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It would not be quiet, there would be a rummleScott_P said:
It was Nicola Sturgeon that specifically mentioned the FM staying in a hotel years ago.malcolmg said:
Dear Dear , you must be a labour drone to be still banging on about the FM staying in a hotel years ago. Nobody gives a toss , we do not expect him to stay in a motel.
Are you saying she is a Labour drone?
Careful, they might send the boys round for a quiet chat0 -
Did any PBers make any money from Miller's cabinet exit?0
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Is Mr Javid the Conservatives counter-Nuttall baldie? :-)isam said:Paul Nuttalls take on EU's Clever Move on Roaming charges
twitter.com/paulnuttallukip/status/453897993549135873/photo/10 -
Yes...anotherDave said:
Is Mr Javid the Conservatives counter-Nuttall baldie? :-)isam said:Paul Nuttalls take on EU's Clever Move on Roaming charges
twitter.com/paulnuttallukip/status/453897993549135873/photo/1
Think Labours is Chuka and the LDs is Vince!0 -
The Farage strategy was pretty obviously a desperate throw from a leader all out of ideas. Clegg simply doesn't know how to play the election. If he wants to differentiate he can hardly leave it till a few weeks out from polling day as the voter will not buy it for a second. On the other hand differentiating on things nobody cares about will just get him ignored.Grandiose said:
The Lib Dems need to get relevant and be relevant. If they can do that, they can denounce the Tories about banging on about things nobody cares about - topics like Europe, or the plight of the few paying 50p tax - and have a narrative for the campaign.Mick_Pork said:
It's more likely to annoy the rocket sandwiches and delight the tory backbenchers considering what a colossal mess Clegg made of it. Soft differentiation or not it's fairly bizarre to highlight one of your biggest failures.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pork, Clegg raising the Lords is just meant to excite those who delight in rocket sandwiches, and annoy Conservatives backbenchers..
Clegg managed to snag himself a new PR drone not that long ago so if this is the new strategy after the Farage 'triumph' he'll need to give just a touch more substance to the ever dwindling yellows to get them motivated.
For differentiation to be viable he has to start doing it now and he has to mean it. Otherwise the voter will just write it off as vapid posturing.
If Clegg doesn't want to differentiate then he has to own the con dem coalition and bet everything on a still theoretical recovery while actually receiving a still VERY theoretical gratitude from the voter for the economy.
He's trapped and the only thing he seems to know for sure is that he has to protect what he has right now. That would involve a core vote strategy but the fact is that most of the lib dem vote has vanished and shows no sign whatsoever of coming back.
The bottom line is that Clegg is toxic so even if he had a coherent strategy he's the last person who should to be front and centre carrying it out. Because of that fundamental weakness irrelevance is what the lib dems are going to get for the foreseeable future.0 -
Larry the Cat @Number10cat 15m
Sajid Javid has joined the cabinet - that means it now has twice as many bald men than there are women. #CalmDownDear
Only twice as many? - personally I can't think of any bald women in the cabinet.0 -
I did wonder about that. Maybe she's only the Minister for Straight Women?AndyJS said:Cameron didn't give the equality brief to Nicky Morgan because she voted against gay marriage:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/09/downing-street-womens-minister-subordinate-man
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Dunno which polls you're looking at...compouter2 said:
There will be some polling repuations in the dust come the day after the EU results. They are all over the place and they cannot decide between them which party is 1st, 2nd or 3rd.anotherDave said:TNS EU Parliament poll
Con 21%, Lab 30%, LD 9%, UKIP 29%
http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news/labour-and-ukip-fighting-it-out-in-a-two-horse-race-in-the-european-electio
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Jury out in MP Nigel Evans sex abuse trial...0
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According to the Telegraph, Miller is coming under pressure not to accept the £18,000 payoff for leaving the cabinet.0
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Only some of those of faith tend to have a problem with gay marriage, or those using faith based reasoning.
Says more about religion than it does about homosexuality.0 -
Indeed.RodCrosby said:Jury out in MP Nigel Evans sex abuse trial...
96.5RadioWave @965RadioWave 27m
NEWS: The jury in the trial of Lancashire MP Nigel Evans has retired to consider it's verdicts http://www.wave965.com/news/local/jury-out-in-evans-trial/ …
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They shouldn't get it anyway. If I was busted down a rank for whatever reason, I don't get a payoff. Another example of MPs not being in the real world.AndyJS said:According to the Telegraph, Miller is under pressure not to accept the £18,000 payoff for leaving the cabinet.
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No more than say the Minister for Housing would be if he or she opposed same-sex marriage. The responsibility of the Minister for Women is to combat discrimination on the grounds of sex, and possibly gender; the responsibility for combatting discrimination on the grounds of sexuality falls to the equalities minister.TwistedFireStopper said:
I did wonder about that. Maybe she's only the Minister for Straight Women?AndyJS said:Cameron didn't give the equality brief to Nicky Morgan because she voted against gay marriage:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/09/downing-street-womens-minister-subordinate-man0 -
@isam
Nuttall is another fool who doesn't understand the telecoms market. It's a fiercely competitive space and the companies will have to absorb this loss of profits, which were entirely unjustifiable profiteering in any case.
That all said as his column is in the Sunday Sport it is clearly meant only in jest - perhaps as a means to reach out to hamster-eating crossword-solving aliens from the far reaches of the EU.0 -
Strictly speaking, only if you are demoted for incompetence, or some similar problem with doing your job. But that makes your point precisely.TwistedFireStopper said:
They shouldn't get it anyway. If I was busted down a rank for whatever reason, I don't get a payoff. Another example of MPs not being in the real world.AndyJS said:According to the Telegraph, Miller is under pressure not to accept the £18,000 payoff for leaving the cabinet.
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Wow! I never knew that. Glad you cleared that up for me.Grandiose said:
No more than say the Minister for Housing would be if he or she opposed same-sex marriage. The responsibility of the Minister for Women is to combat discrimination on the grounds of sex, and possibly gender; the responsibility for combatting discrimination on the grounds of sexuality falls to the equalities minister.TwistedFireStopper said:
I did wonder about that. Maybe she's only the Minister for Straight Women?AndyJS said:Cameron didn't give the equality brief to Nicky Morgan because she voted against gay marriage:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/09/downing-street-womens-minister-subordinate-man
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Pretty mixed figures on trade today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10754315/British-exports-at-three-and-a-half-year-low.html
Exports down to their lowest level since November 2010 but the trade deficit is falling because imports are falling even faster (import substitution?).
"In the three months to February, the trade deficit has almost halved to £4.8bn, compared with £8.7bn in the previous quarter. In that time, goods exports fell 2.5pc to £72.7bn, while imports of goods dipped 4.7pc to £99bn. "
A net improvement is good for growth but the export figures just aren't. So much to do, so little time.0 -
Surely all of UKIP's support, above their 2010 3%, is soft?isam said:Where has the UKIP support come from?
http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news/where-has-the-ukip-support-come-from-and-will-it-disappear-just-as-quickly
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Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 4hAndyJS said:According to the Telegraph, Miller is coming under pressure not to accept the £18,000 payoff for leaving the cabinet.
Asked if Maria Miller will get severance pay off, PM's official spksman :"That's a matter for individual Members of Parliament"
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It is really bizarre isn't it? She has made it clear the decision to resign was her's alone. Why does she get money?TwistedFireStopper said:
They shouldn't get it anyway. If I was busted down a rank for whatever reason, I don't get a payoff. Another example of MPs not being in the real world.AndyJS said:According to the Telegraph, Miller is under pressure not to accept the £18,000 payoff for leaving the cabinet.
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Accused acquitted in Keith Blakelock trial.0
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No need to be sarcastic. I meant only to elaborate how I, and how I think you should, consider this issue.TwistedFireStopper said:
Wow! I never knew that. Glad you cleared that up for me.Grandiose said:
No more than say the Minister for Housing would be if he or she opposed same-sex marriage. The responsibility of the Minister for Women is to combat discrimination on the grounds of sex, and possibly gender; the responsibility for combatting discrimination on the grounds of sexuality falls to the equalities minister.TwistedFireStopper said:
I did wonder about that. Maybe she's only the Minister for Straight Women?AndyJS said:Cameron didn't give the equality brief to Nicky Morgan because she voted against gay marriage:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/09/downing-street-womens-minister-subordinate-man0 -
@JohnRentoul: Looks as if Nigel Farage may be about to declare as UKIP candidate for Basingstoke. But what if Maria Miller stands down? (Con hold.)0
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Not surprised to hear that YahooMail's security has been compromised. About a year ago I lost ten years worth of emails thanks to them. Switched to Gmail.0
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The same way football managers and players get pay offs for being rubbish at their jobDavidL said:
It is really bizarre isn't it? She has made it clear the decision to resign was her's alone. Why does she get money?TwistedFireStopper said:
They shouldn't get it anyway. If I was busted down a rank for whatever reason, I don't get a payoff. Another example of MPs not being in the real world.AndyJS said:According to the Telegraph, Miller is under pressure not to accept the £18,000 payoff for leaving the cabinet.
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Well jeepers. When you put it like that I can only imagine the gruelling hardship of the 11% pay rise MPs are in line for. You DO realise she isn't actually going to jail don't you?BobaFett said:@TSE
That's because your contract doesn't stipulate that. Presumably hers does. Let the poor woman at least take the payoff after being hounded out if her job by a mob who don't grasp the concept of "not guilty".0 -
Lol,,idiot. He'll get crucified on expenses because he'll campaign on it.Scott_P said:@JohnRentoul: Looks as if Nigel Farage may be about to declare as UKIP candidate for Basingstoke. But what if Maria Miller stands down? (Con hold.)
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@Sean_Kemp: I've just invented a fantastic scenario where Farage says he will run in Basingstoke, Miller stands down and Boris takes her place.0
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Boris by 40%, Farage resigns. UKIP disappear within a year.Scott_P said:@Sean_Kemp: I've just invented a fantastic scenario where Farage says he will run in Basingstoke, Miller stands down and Boris takes her place.
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Behave. 18 grand for being demoted? I know 18 grand only buys a round of drinks in PBMockney land, but that's only a few grand shy of what I take home a year. It's as if politicians want us to hate them.BobaFett said:@TSE
That's because your contract doesn't stipulate that. Presumably hers does. Let the poor woman at least take the payoff after being hounded out if her job by a mob who don't grasp the concept of "not guilty".
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And you are a bounty hunter who was sent into the future and a galaxy far, far away after a rather silly accident involving your jet pack, a mango, a postal ballot and some whale oil. You are now aiding the new dark side to victory over the forces of good and righteousness!BobaFett said:@Josias
No. It means you are a Tory who was once a Liberal. Easy concept to grasp.
Darth Miliband, aided by his henchman robo-Balls, is arrayed against the Jedi forces of Dave Etonwalker and his Padawan, Sajid Javid. The heroes are guided by the mystical voices of the dead Tory Master, Leia ("Maggie") Thatcher.
The comic character is the Gungan Harriet Harman, a creature so ludicrous that she nearly killed the entire series.
Any similarity between Jabba the Hut and Eric Pickles is purely coincidental.0 -
LOL
Allie Renison @AllieRenison 1m
Clearly no one bothered to check - Farage is *presenting UKIP's candidate* in Basingstoke http://www.ukip.org/ukip_leader_nigel_farage_keynote_speaker_at_ukip_public_meeting_in_basingstoke_tonight …0 -
@JohnRentoul: Deleted that tweet. Farage not about to declare for Basingstoke. As you were.0
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I have never understood the vitriol against politicians, but the acceptance of grotesque salaries for thugs on the football field who can't even shoot straight.TwistedFireStopper said:
Behave. 18 grand for being demoted? I know 18 grand only buys a round of drinks in PBMockney land, but that's only a few grand shy of what I take home a year. It's as if politicians want us to hate them.BobaFett said:@TSE
That's because your contract doesn't stipulate that. Presumably hers does. Let the poor woman at least take the payoff after being hounded out if her job by a mob who don't grasp the concept of "not guilty".
They're both repulsive creatures.0 -
Awwwwwwwww, that would've been SWEEEEEETScott_P said:@JohnRentoul: Deleted that tweet. Farage not about to declare for Basingstoke. As you were.
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Farage will probably go for Folkestone or Thanet.0
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Err these:RodCrosby said:
Dunno which polls you're looking at...compouter2 said:
There will be some polling repuations in the dust come the day after the EU results. They are all over the place and they cannot decide between them which party is 1st, 2nd or 3rd.anotherDave said:TNS EU Parliament poll
Con 21%, Lab 30%, LD 9%, UKIP 29%
http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news/labour-and-ukip-fighting-it-out-in-a-two-horse-race-in-the-european-electio
TNS - 3-7 Apr - Lab/Ukip/Con
Populus - 4-6 Apr - Lab/Con/Ukip
Yougov - 3-4Apr - Lab/Ukip/Con
Survation - 4 Apr - Lab/Ukip/Con
Com Res - 2-3 April = Lab Ukip tied/Con0 -
The FT isn't convinced by the IEA Brexit prize-winning paper:
http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/04/09/if-this-is-the-case-for-brexit-i-worry-for-eurosceptics/0 -
Rentoul is a complete plum. Always was, always will be.dyedwoolie said:
Awwwwwwwww, that would've been SWEEEEEETScott_P said:@JohnRentoul: Deleted that tweet. Farage not about to declare for Basingstoke. As you were.
Imagine a slightly less manic Hodges and you've pretty much got it.0 -
Almost worth renaming myself Artful Dodger and running in Basingstoke on a handkerchief stealing ticket0
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"The Constituency of resigned Cabinet Minister Maria Miller will host Nigel Farage at a public meeting this evening.dyedwoolie said:
Lol,,idiot. He'll get crucified on expenses because he'll campaign on it.Scott_P said:@JohnRentoul: Looks as if Nigel Farage may be about to declare as UKIP candidate for Basingstoke. But what if Maria Miller stands down? (Con hold.)
The message from the UKIP leader will be 'strong' and will call on the voters of Basingstoke to show their support at the ballot box.
The party will also present UKIP's Parliamentary Candidate for Basingstoke, Alan Stone at tonight's meeting starting at 8pm."
http://www.ukip.org/ukip_leader_nigel_farage_keynote_speaker_at_ukip_public_meeting_in_basingstoke_tonight0 -
DavidDavidL said:Pretty mixed figures on trade today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10754315/British-exports-at-three-and-a-half-year-low.html
Exports down to their lowest level since November 2010 but the trade deficit is falling because imports are falling even faster (import substitution?).
"In the three months to February, the trade deficit has almost halved to £4.8bn, compared with £8.7bn in the previous quarter. In that time, goods exports fell 2.5pc to £72.7bn, while imports of goods dipped 4.7pc to £99bn. "
A net improvement is good for growth but the export figures just aren't. So much to do, so little time.
A holding pattern.
Which is appropriate given that it was a fall of the imports of "erratics", or this month specifically aircraft intermediates, which was equivalent to the net improvement.
It is worth noting though that the revisions to January have been positive and substantial (£0.4 bn down for the defiicit) and both PMIs and industry surveys have recently been very upbeat on both goods and services exports.
The PMI figures are well covered on PB but here, for example, is a recent British Chambers of Commerce report:
The British Chambers of Commerce’s (BCC) quarterly economic survey showed export orders rose 3.9% and export sales increased 3.8% in the service sector.
The six key manufacturing balances also reached record levels. Domestic sales jumped 3.8%, domestic orders rose 4.2%, employment expectations were up 4.0%, investment in plant and machinery grew 3.7%, investment in training gained 3.3%, and turnover confidence advanced 6.7%.
Almost all the key balances in the services sector remain above 2007 pre-recession levels, the BCC added.
The above figures are all annual, but with accelerating growth particularly over the most recent month:
Manufacturing output for February 2014: up 1.0% on the month; up 3.8% on the year
Total industrial production: up 0.9% on the month, up 2.7% on the year
So my hunch is to watch the upcoming revisions closely. I expect we will see much stronger figures once updated.
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Disappointing. We want the full Farage frown 24/7 in Basingstoke.isam said:
"The Constituency of resigned Cabinet Minister Maria Miller will host Nigel Farage at a public meeting this evening.dyedwoolie said:
Lol,,idiot. He'll get crucified on expenses because he'll campaign on it.Scott_P said:@JohnRentoul: Looks as if Nigel Farage may be about to declare as UKIP candidate for Basingstoke. But what if Maria Miller stands down? (Con hold.)
The message from the UKIP leader will be 'strong' and will call on the voters of Basingstoke to show their support at the ballot box.
The party will also present UKIP's Parliamentary Candidate for Basingstoke, Alan Stone at tonight's meeting starting at 8pm."
http://www.ukip.org/ukip_leader_nigel_farage_keynote_speaker_at_ukip_public_meeting_in_basingstoke_tonight
Oh well, Miller will step down anyway IMO.
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The footballers provide the service the punter wants, by and large. Politicians seem to the man on the street never to do their jobs well, and only ever to screw the public.dyedwoolie said:
I have never understood the vitriol against politicians, but the acceptance of grotesque salaries for thugs on the football field who can't even shoot straight.TwistedFireStopper said:
Behave. 18 grand for being demoted? I know 18 grand only buys a round of drinks in PBMockney land, but that's only a few grand shy of what I take home a year. It's as if politicians want us to hate them.BobaFett said:@TSE
That's because your contract doesn't stipulate that. Presumably hers does. Let the poor woman at least take the payoff after being hounded out if her job by a mob who don't grasp the concept of "not guilty".
They're both repulsive creatures.0 -
Yes, football fans are far too accepting. They get what they deserve (and pay through the nose for)Quincel said:
The footballers provide the service the punter wants, by and large. Politicians seem to the man on the street never to do their jobs well, and only ever to screw the public.dyedwoolie said:
I have never understood the vitriol against politicians, but the acceptance of grotesque salaries for thugs on the football field who can't even shoot straight.TwistedFireStopper said:
Behave. 18 grand for being demoted? I know 18 grand only buys a round of drinks in PBMockney land, but that's only a few grand shy of what I take home a year. It's as if politicians want us to hate them.BobaFett said:@TSE
That's because your contract doesn't stipulate that. Presumably hers does. Let the poor woman at least take the payoff after being hounded out if her job by a mob who don't grasp the concept of "not guilty".
They're both repulsive creatures.
Politicians are just grim.
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YouGov @YouGov 58m
John Humphrys asks: What damage has been done to David Cameron after Maria Miller resigns? Have your say: http://y-g.co/Lcinz40 -
The FT author seems to misunderstand it. It is not a paper arguing for Brexit, its a paper recommending the best course of action after Brexit has been decided.antifrank said:The FT isn't convinced by the IEA Brexit prize-winning paper:
http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/04/09/if-this-is-the-case-for-brexit-i-worry-for-eurosceptics/
"A referendum has resulted in an “Out” vote and Her Majesty’s Government has triggered Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. What measures does the UK need to take in the following two years, domestically (within the UK), vis-a-vis the remaining EU and internationally, in order to promote a free and prosperous economy?"
http://www.iea.org.uk/brexit
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@JananGanesh: “@DPJHodges: Labour's response to the Maria Miller re-shuffle is embarrassing > Telegraph http://t.co/sTXxSB7ZVG” He's not wrong, is he?0
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I'm not sure that the state of UKIP in Basingstoke inspires full confidence:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10735260.Basingstoke_UKIP_councillor_Stephen_West_did_send_resignation_email/
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jo lynn @pryogi 10m
Maria Miller quits over expenses - as Tories say David Cameron should have acted sooner http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/maria-miller-quits-over-expenses--as-tories-say-david-cameron-should-have-acted-sooner-9247797.html …
dianedalziel @deedeegy 3m
David Cameron: Strip Maria Miller of her £17,000 payoff http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/david-cameron-strip-maria-miller-of-her-17-000-payoff? via @UKChange Please sign & share #ludicrous0 -
That's a very funny article.Scott_P said:@JananGanesh: “@DPJHodges: Labour's response to the Maria Miller re-shuffle is embarrassing > Telegraph http://t.co/sTXxSB7ZVG” He's not wrong, is he?
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I'd be surprised if it were actually in her contract. Such figures are, I understand, usually provided in additional paperwork e.g. rulebooks, which change from time to time. In such a case a person can resist a significant change in terms and conditions, but only in the context of their wider remuneration. Plausibly it could be different for MPs, though.BobaFett said:@TFS
So you advocate changing people's contracts retrospectively?0 -
They did pretty well in the 2013 local elections. Hopefully they'll do better this May.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm not sure that the state of UKIP in Basingstoke inspires full confidence:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10735260.Basingstoke_UKIP_councillor_Stephen_West_did_send_resignation_email/
http://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/browse/council-and-democracy/councillors-democracy-and-elections/elections/results/2013/default.htm0 -
@JananGanesh: Once you hear yourself talking in public about how many women in the cabinet are mothers, you are in some icky, icky territory.0
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Thanet South looking increasingly likely. You don't 'host' a Bloomberg journalist in the constituency unless something is afoot:AndyJS said:Farage will probably go for Folkestone or Thanet.
Farage Recruits UKIP People’s Army in Dickens County to Repel EU
See: http://bloom.bg/1earsFi0 -
The FT is the most Europhile rag in the country. It's read by the large corporations who just love Europe and its regulations which limit competition from smaller companies. And it won't want to upset its European readers.anotherDave said:
The FT author seems to misunderstand it. It is not a paper arguing for Brexit, its a paper recommending the best course of action after Brexit has been decided.antifrank said:The FT isn't convinced by the IEA Brexit prize-winning paper:
http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/04/09/if-this-is-the-case-for-brexit-i-worry-for-eurosceptics/
"A referendum has resulted in an “Out” vote and Her Majesty’s Government has triggered Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. What measures does the UK need to take in the following two years, domestically (within the UK), vis-a-vis the remaining EU and internationally, in order to promote a free and prosperous economy?"
http://www.iea.org.uk/brexit
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The FT is, and has been for decades, an ardent, full-throated supporter of European integration. It completely rejected the incredibly strong case against the Euro and was utterly, utterly wrong on the issue. They are doing exactly the same thing again.anotherDave said:
The FT author seems to misunderstand it. It is not a paper arguing for Brexit, its a paper recommending the best course of action after Brexit has been decided.antifrank said:The FT isn't convinced by the IEA Brexit prize-winning paper:
http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/04/09/if-this-is-the-case-for-brexit-i-worry-for-eurosceptics/
"A referendum has resulted in an “Out” vote and Her Majesty’s Government has triggered Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. What measures does the UK need to take in the following two years, domestically (within the UK), vis-a-vis the remaining EU and internationally, in order to promote a free and prosperous economy?"
http://www.iea.org.uk/brexit0 -
I'm glad we agree on something!Richard_Nabavi said:
That's a very funny article.Scott_P said:@JananGanesh: “@DPJHodges: Labour's response to the Maria Miller re-shuffle is embarrassing > Telegraph http://t.co/sTXxSB7ZVG” He's not wrong, is he?
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Beeb following any opportunity to undermine Conservatives. Not surprised.Mick_Pork said:YouGov @YouGov 58m
John Humphrys asks: What damage has been done to David Cameron after Maria Miller resigns? Have your say: http://y-g.co/Lcinz4
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RichardRichard_Nabavi said:
That's a very funny article.Scott_P said:@JananGanesh: “@DPJHodges: Labour's response to the Maria Miller re-shuffle is embarrassing > Telegraph http://t.co/sTXxSB7ZVG” He's not wrong, is he?
The funniest line was:
Unfortunately for Labour, Nicky Morgan is both a mother and a woman.
Is it possible to be a mother without being a woman?
Almost Porcine.
[But I agree it was one of Dan's finest.]
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ALP, it's easy to become confused when looking at the details of one particular set of figures. It's important to take a step back and look at the larger pattern once in a while.AveryLP said:A holding pattern.
...
a bunch of minutiae
...
more minutiae
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Looking at the larger pattern since 2010 and it seems pretty clear that this holding pattern has lasted about four years so far. Osborne promised better.
You could argue that this is an improvement on the trade performance under Blair and Brown, which was abysmal, but equally one could argue that we hit bottom on trade sometime around 2005 and if Osborne was going to turn things around we would have started to see some results by now.
Look what Ken Clarke achieved in four years as Chancellor. It's not enough to point at revisions and minutiae after four years. We should be asking ourselves why Osborne hasn't achieved more.0 -
It's worth considering that the guy that wrote the Brexit essay isn't even a eurosceptic:
Commenting on his win, Mr Mansfield said he had no view on the desirability of Brexit, but in the event of Britons voting to leave the EU, his paper set out a course of action that would “maximise the potential for an open, prosperous and globally engaged UK”.0 -
You mean when anyone but Miller does it?Scott_P said:@JananGanesh: Once you hear yourself talking in public about how many women in the cabinet are mothers, you are in some icky, icky territory.
This is as much to do with Miller’s handling of her affair as Cameron’s response to it. Throughout the investigation into her expenses, and even before then, she has played the working mother card. Last year, she even boasted about how she was the only mother in the Cabinet. In her lengthy and obfuscatory responses to Kathryn Hudson, the Standards Commissioner, she pointed out that she was a working mother, who had extra responsibilities beside those as an MP, and that she relied on an au pair to prepare her house for the arrival of her family at weekends. In her resignation letter, Miller reminded the Prime Minister that she was a “working mother educated at a South Wales comprehensive school”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-happened-to-camerons-pledge-to-increase-the-number-of-women-in-cabinet-replacing-maria-miller-with-sajid-javid-doesnt-exactly-help-9248668.html
Rentoul then Hodges then this. Bit of a desperate day for the scottish tory surgers.
Almost as bad as Avery's inept comedy spin for Miller.
*chortle*0 -
The next Basingstoke and Deane council by-election seems to have been caused by a Conservative councillor's resignation.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm not sure that the state of UKIP in Basingstoke inspires full confidence:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10735260.Basingstoke_UKIP_councillor_Stephen_West_did_send_resignation_email/
"Cllr Graham Round has resigned from Basingstoke & Deane BC following pressure from myself and the media to state where his main home is."
twitter.com/cllrstephenwest/status/453200284257615872
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I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.0 -
David Cameron turns Britain from the doldrums into the fastest growing g-7 nation in the teeth of a thousand doom mongers and yet suddenly his judgement is fatally flawed over a no-mark minister exonerated by her peers who resigns anyway.
I mean FFS. its the lobby that's in danger of being out of touch here, and the government should say so.
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Yes, but at least they know that he has resigned.anotherDave said:The next Basingstoke and Deane council by-election seems to have been caused by a Conservative councillor's resignation.
"Cllr Graham Round has resigned from Basingstoke & Deane BC following pressure from myself and the media to state where his main home is."0 -
TwistedFireStopper said:
I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
And that's a keeper.Richard_Nabavi said:I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.
Those who laugh at CCHQ's risible attempts at spinning should always remember that PB hosts obliviously out of touch comedy of an even higher calibre from it's most 'illustrious' Cameroons.
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The £280,000 paid to a BBC executive who resigned having failed to become DG certainly bothered me, the 18K ,not so much. - In principle I'm against all tax payer funded golden hellos/goodbyes.TwistedFireStopper said:0 -
Are we talking about Maria Miller as Culture Sec, or John Terry as England captain?.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.0 -
anotherDave said:
Surely all of UKIP's support, above their 2010 3%, is soft?isam said:Where has the UKIP support come from?
http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/news/where-has-the-ukip-support-come-from-and-will-it-disappear-just-as-quickly
iSam, this is an issue Eurosceptics can't win on. Even people that go on holiday just once or twice a year, as Nuttall suggests, are going to support this move. People often get hit with £100 chargers unexpectedly from this stuff, and it's hard to believe that annual phone bills will go up by that much, if they go up at all. Even if they did, it's preferable for people to be able to plan what they're doing, rather than get unexpected costs, plus the nuisance of not being able to use their phone on holiday.isam said:Paul Nuttalls take on EU's Clever Move on Roaming charges
twitter.com/paulnuttallukip/status/453897993549135873/photo/1
The only sensible strategy here for UKIP is to move on and focus on the bigger issues on the EU.0 -
OblitusOblitusSumMe said:
ALP, it's easy to become confused when looking at the details of one particular set of figures. It's important to take a step back and look at the larger pattern once in a while.AveryLP said:A holding pattern.
...
a bunch of minutiae
...
more minutiae
...
Looking at the larger pattern since 2010 and it seems pretty clear that this holding pattern has lasted about four years so far. Osborne promised better.
You could argue that this is an improvement on the trade performance under Blair and Brown, which was abysmal, but equally one could argue that we hit bottom on trade sometime around 2005 and if Osborne was going to turn things around we would have started to see some results by now.
Look what Ken Clarke achieved in four years as Chancellor. It's not enough to point at revisions and minutiae after four years. We should be asking ourselves why Osborne hasn't achieved more.
Even Pork blindfolded could have achieved a trade turnaround in the mid 1990s. Oil and Gas output was reaching its peak and global prices were at their relative highest. We were substantial net energy exporters and rolling in incoming cash.
You can't rebalance trade when Oil and Gas production is falling from a third of the 1990s output at a rate of up to 15% per annum, however strong your manufacturing industry.
If you look at our core export manufacturing sectors then there has been a substantial turnaround under Osborne and Cable (motor vehicles, pharmaceuticals, aeronautics etc.). And this at a time when our major export market, the EU, has been in recession.
What is needed is a stabilisation of North Sea output, continued energy consumption productivity, energy import substitution through gas fracking, and, the continued development of those industries where the UK has a reasonable chance of maintaining competitive advantage in the global economy. We also need to continue to expand our markets beyond just the EU and US. And, if Mr. Brooke is not celebrating on the golf course, some planned import substitution where there is clear cost benefit.
This is not a single term effort. There is no magic wand Osborne and Cable can wave. Just hard long term strategic development. The foundations are being laid.
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If she's been treated unlawfully, then she should persue it. That 18 grand can kick start her legal fund.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.
You rich Tories don't understand, do you? But then again, neither do the rich Labourites.
18 grand. That's a lot of money to me, and most people in this country. 18 grand just because you get demoted from cabinet. Money goes to money, I guess.
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Do you think Maria might turn up to the next DCMS questions and hang around the despatch box as if she might be needed to answer a question at any moment?isam said:
Are we talking about Maria Miller as Culture Sec, or John Terry as England captain?.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.0 -
Nah. Football is just the same as politics. Everyone knows that. Hence the clear cut lines for resignations and MPs/ministerial behaviour that have always existed. Oh that's right, they don't. Miller just proved they don't.isam said:
Are we talking about Maria Miller as Culture Sec, or John Terry as England captain?.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.
It simply depends on the circumstances because there is no magical arbiter apart from the judgement of those at the centre of the scandal and the judgement of those who can fire them or put pressure on them.0 -
I seem to recall (though I have neither the time nor inclination to research it right now) that Secretaries of State are not employees and have none of the conventional rights of employees. So no right to claim unfair dismissal, redundancy, wrongful dismissal or whatever. These payments are, I seem to recall, in lieu of those rights.0
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Probably not, I'd agree with you on that. I'm not particularly singling out Miller for the 18 grand sweetener, hell, didn't Chris Huhne claim 17 when he resigned to fight to clear his name? I'm just amazed that it doesn't bother you, that a Cabinet minister gets 18 for stepping down. On top of everything else.BobaFett said:@TFS
You seem to have no grasp of employment law.
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I think what Richard was saying was than in any other profession it would be wrongful, as so in politics it was the payoff for it not being so. However, I don't agree; I think there's something contradictory about "having failed my constituents" and claiming a payoff.TwistedFireStopper said:
If she's been treated unlawfully, then she should persue it. That 18 grand can kick start her legal fund.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.
You rich Tories don't understand, do you? But then again, neither do the rich Labourites.
18 grand. That's a lot of money to me, and most people in this country. 18 grand just because you get demoted from cabinet. Money goes to money, I guess.
In general, yes, politicians are underpaid compared to many comparable jobs, but, fundamentally, that is the wrong comparison. Politicians are paid in their place in history and their ability to change things, as well as serve the public.0 -
I know what Richard is saying, and it's fair, when put like that, but, who hounded her out? Cameron? The press? John Mann? Who would she claim against? Would she have a bullying case against her fellow Tory MPs who thought she should go? So I don't think you can put it in the same context as employee law.Grandiose said:
I think what Richard was saying was than in any other profession it would be wrongful, as so in politics it was the payoff for it not being so. However, I don't agree; I think there's something contradictory about "having failed my constituents" and claiming a payoff.TwistedFireStopper said:
If she's been treated unlawfully, then she should persue it. That 18 grand can kick start her legal fund.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.
You rich Tories don't understand, do you? But then again, neither do the rich Labourites.
18 grand. That's a lot of money to me, and most people in this country. 18 grand just because you get demoted from cabinet. Money goes to money, I guess.
In general, yes, politicians are underpaid compared to many comparable jobs, but, fundamentally, that is the wrong comparison. Politicians are paid in their place in history and their ability to change things, as well as serve the public.
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"To help Dave with that reading list the IEA have sent him a copy of both Mansfield’s pamphlet and Nads’ book:"isam said:
He said he plans to read it?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ah, the old 'I'm only fiddling my employer because he's a capitalist swine' argument.isam said:They're fiddling from a state they openly hate to fund it's dismantling, rather than from taxpayers to pay for luxuries.
It's still taxpayers' money.
As I posted at the end of the last thread, I think it's a really excellent document, well worth a read. I'm glad Cameron plans to read it.isam said:
What did you make of Cameron's response to being asked to read the Brexit winners plans?
Still, UKIP's po-faced response to his quite amusing answer was reminiscent of the humourlessness of the Guardian.
"12:33 - "Leaving the European Union should become part of our long-term economic plan," suggests David Nuttall. Cameron responds by saying he may bother to read the paper on leaving the EU - but that it might get beaten in his holiday reading list by the novel from Nadine Dorries, of all people. And with that, the session ends."
http://politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/04/09/pmqs-as-it-happens-after-the-resignation-the-mauling
http://order-order.com/2014/04/09/winner-from-manila/0 -
The FT's Matthew Engel re the Miller affair."One gets an increasing sense,that as a Prime Minister,he's rather feeble-minded".
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/45bea414-bff3-11e3-b6e8-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/world_uk_politics/feed//product&siteedition=uk#axzz2yP9mQ3Jv0 -
The final para of the Hodges artickè;
So this is where we’ve got to. According to Labour it is a disgrace an Asian man now has responsibility for equalities issues. And it is a disgrace the Conservative minister for women now answers to a man, even though she always has, and even though Labour’s women’s minister answers to a man, and always has. It’s a disgrace there aren’t any mothers in the cabinet. And it’s also a disgrace that a mother has been promoted to attend the cabinet as women’s minister, because she didn’t vote for gay marriage. And the person who’s been sent out to say all this is Labour’s shadow women’s minister, who also isn’t a mother, and has said categorically she doesn’t want to be a mother.
And Labour has the front to say David Cameron has made a mess of the Maria Miller affair.0 -
Of course I would, I'd be straight on to Thompsons!BobaFett said:@TFS - so if you lost your job through constructive dismissal you would neither get nor expect any compensation?
That ain't the argument, though. It's the 18 grand for having to leave cabinet that I don't like. Huhne was eligible for it. Was Laws able to claim it?
As I said down thread, say she was going to fight it, who is she claiming against?
At the least, you could say she's bought the government into disrepute, that's a sticky wicket, a bit of a catch all charge, but feasible.
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Surely that is exactly the point - it's not a normal employment, and so there are none of the normal rights. If you get fired because the PM decides he needs a woman to balance up the cabinet, or because you've had to take the rap for something completely outside your control, you can't sue for sex discrimination or unfair dismissal. So, in lieu of such rights (which in most cases in normal employment law would lead to much bigger payments), there's a fixed payment. And whilst of course I 'get it' in the sense that I'm very well aware that £18K is a lot of money for most ordinary people, it's actually less than two months' salary for a Cabinet minister (salary £134K).TwistedFireStopper said:I know what Richard is saying, and it's fair, when put like that, but, who hounded her out? Cameron? The press? John Mann? Who would she claim against? Would she have a bullying case against her fellow Tory MPs who thought she should go? So I don't think you can put it in the same context as employee law.
Now, maybe cabinet ministers don't need to be paid that much, but that's a different question. It's certainly not a lot compared with what most countries pay their most senior government ministers.0 -
O/T:
After 10 years, Fifteen To One has returned on Channel 4. Sandi Toksvik is presenting in place of William G Stewart. The pace is rather lethargic compared to the original incarnation.0 -
Failure to compensate for loss of office makes it more rather than less difficult to remove a cabinet minister (and any other paid official).Grandiose said:
I think what Richard was saying was than in any other profession it would be wrongful, as so in politics it was the payoff for it not being so. However, I don't agree; I think there's something contradictory about "having failed my constituents" and claiming a payoff.TwistedFireStopper said:
If she's been treated unlawfully, then she should persue it. That 18 grand can kick start her legal fund.Richard_Nabavi said:
I'd have thought that the events of the past few days show exactly why they do.TwistedFireStopper said:I'm just amazed that any cabinet minister gets 18 grand for losing a promotion. Doesn't that bother you?
If you were hounded out of your job when your employer, following its own procedures, had found that the allegations against you were unfounded, you'd have a cast-iron case for unfair dismissal and breach of contract.
You rich Tories don't understand, do you? But then again, neither do the rich Labourites.
18 grand. That's a lot of money to me, and most people in this country. 18 grand just because you get demoted from cabinet. Money goes to money, I guess.
In general, yes, politicians are underpaid compared to many comparable jobs, but, fundamentally, that is the wrong comparison. Politicians are paid in their place in history and their ability to change things, as well as serve the public.
In cases such as Maria Miller's where the formal disciplinary process has not recommended dismissal from office or even major penalty, then the PM is relying on the cabinet minister to resign 'voluntarily' on the basis of a political judgement. Six month's pay in lieu of notice would be standard in the private sector for a salaried employee being asked to leave for any reason beyond gross missconduct and much more if there was a service contract. So Miller's £18,000 is meagre in comparison.
Angry bloodlust is no substitute for reasoned justice, even in politics.
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This discussion has been closed.