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Comments
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Not sure I would be dogmatic about that. There were in 1918.TudorRose said:
Or postal votes?Sunil_Prasannan said:
There were no internet or mobiles in 1923 either!justin124 said:
The last December election was in 1923.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Also in December 1918, there were no benefits associated with t'internet, mobiles or Twitterjustin124 said:
Or half the country votes on the 10th and the other half on the 11th!AndyJS said:
Maybe they can compromise with the 10th or 11th.justin124 said:Swinson rejects the 12th December !
Until 1918 there was not a fixed date for a General Election in that polling stretched over a few weeks in different areas of the country.Also In 1945 Polling Day in Scotland was a week later than elsewhere.
Anyway, it is late and I am tired. Have a good evening.0 -
Swinson:
'The prime minister has lost another vote in parliament. This latest attempt to force his bad Brexit bill through parliament has failed because this parliament simply does not trust him.
Boris Johnson claims he wants a general election, but he also claimed he wouldn’t prorogue parliament or put a border down the Irish sea.
If Boris Johnson wants a general election, then he could have supported our bill for a general election on 9 December. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for 12 December, which we have already rejected'0 -
Nothing is set in stone. Depends on the result and if a new government had to have another election!AndyJS said:
The only downside to having an election this year is that we won't be able to look forward to one next year.nico67 said:The media and journalists will think they’ve just landed the jackpot.
After years of Brexit drama they now have an election to cover .1 -
So many even he doesn't know how many.....Peter_the_Punter said:
Ooh, sexism!!Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
What about Johnson - wouldn't he have Nativity Plays to attend too? He has more children than Swinson - quite a few more, I believe.0 -
Kirsty Blackman told Channel 4 News:
We are keen for there to be a general election before the 12th. I don’t trust Boris Johnson. I’m not convinced I trust him to follow through on any promises that he’s likely to make on this.
We may have conversations with many different people but we will not be dancing to Boris Johnson’s tune on this.
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It depends if he resigns with immediate effect (Brown, Miliband) or resigns once his successor is elected (Blair, May, Cameron, Howard, Major).sirclive said:If you believe Labour will receive a shellacking in a Dec Election, then Corbyn is 7/2 to exit as leader in 2019. Isn't it common procedure to resign the day after a drubbing? Good Value??
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I bet your Mum said "You should have held out for the gold, Sunil...."Sunil_Prasannan said:
My only acting credit to date was as one of the Three Wise Men at my primary school, I think in 1982. I was the one wot carried Myrrh.MarqueeMark said:
Well, I've heard it was cancelled. They couldn't find Three Wise Men.JackW said:
Yes. Swinson is playing Herod in a Conservative "Decapitation Strategy" scene.Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
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I think this is spot on. These oddly untargeted glossy leaflets are a factor of ( a ) the unusually large amount of money the Lib Dems have raised ( b ) the early election meaning there are no ' long campaign ' spending restrictions. Neither of which means the money is wasted just that the spending is targeting something else other than this GE.Richard_Nabavi said:On topic: The LibDems are raising a lot of money, and are very sensibly spending a lot now to raise their profile before the spending limits kick in.
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Do you think that one ever felt embarrassed that one of the other guests brought gold?Sunil_Prasannan said:
My only acting credit to date was as one of the Three Wise Men at my primary school, I think in 1982. I was the one wot carried Myrrh.MarqueeMark said:
Well, I've heard it was cancelled. They couldn't find Three Wise Men.JackW said:
Yes. Swinson is playing Herod in a Conservative "Decapitation Strategy" scene.Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
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I do feel a bit sorry for those MPs who resigned from their parties and will now likely be toast but the reality is that there’s zip chance of this Parliament agreeing to a second vote , and if by some miracle it scraped over the line who would legislate for it .
I’m afraid some MPs need a reality check .0 -
What difference does 9th and 12th make? Just stick with Thursdays for goodness' sake.justin124 said:Kirsty Blackman told Channel 4 News:
We are keen for there to be a general election before the 12th. I don’t trust Boris Johnson. I’m not convinced I trust him to follow through on any promises that he’s likely to make on this.
We may have conversations with many different people but we will not be dancing to Boris Johnson’s tune on this.0 -
It was not uncommon to dislike so called Holy days at the time. One attempt from 1647 tried to end them, but that instead people would get rest and recreation days throughout the year such as they used to have for the Holy days. The idea I presume being that they would still get their days off, but would spend them more productively.egg said:
In my view Cromwell should be regarded as the enemy of the people.kle4 said:
People like to reference Cromwell in these times, well in his time in power MPs worked in the Chamber on Christmas.MarqueeMark said:If Boris gets a majority, he's going to ram through Brexit by year end, isn't he?
MPs are going to have to be opening their Xmas presents in the Chamber.
Why, on Christmas Day in 1656 MPs discussed amendments to the Bill for the Forest of Deane, which was surely a worthy cause indeed..
Though it was noted that the House was sparsely populated due to the day. Someone wanted to move a short bill to prevent it, but others complained he had had plenty of time to provide for such a law, and it was too late to rush it now (not that it stopped it). How things change.
Did the puritans not want to ban all the Christmas fun, which to be honest isn’t Christian but merged in with prior paganism?
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/p954
But as seen from the debates on the matter on Christmas 1656, even among members of the Cromwellian parliament people were not working on the day, it was presumed in observation of the day.
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Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.0 -
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?ydoethur said:
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.rpjs said:
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.0 -
This is symptomatic of this dysfunctional parliament. The children are now squabbling about a difference of 3 days. Stupid of Boris to stick to the 12th, stupid of Swinson to reject it.justin124 said:Swinson:
'The prime minister has lost another vote in parliament. This latest attempt to force his bad Brexit bill through parliament has failed because this parliament simply does not trust him.
Boris Johnson claims he wants a general election, but he also claimed he wouldn’t prorogue parliament or put a border down the Irish sea.
If Boris Johnson wants a general election, then he could have supported our bill for a general election on 9 December. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for 12 December, which we have already rejected'2 -
There is a discussion what happens if Tories haven’t secured an election by the end of this week. At that point there’s only one person snookered. Having promised to die in a ditch on the 31st, on the 1st he will have to write home to his mum asking for a clean pair of socks.Time_to_Leave said:
Agreed. He has no power, but oddly will look to the uninterested observer like he has it all.Mysticrose said:Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
The funny thing about it is that Johnson really really won't want to lose the one-line bill. Given the number of recalcitrants floating between lobbies on both sides he needs either the LibDems or the SNP, or preferably both. That's assuming Labour don't belatedly join the feast.
So if Jo Swinson really holds out I suspect Johnson will have to yield.
Seriously, at what point do we think the Tories have no choice but to yield, have a budget, bring back the WAB, attempt to carry on governing?
They just won’t be able to keep it up into next week could they?1 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
He hasMarqueeMark said:
The earlier date gives Boris more days to get his Bill through by year end... Just concede it, Boris.JohnLilburne said:
Surely it just needs to get amended "substitute xth for 12th" and then voted on. So BoJo has put up his bill, the LDs and SNP get their amendment, honours are even. If he's pulling the WAIB I don't see what the problem is.Mysticrose said:Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
The funny thing about it is that Johnson really really won't want to lose the one-line bill. Given the number of recalcitrants floating between lobbies on both sides he needs either the LibDems or the SNP, or preferably both. That's assuming Labour don't belatedly join the feast.
So if Jo Swinson really holds out I suspect Johnson will have to yield.
He has conceded the GE should be on the 9th Dec? I don't think so.0 -
They rejected a concerted push for a soft Brexit to get a second referendum. They then rejected May's Customs Union deal to get a soft Brexit. They then rejected Boris' deal to get a Customs Union deal. Now they will lose their seats.nico67 said:I do feel a bit sorry for those MPs who resigned from their parties and will now likely be toast but the reality is that there’s zip chance of this Parliament agreeing to a second vote , and if by some miracle it scraped over the line who would legislate for it .
I’m afraid some MPs need a reality check .0 -
I feel a bit sorry for them too. I mentioned Stephen Lloyd, who took an early and principled stand - will be be allowed to restand, after having voted for Brexit?nico67 said:I do feel a bit sorry for those MPs who resigned from their parties and will now likely be toast but the reality is that there’s zip chance of this Parliament agreeing to a second vote , and if by some miracle it scraped over the line who would legislate for it .
I’m afraid some MPs need a reality check .
I don't get it - trusting Boris or not does not matter if you satisfy yourself as to what is required in the law that is intended to be passed.justin124 said:Kirsty Blackman told Channel 4 News:
We are keen for there to be a general election before the 12th. I don’t trust Boris Johnson. I’m not convinced I trust him to follow through on any promises that he’s likely to make on this.
We may have conversations with many different people but we will not be dancing to Boris Johnson’s tune on this.0 -
Ordinarily yes. And Corbyn has said he will go if they lose the election. BUT if he does, Watson gets the job as LOTO. And presumably, the power to start considering the backlog for expelling Corbyn's anti-semite little helpers.....sirclive said:If you believe Labour will receive a shellacking in a Dec Election, then Corbyn is 7/2 to exit as leader in 2019. Isn't it common procedure to resign the day after a drubbing? Good Value??
He may therefore want to stay until his annointed one is in place.1 -
Says who?AndyJS said:
The only downside to having an election this year is that we won't be able to look forward to one next year.nico67 said:The media and journalists will think they’ve just landed the jackpot.
After years of Brexit drama they now have an election to cover .
December 1923 election lead to October 1924 election...1 -
Also on the definition of "shellacking".Philip_Thompson said:
It depends if he resigns with immediate effect (Brown, Miliband) or resigns once his successor is elected (Blair, May, Cameron, Howard, Major).sirclive said:If you believe Labour will receive a shellacking in a Dec Election, then Corbyn is 7/2 to exit as leader in 2019. Isn't it common procedure to resign the day after a drubbing? Good Value??
(I cite the experience in 2017 where he clearly, er, didn't win but was seen as a conquering hero because expectations, and the fact that winning elections and actually delivering anything don't seem to be that high on Corbynistas' priorities compared to polishing the leader's halo and slagging off Blairites.)1 -
It also led to a minority Tory government followed by a minority Labour government. Just saying...GIN1138 said:
Says who?AndyJS said:
The only downside to having an election this year is that we won't be able to look forward to one next year.nico67 said:The media and journalists will think they’ve just landed the jackpot.
After years of Brexit drama they now have an election to cover .
December 1923 election lead to October 1924 election...0 -
He did invite Jews to England with a policy of religious tolerance towards us. I accept Catholics might not feel so warmly.egg said:
In my view Cromwell should be regarded as the enemy of the people.kle4 said:
People like to reference Cromwell in these times, well in his time in power MPs worked in the Chamber on Christmas.MarqueeMark said:If Boris gets a majority, he's going to ram through Brexit by year end, isn't he?
MPs are going to have to be opening their Xmas presents in the Chamber.
Why, on Christmas Day in 1656 MPs discussed amendments to the Bill for the Forest of Deane, which was surely a worthy cause indeed..
Though it was noted that the House was sparsely populated due to the day. Someone wanted to move a short bill to prevent it, but others complained he had had plenty of time to provide for such a law, and it was too late to rush it now (not that it stopped it). How things change.
Did the puritans not want to ban all the Christmas fun, which to be honest isn’t Christian but merged in with prior paganism?0 -
Elections year after year are all the rage thesedays. They've had 4 in 4 years in Spain. (Ok, ok, but not one each year, I know).GIN1138 said:
Says who?AndyJS said:
The only downside to having an election this year is that we won't be able to look forward to one next year.nico67 said:The media and journalists will think they’ve just landed the jackpot.
After years of Brexit drama they now have an election to cover .
December 1923 election lead to October 1924 election...0 -
Still, look on the bright side. We get rid of Soubry.nico67 said:I do feel a bit sorry for those MPs who resigned from their parties and will now likely be toast but the reality is that there’s zip chance of this Parliament agreeing to a second vote , and if by some miracle it scraped over the line who would legislate for it .
I’m afraid some MPs need a reality check .0 -
But myrrh is a bomb.Gabs2 said:
Do you think that one ever felt embarrassed that one of the other guests brought gold?Sunil_Prasannan said:
My only acting credit to date was as one of the Three Wise Men at my primary school, I think in 1982. I was the one wot carried Myrrh.MarqueeMark said:
Well, I've heard it was cancelled. They couldn't find Three Wise Men.JackW said:
Yes. Swinson is playing Herod in a Conservative "Decapitation Strategy" scene.Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
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If it goes on long enough I think there’s a chance that he almost manages to position himself as LotO and run as the change candidate vs. Corbyn/Swinson/Sturgeon. Not definite, but a chance.egg said:
There is a discussion what happens if Tories haven’t secured an election by the end of this week. At that point there’s only one person snookered. Having promised to die in a ditch on the 31st, on the 1st he will have to write home to his mum asking for a clean pair of socks.Time_to_Leave said:
Agreed. He has no power, but oddly will look to the uninterested observer like he has it all.Mysticrose said:Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
The funny thing about it is that Johnson really really won't want to lose the one-line bill. Given the number of recalcitrants floating between lobbies on both sides he needs either the LibDems or the SNP, or preferably both. That's assuming Labour don't belatedly join the feast.
So if Jo Swinson really holds out I suspect Johnson will have to yield.
Seriously, at what point do we think the Tories have no choice but to yield, have a budget, bring back the WAB, attempt to carry on governing?
They just won’t be able to keep it up into next week could they?0 -
Embarrassed? I bet he was incensed!Gabs2 said:
Do you think that one ever felt embarrassed that one of the other guests brought gold?Sunil_Prasannan said:
My only acting credit to date was as one of the Three Wise Men at my primary school, I think in 1982. I was the one wot carried Myrrh.MarqueeMark said:
Well, I've heard it was cancelled. They couldn't find Three Wise Men.JackW said:
Yes. Swinson is playing Herod in a Conservative "Decapitation Strategy" scene.Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
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He was certainly not the most religiously fanatic person of the time, but that may not mean much when things were religiously and politically in so much upheaval.Gabs2 said:
He did invite Jews to England with a policy of religious tolerance towards us. I accept Catholics might not feel so warmly.egg said:
In my view Cromwell should be regarded as the enemy of the people.kle4 said:
People like to reference Cromwell in these times, well in his time in power MPs worked in the Chamber on Christmas.MarqueeMark said:If Boris gets a majority, he's going to ram through Brexit by year end, isn't he?
MPs are going to have to be opening their Xmas presents in the Chamber.
Why, on Christmas Day in 1656 MPs discussed amendments to the Bill for the Forest of Deane, which was surely a worthy cause indeed..
Though it was noted that the House was sparsely populated due to the day. Someone wanted to move a short bill to prevent it, but others complained he had had plenty of time to provide for such a law, and it was too late to rush it now (not that it stopped it). How things change.
Did the puritans not want to ban all the Christmas fun, which to be honest isn’t Christian but merged in with prior paganism?0 -
As you know I’m an ardent Remainer , but it will take a miracle for Labour to win so another vote is very unlikely .MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
I’m pretty okay as long as no deal doesn’t happen . If the Tories get a majority the deal goes through , if the miracle happens I either end up with a deal or Labour softer Brexit or Remain.
The worst outcome would be a hung parliament with the DUP having influence, hopefully that doesn’t happen !1 -
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.0 -
Have your like and take it away before I find you.Benpointer said:
Embarrassed? I bet he was incensed!Gabs2 said:
Do you think that one ever felt embarrassed that one of the other guests brought gold?Sunil_Prasannan said:
My only acting credit to date was as one of the Three Wise Men at my primary school, I think in 1982. I was the one wot carried Myrrh.MarqueeMark said:
Well, I've heard it was cancelled. They couldn't find Three Wise Men.JackW said:
Yes. Swinson is playing Herod in a Conservative "Decapitation Strategy" scene.Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
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If Johnson were trusted not to try and pull a fast one during those three days the difference would be immaterial.numbertwelve said:
This is symptomatic of this dysfunctional parliament. The children are now squabbling about a difference of 3 days. Stupid of Boris to stick to the 12th, stupid of Swinson to reject it.justin124 said:Swinson:
'The prime minister has lost another vote in parliament. This latest attempt to force his bad Brexit bill through parliament has failed because this parliament simply does not trust him.
Boris Johnson claims he wants a general election, but he also claimed he wouldn’t prorogue parliament or put a border down the Irish sea.
If Boris Johnson wants a general election, then he could have supported our bill for a general election on 9 December. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for 12 December, which we have already rejected'1 -
If he hasn’t yet he will if he wants that election because he don’t have the votes for the 12th. Does heBenpointer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
He hasMarqueeMark said:
The earlier date gives Boris more days to get his Bill through by year end... Just concede it, Boris.JohnLilburne said:
Surely it just needs to get amended "substitute xth for 12th" and then voted on. So BoJo has put up his bill, the LDs and SNP get their amendment, honours are even. If he's pulling the WAIB I don't see what the problem is.Mysticrose said:Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
The funny thing about it is that Johnson really really won't want to lose the one-line bill. Given the number of recalcitrants floating between lobbies on both sides he needs either the LibDems or the SNP, or preferably both. That's assuming Labour don't belatedly join the feast.
So if Jo Swinson really holds out I suspect Johnson will have to yield.
He has conceded the GE should be on the 9th Dec? I don't think so.0 -
The LibDems will speak of little else for the next 6 weeks. It will be front and centre.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.0 -
The Lib Dems need a clean slate . It was good Norman Lamb voted against the deal . Jo Swinson in every interview now keeps referring to Labour MPs for the deal .kle4 said:
I feel a bit sorry for them too. I mentioned Stephen Lloyd, who took an early and principled stand - will be be allowed to restand, after having voted for Brexit?nico67 said:I do feel a bit sorry for those MPs who resigned from their parties and will now likely be toast but the reality is that there’s zip chance of this Parliament agreeing to a second vote , and if by some miracle it scraped over the line who would legislate for it .
I’m afraid some MPs need a reality check .
I don't get it - trusting Boris or not does not matter if you satisfy yourself as to what is required in the law that is intended to be passed.justin124 said:Kirsty Blackman told Channel 4 News:
We are keen for there to be a general election before the 12th. I don’t trust Boris Johnson. I’m not convinced I trust him to follow through on any promises that he’s likely to make on this.
We may have conversations with many different people but we will not be dancing to Boris Johnson’s tune on this.
She will go hard on this , you can’t trust Labour to not facilitate a Tory Brexit will be her message .
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No I don't think he do!egg said:
If he hasn’t yet he will if he wants that election because he don’t have the votes for the 12th. Does heBenpointer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
He hasMarqueeMark said:
The earlier date gives Boris more days to get his Bill through by year end... Just concede it, Boris.JohnLilburne said:
Surely it just needs to get amended "substitute xth for 12th" and then voted on. So BoJo has put up his bill, the LDs and SNP get their amendment, honours are even. If he's pulling the WAIB I don't see what the problem is.Mysticrose said:Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
The funny thing about it is that Johnson really really won't want to lose the one-line bill. Given the number of recalcitrants floating between lobbies on both sides he needs either the LibDems or the SNP, or preferably both. That's assuming Labour don't belatedly join the feast.
So if Jo Swinson really holds out I suspect Johnson will have to yield.
He has conceded the GE should be on the 9th Dec? I don't think so. 0 -
If it meant as you said an immediate change to the opposition then why not have a 1 day countdown?rpjs said:
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?ydoethur said:
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.rpjs said:
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.
It gives 14 days in which the government continues but if "through the usual channels" it becomes apparent an alternative government can be formed then it can be formed. How it is formed is not defined in statute.
EG hypothetically if there were a VONC now in Boris's government but then Boris said to the SNP 'give me support and I will back a second independence referendum' and hypothetically the SNP said 'you have a deal' then the SNP could give Boris confidence. No change in PM but now the government has confidence again.
Alternatively if Corbyn demonstrated he could reach a majority then "through the usual channels" Corbyn would become PM but that'd be like Cameron becoming PM in 2010 only when he had demonstrated he could get a majority in the Commons and Brown knew he couldn't.
"The usual channels" aren't defined in statute.0 -
The brochure in the header suggests otherwise.PaulM said:
The LibDems will speak of little else for the next 6 weeks. It will be front and centre.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.0 -
But it's been front and centre for months and most people still find it a big yawn. A group of work colleagues were telling me the other day how they never watch the news because it's all about Brexit.PaulM said:
The LibDems will speak of little else for the next 6 weeks. It will be front and centre.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.0 -
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?0 -
And yet I bet they will be amongst the first to complain about its consequences, whatever they may be.anothernick said:
But it's been front and centre for months and most people still find it a big yawn. A group of work colleagues were telling me the other day how they never watch the news because it's all about Brexit.PaulM said:
The LibDems will speak of little else for the next 6 weeks. It will be front and centre.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.0 -
Indeed - but that later comment was not there at the time!Barnesian said:
It says:justin124 said:
Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”
7:32 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
but look at 20.03.
Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to
@Channel4News
: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.
7:54 PM · Oct 28, 2019·TweetDeck
Let's see what happens before jumping to conclusions. There is his original plan for Dec 12th (FTPA) and his new plan for Dec 12th (one-liner). The original plan has been rejected. The new plan is being closely examined as we speak.-1 -
50 shades of nuts brexit more likeAlistair said:
Yes.Benpointer said:If Boris stands on an election pledge to implement his Deal will that leave room for the Brexit Party to push their 'Clean Brexit' line?
0 -
Because it is not a position it is a contingent position and by design will be strung out for months.egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?0 -
Although, ironically, a nationwide swing from Labour to LibDem would facilitate a Tory Brexit more conclusively than anything Johnson, or even Cummings, could dream up by themselves.nico67 said:
The Lib Dems need a clean slate . It was good Norman Lamb voted against the deal . Jo Swinson in every interview now keeps referring to Labour MPs for the deal .kle4 said:
I feel a bit sorry for them too. I mentioned Stephen Lloyd, who took an early and principled stand - will be be allowed to restand, after having voted for Brexit?nico67 said:I do feel a bit sorry for those MPs who resigned from their parties and will now likely be toast but the reality is that there’s zip chance of this Parliament agreeing to a second vote , and if by some miracle it scraped over the line who would legislate for it .
I’m afraid some MPs need a reality check .
I don't get it - trusting Boris or not does not matter if you satisfy yourself as to what is required in the law that is intended to be passed.justin124 said:Kirsty Blackman told Channel 4 News:
We are keen for there to be a general election before the 12th. I don’t trust Boris Johnson. I’m not convinced I trust him to follow through on any promises that he’s likely to make on this.
We may have conversations with many different people but we will not be dancing to Boris Johnson’s tune on this.
She will go hard on this , you can’t trust Labour to not facilitate a Tory Brexit will be her message .0 -
Michael Foot did not immediately resign in 1983 - neither did John Major in 1997.sirclive said:If you believe Labour will receive a shellacking in a Dec Election, then Corbyn is 7/2 to exit as leader in 2019. Isn't it common procedure to resign the day after a drubbing? Good Value??
0 -
You, er, you looking to buy a bridge over the Thames?egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?0 -
Is there any chance we can simply bin this kind of futile (dare I say 'infantile') discussion during the campaign and stick to debating interesting facts?justin124 said:
Indeed - but that later comment was not there at the time!Barnesian said:
It says:justin124 said:
Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”
7:32 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
but look at 20.03.
Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to
@Channel4News
: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.
7:54 PM · Oct 28, 2019·TweetDeck
Let's see what happens before jumping to conclusions. There is his original plan for Dec 12th (FTPA) and his new plan for Dec 12th (one-liner). The original plan has been rejected. The new plan is being closely examined as we speak.
This place is so much better than other sites and a lot of that is by avoiding too much partisanship, and not always insisting on getting one's own way. You've both got a point. Can we move on?2 -
I am starting to wonder if labour will back the bill for the 12th. If LDs vote against, it neutralises the “only party scared of having an election” line somewhat.0
-
CU Brexit is pointless. Can you name any prominent leavers who back that? Why would that even be a proposal?egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?0 -
Picture the general election campaign, day after day, news channel after news channel explaining the difference in reassuring tones, revoke without second ref, CU brexit v remain confirmatory ref, Boris deal (DUP under bus etc). With Farage attacking surrenders of Boris deal with no deal only true brexit.TOPPING said:
Because it is not a position it is a contingent position and by design will be strung out for months.egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
Remember the next general election result isn’t decided yet, 2017 and 2015 both decided during the campaigns, by the campaigns.0 -
+1rpjs said:
So what is the point of the provision that the countdown can be stopped if a VOC is passed?ydoethur said:
No it wasn’t. The convention was that there would be an election, DURING WHICH THE INCUMBENT PRIME MINISTER STAYED IN PLACE. There has been one occasion since the war when that was needed -1979. I think you will find James Callaghan was still PM until after the election.rpjs said:
Please show me the statute or convention that says "The PM remains in office until that time". The convention before the FTPA was that the administration would resign on losing a VONC.
The rest of your post is wishful thinking, aka complete rubbish. Do you honestly think the Queen would summon an alternative candidate unless it was clear as result of a vote that they could command a majority? A motion could be put down as an indication, before the formal vote later.
If the FTPA is to be read that a VONC automatically triggers a dissolution fourteen days later, which is what you appear to be saying, why does it contain a provision about a VOC cancelling the countdown?
A VOC can only apply to the government in office, whether that government is two years or two days old. it cannot apply to some proposed future government that has not actually been commissioned by the monarch.0 -
😆Alistair said:This looks like some kind of letter to me. Can anyone confirm if this is a letter?
https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1188867753173749760?s=190 -
Picture the general election campaign, day after day, news channel after news channel explaining the difference in reassuring tones, revoke without second ref, CU brexit v remain confirmatory ref, Boris deal (DUP under bus etc). With Farage attacking surrenders of Boris deal with no deal only true brexit.MarqueeMark said:
You, er, you looking to buy a bridge over the Thames?egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
Remember the next general election result isn’t decided yet, 2017 and 2015 both decided during the campaigns, by the campaigns.0 -
Could the LDs bring an amendment moving the date to the 9th ?
There's a parlour game going on over the date clearly, but it's a sensible(ish) game unlike Labour's preposterous stance.0 -
I am glad he’s not going to die and will still be alive next week.Anabobazina said:
😆Alistair said:This looks like some kind of letter to me. Can anyone confirm if this is a letter?
https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1188867753173749760?s=190 -
Incidentally the House is going to have an "official" impeacent investigation vote.
As my man the McMullamyster points out the political mathematics has inverted.
https://twitter.com/EvanMcMullin/status/1188918944750546945?s=190 -
You do know he was a freemasonkle4 said:
He was certainly not the most religiously fanatic person of the time, but that may not mean much when things were religiously and politically in so much upheaval.Gabs2 said:
He did invite Jews to England with a policy of religious tolerance towards us. I accept Catholics might not feel so warmly.egg said:
In my view Cromwell should be regarded as the enemy of the people.kle4 said:
People like to reference Cromwell in these times, well in his time in power MPs worked in the Chamber on Christmas.MarqueeMark said:If Boris gets a majority, he's going to ram through Brexit by year end, isn't he?
MPs are going to have to be opening their Xmas presents in the Chamber.
Why, on Christmas Day in 1656 MPs discussed amendments to the Bill for the Forest of Deane, which was surely a worthy cause indeed..
Though it was noted that the House was sparsely populated due to the day. Someone wanted to move a short bill to prevent it, but others complained he had had plenty of time to provide for such a law, and it was too late to rush it now (not that it stopped it). How things change.
Did the puritans not want to ban all the Christmas fun, which to be honest isn’t Christian but merged in with prior paganism?0 -
Yeah the game is make Boris a constant loser. Acquiesce to nothing. Make Boris appear powerless, look for votes to leak to authoritarian winner Farage.Pulpstar said:Could the LDs bring an amendment moving the date to the 9th ?
There's a parlour game going on over the date clearly, but it's a sensible(ish) game unlike Labour's preposterous stance.0 -
The leaflets, mostly, ARE targeted to second and third priority seats - which, together with the first priority group, account for about 40% of seats.. The decision about where to allocate real resources during the election will be based on the effectiveness of the trial campaign that's come through Mike's door.Yellow_Submarine said:
I think this is spot on. These oddly untargeted glossy leaflets are a factor of ( a ) the unusually large amount of money the Lib Dems have raised ( b ) the early election meaning there are no ' long campaign ' spending restrictions.Richard_Nabavi said:On topic: The LibDems are raising a lot of money, and are very sensibly spending a lot now to raise their profile before the spending limits kick in.
0 -
I meant the WAIB - sorry cross purposesBenpointer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
He hasMarqueeMark said:
The earlier date gives Boris more days to get his Bill through by year end... Just concede it, Boris.JohnLilburne said:
Surely it just needs to get amended "substitute xth for 12th" and then voted on. So BoJo has put up his bill, the LDs and SNP get their amendment, honours are even. If he's pulling the WAIB I don't see what the problem is.Mysticrose said:Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
The funny thing about it is that Johnson really really won't want to lose the one-line bill. Given the number of recalcitrants floating between lobbies on both sides he needs either the LibDems or the SNP, or preferably both. That's assuming Labour don't belatedly join the feast.
So if Jo Swinson really holds out I suspect Johnson will have to yield.
He has conceded the GE should be on the 9th Dec? I don't think so.0 -
I’m surprised no-one has floated the option of an election on Friday 27 December, might as well go for the burn!Yorkcity said:
Yes , it will be a nasty , vindictive few weeks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not quite Justinjustin124 said:Swinson rejects the 12th December !
She said that without knowing the WAIB has been withdrawn and did say she would look at the detail
It is going to be a GE between the 9th and 12th December and I suggest you brace yourself for it to be honest0 -
As I in hoary winter’s night stood shivering in the snow,kle4 said:
It was not uncommon to dislike so called Holy days at the time. One attempt from 1647 tried to end them, but that instead people would get rest and recreation days throughout the year such as they used to have for the Holy days. The idea I presume being that they would still get their days off, but would spend them more productively.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/acts-ordinances-interregnum/p954
But as seen from the debates on the matter on Christmas 1656, even among members of the Cromwellian parliament people were not working on the day, it was presumed in observation of the day.
Surpris’d I was with sudden heat which made my heart to glow;
And lifting up a fearful eye to view what fire was near,
A pretty Babe all burning bright did in the air appear;
Who, scorched with excessive heat, such floods of tears did shed
As though his floods should quench his flames which with his tears were fed.
“Alas!” quoth he, “but newly born, in fiery heats I fry,
Yet none approach to warm their hearts or feel my fire but I!
My faultless breast the furnace is, the fuel wounding thorns,
Love is the fire, and sighs the smoke, the ashes shame and scorns;
The fuel Justice layeth on, and Mercy blows the coals,
The metal in this furnace wrought are men’s defiled souls,
For which, as now on fire I am to work them to their good,
So will I melt into a bath to wash them in my blood.”
With this he vanish’d out of sight and swiftly shrunk away,
And straight I called unto mind that it was Christmas day.
That's Southwell a couple of generations pre-Cromwell. Note that the guy is a priest but makes it through till after dark on Christmas day without realising that it *is* Christmas day, and then only after being given a weapons grade clue about it. So less of a deal then than now.
0 -
It was all in the same interview - I watched it livejustin124 said:
Indeed - but that later comment was not there at the time!Barnesian said:
It says:justin124 said:
Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”
7:32 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
but look at 20.03.
Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to
@Channel4News
: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.
7:54 PM · Oct 28, 2019·TweetDeck
Let's see what happens before jumping to conclusions. There is his original plan for Dec 12th (FTPA) and his new plan for Dec 12th (one-liner). The original plan has been rejected. The new plan is being closely examined as we speak.0 -
I was just musing over the last four years. We’ve invented (and reinvented) precedents haven’t we? It’s so easy to not notice when you’re living through history.0
-
Sell turnout for that one lolAnabobazina said:
I’m surprised no-one has floated the option of an election on Friday 27 December, might as well go for the burn!Yorkcity said:
Yes , it will be a nasty , vindictive few weeks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not quite Justinjustin124 said:Swinson rejects the 12th December !
She said that without knowing the WAIB has been withdrawn and did say she would look at the detail
It is going to be a GE between the 9th and 12th December and I suggest you brace yourself for it to be honest0 -
One of the more important documents he’ll ever sign in his political life, and for some reason he completely forgot to mention itAnabobazina said:
😆Alistair said:This looks like some kind of letter to me. Can anyone confirm if this is a letter?
https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1188867753173749760?s=190 -
There are however a surfeit of donkeysJackW said:
Titter .... or a virgin !!!!!!!!!MarqueeMark said:
Well, I've heard it was cancelled. They couldn't find Three Wise Men.JackW said:
Yes. Swinson is playing Herod in a Conservative "Decapitation Strategy" scene.Time_to_Leave said:Is Swinson expected at a Nativity Play on the 12th or something?
0 -
With respect, we were not in dispute at all.It is simply a matter of various newsblogs being updated and one item of news being superseded by another!Mysticrose said:
Is there any chance we can simply bin this kind of futile (dare I say 'infantile') discussion during the campaign and stick to debating interesting facts?justin124 said:
Indeed - but that later comment was not there at the time!Barnesian said:
It says:justin124 said:
Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”
7:32 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
but look at 20.03.
Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to
@Channel4News
: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.
7:54 PM · Oct 28, 2019·TweetDeck
Let's see what happens before jumping to conclusions. There is his original plan for Dec 12th (FTPA) and his new plan for Dec 12th (one-liner). The original plan has been rejected. The new plan is being closely examined as we speak.
This place is so much better than other sites and a lot of that is by avoiding too much partisanship, and not always insisting on getting one's own way. You've both got a point. Can we move on?-1 -
I’m more offended by the idea of an election on a Monday than one at Christmas, reducing the chance that I’ll have to see the same play for the fifth year running is a bonus for me.
But an election on a Monday? Yuk. Election night is for getting the drinks in and staying up late. It’s rightly on Thirsty Thursday.0 -
Yebbut....in the Christmas season, every day is a thirsty day.Anabobazina said:I’m more offended by the idea of an election on a Monday than one at Christmas, reducing the chance that I’ll have to see the same play for the fifth year running is a bonus for me.
But an election on a Monday? Yuk. Election night is for getting the drinks in and staying up late. It’s rightly on Thirsty Thursday.
With added pies.0 -
I am not seeking to contradict you at all - but was simply reporting what was available on the BBC blog at the time! Frankly the more sources of information the better.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was all in the same interview - I watched it livejustin124 said:
Indeed - but that later comment was not there at the time!Barnesian said:
It says:justin124 said:
Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”
7:32 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
but look at 20.03.
Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to
@Channel4News
: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.
7:54 PM · Oct 28, 2019·TweetDeck
Let's see what happens before jumping to conclusions. There is his original plan for Dec 12th (FTPA) and his new plan for Dec 12th (one-liner). The original plan has been rejected. The new plan is being closely examined as we speak.0 -
So you're backing "Brexit Bozza" on the election rather than "Tory Swinson"Anabobazina said:I’m more offended by the idea of an election on a Monday than one at Christmas, reducing the chance that I’ll have to see the same play for the fifth year running is a bonus for me.
But an election on a Monday? Yuk. Election night is for getting the drinks in and staying up late. It’s rightly on Thirsty Thursday. ? 0 -
It will certainly see my local Tesco sell £30 more on a Monday, but reduce my productivity at work on Tuesday. You can draw you own conclusions which one outweighs the other......Anabobazina said:I’m more offended by the idea of an election on a Monday than one at Christmas, reducing the chance that I’ll have to see the same play for the fifth year running is a bonus for me.
But an election on a Monday? Yuk. Election night is for getting the drinks in and staying up late. It’s rightly on Thirsty Thursday.0 -
I think they should amend it with V@16 and permanent CU backstop or something then vote for it, if these are possiblenumbertwelve said:I am starting to wonder if labour will back the bill for the 12th. If LDs vote against, it neutralises the “only party scared of having an election” line somewhat.
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Not when it is part of an interviewjustin124 said:
I am not seeking to contradict you at all - but was simply reporting what was available on the BBC blog at the time! Frankly the more sources of information the better.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was all in the same interview - I watched it livejustin124 said:
Indeed - but that later comment was not there at the time!Barnesian said:
It says:justin124 said:
Nicholas Watt
@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”
7:32 PM · Oct 28, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
but look at 20.03.
Nick Eardley
@nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to
@Channel4News
: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.
7:54 PM · Oct 28, 2019·TweetDeck
Let's see what happens before jumping to conclusions. There is his original plan for Dec 12th (FTPA) and his new plan for Dec 12th (one-liner). The original plan has been rejected. The new plan is being closely examined as we speak.
0 -
I’ve not been around much so I don’t know whether this Northern Ireland polling has been linked to, but this is well worth a listen:
https://twitter.com/u105radio/status/1188809650747117568?s=210 -
Lol. There is always Dec 31 for those planning a quiet night in with Dimbleby.Pulpstar said:
Sell turnout for that one lolAnabobazina said:
I’m surprised no-one has floated the option of an election on Friday 27 December, might as well go for the burn!Yorkcity said:
Yes , it will be a nasty , vindictive few weeks.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not quite Justinjustin124 said:Swinson rejects the 12th December !
She said that without knowing the WAIB has been withdrawn and did say she would look at the detail
It is going to be a GE between the 9th and 12th December and I suggest you brace yourself for it to be honest0 -
Technically I dare say 24 December could be a goer, make sure those pesky students are safely back home in Surrey0
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Bedford does have a LibDem Mayor, which is surely the explanation.0
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In a CU but out of the Single Market sorts your immigration issues out. Once that is done I doubt very many Joe Publics give a monkeys about who negotiates your FTAs.Philip_Thompson said:
CU Brexit is pointless. Can you name any prominent leavers who back that? Why would that even be a proposal?egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?0 -
I think a lot of them would like (a) a bit of respite, a breather, and (b) to talk about something else, even the ones who are most enthused by Brexit.nico67 said:The media and journalists will think they’ve just landed the jackpot.
After years of Brexit drama they now have an election to cover .
Not sure they'll be much more keen for an Xmas election than most of Joe Public, but, needs must.0 -
On other matters, I do not believe Keith Vaz should be allowed to remain in Parliament. He should be recalled.2
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December 26th is a Thursday.
Just saying.....0 -
Have we done the 50p pieces?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-28/u-k-to-destroy-commemorative-50p-coins-in-brexit-meltdown0 -
Will Labour let him stand again in December?justin124 said:On other matters, I do not believe Keith Vaz should be allowed to remain in Parliament. He should be recalled.
0 -
I'm no following any of the above and ve got other things to do, so I'll assume there will be a PV tomorrow followed by a December election. If I'm wrong,vplease say so in the comments below0
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No elections on Bank Holidays.MarqueeMark said:December 26th is a Thursday.
Just saying.....0 -
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I don't give a rats ass about immigration.DougSeal said:
In a CU but out of the Single Market sorts your immigration issues out. Once that is done I doubt very many Joe Publics give a monkeys about who negotiates your FTAs.Philip_Thompson said:
CU Brexit is pointless. Can you name any prominent leavers who back that? Why would that even be a proposal?egg said:
Labour’s brexit policy is to do the easiest brexit deal and negotiation in the world, offer EU all UK in CU, and then put that to the people in a CU deal v remain ref.MarqueeMark said:
Nope. This will be front, back and centre a Brexit election. Partly because the other parties know Labour has no answer and will pour salt into that wound.Benpointer said:
Not many.MarqueeMark said:
How many of the public are going to say "You know, I think what the public REALLY want is a LOT more dicking around on the deal with the EU, and then have the Govt. say "We have negotiated a really shit deal: please vote it down in a Referendum that we will hold sometime in the summer, so that you can get real comfortable with just how shit a deal it was. Oh, and in the meantime, the SNP will get their referendum to break up the United Kingdom." Yep, that has to be real easy sell.....nico67 said:
Agreed. Things could go horribly wrong in the election if the public decide the best way to finish this is either with Johnson’s deal or the Lib Dem revoke policy .numbertwelve said:Labour are falling apart in front of our eyes. If Jezza has a successful election I will be tremendously impressed to be honest, it will show him to be one of the greatest political campaigners of our age. Because right now Labours position looks abysmal.
But people won't be voting Labour with Brexit in mind and, despite our PB fascination with it, I suspect that for a large chunk of the population Brexit is a secondary consideration.
That compromise position between the extremes of revoke and Boris flawed deal will surely play well in a general election campaign? Why can’t Tories and Libdems both in hoc and on here see that?
Now who is calling for out of SM but in the CU exactly? Besides Remainers trying to foist nonsense on us, can you name anyone who actually thinks this is better than either Remaining or Leaving properly?0 -
SNP pipe up it isn't a Bank Holiday in Scotland. Everything has to revolve around London, eh?justin124 said:
No elections on Bank Holidays.MarqueeMark said:December 26th is a Thursday.
Just saying.....0 -
Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .0 -
Except it isn't true...nico67 said:Labour really need to go hard on the NHS up for sale under the Tories .
They really need to close the gap in the over 65 vote . Its a shame you can’t use foreign leaders in ads but Trump saying its going to be part of any trade deal and connecting him with Bozo would certainly I think have an impact .0 -
On this one point, I do actually back him!Pulpstar said:
So you're backing "Brexit Bozza" on the election rather than "Tory Swinson"Anabobazina said:I’m more offended by the idea of an election on a Monday than one at Christmas, reducing the chance that I’ll have to see the same play for the fifth year running is a bonus for me.
But an election on a Monday? Yuk. Election night is for getting the drinks in and staying up late. It’s rightly on Thirsty Thursday. ?0 -
The other thing about a Christmas election is just think how many "advent calendar" memes/jokes/schticks we're going to get from the broadcasters.
"What's behind the door to the 5th? It's Jezza, and a nationalised railway!"0 -
Clearly no concern about the deficit, they could have sold those on e-bay.Alistair said:Have we done the 50p pieces?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-28/u-k-to-destroy-commemorative-50p-coins-in-brexit-meltdown0
