Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
Yes but what it means taken absolutely literally, and what it is quite deliberately being used to make people think it means, are very different things
Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
You have a strange view on life brexit is not done until the ongoing relationship with the EU is agreed and what impact that agreement has on the UK economy and it’s citizens both in the UK and in the continuing EU is all resolved. As for the complete crap of taking control... well the only deal they will be agreed will be regulatory alignment or WTO but I’m sure that is what you want for whatever reason.
You have a strange world view. Neighbouring nations/organisations change their ongoing relationship all the time.
I don't for one second believe regulatory alignment or WTO will be the only 2 options. Canada negotiated a deal with the EU that was neither of those.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
You must be joking. During the transition period pretty much everything stays exactly as it is. We haven’t got hundreds of civil servants pulled off their jobs preparing for that. The machinery of government is bogged down in working out how things will run when the transition period ends. And will still be bogged down doing that next year.
In the most recent election in Chipping Barnet, on May 23rd. the LDs were 11% ahead of the tories and 13% ahead of LAB.
When you're in a hole etc...
It does look to have been a bit of a silly thing to do.
If this letter has the effect of persuading a few hundred voters to switch from labour to libdem then surely it just increases the chance of Con taking the seat. So irrespective of the questionable premise for the argument, I just dont see the point. Unless CCHQ produced it. In which case its genius.
Swinson is having a mare of a campaign isn't she? To be fair she probably needed a couple of years as leader to bed-in but then the LDs decided to engineer an election.
Seeing her up against Sturgeon - who is a class act - does her no favours. Nevertheless, here in England, given the other available choices, it’s been a really easy decision to cast my vote for the LDs.
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
Yes but what it means taken absolutely literally, and what it is quite deliberately being used to make people think it means, are very different things
I think people take it to mean what it really does mean - that we will be out. No more, no less.
Once we are out all the talk of a "second referendum" and other garbage dies a death, you can campaign to rejoin if you want then but I think that would be an extremely minority pursuit.
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
You must be joking. During the transition period pretty much everything stays exactly as it is. We haven’t got hundreds of civil servants pulled off their jobs preparing for that. The machinery of government is bogged down in working out how things will run when the transition period ends. And will still be bogged down doing that next year.
The machinery of Gov't will do what it has to do. And it'll be able to get on with it without grandstanding politicians blocking its path.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
Yes, better, because he has to remain faithful to the Dickens, but puts a joyous spin on it. The first thing you notice is the multi-ethnic cast, which marks it out as not your typical Dickens. The ensemble cast are outstanding - Dev Patel has huge energy as Copperfield, Hugh Laurie a loveable Mr Dick (his aged, away with the fairies Wooster is going to get award nods aplenty), Peter Capaldi as a Brummie Micawber, Tilda Swinson as Betsey Trotwood - everyone is on top of their game and just LOVE playing the material. It also looks beautiful.
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
You must be joking. During the transition period pretty much everything stays exactly as it is. We haven’t got hundreds of civil servants pulled off their jobs preparing for that. The machinery of government is bogged down in working out how things will run when the transition period ends. And will still be bogged down doing that next year.
Yes but the civil servants will be getting on with it. Not politicians. We won't have Chuka and Grieve and Wollaston etc all trying to engineer new delays and obstructions in Parliament. Actually we won't have them in Parliament at all.
Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
You have a strange view on life brexit is not done until the ongoing relationship with the EU is agreed and what impact that agreement has on the UK economy and it’s citizens both in the UK and in the continuing EU is all resolved. As for the complete crap of taking control... well the only deal they will be agreed will be regulatory alignment or WTO but I’m sure that is what you want for whatever reason.
So a No Deal Brexit leaves us in the same "Brexit is done position" as a With Deal Brexit?
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
"You should see your f&@king face" A brilliant performance
There is one scene I would love to see reenacted with Boris. It's the one where Steve Buscemi as Kruschev announces 'We should get Stalin's children here'. The sheer confusion that would be caused by a call to summon Boris' children would be a joy to behold.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
You must be joking. During the transition period pretty much everything stays exactly as it is. We haven’t got hundreds of civil servants pulled off their jobs preparing for that. The machinery of government is bogged down in working out how things will run when the transition period ends. And will still be bogged down doing that next year.
The machinery of Gov't will do what it has to do. And it'll be able to get on with it without grandstanding politicians blocking its path.
I think you’ll find it will throw up quite a few issues that will occupy the politicians, grandstanding and all.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
Nevertheless even I concede that the LibDems have scripted out a campaign anticipating rather different circumstances than the ones they have encountered.
I see (message to campaigners) Johnson and Corbyn have talked and agreed that campaigning should resume tomorrow as a statement against those who would do democracy harm. We are all asked to stick to positive messages in any social media tonight.
The NHS for sale is getting quite a lot of traction here.
Perhaps the single most dishonest slogan in the entire election campaign.
As we learned from the Leave campaign it doesn't't matter if something is a lie, it's whether people believe it that matters. That was the rationale behind the £350m a week on the bus.
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
Yes, better, because he has to remain faithful to the Dickens, but puts a joyous spin on it. The first thing you notice is the multi-ethnic cast, which marks it out as not your typical Dickens. The ensemble cast are outstanding - Dev Patel has huge energy as Copperfield, Hugh Laurie a loveable Mr Dick (his aged, away with the fairies Wooster is going to get award nods aplenty), Peter Capaldi as a Brummie Micawber, Tilda Swinson as Betsey Trotwood - everyone is on top of their game and just LOVE playing the material. It also looks beautiful.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
Copying “Ruth Davidson’s Candidates”.*
Swinson is a product of her environment.
* Widely perceived, at the time, to be an act of genius. It wasn’t.
Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why. The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
You must be joking. During the transition period pretty much everything stays exactly as it is. We haven’t got hundreds of civil servants pulled off their jobs preparing for that. The machinery of government is bogged down in working out how things will run when the transition period ends. And will still be bogged down doing that next year.
The machinery of Gov't will do what it has to do. And it'll be able to get on with it without grandstanding politicians blocking its path.
I think you’ll find it will throw up quite a few issues that will occupy the politicians, grandstanding and all.
If it does it will be new post-Brexit issues. Not the same old pre-Brexit issues.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why. The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
They can't, the hope is the LDs can, although that looks less likely than it once did.
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
You must be joking. During the transition period pretty much everything stays exactly as it is. We haven’t got hundreds of civil servants pulled off their jobs preparing for that. The machinery of government is bogged down in working out how things will run when the transition period ends. And will still be bogged down doing that next year.
The machinery of Gov't will do what it has to do. And it'll be able to get on with it without grandstanding politicians blocking its path.
I think you’ll find it will throw up quite a few issues that will occupy the politicians, grandstanding and all.
The real danger is if the WAIB is passed unaltered that gives the government carte Blanche to agree the ongoing relationship with the EU without reference tp parliament and removes any obligation to report on progress. There are some other nasties in there about small things like workers rights, environment and consumer protection but the problem is no one is interested. The commons will miss the skills of some of the Tory rebel’s
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
This isn't a spat that bothers me one way or the other, but this is a very silly post.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Good call. If there are any there would be in London. If the Conservatives can hold on all their London seats then the polls would be wrong and there would be a Conservative majority.
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
I will forever think of Zhukov having a South Yorkshire accent, it’s pitch perfect btw in setting him as a simple soldier against the Politburo nomelaktura.
Although the film flails badly from around half way in.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
First thing is that the SNP could eat into the CON total of 13 north of the border. That could easily be reduced to 1 or 2.
To Nick Palmer You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
I won't speak for Nick but... I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair. The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
Yes, better, because he has to remain faithful to the Dickens, but puts a joyous spin on it. The first thing you notice is the multi-ethnic cast, which marks it out as not your typical Dickens. The ensemble cast are outstanding - Dev Patel has huge energy as Copperfield, Hugh Laurie a loveable Mr Dick (his aged, away with the fairies Wooster is going to get award nods aplenty), Peter Capaldi as a Brummie Micawber, Tilda Swinson as Betsey Trotwood - everyone is on top of their game and just LOVE playing the material. It also looks beautiful.
Thanks. I shall go to see it.
Not out until January - watched it on a BAFTA screener.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
I think that is just targeting. Surrey is a place full of Remainers who dislike both Jezza and BoZo.
I have had two LD leaflets in my Constituency and none from other parties so far. Neither mention Jo Swinson at all, though the local candidate Dr Carol Weaver multiple times, in various places in the Constituency. A Lancaster bomber too with the strap line "the Lib Dems are taking off in Rutland and Melton".
The main thing I took from tonight's debate is how much better British politics would be without the toxic contributions of Johnson and Corbyn. They were not missed - and all 7 who took part had moments in which they impressed.
Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why. The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.
Objectively half time Welsh Nat first Lucas 2nd Unknown Tory and RLB 5th joint Not that I agree with is views I did think Tice would do better.
Poor Plaid. They could potentially clear up the five rural seats of the language belt, but beyond that it's hard to see where they make any further progress.
Unless, that is, a strong Brexit Party showing in all those very Leavey hereditary Labour fiefdoms in South Wales generates one or two surprise winners on unusually small shares of the vote. Might have to have a look into that one.
Not saying I’m agreeing but he is debating very well imo!
Been investigating and, as expected, there appear to be no plausible gains for Plaid beyond Ynys Mon.
Looking at recent past performance, including Assembly results, and the estimated Leave/Remain split, the least unlikely targets for a shock Plaid coming through the middle and nicking it result seem to be 1. Blaenau Gwent, 2. Rhondda and 3. Llanelli. But the odds are remote in the extreme.
My husband is originally from Llanelli, and we both rate the chances of Nia Griffith being upset as effectively zero.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Had another 4-page A3 from them today. It doubles down on the Cult of Jo (it's not from the LibDems as yoiu might suppose, it's from "Jo Swinson's LibDems"), and she talks about what she'll do in the coming LibDem government.
You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
Nevertheless even I concede that the LibDems have scripted out a campaign anticipating rather different circumstances than the ones they have encountered.
Yes didn’t see TBP walking away and corbyn being even more toxic. It has not gone well but you have to play the cards you are dealt. I am surprised at how the news coverage has been split up does anyone know on what basis it has been decided?
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
They do, affordable spending plans too.
5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
I see (message to campaigners) Johnson and Corbyn have talked and agreed that campaigning should resume tomorrow as a statement against those who would do democracy harm. We are all asked to stick to positive messages in any social media tonight.
It would be good to remember that two people have been brutally killed today and their families and friends will be grieving their loss tonight and for times to come. We should spare a thought (and prayer) for them.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
They do, affordable spending plans too.
5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
First thing is that the SNP could eat into the CON total of 13 north of the border. That could easily be reduced to 1 or 2.
I don't think so, if the Conservatives and Labour are polling nationally at 2017 levels they should be close to 2017 levels in scotland too. My guess is that we will have to wait for swinging Swindon, the Swindon seats came early in the last few elections and their swing confirmed the results of the past 3 general elections and the referendum.
Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why. The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.
To Nick Palmer You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
I won't speak for Nick but... I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair. The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
My experience from hanging about with activists from other parties, eg at polling stations, is that SNP, Lab, Grn and Con all get on very well with each other, whereas the Lib Dems treat everyone else as pariahs. Unsurprisingly, the treatment becomes mutual.
In the most recent election in Chipping Barnet, on May 23rd. the LDs were 11% ahead of the tories and 13% ahead of LAB.
When you're in a hole etc...
It does look to have been a bit of a silly thing to do.
If this letter has the effect of persuading a few hundred voters to switch from labour to libdem then surely it just increases the chance of Con taking the seat. So irrespective of the questionable premise for the argument, I just dont see the point. Unless CCHQ produced it. In which case its genius.
Look at Mike's commwnt above - doesn't sound like it was the tories does it.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
To Nick Palmer You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
I won't speak for Nick but... I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair. The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?
One is literally true but substantively untrue, the other is literally untrue but substantively true.
I don't either is true. The Tories are not going to "get Brexit done". Brexit doesn't end when they claim it does. They are lying.
The exiting part certainly ends.
Brexit is not done when we leave the EU. We'll be arguing about it for the next 7 years whilst we negotiate a trade deal. This isn't going away.
Honestly. It’s like no other country in the world negotiates trade deals. In case it’s escaped your notice there are more countries not in the EU than in it. And an overwhelming majority of those countries are considerably less economically powerful than we are.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
Hendon would be an unlikely Labour win in the circs
Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?
NHS up for sale, no contest. Because it simply isn't.
Well I’m afraid bits of the NHS have been up for sale for years, whilst I can understand none medical supply services such as laundry, catering and cleaning if properly managed are acceptable, mental health therapy and other such services have been ‘outsourced’ so I’m afraid it is being sold off bit by bit without you noticing. Additionally are there any local authority care homes left or have BUPA and Anchor cornered the market ?
Objectively half time Welsh Nat first Lucas 2nd Unknown Tory and RLB 5th joint Not that I agree with is views I did think Tice would do better.
Poor Plaid. They could potentially clear up the five rural seats of the language belt, but beyond that it's hard to see where they make any further progress.
Unless, that is, a strong Brexit Party showing in all those very Leavey hereditary Labour fiefdoms in South Wales generates one or two surprise winners on unusually small shares of the vote. Might have to have a look into that one.
Not saying I’m agreeing but he is debating very well imo!
Been investigating and, as expected, there appear to be no plausible gains for Plaid beyond Ynys Mon.
Looking at recent past performance, including Assembly results, and the estimated Leave/Remain split, the least unlikely targets for a shock Plaid coming through the middle and nicking it result seem to be 1. Blaenau Gwent, 2. Rhondda and 3. Llanelli. But the odds are remote in the extreme.
My husband is originally from Llanelli, and we both rate the chances of Nia Griffith being upset as effectively zero.
Plaid in Llanelli has also been riven by infighting and resignations..
Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?
One is literally true but substantively untrue, the other is literally untrue but substantively true.
I don't either is true. The Tories are not going to "get Brexit done". Brexit doesn't end when they claim it does. They are lying.
It is literally true because once we have left the EU Brexit will have been delivered in the most basic sense. It is substantively untrue because the process of agreeing a new relationship with Europe then begins, a process that will be far more consuming of time and energy than anything that has happened so far, and carries huge economic risks that the public is utterly unaware of. Similarly, the Tories are not going to literally parcel up the NHS and sell it off to the highest bidder. But we know that many of them would rather move to an insurance system and whenever they are in office the quality of service deteriorates to the point that private health insurance becomes more popular for the wealthy, while private sector involvement in the system grows. And there are also the risks posed by higher drug costs as a result of a US/UK trade deal. Plus in such a deal aggressive US health insurance firms could gain a toehold here and lobby for less public healthcare provision as they do so successfully back home.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
First thing is that the SNP could eat into the CON total of 13 north of the border. That could easily be reduced to 1 or 2.
I don't think so, if the Conservatives and Labour are polling nationally at 2017 levels they should be close to 2017 levels in scotland too. My guess is that we will have to wait for swinging Swindon, the Swindon seats came early in the last few elections and their swing confirmed the results of the past 3 general elections and the referendum.
I would be cautious reading the Swindon results across to the rest of the country given the economic disasters of Honda and Eon which have hit that area.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?
One is literally true but substantively untrue, the other is literally untrue but substantively true.
I don't either is true. The Tories are not going to "get Brexit done". Brexit doesn't end when they claim it does. They are lying.
The exiting part certainly ends.
Brexit is not done when we leave the EU. We'll be arguing about it for the next 7 years whilst we negotiate a trade deal. This isn't going away.
We'll be out of the EU at that point though, so my point stands.
That isn't getting Brexit "done"
What do you define as done? The UK will be negotiating trade deals from now until forever. Getting out of the EU will be a watershed moment. Up until that point, people like yourself will be frustrating for the whole thing to be cancelled.
Well, I got my first campaign leaflets through the door today. One from the Lib Dems (without any psephological insights from Mike Smithson), and one from an independent - policies rather vague but appears to be running on a 'drain the swamp' ticket.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north. Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
Which is more dishonest, the NHS is up for sale or get Brexit done?
One is literally true but substantively untrue, the other is literally untrue but substantively true.
I don't either is true. The Tories are not going to "get Brexit done". Brexit doesn't end when they claim it does. They are lying.
The exiting part certainly ends.
Brexit is not done when we leave the EU. We'll be arguing about it for the next 7 years whilst we negotiate a trade deal. This isn't going away.
Commons Library 01.11.19
"The UK had an overall trade deficit of -£66 billion with the EU in 2018. A surplus of £28 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£94 billion on trade in goods. The UK had a trade surplus of £29 billion with non-EU countries"
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
If the Lib Dems vote tactically, Labour can have that one
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
Hendon would be an unlikely Labour win in the circs
I do not think there is a likely win - just various degrees of unlikely. My problem with Putney is the strength of the LDs, who are unlikely to win but could screw Labours chances.
Well, I got my first campaign leaflets through the door today. One from the Lib Dems (without any psephological insights from Mike Smithson), and one from an independent - policies rather vague but appears to be running on a 'drain the swamp' ticket.
You've got Donald Trump standing in your constituency???
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
They do, affordable spending plans too.
5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
Better than your lunatic leader who is as bad as Johnson and will just trash the country in a differentbway
Many people have tried to figure out why Swinson is doing so badly, I think I found why. The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north. Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
Well, I got my first campaign leaflets through the door today. One from the Lib Dems (without any psephological insights from Mike Smithson), and one from an independent - policies rather vague but appears to be running on a 'drain the swamp' ticket.
You've got Donald Trump standing in your constituency???
In which case I assume the swamp draining is to build a new golf course.
Well, I got my first campaign leaflets through the door today. One from the Lib Dems (without any psephological insights from Mike Smithson), and one from an independent - policies rather vague but appears to be running on a 'drain the swamp' ticket.
You've got Donald Trump standing in your constituency???
In which case I assume the swamp draining is to build a new golf course.
Maybe invite some young ladies over for some old fashioned "grabbing"?
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north. Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
Shame about Telford. Lucy Allan is one of the most vile MPs in the House.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
Putney
Hendon looks more likely to me. The anti-Tory vote could be more split in Putney.
Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
If the Lib Dems vote tactically, Labour can have that one
I can't even do Maths, ignore me
They could but why should they no one is compromising to gain tactical votes we can spend the next five years blaming the tories little helpers and anti Semite corbyn but it won’t change anything. Total y aside why did the tories send the nonentity to the debates they would have done better with an ice cube?
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
They do, affordable spending plans too.
5 more years of Austerity is what the LDs are offering and skills wallets
Better than your lunatic leader who is as bad as Johnson and will just trash the country in a differentbway
You are going down in the polls faster than a "dancer" at Spearmint Rhino
To Nick Palmer You actually dislike the lib dems more than the tories don’t you. You can’t abide anyone getting in the way of the two party duopoly stitch up.
I won't speak for Nick but... I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair. The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
Perhaps they also regard the LibDems in general and Swinson in particular of being deeply undemocratic.
I'm thinking, if it's going to be another Hung Parliament Labour have to gain seats from the Conservatives like in 2017. In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South. Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
I don't think Telford will go Labour, too far north. Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
A Tory hold is brewing there.
One would've thought so. For all that it's a marginal, Camborne and Redruth was also estimated at 58.4% Leave. If Labour managed to take that one it would either indicate unusual local circumstances or imply that Brexit wasn't a major factor in the election.
Comments
I don't for one second believe regulatory alignment or WTO will be the only 2 options. Canada negotiated a deal with the EU that was neither of those.
Welsh nat
Lucas
Swinson
Sturgeon
Unknown Tory
Tice
RBL
Once we are out all the talk of a "second referendum" and other garbage dies a death, you can campaign to rejoin if you want then but I think that would be an extremely minority pursuit.
Sturgeon probably the best
In 2017 their small loses in the North where cancelled out by victories mainly in the South.
Which seats could Labour gain from the Conservatives this time?
It also looks beautiful.
Swinson is a product of her environment.
* Widely perceived, at the time, to be an act of genius. It wasn’t.
The problem for Swinson is that she comes off on TV as a spoiled girl.
.
If there are any there would be in London.
If the Conservatives can hold on all their London seats then the polls would be wrong and there would be a Conservative majority.
Although the film flails badly from around half way in.
I thought Swinson was the worst on stage tonight but also her treatment in Sheffield from the audience was deeply unfair.
The Labourite left regards Tories as the enemy, but the Lib Dems as traitors.
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
I have had two LD leaflets in my Constituency and none from other parties so far. Neither mention Jo Swinson at all, though the local candidate Dr Carol Weaver multiple times, in various places in the Constituency. A Lancaster bomber too with the strap line "the Lib Dems are taking off in Rutland and Melton".
https://youtu.be/HXiZHXkG-ac
Looking at recent past performance, including Assembly results, and the estimated Leave/Remain split, the least unlikely targets for a shock Plaid coming through the middle and nicking it result seem to be 1. Blaenau Gwent, 2. Rhondda and 3. Llanelli. But the odds are remote in the extreme.
My husband is originally from Llanelli, and we both rate the chances of Nia Griffith being upset as effectively zero.
My guess is that we will have to wait for swinging Swindon, the Swindon seats came early in the last few elections and their swing confirmed the results of the past 3 general elections and the referendum.
I wonder if he has thought this through
http://www.llanellionline.news/glenallagate-and-the-demise-of-plaid-cymru-llanelli/
Similarly, the Tories are not going to literally parcel up the NHS and sell it off to the highest bidder. But we know that many of them would rather move to an insurance system and whenever they are in office the quality of service deteriorates to the point that private health insurance becomes more popular for the wealthy, while private sector involvement in the system grows.
And there are also the risks posed by higher drug costs as a result of a US/UK trade deal. Plus in such a deal aggressive US health insurance firms could gain a toehold here and lobby for less public healthcare provision as they do so successfully back home.
Possibly not Hendon. The suggestion I read was that there was a reasonably-sized Jewish vote in the seat, not as pivotal as Finchley & Golders Green but enough to cause Labour trouble.
Both Boris and Corbyn have campaigned these past few days around Penzance, something maybe cooking in the Camborne and Redruth constituency.
"The UK had an overall trade deficit of -£66 billion with the EU in 2018. A surplus of £28 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£94 billion on trade in goods. The UK had a trade surplus of £29 billion with non-EU countries"
Why would the EU want to drag its feet?
I can't even do Maths, ignore me
For Lab its L
LD is C that i believe may be Collaborators not C***s
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/29/several-hurt-hague-stabbing-spree/