politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Swinson’s successor may have only become an MP yesterday
Comments
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And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.0 -
Just a thought on this election , I can honestly say all my Christmas’s have come at once . I have waited patiently since 1997 to see the tories regain a decent working majority , I have wanted out of the EU for most of my adult life and I’m in my fifties . This finally is the chance for the Tories to become again a One Nation party to regain the trust of northern communities left behind since the closure of heavy industry , to see opportunity spread across the whole country. If Boris is resolute and determined he can retain those northern constituencies at the next election and dispel those labour lies of privatising the NHS by investing in that and our national infrastructure and transport links and making us fit for the 21st century . He can finish the job of destroying the far left and right of politics and we can once again be a United Kingdom. Once we’ve left the EU if he can make it a success and dispel project fear , and hopefully the appetite of Scotland to leave the UK will dwindle . One can only hope....
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Thanks for the reply - I haven't tallied mine as well. I've just put an x when it becomes incorrect, I missed a couple but having played twice I think I'm 0 for 12.tlg86 said:
You're essentially guessing 12 numbers. Just flicking through my results this season, and my best effort was 8/12.JBriskinindyref2 said:O/T
Jeff's Super Six
Unlike Mr Meeks I am not totally against freerolls.
So, I've played Jeff's Super Six a couple of times now. I reckon it takes me no more than 15 mins absolute tops to fill in - and provides a form of enjoyment on a Saturday afternoon.
But I got thinking. I've always dislike correct score predictions. So to get even one right would be quite good going. Then I thought that the chances of getting the allotted six right might be astronomical.
So, using cost/benefit anaylsis, opportunity cost and all your gambling skill; can you answer the question:
Is it worth playing Jeff's Super Six.
Jeff's Super Six pays out 125 grand GBP and you can play it next week at-
https://super6.skysports.com/
I just clicked on the link to make sure it was working and apparently it's 250 grand next week.
8/12 is not bad - perhaps I will keep playing0 -
Yeah, but the very big difference is that Corbyn is nowhere near power, and was never likely to be, while Johnson is ensconced in No 10 for the duration. Hence Johnson is far more dangerous than Corbyn.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.0 -
I hope very much they do get their act together, so I can vote for them and get rid of Johnson (if he lasts that long).CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
But as you admit it seems unlikely.0 -
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.0 -
Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
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How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?0
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Anyone know how this guy got around the limit on premium bond investment being £50k?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/dec/14/man-handed-193000-in-sort-code-error-says-he-tried-to-give-it-back0 -
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?AlastairMeeks said:
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.Byronic said:
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.Byronic said:
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.algarkirk said:
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.Byronic said:fp for OLBoy
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!1 -
They take both West Brom seats, three seats in Stoke, seats in walsall, Dudley and Wolverhampton, and Birmingham Northfield.nunu2 said:Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
What more did you want?1 -
Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised2 -
The lot to be fairydoethur said:
They take both West Brom seats, three seats in Stoke, seats in walsall, Dudley and Wolverhampton, and Birmingham Northfield.nunu2 said:Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
What more did you want?0 -
Lots of people flying in for a conference will produce a huge amount of CO2.Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised
And the flying will contribute to global warming and all.0 -
Underperform?nunu2 said:Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
They gained two seats in Wolverhampton, two in West Bromwich, three in Stoke / Newcastle-u-Lyme, one in Birmingham, and almost won two Coventry seats. They also polled 68% in Cannock Chase, which was a very safe Labour seat until 2010.
That isn't underperforming.2 -
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.BluestBlue said:
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.0 -
Maybe they will all come by sail. !!!!ydoethur said:
Lots of people flying in for a conference will produce a huge amount of CO2.Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised
And the flying will contribute to global warming and all.0 -
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
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Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
1 -
Looks like Labour are taking all the wrong lessons from this.
Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy will get the Cooper/Kendall 2015 treatment and we'll end up with a lefty drone as Labour leader again.1 -
They don't usually go backwards after 9 years though.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.BluestBlue said:
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.0 -
Stand behind the sail, and start speaking. The resulting wind will blow the boat steadily forwards.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they will all come by sail. !!!!ydoethur said:
Lots of people flying in for a conference will produce a huge amount of CO2.Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised
And the flying will contribute to global warming and all.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedgefield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
(You'll have to type the link in manually)
Sedgefield for instance.
Labour vote in 2017 was 22,202, 2019 was 15096. Seems conceivable some of those 3518 votes came from Labour (1763 voted UKIP in 2017 so that might be the other half).
But Labour lost 7106 votes, so 7107 - 3518 = 3589, which just about what the Tory vote went up by.
So I think it's fair to say that seat was lost due to a combination of Corbyn and Brexit. Both of these issues need resolving and fast. Phil Wilson said it was down to Corbyn on the doorstep.0 -
The problem ain't the voters. It's the members.SandyRentool said:
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
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Greta would be good at thatydoethur said:
Stand behind the sail, and start speaking. The resulting wind will blow the boat steadily forwards.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe they will all come by sail. !!!!ydoethur said:
Lots of people flying in for a conference will produce a huge amount of CO2.Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised
And the flying will contribute to global warming and all.0 -
Mango said:AlastairMeeks said:
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.Byronic said:
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.Byronic said:
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.algarkirk said:
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.Byronic said:fp for OLBoy
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Calm down dear, you know another hissy fit is bad for your blood pressure.0 -
NOW I HAVE A PARLIAMENTARY MAJORITY!Mango said:
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?AlastairMeeks said:
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.Byronic said:
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.Byronic said:
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.algarkirk said:
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.Byronic said:fp for OLBoy
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
HO! HO! HO!0 -
This was the first election since 1865 where an incumbent government increased its majority after it had decreased at the previous election.RobD said:
They don't usually go backwards after 9 years though.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.BluestBlue said:
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
It is a very, very dramatic result.1 -
I suggest Labour supporters spend some time in Cannock Chase. The last time Labour won a general election in 2005 the result was Lab 51%, Con 30%. The result on Thursday was Con 68%, Lab 25%. That's a 32% swing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannock_Chase_(UK_Parliament_constituency)1 -
Well quite - but I'm saying Labour has a chance if it's prepared to take it. But I concede it's a slim oneRobD said:
They don't usually go backwards after 9 years though.CorrectHorseBattery said:
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.BluestBlue said:
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.0 -
0
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Too true. There is now a massive disconnect between the membership and the voter base.Black_Rook said:
The problem ain't the voters. It's the members.SandyRentool said:
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
1 -
It is going to take years. Momentum has to be neutralised and that is not on the horizonCorrectHorseBattery said:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedgefield_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
(You'll have to type the link in manually)
Sedgefield for instance.
Labour vote in 2017 was 22,202, 2019 was 15096. Seems conceivable some of those 3518 votes came from Labour (1763 voted UKIP in 2017 so that might be the other half).
But Labour lost 7106 votes, so 7107 - 3518 = 3589, which just about what the Tory vote went up by.
So I think it's fair to say that seat was lost due to a combination of Corbyn and Brexit. Both of these issues need resolving and fast. Phil Wilson said it was down to Corbyn on the doorstep.0 -
It should be protected as much as possible. But HS tracks need to be straight (ish). If woodland preservation were an absolute priority hardly any new infrastructure could be built anywhere.SandyRentool said:
Good for them. All this wibble about tree planting - protecting vital habitats like ancient woodland should be a priority.Alphabet_Soup said:
There are two Swampy-camps near Leamington Spa "protecting" ancient woodland. Must be bloody cold there tonight - and wet with it.ydoethur said:
Both. Plus a number of emotive stories about the disruption it will cause in building.ManchesterKurt said:HS2 was first announced in 2008.
Looking at this thread it amazes me 11 years on how little people understand about what it would deliver to the parts of the country not directly served by the new lines.
Poor media coverage or lack of interest in understanding what is planned?
I'm more concerned about cities spreading into the green belt instead of high-density development. Obviously it's cheaper, but satellite estates are usually bereft of community facilities apart from a primary school and a strip of fast-food outlets. We need to promote good quality city living as a viable lifestyle. Central Brum and Manchester look great these days - haven't been to Leeds for 30 years. I'm off to Manhattan next week. Wish I could afford to move there.0 -
Those Swansea and Cardiff tidal lagoons? Rebranded "Boris Bays", they'll get support this time....Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised0 -
Nah, just a backbencher.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Portillo was Defence Secretary and possible leadership candidate back in 1997.0 -
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.0 -
I am very supportive of the lagoonsMarqueeMark said:
Those Swansea and Cardiff tidal lagoons? Rebranded "Boris Bays", they'll get support this time....Big_G_NorthWales said:Apparently the UK hosts the World's climate change conference next year
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised1 -
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-507773710 -
Well, it is pumping in plenty of stuff: populism, alt-right prejudice and tactics, and a total disregard for facts and truth. Unsurprising, as there were exactly the things that the referendum was won on.Byronic said:One upside to Brexit is that Northern voters have abandoned their devotion to a useless Labour party, and are trying new tastes and flavours. This can only be good for democracy, and might even be good for northern voters. Because, Brexit.
By the way this is EXACTLY what sovereignty Leavers predicted: that Brexit would pump fresh blood into our moribund body politic. And so it is.
Cue the "not all leavers" protests. The dirty truth that a lot of you will have to face, even the I-voted-leave-to-increase-immigration mob, is who you have made your bed with.
An easier way to pump in some blood might be having an electoral system that actually counts your vote, some decentralisation so you have a chance to influence things closer to you, and an end to the Eton-Commons-CushyDirectorships pathway. That might a little bit too much new blood for the ruling class though...
And now I sound like a bloody Trot, despite being a pragmatic left-liberal.0 -
CorrectHorseBattery said:
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.BluestBlue said:
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.ydoethur said:
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.CorrectHorseBattery said:
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.ydoethur said:
Corbyn failed in two attempts.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
After each election loss Labour has swung more to the left & lost again,most people would think that 9 years & three leaders later Labour might have got the message but apparently not.
One more heave!1 -
Meeks misspelled shitshow-Mango said:
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?AlastairMeeks said:
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.Byronic said:
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.Byronic said:
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.algarkirk said:
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.Byronic said:fp for OLBoy
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
The biggest sideshow in History?
A farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense; The EU was and is little more than glorified trading block. Its benign malign influence was rarely felt by the average UK citizen. Brexit however now lays claim to being the “most divisive referendum in UK History”
I disagree; it is little more than the biggest sideshow in history.
First Minister of Scotland has made it clear she want indyref2 happen in 2020 (little more than 5 years after the first; sore loser syndrome existed before “Remoaners” was a term)
The UK, having recently voted for its own independence is now to consider splitting itself in two.
The battle for unity on this small island of the North Atlantic is to begin again shortly.
Are you ready?
0 -
They won't lose London. They are safe seats now. The new swing voters are working class voters of the north.CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
Just as the tories can win in rural Sussex and Redcar Labour don't have to make a false choice between London and winning back the north.0 -
A lot will .. they lent their votes as Boris said. Does not mean they will not again if Labour do not learn from their mistakes.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-507773711 -
Increased vote 6 elections in a row0
-
Pidcock on the hand was the future, once.....Sunil_Prasannan said:
Nah, just a backbencher.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Portillo was Defence Secretary and possible leadership candidate back in 1997.0 -
Brexit is only part of a much wider culture war, which won't go away when (if?) Brexit is ever fully resolved. I've said before that the Tories are if anything a little too nice, too gentlemanly. If the US Republicans applied their methods to the UK, they would never lose an election.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-507773710 -
Jess will stand0
-
Actually, Marxists hate Trotskyites.Mango said:
And now I sound like a bloody Trot, despite being a pragmatic left-liberal.
For example, during the Spanish Civil War, the Communists (PCE) referred to and eventually cracked down on their supposed POUM allies as "Trotskyite-Fascists".0 -
ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
Oh dear what a sore loser.0 -
Can I also say, Jess seems to be one of the few Labour politicians known by their first name0
-
Is she?CorrectHorseBattery said:Can I also say, Jess seems to be one of the few Labour politicians known by their first name
0 -
Yup the rest went to.public school and are known by their surnamesCorrectHorseBattery said:Can I also say, Jess seems to be one of the few Labour politicians known by their first name
1 -
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.2 -
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Today's Times printed the latest gossip about who might be for the high jump come the expected February reshuffle. Rees Mogg, Truss and Leadsom all on the list IIRC.PeterMannion said:Jacob Tree Frog still banned from media?
0 -
Jon Wor-Lass?SandyRentool said:
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.0 -
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 yearsCorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland0 -
Probably some in his partners name and maybe kids?alex_ said:Anyone know how this guy got around the limit on premium bond investment being £50k?
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/dec/14/man-handed-193000-in-sort-code-error-says-he-tried-to-give-it-back
But the story’s a lie (he didn’t try to give it back he said “take all my money and leave me with what I’ve spent”) so the premium bonds but might be a lie too.0 -
Yes, but those voters are still likely to be more socially liberal than their northern counterparts. Many poorer voters in London voted Remain after all.SandyRentool said:
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
0 -
I must admit - Boris banging on about One Nation Conservative does grate a bit with me, despite being a Tory sympathizer. He was elected as tory leader on a platform that included tax cuts for the what I would consider rich.funkhauser said:ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
Oh dear what a sore loser.
I'm glad he's dropped that part now, but it was a bad omen.0 -
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 yearsCorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
1 -
So basically Leavers have to agree with you (“Brexit is a shut show”) and if they don’t then “they are not doing their bit”AlastairMeeks said:
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.Byronic said:
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.Byronic said:
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.algarkirk said:
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.Byronic said:fp for OLBoy
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
1 -
The 2005 to 2019 comparison is interesting across England as a whole. V similar voteshare but very different number of MPs. Obviously a part of this is the Lib Dems having a 'mare and increased Tory voteshare, but also big changes in the geographic spread and hence efficiency of the Labour vote... Twitter thread I like.Andy_JS said:I suggest Labour supporters spend some time in Cannock Chase. The last time Labour won a general election in 2005 the result was Lab 51%, Con 30%. The result on Thursday was Con 68%, Lab 25%. That's a 32% swing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannock_Chase_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1205785072244269056
Actually worth reading the whole thing. For those that can't be bothered some highlights...I never had much confidence about what Corbyn would do to Lab's vote share, & it turned to be something v different in 2017 and 2019. But from the very beginning (& i can remember chatting to @rafaelbehr in Corbyn's earliest days) I was convinced he'd damage its distribution. Votes were bound to pile up in student towns and diverse inner-cities, where they would bring in few extra seats. At the same time they were always likely to fall away in towns and suburbs where there is more of a premium on patriotism. ... Brexit really has inflamed it. But it is deeper and more cultural than that — votes have been shifting left in more educated places, and right in less educated ones. (A point David Runciman if @TPpodcast_ has been making since the referendum https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/trump-brexit-education-gap-tearing-politics-apart …) The cultural front is going to be fraught for ANY Labour leader who wants to try and hold on to its metropolitan voters and members, while also reconnecting with all the communities it lost on Thursday0 -
Still, someone, indeed everyone who wants some kind of left of centre government before mid century, needs to tell these fools to fuck off and join the SWP where they belong.The_Apocalypse said:
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.CorrectHorseBattery said:1 -
Just in terms of cost, Medicare For All is a monster - I don't think Corbyn was proposing anything nearly as expensive. You could argue that on the political spectrum it's just taking America where Britain already is, but they want to do it in a country with insane medical costs, which makes the new taxing requirements pretty humongous.The_Apocalypse said:
There’s a lot of American commentary on Twitter about this election. One comment that struck me as odd was Bill Maher’s tweet. Sanders and Warren are nowhere near as ‘out there’ as Corbyn is.0 -
Not really sure how to break this to you. But if you're a UK, citizen, Boris is your PM. It matters not how much of a childish strop you throw, get used to itClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.1 -
Blue labour is silly - and despite your claim that it stands for blue collar - it was all about triangulation and silliness. Like the Tory's changing their torch into a tree.SandyRentool said:
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.0 -
Did Crudas keep his seat?SandyRentool said:
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.
If so, he is badly needed nearer the action.0 -
I keep saying it's a tall order - but I'm also saying this is what Labour needs to do.Big_G_NorthWales said:
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 yearsCorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland0 -
Who on earth are these people?The_Apocalypse said:
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.CorrectHorseBattery said:1 -
That ‘someone’ should be an individual who isn’t a hypocrite though. It should also be someone who was actually involved in an election winning machine. Ayesha talks like she wasn’t an advisor to guy who also lost an election.rottenborough said:
Still, someone, indeed everyone who wants some kind of left of centre government before mid century, needs to tell these fools to fuck off and join the SWP where they belong.The_Apocalypse said:
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Yes, it's unlikely that the huge number of new members who joined for Corbyn are now going to turn around and say "we were wrong, what Labour needs is a new Blair". The only way you are going to counter that is either get an even huger number of moderates to join the party, or wait until successive failures see the far-left get bored and drift away.rottenborough said:
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 yearsCorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland0 -
No he didn't. It's a shutshow. Right first time.JBriskinindyref2 said:
Meeks misspelled shitshow-Mango said:
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?AlastairMeeks said:
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.Byronic said:
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.Byronic said:
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.algarkirk said:
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.Byronic said:fp for OLBoy
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
......0 -
Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.3
-
Thinks for a minuteBluestBlue said:
Things we've been told over the years:
Boris won't win in London...
Boris won't win in London twice...
Boris won't be in the Cabinet...
Boris won't be Prime Minister...
Boris won't get a Brexit Deal...
Boris won't win an election...
Boris won't win a landslide...
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
London Mayoral Election 2012: yup, I won a bet on that
EU Ref 2016: yup, I won on that as well
UK GE 2019: yup, I won on that as well
Pause.
It's OK: everybody else hates me too...
0 -
Hmm. Important and key figure in the Jezza project, highlighting Nandy?
Something afoot?
https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/12058579761097318410 -
Like Venezuela you mean?JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.0 -
Ditto! Nice pub atmosphere today. Lots of rancour gone. During peak Brexitangst it was sometimes quite unpleasant and also very poor signal-noise ratio. This GE seems to have kicked it back into business. Good show everyone!SandyRentool said:Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.
0 -
There is always the off chance that, if you wait long enough, the far-left will grow upglw said:
Yes, it's unlikely that the huge number of new members who joined for Corbyn are now going to turn around and say "we were wrong, what Labour needs is a new Blair". The only way you are going to counter that is either get an even huger number of moderates to join the party, or wait until successive failures see the far-left get bored and drift away.rottenborough said:
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 yearsCorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland0 -
Ayesha - former Labour advisorAlphabet_Soup said:
Who on earth are these people?The_Apocalypse said:
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.CorrectHorseBattery said:
Ash Sarkar - works with Novara media0 -
Sorry, Boris is your Prime Minister. That's how elections work. If your party weren't so shit, with a shit Revoke policy and shit "Prime Minister" Jo Swinson it might have all been so different.ClippP said:
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.BluestBlue said:Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
But....0 -
I get confused with all the South American ones - but yeah I think they're having a bad time of it at the moment.ReggieCide said:
Like Venezuela you mean?JBriskinindyref2 said:
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Become a tory !!!!!!!CorrectHorseBattery said:How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
I probably shouldn't be giving Labour such good advice now I am officially a PB Tory (even if I did go eenie meenie mineee mo)0 -
Not all is bad then.Black_Rook said:
Today's Times printed the latest gossip about who might be for the high jump come the expected February reshuffle. Rees Mogg, Truss and Leadsom all on the list IIRC.PeterMannion said:Jacob Tree Frog still banned from media?
But there is still Javid, Raab, Hancock, IDS, and so many more.
If he really wants to be a one-nation Conservative.0 -
Corbyn Labour seems to have suffered from many problems and overwhelmingly he is to blame for Labour's failure but I do think those that pushed a second referendum to be Labour's policy on Brexit have something to answer for too.
Many of those on the right of the party should reflect on that, just as much as the left need to reflect on their failures too.
Really the whole party is fucked.0 -
I haven't been on line much today, trying to catch up sleep, but when I have the debate does seem to be much better. Long may it continue now the dynamics have changedSandyRentool said:Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.
I thought it was significant when Heseltine announced they had lost and that there is not point in carrying on trying to stop Brexit0 -
I wasn't suggesting that they will grow up, but maybe they will get bored and find another vehicle for the inevitable proletarian revolution.ReggieCide said:
There is always the off chance that, if you wait long enough, the far-left will grow upglw said:
Yes, it's unlikely that the huge number of new members who joined for Corbyn are now going to turn around and say "we were wrong, what Labour needs is a new Blair". The only way you are going to counter that is either get an even huger number of moderates to join the party, or wait until successive failures see the far-left get bored and drift away.rottenborough said:
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 yearsCorrectHorseBattery said:
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.squareroot2 said:My portillo moment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland0 -
And what would the Brexit stance have been? People's vote wouldn't have gone down great with the Northern Heartlands. You can talk about how badly Jezza played, but his Brexit stance was closer to those voters than Kier Starmer's.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50790445
About halfway down there's an interview with Phil Wilson.
I am absolutely convinced that if Keir Starmer had stood on the 2017 manifesto it would have been a minority Labour Government at the worst. But because so many of us were too stupid to see what was happening and too arrogant to listen, Labour is going to climb what should have been a few seats, now being 60+.
We've really cocked this up, I think it's difficult to understate how badly.0 -
Yes, I think the GE result has cleared the air. Boris has to delivery an optimal Brexit/EU settlement now. There's no room for any more silliness.MyBurningEars said:
Ditto! Nice pub atmosphere today. Lots of rancour gone. During peak Brexitangst it was sometimes quite unpleasant and also very poor signal-noise ratio. This GE seems to have kicked it back into business. Good show everyone!SandyRentool said:Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.
0 -
Whose this Jess?CorrectHorseBattery said:Jess will stand
0 -
What do you mean? She didn't advise Corbyn so has no idea what he was up to or you would expect that someone who talks like she does couldn't possibly have advised Corbyn - too posh, too clever, too centrist?The_Apocalypse said:
That ‘someone’ should be an individual who isn’t a hypocrite though. It should also be someone who was actually involved in an election winning machine. Ayesha talks like she wasn’t an advisor to guy who also lost an election.rottenborough said:
Still, someone, indeed everyone who wants some kind of left of centre government before mid century, needs to tell these fools to fuck off and join the SWP where they belong.The_Apocalypse said:
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.CorrectHorseBattery said:0 -
Is there a graph of psbr from 2010 brown to now showing the decline under successive tory govts. My stepson does not believe me..0
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Have we lost any posters now the GE is over ?0
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The United Kingdom is a gonner, I am afraid. I will turn up at the polling place and vote No again, but I will be like the man in 1923 mourning the loss of the Hapsburg Empire. Brexit is the ascendancy of English nationalism, a strain that is as welcome in Scotland as ebola. English nationalists don't hide their lack of interest either in other bits of the supposedly United Kingdom. You may be right, the EU itself maybe is the sideshow. The ending of the Union as a consequence of Brexit is the big one. Northern Ireland will probably be out first. The Northern Ireland protocol that Johnson signed up to in October appears to guarantee that. Will Scotland hang around long after Northern Ireland goes?JBriskinindyref2 said:
Meeks misspelled shitshow-
The biggest sideshow in History?
A farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense; The EU was and is little more than glorified trading block. Its benign malign influence was rarely felt by the average UK citizen. Brexit however now lays claim to being the “most divisive referendum in UK History”
I disagree; it is little more than the biggest sideshow in history.
First Minister of Scotland has made it clear she want indyref2 happen in 2020 (little more than 5 years after the first; sore loser syndrome existed before “Remoaners” was a term)
The UK, having recently voted for its own independence is now to consider splitting itself in two.
The battle for unity on this small island of the North Atlantic is to begin again shortly.
Are you ready?
I am sorry. Really.
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That is a fair point.Luckyguy1983 said:
And what would the Brexit stance have been? People's vote wouldn't have gone down great with the Northern Heartlands. You can talk about how badly Jezza played, but his Brexit stance was closer to those voters than Kier Starmer's.CorrectHorseBattery said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50790445
About halfway down there's an interview with Phil Wilson.
I am absolutely convinced that if Keir Starmer had stood on the 2017 manifesto it would have been a minority Labour Government at the worst. But because so many of us were too stupid to see what was happening and too arrogant to listen, Labour is going to climb what should have been a few seats, now being 60+.
We've really cocked this up, I think it's difficult to understate how badly.
Fundamentally Corbyn would have lost less badly if he'd stuck to the original Brexit policy. His changing and shifting fundamentally validated what many people thought was true about him, i.e. he could not be trusted.
But the people saying this were in many cases, on the right of the party (though to be fair people like Thornberry were arguing the same) and so Corbyn can't be entirely blamed for that one. Although not showing leadership means he can be.
It seems like the whole Labour Party is pretty divided over multiple issues - and they really need an Attlee to bring them all together. Perhaps that means being ruthless and kicking out Momentum and so on but I am unconvinced that sort of person exists. And my fear is that nobody is pragmatic enough to see there are elements of 2017 that they should take forward but also elements they shouldn't and also elements of Blairism that they should take forward and also elements they shouldn't.
Of course, if David M hadn't gone away we might have that pragmatism now. But the most pragmatic people seem to be Starmer, Rayner and Nandy, Kinnock at present. The other pragmatists just lost their seats.
From those I think Kinnock probably is the best, having argued for Brexit for three years and being a decent communicator - but I fear he might get attacks about nepotism. And I don't think the members will go for him.0 -
Jess Phillipsfunkhauser said:
Whose this Jess?CorrectHorseBattery said:Jess will stand
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No, that was Cameron. Boris won't be content without being a great PM.CorrectHorseBattery said:
This rather underlines my point though, Johnson is very good at winning things - but he's very poor at actually changing anything.BluestBlue said:
Things we've been told over the years:
Boris won't win in London...
Boris won't win in London twice...
Boris won't be in the Cabinet...
Boris won't be Prime Minister...
Boris won't get a Brexit Deal...
Boris won't win an election...
Boris won't win a landslide...
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
My view of him is that he's only interested in winning, he's not actually interested in changing the country. But we will see.0 -
If he gets more Remainers or soft Brexiteers in, it might indicate his direction of travel re BrexitClippP said:
Not all is bad then.Black_Rook said:
Today's Times printed the latest gossip about who might be for the high jump come the expected February reshuffle. Rees Mogg, Truss and Leadsom all on the list IIRC.PeterMannion said:Jacob Tree Frog still banned from media?
But there is still Javid, Raab, Hancock, IDS, and so many more.
If he really wants to be a one-nation Conservative.0
