politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A key GE19 battleground: The GE2017 Tories who voted Remain
Comments
-
The shade of amaranth she brings to the flabby jowls of the pb.com tories indicates she's on to something. See also Greta T.GIN1138 said:
Is there any polling evidence to justify rebranding the Lib-Dems "Jo Swinson's Liberal Demorcrats" ?CarlottaVance said:"Jo Swinson's" Liberal Democrats
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1192019280684109825?s=20
Last time I saw a poll with personal ratings (MORI?) Swinson wasn't exactly miss popular with the electorate?0 -
Ishmael_Z said: "Borrowing money and using it to improve outcomes is called capitalism."
Not when it is borrowing by the state.0 -
Then the SNP will be sufficient.Time_to_Leave said:
Really? Isn’t this a scenario in which Labour keeps what it has and snatches a few more urban Tory seats (e.g. Telford to be topical), while the LibDems hollow out the Tories where they can’t reach?AlastairMeeks said:
Actually no. If the Lib Dems are crucial to Labour forming a government, Labour will have gone backwards in the seat count.Time_to_Leave said:
In this scenario wouldn’t Corbyn have had to overturn a massive Tory poll lead and make significant gains in seats though? At that point he’d presumably have a larger (and more loyal - also due to moderates standing down) PLP.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour was willing in 2010 to ditch Gordon Brown to get Lib Dem support. Why not do the same in 2019?NickPalmer said:
The process AFAIK is this:
1. If someone has an overall majority the Queen says congrats, you're the government.
2. If nobody does, Johnson is entitled to try to struggle on until he runs into a VONC.
3. If he quits or a VONC is passed, the Queen rakes soundings on whether someone else might be able to govern without a VONC (I believe they would need a vote of confidence, but not necessarily with an overall majority voting for it). That includes a minority government surviving through the lack of a VONC - as we've had in the recent weeks.
4. If so, they get invited to have a try. They too can be brought down by a VONC.
5. If not, we get a new election. What joy.
In this situation, the LibDems would have clear choices in the event that they had enough seats to enable either Tory or Labour+SNP+Plaid to outvote the other:
1. Refuse to support a VONC in Johnson and enable him to continue in office.
2. Vote to remove Johnson, but don't support a VONC in Corbyn, enabling him to be PM.
3. Vote against both and force another election.
There is no realistic fourth option - demanding that other parties change their leaders to someone Swinson likes is not serious.. Swinson is avoiding having to choose by saying she wouldn't vote FOR Corbyn (abstention is not discussed), though she seems more reticent about Johnson. That is not a complete answer.
It’s never easy to put yourself in the shoes of someone else but in those circumstances, if I was one of them, I think I’d play hardball. Worst case I’d be thinking “one more heave”.0 -
Why should he stop saying it's ludicrous if it is?kinabalu said:
I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous.TOPPING said:This is the point @AlastairMeeks was making to me. Let's look at 1) domestic policies; and 2) Brexit.
On 1) I much prefer the Tories' policies, compared with those of Labour. On 2) well what exactly do Labour want? I'm not sure. We know Jezza is an unreconstructed Leaver, but we also know that the Lab Brexit plan is ludicrous, while on the Cons side we have a deal and a basis to move forward. That is fine for me.
I have a clip of Jeremy explaining it which I will share shortly.
We are all entitled to our opinions.0 -
Is it like a three year-old child explaining quantum physics?kinabalu said:
I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous.TOPPING said:This is the point @AlastairMeeks was making to me. Let's look at 1) domestic policies; and 2) Brexit.
On 1) I much prefer the Tories' policies, compared with those of Labour. On 2) well what exactly do Labour want? I'm not sure. We know Jezza is an unreconstructed Leaver, but we also know that the Lab Brexit plan is ludicrous, while on the Cons side we have a deal and a basis to move forward. That is fine for me.
I have a clip of Jeremy explaining it which I will share shortly.0 -
0
-
Terrible! That would take borrowing back to levels not seen since... [checks notes] three years into Cameron's government.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️0 -
The LDs might quite fancy yet another GE, having secured a lot of second places in Dec 2019 from which they would be better placed to challenge to win seats in Remain voting areas.NickPalmer said:
The process AFAIK is this:Stocky said:Foxy said "In such a parliament, Lab could form a minority government and get support for individual Bill's, but without a formal arrangement. That is as far as it would go."
In the scenario that the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise?
I think that it is possible, in this scenario, for the Tories (as incumbents) to limp on as a minority government but I`m noit sure that Labour to claim to the Queen that they can do this without a coalition or C&S from other parties to command a majority.
Maybe I`m wrong - can someone clarify this? Specifically, if the Tories win most seats can Labour take charge as a minority government with fewer MPs than theTories and with no agreements with other parties.
1. If someone has an overall majority the Queen says congrats, you're the government.
2. If nobody does, Johnson is entitled to try to struggle on until he runs into a VONC.
3. If he quits or a VONC is passed, the Queen rakes soundings on whether someone else might be able to govern without a VONC (I believe they would need a vote of confidence, but not necessarily with an overall majority voting for it). That includes a minority government surviving through the lack of a VONC - as we've had in the recent weeks.
4. If so, they get invited to have a try. They too can be brought down by a VONC.
5. If not, we get a new election. What joy.
In this situation, the LibDems would have clear choices in the event that they had enough seats to enable either Tory or Labour+SNP+Plaid to outvote the other:
1. Refuse to support a VONC in Johnson and enable him to continue in office.
2. Vote to remove Johnson, but don't support a VONC in Corbyn, enabling him to be PM.
3. Vote against both and force another election.
There is no realistic fourth option - demanding that other parties change their leaders to someone Swinson likes is not serious.. Swinson is avoiding having to choose by saying she wouldn't vote FOR Corbyn (abstention is not discussed), though she seems more reticent about Johnson. That is not a complete answer.
Johnson might also fancy yet another GE in circumstances where Farage was a busted flush and the Brexit Party had demonstrated conclusively that it was capable only of denying the Conservative Party the opportunity to win seats in Leave voting areas while being incapable of winning seats in its own right.
If Corbyn (or his cultist heir apparent) were Labour leader, then Labour would be the party likely to lose out.0 -
Given the right wing media have named the alleged whistleblower on air, i am surprised trump hasnt had a 5am twitter outburst linking to the various tweets / articles.0
-
Last weeks Mori poll has the following personal ratingsdyedwoolie said:
Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?GIN1138 said:
Is there any polling evidence to justify rebranding the Lib-Dems "Jo Swinson's Liberal Demorcrats" ?CarlottaVance said:"Jo Swinson's" Liberal Democrats
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1192019280684109825?s=20
Last time I saw a poll with personal ratings (MORI?) Swinson wasn't exactly miss popular with the electorate?
Satisfied/dissatisfied
Boris Johnson: 46/44 (+2)
Jeremy Corbyn: 15/75 (-60)
Jo Swinson: 29/41 (-12)
You wouldn't say Swinson is exactly setting the world alight in the popularity stakes would you?
Maybe Lib-Dems think the problem is that most people have never heard of her?
0 -
Just the far left ones that are anti-israel / pro hamas...dyedwoolie said:https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1191983726500229120?s=19
Some jews are alright0 -
The Ruth Davidson Gambit? Seems a bit optimistic by the Lib Dems.GIN1138 said:
Is there any polling evidence to justify rebranding the Lib-Dems "Jo Swinson's Liberal Demorcrats" ?CarlottaVance said:"Jo Swinson's" Liberal Democrats
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1192019280684109825?s=20
Last time I saw a poll with personal ratings (MORI?) Swinson wasn't exactly miss popular with the electorate?0 -
I was very suspicious of the ERG's support for Bozo's deal and the only rational explanation to me is that they intend to No Deal in Dec 2020 and could well have the votes to do it given the exodus of moderates from the party, most of whom I assume will be replaced by Brexit hardliners.Cyclefree said:
And not just the farmers.Foxy said:
It is BoZo's Brexit that will destroy the British Kulak farmers, not Jezza.OnlyLivingBoy said:I was worried about what Labour's plans might mean for me and my family, but since I am not an early twentieth century Russian peasant I think I will be ok.
While I admire your optimism I think, sadly, you are being naive. The party is now in the hands of those who believe in No Deal and they have the better long-term strategy.TOPPING said:
Absolutely ridiculous, the 2020 cliff edge, I agree. Plus with a lot of sensible Cons leaving there is not safety net against no deal. That is a real risk. But I continue to believe that no British Prime Minister could leave without a deal and hence I see a fudge ahead if it comes to it, although I also think that there will be significant risks.Cyclefree said:His policy is a No Deal exit at the end of the transition period in December 2020, unless you believe that he can get an FTA agreed with the EU and implemented before then.
That is what the likes of @DavidL and other Tories voting for Johnson are voting for. It is the same policy as that of the ERG and all the others who wanted a departure on 31/10, deal or no deal, just with the date changed.
Quite why falling off a cliff into third country status is in the best interests of those people who fear chaos with Corbyn is unclear to me. It’s another form of chaos, though it has this to be said for it: all those companies and individuals who don’t what this hassle have a year to make plans to avoid it.
Enough for me to cheer on a Labour government? Nope.
An FTA in the time available will be practically impossible and an extension is already being ruled out so it is going to be comparatively simple to get No Deal by default and I believe that is the strategy, The hardliners will just oppose any deal and block an extension and if Bozo gets a decent majority there will no longer be enough rebels to stop them.
This election isn't resolving Brexit at all, it's pushing the can down the road another year and this time next year we will be on the brink of a No Deal Brexit again0 -
Good old Abbott digging a hole for Labour to help pull Mogg and Bridgen out of theirs.0
-
She would totally bawl you out for not volunteering to chaperone the school promGIN1138 said:
Last weeks Mori poll has the following personal ratingsdyedwoolie said:
Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?GIN1138 said:
Is there any polling evidence to justify rebranding the Lib-Dems "Jo Swinson's Liberal Demorcrats" ?CarlottaVance said:"Jo Swinson's" Liberal Democrats
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1192019280684109825?s=20
Last time I saw a poll with personal ratings (MORI?) Swinson wasn't exactly miss popular with the electorate?
Satisfied/dissatisfied
Boris Johnson: 46/44 = +2
Jeremy Corbyn: 15/75 = -60
Jo Swinson: 29/41 = -12
You wouldn't say Swinson is exactly setting the world alight in the popularity stakes would you?
Maybe Lib-Dems think the problem is that most people have never heard of her?0 -
The policy is nonsense in so much as the time line is impossiblekinabalu said:
I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous.TOPPING said:This is the point @AlastairMeeks was making to me. Let's look at 1) domestic policies; and 2) Brexit.
On 1) I much prefer the Tories' policies, compared with those of Labour. On 2) well what exactly do Labour want? I'm not sure. We know Jezza is an unreconstructed Leaver, but we also know that the Lab Brexit plan is ludicrous, while on the Cons side we have a deal and a basis to move forward. That is fine for me.
I have a clip of Jeremy explaining it which I will share shortly.
Junckers affirmed so yesterday but even if the EU decided to re open the WDA, renegotiating the elements into a new treaty and passing that by 27 leaders, and then putting a referendum legislation through the HOC plus 22 weeks campaigning would take most of 2020
But the larger problem is the EU will not even open talks if they think the labour party will then campaign against their new deal
0 -
How is she doing with Remain voters? The LibDems are not targeting a majority.GIN1138 said:
Last weeks Mori poll has the following personal ratingsdyedwoolie said:
Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?GIN1138 said:
Is there any polling evidence to justify rebranding the Lib-Dems "Jo Swinson's Liberal Demorcrats" ?CarlottaVance said:"Jo Swinson's" Liberal Democrats
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1192019280684109825?s=20
Last time I saw a poll with personal ratings (MORI?) Swinson wasn't exactly miss popular with the electorate?
Satisfied/dissatisfied
Boris Johnson: 46/44 (+2)
Jeremy Corbyn: 15/75 (-60)
Jo Swinson: 29/41 (-12)
You wouldn't say Swinson is exactly setting the world alight in the popularity stakes would you?
Maybe Lib-Dems think the problem is that most people have never heard of her?0 -
Can someone give me an answer to the following question:
If the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise - i.e. could Labour take charge as a minority government despite having fewer MPs than the Tories and with no agreements with other parties?0 -
Its like the BNP wheeling out a black guy supporting them in 2010 as proof of their non racist credentialsFrancisUrquhart said:
Just the far left ones that are anti-israel / pro hamas...dyedwoolie said:https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1191983726500229120?s=19
Some jews are alright0 -
Fair point. In Labour Gvt scenarios my brain tends to ignore the SNP because I mentally flash back to pre-2010 but forget how many Scottish seats Labour had.AlastairMeeks said:
Then the SNP will be sufficient.Time_to_Leave said:
Really? Isn’t this a scenario in which Labour keeps what it has and snatches a few more urban Tory seats (e.g. Telford to be topical), while the LibDems hollow out the Tories where they can’t reach?AlastairMeeks said:
Actually no. If the Lib Dems are crucial to Labour forming a government, Labour will have gone backwards in the seat count.Time_to_Leave said:
In this scenario wouldn’t Corbyn have had to overturn a massive Tory poll lead and make significant gains in seats though? At that point he’d presumably have a larger (and more loyal - also due to moderates standing down) PLP.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour was willing in 2010 to ditch Gordon Brown to get Lib Dem support. Why not do the same in 2019?NickPalmer said:
The process AFAIK is this:
1. If someone has an overall majority the Queen says congrats, you're the government.
2. If nobody does, Johnson is entitled to try to struggle on until he runs into a VONC.
3. If he quits or a VONC is passed, the Queen rakes soundings on whether someone else might be able to govern without a VONC (I believe they would need a vote of confidence, but not necessarily with an overall majority voting for it). That includes a minority government surviving through the lack of a VONC - as we've had in the recent weeks.
4. If so, they get invited to have a try. They too can be brought down by a VONC.
5. If not, we get a new election. What joy.
In this situation, the LibDems would have clear choices in the event that they had enough seats to enable either Tory or Labour+SNP+Plaid to outvote the other:
1. Refuse to support a VONC in Johnson and enable him to continue in office.
2. Vote to remove Johnson, but don't support a VONC in Corbyn, enabling him to be PM.
3. Vote against both and force another election.
There is no realistic fourth option - demanding that other parties change their leaders to someone Swinson likes is not serious.. Swinson is avoiding having to choose by saying she wouldn't vote FOR Corbyn (abstention is not discussed), though she seems more reticent about Johnson. That is not a complete answer.
It’s never easy to put yourself in the shoes of someone else but in those circumstances, if I was one of them, I think I’d play hardball. Worst case I’d be thinking “one more heave”.0 -
I don't like her either but I sense a touch of misogyny in some of the negative comments. Course, she didn't help herself in this regard with spurious claims that "sexism" was to blame for her debate exclusion, but still she seems to attract some OTT abuse. I do think that a greater than average level of personal vitriol is directed against female politicians.dyedwoolie said:Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?
0 -
Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous.kinabalu said:
I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous.TOPPING said:This is the point @AlastairMeeks was making to me. Let's look at 1) domestic policies; and 2) Brexit.
On 1) I much prefer the Tories' policies, compared with those of Labour. On 2) well what exactly do Labour want? I'm not sure. We know Jezza is an unreconstructed Leaver, but we also know that the Lab Brexit plan is ludicrous, while on the Cons side we have a deal and a basis to move forward. That is fine for me.
I have a clip of Jeremy explaining it which I will share shortly.
When you're explaining, you're losing.0 -
Yes, imo its the most likely outcome assuming the tories are more than a handful of seats short of a majority. Other parties just decide what to do on a vote by vote basis but wont bring the Labour minority down unless its a major issue (or until it suits them!).Stocky said:Can someone give me an answer to the following question:
If the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise - i.e. could Labour take charge as a minority government despite having fewer MPs than the Tories and with no agreements with other parties?0 -
Or those Tories who pretend to be against bigotry but only ever call out antisemitism because they think it helps their side, ignoring the islamophobia that infests their own party.dyedwoolie said:
Its like the BNP wheeling out a black guy supporting them in 2010 as proof of their non racist credentialsFrancisUrquhart said:
Just the far left ones that are anti-israel / pro hamas...dyedwoolie said:https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1191983726500229120?s=19
Some jews are alright0 -
Not with Corbyn.Stocky said:Can someone give me an answer to the following question:
If the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise - i.e. could Labour take charge as a minority government despite having fewer MPs than the Tories and with no agreements with other parties?0 -
Yes, if the other parties wanted rid of Johnson and wouldn’t no confidence Corbyn. Presumably he’d have to make promises on Brexit but I can see that.Stocky said:Can someone give me an answer to the following question:
If the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise - i.e. could Labour take charge as a minority government despite having fewer MPs than the Tories and with no agreements with other parties?
Can’t see such a Gvt lasting long though.0 -
kinabalu said:
"I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous."
At one level, Labour`s policy is not ludicrous.
However, where it is ludicrous is the belief that the EU would be motivated in any way to give the UK a good deal when the EU knows that the referendum will be the deal struck v remain. EU may as well give us bad deal, so that the referendum is bad deal v remain.
It is the failure to understand this which shows Labour, yet again, to be such an incredibly naive bunch.0 -
Yes, it's possible. It would face challenges getting queens speech and a budget through, though. It really depends on the numbers. If Labour + SNP is enough to get a finance bill through, it could survive. No formal agreement needed, just an understanding.Stocky said:Can someone give me an answer to the following question:
If the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise - i.e. could Labour take charge as a minority government despite having fewer MPs than the Tories and with no agreements with other parties?0 -
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1191448953847517185Theuniondivvie said:More compelling evidence that anyone associated with Trump is contractually obliged to look like a weird fcuker.
https://twitter.com/FuzzyWuzzyTO/status/1191830659968491520?s=200 -
Bit of a worry for our democratic process if true. Which, sadly, I fear it is.MarqueeMark said:When you're explaining, you're losing.
0 -
To be fair to Labour, I see no reason why the EU wouldn’t talk to them about EEA membership plus a Customs Union. Absent the silly customs union, that’s what most of us used to assume Brexit meant.Stocky said:kinabalu said:
"I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous."
At one level, Labour`s policy is not ludicrous.
However, where it is ludicrous is the belief that the EU would be motivated in any way to give the UK a good deal when the EU knows that the referendum will be the deal struck v remain. EU may as well give us bad deal, so that the referendum is bad deal v remain.
It is the failure to understand this which shows Labour, yet again, to be such an incredibly naive bunch.
Edit - managing the transition into that over a one year transition period is also just about doable.0 -
Dominic Grieve hasn't got a chance in hell of retaining Beaconsfield.
He's standing for the pay off.
Oh and a few more weeks in the spotlight.0 -
Society is both a touch misogynist and misandrist. Different rules appear to apply to each of the two traditional genderskinabalu said:
I don't like her either but I sense a touch of misogyny in some of the negative comments. Course, she didn't help herself in this regard with spurious claims that "sexism" was to blame for her debate exclusion, but still she seems to attract some OTT abuse. I do think that a greater than average level of personal vitriol is directed against female politicians.dyedwoolie said:Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?
0 -
Corbyn not doing a bad job at all with his talk this morning.0
-
A referendum before Brexit will just be on the WA and political declaration, not the hard detail of the future relationship, so this objection doesn't apply. We already know exactly what the options are for withdrawal.Stocky said:kinabalu said:
"I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous."
At one level, Labour`s policy is not ludicrous.
However, where it is ludicrous is the belief that the EU would be motivated in any way to give the UK a good deal when the EU knows that the referendum will be the deal struck v remain. EU may as well give us bad deal, so that the referendum is bad deal v remain.
It is the failure to understand this which shows Labour, yet again, to be such an incredibly naive bunch.0 -
They will not open talks if labour are going to campaign against their dealTime_to_Leave said:
To be fair to Labour, I see no reason why the EU wouldn’t talk to them about EEA membership plus a Customs Union. Absent the silly customs union, that’s what most of us used to assume Brexit meant.Stocky said:kinabalu said:
"I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous."
At one level, Labour`s policy is not ludicrous.
However, where it is ludicrous is the belief that the EU would be motivated in any way to give the UK a good deal when the EU knows that the referendum will be the deal struck v remain. EU may as well give us bad deal, so that the referendum is bad deal v remain.
It is the failure to understand this which shows Labour, yet again, to be such an incredibly naive bunch.
Edit - managing the transition into that over a one year transition period is also just about doable.
They want this over and not played for fools0 -
Mr. Cadboll, I fear you're confusing me for someone else.
On the book front:
https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/11865599136921600030 -
noneoftheabove said: "Yes, imo its the most likely outcome assuming the tories are more than a handful of seats short of a majority. Other parties just decide what to do on a vote by vote basis but wont bring the Labour minority down unless its a major issue (or until it suits them!)."
So what you are saying is that in the event of:
1) Tories failing to get a majority
2) no coalitions (or C&Ss) being found (either with the Tories or Labour) making any majority impossible
3) Tories get first dibs to run with a minority - but decline
4) Labour, who in my scenario have fewer seats than Tories remember, are allowed under the rules to take the reins on a minority basis.
Are you sure?
0 -
Can we lay the ghost of the "misogyny" trope please? Swinson is being judged as a politician. As any politician. People pick up on stuff about anyone in the public domain. Was the stuff about Cameron's shiny face misandry? No.kinabalu said:
I don't like her either but I sense a touch of misogyny in some of the negative comments. Course, she didn't help herself in this regard with spurious claims that "sexism" was to blame for her debate exclusion, but still she seems to attract some OTT abuse. I do think that a greater than average level of personal vitriol is directed against female politicians.dyedwoolie said:Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?
I get it that we need more women in public life. I get it that our public discourse needs to be less aggressive. But there is way less misogyny around now than when Thatcher had to trail-blaze.1 -
Listening to Corbyn he seems to be much less of a firebrand
Indeed he looks tired and unconvincing0 -
Don't be daft, that's an absolutely ludicrous statement which serves merely to make you look stupidly prejudiced. Why on earth would Dominic Grieve, QC, whose wealth is estimated to be in the millions, and who can easily earn hundreds of grand a year, care a toss about a few grand payoff?Xtrain said:Dominic Grieve hasn't got a chance in hell of retaining Beaconsfield.
He's standing for the pay off.0 -
Yeah but that doesn’t take much in the way of talks. You reheat the May deal and spend a day on the PD. The EU wouldn’t have an issue with this sort of proposal being worked up for the purposes of a referendum.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not open talks if labour are going to campaign against their dealTime_to_Leave said:
To be fair to Labour, I see no reason why the EU wouldn’t talk to them about EEA membership plus a Customs Union. Absent the silly customs union, that’s what most of us used to assume Brexit meant.Stocky said:kinabalu said:
"I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous."
At one level, Labour`s policy is not ludicrous.
However, where it is ludicrous is the belief that the EU would be motivated in any way to give the UK a good deal when the EU knows that the referendum will be the deal struck v remain. EU may as well give us bad deal, so that the referendum is bad deal v remain.
It is the failure to understand this which shows Labour, yet again, to be such an incredibly naive bunch.
Edit - managing the transition into that over a one year transition period is also just about doable.
They want this over and not played for fools
Edit - Actually, ironically, in that scenario the EU wouldn’t want to reheat the May deal as it would allow us to bargain hard on EEA membership fees. It would have to be retaining the Boris deal. Even easier.0 -
Opening talks with the possibility of campaigning against any deal was the Conservative position too.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not open talks if labour are going to campaign against their dealTime_to_Leave said:
To be fair to Labour, I see no reason why the EU wouldn’t talk to them about EEA membership plus a Customs Union. Absent the silly customs union, that’s what most of us used to assume Brexit meant.Stocky said:kinabalu said:
"I want you to stop saying this. That Labour's Brexit plan is ludicrous."
At one level, Labour`s policy is not ludicrous.
However, where it is ludicrous is the belief that the EU would be motivated in any way to give the UK a good deal when the EU knows that the referendum will be the deal struck v remain. EU may as well give us bad deal, so that the referendum is bad deal v remain.
It is the failure to understand this which shows Labour, yet again, to be such an incredibly naive bunch.
Edit - managing the transition into that over a one year transition period is also just about doable.
They want this over and not played for fools0 -
Yesterdays man.Big_G_NorthWales said:Listening to Corbyn he seems to be much less of a firebrand
Indeed he looks tired and unconvincing0 -
That's true, but that level of stimulus from infrastructure investment will cause problems, quite apart from the debt issue. Better to raise a carbon tax to pay for it (which is also temporary by design because once the job is done there will be no carbon emitted to be taxed).Ishmael_Z said:
Borrowing money and using it to improve outcomes is called capitalism. If you go back over your notes you will probably find you are meant to be in favour of it. You may or may not agree with the Green theisis about climate change but that is an entirely separate point.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️0 -
Without looking it up, I'm sure the elsewhere should be higher, because Switzerland has such a strong pharmaceutical industry.Benpointer said:
Surpised you're surprised Big_G.Big_G_NorthWales said:Expert on NHS medication purchases from the US says only accounts for 9% of the whole UK supply
I did not realise that 91% of our drugs source outside the US
I'd assume something like 40% from UK, 40% from other EU countries, 10% from US, 10% from elsewhere. No idea if that's correct though.0 -
Difficult questions for Corbyn from the pressozymandias said:
Yesterdays man.Big_G_NorthWales said:Listening to Corbyn he seems to be much less of a firebrand
Indeed he looks tired and unconvincing0 -
There is something not right that somebody can stand as an independent and, by virtue of getting not even one vote, can trouser tens of thousands of pounds. Perhaps it should be linked to at least saving their deposit. Give it an element of jeapordy...Xtrain said:Dominic Grieve hasn't got a chance in hell of retaining Beaconsfield.
He's standing for the pay off.
Oh and a few more weeks in the spotlight.1 -
A Lib Dem propped up Labour minority Gov't likely involves a change of leader in the Labour party, a renegotiation with the EU, another referendum in Scotland and another EU referendum.
All the Tories + Flint + DUP + Zadrozny + 1/2 Sinn Fein will effectively oppose the second ref.
The Lib Dems will oppose the Scottish Ref.
If you thought this parliament looked indecisive...0 -
Its possible for Labour and the other potentially aligned parties to have all gone forwards and LDs to be crucial.AlastairMeeks said:
Actually no. If the Lib Dems are crucial to Labour forming a government, Labour will have gone backwards in the seat count.Time_to_Leave said:
In this scenario wouldn’t Corbyn have had to overturn a massive Tory poll lead and make significant gains in seats though? At that point he’d presumably have a larger (and more loyal - also due to moderates standing down) PLP.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour was willing in 2010 to ditch Gordon Brown to get Lib Dem support. Why not do the same in 2019?NickPalmer said:
The process AFAIK is this:
1. If someone has an overall majority the Queen says congrats, you're the government.
2. If nobody does, Johnson is entitled to try to struggle on until he runs into a VONC.
3. If he quits or a VONC is passed, the Queen rakes soundings on whether someone else might be able to govern without a VONC (I believe they would need a vote of confidence, but not necessarily with an overall majority voting for it). That includes a minority government surviving through the lack of a VONC - as we've had in the recent weeks.
4. If so, they get invited to have a try. They too can be brought down by a VONC.
5. If not, we get a new election. What joy.
In this situation, the LibDems would have clear choices in the event that they had enough seats to enable either Tory or Labour+SNP+Plaid to outvote the other:
1. Refuse to support a VONC in Johnson and enable him to continue in office.
2. Vote to remove Johnson, but don't support a VONC in Corbyn, enabling him to be PM.
3. Vote against both and force another election.
There is no realistic fourth option - demanding that other parties change their leaders to someone Swinson likes is not serious.. Swinson is avoiding having to choose by saying she wouldn't vote FOR Corbyn (abstention is not discussed), though she seems more reticent about Johnson. That is not a complete answer.
It’s never easy to put yourself in the shoes of someone else but in those circumstances, if I was one of them, I think I’d play hardball. Worst case I’d be thinking “one more heave”.
Current state of the parties prior to dissolution:
Tory 298
Labour 243
SNP 35
LD 20
Scenario:
Tory 310
Labour 250
SNP 40
LD 30
NI 18
Others 2
All parties have gone forward but LDs are still crucial. They would be kingmakers.0 -
If people want to believe labours plan is ludicrous it's not really for labour to 'debunk' that. They can say no, its totes amazeballs but that's not 'debunking'kinabalu said:
Usually yes. But this particular opinion has been comprehensively debunked and therefore ought not to be still floating around.Xtrain said:Why should he stop saying it's ludicrous if it is?
We are all entitled to our opinions.0 -
Are you going to say we can't question the idea that it has been debunked either?kinabalu said:
Usually yes. But this particular opinion has been comprehensively debunked and therefore ought not to be still floating around.Xtrain said:Why should he stop saying it's ludicrous if it is?
We are all entitled to our opinions.
Doubling down on being wrong.....0 -
Which incoming Labour leader do you think will agree to an independence referendum in Scotland, and why do you think the Lib Dems would vote for it?Pulpstar said:A Lib Dem propped up Labour minority Gov't likely involves a change of leader in the Labour party, a renegotiation with the EU, another referendum in Scotland and another EU referendum.
0 -
You'll have to find some definition of capitalism that includes the state borrowing a trillion pounds for one policy alone. Its not in any of my notes.Ishmael_Z said:
Borrowing money and using it to improve outcomes is called capitalism. If you go back over your notes you will probably find you are meant to be in favour of it. You may or may not agree with the Green theisis about climate change but that is an entirely separate point.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️0 -
I just tuned in to Corbyn. Did he make the press submit all their questions in one, so that he’s now answering them in one? No follow ups? He’s going to piss them off. Not wise.0
-
Yes. That happened after the December 1923 general election when Conservatives were the biggest party but had their King's speech voted down in January 1924.Stocky said:Can someone give me an answer to the following question:
If the Tories win most seats but fail to get a majority (and can`t form any coalitions) is it possible that a Labour minority government can arise - i.e. could Labour take charge as a minority government despite having fewer MPs than the Tories and with no agreements with other parties?
Labour then formed a minority government that lasted just 9 months.0 -
You might note that we have yet to pay any of that off...Noo said:
Terrible! That would take borrowing back to levels not seen since... [checks notes] three years into Cameron's government.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️0 -
What difference does being an independent make? They're still an MP.MarqueeMark said:
There is something not right that somebody can stand as an independent and, by virtue of getting not even one vote, can trouser tens of thousands of pounds. Perhaps it should be linked to at least saving their deposit. Give it an element of jeapordy...Xtrain said:Dominic Grieve hasn't got a chance in hell of retaining Beaconsfield.
He's standing for the pay off.
Oh and a few more weeks in the spotlight.0 -
I'm running into internal contradictions very quickly indeed in my Lab minority scenario. Looks like a recipe for chaos !Noo said:
Which incoming Labour leader do you think will agree to an independence referendum in Scotland, and why do you think the Lib Dems would vote for it?Pulpstar said:A Lib Dem propped up Labour minority Gov't likely involves a change of leader in the Labour party, a renegotiation with the EU, another referendum in Scotland and another EU referendum.
1 -
Sweepstake time! Where will the three uk wide leaders be five weeks today on the last day of campaigning?0
-
Indeed and three years into Cameron's government we were desperately trying to bring down borrowing because it was out of control, not deliberately trying to increase it!Noo said:
Terrible! That would take borrowing back to levels not seen since... [checks notes] three years into Cameron's government.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️2 -
Well I don't know - possibly.ozymandias said:Is it like a three year-old child explaining quantum physics?
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/11918152182776053760 -
That's for them to work out. I think it's not a bad thing that the Conservatives should be forced to work out how to appeal to voters they've rarely had to appeal to in the past.OllyT said:
Brexit has brought about a huge shift in voting patterns and the upcoming Tory majority is nailed on thanks to Corbyn.SouthamObserver said:One Nation Tories are abandoning the former Conservative and Unionist Party as it becomes the party of Bridgen, Francois, Rees Mogg, Patel and Raab. Yep, they will win this coming election thanks to Mr Corbyn, but beyond that what do they have? There is no talent anywhere to be seen, just dull, leaden, hard right, English nationalist, empathy-free, automatons. Those sitting next to and behind Johnson in the next parliament will tell the story of what the Tories now are. The post-December future looks extremely bleak for them - and for the country.
But that majority is not going to be made up in the way Tory Governments are normally made up, one-nation, remain Tories will be hollowed out being replaced by ex-Labour leavers and ex-Kippers.
What intrigues me is how does the party of Bozo, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Raab and the ERG go about holding onto to seats like Workington, Stoke and Grimsby once the dust of the Brexit battle dies down?
Once Brexit is over there seems to me to be a huge disconnect between the ideology of the new Conservative Party and many of the people that are going to give it its majority in the north and midlands and Wales.0 -
I am not sure firebrand is generally a good look for GE campaigns. Perhaps he has been told to turn it down so not to scare the horses. Its not like he has to convince the hard left types that would be enthused by such talk to vote for him.Big_G_NorthWales said:Listening to Corbyn he seems to be much less of a firebrand
Indeed he looks tired and unconvincing0 -
Like Labour, the Tories are becoming reliant on talentless and thick people because the decent ones have either left or been pushed.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/11920373940081704960 -
The extent to which the US ambassador to the EU appears to have ... recovered his memory over the Ukraine allegations is quite remarkable.
And devastating for Trump:
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/05/impeachment-testimony-released-gordon-sondland-kurt-volker-0659900 -
it is for Labour to debunk - but they have failed to do so.dyedwoolie said:
If people want to believe labours plan is ludicrous it's not really for labour to 'debunk' that. They can say no, its totes amazeballs but that's not 'debunking'kinabalu said:
Usually yes. But this particular opinion has been comprehensively debunked and therefore ought not to be still floating around.Xtrain said:Why should he stop saying it's ludicrous if it is?
We are all entitled to our opinions.0 -
She utterly lacks the personal charisma that would allow her to appeal beyond the narrow base she has defined for the LDs. It is difficulty to put a finger on it, but there is just something about her lecturing style that grates. She is I think putting off people who don't particularly care that much about Brexit, one way or the other.kinabalu said:
I don't like her either but I sense a touch of misogyny in some of the negative comments. Course, she didn't help herself in this regard with spurious claims that "sexism" was to blame for her debate exclusion, but still she seems to attract some OTT abuse. I do think that a greater than average level of personal vitriol is directed against female politicians.dyedwoolie said:Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?
0 -
Problem is - tax income for Government, any Government, is like crack. No tax is ever temporary despite good intentions Especially if that specific tax revenue is used to pay for other things (which it always is).OblitusSumMe said:
That's true, but that level of stimulus from infrastructure investment will cause problems, quite apart from the debt issue. Better to raise a carbon tax to pay for it (which is also temporary by design because once the job is done there will be no carbon emitted to be taxed).Ishmael_Z said:
Borrowing money and using it to improve outcomes is called capitalism. If you go back over your notes you will probably find you are meant to be in favour of it. You may or may not agree with the Green theisis about climate change but that is an entirely separate point.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️
A carbon tax, and the revenues it would generate would paradoxically require carbon to continue to be (excessively) produced, as it if has the intended effect of reducing CO2 to whatever target to stop the tax - where's the cash coming from the continue to pay for all the lovely things the tax paid for?
There'll have to be another thing to tax. And then another, And then another.
0 -
Swinson - Lewesdyedwoolie said:Sweepstake time! Where will the three uk wide leaders be five weeks today on the last day of campaigning?
Johnson - Coventry South
Corbyn - Stroud0 -
Yes, the cramped timeline is a valid concern. But it's even more of a concern as regards the FTA after Boris Brexit on 31 Jan.Big_G_NorthWales said:The policy is nonsense in so much as the time line is impossible
Junckers affirmed so yesterday but even if the EU decided to re open the WDA, renegotiating the elements into a new treaty and passing that by 27 leaders, and then putting a referendum legislation through the HOC plus 22 weeks campaigning would take most of 2020
But the larger problem is the EU will not even open talks if they think the labour party will then campaign against their new deal
Your last point, however, is not so valid. The EU would certainly not refuse to negotiate a closer alignment deal with an incoming Labour government. That or Remain, it's a win win for them.0 -
Running scared.Time_to_Leave said:I just tuned in to Corbyn. Did he make the press submit all their questions in one, so that he’s now answering them in one? No follow ups? He’s going to piss them off. Not wise.
0 -
-
I feel for those who feel obligated to vote but have no enthusiasm for what is on offer(as I am such). The appeal of staying home is high, but I wont do it.AlastairMeeks said:As to who I shall vote for, it will either be the Lib Dems or the Greens (probably the Lib Dems). Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
0 -
Is that 9% by volume, or by value ?eristdoof said:
Without looking it up, I'm sure the elsewhere should be higher, because Switzerland has such a strong pharmaceutical industry.Benpointer said:
Surpised you're surprised Big_G.Big_G_NorthWales said:Expert on NHS medication purchases from the US says only accounts for 9% of the whole UK supply
I did not realise that 91% of our drugs source outside the US
I'd assume something like 40% from UK, 40% from other EU countries, 10% from US, 10% from elsewhere. No idea if that's correct though.
And one should note that US pharma has a very large presence outside of the US - notably, from our point of view, in the Republic of Ireland.0 -
Staunch tories don’t like Swinson, staunch labour it’s don’t like Swinson. Swinson doing a good job then if she is getting under their skin.0
-
Go an spoil your ballot paper in the ballot booth.kle4 said:
I feel for those who feel obligated to vote but have no enthusiasm for what is on offer(as I am such). The appeal of staying home is high, but I wont do it.AlastairMeeks said:As to who I shall vote for, it will either be the Lib Dems or the Greens (probably the Lib Dems). Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
0 -
Her personal style seems to be 'Ambitious Assistant Headteacher, who arrives at a challenging school and starts loads of 'initiatives' which make more work for already overworked staff, before pissing off to a Deputy Head post at an academy chain within one year'.Wulfrun_Phil said:
She utterly lacks the personal charisma that would allow her to appeal beyond the narrow base she has defined for the LDs. It is difficulty to put a finger on it, but there is just something about her lecturing style that grates. She is I think putting off people who don't particularly care that much about Brexit, one way or the other.kinabalu said:
I don't like her either but I sense a touch of misogyny in some of the negative comments. Course, she didn't help herself in this regard with spurious claims that "sexism" was to blame for her debate exclusion, but still she seems to attract some OTT abuse. I do think that a greater than average level of personal vitriol is directed against female politicians.dyedwoolie said:Personally I find it and her rather disturbingly 'mumsnet/schoolgate warrior' but I guess theyve done their research?
0 -
OllyT said:
Brexit has brought about a huge shift in voting patterns and the upcoming Tory majority is nailed on thanks to Corbyn.
But that majority is not going to be made up in the way Tory Governments are normally made up, one-nation, remain Tories will be hollowed out being replaced by ex-Labour leavers and ex-Kippers.
What intrigues me is how does the party of Bozo, Rees-Mogg, Patel, Raab and the ERG go about holding onto to seats like Workington, Stoke and Grimsby once the dust of the Brexit battle dies down?
Once Brexit is over there seems to me to be a huge disconnect between the ideology of the new Conservative Party and many of the people that are going to give it its majority in the north and midlands and Wales.
Once Brexit is resolved it'll be time for a change of government I'd have thought (depending on whether Labour come back to their senses and get a leader that's electable of course)
Come 2024 the Tories will have had 14 years in office so I can't see them going on much longer than that.
The 2024 general election should be very winnable for Labour but again it depends on who follows Corbyn.0 -
Asked in bunches of four (up from three last time). Tricky ones ignored, difficult ones skated over, planted questions answered at length.Time_to_Leave said:I just tuned in to Corbyn. Did he make the press submit all their questions in one, so that he’s now answering them in one? No follow ups? He’s going to piss them off. Not wise.
And as you say, follow-ups are very difficult.
Journos already cheesed off with this, but difficult to solve unless they ask the same question four times (this may happen!).0 -
Laura Kuenessberg objecting that Corbyn is wrong to ask 4 questions at a timeozymandias said:
Running scared.Time_to_Leave said:I just tuned in to Corbyn. Did he make the press submit all their questions in one, so that he’s now answering them in one? No follow ups? He’s going to piss them off. Not wise.
0 -
Andy Street didn’t even carry Coventry in the WM Mayoral elections in 2017. What makes you think Boris will?0
-
The danger is real, but iirc you like I thought boris wanted no deal in October, and we were wrongCyclefree said:
His policy is a No Deal exit at the end of the transition period in December 2020, unless you believe that he can get an FTA agreed with the EU and implemented before then.AlastairMeeks said:More generally, Boris Johnson is trashing everything about the Conservative party (with the full backing of the zealots he leads) that these Conservatives value: respect for law; sound money; sceptical conservatism.
That is what the likes of @DavidL and other Tories voting for Johnson are voting for. It is the same policy as that of the ERG and all the others who wanted a departure on 31/10, deal or no deal, just with the date changed.
Quite why falling off a cliff into third country status is in the best interests of those people who fear chaos with Corbyn is unclear to me. It’s another form of chaos, though it has this to be said for it: all those companies and individuals who don’t what this hassle have a year to make plans to avoid it.0 -
Only speaking for myself but I think Britain needs to move forward, and to move forward it needs a leader whose left shoulder is a wheel.Time_to_Leave said:
How is she doing with Remain voters? The LibDems are not targeting a majority.
https://twitter.com/LibDemPress/status/11920030693803008042 -
And she’s right.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Laura Kuenessberg objecting that Corbyn is wrong to ask 4 questions at a timeozymandias said:
Running scared.Time_to_Leave said:I just tuned in to Corbyn. Did he make the press submit all their questions in one, so that he’s now answering them in one? No follow ups? He’s going to piss them off. Not wise.
0 -
Twitter
Jeremy Corbyn once again dodging all the questions put to him. absolutely no accountability. Really quite shocking.0 -
Another idea Corbyn's nicked from Boris.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Laura Kuenessberg objecting that Corbyn is wrong to ask 4 questions at a timeozymandias said:
Running scared.Time_to_Leave said:I just tuned in to Corbyn. Did he make the press submit all their questions in one, so that he’s now answering them in one? No follow ups? He’s going to piss them off. Not wise.
0 -
Not really, I just think you have flaws in your assumptions. The Lib Dems are opposed to an independence referendum and will vote against one should it come up in parliament. So that would not be part of a Labour/Lib Dem deal. Labour might acquiesce on that demand from the SNP, but Labour certainly won't demand it from the Lib Dems. They are, after all, a unionist party.Pulpstar said:
I'm running into internal contradictions very quickly indeed in my Lab minority scenario. Looks like a recipe for chaos !Noo said:
Which incoming Labour leader do you think will agree to an independence referendum in Scotland, and why do you think the Lib Dems would vote for it?Pulpstar said:A Lib Dem propped up Labour minority Gov't likely involves a change of leader in the Labour party, a renegotiation with the EU, another referendum in Scotland and another EU referendum.
A Labour/Lib Dem arrangement would probably see an attempt to bring a new EU referendum to the table.
Also, I think the chances of a deal being struck that requires any party to change their leader are higher than they've ever been, i.e. merely extremely unlikely.0 -
Early contender in the 'most dodgy graph in a leaflet' competition, and it's the Lib Dems. They've been strong in this category before, but the Scottish Tories might run them close this year.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/11920446837420564490 -
The Labour candidate is an absolute tool.Gallowgate said:Andy Street didn’t even carry Coventry in the WM Mayoral elections in 2017. What makes you think Boris will?
0 -
I really feel that if there is no clear majority after this GE then there will be serious discussions of moving to a form of PR, accompanied by a complete shake up of the party systems.
Looking back at the complete horlicks of the past three years this may not be a bad thing.0 -
You'd think she might want to be in Win-chester, rather than Lewes...Pulpstar said:
Swinson - Lewesdyedwoolie said:Sweepstake time! Where will the three uk wide leaders be five weeks today on the last day of campaigning?
Johnson - Coventry South
Corbyn - Stroud0 -
That picture might get even more disturbing if the luggage lockers are open....edmundintokyo said:
Only speaking for myself but I think Britain needs to move forward, and to move forward it needs a leader whose left shoulder is a wheel.Time_to_Leave said:
How is she doing with Remain voters? The LibDems are not targeting a majority.
https://twitter.com/LibDemPress/status/11920030693803008040 -
The average house price is £226 000, over 60% of voters are homeowners or children of homeowners so most voters would be affected.Flanner said:
Really? We all risk getting dementia when we're old, and in middle age we all risk having a dementia affected parent.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Be careful. This is an old artic leHYUFD said:Labour to lower inheritance tax threshold to £125 000 effectively, average UK house price £226 000. This could be Labour's dementia tax
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1191920338424213504?s=20
You need to wait the announcement but if Corbyn/McDonnell confirm this it is beyond stupid and is a 'dementia tax' moment
The delusion that a significant number of voters will be affected by the IHT threshold dropping to £125k merely shows how isolated from the real world are poshos like Dorries ( there's nothing special about having gone to a state school, and back in Liverpool, an MP's salary looks astronomically high) and people well-heeled enough to bet on politics as a hobby.
It shows how ideological and out of touch Corbynistas are they do not realise that1 -
"All aboard!" Is it a request stop service then? Be fun when some people start flagging it down - and then telling them they have to wait until they've done their shopping at Asda.....edmundintokyo said:
Only speaking for myself but I think Britain needs to move forward, and to move forward it needs a leader whose left shoulder is a wheel.Time_to_Leave said:
How is she doing with Remain voters? The LibDems are not targeting a majority.
https://twitter.com/LibDemPress/status/11920030693803008040 -
I don't think you can separate the discussion about PR from addressing the absence of an English parliament.Blue_rog said:I really feel that if there is no clear majority after this GE then there will be serious discussions of moving to a form of PR, accompanied by a complete shake up of the party systems.
Looking back at the complete horlicks of the past three years this may not be a bad thing.0 -
Look across the Atlantic...Philip_Thompson said:
You'll have to find some definition of capitalism that includes the state borrowing a trillion pounds for one policy alone. Its not in any of my notes.Ishmael_Z said:
Borrowing money and using it to improve outcomes is called capitalism. If you go back over your notes you will probably find you are meant to be in favour of it. You may or may not agree with the Green theisis about climate change but that is an entirely separate point.Philip_Thompson said:
Lets borrow a trillion pounds over the next decade . . . for our chidren's sake.Big_G_NorthWales said:Greens just announced £100 billion a year for the next 10 years for the climate change policies paid for by borrowing £91 billion per annum an £9 billion from corporation tax
There isn't a Facepalm big enough. 🤦♂️0 -
It's called doing a Johnson!Big_G_NorthWales said:Twitter
Jeremy Corbyn once again dodging all the questions put to him. absolutely no accountability. Really quite shocking.
0 -
Is the coward Boris Johnson about to repeat one of Mrs May’s blunders and chicken out of a debate?Anorak said:Like Labour, the Tories are becoming reliant on talentless and thick people because the decent ones have either left or been pushed.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/11920373940081704960
