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No. That’s simply factually incorrect. The proposal is a CU with the EU, as Turkey has - not remaining in the EU Customs Union itself. It deserves consideration as it is the policy of the second largest party in the Commons.Richard_Tyndall said:
It does not deserve consideration because it cannot happen. It is as much a unicorn as any extremist Brexiteer fantasy. No Deal might be terrible but it is possible. Staying in the EU CU is not possible without remaining in the EU.DougSeal said:
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?Philip_Thompson said:
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.DougSeal said:
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.Philip_Thompson said:I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union0 -
On time, as promised by Boris, on October 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered0 -
ReggieCide said:
Don't you have the vote yet?Anabobazina said:The SNP want to amend the bill to add V@16 and Veuc - the government won’t vote for that so we are an impasse. I think the SNP position is right: V@16 and Veuc are great ideas.
They would need some Tory votes or abstentions of course. Yet voting it through without the Tory front bench would be a hoot. Election with Vas and Veuc and Tories voting against the election - frit!edmundintokyo said:
Seems like there might be a majority for that without the Tories. What do the unreconciled ex-cons think?Anabobazina said:The SNP want to amend the bill to add V@16 and Veuc - the government won’t vote for that so we are an impasse. I think the SNP position is right: V@16 and Veuc are great ideas.
Won’t happen of course but we are in fantasy politics.0 -
Are you privy to that kind of thing?The_Taxman said:
HYUFD has been in more positions than one of Vaz's rentboys!Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
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And I'll add there is nothing which would satisfy the DUP except a guaranteed veto on all matters Northern Ireland.Danny565 said:
I'm not sure about that at all -- if there's a Tory majority, and the ERG perceives the alternative to Boris's Deal to be a No Deal Brexit (as opposed to last week, when they perceived the alternative to be Delay, and that therefore the Boris Deal was a lesser evil), I can see them going back to playing silly buggers.another_richard said:
If there is a Conservative majority after a GE then there will be no need of Labour support.Danny565 said:
But, if Lisa Nandy gets re-elected on a manifesto committed to a second referendum, then she will (justifiably) feel even less need to back a Brexit deal than she does now.another_richard said:
Given that Brexit was dependent upon the likes of Lisa Nandy voting for it perhaps they would prefer to take a chance with a GE.Yellow_Submarine said:Looks like the penny is dropping with Brexiters. A General Election on the terms Boris appears to be conceeding makes Brexit utterly contingent. An election creates a second chronologically superior mandate to the 3.5 year old advisory referendum. And one for an omnicompetent and soveriegn parliament. Maybe it will deliver a majority for Brexit. But maybe it won't. And every opposition party currently in the Commons ( and the DUP ) will come back with a fresh mandate and hardened opposition to Boris' deal. I wonder what the ex Spartans who bought in to Boris' deal and threw the DUP under a bus feel now ? That they haven't push Brexit over the line but instead taken a massive gamble on Brexit itself ?
(Some of the other 'Brexit-curious' Labour MPs, like Ruth Smeeth and Melanie Onn, will probably lose their seats even if Labour manage to somehow limit their net losses to 10-20.)
Even today, we had two of the ERG's finest starting to sound less than fulsome in their support for the deal:
https://twitter.com/cmackinlay/status/1188832714964787200
https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1188864661451661312
Plus loads more money.0 -
If the voting system was completely different in France, then she would have won, damn it.Gardenwalker said:
I don’t think he ever conceded that she did not.bigjohnowls said:
Marie Le Pen winning was my favourite HYUFD prediction.kjh said:
You also predictedHYUFD said:
I predicted Boris would do a Deal dumping the DUP, I predicted Justin Trudeau would be re elected and I am entirely happy with my prediction Boris will be re elected to get Brexit doneThe_Taxman said:
Labour polled 22% in the 2010 GE, they then achieved a week or two later 29%.HYUFD said:
On current polling Corbyn is more likely to go down as the worst Labour leader of them all, Labour is currently polling even worse than 1983 under Footrottenborough said:
If he loses to Corbyn he will go down in history as the worst Tory leader of them all.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He isrottenborough said:I have said repeatedly in recent months that a GE is our system's safety valve.
It is time to go back to the people.
But, boy, Johnson is taking an enormous gamble.
Your predications are lol! I would be embarrased if i was disprovern as regulary as you have been lately.
Macron blocking an extension?
Resigning if not out by 31/10?
Won't ask for an extension?0 -
Surely that's just taking them at their word. You only need a day for a one line election bill. You need three amendments - the 9th, the 10th, the 11th. Any other amendments would just be playing silly buggers.Danny565 said:
Oh, if the bill really is unamendable, then I doubt it's getting through.TheScreamingEagles said:
ThisRichard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
https://twitter.com/ianmurraymp/status/1188953124863692801?s=21
The Tories' stubbornness their own worst enemy, again.0 -
Come the glorious day.GIN1138 said:Owen Who on Newsnight being laughed at by Maitless!
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Many and various, but no means to enforce them. We are obliged to nominate a Commissioner. We are to behave nicely. We really ought to resolve this Brexit mess this time. No really. This time. Oh, and the Withdrawal Agreement is not to be renegotiated. No sirree.philiph said:Were there any conditions on the extension this morning?
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You reply to me often enough, which rather leads to the opposite impressionReggieCide said:
Sorry I'm not pinned to the site. I'm even less pinned to your postsAnabobazina said:
I laid down my reasons earlier this evening!ReggieCide said:
Are you easily horrified or am I missing something?Anabobazina said:
At least we might all be spared the horror of an election on a Monday. We can, at least, all rejoice at that news.rottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.0 -
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?0 -
They could give me my vote back while they're at it, that was Conservative policy until they did brexit and got suspicious of anyone with a foreign connection.Time_to_Leave said:
I wonder whether ex-Ministers (I include some Labour backbenchers here) might think it needs more thought than this? Is it just EU nationals or all legally resident foreign citizens? What about the wider rights of 16 year olds?
Suspect you’re right there’s a majority in principle though. Seems like broadly the right thing to do.0 -
EvenñnnntuaaaallĺlĺeèeèeHYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered0 -
If it was under the current rules, the election would be in 2022Richard_Nabavi said:
Because there is not a snowflake's chance in hell that the Conservatives would support a bill cynically amended like that, and quite right too. They may be a load of shysters nowadays, but they do have some residue of principle.Danny565 said:
I still don't get why people claim this would sabotage it.Richard_Nabavi said:
i.e. wanting to sabotage it.Anabobazina said:
They are simply trying to amend the bill with Vas and Veuc.Richard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
I guess they are feeling a bit left out. After all, their position was verging on coherent, and that is so unfashionable nowadays.
Even if votes at 16 and votes for EU citizens passed, although it would damage the Tories' chances at the margins, they would surely still support the election??
If the SNP, or anyone else, want an early election, it has to be on the current rules.0 -
So the SNP admit they wanted it to be amended to their advantage?TheScreamingEagles said:
ThisRichard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
https://twitter.com/ianmurraymp/status/1188953124863692801?s=210 -
And yet Chuka Umunna was on the radio this morning stating as fact that the bill the Lib Dems were proposing would be designed by the LD and SNP to be unamendable. So is this actually LD stubbornness?Danny565 said:
Oh, if the bill really is unamendable, then I doubt it's getting through.TheScreamingEagles said:
ThisRichard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
https://twitter.com/ianmurraymp/status/1188953124863692801?s=21
The Tories' stubbornness their own worst enemy, again.0 -
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it0 -
That option is available, but the SNP don't want it. Nor do the LibDems. Nor do the Conservatives. Nor, indeed, does Labour, inasmuch as they have anything remotely resembling a policy.Anabobazina said:
If it was under the current rules, the election would be in 2022Richard_Nabavi said:
Because there is not a snowflake's chance in hell that the Conservatives would support a bill cynically amended like that, and quite right too. They may be a load of shysters nowadays, but they do have some residue of principle.Danny565 said:
I still don't get why people claim this would sabotage it.Richard_Nabavi said:
i.e. wanting to sabotage it.Anabobazina said:
They are simply trying to amend the bill with Vas and Veuc.Richard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
I guess they are feeling a bit left out. After all, their position was verging on coherent, and that is so unfashionable nowadays.
Even if votes at 16 and votes for EU citizens passed, although it would damage the Tories' chances at the margins, they would surely still support the election??
If the SNP, or anyone else, want an early election, it has to be on the current rules.0 -
You could argue they should either want to give you the vote (it’s a right as a Brit) or to give it to foreign citizens resident here (it’s about living here and being part of our society); consistency requires one or ‘tother.edmundintokyo said:
They could give me my vote back while they're at it, that was Conservative policy until they did brexit and got suspicious of anyone with a foreign connection.Time_to_Leave said:
I wonder whether ex-Ministers (I include some Labour backbenchers here) might think it needs more thought than this? Is it just EU nationals or all legally resident foreign citizens? What about the wider rights of 16 year olds?
Suspect you’re right there’s a majority in principle though. Seems like broadly the right thing to do.0 -
+1 on the same level as sheepAnabobazina said:
You reply to me often enough, which rather leads to the opposite impressionReggieCide said:
Sorry I'm not pinned to the site. I'm even less pinned to your postsAnabobazina said:
I laid down my reasons earlier this evening!ReggieCide said:
Are you easily horrified or am I missing something?Anabobazina said:
At least we might all be spared the horror of an election on a Monday. We can, at least, all rejoice at that news.rottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.0 -
Sorry, I've been losing track of which is whichAnabobazina said:
Won’t happen of course but we are in fantasy politics.0 -
Fair pointTime_to_Leave said:
You could argue they should either want to give you the vote (it’s a right as a Brit) or to give it to foreign citizens resident here (it’s about living here and being part of our society); consistency requires one or ‘tother.edmundintokyo said:
They could give me my vote back while they're at it, that was Conservative policy until they did brexit and got suspicious of anyone with a foreign connection.Time_to_Leave said:
I wonder whether ex-Ministers (I include some Labour backbenchers here) might think it needs more thought than this? Is it just EU nationals or all legally resident foreign citizens? What about the wider rights of 16 year olds?
Suspect you’re right there’s a majority in principle though. Seems like broadly the right thing to do.0 -
I dont know why Remainers are gleeful at the countries finances going south?Gardenwalker said:Keep Boris in limbo.
Rope-a-dope.
And let’s get those OBR forecasts published too.
The government finances are tanking while Boris fiddles.0 -
The election result would not be a superior mandate. If you think this is just going away whatever the result of the election you are very seriously deluded.Yellow_Submarine said:Looks like the penny is dropping with Brexiters. A General Election on the terms Boris appears to be conceeding makes Brexit utterly contingent. An election creates a second chronologically superior mandate to the 3.5 year old advisory referendum. And one for an omnicompetent and soveriegn parliament. Maybe it will deliver a majority for Brexit. But maybe it won't. And every opposition party currently in the Commons ( and the DUP ) will come back with a fresh mandate and hardened opposition to Boris' deal. I wonder what the ex Spartans who bought in to Boris' deal and threw the DUP under a bus feel now ? That they haven't push Brexit over the line but instead taken a massive gamble on Brexit itself ?
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He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension0 -
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?0 -
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
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If they cant win it against Hodge, then who?Anabobazina said:
Yes the widespread forecasts of deselections have proved yet another brick in the wall of mythologySandyRentool said:
Momentum.rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1188945857737089025AramintaMoonbeamQC said:Margaret Hodge survives deselection attempt, according to the Twitters.
Piss and wind.0 -
And who knows his constituents better than you, eh?HYUFD said:
His constituents are fed up with this Parliament which has refused time after time to deliver Brexit and will not vote for the Boris Deal as stands either, which is precisely why Boris needs a majority to deliver Brexitrottenborough said:0 -
In which case that is a disastrously bad suggestion and they are conning everyone.DougSeal said:
No. That’s simply factually incorrect. The proposal is a CU with the EU, as Turkey has - not remaining in the EU Customs Union itself. It deserves consideration as it is the policy of the second largest party in the Commons.Richard_Tyndall said:
It does not deserve consideration because it cannot happen. It is as much a unicorn as any extremist Brexiteer fantasy. No Deal might be terrible but it is possible. Staying in the EU CU is not possible without remaining in the EU.DougSeal said:
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?Philip_Thompson said:
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.DougSeal said:
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.Philip_Thompson said:I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union
A Turkish style Customs Union means that any country with an FTA with the EU will be allowed to sell into the UK tariff free whilst the UK will not have reciprocal rights. That is the situation for Turkey which is why they said that if the EU signed an FTA with either the US or China - their two biggest trading partners - then they would be forced to withdraw from the EU-Turkey Customs Union.
So no it does not deserve consideration.0 -
Haha. Yes. You didn’t say we’d leave on the 31st and Boris refused an extension.HYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
Beautiful.0 -
Maybe but I genuinely can’t decide which I think! I’d have to think about it and listen to the arguments.edmundintokyo said:
Fair pointTime_to_Leave said:
You could argue they should either want to give you the vote (it’s a right as a Brit) or to give it to foreign citizens resident here (it’s about living here and being part of our society); consistency requires one or ‘tother.edmundintokyo said:
They could give me my vote back while they're at it, that was Conservative policy until they did brexit and got suspicious of anyone with a foreign connection.Time_to_Leave said:
I wonder whether ex-Ministers (I include some Labour backbenchers here) might think it needs more thought than this? Is it just EU nationals or all legally resident foreign citizens? What about the wider rights of 16 year olds?
Suspect you’re right there’s a majority in principle though. Seems like broadly the right thing to do.0 -
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
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No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension0 -
Forget Hillary Clinton, according to 538, it's Michelle Obama who's leading in New Hampshire:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/0 -
Could be. In the very unlikely event that a party won a majority with the explicit manifesto promise to revoke, are you saying that that manifesto promise should be disregarded? I don’t think that holds up.Richard_Tyndall said:
The election result would not be a superior mandate. If you think this is just going away whatever the result of the election you are very seriously deluded.Yellow_Submarine said:Looks like the penny is dropping with Brexiters. A General Election on the terms Boris appears to be conceeding makes Brexit utterly contingent. An election creates a second chronologically superior mandate to the 3.5 year old advisory referendum. And one for an omnicompetent and soveriegn parliament. Maybe it will deliver a majority for Brexit. But maybe it won't. And every opposition party currently in the Commons ( and the DUP ) will come back with a fresh mandate and hardened opposition to Boris' deal. I wonder what the ex Spartans who bought in to Boris' deal and threw the DUP under a bus feel now ? That they haven't push Brexit over the line but instead taken a massive gamble on Brexit itself ?
0 -
Maybe Boris shouldn’t have negotiated a deal that wouldn’t have the support of the Commons, or the country for that matter.HYUFD said:
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
He has a nasty habit in promising things he has no power to deliver.0 -
Wouldn't he have been truer to himself if he'd resigned rather than submit the letter?HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension0 -
I think the government bill has been designed to offer concessions .
So ruling out amendments tabled by the opposition but then after some discussions in the morning the government tables its own amendment to the date and another one ruling out the WAIB coming back .
The bill as designed has no chance of getting through without concessions .0 -
HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension 0 -
Given his record of 'success' in terms of predictions, have we considered the possibility that he is in fact 'Mystic' John McTernan?Gallowgate said:
Haha. Yes. You didn’t say we’d leave on the 31st and Boris refused an extension.HYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
Beautiful.0 -
You’ve just considered it and rejected it. Others may want the same opportunity to consider it and may come to differing conclusions,Richard_Tyndall said:
In which case that is a disastrously bad suggestion and they are conning everyone.DougSeal said:
No. That’s simply factually incorrect. The proposal is a CU with the EU, as Turkey has - not remaining in the EU Customs Union itself. It deserves consideration as it is the policy of the second largest party in the Commons.Richard_Tyndall said:
It does not deserve consideration because it cannot happen. It is as much a unicorn as any extremist Brexiteer fantasy. No Deal might be terrible but it is possible. Staying in the EU CU is not possible without remaining in the EU.DougSeal said:
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?Philip_Thompson said:
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.DougSeal said:
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.Philip_Thompson said:I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union
A Turkish style Customs Union means that any country with an FTA with the EU will be allowed to sell into the UK tariff free whilst the UK will not have reciprocal rights. That is the situation for Turkey which is why they said that if the EU signed an FTA with either the US or China - their two biggest trading partners - then they would be forced to withdraw from the EU-Turkey Customs Union.
So no it does not deserve consideration.0 -
I think the Ken Clarke idea is that we’re big enough that an EU/U.K. CU would include us in trade deals, on the basis that it would be in the EU’s interest to speak on our behalf too (scale wise).Richard_Tyndall said:
In which case that is a disastrously bad suggestion and they are conning everyone.DougSeal said:
No. That’s simply factually incorrect. The proposal is a CU with the EU, as Turkey has - not remaining in the EU Customs Union itself. It deserves consideration as it is the policy of the second largest party in the Commons.Richard_Tyndall said:
It does not deserve consideration because it cannot happen. It is as much a unicorn as any extremist Brexiteer fantasy. No Deal might be terrible but it is possible. Staying in the EU CU is not possible without remaining in the EU.DougSeal said:
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?Philip_Thompson said:
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.DougSeal said:
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.Philip_Thompson said:I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article)ss.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Turkey_Customs_Union
A Turkish style Customs Union means that any country with an FTA with the EU will be allowed to sell into the UK tariff free whilst the UK will not have reciprocal rights. That is the situation for Turkey which is why they said that if the EU signed an FTA with either the US or China - their two biggest trading partners - then they would be forced to withdraw from the EU-Turkey Customs Union.
So no it does not deserve consideration.
However that is unproven and still leaves our fate in others’ hands, which is why I’m not with Clarke on this one. We can have a pretty “soft” EFTA (even EEA) Brexit without me being too worried (possibly even quite happy) but I think a CU makes no rational sense.0 -
As I said in the previous thread I think the date and voting rights are both there to be sacrificed as a face saver.
0 -
Why were you looking a bit vacant?HYUFD said:
Walked past Vaz the other day looking a bit vacantMarqueeMark said:
Vaz is just scum.Nemtynakht said:
It’s worse than that though - he’s despicably trying to say he has a mental illness - rightly described as ludicrous.egg said:
He should have resigned before now. How can you have that sort of judgement passed on you and not have the decency to resign?IanB2 said:
The recall process falls, if there’s a GEjustin124 said:On other matters, I do not believe Keith Vaz should be allowed to remain in Parliament. He should be recalled.
MPs have been shagging rent boys (using and abusing young men sex workers is another way of putting it) since the year dot, but when you are in public life and found out you have to go. It ties in with being wrong and unlawful whilst MPs make law and People who choose to go into public office have to set example by doing the right thing, giving up habits which are the wrong ones. Whether you are sat on comfy majority or not doesn’t come into it.
It’s clearly worse in the morality scale than getting someone else to take your speeding points.0 -
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?0 -
MarqueeMark “predicted” that the Wales game on Sunday started at 8am UK time as the Japanese clocks didn’t go back. I’m not going to give much credence to his other predictions.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Given his record of 'success' in terms of predictions, have we considered the possibility that he is in fact 'Mystic' John McTernan?Gallowgate said:
Haha. Yes. You didn’t say we’d leave on the 31st and Boris refused an extension.HYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
Beautiful.3 -
So you are proposing something that you accept would be bad for the country. Bear in mind that I don't believe that Brexit will be bad for the country so this is not a matter of equivalence. If you are proposing something that you agree would be disastrous but still want to do it you are no better than the ERG extremists.DougSeal said:
You’ve just considered it and rejected it. Others may want the same opportunity to consider it and may come to differing conclusions,0 -
Has anyone ever seen him and Dan Hodges in the same roomAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Given his record of 'success' in terms of predictions, have we considered the possibility that he is in fact 'Mystic' John McTernan?Gallowgate said:
Haha. Yes. You didn’t say we’d leave on the 31st and Boris refused an extension.HYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
Beautiful.
Just saying0 -
Surely no way the Govt concedes on voting rights.
However Govt could concede on date.
So what are we expecting - Govt concedes date of 9 / 10 / 11 Dec in return for no other amendments?0 -
Agree completely. EFTA/EEA makes perfect sense. Bolting on a Turkish style CU does not.Time_to_Leave said:
I think the Ken Clarke idea is that we’re big enough that an EU/U.K. CU would include us in trade deals, on the basis that it would be in the EU’s interest to speak on our behalf too (scale wise).
However that is unproven and still leaves our fate in others’ hands, which is why I’m not with Clarke on this one. We can have a pretty “soft” EFTA (even EEA) Brexit without me being too worried (possibly even quite happy) but I think a CU makes no rational sense.0 -
His Deal has the support of the country, just not the Commons, hence we need an electionGallowgate said:
Maybe Boris shouldn’t have negotiated a deal that wouldn’t have the support of the Commons, or the country for that matter.HYUFD said:
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
He has a nasty habit in promising things he has no power to deliver.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1185485189914464256?s=200 -
I am saying that of course they would follow through but it would be democratically illegitimate given that the original mandate had been ignored and blocked. Under those circumstances they should not expect the 40- 50% or so who still wanted Brexit to accept it or believe it had any legitimacy.DougSeal said:
Could be. In the very unlikely event that a party won a majority with the explicit manifesto promise to revoke, are you saying that that manifesto promise should be disregarded? I don’t think that holds up.Richard_Tyndall said:
The election result would not be a superior mandate. If you think this is just going away whatever the result of the election you are very seriously deluded.Yellow_Submarine said:Looks like the penny is dropping with Brexiters. A General Election on the terms Boris appears to be conceeding makes Brexit utterly contingent. An election creates a second chronologically superior mandate to the 3.5 year old advisory referendum. And one for an omnicompetent and soveriegn parliament. Maybe it will deliver a majority for Brexit. But maybe it won't. And every opposition party currently in the Commons ( and the DUP ) will come back with a fresh mandate and hardened opposition to Boris' deal. I wonder what the ex Spartans who bought in to Boris' deal and threw the DUP under a bus feel now ? That they haven't push Brexit over the line but instead taken a massive gamble on Brexit itself ?
0 -
Can someone explain why there's such a ding dong over 9th Dec and 12th Dec cause I can't work it out?0
-
Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.0 -
Don't be cruel.kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?0 -
Take cum grano salis.TheScreamingEagles said:
ThisRichard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
https://twitter.com/ianmurraymp/status/1188953124863692801?s=210 -
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?0 -
If those amendments go through hopefully the bill will be pulled.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.0 -
I’m not proposing anything. I’m saying that it is worthy of consideration. Neither am I making any value judgments on the proposal. You really should stop leaping into the ad hominems at the drop of a hat. I’ve been perfectly civil in this exchange.Richard_Tyndall said:
So you are proposing something that you accept would be bad for the country. Bear in mind that I don't believe that Brexit will be bad for the country so this is not a matter of equivalence. If you are proposing something that you agree would be disastrous but still want to do it you are no better than the ERG extremists.DougSeal said:
You’ve just considered it and rejected it. Others may want the same opportunity to consider it and may come to differing conclusions,0 -
We know that unicorns are popular. A Michelle Obama candidacy falls into that category.rcs1000 said:Forget Hillary Clinton, according to 538, it's Michelle Obama who's leading in New Hampshire:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/0 -
That poll doesn’t say what you said it says. It’s the country’s favourite 2nd option. That’s damning with faint praise.HYUFD said:
His Deal has the support of the country, just not the Commons, hence we need an electionGallowgate said:
Maybe Boris shouldn’t have negotiated a deal that wouldn’t have the support of the Commons, or the country for that matter.HYUFD said:
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
He has a nasty habit in promising things he has no power to deliver.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1185485189914464256?s=200 -
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
Why do you oppose them?Richard_Tyndall said:
If those amendments go through hopefully the bill will be pulled.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.0 -
I hope Labour do try and amend the bill with both categories.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.
They will fail but it will be electoral dynamite for the Tories.
I bet Cummings can't believe the stupidity of some of the opposition.0 -
There was no ad hominem. I said that 'If you are proposing..' I am attacking a really stupid idea not the person suggesting it.DougSeal said:
I’m not proposing anything. I’m saying that it is worthy of consideration. Neither am I making any value judgments on the proposal. You really should stop leaping into the ad hominems at the drop of a hat. I’ve been perfectly civil in this exchange.Richard_Tyndall said:
So you are proposing something that you accept would be bad for the country. Bear in mind that I don't believe that Brexit will be bad for the country so this is not a matter of equivalence. If you are proposing something that you agree would be disastrous but still want to do it you are no better than the ERG extremists.DougSeal said:
You’ve just considered it and rejected it. Others may want the same opportunity to consider it and may come to differing conclusions,
Stop looking for insults where there are none.0 -
It is the preferred option for first and second choices combinedDougSeal said:
That poll doesn’t say what you said it says. It’s the country’s favourite 2nd option. That’s damning with faint praise.HYUFD said:
His Deal has the support of the country, just not the Commons, hence we need an electionGallowgate said:
Maybe Boris shouldn’t have negotiated a deal that wouldn’t have the support of the Commons, or the country for that matter.HYUFD said:
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
He has a nasty habit in promising things he has no power to deliver.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1185485189914464256?s=200 -
Rank amateur that Tory SwinsonTheScreamingEagles said:
ThisRichard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
https://twitter.com/ianmurraymp/status/1188953124863692801?s=210 -
I note this evening that Eastasia has been our eternal partner and ally1
-
Fair point.bigjohnowls said:
Has anyone ever seen him and Dan Hodges in the same roomAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Given his record of 'success' in terms of predictions, have we considered the possibility that he is in fact 'Mystic' John McTernan?Gallowgate said:
Haha. Yes. You didn’t say we’d leave on the 31st and Boris refused an extension.HYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
Beautiful.
Just saying0 -
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
No as I have also said Macron would not veto extension if a GE was voted for or EUref2kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?0 -
They are SNP amendments and I’m not sure they’d be the Tory dynamite you are hoping forSunnyJim said:
I hope Labour do try and amend the bill with both categories.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.
They will fail but it will be electoral dynamite for the Tories.
I bet Cummings can't believe the stupidity of some of the opposition.0 -
Is it untrue?Dadge said:
Take cum grano salis.TheScreamingEagles said:
ThisRichard_Nabavi said:Why are the SNP throwing their toys out of their pram?
https://twitter.com/ianmurraymp/status/1188953124863692801?s=210 -
That’s meaningless because you can’t have both. Why didn’t you post Survation’s previous tweet about the most popular first choice? Can you tell the class what it was?HYUFD said:
It is the preferred option for first and second choices combinedDougSeal said:
That poll doesn’t say what you said it says. It’s the country’s favourite 2nd option. That’s damning with faint praise.HYUFD said:
His Deal has the support of the country, just not the Commons, hence we need an electionGallowgate said:
Maybe Boris shouldn’t have negotiated a deal that wouldn’t have the support of the Commons, or the country for that matter.HYUFD said:
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
He has a nasty habit in promising things he has no power to deliver.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1185485189914464256?s=200 -
If there's no VfmcD, then there's no way I'm supporting the bill.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.0 -
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternativeGallowgate said:
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
If any Labour MPs vote for them (and they will) then that will be good enough for the campaign literature.Anabobazina said:
They are SNP amendments and I’m not sure they’d be the Tory dynamite you are hoping for
0 -
Another way to do it is just to draw the franchise inclusively. People who aren't really paying attention to the politics of country X won't vote there, so it's not obvious where the damage is. Or if you're really bothered about people having the right to vote twice, have them promise not to vote anywhere else when they register.Time_to_Leave said:
Maybe but I genuinely can’t decide which I think! I’d have to think about it and listen to the arguments.edmundintokyo said:
Fair pointTime_to_Leave said:
You could argue they should either want to give you the vote (it’s a right as a Brit) or to give it to foreign citizens resident here (it’s about living here and being part of our society); consistency requires one or ‘tother.edmundintokyo said:
They could give me my vote back while they're at it, that was Conservative policy until they did brexit and got suspicious of anyone with a foreign connection.Time_to_Leave said:
I wonder whether ex-Ministers (I include some Labour backbenchers here) might think it needs more thought than this? Is it just EU nationals or all legally resident foreign citizens? What about the wider rights of 16 year olds?
Suspect you’re right there’s a majority in principle though. Seems like broadly the right thing to do.
What isn't acceptable is a rule that, even if followed by other countries, results in substantial numbers of people not being able to vote anywhere. That's what Britain has now.1 -
Nah. Leavers are either cowards or elderly. There will be no rioting on Thursday.HYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternativeGallowgate said:
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
HYUFD said:
No as I have also said Macron would not veto extension if a GE was voted for or EUref2kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?
I quoted your entire post!0 -
Possibly it's so that the Lib Dems can give Boris Johnson almost exactly what he wants without being seen to be in his pocket. Swinson can force him into a humiliating concession by bringing his landslide victory forward by three days.GIN1138 said:Can someone explain why there's such a ding dong over 9th Dec and 12th Dec cause I can't work it out?
1 -
No, you selectively quoted one post while completely ignoring all the others and the context in which it was placed as you have your own ideological agendakjh said:HYUFD said:
No as I have also said Macron would not veto extension if a GE was voted for or EUref2kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?
I quoted your entire post!0 -
But properly scrutinised, the Boris deal is unlikely to get through the current Parliament (and almost certainly not without amendments the Tories won’t agree to), which is why the three day malarkey.Cyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
And why now the election.
And in any event, no one in opposition wants to fight a election immediately after agreeing a Boris deal - whereas Ken is not running again.
Of course the next Parliament might also be hung, but even if that is the case, it is very likely to be differently hung.
0 -
But we can’t have a late December or January election (campaigning over Christmas) surely? once this week, the last chance for early December election is gone, it will backlash on government if they don’t bring back the WAB and have a budget, don’t you think? Surely you must expect backlash if government continues on strike?HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
Anyway off to bed.
What would be fun is a GE leading to another hung Parliament where the Lib Dems hold the balance of power.
Night all.0 -
Maybe you shouldn’t say things if you don’t mean them?HYUFD said:
No, you selectively quoted one post while completely ignoring all the others and the context in which it was placed as you have your own ideological agendakjh said:HYUFD said:
No as I have also said Macron would not veto extension if a GE was voted for or EUref2kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?
I quoted your entire post!1 -
HYUFD is never wrong. Sometimes the facts are wrong.HYUFD said:
No as I have also said Macron would not veto extension if a GE was voted for or EUref2kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?3 -
The EDL will likely be in attendance in force as they were on March 31stGallowgate said:
Nah. Leavers are either cowards or elderly. There will be no rioting on Thursday.HYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternativeGallowgate said:
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
75% of 52% but not 27% of 34% support policy "X" whatever it is and therefore 98% say "Yes" which means "no". So Maybe....DougSeal said:
That’s meaningless because you can’t have both. Why didn’t you post Survation’s previous tweet about the most popular first choice? Can you tell the class what it was?HYUFD said:
It is the preferred option for first and second choices combinedDougSeal said:
That poll doesn’t say what you said it says. It’s the country’s favourite 2nd option. That’s damning with faint praise.HYUFD said:
His Deal has the support of the country, just not the Commons, hence we need an electionGallowgate said:
Maybe Boris shouldn’t have negotiated a deal that wouldn’t have the support of the Commons, or the country for that matter.HYUFD said:
Translation, make it harder to add a Customs Union to a WA and dilute it out of existence or another referendumCyclefree said:
Yes he does. By going for a GE the Tories are making it harder for a WA to get through in time for the 31/1 date and be properly scrutinised.AlastairMeeks said:
Of course he does.rpjs said:Am I missing something, or didn't Ken Clarke have a point when he said there's now sufficient time to properly debate and pass the WAIB and that's what Parliament should do now?
He has a nasty habit in promising things he has no power to deliver.
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1185485189914464256?s=20
I hope that clears it up for you
0 -
And?HYUFD said:
The EDL will likely be in attendance in force as they were on March 31stGallowgate said:
Nah. Leavers are either cowards or elderly. There will be no rioting on Thursday.HYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternativeGallowgate said:
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
I wouldn’t rule it out. Even remain rallies have a different tone now 😕Gallowgate said:
Nah. Leavers are either cowards or elderly. There will be no rioting on Thursday.HYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternativeGallowgate said:
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
Votes for male clothing Designers?rcs1000 said:
If there's no VfmcD, then there's no way I'm supporting the bill.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.
Votes for money-creating Deities?
Votes for mongrel collared Dogs?
Votes for multiple company Directorships?0 -
No, I expect further backlash against MPs for refusing to deliver Brexit.egg said:
But we can’t have a late December or January election (campaigning over Christmas) surely? And once this week, the last chance for early December election is gone, it will backlash on government if they don’t bring back the WAB and have a budget, don’t you think? Surely you must expect backlash if government continues on strike?HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent
The anger is only starting to simmer to the boil0 -
Votes for my cat Diego.OblitusSumMe said:
Votes for male clothing Designers?rcs1000 said:
If there's no VfmcD, then there's no way I'm supporting the bill.Anabobazina said:Veuc and Vas both make sense.
Vas, because if we are trying to engage young people in politics and civic life, it makes sense to let them vote. They can already do so in Scotland.
Veuc, because there are 3 million EU citizens in the UK who have enriched the country greatly and who contribute hugely to our companies and public life.
So I’d back an election on Dec 12 with Vas and Veuc amendments.
Votes for money-creating Deities?
Votes for mongrel collared Dogs?
Votes for multiple company Directorships?
I mean, come on, everybody knows this.0 -
Frothers will continue to froth. Who cares?HYUFD said:
No, I expect further backlash against MPs for refusing to deliver Brexit.egg said:
But we can’t have a late December or January election (campaigning over Christmas) surely? And once this week, the last chance for early December election is gone, it will backlash on government if they don’t bring back the WAB and have a budget, don’t you think? Surely you must expect backlash if government continues on strike?HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent
The anger is only starting to simmer to the boil0 -
HYUFD is never wrong when his contributions are treated as a whole, because if any individual utterance appears to be wrong, there will be another one which contradicts it.HYUFD said:
No, you selectively quoted one post while completely ignoring all the others and the context in which it was placed as you have your own ideological agendakjh said:HYUFD said:
No as I have also said Macron would not veto extension if a GE was voted for or EUref2kjh said:
OK on 19/10 you said 'And macron will then veto further extension if the Commons has not voted for a deal by then end of the week'HYUFD said:
No he forwarded Parliament's extension request, he refused extension himselfbigjohnowls said:
He sent a letter requesting an extensionHYUFD said:
No I did not, I said Boris would refuse to request an extension, which he did whatever Parliament requested.Gallowgate said:
You also said that Brexit would be delivered by Oct 31st.HYUFD said:
There is no failure from Boris, just delayed success.Gallowgate said:Watching @HYUFD justify Boris’s failure is very entertaining.
Brexit WILL be delivered
The fight goes on as this current Parliament will never deliver Brexit so an election it has to be to replace it
MLP would have refused a Brexit extension
So do you agree that you were wrong?
I quoted your entire post!0 -
We demand an election, but on the date our guy specified and not your proposed date 3 days earlier, otherwise we will fucking BURN THIS CITY DOWNHYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternative0 -
Wouldn't they be better rearranging for 31.1.20 or later.HYUFD said:
The EDL will likely be in attendance in force as they were on March 31stGallowgate said:
Nah. Leavers are either cowards or elderly. There will be no rioting on Thursday.HYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternativeGallowgate said:
Oh you’re ramping violence again. Boring.HYUFD said:
Move on to what? No, he will keep pressing a GE day in, day out until it gets delivered.egg said:
But Boris has to start governing properly again next week? Even those voting for WAB of all colours now say where is it. The calls from outside politics for a budget will grow too.HYUFD said:
The opposition voted against the WAB (the backbenchers who voted against it want to add a CU anyway) and the opposition would vote against the Queen's Speech tooegg said:
So what does Boris do next week?HYUFD said:
They won't pass it without adding a CU to it making it redundant as most Tory MPs will not then vote for itBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - Boris brings his WAIB back and it passes with labour mps scared of an electionrottenborough said:
Sounds like SNP now backing out and LD wont go it alone.kle4 said:
Like many things its not the decision itself that is most annoying, its the yes no maybe failure to even make a decision which is galling.rottenborough said:Newsnight saying GE chances have receded tonight.
What a clusterf*ck.
So we now waste the run-up to Xmas doing nothing, followed by another crisis in early Jan.
On the plus side, he won’t be dead. As blofeld said, you only live twice Mr Bond.
But this weeks tactic starts to rebound next week? Opposition saying where’s the budget the nation needs, you’ve passed a queens speech, you got thirty majority for WAB where is it might start to hit home.
In the game of snooker someone is snookered. A shot or two later the other sides snookered?
If he don’t win the game of snookers this week, the last chance for GE this year or even this winter he has to concede the frame and move on next week surely or end up snookered himself?
The WAB was offered, MPs just voted to amend it out of existence.
Meanwhile a Leavers rally is planned for Westminster on Thursday and may well turn violent0 -
edmundintokyo said:
We demand an election, but on the date our guy specified and not your proposed date 3 days earlier, otherwise we will fucking BURN THIS CITY DOWNHYUFD said:
Not ramping but it is possible, if MPs refuse to deliver Brexit as a majority of voters voted for and refuse to enable a GE then inevitably some may well turn to violence and rioting as an alternative
0
This discussion has been closed.