating is turned off first - if you look at my earlier post I went into detail on how they could achieve that.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
We'd have had to pay another 350/(7*24) million if we had left at 1am Brussels time.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Good. Are we sure the big majority will lead to a softer Brexit? Couldn't just as easily lead to a harder Brexit. And I'm not convinced the Tory party having MP's in former manufacturing towns will do much to focus minds on the realities of a hard Brexit, the key word being they are *former* manufacturing towns or *ex* coalfields.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
What about it? They won’t be saying that when they’re down the job centre. They’ll be blaming the government or the EU or remainers.
Ah slightly different point. Now I agree. Having voted for identity reasons they will nevertheless moan to high heaven if there is an economic hit which affects them personally. And they will not blame Brexit because this by extension is to blame themselves. Which is not in the DNA. Let's hope they blame "Boris".
I’m planning to retire at around the same age (is it unhealthy to have such intentions at 41?), but that depends on contingencies - two in particular, aged 5 and six months.
On topic, today Britain leaves the EU. Personally, Brexit has been a depressing and infuriating mess.
It has, in a hundred small ways, estranged me from the country I have called home for twenty years - even as a “friendly” immigrant I simply feel less welcome than I did.
In turn I am just less invested in this country’s future. The pomp and bombast of much civic life - previously a guilty pleasure - now just seems parochial and embarrassing.
I have not been divorced, but I can only assume the emotional process is related.
Brexit - when all is said and done - is a nativism-infused urge to reduce immigration. It has a mistrust of foreigners - or even just the non-English - at its dark heart.
“We” - but I would increasingly say “you” - are already poorer, materially and spiritually. That process started June 2016 and today marks no particular change in trajectory. Steve Baker is right to keep his celebrations low-key.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
I think there's a fair chance that this develops into something along the lines of flu (which in itself isn't particularly contagious, either) - we're not going to stop it being out there. In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.
Good. Are we sure the big majority will lead to a softer Brexit? Couldn't just as easily lead to a harder Brexit. And I'm not convinced the Tory party having MP's in former manufacturing towns will do much to focus minds on the realities of a hard Brexit, the key word being they are *former* manufacturing towns or *ex* coalfields.
Good point. Most of those MPs will only have encountered benefit wallahs. There'll be just as beholden to the sanctity of the state and naive about the cut a of business and commerce as their Labour predecessors. They probably think hard Brexit can be totally mitigated with a Boris bung to refurbish the local leisure centre. I'm not hopeful.
The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
That looks significant. The only piece of evidence left before we can say this is going to be a very significant outbreak is that of longer transmission chains - I'm not sure what the Chinese are now finding in respect of that. If we get that we will know this is not like the few 1000s of cases for SARS and MERS. On the plus side, the fact all the German cases have been mild gives a bit of qualitative cause for optimism.
The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
I think there's a fair chance that this develops into something along the lines of flu (which in itself isn't particularly contagious, either) - we're not going to stop it being out there. In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.
I suspect that there are many mild self limiting infections. The German cases documented in the tweet were. However the numbers seriously ill in China are worrying.
I suspect that viral load makes a difference to severity, so that a casual contact like in Germany is a low dose infection, compared to someone living in close proximity to a contact getting a much higher viral load.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
There is absolutely no disruption at all because other than the formality of leaving, nothing else changes. Still paying into the EU budget, still following EU laws and rules. The only thing that changes is that we have no say.
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
I have not looked in detail, but I frankly doubt this is correct from Rob Marris
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄
I have not looked in detail, but I frankly doubt this is correct from Rob Marris
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.
Not true.
The work product belongs Mr Marris.
It is something that has often been cited when MPs defect/leave parties.
I have not looked in detail, but I frankly doubt this is correct from Rob Marris
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.
To be fair, I suspect he meant the MP for Wolverhampton South West.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
There is absolutely no disruption at all because other than the formality of leaving, nothing else changes. Still paying into the EU budget, still following EU laws and rules. The only thing that changes is that we have no say.
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
(Unless something else is agreed, of course.)
1/1/2021 is a Bank Holiday. So yes that Thursday is the start of the long weekend.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄
It's on their terms and is according to their treaty.
But as I said, I wouldn't let it worry you as you count down to 11pm this evening.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄
It's on their terms according to their treaty.
Seems sensible to leave at midnight of the timezone of the organization, or am I being silly?
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄
It's on their terms according to their treaty.
Which we are leaving and happy to leave. Struggling to comprehend what your point is? Us being signatures to that treaty was a humiliation is that your point? If so I assume you're happy we're leaving?
Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
There is absolutely no disruption at all because other than the formality of leaving, nothing else changes. Still paying into the EU budget, still following EU laws and rules. The only thing that changes is that we have no say.
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
(Unless something else is agreed, of course.)
Curiously, the coming year should be the most politically intense and demanding of the entire Brexit saga. Hitherto there's been a lot of fuzziness to hide behind: flatulent rhetoric, blame gaming and bizarre conspiracy theories about Remoaner plots. That all dies at 11.00 pm this evening. The purity will be quite thrilling.
It wont be good for unity if the Corbynites like you are still in the party. The Labour Party needs to move towards the centre, and the Corbynites still within will leave the party well and truly split.
Depends how we all handle the debates. As my record shows, I've no problem in working with centrists, and I know lots of left-wingers who are similar - there is scope in a centre-left party for a sensible debate on what Britain needs without hysteria. I agree that we don't need finger-pointing loudmouths on any wing of the party.
I think it is very funny that amidst all the celebration and parties there remains a huge indication of the likely balance of power in our relationship going forward.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
Actually it suits both parties to leave at 11pm. By leaving at 11pm we are leaving today unequivocally, 31 January.
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
LOL yeah sure that's it.
Indeed. I've not seen a single Brexiteer demand we remain in the EU for an hour longer than the EU wants us to remain. Why would they?
Yep that'll be it. Why not midnight on Jan 30th?
Because that would have been a Thursday night. Transitions like this are best done Friday night so if there's any disruption it can be dealt with over the weekend.
How bizarre. Nothing is changing for a year. We are leaving at 11pm because that's when the EU said we could leave.
So what? Suits us too, why argue over such trivia?
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
It's just a little humiliation. Nothing to worry about amidst the quaffing of Old Spitfire ale and Nyetimber.
Oh they're insisting us on giving us what we want an hour early. Oh the humiliation! How ever are we going to live with getting what we want an hour early? 🙄
It's on their terms and is according to their treaty.
But as I said, I wouldn't let it worry you as you count down to 11pm this evening.
That's fine I'm not remotely worried!
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
Didn't get a chance to say it earlier, but good luck with your retirement. Don't have too much fun
He said: “I know what the US will be pitching for when they negotiate a free-trade deal with us. They will pitch for massively greater access for agricultural products. People talk about chlorinated chicken – it is a lot more than that. Farmers in America vote for Trump, pretty much all of them vote for Trump …
“They also want us to pay the same for American pharmaceuticals as they pay in their own market. Do they want us to pay more for their pharmaceuticals? Do the pharmaceutical companies want to use this leverage? Of course they do.”...
Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
Isn't he also angling to be made Trade Secretary? Perhaps he's sniffed that the ERG has served Boris's purpose and that the great man himself will soon be going for a new look.
I’m planning to retire at around the same age (is it unhealthy to have such intentions at 41?), but that depends on contingencies - two in particular, aged 5 and six months.
On topic, today Britain leaves the EU. Personally, Brexit has been a depressing and infuriating mess.
It has, in a hundred small ways, estranged me from the country I have called home for twenty years - even as a “friendly” immigrant I simply feel less welcome than I did.
In turn I am just less invested in this country’s future. The pomp and bombast of much civic life - previously a guilty pleasure - now just seems parochial and embarrassing.
I have not been divorced, but I can only assume the emotional process is related.
Brexit - when all is said and done - is a nativism-infused urge to reduce immigration. It has a mistrust of foreigners - or even just the non-English - at its dark heart.
“We” - but I would increasingly say “you” - are already poorer, materially and spiritually. That process started June 2016 and today marks no particular change in trajectory. Steve Baker is right to keep his celebrations low-key.
Nicely summarized. The less good side of our collective character has won out on this one. And rather than being Leavers v Remainers at national level, which the Referendum technically was, I more view it as a contest inside each and every one of us between these two sides (Remain and Leave) which we all have to varying degrees. Everyone - except perhaps a handful in high security establishments - is at least slightlly Remainy. And we all, even the most Remainy of us, struggle to contain and control that little bit of Leave that lurks within. But anyway, over now. Until the tide changes.
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
Steve Baker’s newly-conciliatory tone is welcome. I expect it is closely connected to being MP for a Remain voting constituency with a rapidly shrinking majority.
A good example of how the country has changed. The Tories held it in 1997 with a majority similar to that held by Baker now.
My old college - really good riposte for the snowflakes.
An intellectually lightweight response.
The lightweight response was the student organiser who said, “... It’s January and it would be borderline dangerous to switch off the central heating.”. Any sacrifice but the personal.
“Borderline dangerous” - what bollocks! I grew up in houses without any central heating at all. Borderline uncomfortable, I grant you.
Stone colleges in a Cambridge winter are pretty chilly indeed.
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
I’m sure they are. But so are damp flats in North London or stone houses with very high ceilings in an Italian winter.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.
East Leics is one of the colder parts of the country, being so far from the sea, but even in a well insulated double glazed modern house it got pretty cold when our boiler failed one winter.
Perhaps the College could make a step in the right direction by turning down the heating and operating it fewer days in the year, pending a renewable system being installed.
Old buildings are beautiful but not always easy to adapt to modern mores.
Of course it got cold, stone vs not stone and double vs single glazing are second order effects on what happens to to the fossil-fuel-generated heat in the building. They are not a free lunch.
The experts who predicted we would have flu cases by end of this week, appear to have been spot on.
I was talking to a Prof at the Uni with 160 Chinese students the other day, many just returned to their courses a little over a week ago.
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
I think there's a fair chance that this develops into something along the lines of flu (which in itself isn't particularly contagious, either) - we're not going to stop it being out there. In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.
I suspect that there are many mild self limiting infections. The German cases documented in the tweet were. However the numbers seriously ill in China are worrying.
I suspect that viral load makes a difference to severity, so that a casual contact like in Germany is a low dose infection, compared to someone living in close proximity to a contact getting a much higher viral load.
You may well be right - but it's all guesswork at the moment, isn't it ?
Japan 'surprised' by positive tests of symptom free individuals: http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ202001310035.html Health ministry officials are expanding the scope of testing for the new coronavirus after being surprised by two positive tests from individuals who showed no obvious symptoms.
The two without symptoms were aboard the first government-chartered flight from Wuhan that landed at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport on Jan. 29.
But tests the following day showed they carried the coronavirus. It is unclear if the individuals are at a stage before symptoms actually appear or if symptoms will not surface. However, since they have the virus, they can transmit it to others if they are not quarantined.
Until now, the standards used to suspect an individual of having the coronavirus included obvious symptoms such as a fever of 37.5 degrees or higher and coughing. Individuals who visited Wuhan or came into contact with those who did and who later developed a fever or respiratory problems were also considered possible suspect cases.
A health ministry official said on Jan. 30 that the ministry never anticipated that individuals without symptoms would test positive for the coronavirus...
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
You don't think highly enough of yourself!
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
Almost no growth at all, France and Italy shrinking. The ECB with the easing taps full on and insisting things are getting better. Negative bond yields across a slew of markets.
What's the recipe for recovery? Ursula Von Der Leyen's unscrutinised and unvoted for green deal. A green deal that promises to further penalise the great manufacturing bases of Europe in Germany, France and Italy.
Even the most devoted euro enthusiast would surely concede its not an attractive picture.
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
You don't think highly enough of yourself!
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
We do engage regularly, which I enjoy. As such I know when you are dissembling and dissembling you were when you tried to deflect on the substance of my post, small point as it was, that even leaving the EU we are doing it on their terms.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
You don't think highly enough of yourself!
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
We do engage regularly, which I enjoy. As such I know when you are dissembling and dissembling you were when you tried to deflect on the substance of my post, small point as it was, that even leaving the EU we are doing it on their terms.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.
We are leaving on their terms somewhat because we want to leave with an agreement. You know full well that I was prepared to leave without a deal but always wanted one and remained stubbornly confident that we would get an amended deal even when all concerned said that was impossible.
The key to getting a deal is of course to compromise where you are able to and fight over issues that matter. This timing is not an issue that matters - it is a date and time that suits both parties so why fight over this issue?
I'm not interested in disagreeing for disagreements sake.
You may well be right - but it's all guesswork at the moment, isn't it ?
Japan 'surprised' by positive tests of symptom free individuals: http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ202001310035.html Health ministry officials are expanding the scope of testing for the new coronavirus after being surprised by two positive tests from individuals who showed no obvious symptoms.
The two without symptoms were aboard the first government-chartered flight from Wuhan that landed at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport on Jan. 29.
But tests the following day showed they carried the coronavirus. It is unclear if the individuals are at a stage before symptoms actually appear or if symptoms will not surface. However, since they have the virus, they can transmit it to others if they are not quarantined.
Until now, the standards used to suspect an individual of having the coronavirus included obvious symptoms such as a fever of 37.5 degrees or higher and coughing. Individuals who visited Wuhan or came into contact with those who did and who later developed a fever or respiratory problems were also considered possible suspect cases.
A health ministry official said on Jan. 30 that the ministry never anticipated that individuals without symptoms would test positive for the coronavirus...
On a matter of pure pedantry they must have anticipated that was possible or they wouldn't have tested these individuals.
And its not original for carriers not to show symptoms.
To quote Sheldon Cooper: If influenza was only contagious after symptoms appeared, it would have died out thousands of years ago. Somewhere between tool using and cave painting, homo habilis would have figured out to kill the guy with the runny nose.
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
You are evidently very worried otherwise you would have ignored my post.
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
You don't think highly enough of yourself!
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
We do engage regularly, which I enjoy. As such I know when you are dissembling and dissembling you were when you tried to deflect on the substance of my post, small point as it was, that even leaving the EU we are doing it on their terms.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.
We are leaving on their terms somewhat because we want to leave with an agreement. You know full well that I was prepared to leave without a deal but always wanted one and remained stubbornly confident that we would get an amended deal even when all concerned said that was impossible.
The key to getting a deal is of course to compromise where you are able to and fight over issues that matter. This timing is not an issue that matters - it is a date and time that suits both parties so why fight over this issue?
I'm not interested in disagreeing for disagreements sake.
The point is, we will need a deal with the EU. Not to have one will be very bad for the UK, and less bad, but still bad for the EU, although far less on a per-country basis.
We can't just pretend that the bloc into which we send nearly half our exports doesn't exist and hence we can just have a "no deal" with them. We will have a deal and, sadly, it will be almost wholly on their terms. My small point about the fanfare of leaving at, er, 11pm our time, is that such is going to be the tenor of these negotiations. We will largely be takers not makers.
Comments
A less facile answer would be to look at the cost of converting the College heating, and of better heat conservation.
The decision making power is already coming back home. We’re not debating that.
We’re debating if “Leavers” are going to be happy if that sovereignty is exercised in a way that makes their lives worse - for example by prioritizing fishing rights over manufacturing jobs.
We all know the answer.
Thus practicing what I preach, this is my last ever post on her unless absolutely forced to do another one.
Clearly you know an expert or two in retirement planning
Best of luck to yourself and your other half, with whatever you decide do next.
If the students wish the college to divest from oil companies the very first step would be to stop being a customer of oil companies. So yes, demand the central heating is turned off. This is 2020 there are alternatives that exist to gas central heating.
The college could replace its gas central heating with a ground source heat pump, or alternatives like that. That could remove their gas consumption, if they switch their kitchens to electric if they're not already too.
Of course however that will be extremely expensive. But if these students are serious then the next step is for them to raise the money to fund this project if it matters to them. When I was at university I did fundraising activities most Saturdays for a year and we raised a lot of money to go to worthwhile charities. If these students want to fundraise to do this and not give money to other worthwhile charities then they could raise the funds to do this within a couple of years probably. And then the college would be gas-free.
All this would be hard work for the students and would mean money wouldn't go to other worthwhile charities they'd prefer, but if this is what they want they should put their efforts where their placards are. Demanding a pretend divestment to feel they've done something while they keep warm by continuing to consume gas and do nothing practical is not a solution.
“Dangerous” is an exaggeration. Heat conservation and alternative fuels are a very good idea. So are hot water bottles, vests and putting on extra layers of clothing when it gets cold, if people are really serious about not wasting energy.
But it doesn't really need to be above 15 C for that purpose. Anything on top is personal preference.
GDP and growth mean nothing to the layman.
What matters is their actual job. Their actual livelihood.
And people say Remainers are out of touch.
20 years later I was getting bored and it was tailing off and for the next 5 years it dwindled away and I finally wound it up. Sad not to have an actual retirement day. It sort of just happened over time.
I consider myself fortunate although my wife thinks I need to get out an meet more people. Did enjoy the fact though that I could hold a conference call while in my dressing gown and breaking in a new pair of ski boots.
Perhaps the College could make a step in the right direction by turning down the heating and operating it fewer days in the year, pending a renewable system being installed.
Old buildings are beautiful but not always easy to adapt to modern mores.
I invite you to consider the following sentiments which (expressed in various ways) were not uncommon amongst Leavers.
"We stood alone in 1940. We can do it again." - or - "We got through the Blitz. I think we can get through this."
We’re debating what people actually want.
Brexit is real now. We have to talk about reality and the actual consequences of decisions.
The spider obviously tried to tangle up and poison the bee, but has now disappeared leaving the bee confused, angry and struggling for life. I have potted it up and put it outside with a drop of honey to die or recover on its own.
I couldn't have asked, didn't ask, for a more brutal Brexit allegory to commemorate this day. The ultimate fate of the bee is and will remain unknown.
If the latter, that is food for thought indeed.
Why on earth would not any red-blooded Brexiter Brit demand and have it agreed that we leave at midnight OUR TIME? We have even caved in on the timing of our leaving. Does this not send out certain signals as to how the rest of the negotiations might go?
Or did we want to leave at 11pm on account of the symbolism. Of..er...
The virtual abandonment of any pretence to investigate fraud on individuals - even in cases where they might have lost their life savings - is of the same order.
Because crime effect any of us only occasionally, the extent of the desuetude isn't immediately apparent.
One might also point out that so called blue chip oil companies are a pretty risky investment these days...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/31/change-climate-policy-now-to-avert-oil-market-crisis-warns-thinktank
If we'd left at midnight tonight then arguably we'd have left at 0:00 on 1 February.
Why leave in February when we can leave in January?
It seems also that people continue to transmit virus for some time after recovery. This is going to be a very difficult virus to contain. Let's hope a vaccine is out quickly, but realistically that is months away. In the meantime handwashing and covering mouths is the best we can do.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1223075876872556550?s=19
Are the protestors into serious changes, or pretend ones? If they're into serious changes they should demand the central heating is turned off first - if you look at my earlier post I went into detail on how they could achieve that.
Good on the college for calling out nonsense.
I’m planning to retire at around the same age (is it unhealthy to have such intentions at 41?), but that depends on contingencies - two in particular, aged 5 and six months.
On topic, today Britain leaves the EU.
Personally, Brexit has been a depressing and infuriating mess.
It has, in a hundred small ways, estranged me from the country I have called home for twenty years - even as a “friendly” immigrant I simply feel less welcome than I did.
In turn I am just less invested in this country’s future. The pomp and bombast of much civic life - previously a guilty pleasure - now just seems parochial and embarrassing.
I have not been divorced, but I can only assume the emotional process is related.
Brexit - when all is said and done - is a nativism-infused urge to reduce immigration. It has a mistrust of foreigners - or even just the non-English - at its dark heart.
“We” - but I would increasingly say “you” - are already poorer, materially and spiritually. That process started June 2016 and today marks no particular change in trajectory. Steve Baker is right to keep his celebrations low-key.
In that event, I'm hoping that there are large number of undocumented mild cases (which seems fairly likely), so the mortality rate is well below the reported/guesstimated 2 to 3%.
Besides, the point is we are subordinate to the EU while we are members, after we leave we are not. Such trivia as time we leave is immaterial, the key for any Brexiteer is to leave and from there we can determine our future on whatever timezone we prefer.
You're grasping at straws here. I've not seen a single Brexiteer bemoan us leaving at 11pm tonight, your attempt at projecting an issue where there is none is not serious.
That’s why her supporters don’t think it matters and why one, on Twitter, could - unironically - praise her “command of detail”.
https://twitter.com/chroniclelive/status/1223193447391223810?s=21
I suspect that viral load makes a difference to severity, so that a casual contact like in Germany is a low dose infection, compared to someone living in close proximity to a contact getting a much higher viral load.
The real disruption happens on 31/12/2020 which is a Thursday.
(Unless something else is agreed, of course.)
"None of it was paid for by the Labour Party. It was funded solely by my own parliamentary expenses; an entirely proper use of such monies. Thus all that material was mine alone, not the Labour Party’s."
Something funded by public money (Parliamentary expenses) certainly does not ***belong*** to Rob Marris.
The work product belongs Mr Marris.
It is something that has often been cited when MPs defect/leave parties.
But as I said, I wouldn't let it worry you as you count down to 11pm this evening.
If you are, if you're coming around to the idea of the UK being members as a humiliation, then I presume you are going to welcome our leaving. Welcome aboard!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/31/trump-will-put-us-interests-first-in-trade-talks-says-kim-darroch-ambassador
Darroch, who said that warnings on the US’s trade demands had been made to No 10 during his tenure in Washington DC, also said it was “impossible” for a deal to get through Congress by the end of 2020 and that it appeared to be “a narrow and rocky path to get to where they [the UK government] want to be”.
He said: “I know what the US will be pitching for when they negotiate a free-trade deal with us. They will pitch for massively greater access for agricultural products. People talk about chlorinated chicken – it is a lot more than that. Farmers in America vote for Trump, pretty much all of them vote for Trump …
“They also want us to pay the same for American pharmaceuticals as they pay in their own market. Do they want us to pay more for their pharmaceuticals? Do the pharmaceutical companies want to use this leverage? Of course they do.”...
I am just pointing out who is likely to have the greater influence in our future negotiations and the fact that we are leaving at midnight *their time* is a very small indication of this. Same with Boris' deal and the border in the Irish Sea, which he said no PM could ever agree to, just before he agreed to it.
Japan 'surprised' by positive tests of symptom free individuals:
http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ202001310035.html
Health ministry officials are expanding the scope of testing for the new coronavirus after being surprised by two positive tests from individuals who showed no obvious symptoms.
The two without symptoms were aboard the first government-chartered flight from Wuhan that landed at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport on Jan. 29.
But tests the following day showed they carried the coronavirus. It is unclear if the individuals are at a stage before symptoms actually appear or if symptoms will not surface. However, since they have the virus, they can transmit it to others if they are not quarantined.
Until now, the standards used to suspect an individual of having the coronavirus included obvious symptoms such as a fever of 37.5 degrees or higher and coughing. Individuals who visited Wuhan or came into contact with those who did and who later developed a fever or respiratory problems were also considered possible suspect cases.
A health ministry official said on Jan. 30 that the ministry never anticipated that individuals without symptoms would test positive for the coronavirus...
I responded to your post because it was you and we engage frequently, not because of any worries. Had you not posted it I wouldn't have engaged in the topic by bringing it up unilaterally.
Almost no growth at all, France and Italy shrinking. The ECB with the easing taps full on and insisting things are getting better. Negative bond yields across a slew of markets.
What's the recipe for recovery? Ursula Von Der Leyen's unscrutinised and unvoted for green deal. A green deal that promises to further penalise the great manufacturing bases of Europe in Germany, France and Italy.
Even the most devoted euro enthusiast would surely concede its not an attractive picture.
"It suits us"..."an hour early, great"..."less chance of disruption" are all, as you are well aware, dissembling.
The key to getting a deal is of course to compromise where you are able to and fight over issues that matter. This timing is not an issue that matters - it is a date and time that suits both parties so why fight over this issue?
I'm not interested in disagreeing for disagreements sake.
And its not original for carriers not to show symptoms.
To quote Sheldon Cooper: If influenza was only contagious after symptoms appeared, it would have died out thousands of years ago. Somewhere between tool using and cave painting, homo habilis would have figured out to kill the guy with the runny nose.
We can't just pretend that the bloc into which we send nearly half our exports doesn't exist and hence we can just have a "no deal" with them. We will have a deal and, sadly, it will be almost wholly on their terms. My small point about the fanfare of leaving at, er, 11pm our time, is that such is going to be the tenor of these negotiations. We will largely be takers not makers.