Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Just a thought on this election , I can honestly say all my Christmas’s have come at once . I have waited patiently since 1997 to see the tories regain a decent working majority , I have wanted out of the EU for most of my adult life and I’m in my fifties . This finally is the chance for the Tories to become again a One Nation party to regain the trust of northern communities left behind since the closure of heavy industry , to see opportunity spread across the whole country. If Boris is resolute and determined he can retain those northern constituencies at the next election and dispel those labour lies of privatising the NHS by investing in that and our national infrastructure and transport links and making us fit for the 21st century . He can finish the job of destroying the far left and right of politics and we can once again be a United Kingdom. Once we’ve left the EU if he can make it a success and dispel project fear , and hopefully the appetite of Scotland to leave the UK will dwindle . One can only hope....
Unlike Mr Meeks I am not totally against freerolls.
So, I've played Jeff's Super Six a couple of times now. I reckon it takes me no more than 15 mins absolute tops to fill in - and provides a form of enjoyment on a Saturday afternoon.
But I got thinking. I've always dislike correct score predictions. So to get even one right would be quite good going. Then I thought that the chances of getting the allotted six right might be astronomical.
So, using cost/benefit anaylsis, opportunity cost and all your gambling skill; can you answer the question:
Is it worth playing Jeff's Super Six.
Jeff's Super Six pays out 125 grand GBP and you can play it next week at-
I just clicked on the link to make sure it was working and apparently it's 250 grand next week.
You're essentially guessing 12 numbers. Just flicking through my results this season, and my best effort was 8/12.
Thanks for the reply - I haven't tallied mine as well. I've just put an x when it becomes incorrect, I missed a couple but having played twice I think I'm 0 for 12.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
Yeah, but the very big difference is that Corbyn is nowhere near power, and was never likely to be, while Johnson is ensconced in No 10 for the duration. Hence Johnson is far more dangerous than Corbyn.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
I hope very much they do get their act together, so I can vote for them and get rid of Johnson (if he lasts that long).
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.
Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?
Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
They take both West Brom seats, three seats in Stoke, seats in walsall, Dudley and Wolverhampton, and Birmingham Northfield.
Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
They take both West Brom seats, three seats in Stoke, seats in walsall, Dudley and Wolverhampton, and Birmingham Northfield.
Did tories underperform in the West Midlands because of the ethnic minority population? Or because they have peaked in the seats they could reasonably take?
Underperform?
They gained two seats in Wolverhampton, two in West Bromwich, three in Stoke / Newcastle-u-Lyme, one in Birmingham, and almost won two Coventry seats. They also polled 68% in Cannock Chase, which was a very safe Labour seat until 2010.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
They don't usually go backwards after 9 years though.
Labour vote in 2017 was 22,202, 2019 was 15096. Seems conceivable some of those 3518 votes came from Labour (1763 voted UKIP in 2017 so that might be the other half).
But Labour lost 7106 votes, so 7107 - 3518 = 3589, which just about what the Tory vote went up by.
So I think it's fair to say that seat was lost due to a combination of Corbyn and Brexit. Both of these issues need resolving and fast. Phil Wilson said it was down to Corbyn on the doorstep.
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.
Calm down dear, you know another hissy fit is bad for your blood pressure.
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
They don't usually go backwards after 9 years though.
This was the first election since 1865 where an incumbent government increased its majority after it had decreased at the previous election.
I suggest Labour supporters spend some time in Cannock Chase. The last time Labour won a general election in 2005 the result was Lab 51%, Con 30%. The result on Thursday was Con 68%, Lab 25%. That's a 32% swing.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
They don't usually go backwards after 9 years though.
Well quite - but I'm saying Labour has a chance if it's prepared to take it. But I concede it's a slim one
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.
The problem ain't the voters. It's the members.
Too true. There is now a massive disconnect between the membership and the voter base.
Labour vote in 2017 was 22,202, 2019 was 15096. Seems conceivable some of those 3518 votes came from Labour (1763 voted UKIP in 2017 so that might be the other half).
But Labour lost 7106 votes, so 7107 - 3518 = 3589, which just about what the Tory vote went up by.
So I think it's fair to say that seat was lost due to a combination of Corbyn and Brexit. Both of these issues need resolving and fast. Phil Wilson said it was down to Corbyn on the doorstep.
It is going to take years. Momentum has to be neutralised and that is not on the horizon
Looking at this thread it amazes me 11 years on how little people understand about what it would deliver to the parts of the country not directly served by the new lines.
Poor media coverage or lack of interest in understanding what is planned?
Both. Plus a number of emotive stories about the disruption it will cause in building.
There are two Swampy-camps near Leamington Spa "protecting" ancient woodland. Must be bloody cold there tonight - and wet with it.
Good for them. All this wibble about tree planting - protecting vital habitats like ancient woodland should be a priority.
It should be protected as much as possible. But HS tracks need to be straight (ish). If woodland preservation were an absolute priority hardly any new infrastructure could be built anywhere.
I'm more concerned about cities spreading into the green belt instead of high-density development. Obviously it's cheaper, but satellite estates are usually bereft of community facilities apart from a primary school and a strip of fast-food outlets. We need to promote good quality city living as a viable lifestyle. Central Brum and Manchester look great these days - haven't been to Leeds for 30 years. I'm off to Manhattan next week. Wish I could afford to move there.
One upside to Brexit is that Northern voters have abandoned their devotion to a useless Labour party, and are trying new tastes and flavours. This can only be good for democracy, and might even be good for northern voters. Because, Brexit.
By the way this is EXACTLY what sovereignty Leavers predicted: that Brexit would pump fresh blood into our moribund body politic. And so it is.
Well, it is pumping in plenty of stuff: populism, alt-right prejudice and tactics, and a total disregard for facts and truth. Unsurprising, as there were exactly the things that the referendum was won on.
Cue the "not all leavers" protests. The dirty truth that a lot of you will have to face, even the I-voted-leave-to-increase-immigration mob, is who you have made your bed with.
An easier way to pump in some blood might be having an electoral system that actually counts your vote, some decentralisation so you have a chance to influence things closer to you, and an end to the Eton-Commons-CushyDirectorships pathway. That might a little bit too much new blood for the ruling class though...
And now I sound like a bloody Trot, despite being a pragmatic left-liberal.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud.
Corbyn failed in two attempts.
And I hope to God Labour has learned those lessons. But it is telling that you have to immediately tack to attacking Labour.
I despise them both equally, because they are both equally despicable.
But Corbyn was much more dangerous than Johnson.
And that's fine - but we were talking about Johnson.
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Labour has to win 123 seats to gain a bare majority. Or 64 seats with both the SNP and LDs as coalition partners, assuming no other changes. If Boris applies the same strategic thinking to the next 5 years that he did to the last 3 months, Labour may not govern again for a generation.
The same strategic thinking will involve hoping that Labour voters stay at home and don't bother to vote, which I'll concede is a possibility.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
After each election loss Labour has swung more to the left & lost again,most people would think that 9 years & three leaders later Labour might have got the message but apparently not.
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?
Meeks misspelled shitshow-
The biggest sideshow in History?
A farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense; The EU was and is little more than glorified trading block. Its benign malign influence was rarely felt by the average UK citizen. Brexit however now lays claim to being the “most divisive referendum in UK History”
I disagree; it is little more than the biggest sideshow in history. First Minister of Scotland has made it clear she want indyref2 happen in 2020 (little more than 5 years after the first; sore loser syndrome existed before “Remoaners” was a term)
The UK, having recently voted for its own independence is now to consider splitting itself in two.
The battle for unity on this small island of the North Atlantic is to begin again shortly.
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
Brexit is only part of a much wider culture war, which won't go away when (if?) Brexit is ever fully resolved. I've said before that the Tories are if anything a little too nice, too gentlemanly. If the US Republicans applied their methods to the UK, they would never lose an election.
And now I sound like a bloody Trot, despite being a pragmatic left-liberal.
Actually, Marxists hate Trotskyites.
For example, during the Spanish Civil War, the Communists (PCE) referred to and eventually cracked down on their supposed POUM allies as "Trotskyite-Fascists".
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
Become a tory !!!!!!!
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.
Today's Times printed the latest gossip about who might be for the high jump come the expected February reshuffle. Rees Mogg, Truss and Leadsom all on the list IIRC.
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
Become a tory !!!!!!!
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 years
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
Probably some in his partners name and maybe kids?
But the story’s a lie (he didn’t try to give it back he said “take all my money and leave me with what I’ve spent”) so the premium bonds but might be a lie too.
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
A lot of Labour voters in London are working class people living in iffy homes and working their arses off for little reward. Plenty in common with people in the north. Don't be fooled into thinking that every Labour voter in London is a hand-wringing muesli muncher in a two million quid house.
Yes, but those voters are still likely to be more socially liberal than their northern counterparts. Many poorer voters in London voted Remain after all.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
Oh dear what a sore loser.
I must admit - Boris banging on about One Nation Conservative does grate a bit with me, despite being a Tory sympathizer. He was elected as tory leader on a platform that included tax cuts for the what I would consider rich.
I'm glad he's dropped that part now, but it was a bad omen.
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 years
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.
So basically Leavers have to agree with you (“Brexit is a shut show”) and if they don’t then “they are not doing their bit”
I suggest Labour supporters spend some time in Cannock Chase. The last time Labour won a general election in 2005 the result was Lab 51%, Con 30%. The result on Thursday was Con 68%, Lab 25%. That's a 32% swing.
The 2005 to 2019 comparison is interesting across England as a whole. V similar voteshare but very different number of MPs. Obviously a part of this is the Lib Dems having a 'mare and increased Tory voteshare, but also big changes in the geographic spread and hence efficiency of the Labour vote... Twitter thread I like.
Actually worth reading the whole thing. For those that can't be bothered some highlights...I never had much confidence about what Corbyn would do to Lab's vote share, & it turned to be something v different in 2017 and 2019. But from the very beginning (& i can remember chatting to @rafaelbehr in Corbyn's earliest days) I was convinced he'd damage its distribution. Votes were bound to pile up in student towns and diverse inner-cities, where they would bring in few extra seats. At the same time they were always likely to fall away in towns and suburbs where there is more of a premium on patriotism. ... Brexit really has inflamed it. But it is deeper and more cultural than that — votes have been shifting left in more educated places, and right in less educated ones. (A point David Runciman if @TPpodcast_ has been making since the referendum https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/trump-brexit-education-gap-tearing-politics-apart …) The cultural front is going to be fraught for ANY Labour leader who wants to try and hold on to its metropolitan voters and members, while also reconnecting with all the communities it lost on Thursday
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.
Still, someone, indeed everyone who wants some kind of left of centre government before mid century, needs to tell these fools to fuck off and join the SWP where they belong.
There’s a lot of American commentary on Twitter about this election. One comment that struck me as odd was Bill Maher’s tweet. Sanders and Warren are nowhere near as ‘out there’ as Corbyn is.
Just in terms of cost, Medicare For All is a monster - I don't think Corbyn was proposing anything nearly as expensive. You could argue that on the political spectrum it's just taking America where Britain already is, but they want to do it in a country with insane medical costs, which makes the new taxing requirements pretty humongous.
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
Not really sure how to break this to you. But if you're a UK, citizen, Boris is your PM. It matters not how much of a childish strop you throw, get used to it
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
Become a tory !!!!!!!
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.
Blue labour is silly - and despite your claim that it stands for blue collar - it was all about triangulation and silliness. Like the Tory's changing their torch into a tree.
How does so-called "Blue Labour" (which is probably where Labour needs to go) bridge the gap between Labour communities in the North and London?
Become a tory !!!!!!!
Thing about Blue Labour - is that it is not a parody - A Triangulation too far.
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
The 'blue' is for blue collar, not Tory blue. A Labour party focused on working class communities, rather than gender neutral bathrooms and Israel-Palestine is exactly what we need.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 years
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
I keep saying it's a tall order - but I'm also saying this is what Labour needs to do.
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.
Still, someone, indeed everyone who wants some kind of left of centre government before mid century, needs to tell these fools to fuck off and join the SWP where they belong.
That ‘someone’ should be an individual who isn’t a hypocrite though. It should also be someone who was actually involved in an election winning machine. Ayesha talks like she wasn’t an advisor to guy who also lost an election.
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 years
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.
Yes, it's unlikely that the huge number of new members who joined for Corbyn are now going to turn around and say "we were wrong, what Labour needs is a new Blair". The only way you are going to counter that is either get an even huger number of moderates to join the party, or wait until successive failures see the far-left get bored and drift away.
To be fair it's not all of my Labour friends, but it is a couple, and they are the most politically committed (they go on marches and demos). So they are the people who will elect the new leader.
It's grim for Labour.
One of them is a smart artist in her 50s. Very well read. Phd. Etc.
She was convinced that Corbyn would win, even though I spent 20 minutes over drinks, recently, trying to show her the plentiful evidence that he was likely to lose. She just kept shaking her head and saying things like "youthquake".
Now she tells me she is in "shock".
I mean, what can you do?!
Had the same experience. Perfectly nice decent people generally - the sort of generally would be horrified at being associated with Jew baiters - are just in denial about the reality of the polling figures, and the nature of the people who are the praetorian guard of the party. They seem too intelligent to be just 'useful idiots' but that is how they seem. Feels more like fundamentalist religion to me.
Yes, it's religiosity without God. A faith.
The parallels with Leavers are obvious.
And ultra-Remainers like you. Who lose all common sense, become hysterically upset over everything, see evil heretics everywhere, and believe in miracles like the Second Coming, sorry, Referendum.
This “ultra-Remainer” has for a very long time been stating that two things are required before this country can move on: Remainers to accept that they lost and Leavers to accept that Brexit is a shitshow. Remainers are showing signs of their bit. Leavers are showing none of theirs, despite precisely none of the touted benefits of a Leave vote having emerged and many vices having crept out of the woodwork.
I thought the accepted PB description was "diehard Remainer"?
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
Thinks for a minute London Mayoral Election 2012: yup, I won a bet on that EU Ref 2016: yup, I won on that as well UK GE 2019: yup, I won on that as well
Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.
Ditto! Nice pub atmosphere today. Lots of rancour gone. During peak Brexitangst it was sometimes quite unpleasant and also very poor signal-noise ratio. This GE seems to have kicked it back into business. Good show everyone!
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 years
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.
Yes, it's unlikely that the huge number of new members who joined for Corbyn are now going to turn around and say "we were wrong, what Labour needs is a new Blair". The only way you are going to counter that is either get an even huger number of moderates to join the party, or wait until successive failures see the far-left get bored and drift away.
There is always the off chance that, if you wait long enough, the far-left will grow up
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.
Who on earth are these people?
Ayesha - former Labour advisor Ash Sarkar - works with Novara media
Betting against Boris has worked out not necessarily to his critics' advantage.
It`s easy enough to win, if you are a liar, a cheat and a fraud. The problem after that is carrying people with you.
"Boris" is not my prime minister. Listening to his hypocrisy on the steps of Number 10 was nauseating. "One nation Conservative" and all that. Words lose their meaning when he speaks them.
Sorry, Boris is your Prime Minister. That's how elections work. If your party weren't so shit, with a shit Revoke policy and shit "Prime Minister" Jo Swinson it might have all been so different.
Today's Times printed the latest gossip about who might be for the high jump come the expected February reshuffle. Rees Mogg, Truss and Leadsom all on the list IIRC.
Not all is bad then.
But there is still Javid, Raab, Hancock, IDS, and so many more.
If he really wants to be a one-nation Conservative.
Corbyn Labour seems to have suffered from many problems and overwhelmingly he is to blame for Labour's failure but I do think those that pushed a second referendum to be Labour's policy on Brexit have something to answer for too.
Many of those on the right of the party should reflect on that, just as much as the left need to reflect on their failures too.
Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.
I haven't been on line much today, trying to catch up sleep, but when I have the debate does seem to be much better. Long may it continue now the dynamics have changed
I thought it was significant when Heseltine announced they had lost and that there is not point in carrying on trying to stop Brexit
Corbyn again and again and again. But if Labour wakes up most of these voters seem like they could come back.
On what basis do you think you can magic away Corbyn and momentum then suddenly all these voters will flock back in five, more likely 10 years
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
It seems likely Labour will waste the next five years by electing a younger Corbyn.
Yes, it's unlikely that the huge number of new members who joined for Corbyn are now going to turn around and say "we were wrong, what Labour needs is a new Blair". The only way you are going to counter that is either get an even huger number of moderates to join the party, or wait until successive failures see the far-left get bored and drift away.
There is always the off chance that, if you wait long enough, the far-left will grow up
I wasn't suggesting that they will grow up, but maybe they will get bored and find another vehicle for the inevitable proletarian revolution.
About halfway down there's an interview with Phil Wilson.
I am absolutely convinced that if Keir Starmer had stood on the 2017 manifesto it would have been a minority Labour Government at the worst. But because so many of us were too stupid to see what was happening and too arrogant to listen, Labour is going to climb what should have been a few seats, now being 60+.
We've really cocked this up, I think it's difficult to understate how badly.
And what would the Brexit stance have been? People's vote wouldn't have gone down great with the Northern Heartlands. You can talk about how badly Jezza played, but his Brexit stance was closer to those voters than Kier Starmer's.
Just before I vanish for the evening I'd like to say that today has been a really good day of discussion on PB. Thanks everyone.
Ditto! Nice pub atmosphere today. Lots of rancour gone. During peak Brexitangst it was sometimes quite unpleasant and also very poor signal-noise ratio. This GE seems to have kicked it back into business. Good show everyone!
Yes, I think the GE result has cleared the air. Boris has to delivery an optimal Brexit/EU settlement now. There's no room for any more silliness.
Can’t really take Ayesha seriously when she was busy palling around with Sarkar, taking selfies with her etc. Ash Sarkar was a communist back then, but Ayesha was still happy to associate with her. Her retweet of Guido also screams ‘people I don’t like’ shouldn’t be given a platform.
Still, someone, indeed everyone who wants some kind of left of centre government before mid century, needs to tell these fools to fuck off and join the SWP where they belong.
That ‘someone’ should be an individual who isn’t a hypocrite though. It should also be someone who was actually involved in an election winning machine. Ayesha talks like she wasn’t an advisor to guy who also lost an election.
What do you mean? She didn't advise Corbyn so has no idea what he was up to or you would expect that someone who talks like she does couldn't possibly have advised Corbyn - too posh, too clever, too centrist?
A farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense; The EU was and is little more than glorified trading block. Its benign malign influence was rarely felt by the average UK citizen. Brexit however now lays claim to being the “most divisive referendum in UK History”
I disagree; it is little more than the biggest sideshow in history. First Minister of Scotland has made it clear she want indyref2 happen in 2020 (little more than 5 years after the first; sore loser syndrome existed before “Remoaners” was a term)
The UK, having recently voted for its own independence is now to consider splitting itself in two.
The battle for unity on this small island of the North Atlantic is to begin again shortly.
Are you ready?
The United Kingdom is a gonner, I am afraid. I will turn up at the polling place and vote No again, but I will be like the man in 1923 mourning the loss of the Hapsburg Empire. Brexit is the ascendancy of English nationalism, a strain that is as welcome in Scotland as ebola. English nationalists don't hide their lack of interest either in other bits of the supposedly United Kingdom. You may be right, the EU itself maybe is the sideshow. The ending of the Union as a consequence of Brexit is the big one. Northern Ireland will probably be out first. The Northern Ireland protocol that Johnson signed up to in October appears to guarantee that. Will Scotland hang around long after Northern Ireland goes?
About halfway down there's an interview with Phil Wilson.
I am absolutely convinced that if Keir Starmer had stood on the 2017 manifesto it would have been a minority Labour Government at the worst. But because so many of us were too stupid to see what was happening and too arrogant to listen, Labour is going to climb what should have been a few seats, now being 60+.
We've really cocked this up, I think it's difficult to understate how badly.
And what would the Brexit stance have been? People's vote wouldn't have gone down great with the Northern Heartlands. You can talk about how badly Jezza played, but his Brexit stance was closer to those voters than Kier Starmer's.
That is a fair point.
Fundamentally Corbyn would have lost less badly if he'd stuck to the original Brexit policy. His changing and shifting fundamentally validated what many people thought was true about him, i.e. he could not be trusted.
But the people saying this were in many cases, on the right of the party (though to be fair people like Thornberry were arguing the same) and so Corbyn can't be entirely blamed for that one. Although not showing leadership means he can be.
It seems like the whole Labour Party is pretty divided over multiple issues - and they really need an Attlee to bring them all together. Perhaps that means being ruthless and kicking out Momentum and so on but I am unconvinced that sort of person exists. And my fear is that nobody is pragmatic enough to see there are elements of 2017 that they should take forward but also elements they shouldn't and also elements of Blairism that they should take forward and also elements they shouldn't.
Of course, if David M hadn't gone away we might have that pragmatism now. But the most pragmatic people seem to be Starmer, Rayner and Nandy, Kinnock at present. The other pragmatists just lost their seats.
From those I think Kinnock probably is the best, having argued for Brexit for three years and being a decent communicator - but I fear he might get attacks about nepotism. And I don't think the members will go for him.
Today's Times printed the latest gossip about who might be for the high jump come the expected February reshuffle. Rees Mogg, Truss and Leadsom all on the list IIRC.
Not all is bad then.
But there is still Javid, Raab, Hancock, IDS, and so many more.
If he really wants to be a one-nation Conservative.
If he gets more Remainers or soft Brexiteers in, it might indicate his direction of travel re Brexit
Comments
You'll have to hope and pray that Labour fucks themselves over - because if they get their act together (and I concede it's unlikely), Johnson is going to have real troubles next time around.
Ouch.
8/12 is not bad - perhaps I will keep playing
But as you admit it seems unlikely.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/dec/14/man-handed-193000-in-sort-code-error-says-he-tried-to-give-it-back
What more did you want?
I expect Boris will become a leading climate change supporter and the UK will be at the front of the debate
Now that would be ironic but do not be surprised
And the flying will contribute to global warming and all.
They gained two seats in Wolverhampton, two in West Bromwich, three in Stoke / Newcastle-u-Lyme, one in Birmingham, and almost won two Coventry seats. They also polled 68% in Cannock Chase, which was a very safe Labour seat until 2010.
That isn't underperforming.
But if somehow Labour gets its act together and gets a swing of around 5.5%, they can get a minority Government. Any competent opposition should be able to do that after 14 years.
Jess Phillips and Lisa Nandy will get the Cooper/Kendall 2015 treatment and we'll end up with a lefty drone as Labour leader again.
(You'll have to type the link in manually)
Sedgefield for instance.
Labour vote in 2017 was 22,202, 2019 was 15096. Seems conceivable some of those 3518 votes came from Labour (1763 voted UKIP in 2017 so that might be the other half).
But Labour lost 7106 votes, so 7107 - 3518 = 3589, which just about what the Tory vote went up by.
So I think it's fair to say that seat was lost due to a combination of Corbyn and Brexit. Both of these issues need resolving and fast. Phil Wilson said it was down to Corbyn on the doorstep.
HO! HO! HO!
It is a very, very dramatic result.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannock_Chase_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
I'm more concerned about cities spreading into the green belt instead of high-density development. Obviously it's cheaper, but satellite estates are usually bereft of community facilities apart from a primary school and a strip of fast-food outlets. We need to promote good quality city living as a viable lifestyle. Central Brum and Manchester look great these days - haven't been to Leeds for 30 years. I'm off to Manhattan next week. Wish I could afford to move there.
Portillo was Defence Secretary and possible leadership candidate back in 1997.
As for what labour should do... Well there are plenty of socialist governments across the world - they should copy whatever they did.
Cue the "not all leavers" protests. The dirty truth that a lot of you will have to face, even the I-voted-leave-to-increase-immigration mob, is who you have made your bed with.
An easier way to pump in some blood might be having an electoral system that actually counts your vote, some decentralisation so you have a chance to influence things closer to you, and an end to the Eton-Commons-CushyDirectorships pathway. That might a little bit too much new blood for the ruling class though...
And now I sound like a bloody Trot, despite being a pragmatic left-liberal.
After each election loss Labour has swung more to the left & lost again,most people would think that 9 years & three leaders later Labour might have got the message but apparently not.
One more heave!
The biggest sideshow in History?
A farce of a democracy and a large bureaucratic expense; The EU was and is little more than glorified trading block. Its benign malign influence was rarely felt by the average UK citizen. Brexit however now lays claim to being the “most divisive referendum in UK History”
I disagree; it is little more than the biggest sideshow in history.
First Minister of Scotland has made it clear she want indyref2 happen in 2020 (little more than 5 years after the first; sore loser syndrome existed before “Remoaners” was a term)
The UK, having recently voted for its own independence is now to consider splitting itself in two.
The battle for unity on this small island of the North Atlantic is to begin again shortly.
Are you ready?
Just as the tories can win in rural Sussex and Redcar Labour don't have to make a false choice between London and winning back the north.
For example, during the Spanish Civil War, the Communists (PCE) referred to and eventually cracked down on their supposed POUM allies as "Trotskyite-Fascists".
Oh dear what a sore loser.
I remember cheerleading for Jon Cruddas for the leadership. We need a northern version of him.
Boris will not be sitting back, he will be very pro active in the north and of course Brexit will not feature in 5 years time
It is impossible for anyone to say where the UK will be in 5 years but the idea stale socialism will appeal once Corbyn has gone is for the birds. A new centre left party is needed that takes pride in the country and promotes business and itself
We have one example of this already and Boris has just now parked his tanks on that lawn.
Of course the other example is Nicola Sturgeon but she solely promotes Scotland
But the story’s a lie (he didn’t try to give it back he said “take all my money and leave me with what I’ve spent”) so the premium bonds but might be a lie too.
I'm glad he's dropped that part now, but it was a bad omen.
https://twitter.com/prospect_clark/status/1205785072244269056
Actually worth reading the whole thing. For those that can't be bothered some highlights...I never had much confidence about what Corbyn would do to Lab's vote share, & it turned to be something v different in 2017 and 2019. But from the very beginning (& i can remember chatting to @rafaelbehr in Corbyn's earliest days) I was convinced he'd damage its distribution. Votes were bound to pile up in student towns and diverse inner-cities, where they would bring in few extra seats. At the same time they were always likely to fall away in towns and suburbs where there is more of a premium on patriotism. ... Brexit really has inflamed it. But it is deeper and more cultural than that — votes have been shifting left in more educated places, and right in less educated ones. (A point David Runciman if @TPpodcast_ has been making since the referendum https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/trump-brexit-education-gap-tearing-politics-apart …) The cultural front is going to be fraught for ANY Labour leader who wants to try and hold on to its metropolitan voters and members, while also reconnecting with all the communities it lost on Thursday
If so, he is badly needed nearer the action.
London Mayoral Election 2012: yup, I won a bet on that
EU Ref 2016: yup, I won on that as well
UK GE 2019: yup, I won on that as well
Pause.
It's OK: everybody else hates me too...
Something afoot?
https://twitter.com/liamyoung/status/1205857976109731841
Ash Sarkar - works with Novara media
But....
I probably shouldn't be giving Labour such good advice now I am officially a PB Tory (even if I did go eenie meenie mineee mo)
But there is still Javid, Raab, Hancock, IDS, and so many more.
If he really wants to be a one-nation Conservative.
Many of those on the right of the party should reflect on that, just as much as the left need to reflect on their failures too.
Really the whole party is fucked.
I thought it was significant when Heseltine announced they had lost and that there is not point in carrying on trying to stop Brexit
I am sorry. Really.
Fundamentally Corbyn would have lost less badly if he'd stuck to the original Brexit policy. His changing and shifting fundamentally validated what many people thought was true about him, i.e. he could not be trusted.
But the people saying this were in many cases, on the right of the party (though to be fair people like Thornberry were arguing the same) and so Corbyn can't be entirely blamed for that one. Although not showing leadership means he can be.
It seems like the whole Labour Party is pretty divided over multiple issues - and they really need an Attlee to bring them all together. Perhaps that means being ruthless and kicking out Momentum and so on but I am unconvinced that sort of person exists. And my fear is that nobody is pragmatic enough to see there are elements of 2017 that they should take forward but also elements they shouldn't and also elements of Blairism that they should take forward and also elements they shouldn't.
Of course, if David M hadn't gone away we might have that pragmatism now. But the most pragmatic people seem to be Starmer, Rayner and Nandy, Kinnock at present. The other pragmatists just lost their seats.
From those I think Kinnock probably is the best, having argued for Brexit for three years and being a decent communicator - but I fear he might get attacks about nepotism. And I don't think the members will go for him.