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No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .0 -
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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Brexit is just as barmy, just as potentially damaging; possibly more so long term, and I say that as an ex Conservative party member and activist . If Corbyn stands any chance of getting near power it is the idiot Brexiteers who have given him that chance. Well done idiots, you have reduced the Conservative Party to being the party of the economically illiterate and only slightly less stupid than Corbyn's Labour Party.SunnyJim said:
How deranged would you need to be to ever consider the EU to be worth what Labour will do to the country.Byronic said:
Yes, that’s the worry. It’s now clear who you have to vote for, to stop Brexit. And it’s Jeremy bloody Corbyn.
There must be lots of anguished Remainers out there, staring at Corbyn’s economic policies and wondering if the risk is worth it.
It is utterly barmy.0 -
My mother is a waspi but also a frothing Brexiteer who went to a Farage Brexit rally.RobD said:
How do you counter it effectively without reminding 3+ million people they can get £30k for just ticking a box?
It has all suddenly gone quiet on getting Brexit done and we haven't had a recent conversation about the election.
Her £30k will be roughly the same as my additional income tax bill over a 5 year parliament but by the time you factor in all the additional taxes plus the impact of the 10% worker share scheme I could see the true cost nudging six figures for me.
It is democracy so you have to suck it up BUT if we escape a Corbyn government this time and there is no change in Labour direction before the next GE then it would be financial suicide to keep assets in the UK.
And if a no-mark like me is looking for the exit you can be sure that all the real money is either gone already or will be within hours of a Corbyn win.
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You didn't link to the tweet in that thread that most matches my anecdotal experience:TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1199381940354404353
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He has no empathy, is a liar and arrogant. Reasons enough to dislike him.nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .
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Your partisan schadenfreude might turn out to be prematureCasino_Royale said:
It was but hindsight is a wonderful thing and, at the time, I thought they might hover up most of the 20% of the electorate that was up for Revoke off the back of it.Byronic said:
Yes, Revoke was a terrible error. I see that the LDs acknowledge this in the FT todayPhilip_Thompson said:
Pretty hard to criticise Boris Johnson on trust or come across as a serious alternative when you are using phrases like Prime Minister Jo Swinson.MarqueeMark said:
And what did they print? "Meet Prime Minister Jo Swinson".MikeSmithson said:One way the LDs keep costs down is that in many seats they do all their own printing - so the costs are just paper and ink plus hire of the printing machine.
And 1 in 4 of their voters went walkabout.
The Lib Dems had a great opportunity. All they needed to do is unequivocally say they want a second referendum while backing Remain. They could even have been cheeky - acknowledge that they are not going to win a majority but then suggest neither is Jeremy Corbyn and a vote for the Liberal Democrats would provide seats for them to moderate and restrain the worst excesses of the larger parties. That could have sounded like a sane alternative . . . instead she went for 'I will be Prime Minister and revoke without a referendum'.
Turns out people don’t necessarily agree (literally) with the petitions that they sign and, even if they do, they are sometimes shocked when political parties do too.0 -
These are interesting, not least for what the public actually noticed in the campaign! Spoiler - not much.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/#more-162830 -
Will YouGov be releasing their MRP predictions for each constituency this time, with CIs?0
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"Vile", "odious, "slimey", "capitalist". Interesting choice of words you have there. Sure you don't want to throw in "scheming" or "parasitical"?nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .0 -
Aaron must have had a very nasty shock when the resident in the picture at the top of this thread opened his front door to him ... at first glance he looks a dead ringer for Jeremy Corbyn!0
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Equally to Mogg, but even more than Bozo, in my particular case. Bozo is a liar and a fraud, but one feels he might be fun to share a glass of something while listening to him tell funny stories about his favourite subject, himself.Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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No.wooliedyed said:
I had an ickle dribble on the Tories in Edinburgh SW. Have I wasted my pound?Alistair said:
Interesting. I really had this down as a very safe hold.NorthCadboll said:
Information from a couple of well placed Liberal sources I am pally with. Also confirms what my SCon contacts are telling me. Jamie himself told me a fortnight ago he is very worried about the SNP retaking the seat.Alistair said:
Is this statement based on information or wish fulfillment?NorthCadboll said:Good afternoon fellow PBers. It is well seeing that Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross is seen as one of the key marginals in Scotland. I have just had the 6th and 7th pieces of literature from/on behalf of Jamie Stone with barcharts everywhere. Liberals must be throwing a fortune at this seat, possibly because their canvas returns are showing the unionist vote swinging solidly behind the SCons.
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Brexit (even at its worst) would be no way near as damaging as Corbyn and i'm sure you know that.Nigel_Foremain said:
Brexit is just as barmy, just as potentially damaging; possibly more so long term, and I say that as an ex Conservative party member and activist . If Corbyn stands any chance of getting near power it is the idiot Brexiteers who have given him that chance. Well done idiots, you have reduced the Conservative Party to being the party of the economically illiterate and only slightly less stupid than Corbyn's Labour Party.
And besides there is a democratic mechanism to rejoin the EU.
There is no turning back once the hundreds of billions have been spent...and we all know that as the election after this one approached there would be hundreds more spent bribing the electorate.
Your grand-kids and their kids are going to be the ones paying for it Nigel; you're loading up THEIR credit card with YOUR debt.
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Corbyn was elected leader before Brexit. And he’s just a radical symptom of a world wide phenomenon: left and right populism surging in the face of globalisation. Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Corbyn, Salvini, Orban, the SNP, Sanders, Catalan nationalism etc etc etc, are all fruit hanging from the same tree, which has its roots in social immobility, stagnant working class wages, the rise of China, identity politics, mass migration...Nigel_Foremain said:
Brexit is just as barmy, just as potentially damaging; possibly more so long term, and I say that as an ex Conservative party member and activist . If Corbyn stands any chance of getting near power it is the idiot Brexiteers who have given him that chance. Well done idiots, you have reduced the Conservative Party to being the party of the economically illiterate and only slightly less stupid than Corbyn's Labour Party.SunnyJim said:
How deranged would you need to be to ever consider the EU to be worth what Labour will do to the country.Byronic said:
Yes, that’s the worry. It’s now clear who you have to vote for, to stop Brexit. And it’s Jeremy bloody Corbyn.
There must be lots of anguished Remainers out there, staring at Corbyn’s economic policies and wondering if the risk is worth it.
It is utterly barmy.
Your analysis is crass, asinine and dim.0 -
He also has what the Germans call a backpfeifengesichtCyclefree said:
He has no empathy, is a liar and arrogant. Reasons enough to dislike him.nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .0 -
I completely understand why people dislike him. I criticised his actions on the Dunn case myself. But there is a particularly visceral dislike among some on PB and Twitter.Cyclefree said:
He has no empathy, is a liar and arrogant. Reasons enough to dislike him.nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .0 -
Yes, the Tories should go hard on the economy and spend the last two weeks ripping apart Labour’s economic and fiscal case.Cyclefree said:
Those are assertions rather than arguments. Patiently demolishing each of the manifesto promises, showing their absurdities, the unintended and harmful consequences, asking the questions to which your opponents have no answer, showing the contradictions between what Labour are saying and what Labour are promising are what's needed.Richard_Tyndall said:
How do you argue when the arguments that should be overwhelming such as the Opposition being patently unfit for office count for nothing? If Corbyn being an anti-semite marxist who will bankrupt us all is not enough then what would you suggest is?Cyclefree said:
The Tory campaign has been lazy. They've forgotten how to argue, how to make a case, how to demolish an opponent's case.Richard_Nabavi said:
I meant they should have already hammered home the message, so that when the Waspi bung appeared it would have been universally met with the derision it deserves, without the Tories needing to do much more.RobD said:
How do you counter it effectively without reminding 3+ million people they can get £30k for just ticking a box?Richard_Nabavi said:The lunatic Waspi bung should have immediately backfired badly for Labour. That it didn't shows that the Tories have failed to hammer home the fantastical nature of Labour's spending promises.
Clearly lots of people don't think Labour is unfit for office. So merely saying it achieves nothing. Saying why in terms that make sense to people is what's needed. Shouting "Marxist" does not help. Stating that a tax policy will take away this much money from people on this low income e.g. the marriage tax allowance or that this promise cannot be paid without taxing you etc are what's needed.
Show the bungs to be a complete chimera that we’ll all end up paying for but, stick with them, and real sustainable rewards will come.0 -
Being a shit knows no ethnic boundaries.Gabs3 said:
"Vile", "odious, "slimey", "capitalist". Interesting choice of words you have there. Sure you don't want to throw in "scheming" or "parasitical"?nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .
Raab seems to be a grade A example.
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It would be the ultimate proof of the politically over engaged thinking they represented mainstream public opinion. Change UK/TIG made the same mistake.Byronic said:
Look at the Libs again. Down 3. Beyond MOEBig_G_NorthWales said:
That should calm conservative nerves in view of the survey datesrottenborough said:
Is it possible they could actually LOSE seats?
OGH seems to have backed the Lib Dems in every way possible. Didn't he say he made them EVS to take John Redwoods seat?0 -
If the Lib Dems are going to add a lot of votes coming second in the SE, then that 13% won't go very far elsewhere...!AlastairMeeks said:
You didn't link to the tweet in that thread that most matches my anecdotal experience:TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/11993819403544043530 -
There's an award for this? Who knew? Don't tell Boris for goodness sake.Henrietta said:May I nominate Adam Price of Plaid Cymru for the Manspreader of the Year Award? His intervew with Jo Coburn of the BBC shouldn't be missed. He sat with his feet a yard apart, toes pointed in opposite directions, and kept bouncing on his seat aiming his crotch in Jo's direction. Top work!
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Far from it. A rational Remainer - and let's face it most of them are - will know that the best that Labour can possibly do at this GE is minority government in a hung parliament. Such an administration, Corbyn or no Corbyn, will in practice be able to implement just one of their flagship radical policies - a second EU referendum. This policy is known in common parlance as "A great opportunity to stop Brexit. Indeed the only opportunity we will ever have to do so."SunnyJim said:How deranged would you need to be to ever consider the EU to be worth what Labour will do to the country.
It is utterly barmy.2 -
Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I hate Mogg way more. Probably hate Raab the least out of those three actually. He's too dull to really loathe. Gove is a Scottish Tory and therefore an abomination against nature. Mogg is a useful reminder not to send your kids to private school. Raab is just a boring suburban Thatcherite straight out of central casting. All the likeable Tories seem to have left the party TBH. Javid seems all right, if even more boring than Raab, but I'd still never vote for him, obvs.Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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Nearly evening all
I'm left with this thought moving forward - the new Conservative voting coalition seems made up of two significant components - those who voted LEAVE in 2016 and want to "get Brexit done" - translated as make sure we actually do leave.
The second group are those either hostile to or terrified of Corbyn who see the only way to stop him is to vote Conservative.
That's fine and will probably win Boris a substantial victory next month.
For me, the problem is in the longer term - once Brexit is delivered and Corbyn has been assigned to the footnote of history, what then? Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?0 -
Interesting table in that about what voters biggest fear is about each party, split by previous voting groups.Time_to_Leave said:These are interesting, not least for what the public actually noticed in the campaign! Spoiler - not much.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/#more-16283
All but one of the groups (Lab 2017 voters, who voted Remain) say Corbyn as PM is their biggest fear.
No groups say Johnson as PM is their biggest fear.
Kinnock 1992 effect in play?0 -
Still a way behind, but explains some of the Labour rise:Time_to_Leave said:These are interesting, not least for what the public actually noticed in the campaign! Spoiler - not much.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/#more-16283
"Overall, 2017 Conservatives put their likelihood of staying with the party up a point at 77, with 2017 Labour voters’ chance of voting the same way again up from 55 to 60."0 -
loathe is a batter word than hate. I don't think you actually hate him anyway, if you do I feel very sorry for you./OnlyLivingBoy said:Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I hate Mogg way more. Probably hate Raab the least out of those three actually. He's too dull to really loathe. Gove is a Scottish Tory and therefore an abomination against nature. Mogg is a useful reminder not to send your kids to private school. Raab is just a boring suburban Thatcherite straight out of central casting. All the likeable Tories seem to have left the party TBH. Javid seems all right, if even more boring than Raab, but I'd still never vote for him, obvs.Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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Stop talking tosh . And stop casting assertions over people because they don’t like certain politicians . I also detest Mogg and the ERG .Gabs3 said:
"Vile", "odious, "slimey", "capitalist". Interesting choice of words you have there. Sure you don't want to throw in "scheming" or "parasitical"?nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .
What will you infer from that !0 -
Anyone calling someone's analysis crass and dim while still believing in Brexit is ironic in the extreme. I hope you get all you want from Father Christmas, or the tooth fairy, but try not to be too disappointed deary! Night night!Byronic said:
Corbyn was elected leader before Brexit. And he’s just a radical symptom of a world wide phenomenon: left and right populism surging in the face of globalisation. Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Corbyn, Salvini, Orban, the SNP, Sanders, Catalan nationalism etc etc etc, are all fruit hanging from the same tree, which has its roots in social immobility, stagnant working class wages, the rise of China, identity politics, mass migration...Nigel_Foremain said:
Brexit is just as barmy, just as potentially damaging; possibly more so long term, and I say that as an ex Conservative party member and activist . If Corbyn stands any chance of getting near power it is the idiot Brexiteers who have given him that chance. Well done idiots, you have reduced the Conservative Party to being the party of the economically illiterate and only slightly less stupid than Corbyn's Labour Party.SunnyJim said:
How deranged would you need to be to ever consider the EU to be worth what Labour will do to the country.Byronic said:
Yes, that’s the worry. It’s now clear who you have to vote for, to stop Brexit. And it’s Jeremy bloody Corbyn.
There must be lots of anguished Remainers out there, staring at Corbyn’s economic policies and wondering if the risk is worth it.
It is utterly barmy.
Your analysis is crass, asinine and dim.0 -
The election has developed not necessarily to the Lib Dem’s advantage.Byronic said:From the FT piece on the Libs (£)
“The mood in the Lib Dem camp is one of “concern, close to despair”, according to one senior party figure, and is in contrast to the bullish mood of the summer when the Lib Dems were confidently predicting they would win between 60 to 80 seats in the 650-strong Westminster parliament.“0 -
Also showed the SNP on 50 seats.RobD said:
Yes, the headlines from 2017 were posted earlier today.CorrectHorseBattery said:Can anyone remind me. Did the first MRP poll on 2017 show a Hung Parliament?
One of the reasons I believe is that they didn't weight by IndyRef result.0 -
Watch the interview. Price has set a very high bar. Boris couldn't perform at that level. Price practically...well...just watch it... Top stuff. If a bloke sat opposite me on the Tube started with body language like that, I'd be scared.DavidL said:
There's an award for this? Who knew? Don't tell Boris for goodness sake.Henrietta said:May I nominate Adam Price of Plaid Cymru for the Manspreader of the Year Award? His intervew with Jo Coburn of the BBC shouldn't be missed. He sat with his feet a yard apart, toes pointed in opposite directions, and kept bouncing on his seat aiming his crotch in Jo's direction. Top work!
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Imagine Lewis Goodall saying something positive for the Tories.TheWhiteRabbit said:
If the Lib Dems are going to add a lot of votes coming second in the SE, then that 13% won't go very far elsewhere...!AlastairMeeks said:
You didn't link to the tweet in that thread that most matches my anecdotal experience:TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1199381940354404353
Nahhh, couldn't happen!0 -
As you're posting it and are particularly concerned about anti-semitism, I assume he's of Jewish background, but I wouldn't have known or cared, and really doubt if many people of any persuasion would. Also, is he really particularly hated?Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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Do you have any real evidence for that ?Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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As long as Corbyn and his fellow travellers are removed from the picture i'd be more than happy for a 97-00 Blair-type Labour government.stodge said:Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?
And i'm a Tory.0 -
This time in GE 2017 (D-16) Panelbase released a poll that showed:Big_G_NorthWales said:
That should calm conservative nerves in view of the survey datesrottenborough said:
Con 48% / Lab 33% / UKIP 4% / LDs 7%
Just saying
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Ahem. I think you will find you are more than a bit out of date with that. This will be yet another election where the Tories in Scotland will get more votes than Labour.OnlyLivingBoy said:Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
Gove is a Scottish Tory and therefore an abomination against nature.Gabs3 said:
People seem to hate Raab way more than they hate Gove or Mogg.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, he's a dick, same way Jacob Rees-Mogg or Michael Gove get criticism.Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
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In practical terms majority is nearer 40Barnesian said:Latest YouGov hardly moves the dial
Con/Lab/LD
340/213/30
Tory majority 30
Sutton Cheam moves out of LD column back to Tory column
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing0 -
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You really win hearts and minds with your posting style.Nigel_Foremain said:
Brexit is just as barmy, just as potentially damaging; possibly more so long term, and I say that as an ex Conservative party member and activist . If Corbyn stands any chance of getting near power it is the idiot Brexiteers who have given him that chance. Well done idiots, you have reduced the Conservative Party to being the party of the economically illiterate and only slightly less stupid than Corbyn's Labour Party.SunnyJim said:
How deranged would you need to be to ever consider the EU to be worth what Labour will do to the country.Byronic said:
Yes, that’s the worry. It’s now clear who you have to vote for, to stop Brexit. And it’s Jeremy bloody Corbyn.
There must be lots of anguished Remainers out there, staring at Corbyn’s economic policies and wondering if the risk is worth it.
It is utterly barmy.0 -
Are we comparing the same polling companies?Benpointer said:
This time in GE 2017 (D-16) Panelbase released a poll that showed:
Con 48% / Lab 33% / UKIP 4% / LDs 7%
Just saying0 -
Benpointer said:
This time in GE 2017 (D-16) Panelbase released a poll that showed:
Con 48% / Lab 33% / UKIP 4% / LDs 7%
Just saying
True, but the average lead was around 11% at this stage, and had been falling hard for a fair while beforehand. If it's going to do the same now, it's going to be much more sudden, compared to a fairly flat lead so far.
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I'm exactly the same. But the only way we'll get one is a 1983-style wipeout of Labour, and unlike 1983, promising the earth now works on enough of the electorate to prevent a Labour wipeout...SunnyJim said:
As long as Corbyn and his fellow travellers are removed from the picture i'd be more than happy for a 97-00 Blair-type Labour government.stodge said:Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?
And i'm a Tory.0 -
This must be one of those irregular verbs:Nigel_Foremain said:
Your partisan schadenfreude might turn out to be prematureCasino_Royale said:
It was but hindsight is a wonderful thing and, at the time, I thought they might hover up most of the 20% of the electorate that was up for Revoke off the back of it.Byronic said:
Yes, Revoke was a terrible error. I see that the LDs acknowledge this in the FT todayPhilip_Thompson said:
Pretty hard to criticise Boris Johnson on trust or come across as a serious alternative when you are using phrases like Prime Minister Jo Swinson.MarqueeMark said:
And what did they print? "Meet Prime Minister Jo Swinson".MikeSmithson said:One way the LDs keep costs down is that in many seats they do all their own printing - so the costs are just paper and ink plus hire of the printing machine.
And 1 in 4 of their voters went walkabout.
The Lib Dems had a great opportunity. All they needed to do is unequivocally say they want a second referendum while backing Remain. They could even have been cheeky - acknowledge that they are not going to win a majority but then suggest neither is Jeremy Corbyn and a vote for the Liberal Democrats would provide seats for them to moderate and restrain the worst excesses of the larger parties. That could have sounded like a sane alternative . . . instead she went for 'I will be Prime Minister and revoke without a referendum'.
Turns out people don’t necessarily agree (literally) with the petitions that they sign and, even if they do, they are sometimes shocked when political parties do too.
I’m a partisan poster
You’re an objective commentator
He’s a subjective fool prone to confirmation bias0 -
Let's fight one war at a time, eh?stodge said:Nearly evening all
I'm left with this thought moving forward - the new Conservative voting coalition seems made up of two significant components - those who voted LEAVE in 2016 and want to "get Brexit done" - translated as make sure we actually do leave.
The second group are those either hostile to or terrified of Corbyn who see the only way to stop him is to vote Conservative.
That's fine and will probably win Boris a substantial victory next month.
For me, the problem is in the longer term - once Brexit is delivered and Corbyn has been assigned to the footnote of history, what then? Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?0 -
There are a lot of Labour supporters who are very anti-Semitic. The Tories have their own problem with Islamophobia but Labour are doing nothing about anti Semitism apart from a "Shami" enquiry that "cleared" the Labour Party.NickPalmer said:
As you're posting it and are particularly concerned about anti-semitism, I assume he's of Jewish background, but I wouldn't have known or cared, and really doubt if many people of any persuasion would. Also, is he really particularly hated?Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
If the leader of the Jews is as outspoken as he has been , you cannot attempt to sweep it under the carpet. (well you can but it will not wash.)
You are just trying to take the heat off Labour with a comment like that.0 -
Oh ffs calm down man.FrancisUrquhart said:
Tories look like they have definitely hit that 42% ceiling. I don't see any reason why Labour will go backwards from here on in. All the antisemitism stuff is priced in, and Tories / Lib Dems are having a crap campaign.Alistair said:
Hmmm, the red line is... Surging?RobD said:And hot off the presses, the updated tracker -- https://imgur.com/oUjR66V
Squeaky bum time.0 -
Any indications on how the Labour leadership is going to respond to the SWR train strike next week? Very difficult to believe such a prolonged action won’t have some effect in the affected areas?0
-
They've exhausted themselves with the years of squabbling amongst themselves. I'm mostly hiding behind the sofa.Cyclefree said:
The Tory campaign has been lazy. They've forgotten how to argue, how to make a case, how to demolish an opponent's case.Richard_Nabavi said:
I meant they should have already hammered home the message, so that when the Waspi bung appeared it would have been universally met with the derision it deserves, without the Tories needing to do much more.RobD said:
How do you counter it effectively without reminding 3+ million people they can get £30k for just ticking a box?Richard_Nabavi said:The lunatic Waspi bung should have immediately backfired badly for Labour. That it didn't shows that the Tories have failed to hammer home the fantastical nature of Labour's spending promises.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Quite - the real winning post for a practical majority is 320: 650 - Speaker - 3 deputies - 7 Sinn Fein = 639. 639/2 = 319.5.Big_G_NorthWales said:
In practical terms majority is nearer 40Barnesian said:Latest YouGov hardly moves the dial
Con/Lab/LD
340/213/30
Tory majority 30
Sutton Cheam moves out of LD column back to Tory column
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing0 -
I’m very anti the Israeli government and especially Netenyahu who is destroying any chance of a two state solution . I have nothing against Jewish people . I think that’s where the vast majority of the Labour Party is .squareroot2 said:
There are a lopt of Labour supporters who are very anti-Semitic. The Tories have their own problem with islamophobia but Labour are doing nothing about anti Semitism apart from a "Shami" enquiry that "cleared" the Labour Party.NickPalmer said:
As you're posting it and are particularly concerned about anti-semitism, I assume he's of Jewish background, but I wouldn't have known or cared, and really doubt if many people of any persuasion would. Also, is he really particularly hated?Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
If the leader of the Jews is as outspoken as he has been , you cannot attempt to sweep it under the carpet
You are just trying to take the heat off Labour with a comment like that.0 -
I think it's reasonable to look ahead beyond 12/12. I suspect it won't be long before the Conservatives hit their mid-term trough but so much will depend on how Labour react to defeat.MarqueeMark said:
Let's fight one war at a time, eh?
0 -
So was Tony, ask anyone still in the Labour party.SunnyJim said:
As long as Corbyn and his fellow travellers are removed from the picture i'd be more than happy for a 97-00 Blair-type Labour government.stodge said:Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?
And i'm a Tory.0 -
Nationalised rail will see no strikes because the government will treat the workers brilliantly unlike those vile capitalists.alex_ said:Any indications on how the Labour leadership is going to respond to the SWR train strike next week? Very difficult to believe such a prolonged action won’t have some effect in the affected areas?
0 -
Sky/YouGov poll is ok for us - we'll take 10 to 11% lead all night (or fortnight
) long!
0 -
It says nothing. A couple of days ago there was a poll with a 19 point Tory lead. Equally useless since it was from another company when comparing with a YouGov poll. The Yougov polls at the same point in 2017 showed between 9% and 5% lead.Benpointer said:
This time in GE 2017 (D-16) Panelbase released a poll that showed:Big_G_NorthWales said:
That should calm conservative nerves in view of the survey datesrottenborough said:
Con 48% / Lab 33% / UKIP 4% / LDs 7%
Just saying0 -
Baxterising this YouGov poll with Scottish adjustment, produces:nova said:
Or a 9pt YouGov lead depending on which way you lookBrom said:
Cue Labour supporters now shitting the bed.RobD said:
Not too bad.rottenborough said:
Yougov was 5% lead at roughly this point in 2017.
Con .............349
Lab ............. 218
LidUnDem .... 15
Brexit ............ 0
SNP .............. 45
Green ............ 1
Plaid .............. 4
N.I. .............. 18
Total ........... 650
Con Maj ........ 480 -
CON unlikely to poll above 43%, or LAB below 32%, so we are loving it with a 11% lead!0
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This in particular is symptomatic of the near complete failure of the Conservatives, so far, to lay a glove on Labour on tax and the economy:Time_to_Leave said:These are interesting, not least for what the public actually noticed in the campaign! Spoiler - not much.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/11/would-you-vote-tactically-what-worries-you-most-about-a-tory-or-labour-government-what-would-actually-happen-under-johnson-or-corbyn-week-3-of-my-general-election-dashboard/#more-16283
“The chances of “higher taxes for people like me” were thought to be only slightly higher under Labour (58/100) than under another Conservative government (51/100).”1 -
Paging @Scrapheap_as_was, note number 1 on this list
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/11993884268706775081 -
Adam Price is gay.Henrietta said:
Watch the interview. Price has set a very high bar. Boris couldn't perform at that level. Price practically...well...just watch it... Top stuff. If a bloke sat opposite me on the Tube started with body language like that, I'd be scared.DavidL said:
There's an award for this? Who knew? Don't tell Boris for goodness sake.Henrietta said:May I nominate Adam Price of Plaid Cymru for the Manspreader of the Year Award? His intervew with Jo Coburn of the BBC shouldn't be missed. He sat with his feet a yard apart, toes pointed in opposite directions, and kept bouncing on his seat aiming his crotch in Jo's direction. Top work!
I don't see why you would have much to be scared about if he sat opposite to you on the tube.0 -
I doubt it. I am not of the left, and not many are in leafy Surrey where I live. But he is widely reviled, even by Conservatives who will cast a tribal vote for him, because of his revolting personality. Can you imagine many other MPs who would have their heavies physically prevent bereaved parents from attending a meeting and then harangue them on leaving?Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
0 -
Brexit might be "consigned to the footnote of history", or there might be an ongoing struggle to rejoin the EU. I'm sure Jo Swinson's LibDems would be right on that, although Lab and Con might be glad to see the back of the topic.stodge said:Nearly evening all
I'm left with this thought moving forward - the new Conservative voting coalition seems made up of two significant components - those who voted LEAVE in 2016 and want to "get Brexit done" - translated as make sure we actually do leave.
The second group are those either hostile to or terrified of Corbyn who see the only way to stop him is to vote Conservative.
That's fine and will probably win Boris a substantial victory next month.
For me, the problem is in the longer term - once Brexit is delivered and Corbyn has been assigned to the footnote of history, what then? Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?0 -
But don't two of those deputies come from the overall Conservative column?BluerBlue said:
Quite - the real winning post for a practical majority is 320: 650 - Speaker - 3 deputies - 7 Sinn Fein = 639. 639/2 = 319.5.Big_G_NorthWales said:
In practical terms majority is nearer 40Barnesian said:Latest YouGov hardly moves the dial
Con/Lab/LD
340/213/30
Tory majority 30
Sutton Cheam moves out of LD column back to Tory column
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing
Hoyle is running as Speaker...no one is running as Deputy Speaker.
If so, I guess you need to win 322 seats on the night?0 -
How many Uber drivers are there in London? Could this have an anti labour impact?0
-
I’d say right now something like Tories 41% Labour 35% and LDs 10% on polling day.
Tories to get a small majority due to performance in the right marginals and good defence against the SNP.
This forecast will self-destruct in five seconds.0 -
45,000 Uber drivers in London.alex_ said:How many Uber drivers are there in London? Could this have an anti labour impact?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-505442830 -
It makes no difference. No one believes a word politicians say anymore. After all, if vast swathes of them can lie about carrying out Brexit at the last election why should anyone believe what they say this time around? Basically the failure to accept the public vote in 2016 has broken politics in this country completely. Which is why Corbyn can get away with saying anything he likes and no argument against him will work.Cyclefree said:
Those are assertions rather than arguments. Patiently demolishing each of the manifesto promises, showing their absurdities, the unintended and harmful consequences, asking the questions to which your opponents have no answer, showing the contradictions between what Labour are saying and what Labour are promising are what's needed.Richard_Tyndall said:
How do you argue when the arguments that should be overwhelming such as the Opposition being patently unfit for office count for nothing? If Corbyn being an anti-semite marxist who will bankrupt us all is not enough then what would you suggest is?Cyclefree said:
The Tory campaign has been lazy. They've forgotten how to argue, how to make a case, how to demolish an opponent's case.Richard_Nabavi said:
I meant they should have already hammered home the message, so that when the Waspi bung appeared it would have been universally met with the derision it deserves, without the Tories needing to do much more.RobD said:
How do you counter it effectively without reminding 3+ million people they can get £30k for just ticking a box?Richard_Nabavi said:The lunatic Waspi bung should have immediately backfired badly for Labour. That it didn't shows that the Tories have failed to hammer home the fantastical nature of Labour's spending promises.
Clearly lots of people don't think Labour is unfit for office. So merely saying it achieves nothing. Saying why in terms that make sense to people is what's needed. Shouting "Marxist" does not help. Stating that a tax policy will take away this much money from people on this low income e.g. the marriage tax allowance or that this promise cannot be paid without taxing you etc are what's needed.2 -
Con gain Bootle is more likely than a small Tory majority IMHO.Casino_Royale said:I’d say right now something like Tories 41% Labour 35% and LDs 10% on polling day.
Tories to get a small majority due to performance in the right marginals and good defence against the SNP.
This forecast will self-destruct in five seconds.0 -
I used to be skeptical of this idea: of rooted widespread anti-semitism in Labour. But now I believe it. There’s just too many examples, and some of it is quite outrageousnico67 said:
I’m very anti the Israeli government and especially Netenyahu who is destroying any chance of a two state solution . I have nothing against Jewish people . I think that’s where the vast majority of the Labour Party is .squareroot2 said:
There are a lopt of Labour supporters who are very anti-Semitic. The Tories have their own problem with islamophobia but Labour are doing nothing about anti Semitism apart from a "Shami" enquiry that "cleared" the Labour Party.NickPalmer said:
As you're posting it and are particularly concerned about anti-semitism, I assume he's of Jewish background, but I wouldn't have known or cared, and really doubt if many people of any persuasion would. Also, is he really particularly hated?Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
If the leader of the Jews is as outspoken as he has been , you cannot attempt to sweep it under the carpet
You are just trying to take the heat off Labour with a comment like that.
My theory is that Corbyn imported the worst of it, when he became leader with his £3 members. There is a far left faction which has normalized Jew-hatred over decades, conflating it with anti-Zionism. They are often allied with radical Islam, which is obviously problematic. This far left faction moved into Labour to elect Corbyn, and they brought their anti Semitic baggage with them.
Now they are there it will be very hard to root it out, and I see zero real effort to do so. Corbyn seems to prefer attacking the messenger. He doesn’t believe there is a problem and he wouldn’t really care if there was
Tragic, really.0 -
My view is we’ll move ever closer to the EU (from the outside) under future LD/Labour government’s without ever actually de jure re-joining it.PaulM said:
Brexit might be "consigned to the footnote of history", or there might be an ongoing struggle to rejoin the EU. I'm sure Jo Swinson's LibDems would be right on that, although Lab and Con might be glad to see the back of the topic.stodge said:Nearly evening all
I'm left with this thought moving forward - the new Conservative voting coalition seems made up of two significant components - those who voted LEAVE in 2016 and want to "get Brexit done" - translated as make sure we actually do leave.
The second group are those either hostile to or terrified of Corbyn who see the only way to stop him is to vote Conservative.
That's fine and will probably win Boris a substantial victory next month.
For me, the problem is in the longer term - once Brexit is delivered and Corbyn has been assigned to the footnote of history, what then? Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?0 -
"Jeremy Corbyn has declined to apologise to the British Jewish community following criticism from the chief rabbi over how the party deals with anti-Semitism claims.
In an interview with the BBC's Andrew Neil, the Labour leader was asked four times whether he would like to apologise.
Mr Corbyn said he was "determined that our society is safe" for "all faiths" - but did not directly apologise."0 -
You think it'll be hung?TheScreamingEagles said:
Con gain Bootle is more likely than a small Tory majority IMHO.Casino_Royale said:I’d say right now something like Tories 41% Labour 35% and LDs 10% on polling day.
Tories to get a small majority due to performance in the right marginals and good defence against the SNP.
This forecast will self-destruct in five seconds.0 -
Casino_Royale said:
I’d say right now something like Tories 41% Labour 35% and LDs 10% on polling day.
Tories to get a small majority due to performance in the right marginals and good defence against the SNP.
This forecast will self-destruct in five seconds.
That will mean a long night/morning/day on 13 Dec !
All is plausible especially Scotland.
0 -
No, whilst the lead is shrinking, it is substantial.RobD said:
You think it'll be hung?TheScreamingEagles said:
Con gain Bootle is more likely than a small Tory majority IMHO.Casino_Royale said:I’d say right now something like Tories 41% Labour 35% and LDs 10% on polling day.
Tories to get a small majority due to performance in the right marginals and good defence against the SNP.
This forecast will self-destruct in five seconds.
The biggest obstacle to a Tory majority will be the weather.0 -
Like Dominic Raab, I'm half Jewish. Please, stop. This kind of absurd, hysterical wolf-crying is exactly the kind of thing that will make people take claims of antisemitism less seriously.Gabs3 said:
I completely understand why people dislike him. I criticised his actions on the Dunn case myself. But there is a particularly visceral dislike among some on PB and Twitter.Cyclefree said:
He has no empathy, is a liar and arrogant. Reasons enough to dislike him.nico67 said:
No he’s despised because he’s a vile odious slimebag. And he wants capitalism on steroids .Gabs3 said:I can't help but wonder if the particular hatred of Dominic Raab from the left is motivated by his ethnic heritage.
I could care less about his heritage . The fact hes also willing to sue the Dunn family for legal costs shows what a lowlife he is .1 -
Richard_Tyndall said:
It says nothing. A couple of days ago there was a poll with a 19 point Tory lead. Equally useless since it was from another company when comparing with a YouGov poll. The Yougov polls at the same point in 2017 showed between 9% and 5% lead.Benpointer said:
This time in GE 2017 (D-16) Panelbase released a poll that showed:Big_G_NorthWales said:
That should calm conservative nerves in view of the survey datesrottenborough said:
Con 48% / Lab 33% / UKIP 4% / LDs 7%
Just saying
What makes us think the poll profile rate of erosion must be equivalent to GE2017 as a rule of law? Ergo, because the “buffer” is higher at this stage of the game, the Tories will be ok?
It could be the same, or it could drop off more steeply, or bounce back, or just go nowhere.
There are no laws.0 -
It’s the customers that count. 3.5m people in London use Uber and most of them really like it.TheScreamingEagles said:
45,000 Uber drivers in London.alex_ said:How many Uber drivers are there in London? Could this have an anti labour impact?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50544283
Khan must hope that Uber win the appeal, or any ban happens after the mayoral election0 -
LATEST: The Hindu Council has now written to the Chief Rabbi to express their support and to accuse the Labour Party of also becoming anti-Hindu. Major interventions in this election today from pretty much every major faith in Britain. Astonishing. https://t.co/J4fRtvIOLw0
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Yes - 37 if seven SF are returned. There could be three less SF so practical majority of 34.Big_G_NorthWales said:
In practical terms majority is nearer 40Barnesian said:Latest YouGov hardly moves the dial
Con/Lab/LD
340/213/30
Tory majority 30
Sutton Cheam moves out of LD column back to Tory column
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing0 -
That's a shame, as Andrew and Trump would have a LOT to talk about.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Good catch. Yes, 322 = majority of 1 in that case.MarkLittlewood said:
But don't two of those deputies come from the overall Conservative column?BluerBlue said:
Quite - the real winning post for a practical majority is 320: 650 - Speaker - 3 deputies - 7 Sinn Fein = 639. 639/2 = 319.5.Big_G_NorthWales said:
In practical terms majority is nearer 40Barnesian said:Latest YouGov hardly moves the dial
Con/Lab/LD
340/213/30
Tory majority 30
Sutton Cheam moves out of LD column back to Tory column
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing
Hoyle is running as Speaker...no one is running as Deputy Speaker.
If so, I guess you need to win 322 seats on the night?
Having said that, I don't see why in our multi-party age we shouldn't break with convention to offer the SNP and LDs the privilege of holding Deputy Speakerships... 0 -
That would be very close to the 1992 result, except the LDs a bit lowerCasino_Royale said:I’d say right now something like Tories 41% Labour 35% and LDs 10% on polling day.
Tories to get a small majority due to performance in the right marginals and good defence against the SNP.
This forecast will self-destruct in five seconds.0 -
I get minicabs five or six days a week. Many but not all drivers are also working for Uber. If Uber does not get its licence back, I'd imagine the Uber drivers would revert to being straight minicab drivers. You won't see 45,000 added to the dole queue.TheScreamingEagles said:
45,000 Uber drivers in London.alex_ said:How many Uber drivers are there in London? Could this have an anti labour impact?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-505442830 -
Fair enough but sticking to Panelbase:Richard_Tyndall said:
It says nothing. A couple of days ago there was a poll with a 19 point Tory lead. Equally useless since it was from another company when comparing with a YouGov poll. The Yougov polls at the same point in 2017 showed between 9% and 5% lead.Benpointer said:
This time in GE 2017 (D-16) Panelbase released a poll that showed:Big_G_NorthWales said:
That should calm conservative nerves in view of the survey datesrottenborough said:
Con 48% / Lab 33% / UKIP 4% / LDs 7%
Just saying
Panelbase GE17 Tory lead on D-16 = 15%
Panelbase GE19 Tory lead on D-20* = 10% (*the latest GE19 Panelbase we have)
Or with ICM:
ICM GE17 Tory lead on D-18 = 14%
ICM GE19 Tory lead on D-17 = 7%
My point is not that the Tories are not doing better than GE17 (they are) but that it's not over yet.0 -
Inspiring to see a united front, just sad that it's necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:LATEST: The Hindu Council has now written to the Chief Rabbi to express their support and to accuse the Labour Party of also becoming anti-Hindu. Major interventions in this election today from pretty much every major faith in Britain. Astonishing. https://t.co/J4fRtvIOLw
1 -
The piece I'm currently writing for PB isCasino_Royale said:
My view is we’ll move ever closer to the EU (from the outside) under future LD/Labour government’s without ever actually de jure re-joining it.PaulM said:
Brexit might be "consigned to the footnote of history", or there might be an ongoing struggle to rejoin the EU. I'm sure Jo Swinson's LibDems would be right on that, although Lab and Con might be glad to see the back of the topic.stodge said:Nearly evening all
I'm left with this thought moving forward - the new Conservative voting coalition seems made up of two significant components - those who voted LEAVE in 2016 and want to "get Brexit done" - translated as make sure we actually do leave.
The second group are those either hostile to or terrified of Corbyn who see the only way to stop him is to vote Conservative.
That's fine and will probably win Boris a substantial victory next month.
For me, the problem is in the longer term - once Brexit is delivered and Corbyn has been assigned to the footnote of history, what then? Where is the Conservative vote IF Labour return to the centre ground or is there an expectation that, at the next election and after 14 years in office, normal service will resume and those pro-Remain Conservatives who cannot support the Party this time will return to the fold?
'If you want to ensure the UK's long term membership of the EU vote Conservative on December 12th'
Short version, we'll exit the EU with No Deal next December, sustained No Deal means us rejoining by 2030, once we're back in, we'll never leave, and we'll be fully integrated from the get go.0 -
Could Labour perking up a bit be almost entirely due to the WASPI bung? People who wouldn't vote Labour unless you paid them, are literally getting paid to vote Labour. It would be interesting to see whether their vote share amongst females has increased, though the spouses could well be just as enthused.
There isn't really much the Tories can do. To attack the claim draws more people's attention to the free money.
All they can do is use the fact they've been conservative with the dosh so far, and come out with their own barrel of pork. Something eye catching to steal the agenda.0 -
I'm loath to write the obituary of a campaign that still has two weeks to run but there's been an avalanche of nonsense written about the LD campaign and once we get past 12/12 I'll respond to it.PaulM said:
Brexit might be "consigned to the footnote of history", or there might be an ongoing struggle to rejoin the EU. I'm sure Jo Swinson's LibDems would be right on that, although Lab and Con might be glad to see the back of the topic.
You may be right - so much will depend on the future economic and political relationship hammered out next year. It may be we end up with something very close to BINO or it may be much more distant. I think the former will weaken the desire to campaign to rejoin but if the impact of the latter isn't positive it will strengthen the argument to rejoin.
Those seeking REMAIN have been fighting the wrong battle - they should have agreed to the WA (thus respecting the 2016 Referendum result which merely stated the fact of leaving not the basis) and then campaigned hard for a BINO political declaration and trade deal.0 -
0
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I think that is correct, although Brexit is not the only cause.Richard_Tyndall said:
It makes no difference. No one believes a word politicians say anymore. After all, if vast swathes of them can lie about carrying out Brexit at the last election why should anyone believe what they say this time around? Basically the failure to accept the public vote in 2016 has broken politics in this country completely. Which is why Corbyn can get away with saying anything he likes and no argument against him will work.
The poisonous lies over the Iraq War from New Labour, the pledges over tuition fees from all parties, the failure to hold any one to account over the banking crisis, the "We're all in it together" spiel from Cameron and Clegg as they walk over to multi-million pound jobs. All parties have contributed to a huge corrosion of trust, including those elected on a manifesto to implement Brexit who then spent 3 years doing the opposite.
Corbyn can pretty much offer to bung 30k at all women born between 1950 and 1960, and most people will say (while accepting the money will probably never materialise) that it is no worse than the dishonest actions of other politicians from other parties.0 -
That's a well-designed poster, especially the use of smudgy grey with the black, red, and yellow. How much does it all add up to, compared with the abolition of tuition fees, the introduction of free broadband, and the tightening of rent controls, for the median person who's unlikely to pay much (or any) inheritance tax and who doesn't own a business?TheScreamingEagles said:Paging @Scrapheap_as_was, note number 1 on this list
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/11993884268706775080
