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  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    alb1on said:

    Pulpstar said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Putney
    Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1198318017869996032

    Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
    If the Lib Dems vote tactically, Labour can have that one

    I can't even do Maths, ignore me
    I don't think you need to be able to do maths to know what 51% means
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,435
    nichomar said:



    Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.

    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
    Where did that come from? I'm in coalition with the LibDems - we consult every few days on policy, and also on keeping the local exchange of leaflets reasonably civilised. I suppose my comment above was a bit sardonic, but it wasn't meant to be nasty, sorry. I assume the leaflets were printed before the campaign - they'd probably have worded them a bit differently if they were writing them today. There are reasons why people might well want to vote LibDem in many constituencies, but I would not think that Jo Swinson's leadership was, in retrospect, the strongest card in their deck.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    Our canvassing code for a Tory contact is T
    For Lab its L
    LD is C that i believe may be Collaborators not C***s

    So how is the canvassing going?
    Does it look like 2017 again?
    If you want to answer, answer truthfully, we try to make good bets not influence the election results, the betting markets are offering good odds for a Hung Parliament and I wonder if it's time to bet on it or wait for more polls.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,017
    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    Floater said:
    I did a double take at the url..... Not been on the 14 pints again has he, I mused?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    Artist said:

    Labour seem to be going hard at Hastings & Rye. I think it's probably their best hope outside London.

    Trying to capitalise on the Rudderless Tories?
  • Floater said:

    GIN1138 said:

    They also sent them to other constituencies saying it was between the Lib Dems and the Conservatives, urging Labour voters to vote LD.

    Are those other constituencies actually Con/LD marginals or are they Con/Lab marginals like this one?
    https://twitter.com/deanvelani/status/1200480030461218816
    In the most recent election in Chipping Barnet, on May 23rd. the LDs were 11% ahead of the tories and 13% ahead of LAB.

    When you're in a hole etc... ;)
    It does look to have been a bit of a silly thing to do.
    If this letter has the effect of persuading a few hundred voters to switch from labour to libdem then surely it just increases the chance of Con taking the seat. So irrespective of the questionable premise for the argument, I just dont see the point. Unless CCHQ produced it. In which case its genius.
    If CCHQ paid for that one, then we can only assume that Labour paid for the Warrington ones. Perhaps we should all vote Lib Dem due to their negotiating skills. :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    alb1on said:

    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Chipping Barnet, Chingford, Hastings, Southampton Itchen, Pudsey, Norwich North, Broxtowe, Telford, Hendon.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
    I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north.
    Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
    Shame about Telford. Lucy Allan is one of the most vile MPs in the House.
    Yes, forging a death threat to herself was despicable even by politicians’ standards.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526

    alb1on said:

    Pulpstar said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Putney
    Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1198318017869996032

    Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
    If the Lib Dems vote tactically, Labour can have that one

    I can't even do Maths, ignore me
    One party getting over 50% does tend to indicate tactical voting is something of an indulgence......
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    IanB2 said:

    alb1on said:

    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Chipping Barnet, Chingford, Hastings, Southampton Itchen, Pudsey, Norwich North, Broxtowe, Telford, Hendon.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
    I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north.
    Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
    Shame about Telford. Lucy Allan is one of the most vile MPs in the House.
    Yes, forging a death threat to herself was despicable even by politicians’ standards.
    What?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    You’ve been predicting disaster for PC since the beginning, yet what objective evidence there is suggests they might even make gains.
  • Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.

    That has generally been my experience too.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    alb1on said:

    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Chipping Barnet, Chingford, Hastings, Southampton Itchen, Pudsey, Norwich North, Broxtowe, Telford, Hendon.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
    I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north.
    Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
    Shame about Telford. Lucy Allan is one of the most vile MPs in the House.
    Yes, forging a death threat to herself was despicable even by politicians’ standards.
    What?
    2015, about the same time she was exposed for leaving threatening messages on the answering machine of a staff member on sick leave. She really is a revolting piece of work. The Tory version of Jared O'Mara.
  • llefllef Posts: 298

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
  • Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.

    That has generally been my experience too.
    Mine too.

    The LD activists are the most unpleasant.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    alb1on said:

    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Chipping Barnet, Chingford, Hastings, Southampton Itchen, Pudsey, Norwich North, Broxtowe, Telford, Hendon.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
    I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north.
    Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
    Shame about Telford. Lucy Allan is one of the most vile MPs in the House.
    Yes, forging a death threat to herself was despicable even by politicians’ standards.
    What?
    From WP: In December 2015 Allan posted on Facebook an email she said she received from a constituent; the email was edited and ended with the words "unless you die". Allan later acknowledged that she had added those words to the email (saying she had taken them from a different email) – leading to accusations of her faking a death threat.[30][31][32] Allan deactivated her Facebook and Twitter accounts following the incident.
  • Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?

    One is literally true but substantively untrue, the other is literally untrue but substantively true.
    I don't either is true. The Tories are not going to "get Brexit done". Brexit doesn't end when they claim it does. They are lying.
    Yes it does. What happens afterwards is post-Brexit. AKA Taking Back Control.
  • nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that

    Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.

    Get Brexit done means what????
    I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.

    The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
    They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
    Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
    They do, affordable spending plans too.
    5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
    Better than your lunatic leader who is as bad as Johnson and will just trash the country in a differentbway
    You are going down in the polls faster than a "dancer" at Spearmint Rhino
    Did everyone see Panelbase today? 8% lead for Con (Con 42, Lab 34)

    Average for the 5 polls so far this week:
    8.5% (was 13.0% for week-ending 24th)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I miss listening to Leanne’s voice in these debates
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    These letters seem to be appearing all over the place

    https://twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    On a lot of what he said tonight, Price is right.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Swinson's biggest error in the debate this evening was her honesty.

    No, honesty is what is needed now. We have had enough of lies.
    True.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 17,549
    edited November 2019
    speedy2 said:

    Our canvassing code for a Tory contact is T
    For Lab its L
    LD is C that i believe may be Collaborators not C***s

    So how is the canvassing going?
    Does it look like 2017 again?
    If you want to answer, answer truthfully, we try to make good bets not influence the election results, the betting markets are offering good odds for a Hung Parliament and I wonder if it's time to bet on it or wait for more polls.
    I said earlier worse than 2017 but not by much.

    I am on HP at 4.0 which i think i will definitely be able to cash out at a profit

    I posted a Betting Post earlier based on conversations with Bolsover colleagues who have firmed from quietly confident to we will be ok. The Beast had been 5/4 but was 6/5 when i posted earlier

    I also noted canvassers are not always right and the MRP had the Tories ahead. I think next MRP will have it as a coin toss and I think Skinner wins by 2k on the day

    BUT DYOR

    I have personally done no canvassing due to health issues so all is 2nd hand but from multiple workers
  • nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that

    Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.

    Get Brexit done means what????
    I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.

    The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
    They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
    Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
    They do, affordable spending plans too.
    5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
    Better than your lunatic leader who is as bad as Johnson and will just trash the country in a differentbway
    You are going down in the polls faster than a "dancer" at Spearmint Rhino
    Did everyone see Panelbase today? 8% lead for Con (Con 42, Lab 34)

    Average for the 5 polls so far this week:
    8.5% (was 13.0% for week-ending 24th)
    Saw it.

    We're headed for a Hung Parliament if we see any polls with lower leads this weekend
  • https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1200527353551687682

    Anyone know if this is going up for the 18-34s?
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    These letters seem to be appearing all over the place

    https://twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    I thought I was reading Jacob's bio when I looked her up. Dodgy fund manager with nine children!
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    IanB2 said:

    Artist said:

    Labour seem to be going hard at Hastings & Rye. I think it's probably their best hope outside London.

    Trying to capitalise on the Rudderless Tories?
    Rudd damaged herself by her bad national debate performance in 2017 (although it was May's fault), the terror attacks in that election hurt her standing too. I placed a bet against her in 2017 and lost it in the recounts.
    The Conservatives may do better without her, but it still should be a prime Labour target.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    nichomar said:

    Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that

    Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.

    Get Brexit done means what????
    I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.

    The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
    They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
    Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
    They do, affordable spending plans too.
    5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
    Better than your lunatic leader who is as bad as Johnson and will just trash the country in a differentbway
    You are going down in the polls faster than a "dancer" at Spearmint Rhino
    Did everyone see Panelbase today? 8% lead for Con (Con 42, Lab 34)

    Average for the 5 polls so far this week:
    8.5% (was 13.0% for week-ending 24th)
    Yes - discussed this morning. The tories on here seem unperturbed. It's all 'factored in,' Boris is a 'marvel,' Labour Leavers 'don't care about the environment,' and 'MRP says it's all fine so it must be.'

  • alb1on said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    alb1on said:

    speedy2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Chipping Barnet, Chingford, Hastings, Southampton Itchen, Pudsey, Norwich North, Broxtowe, Telford, Hendon.

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
    I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north.
    Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
    Shame about Telford. Lucy Allan is one of the most vile MPs in the House.
    Yes, forging a death threat to herself was despicable even by politicians’ standards.
    What?
    2015, about the same time she was exposed for leaving threatening messages on the answering machine of a staff member on sick leave. She really is a revolting piece of work. The Tory version of Jared O'Mara.
    Ah yes, I remember the Telford by-election, which UKIP were going to sweep, that never happened.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,733
    IanB2 said:

    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I miss listening to Leanne’s voice in these debates
    If you wanted an irritating voice, didn't RLB do the trick for you?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    speedy2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Artist said:

    Labour seem to be going hard at Hastings & Rye. I think it's probably their best hope outside London.

    Trying to capitalise on the Rudderless Tories?
    Rudd damaged herself by her bad national debate performance in 2017 (although it was May's fault), the terror attacks in that election hurt her standing too. I placed a bet against her in 2017 and lost it in the recounts.
    The Conservatives may do better without her, but it still should be a prime Labour target.
    Word I hear from the blues on Hastings is "quietly confident".
  • speedy2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Artist said:

    Labour seem to be going hard at Hastings & Rye. I think it's probably their best hope outside London.

    Trying to capitalise on the Rudderless Tories?
    Rudd damaged herself by her bad national debate performance in 2017 (although it was May's fault), the terror attacks in that election hurt her standing too. I placed a bet against her in 2017 and lost it in the recounts.
    The Conservatives may do better without her, but it still should be a prime Labour target.
    Labour really should take her seat.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927
    alb1on said:

    I don't quite see why Mike Smithson has to put up with Labour & Tory party supporters questioning his integrity.

    I mean, the Labour & Tory parties are running extremely duplicitous campaigns themselves.

    When you are clean, you have earned the right to comment on other people's dirt. But if you are covered in ordure yourself ... then you should shut up.

    They are also repeatedly lying by suggesting the letters are only going to Lab/Con marginals and, as I pointed out in the last thread, the letters have also arrived in Guildford - the archetypal LD/Con marginal.
    Don’t be daft

    Someone asked whether they were going to similar constituencies. @Richard_Tyndall gave one more example

    N=2 doesn’t equal “repeatedly lying”
  • These letters seem to be appearing all over the place

    https://twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    Indeed, and this is quite some constituent to be commenting!
  • Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.

    That has generally been my experience too.
    Mine too.

    The LD activists are the most unpleasant.
    No we're not. We're a very friendly bunch indeed.
  • alb1on said:

    These letters seem to be appearing all over the place

    https://twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    I thought I was reading Jacob's bio when I looked her up. Dodgy fund manager with nine children!
    Disgraceful comment. This lady was widely touted as a possible Governor of the BOE a month or 2 back.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.

    That has generally been my experience too.
    Mine too.

    The LD activists are the most unpleasant.
    Agree. That said, had a lovely chat for a few hours with the LibDem teller at the recent Torbay by-election, But he had only joined recently, after decades of being a Labour man. (He's Jewish, if you were wondering why....)
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Pulpstar said:

    Swinson's biggest error in the debate this evening was her honesty.

    Did you notice she junked the revoke policy, it’s now unless form government the policy is confirmatory vote. It probably was all along, but not as it was sold by PM candidate Swinson.

    Significant? It now means LD and labour brexit policy now 4/5ths the same?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,017
    IanB2 said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    You’ve been predicting disaster for PC since the beginning, yet what objective evidence there is suggests they might even make gains.
    I doubt Plaid Cymru will make gains -- they will do well to come out with 4 seats.

    I think Ceredigion is very vulnerable. Remarkably, Plaid Cymru took Ceredigion in 2017 even though their share of the vote dropped. It is just that the LibDems dropped more. I'll be pleased if Plaid Cymru retain Ceredigion, but I expect they will lose it.

    In Arfon, I expected the Labour candidate to be Mary Clarke -- who I think would have been likely to take the seat. But, rather late, Mary Clarke stood down for health reasons, and Labour's replacement does not strike me as so dangerous.

    Ynys Mon is completely unpredictable. I'd probably make the Tories favourite, although I have no inside knowledge.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,916
    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I quite liked her. What did she do wrong?
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited November 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Putney
    Certainly Baxter has it close with the Tories winning 38% of the vote with Labour on 35.7%. meanwhile the bookies don't seem to have a clue with Skybet offering 15/8 against the Tories, while Unibet offer a seemingly generous 7/2.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.

    That has generally been my experience too.
    Mine too.

    The LD activists are the most unpleasant.
    No we're not. We're a very friendly bunch indeed.
    With each other, maybe.

    Well, until there's a top job in the offing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    egg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Swinson's biggest error in the debate this evening was her honesty.

    Did you notice she junked the revoke policy, it’s now unless form government the policy is confirmatory vote. It probably was all along, but not as it was sold by PM candidate Swinson.

    Significant? It now means LD and labour brexit policy now 4/5ths the same?
    It was, all along. Still doesn’t make it a sensible move, however.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,526
    edited November 2019
    Are Tiptree going to be jammy?

    EDIT: No.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    speedy2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Artist said:

    Labour seem to be going hard at Hastings & Rye. I think it's probably their best hope outside London.

    Trying to capitalise on the Rudderless Tories?
    Rudd damaged herself by her bad national debate performance in 2017 (although it was May's fault), the terror attacks in that election hurt her standing too. I placed a bet against her in 2017 and lost it in the recounts.
    The Conservatives may do better without her, but it still should be a prime Labour target.
    Word I hear from the blues on Hastings is "quietly confident".
    Well if the Conservatives can't take Bolsover and Labour can't take Hastings then it should be back to square one, another election.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539
    viewcode said:

    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I quite liked her. What did she do wrong?
    Nothing. I don’t remember anything she said, but it always sounded good.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,017
    viewcode said:

    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I quite liked her. What did she do wrong?
    She was completely uninterested in Wales, and in particular the Welsh working-class constituents whose interests she was elected to safeguard and promote.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    egg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Swinson's biggest error in the debate this evening was her honesty.

    Did you notice she junked the revoke policy, it’s now unless form government the policy is confirmatory vote. It probably was all along, but not as it was sold by PM candidate Swinson.

    Significant? It now means LD and labour brexit policy now 4/5ths the same?
    To be fair, my understanding of the Lib Dem position throughout the campaign has been Revoke if they win outright, support a second referendum if they don't. One can obviously argue that this effectively amounts to second referendum, because the notion of the Lib Dems forming a majority Government following this election is and always has been ridiculous, but nevertheless there has been no change.

    The Lib Dems pretend they won't back a Labour minority Govt headed by Corbyn, but you have to suspect that this is a lie intended to try to keep their soft Tory Remain voters onboard. If a Labour leader were to offer them exactly what they wanted on a second referendum, you have to suspect that they wouldn't be too picky about who that person was.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Foxy said:

    alb1on said:

    Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.

    Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
    A great line!
    Although it was U.K. regional accents, they would still have their own regional accents, and Zhukov was something of an outsider his periods in the politburo, so the accent thing and portrayal of Zhukov sort of had a ring of truth about it to me. The leaving Joe on the floor, the not looking in face as ringing buzzer under desk very historically accurate.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,435



    My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.

    That has generally been my experience too.
    Not mine. Pleasantness and the reverse are IMO not correlated with political opinions.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 2,360

    egg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Swinson's biggest error in the debate this evening was her honesty.

    Did you notice she junked the revoke policy, it’s now unless form government the policy is confirmatory vote. It probably was all along, but not as it was sold by PM candidate Swinson.

    Significant? It now means LD and labour brexit policy now 4/5ths the same?
    To be fair, my understanding of the Lib Dem position throughout the campaign has been Revoke if they win outright, support a second referendum if they don't. One can obviously argue that this effectively amounts to second referendum, because the notion of the Lib Dems forming a majority Government following this election is and always has been ridiculous, but nevertheless there has been no change.

    The Lib Dems pretend they won't back a Labour minority Govt headed by Corbyn, but you have to suspect that this is a lie intended to try to keep their soft Tory Remain voters onboard. If a Labour leader were to offer them exactly what they wanted on a second referendum, you have to suspect that they wouldn't be too picky about who that person was.
    Vote Lib Dem, get Corbyn.

    That is the message the Tories need to hammer home as they head into the home straight.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    At least two on the panel think retaining and using nuclear weapons M.A.D though RLB didn’t say it with her eyes when she said it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,916

    viewcode said:

    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I quite liked her. What did she do wrong?
    She was completely uninterested in Wales, and in particular the Welsh working-class constituents whose interests she was elected to safeguard and promote.
    Ah. I did not know that, thank you.
  • alb1on said:

    Pulpstar said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Putney
    Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1198318017869996032

    Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
    If the Lib Dems vote tactically, Labour can have that one

    I can't even do Maths, ignore me
    One party getting over 50% does tend to indicate tactical voting is something of an indulgence......
    YouGov MRP has it 43:40 to the Conservatives, close enough to be interesting.
  • kyf_100 said:

    egg said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Swinson's biggest error in the debate this evening was her honesty.

    Did you notice she junked the revoke policy, it’s now unless form government the policy is confirmatory vote. It probably was all along, but not as it was sold by PM candidate Swinson.

    Significant? It now means LD and labour brexit policy now 4/5ths the same?
    To be fair, my understanding of the Lib Dem position throughout the campaign has been Revoke if they win outright, support a second referendum if they don't. One can obviously argue that this effectively amounts to second referendum, because the notion of the Lib Dems forming a majority Government following this election is and always has been ridiculous, but nevertheless there has been no change.

    The Lib Dems pretend they won't back a Labour minority Govt headed by Corbyn, but you have to suspect that this is a lie intended to try to keep their soft Tory Remain voters onboard. If a Labour leader were to offer them exactly what they wanted on a second referendum, you have to suspect that they wouldn't be too picky about who that person was.
    Vote Lib Dem, get Corbyn.

    That is the message the Tories need to hammer home as they head into the home straight.
    But most Lib Dem voters would prefer a Corbyn Government (if it meant stopping Brexit) according to polls I've seen
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927
    speedy2 said:

    Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why.
    The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.

    That’s it!

    She’s comes across like a head girl at a minor public school. Very earnest and a bit of a goodie goodie but utterly conventional and uninspired
  • alb1on said:

    Pulpstar said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Putney
    Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1198318017869996032

    Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
    Talking of F&GG Labours first leaflet came today along with a CON newspaper and letter and a LD newspaper, postcard and MS letter. I'm starting to feel sorry for the postie!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,539

    alb1on said:

    Pulpstar said:

    speedy2 said:

    I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017.
    In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
    Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?

    Putney
    Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1198318017869996032

    Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
    Talking of F&GG Labours first leaflet came today along with a CON newspaper and letter and a LD newspaper, postcard and MS letter. I'm starting to feel sorry for the postie!
    Don’t - the deal they have for delivering election material is extremely generous.
  • funkhauserfunkhauser Posts: 325
    edited November 2019

    nichomar said:

    Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that

    Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.

    Get Brexit done means what????
    I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.

    The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
    They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?

    What is the Lib Dem policy on tuition fees?

    Promise to scrap them & if then triple them if they end up in coalition?

    We all remember the personally signed pledges & promises from each of their 60 or so MP's in 2010 to scrap tuition fees.

  • Charles said:

    speedy2 said:

    Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why.
    The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.

    That’s it!

    She’s comes across like a head girl at a minor public school. Very earnest and a bit of a goodie goodie but utterly conventional and uninspired
    I think the problem with Jo Swinson is that I don't believe anything she says. She seems to go with the wind.
  • I wonder if the LDs will ever return to the high points of the 2000s
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,916
    I am on a train. It was only ten minutes late. It is half-empty, no drunks, nobody gobbing off, and I'm sitting next to the heater. I have warm pants, a book, and an Alpro Greek style strawberry soya yoghurt. Life is goooooood.... :)
  • llefllef Posts: 298
    viewcode said:

    llef said:

    llef said:



    Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..

    http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/

    Plaid Cymru in Blaenau Gwent have similarly been riven -- the candidate who did so well in the Welsh Assembly election (Nigel Copner) then left the party

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44929356

    And there are similar ructions in Cardiff West over Neil McEvoy (who I like but is a polarising figure).

    Basically, Plaid Cymru have screwed up all their possible target seats (Leanne's fault more than Adam's).
    Leanne Wood was a hideous embarrassment as leader of Plaid, Adam Price is a huge improvement.
    I quite liked her. What did she do wrong?
    She came across to me as being not very bright, (I'm being charitable here) and her only response to any problem, any issue, was to spend more money on it.

    So when Corbyn came along her goose was cooked, as you cant outspend Jeremy Corbyn.

    Adam Price appears to have at least thought about the deep-seated problems facing Wales, and accepts that at least some of them are of our own-making.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,927
    nichomar said:

    nunu2 said:

    Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?

    NHS up for sale, no contest. Because it simply isn't.
    Well I’m afraid bits of the NHS have been up for sale for years, whilst I can understand none medical supply services such as laundry, catering and cleaning if properly managed are acceptable, mental health therapy and other such services have been ‘outsourced’ so I’m afraid it is being sold off bit by bit without you noticing. Additionally are there any local authority care homes left or have BUPA and Anchor cornered the market ?
    Sweden has a great healthcare system

    It’s private
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,042

    Charles said:

    speedy2 said:

    Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why.
    The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.

    That’s it!

    She’s comes across like a head girl at a minor public school. Very earnest and a bit of a goodie goodie but utterly conventional and uninspired
    I think the problem with Jo Swinson is that I don't believe anything she says. She seems to go with the wind.
    Like adopting a flexible position on Brexit?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    speedy2 said:

    speedy2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Artist said:

    Labour seem to be going hard at Hastings & Rye. I think it's probably their best hope outside London.

    Trying to capitalise on the Rudderless Tories?
    Rudd damaged herself by her bad national debate performance in 2017 (although it was May's fault), the terror attacks in that election hurt her standing too. I placed a bet against her in 2017 and lost it in the recounts.
    The Conservatives may do better without her, but it still should be a prime Labour target.
    Word I hear from the blues on Hastings is "quietly confident".
    Well if the Conservatives can't take Bolsover and Labour can't take Hastings then it should be back to square one, another election.
    Hastings is Labour target number 7, and three of the six above it are SNP-held. If Labour can't even take Hastings then their chances of making significant gains would seem fairly slender.

    Bolsover is Tory target number 70. If the Conservatives can hold or recapture everything they won in 2017 then (allowing for Sinn Fein, etc.) they'll only need about four gains for a working majority of one. Even if they take heavy losses in Scotland and ship half-a-dozen Remainian seats to the Lib Dems as well, they'd still only need around 20 gains elsewhere to get to the same position.

    At this juncture, therefore, the Tories' chances of making the progress they need to make do seem rather greater than those of Labour thwarting them, let alone making net advances of their own.

    BUT - there are still nearly two weeks to go...
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,266

    Charles said:

    speedy2 said:

    Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why.
    The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.

    That’s it!

    She’s comes across like a head girl at a minor public school. Very earnest and a bit of a goodie goodie but utterly conventional and uninspired
    I think the problem with Jo Swinson is that I don't believe anything she says. She seems to go with the wind.
    That is hardly unique to Jo Swinson. Name me a frontline politician you do believe.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    nico67 said:

    Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .

    Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .

    That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
    Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
    It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
    Yes I do believe it, so long as there is a healthy Tory majority. We will be out, we will calmly negotiate and implement a subsequent deal to follow the transition which won't be a very big argument (because the Tories will have a healthy majority to implement it) and nobody will be talking about Brexit.
    Well that is what the Tories are campaigning on, Nicely succinctly put by you, and the voters believe you Thommo, that a Boris win and brexit brexit brexit will be out their lives for ever. From February they think.

    It’s a lie. Another campaign won on a lie.

    And the opposition parties are beginning to grapple with the lie now, half way through the campaign with lots of don’t knows still out there.
    Brexit will be out of their lives from February. We will be out. Remain will not be a thing anymore.
    🙂 I think the games up Thommo
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    The debate... yawn.. Swansea V Fulham much more entertaining.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    viewcode said:

    I am on a train. It was only ten minutes late. It is half-empty, no drunks, nobody gobbing off, and I'm sitting next to the heater. I have warm pants, a book, and an Alpro Greek style strawberry soya yoghurt. Life is goooooood.... :)

    Which country are you in again?
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,042

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    Perhaps they also regard the LibDems in general and Swinson in particular of being deeply undemocratic.
    Never mind. Labour will win another election one day. Then they can sell the working class down the river once more.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Charles said:

    alb1on said:

    I don't quite see why Mike Smithson has to put up with Labour & Tory party supporters questioning his integrity.

    I mean, the Labour & Tory parties are running extremely duplicitous campaigns themselves.

    When you are clean, you have earned the right to comment on other people's dirt. But if you are covered in ordure yourself ... then you should shut up.

    They are also repeatedly lying by suggesting the letters are only going to Lab/Con marginals and, as I pointed out in the last thread, the letters have also arrived in Guildford - the archetypal LD/Con marginal.
    Don’t be daft

    Someone asked whether they were going to similar constituencies. @Richard_Tyndall gave one more example

    N=2 doesn’t equal “repeatedly lying”
    Try reading the thread (although I admit the number of repetitive posts does get wearing). The entire attack is based on these letters going to Lab/Con marginals. I did see one other example (St Albans) given, but not until I had posted. One dissenter does not take away from the (very) misleading thrust of the discussion, just as a piece of stupidity about Warrington does not make the letters wrong as a whole.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited November 2019
    ***** SHOCK HORROR *****
    Tonight, Electoral Calculus has the Tories winning a wafer-thin majority of just 12 seats with them on 331 seats, Labour on 235 and the LibDems on 16.
    God knows what polls they are basing this forecast on, less than 48 hours after YouGov's supposedly wondrous MRP giving the Blue Team a majority of 68!
  • Fenman said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    To Nick Palmer
    You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.

    I won't speak for Nick but...
    I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
    The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
    Perhaps they also regard the LibDems in general and Swinson in particular of being deeply undemocratic.
    Never mind. Labour will win another election one day. Then they can sell the working class down the river once more.
    Labour don't need a majority to "win", they only need the Tories not to have one. Not long to wait now
  • These letters seem to be appearing all over the place
    twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    Mike is obviously doing his bit for the LDs just like all the other supporters on here are supporting their parties. There is an election on ....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    Apparently this was where the incident today may have started:

    "A Five Year Celebration Alumni Event run by the programme Learning Together, a project on prison-based learning set up by the Cambridge Centre for Teaching and Learning, was being held at Fishmongers’ Hall nearby between 11am and 4pm."

    https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/london-bridge-terror-attack-university-of-cambridge-gravely-concerned-for-staff-students-and-alumni-9091966/
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Aside from the politics, the terrorism, what’s the book like on the next arsenal manager? Outside betting tip alert, if Corbyn loses and resigns, could he be in the running? Not sure what defence would be like under him, but the left wing would be strong and I’m sure he could keep finding strikers from somewhere.

    What is Eddie Howe in the book, seems a good fit for both parties.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Charles said:

    nichomar said:

    nunu2 said:

    Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?

    NHS up for sale, no contest. Because it simply isn't.
    Well I’m afraid bits of the NHS have been up for sale for years, whilst I can understand none medical supply services such as laundry, catering and cleaning if properly managed are acceptable, mental health therapy and other such services have been ‘outsourced’ so I’m afraid it is being sold off bit by bit without you noticing. Additionally are there any local authority care homes left or have BUPA and Anchor cornered the market ?
    Sweden has a great healthcare system

    It’s private
    This is something that is rarely appreciated in this country, because of the veneration of the NHS as some kind of religious cult.

    The NHS model of healthcare provision is unusual. Insurance-based systems are the norm and, in many countries, produce better patient outcomes than the NHS.

    Most voters, however, seem able to imagine only two possible solutions: the NHS or the American private healthcare system (which, in crude terms, provides some of the best outcomes available for the rich, but can easily bankrupt middle-class households and abandons the poor to die.)

    Successful models like Sweden are never mentioned. I think because to suggest that other countries manage health care much better than we do would immediately be labelled as (a) a personal insult to everybody who works in the NHS and (b) heresy.

    So, would we have been better off if the 1945 Government had created a system of comprehensive universal health insurance rather than nationalising the hospitals? In all probability, yes. But we are where we are, of course.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    What does it say?
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    humbugger said:

    alb1on said:

    These letters seem to be appearing all over the place

    https://twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    I thought I was reading Jacob's bio when I looked her up. Dodgy fund manager with nine children!
    Disgraceful comment. This lady was widely touted as a possible Governor of the BOE a month or 2 back.
    I know a bit about the fund management business having had the joy of sitting in on presentations by PIMCO. I do not claim to be an expert (my area is insurance) but if half of what I heard is right there is no such thing as a non-dodgy fund manager who has specialised in bonds.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    What does it say?
  • nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    I doubt the times made it up

    More detail needed but out of jail for over a year on a tag and reporting to the police is going to need some serious answers if confirmed
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited November 2019

    ***** SHOCK HORROR *****
    Tonight, Electoral Calculus has the Tories winning a wafer-thin majority of just 12 seats with them on 331 seats, Labour on 235 and the LibDems on 16.
    God knows what polls they are basing this forecast on, less than 48 hours after YouGov's supposedly wondrous MRP giving the Blue Team a majority of 68!

    My old swingometer (before yougov's MRP adjustment) gives it Conservatives short by 2 using the average of the last 3 polls.
    An average swing of just 1% in Labour seats to the Conservatives.
    On plain UNS it's a majority of 24 with a swing of 3%.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,358

    These letters seem to be appearing all over the place

    https://twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    Mike's gone viral! :open_mouth:
  • PeterC said:

    I think the problem with Jo Swinson is that I don't believe anything she says. She seems to go with the wind.

    That is hardly unique to Jo Swinson. Name me a frontline politician you do believe.
    Are there any who are believable?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    These letters seem to be appearing all over the place
    twitter.com/MorrisseyHelena/status/1200510218947452929

    Mike is obviously doing his bit for the LDs just like all the other supporters on here are supporting their parties. There is an election on ....
    So RCS is voting Tory, Mike helping Jo with her bar charts? Christmas dinner should be interesting round there. Like one of those in Walford.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    PeterC said:

    Charles said:

    speedy2 said:

    Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why.
    The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.

    That’s it!

    She’s comes across like a head girl at a minor public school. Very earnest and a bit of a goodie goodie but utterly conventional and uninspired
    I think the problem with Jo Swinson is that I don't believe anything she says. She seems to go with the wind.
    That is hardly unique to Jo Swinson. Name me a frontline politician you do believe.
    I am happy to acknowledge that you can always get to the truth with Boris. You just assume he is lying and that the truth is the exact opposite of whatever he is saying.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    What does it say?
    He was released from prison last year and was wearing an electronic tag.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,916
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I am on a train. It was only ten minutes late. It is half-empty, no drunks, nobody gobbing off, and I'm sitting next to the heater. I have warm pants, a book, and an Alpro Greek style strawberry soya yoghurt. Life is goooooood.... :)

    Which country are you in again?
    England. Various different bits of it. I live in one bit and commute to another by train. It's better than my previous approach, which involved moving around a lot (see past posts). However, since the bits are quite far apart (hundreds of miles in some cases) it involves a great deal of train travel, which can be extremely unpleasant if it's late at night or drunks or bad people get on, which they do with monotonous regularity. So you learn to appreciate the good bits
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited November 2019
    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    What does it say?
    That he was out on licence, wearing a tag.
  • ***** SHOCK HORROR *****
    Tonight, Electoral Calculus has the Tories winning a wafer-thin majority of just 12 seats with them on 331 seats, Labour on 235 and the LibDems on 16.
    God knows what polls they are basing this forecast on, less than 48 hours after YouGov's supposedly wondrous MRP giving the Blue Team a majority of 68!

    It's going to be a Hung Parliament
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    What does it say?
    He was released from prison last year and was wearing an electronic tag.
    Suspend the market on first Asian PM
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,826
    "The knife-wielding terrorist who killed two people before being shot dead by police was known to authorities and had connection to Islamist terror groups, sources understand.

    The Times reports he was released from prison about a year ago after agreeing to wear an electronic tag.

    According to The Times, the attacker had been released from jail after he agreed to be monitored by authorities."

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-london-bridge-knife-attacker-20993129?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
  • ***** SHOCK HORROR *****
    Tonight, Electoral Calculus has the Tories winning a wafer-thin majority of just 12 seats with them on 331 seats, Labour on 235 and the LibDems on 16.
    God knows what polls they are basing this forecast on, less than 48 hours after YouGov's supposedly wondrous MRP giving the Blue Team a majority of 68!

    Incidentally, right now Spreadex's spread on a Tory Majority is 65.2 -73.4 seats, i.e. a mid spread of 69.3 seats.
    Is there a decent bit of value in selling at 65.2 seats? ... The downside on there being a larger majority is starting to look quite limited?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,358
    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently this was where the incident today may have started:

    "A Five Year Celebration Alumni Event run by the programme Learning Together, a project on prison-based learning set up by the Cambridge Centre for Teaching and Learning, was being held at Fishmongers’ Hall nearby between 11am and 4pm."

    https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/london-bridge-terror-attack-university-of-cambridge-gravely-concerned-for-staff-students-and-alumni-9091966/

    Why would a terrorist target something like that?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    Charles said:

    nichomar said:

    nunu2 said:

    Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?

    NHS up for sale, no contest. Because it simply isn't.
    Well I’m afraid bits of the NHS have been up for sale for years, whilst I can understand none medical supply services such as laundry, catering and cleaning if properly managed are acceptable, mental health therapy and other such services have been ‘outsourced’ so I’m afraid it is being sold off bit by bit without you noticing. Additionally are there any local authority care homes left or have BUPA and Anchor cornered the market ?
    Sweden has a great healthcare system

    It’s private
    They also spend 30% more per head on healthcare than we do.

    How about we bump the NHS budget by 30%?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    nico67 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    nico67 said:

    Good grief the front of the Times .

    Please tell me that’s not true .

    What does it say?
    He was released from prison last year and was wearing an electronic tag.
    If The Times has made this up, the Times is in trouble.
    If it hasn’t I agree with @Big_G_NorthWales the met are in trouble...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    I am on a train. It was only ten minutes late. It is half-empty, no drunks, nobody gobbing off, and I'm sitting next to the heater. I have warm pants, a book, and an Alpro Greek style strawberry soya yoghurt. Life is goooooood.... :)

    Which country are you in again?
    England. Various different bits of it. I live in one bit and commute to another by train. It's better than my previous approach, which involved moving around a lot (see past posts). However, since the bits are quite far apart (hundreds of miles in some cases) it involves a great deal of train travel, which can be extremely unpleasant if it's late at night or drunks or bad people get on, which they do with monotonous regularity. So you learn to appreciate the good bits
    I was trying to be sarcastic by implying you would never get that here...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    ***** SHOCK HORROR *****
    Tonight, Electoral Calculus has the Tories winning a wafer-thin majority of just 12 seats with them on 331 seats, Labour on 235 and the LibDems on 16.
    God knows what polls they are basing this forecast on, less than 48 hours after YouGov's supposedly wondrous MRP giving the Blue Team a majority of 68!

    It's going to be a Hung Parliament
    if you say so.
This discussion has been closed.