In the most recent election in Chipping Barnet, on May 23rd. the LDs were 11% ahead of the tories and 13% ahead of LAB.
If anyone else on this board used that as an excuse you would have shot them down in an instant. You insult every single person on here by making such an argument when you know it is utterly misleading and wrong.
Thank God I backed the Brexit Party at 33/1 to win in Heywood and Middleton. They stormed it at the Euros, Mike must make them a shade of odds on!
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I don't quite see why Mike Smithson has to put up with Labour & Tory party supporters questioning his integrity.
I mean, the Labour & Tory parties are running extremely duplicitous campaigns themselves.
When you are clean, you have earned the right to comment on other people's dirt. But if you are covered in ordure yourself ... then you should shut up.
They are also repeatedly lying by suggesting the letters are only going to Lab/Con marginals and, as I pointed out in the last thread, the letters have also arrived in Guildford - the archetypal LD/Con marginal.
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
With 5 of the 7 attendees being devoted to overturning Brexit, are you surprised? It is the entire purpose of this ridiculous spectacle.
If, what am I saying, when Tories win the majority on get brexit done it’s because public will believe brexit is out their life from February onward. If that’s not believed on Dec 12 is there a majority?
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
I don't quite see why Mike Smithson has to put up with Labour & Tory party supporters questioning his integrity.
I mean, the Labour & Tory parties are running extremely duplicitous campaigns themselves.
When you are clean, you have earned the right to comment on other people's dirt.
But if you are covered in ordure yourself ... then you should shut up.
I am neither a Tory or Labour supporter. But Mike has allowed himself to be made a fool of by both supporting the idiotic claims in the letters and the using arguments to justify it that everyone knows are disingenuous and counter to everything this site is supposed to stand for.
To be absolutely fair to both Johnson and Corbyn I don't think that applies in this case because:
(a) May ran away from all of these set-pieces, Johnson has done the first head-to-head with Corbyn already and has the second to come; and, more importantly...
(b) In the immediate aftermath of a terrorist atrocity one might consider that the Prime Minister would have more vital things to do than attend a slanging match. If Corbyn were to have changed his mind and rocked up at the last minute then Johnson would not only have been equipped with the perfect excuse for not following suit, but the Tories could plausibly have argued that Corbyn was exploiting the circumstances (in which innocent people have died) to try to score cheap political points off the Prime Minister
Thus Corbyn, having elected to nominate his own substitute too in advance of this debate, was arguably correct not to have committed the volte face that this particular commentator bemoans.
Bloody hell how did he know there was going to be a terrorist attack today that would take his undivided attention? He should have been scheduled to attend, he wasn’t terror attack in this scenario is irrelevant.
The point is that neither Johnson nor Corbyn were scheduled to attend. They both elected to give it a miss.
The tweet implies that Corbyn should've changed his mind and rocked up at the last minute in order to show Johnson up, in the same fashion as he did when May was avoiding all the debates in 2017. This would not have been a good idea given the circumstances. That's all.
The Smithson letter has been received here in St Albans.
Is it a two horse race ?
Yes - he’s backing Plaid to beat the Conservative in St Albans, based upon last year’s election of Dai Davies to the tea committee of the cricket club 2nd XIs.
To be fair, the letter is more appropriate in St Albans than in most of the others that it seems to be sent to.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
So why is it used by Labour’s opponents that to allow her to support you in government is so dangerous and disgusting? Tories won in 2015 by putting wee EdM in her pocket.
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
Well it is unless the UK sign up to regulatory alignment and all the other constraints of the single market.
I don't quite see why Mike Smithson has to put up with Labour & Tory party supporters questioning his integrity.
I mean, the Labour & Tory parties are running extremely duplicitous campaigns themselves.
When you are clean, you have earned the right to comment on other people's dirt. But if you are covered in ordure yourself ... then you should shut up.
They are also repeatedly lying by suggesting the letters are only going to Lab/Con marginals and, as I pointed out in the last thread, the letters have also arrived in Guildford - the archetypal LD/Con marginal.
I'm guessing they are using his piccy without his knowledge or consent...
Of course they are not. But I rather fear that the permission was a general one and it is some numpty at LDHQ that is deciding where and how it is used. It is an effective technique where there is some logic behind it, but using it everywhere including seats like Hornchurch is just ridiculous.
I suspect that is exactly what happened
I suggested in the last thread that Mike exercise some control as I fear the LibDems are damaging his brand
I don't quite see why Mike Smithson has to put up with Labour & Tory party supporters questioning his integrity.
I mean, the Labour & Tory parties are running extremely duplicitous campaigns themselves.
When you are clean, you have earned the right to comment on other people's dirt. But if you are covered in ordure yourself ... then you should shut up.
They are also repeatedly lying by suggesting the letters are only going to Lab/Con marginals and, as I pointed out in the last thread, the letters have also arrived in Guildford - the archetypal LD/Con marginal.
It’s still bizarre they’re going out so soon
I agree. I would have timed them for the last week.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
Objectively half time Welsh Nat first Lucas 2nd Unknown Tory and RLB 5th joint Not that I agree with is views I did think Tice would do better.
Poor Plaid. They could potentially clear up the five rural seats of the language belt, but beyond that it's hard to see where they make any further progress.
Unless, that is, a strong Brexit Party showing in all those very Leavey hereditary Labour fiefdoms in South Wales generates one or two surprise winners on unusually small shares of the vote. Might have to have a look into that one.
To be absolutely fair to both Johnson and Corbyn I don't think that applies in this case because:
(a) May ran away from all of these set-pieces, Johnson has done the first head-to-head with Corbyn already and has the second to come; and, more importantly...
(b) In the immediate aftermath of a terrorist atrocity one might consider that the Prime Minister would have more vital things to do than attend a slanging match. If Corbyn were to have changed his mind and rocked up at the last minute then Johnson would not only have been equipped with the perfect excuse for not following suit, but the Tories could plausibly have argued that Corbyn was exploiting the circumstances (in which innocent people have died) to try to score cheap political points off the Prime Minister
Thus Corbyn, having elected to nominate his own substitute too in advance of this debate, was arguably correct not to have committed the volte face that this particular commentator bemoans.
Bloody hell how did he know there was going to be a terrorist attack today that would take his undivided attention? He should have been scheduled to attend, he wasn’t terror attack in this scenario is irrelevant.
That isn't the point being discussed. The suggestion in the tweet was that Corbyn should have just rolled up like he did in 2017. Given the situation today, that would surely have looked very bad, and I have to question what the person making that tweet was thinking. Whether the two of them should have originally been attending is a totally separate matter, and the two can be considered separately.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
Objectively half time Welsh Nat first Lucas 2nd Unknown Tory and RLB 5th joint Not that I agree with is views I did think Tice would do better.
Poor Plaid. They could potentially clear up the five rural seats of the language belt, but beyond that it's hard to see where they make any further progress.
Unless, that is, a strong Brexit Party showing in all those very Leavey hereditary Labour fiefdoms in South Wales generates one or two surprise winners on unusually small shares of the vote. Might have to have a look into that one.
Not saying I’m agreeing but he is debating very well imo!
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
I'm guessing they are using his piccy without his knowledge or consent...
Of course they are not. But I rather fear that the permission was a general one and it is some numpty at LDHQ that is deciding where and how it is used. It is an effective technique where there is some logic behind it, but using it everywhere including seats like Hornchurch is just ridiculous.
I suspect that is exactly what happened
I suggested in the last thread that Mike exercise some control as I fear the LibDems are damaging his brand
The other thing I suspect is that it was a tactic designed in anticipation to capitalise on a nationwide Remain surge that isn’t happening.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
There is a plaice for a candidate with the sole aim of independence.
Weather forecasts are now starting to appear for December 12th (albeit that forecasts that far in advance tend to have about as much predictive power as Mystic Meg's crystal ball, or my GE forecasts.) Currently it seems like cold (low to mid-single figures above freezing) but with a low probability of rainfall all over the country.
On a related topic, given the unusual timing of the election I wonder if postal votes might reach 25%-plus of all ballots cast this time around? Postal voting appears to be on a steady upward trend anyway; perhaps the thought of traipsing to the local infants' school in the dark and cold might have driven an upswing in applications? Likewise, might a lot of the surge in last minute registrations, which have apparently been driven disproportionately by the young, turn out to be no-shows when they decide they can't be arsed and would rather stay indoors?
Paddypower are offering 22/1 on Tories 250-299 seats.
Yes, really.
Consider the scenario where the Tories drop to just 3 seats in Scotland, the Lib Dems really do outperform in the South and get 32-35 seats (taking 20 directly off the Tories) and Labour firm up their defence in the final week, getting up to 39-40% of the polls, meaning the Tories barely take half a dozen seats off them.
You could easily see the Tories ending up on 292-298 seats, and of course out of office.
What are the chances of this? Low. Probably about 10%, but certainly not 4-5%. Too much uncertainty out there.
If you've spent £500 making all sorts of bets on the Tories doing well here you can buy insurance to cover almost all of it for £25 here.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
Michael Howard's original family name was "Hecht".
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
Michael Howard's original family name was "Hecht".
Sunak very poor indeed: hate to say this but Tice is saving the Tory skin tonight.
I think he's doing fine. No clangers, he's not a future leader though I think (Though 200-1 is a good punt). Beccy Long Bailey completely shameless on the NHS nonsense - good pointer to Labour leader material I think Swinson is doing the poorest here.
Do Labour really want RBL as next leader? As in leader from next spring/summer? She's not ready. No offence. Another a few years on the front line then she might be. But within six months? Hmmm.
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
Yes I do believe it, so long as there is a healthy Tory majority. We will be out, we will calmly negotiate and implement a subsequent deal to follow the transition which won't be a very big argument (because the Tories will have a healthy majority to implement it) and nobody will be talking about Brexit.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
There is a plaice for a candidate with the sole aim of independence.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
Yes I do believe it, so long as there is a healthy Tory majority. We will be out, we will calmly negotiate and implement a subsequent deal to follow the transition which won't be a very big argument (because the Tories will have a healthy majority to implement it) and nobody will be talking about Brexit.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
Yes I do believe it, so long as there is a healthy Tory majority. We will be out, we will calmly negotiate and implement a subsequent deal to follow the transition which won't be a very big argument (because the Tories will have a healthy majority to implement it) and nobody will be talking about Brexit.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
There is (at least) one key difference. In remaining our relationship with Europe is already subject to existing treaties and agreements and does not require negotiation, so the position if we remain is relatively clear. No one has the faintest idea what the consequences will be of 'get Brexit done'. Even the sub-May agreement reached so far says nothing about any future trade relationship and it is obvious even to a blind member of the ERG that Boris is spinning a yarn when he says that it will not affect Northern Ireland's status in the union. So no; you may disagree with remaining, but a call to remain is a much clearer policy than 'get brexit done'.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
to leavers it means legally leaving the EU, so a signing ceremony, no more PM going to EU summits, the trade deal is secondary.
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
Yes I do believe it, so long as there is a healthy Tory majority. We will be out, we will calmly negotiate and implement a subsequent deal to follow the transition which won't be a very big argument (because the Tories will have a healthy majority to implement it) and nobody will be talking about Brexit.
Well that is what the Tories are campaigning on, Nicely succinctly put by you, and the voters believe you Thommo, that a Boris win and brexit brexit brexit will be out their lives for ever. From February they think.
It’s a lie. Another campaign won on a lie.
And the opposition parties are beginning to grapple with the lie now, half way through the campaign with lots of don’t knows still out there.
I'm guessing they are using his piccy without his knowledge or consent...
Of course they are not. But I rather fear that the permission was a general one and it is some numpty at LDHQ that is deciding where and how it is used. It is an effective technique where there is some logic behind it, but using it everywhere including seats like Hornchurch is just ridiculous.
I suspect that is exactly what happened
I suggested in the last thread that Mike exercise some control as I fear the LibDems are damaging his brand
I expressed serious doubts about the authenticity of Mike's leaflet as featured in this morning's thread, in which he urged "no-hope" Tory supporters to vote for the LibDems in Battersea, notwithstanding that the Blue Team received in excess of FIVE TIMES the votes cast for the Yellows in 2017! My other concern related to Mike's supposed signature at the foot of the leaflet, which I noticed has since been edited out of the two subsequent but otherwise identically drafted leaflets which we have since seen featured here on PB.com. I don't claim to be a qualified graphologist but I have taken a keen interest in handwriting styles over the years. Now of course I could be entirely wrong over this, but the signature at the foot of the Battersea leaflet very much appears to me to have originated from a female hand. Furthermore, without wishing to be too exact, I would estimate that it was penned by someone aged between approx 30 - 50 years, as opposed to a male in his seventies. If I'm wrong on these issues, I apologise in advance to Mike and congratulate him on his very artistic and seriously youthful hand.
Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
to leavers it means legally leaving the EU, so a signing ceremony, no more PM going to EU summits, the trade deal is secondary.
As, presumably, is creating the conditions for the dissolution of the United Kingdom.
She is in a different class to most other politicians in the UK. Even when she is off her game she is still better than most others.
All leaders’ tenures are time limited, and her ability compared to any potential successors is of course why the SNP is in such a hurry towards Indy2. Without a politician of Salmond (in his day) or Sturgeon’s stature to lead it through, Indy doesn’t stand a chance.
I fear you might be right. I certainly don't rate Blackford at the moment.
The next SNP leader is called Pike or Perch surely?
Richard Herring.
Or Flounder.
The nearest might be Bob Doris (with a silent "s").
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Perhaps they should spend some more time on that then rather than just "stop Brexit"?
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
I don't disagree - but I do want to know what else they stand for beyond Remain.
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
They stand for properly funded education from nursery through life, they stand for a sensibly funded HS and care regime, they stand for sound economics unlike labour and Tory, they stand for a fair voting system, they stand for sensible and achievable environmental policies, they stand for investment in communities and devolved powers to those communities. What more do you want?
Winners so far certainly not the Tories or Labour .
Get Brexit Done is getting a right kicking .
That’s the big take out so far, the claim brexit can quickly get done is under attack and being called a lie. The central plank of the Tory campaign, get brexit done, the opponents are trying to convince the voters is a big lie.
Who is going to get convinced that it is a lie do you reckon? You've been convinced that it is a lie all along, how many who believe Brexit needs to be 'done' will watch this and say "Brexit done is a lie"?
It’s not wether you believe brexit is a good idea or not thommo, it’s whether brexit will be done and out peoples lives for ever by next February or not. You are right I don’t believe it. Do you believe it? No. You don't believe that either.
Yes I do believe it, so long as there is a healthy Tory majority. We will be out, we will calmly negotiate and implement a subsequent deal to follow the transition which won't be a very big argument (because the Tories will have a healthy majority to implement it) and nobody will be talking about Brexit.
Well that is what the Tories are campaigning on, Nicely succinctly put by you, and the voters believe you Thommo, that a Boris win and brexit brexit brexit will be out their lives for ever. From February they think.
It’s a lie. Another campaign won on a lie.
And the opposition parties are beginning to grapple with the lie now, half way through the campaign with lots of don’t knows still out there.
Brexit will be out of their lives from February. We will be out. Remain will not be a thing anymore.
I'm guessing they are using his piccy without his knowledge or consent...
Of course they are not. But I rather fear that the permission was a general one and it is some numpty at LDHQ that is deciding where and how it is used. It is an effective technique where there is some logic behind it, but using it everywhere including seats like Hornchurch is just ridiculous.
I suspect that is exactly what happened
I suggested in the last thread that Mike exercise some control as I fear the LibDems are damaging his brand
I expressed serious doubts about the authenticity of Mike's leaflet as featured in this morning's thread, in which he urged "no-hope" Tory supporters to vote for the LibDems in Battersea, notwithstanding that the Blue Team received in excess of FIVE TIMES the votes cast for the Yellows in 2017! My other concern related to Mike's supposed signature at the foot of the leaflet, which I noticed has since been edited out of the two subsequent but otherwise identically drafted leaflets which we have since seen featured here on PB.com. I don't claim to be a qualified graphologist but I have taken a keen interest in handwriting styles over the years. Now of course I could be entirely wrong over this, but the signature at the foot of the Battersea leaflet very much appears to me to have originated from a female hand. Furthermore, without wishing to be too exact, I would estimate that it was penned by someone aged between approx 30 - 50 years, as opposed to a male in his seventies. If I'm wrong on these issues, I apologise in advance to Mike and congratulate him on his very artistic and seriously youthful hand.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
to leavers it means legally leaving the EU, so a signing ceremony, no more PM going to EU summits, the trade deal is secondary.
As, presumably, is creating the conditions for the dissolution of the United Kingdom.
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
to leavers it means legally leaving the EU, so a signing ceremony, no more PM going to EU summits, the trade deal is secondary.
As, presumably, is creating the conditions for the dissolution of the United Kingdom.
I do not believe that Brexit creates any additional conditions. They were present already for a long time,
Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
Yes but what it means taken absolutely literally, and what it is quite deliberately being used to make people think it means, are very different things
Brexit will be "done" after we're out in January because it won't be sucking up every second of the day in parliamentary debate time. Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.
Swinson is having a mare of a campaign isn't she? To be fair she probably needed a couple of years as leader to bed-in but then the LDs decided to engineer an election.
I'm guessing they are using his piccy without his knowledge or consent...
Of course they are not. But I rather fear that the permission was a general one and it is some numpty at LDHQ that is deciding where and how it is used. It is an effective technique where there is some logic behind it, but using it everywhere including seats like Hornchurch is just ridiculous.
I suspect that is exactly what happened
I suggested in the last thread that Mike exercise some control as I fear the LibDems are damaging his brand
I expressed serious doubts about the authenticity of Mike's leaflet as featured in this morning's thread, in which he urged "no-hope" Tory supporters to vote for the LibDems in Battersea, notwithstanding that the Blue Team received in excess of FIVE TIMES the votes cast for the Yellows in 2017! My other concern related to Mike's supposed signature at the foot of the leaflet, which I noticed has since been edited out of the two subsequent but otherwise identically drafted leaflets which we have since seen featured here on PB.com. I don't claim to be a qualified graphologist but I have taken a keen interest in handwriting styles over the years. Now of course I could be entirely wrong over this, but the signature at the foot of the Battersea leaflet very much appears to me to have originated from a female hand. Furthermore, without wishing to be too exact, I would estimate that it was penned by someone aged between approx 30 - 50 years, as opposed to a male in his seventies. If I'm wrong on these issues, I apologise in advance to Mike and congratulate him on his very artistic and seriously youthful hand.
Mike has already been on here this evening defending the claims. Even if they were done without his knowledge or consent he is doubling down on the misinformation.
Swinson's "we need to Remain" is as bad as the Tory "get Brexit done" except in the other direction. I still don't have a bloody clue what she wants to do beyond that
Hmm. At least it is bloody clear what remaining in EU means. It means staying exactly where we are wrt EU.
Get Brexit done means what????
to leavers it means legally leaving the EU, so a signing ceremony, no more PM going to EU summits, the trade deal is secondary.
Every country in the world negotiates trade deals, I can't think of one that you would call "Brexit". Trade deal is not Brexit.
Iannucci's The Personal History of David Copperfield is sublime, by the way.
Better than Death of Stalin? I still can't get Jason Isaacs (as Zhukov) out of my mind, walking into the politburo with the line (something like) 'what's a war 'ero to do round 'ere for a drink?'
"You should see your f&@king face" A brilliant performance
Brexit will be done the second we leave. Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work. Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
You have a strange view on life brexit is not done until the ongoing relationship with the EU is agreed and what impact that agreement has on the UK economy and it’s citizens both in the UK and in the continuing EU is all resolved. As for the complete crap of taking control... well the only deal they will be agreed will be regulatory alignment or WTO but I’m sure that is what you want for whatever reason.
Comments
Welsh Nat first
Lucas 2nd
Unknown Tory and RLB 5th joint
Not that I agree with is views I did think Tice would do better.
The tweet implies that Corbyn should've changed his mind and rocked up at the last minute in order to show Johnson up, in the same fashion as he did when May was avoiding all the debates in 2017. This would not have been a good idea given the circumstances. That's all.
I suggested in the last thread that Mike exercise some control as I fear the LibDems are damaging his brand
Frankly, it's depressing to see people trying to excuse it.
Unless, that is, a strong Brexit Party showing in all those very Leavey hereditary Labour fiefdoms in South Wales generates one or two surprise winners on unusually small shares of the vote. Might have to have a look into that one.
I believe that is what is being referred to.
The suggestion in the tweet was that Corbyn should have just rolled up like he did in 2017. Given the situation today, that would surely have looked very bad, and I have to question what the person making that tweet was thinking.
Whether the two of them should have originally been attending is a totally separate matter, and the two can be considered separately.
On a related topic, given the unusual timing of the election I wonder if postal votes might reach 25%-plus of all ballots cast this time around? Postal voting appears to be on a steady upward trend anyway; perhaps the thought of traipsing to the local infants' school in the dark and cold might have driven an upswing in applications? Likewise, might a lot of the surge in last minute registrations, which have apparently been driven disproportionately by the young, turn out to be no-shows when they decide they can't be arsed and would rather stay indoors?
Paddypower are offering 22/1 on Tories 250-299 seats.
Yes, really.
Consider the scenario where the Tories drop to just 3 seats in Scotland, the Lib Dems really do outperform in the South and get 32-35 seats (taking 20 directly off the Tories) and Labour firm up their defence in the final week, getting up to 39-40% of the polls, meaning the Tories barely take half a dozen seats off them.
You could easily see the Tories ending up on 292-298 seats, and of course out of office.
What are the chances of this? Low. Probably about 10%, but certainly not 4-5%. Too much uncertainty out there.
If you've spent £500 making all sorts of bets on the Tories doing well here you can buy insurance to cover almost all of it for £25 here.
Seems good catastrophic insurance to me.
Hecht is the German word for "pike"
No clangers, he's not a future leader though I think (Though 200-1 is a good punt).
Beccy Long Bailey completely shameless on the NHS nonsense - good pointer to Labour leader material
I think Swinson is doing the poorest here.
They will Flander and whale when they lose.
Get Brexit done means what????
The truth is that the Lib Dems know they have nothing else to offer - and the Tories know it too.
So no; you may disagree with remaining, but a call to remain is a much clearer policy than 'get brexit done'.
It’s a lie. Another campaign won on a lie.
And the opposition parties are beginning to grapple with the lie now, half way through the campaign with lots of don’t knows still out there.
My other concern related to Mike's supposed signature at the foot of the leaflet, which I noticed has since been edited out of the two subsequent but otherwise identically drafted leaflets which we have since seen featured here on PB.com. I don't claim to be a qualified graphologist but I have taken a keen interest in handwriting styles over the years.
Now of course I could be entirely wrong over this, but the signature at the foot of the Battersea leaflet very much appears to me to have originated from a female hand. Furthermore, without wishing to be too exact, I would estimate that it was penned by someone aged between approx 30 - 50 years, as opposed to a male in his seventies. If I'm wrong on these issues, I apologise in advance to Mike and congratulate him on his very artistic and seriously youthful hand.
Claiming its not done just because we will have to do things every independent country does like negotiate trade deals etc is like claiming "getting University done" is garbage and University isn't completed when you graduate, because they you've got to go find a job and get to work.
Yes getting to work and taking control of your life is what adults do. And its what we will do for the rest of time once we have left the EU and Brexit is over.
Future chancellor certainly.
2 Lucas
3 Tice
4 Sturgeon
5 Bailey
6 Sunak
7 Swinson
Well, Mike can clear that up easily enough.
Of course we'll be in transition at that point negotiating a FTA but parliament can get back to roads, railways, hospitals, flood defense, wind power etc etc etc - because Brexit at that point is the concern of the Gov't and civil servants not 650 grandstanding MPs.