Late to the party, but my own little observation on the Lib Dem magazine: we also got it here in North East Herts. The Lib Dems have been making council gains where I live (Royston, which is in the Pale of Cambridge) for several years, but nonetheless leafleting us like this is nothing if not ambitious. Our Tory incumbent is sitting on a twenty thousand majority IIRC, and he's not exactly a hard Brexiteer either.
On other matters, I do not believe Keith Vaz should be allowed to remain in Parliament. He should be recalled.
Will Labour let him stand again in December?
If they do, what happens to his suspension? Can such things cross parliaments? The timing is deeply unfortunate as it seems like he will escape the process of recall.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Irrelevant. If it’s true or not , you can’t beat a pathological liar like Bozo with a campaign built on the highest ethics.
Will you also be calling out any possible Tory misinformation.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Why should trifling inconvenience like the truth get in the way of the most effective scare tactic in the next general election.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....
Not many.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
CU Brexit is pointless. Can you name any prominent leavers who back that? Why would that even be a proposal?
In a CU but out of the Single Market sorts your immigration issues out. Once that is done I doubt very many Joe Publics give a monkeys about who negotiates your FTAs.
I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
It’s the big majority of electorate compromising around taking a step in that direction, from which we could step either way in future.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Your beloved Trumpton keeps saying it is
You are relying on Trump as your source? Hahahahaha!
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Your beloved Trumpton keeps saying it is
His words are on camera and US pharmaceutical companies have long pushed for changes .
Labour will use this against the Tories and so will the rest of the opposition. They need to eat into the over 65 vote who currently are Bozos base .
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....
Not many.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
CU Brexit is pointless. Can you name any prominent leavers who back that? Why would that even be a proposal?
In a CU but out of the Single Market sorts your immigration issues out. Once that is done I doubt very many Joe Publics give a monkeys about who negotiates your FTAs.
I don't give a rats ass about immigration.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Your beloved Trumpton keeps saying it is
His words are on camera and US pharmaceutical companies have long pushed for changes .
Labour will use this against the Tories and so will the rest of the opposition. They need to eat into the over 65 vote who currently are Bozos base .
Trump won't be negotiating the FTA. It will most likely be President Elizabeth Warren.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
It’s the big majority of electorate compromising around taking a step in that direction, from which we could step either way in future.
Evidence of that? I've not seen anyone at all let alone 'a big majority of electorate' "compromising around taking a step in that direction" I just see people who openly say they don't want Brexit putting up a form of Brexit that Brexiteers don't want and is universally condemned as moronic as the alternative to Remaining.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....
Not many.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
CU Brexit is pointless. Can you name any prominent leavers who back that? Why would that even be a proposal?
In a CU but out of the Single Market sorts your immigration issues out. Once that is done I doubt very many Joe Publics give a monkeys about who negotiates your FTAs.
Immigration? The debate is beyond immigration now.
Think the deliveroo advert “no carbs before marbs”.
The people cooking that food for us, do you think they currently come in under an immigration policy. Do you think they will stop coming in under a post brexit immigration policy?
The moment someone plays football for England who came here illegally is the moment immigration is tippexed out the Oxford English Dictionary.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Your beloved Trumpton keeps saying it is
His words are on camera and US pharmaceutical companies have long pushed for changes .
Labour will use this against the Tories and so will the rest of the opposition. They need to eat into the over 65 vote who currently are Bozos base .
Trump won't be negotiating the FTA. It will most likely be President Elizabeth Warren.
I would be happy if that was the case but in the here and now Trump is there and Labour need to tie Bozo to him .
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Never stopped a political attack ad before
I’d almost bet on a pre-cooked Boris/Trump “confrontation” in their bilat around the NATO summit where Boris gets to tell him “the NHS is not for sale” (again). Would barely register in the US and the quid pro quo would be something next August/September.
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .
Except it isn't true...
Your beloved Trumpton keeps saying it is
His words are on camera and US pharmaceutical companies have long pushed for changes .
Labour will use this against the Tories and so will the rest of the opposition. They need to eat into the over 65 vote who currently are Bozos base .
Trump won't be negotiating the FTA. It will most likely be President Elizabeth Warren.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
The negotiation part of labour’s policy is the easiest part, first day can we have UK wide CU please? Workers rights, environmental and consumer rights all in the WA. You think there will be wrangling more than one day? No Irish border issue at all. The second part begins the second day, confirmatory ref that type of brexit v remain at first convenient date.
I say where you have some defending the issues around Boris deal, others defending the extreme position of revoking even without a second ref, Labour’s more measured approach will appear different on the oxygen of a GE campaign, because it won’t appear like ramming a divisive brexit policy through based on that general election win,
If you step outside of a bubble where you want it to be a disaster of a policy and look at it objectively, is it really going to be so complicated to sell and defend that it’s a disaster of a GE position?
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.
You’re wasting way too much energy trying to figure out the logic behind the FPTA.
The SOLE purpose was to stop the Tories screwing the LibDems in the coalition by calling an early general election. (Eg hence the idea of a VoC stopping to clock if they patched up their differences).
It wasn’t well though out with an internally coherent logic
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
If we stay in the Customs Union it will make Brexit a lot easier to implement. There will be less economic disruption in the short run and it keeps all our existing trade deals intact. It beats me why anyone would want to leave it, but it really should appeal to Brexiters who want their project to bed in and be a success.
Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....
Not many.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
No, it will turn off Leavers who will either back the Boris Deal or Farage's No Deal and at the same time turn off Remainers who will back the LDs revoke policy instead.
So by trying to please everyone, Labour will end up pleasing nobody and its vote will collapse to its socialist core
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
The negotiation part of labour’s policy is the easiest part, first day can we have UK wide CU please? Workers rights, environmental and consumer rights all in the WA. You think there will be wrangling more than one day? No Irish border issue at all. The second part begins the second day, confirmatory ref that type of brexit v remain at first convenient date.
I say where you have some defending the issues around Boris deal, others defending the extreme position of revoking even without a second ref, Labour’s more measured approach will appear different on the oxygen of a GE campaign, because it won’t appear like ramming a divisive brexit policy through based on that general election win,
If you step outside of a bubble where you want it to be a disaster of a policy and look at it objectively, is it really going to be so complicated to sell and defend that it’s a disaster of a GE position?
A meaningless Brexit that nobody wants is not "measured".
As for it being 'complicated' yes absolutely. "We will negotiate a deal we don't want and then campaign against it" is obviously and hilariously absurd.
I am starting to wonder if labour will back the bill for the 12th. If LDs vote against, it neutralises the “only party scared of having an election” line somewhat.
Judging by your posting name I suggest you are biased towards December twelve!
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
If we stay in the Customs Union it will make Brexit a lot easier to implement. There will be less economic disruption in the short run and it keeps all our existing trade deals intact. It beats me why anyone would want to leave it, but it really should appeal to Brexiters who want their project to bed in and be a success.
Yet every Remainer proposing it actually wants to Remain and every Brexiteer is saying its a bad idea.
Should tell you something that this supposed 'success' is one that nobody wants.
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.
You’re wasting way too much energy trying to figure out the logic behind the FPTA.
The SOLE purpose was to stop the Tories screwing the LibDems in the coalition by calling an early general election. (Eg hence the idea of a VoC stopping to clock if they patched up their differences).
It wasn’t well though out with an internally coherent logic
That was the *main* purpose but removing prerogative powers in case some maniac tries to abuse them is a longstanding goal of LibDem types.
Also, the point of stopping the clock wasn't to let LD patch things up with Con, it was to negotiate a rainbow coalition *without* Con. The ability to do that was the whole point of the exercise.
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
The negotiation part of labour’s policy is the easiest part, first day can we have UK wide CU please? Workers rights, environmental and consumer rights all in the WA. You think there will be wrangling more than one day? No Irish border issue at all. The second part begins the second day, confirmatory ref that type of brexit v remain at first convenient date.
I say where you have some defending the issues around Boris deal, others defending the extreme position of revoking even without a second ref, Labour’s more measured approach will appear different on the oxygen of a GE campaign, because it won’t appear like ramming a divisive brexit policy through based on that general election win,
If you step outside of a bubble where you want it to be a disaster of a policy and look at it objectively, is it really going to be so complicated to sell and defend that it’s a disaster of a GE position?
A meaningless Brexit that nobody wants is not "measured".
As for it being 'complicated' yes absolutely. "We will negotiate a deal we don't want and then campaign against it" is obviously and hilariously absurd.
Labour's position has the benefit of being easy to understand.
It also has the downside of being hilarious. Point and laugh at Labour's Brexit position - not so good. When Mock The Week rip the piss out of it, it's not going to be going so well....
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
Maybe. But at least we didn’t vote to invade Iraq. Unlike some parties.
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
TBF having this election once the extension was secured was literally Labour policy until like last week...
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
Without an election it’s quite clear that Brexit is going through anyway, backed by a number of Labour MPs and a nod and a wink from Corbyn. At least an election beforehand gives people the chance to reject it. It may be a long shot - largely because of our ludicrous voting system for which the Libs can hardly be blamed - but it’s worth taking given the alternative.
The interesting thing about the next election is that the Tories are going to be relying on the votes of people who are not traditional Tory voters and who are not regular voters at all. Getting them to turn out on a cold, dark December night in constituencies where the local party is not necessarily that strong is going to be a challenge. If Labour has another leader it may not be one they’d meet.
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
Without an election it’s quite clear that Brexit is going through anyway, backed by a number of Labour MPs and a nod and a wink from Corbyn. At least an election beforehand gives people the chance to reject it. It may be a long shot - largely because of our ludicrous voting system for which the Libs can hardly be blamed - but it’s worth taking given the alternative.
You could blame the LibDems for going for a referendum on AV (thread required) and not holding out for an electoral system that was better, popular and good enough to win in a referendum
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
The negotiation part of labour’s policy is the easiest part, first day can we have UK wide CU please? Workers rights, environmental and consumer rights all in the WA. You think there will be wrangling more than one day? No Irish border issue at all. The second part begins the second day, confirmatory ref that type of brexit v remain at first convenient date.
I say where you have some defending the issues around Boris deal, others defending the extreme position of revoking even without a second ref, Labour’s more measured approach will appear different on the oxygen of a GE campaign, because it won’t appear like ramming a divisive brexit policy through based on that general election win,
If you step outside of a bubble where you want it to be a disaster of a policy and look at it objectively, is it really going to be so complicated to sell and defend that it’s a disaster of a GE position?
A meaningless Brexit that nobody wants is not "measured".
As for it being 'complicated' yes absolutely. "We will negotiate a deal we don't want and then campaign against it" is obviously and hilariously absurd.
Labour's position has the benefit of being easy to understand.
It also has the downside of being hilarious. Point and laugh at Labour's Brexit position - not so good. When Mock The Week rip the piss out of it, it's not going to be going so well....
Except it isn't. The referendum result was to leave, but not leave options are as good as staying. So they are going to come back with the best they can and we can choose whether we still want the coat when we've seen the cloth and the cut.
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
Without an election it’s quite clear that Brexit is going through anyway, backed by a number of Labour MPs and a nod and a wink from Corbyn. At least an election beforehand gives people the chance to reject it. It may be a long shot - largely because of our ludicrous voting system for which the Libs can hardly be blamed - but it’s worth taking given the alternative.
You could blame the LibDems for going for a referendum on AV (thread required) and not holding out for an electoral system that was better, popular and good enough to win in a referendum
Anything Clegg had backed would have sunk in a referendum in the circumstances. We should be thankful proper PR wasn’t tarnished by being lost in a vote. The LDs should have gone for STV for local government without a referendum.
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.
You’re wasting way too much energy trying to figure out the logic behind the FPTA.
The SOLE purpose was to stop the Tories screwing the LibDems in the coalition by calling an early general election. (Eg hence the idea of a VoC stopping to clock if they patched up their differences).
It wasn’t well though out with an internally coherent logic
The interesting thing about the next election is that the Tories are going to be relying on the votes of people who are not traditional Tory voters and who are not regular voters at all. Getting them to turn out on a cold, dark December night in constituencies where the local party is not necessarily that strong is going to be a challenge. If Labour has another leader it may not be one they’d meet.
Tories are going to be relying on blow-in Labour voters in places like Warwick and Leamington switching to LibDem because they'd like to Remain. There were nearly 8000 additional Labour voters in 2017. How loyal are they likely to be? Not very, in my opinion.
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.
You’re wasting way too much energy trying to figure out the logic behind the FPTA.
The SOLE purpose was to stop the Tories screwing the LibDems in the coalition by calling an early general election. (Eg hence the idea of a VoC stopping to clock if they patched up their differences).
It wasn’t well though out with an internally coherent logic
So the super-majority rule WAS Clegg's idea!
Osborne came up with most of it, according to insiders
The interesting thing about the next election is that the Tories are going to be relying on the votes of people who are not traditional Tory voters and who are not regular voters at all. Getting them to turn out on a cold, dark December night in constituencies where the local party is not necessarily that strong is going to be a challenge. If Labour has another leader it may not be one they’d meet.
Tories are going to be relying on blow-in Labour voters in places like Warwick and Leamington switching to LibDem because they'd like to Remain. There were nearly 8000 additional Labour voters in 2017. How loyal are they likely to be? Not very, in my opinion.
I'm all for a lack of loyalty for all political parties.
It would be delightful to rid politics of the tribal element, and parties of 75% of their power.
Every now and again you have to sit back in astonishment. Boris Johnson is prime minister, but doesn’t command the Commons after he lost his MPs and partner. He ploughs on in office despite it. He should have quit ages ago.
Except it isn't. The referendum result was to leave, but not leave options are as good as staying. So they are going to come back with the best they can and we can choose whether we still want the coat when we've seen the cloth and the cut.
Labour loyalists defending their Brexit position showing they have no sense of humour.....
The interesting thing about the next election is that the Tories are going to be relying on the votes of people who are not traditional Tory voters and who are not regular voters at all. Getting them to turn out on a cold, dark December night in constituencies where the local party is not necessarily that strong is going to be a challenge. If Labour has another leader it may not be one they’d meet.
Both parties are down on their 2017 vote shares. Tories by either a little bit, or a lot. Labour by either a lot, or lots and lots and lots. This suggests that both parties will be struggling to hold onto as many of their existing voters - ie voters who voted for them in 2017 - as possible, and the party that is most successful at that will win.
This presages one of the most divisive and polarising general elections of my lifetime. A pure core vote contest, rather than an appeal to new voters. Motivation to vote on a dark and wet December day will be generated by anger, fear and hate. An unedifying prospect.
Every now and again you have to sit back in astonishment. Boris Johnson is prime minister, but doesn’t command the Commons after he lost his MPs and partner. He ploughs on in office despite it. He should have quit ages ago.
But it is a commentary on how rubbish his opponents are
You cannot really make up the Lib Dems......barely 10 years after their useless Cabal couldn't wait to get into their ministerial limos.....now you have the rampant opportunism of Swinson's Yellow Peril pitching to double their seats at the price of a hard right Brexit....
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
Maybe. But at least we didn’t vote to invade Iraq. Unlike some parties.
The problem with Iraq from the Yellow Peril viewpoint is that they had nothing to gain by voting for it...but plenty to gain from voting against....
But this latest wheeze makes it seem like...perhaps if a coalition ministerial seat was on offer, or possibly a few extra constituencies, the LD's would quite happily gouge out the eyes of their own grandmother with a well rusted spoon....
From opposing tuition fees, to jumping in a coalition, from opposing Iraq to supporting bombing Assad...and now this latest opportunistic ploy...as said a bunch of useless twats who'll gain about 20 seats but at the next election (after) will be quite rightly obliterated for being nothing to anyone.....
On other matters, I do not believe Keith Vaz should be allowed to remain in Parliament. He should be recalled.
The recall process falls, if there’s a GE
He should have resigned before now. How can you have that sort of judgement passed on you and not have the decency to resign?
It’s worse than that though - he’s despicably trying to say he has a mental illness - rightly described as ludicrous.
Vaz though does hit a number of good set of identity politic memes...mental health, ethnicity, LGBT, legalisation of drugs and prostitution.....I think the LD''s could make good use of him
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
Sort of. I am saying that ideas should be promoted by people who believe in them who should seek election seeking to implement them because they think its a good idea.
People trying to implement ideas they don't believe in is a recipe for disaster.
I have said repeatedly in recent months that a GE is our system's safety valve.
It is time to go back to the people.
But, boy, Johnson is taking an enormous gamble.
He is
If he loses to Corbyn he will go down in history as the worst Tory leader of them all.
On current polling Corbyn is more likely to go down as the worst Labour leader of them all, Labour is currently polling even worse than 1983 under Foot
Motivation to vote on a dark and wet December day will be generated by anger, fear and hate. An unedifying prospect.
I'm sure the differential turnout modellers will be having the heebie jeebies at the prospect of a December election.
Pollster "Oi, spod! Build a model based on factors that haven't worked in the past, combined with circumstances that haven't happened for nearly a century! Chop chop!" Modeller "Dear CityJobs.com, please find attached my CV..."
I have just read on the guardian website that No Deal planning has cost £2 billion! That is a hell of a waste of cash. It works out at. approxiamtly £30 per person. That £2 billion could of bought a dozen or more F35 fighters for one of the aircraft carriers or paid for accomadation for the homeless or food for families who cannot make ends meet. Brexit needs to be stopped before more borrowed money is funnelled toward an option rather than an necessity....
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?
I didn’t mean “your” in literally just you.
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Labour's policy as far as I can tell is they don't want to leave but that is the bullshit they're putting up as the alternative.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Because it’s a solution that deserves consideration? Are you saying that ideas should never be considered because they are unpopular?
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
It does not deserve consideration because it cannot happen. It is as much a unicorn as any extremist Brexiteer fantasy. No Deal might be terrible but it is possible. Staying in the EU CU is not possible without remaining in the EU.
I have just read on the guardian website that No Deal planning has cost £2 billion! That is a hell of a waste of cash. It works out at. approxiamtly £30 per person. That £2 billion could of bought a dozen or more F35 fighters for one of the aircraft carriers or paid for accomadation for the homeless or food for families who cannot make ends meet. Brexit needs to be stopped before more borrowed money is funnelled toward an option rather than an necessity....
The interesting thing about the next election is that the Tories are going to be relying on the votes of people who are not traditional Tory voters and who are not regular voters at all. Getting them to turn out on a cold, dark December night in constituencies where the local party is not necessarily that strong is going to be a challenge. If Labour has another leader it may not be one they’d meet.
Tories are going to be relying on blow-in Labour voters in places like Warwick and Leamington switching to LibDem because they'd like to Remain. There were nearly 8000 additional Labour voters in 2017. How loyal are they likely to be? Not very, in my opinion.
I'm all for a lack of loyalty for all political parties.
It would be delightful to rid politics of the tribal element, and parties of 75% of their power.
But why should poor people who rely on benefits, and public services vote for a Neo-liberal, capitalist charlatan wanker who wants to turn the UK into a capitalist, Trump outpost of the US?
I get why rich bankers vote Tory....I bet not many of these are going to jump ship....
Boris's schtick is to fool the poor he is on their side....get Brexit done....
I have said repeatedly in recent months that a GE is our system's safety valve.
It is time to go back to the people.
But, boy, Johnson is taking an enormous gamble.
He is
If he loses to Corbyn he will go down in history as the worst Tory leader of them all.
On current polling Corbyn is more likely to go down as the worst Labour leader of them all, Labour is currently polling even worse than 1983 under Foot
Labour polled 22% in the 2010 GE, they then achieved a week or two later 29%.
Your predications are lol! I would be embarrased if i was disprovern as regulary as you have been lately.
Motivation to vote on a dark and wet December day will be generated by anger, fear and hate. An unedifying prospect.
I'm sure the differential turnout modellers will be having the heebie jeebies at the prospect of a December election.
Pollster "Oi, spod! Build a model based on factors that haven't worked in the past, combined with circumstances that haven't happened for nearly a century! Chop chop!" Modeller "Dear CityJobs.com, please find attached my CV..."
Any idea when the votes will be tomorrow or when we will find out whether Labour is willing to back an election or have to be dragged kicking and screaming? Are we going for all 3 readings tomorrow?
On other matters, I do not believe Keith Vaz should be allowed to remain in Parliament. He should be recalled.
The recall process falls, if there’s a GE
He should have resigned before now. How can you have that sort of judgement passed on you and not have the decency to resign?
It’s worse than that though - he’s despicably trying to say he has a mental illness - rightly described as ludicrous.
Vaz is just scum.
Indeed - he has so much in common with Johnson.
Johnson is scum to you because he has championed Brexit, got it through the referendum and when the Houe of Common is rid of the Remainer blockers, will deliver it.
Vaz is scum because the House of Commons has investigated him and proven him to be.
Comments
Will you also be calling out any possible Tory misinformation.
Labour will use this against the Tories and so will the rest of the opposition. They need to eat into the over 65 vote who currently are Bozos base .
https://order-order.com/2019/10/28/labour-candidate-booted-anti-semitism-tweets-re-selected/
We wouldn’t be in the (definite article) CU but we would negotiate a CU with the EU. Turkey has one. It’s an important difference and it is leaving properly as we will no longer be signatories to the EU treaties. Also keeps Unionists and Nationalists in NI happy in a way an FTA wouldn’t. Have you tried exporting anything to Canada? Hardly frictionless.
So far as I can tell this is Labour’s policy but TBF who can be sure these days.
Can you name any prominent Brexiteers who are promoting a CU as being the Brexit they want. Why would you put up a form of Brexit nobody wants, not even the people proposing it?
Think the deliveroo advert “no carbs before marbs”.
The people cooking that food for us, do you think they currently come in under an immigration policy. Do you think they will stop coming in under a post brexit immigration policy?
The moment someone plays football for England who came here illegally is the moment immigration is tippexed out the Oxford English Dictionary.
The second part begins the second day, confirmatory ref that type of brexit v remain at first convenient date.
I say where you have some defending the issues around Boris deal, others defending the extreme position of revoking even without a second ref, Labour’s more measured approach will appear different on the oxygen of a GE campaign, because it won’t appear like ramming a divisive brexit policy through based on that general election win,
If you step outside of a bubble where you want it to be a disaster of a policy and look at it objectively, is it really going to be so complicated to sell and defend that it’s a disaster of a GE position?
The SOLE purpose was to stop the Tories screwing the LibDems in the coalition by calling an early general election. (Eg hence the idea of a VoC stopping to clock if they patched up their differences).
It wasn’t well though out with an internally coherent logic
So by trying to please everyone, Labour will end up pleasing nobody and its vote will collapse to its socialist core
As for it being 'complicated' yes absolutely. "We will negotiate a deal we don't want and then campaign against it" is obviously and hilariously absurd.
Should tell you something that this supposed 'success' is one that nobody wants.
Also, the point of stopping the clock wasn't to let LD patch things up with Con, it was to negotiate a rainbow coalition *without* Con. The ability to do that was the whole point of the exercise.
Not sure why only prominent Brexiteers should have a say. And anyway, a prominent Brexiteer supporting it is Jeremy Corbyn.
An election on Dec 9 will be a horror show for that very joke alone!!
Maybe the party never had any integrity...but fuck me...this lot are a fucking opportunistic shower of shits.....
It also has the downside of being hilarious. Point and laugh at Labour's Brexit position - not so good. When Mock The Week rip the piss out of it, it's not going to be going so well....
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7621213/Remain-supporter-Theresa-cried-Leave-won-2016-referendum.html
It would be delightful to rid politics of the tribal element, and parties of 75% of their power.
It is time to go back to the people.
But, boy, Johnson is taking an enormous gamble.
This presages one of the most divisive and polarising general elections of my lifetime. A pure core vote contest, rather than an appeal to new voters. Motivation to vote on a dark and wet December day will be generated by anger, fear and hate. An unedifying prospect.
But this latest wheeze makes it seem like...perhaps if a coalition ministerial seat was on offer, or possibly a few extra constituencies, the LD's would quite happily gouge out the eyes of their own grandmother with a well rusted spoon....
From opposing tuition fees, to jumping in a coalition, from opposing Iraq to supporting bombing Assad...and now this latest opportunistic ploy...as said a bunch of useless twats who'll gain about 20 seats but at the next election (after) will be quite rightly obliterated for being nothing to anyone.....
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1188941400806694913
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1188941913191305217
Er, yep...
People trying to implement ideas they don't believe in is a recipe for disaster.
Modeller "Dear CityJobs.com, please find attached my CV..."
It wouldn't have passed I hear the cries say? Well many remainers thought the opposite, and Boris never even tried.
Does fit the Boris profile though - taking the easy way out.
(Is that a coat I see before me?)
I get why rich bankers vote Tory....I bet not many of these are going to jump ship....
Boris's schtick is to fool the poor he is on their side....get Brexit done....
Your predications are lol! I would be embarrased if i was disprovern as regulary as you have been lately.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1188944025321201665
Yet again, those who want Brexit have chosen to block it.
Vaz is scum because the House of Commons has investigated him and proven him to be.