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FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

MaxPB said:

SouthamObserver said:

Greetings from Japan, comrades. What a time to be here. Absolutely unbelievable. We’re in an Irish pub currently full of Japanese who have totally ignored the game, except for wondering why three English blokes are hugging each other and almost in tears. What a game, what a performance. I don’t think an England side has ever played better. Just magnificent!!!!

You going to the final?

No, here for work. Flying home Thursday.

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

Fair play - Chwarae teg

Gardenwalker said:

SouthamObserver said:

Greetings from Japan, comrades. What a time to be here. Absolutely unbelievable. We’re in an Irish pub currently full of Japanese who have totally ignored the game, except for wondering why three English blokes are hugging each other and almost in tears. What a game, what a performance. I don’t think an England side has ever played better. Just magnificent!!!!

I do believe this has been the best World Cup ever so far...Japan is an amazing host.

It’s great, but reports of Japanese conversion to rugby are greatly exaggerated, I think.

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

It’s better to be beaten by the better side on the day, than to lose a scrappy match you know you should really have won.

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched. England could and probably should have won by 25-30 points.

I didn't have Sky at the time so didn't see it, but I seem to remember their win in New Zealand when they held out with two players in the sin bin:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/jun/15/rugbyunion.newzealandrugbyunionteam

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

Fair play - Chwarae teg

I will be loudly supporting your boys tomorrow, Big G.

Nigelb said:

kle4 said:

Mann's vote would have been critical. All starting to fall to bits reallyy.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1187798488165355521?s=20

Sadly Mr Meeks' response in pretty accurate - the lack of care for anything but Brexit, no matter the cost to other issues, is one of the reasons I turned away from it, and is causing a lot of damage.

I was struck by one of our resident brexiteer’s remark yesterday ( @SunnyJim ?) that May’s deal would now pass with a large majority. What do people think ?

Absolutely not! May's deal would be humiliated, it'd struggle to reach three-digits voting for it now. Who would back it?

The Tories 288 would almost all reject it now with Boris's Better Deal a better alternative to May's Crap Deal, the Tory whip would be against it and even those who were loyal to May's whip who still have the Tory whip would almost all be loyal to Boris's deal.

The unwhipped former Tories include a number who reject any Brexit like Grieve and co.

The SNP/LDs/PC/DUP would all be against.

Labour there may be a few like Kinnock to back it now but given it has zero chance of passing why would they break the whip even.

If for some reason it came back I'd expect it to be rejected something like 60 - 520

SouthamObserver said:

Gardenwalker said:

SouthamObserver said:

Greetings from Japan, comrades. What a time to be here. Absolutely unbelievable. We’re in an Irish pub currently full of Japanese who have totally ignored the game, except for wondering why three English blokes are hugging each other and almost in tears. What a game, what a performance. I don’t think an England side has ever played better. Just magnificent!!!!

I do believe this has been the best World Cup ever so far...Japan is an amazing host.

It’s great, but reports of Japanese conversion to rugby are greatly exaggerated, I think.

Rugby World Cup organisers said Japan's win over Scotland in the last of the pool games last Sunday at Yokohama attracted 53.7% peak audience share for the host broadcaster, representing a 54.8 million audience. That was bigger than the TV audience for soccer's 2002 World Cup final in Yokohama on NHK.

It was even bigger for the quarter final.

Nigelb said:

Couldn’t believe the number of (NZ) forward passes the world’s best referee appeared to miss. Genuinely surprising.

Nigel Owens.

Nigelb said:

tlg86 said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Noooooooooo

Damn TMO, that’s twice now.

It's not going to matter. England are utterly bossing this game.

Have you learned nothing from the cricket ?

The one where New Zealand were robbed of the World Cup.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

HYUFD said:

Conservative majority of 142 with Yougov today according to Electoral Calculus

Conservatives 396
Labour 164
SNP 34
LDs 33
Plaid 3
Greens 2
BXP 0

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=37&LAB=23&LIB=18&Brexit=12&Green=6&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base

LOL, what bollox, there is no chance SNP will end up with less seats.

malcolmg said:

HYUFD said:

Conservative majority of 142 with Yougov today according to Electoral Calculus

Conservatives 396
Labour 164
SNP 34
LDs 33
Plaid 3
Greens 2
BXP 0

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=37&LAB=23&LIB=18&Brexit=12&Green=6&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base

LOL, what bollox, there is no chance SNP will end up with less seats.

It’s FEWER seats, you turnip!

MaxPB said:

Nigelb said:

Couldn’t believe the number of (NZ) forward passes the world’s best referee appeared to miss. Genuinely surprising.

Nigel Owens.

It was dismal by Owens. He missed an absolutely massive one towards the end which could have been critical. In many ways he was lucky England won.

BBC front page: Arlene Foster to reaffirm DUP opposition to Brexit.

Big news, I thought. But no, the actual story is about their oppsition to the Brexit deal.

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1188034389378289664

Oh Dear

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1188034389378289664

Oh Dear

malcolmg said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1188034389378289664

Oh Dear

That's right. We've pissed off our European neighbours. Now let's upset the rest of the world.

Does this put ben stokea for SPOTY in doubt?

FrancisUrquhart said:

SouthamObserver said:

Gardenwalker said:

SouthamObserver said:

Greetings from Japan, comrades. What a time to be here. Absolutely unbelievable. We’re in an Irish pub currently full of Japanese who have totally ignored the game, except for wondering why three English blokes are hugging each other and almost in tears. What a game, what a performance. I don’t think an England side has ever played better. Just magnificent!!!!

I do believe this has been the best World Cup ever so far...Japan is an amazing host.

It’s great, but reports of Japanese conversion to rugby are greatly exaggerated, I think.

Rugby World Cup organisers said Japan's win over Scotland in the last of the pool games last Sunday at Yokohama attracted 53.7% peak audience share for the host broadcaster, representing a 54.8 million audience. That was bigger than the TV audience for soccer's 2002 World Cup final in Yokohama on NHK.

It was even bigger for the quarter final.

All desperate to see Scotland

malcolmg said:

HYUFD said:

Conservative majority of 142 with Yougov today according to Electoral Calculus

Conservatives 396
Labour 164
SNP 34
LDs 33
Plaid 3
Greens 2
BXP 0

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=37&LAB=23&LIB=18&Brexit=12&Green=6&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base

LOL, what bollox, there is no chance SNP will end up with less seats.

Of course they wont. I am not sure Boris will achieve a majority but any idea the SNP will lose seats is just as daft as 142 majority

AlastairMeeks said:

Sandpit said:

SunnyJim said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

+1

If MPs collectively want to restore some sanity to politics, they’ll choose a mild-mannered and impartial umpire in Lindsay Hoyle.

My worry is that, if they don’t, we’ll quickly go down the American route of having partisan Speakers and Judges.

The Speaker is not there to be impartial. He is there to speak for the interests of Parliament. John Bercow evidently has the support of MPs in his stances - unsurprisingly so when the executive is clueless, authoritarian and lacking any mandate for its approach.

A supine Speaker who rolls over before the government is exactly not what is required just now.

So if the government had a majority then you're saying he should act in favour of the majority, since they make up "Parliament". No, you just support his stance because you're both on the same side.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

Fair play - Chwarae teg

I will be loudly supporting your boys tomorrow, Big G.

Diolch yn fawr

We'll have none of that smut on here, thank you very much!

Mr. Jonathan, that'd be an interesting quirk.

If Wales reach the final, then only sides that voted to leave the EU would be in the final.

Mr. Meeks, the Speaker is meant to be for Parliament, as you say, but if half the House of Commons likes him and the other half does not, that does not speak of someone who is fair and even. He's partisan. And the umpire should not be biased for one side or the other.

Convention means exactly what he wants it to mean.

TudorRose said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

Fair play - Chwarae teg

I will be loudly supporting your boys tomorrow, Big G.

Diolch yn fawr

We'll have none of that smut on here, thank you very much!

Do you even know what it means !!!!!!

kle4 said:

Sandpit said:

malcolmg said:

HYUFD said:

Conservative majority of 142 with Yougov today according to Electoral Calculus

Conservatives 396
Labour 164
SNP 34
LDs 33
Plaid 3
Greens 2
BXP 0

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=37&LAB=23&LIB=18&Brexit=12&Green=6&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base

LOL, what bollox, there is no chance SNP will end up with less seats.

It’s FEWER seats, you turnip!

It doesn't make any different in this context, therefore it is meaningless to complain about fewer/less, you turnip

I think SNP will get less than 50

Jonathan said:

Amazing if Wales lose tomorrow and England win, England would win the World Cup by defeating all Southern Hemisphere teams and without facing a single Six Nations side.

That would really be something and highly unlikely to happen again, make it ultra special.

MaxPB said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sandpit said:

SunnyJim said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

+1

If MPs collectively want to restore some sanity to politics, they’ll choose a mild-mannered and impartial umpire in Lindsay Hoyle.

My worry is that, if they don’t, we’ll quickly go down the American route of having partisan Speakers and Judges.

The Speaker is not there to be impartial. He is there to speak for the interests of Parliament. John Bercow evidently has the support of MPs in his stances - unsurprisingly so when the executive is clueless, authoritarian and lacking any mandate for its approach.

A supine Speaker who rolls over before the government is exactly not what is required just now.

So if the government had a majority then you're saying he should act in favour of the majority, since they make up "Parliament". No, you just support his stance because you're both on the same side.

The usual nonsense from pb’s village idiot. The Speaker is there to look after Parliament’s interests. The screaming ab dabs are coming from those who want the executive to be allowed to steamroller Parliament. He was just as awkward for Theresa May (and the death cult supported his efforts then) and David Cameron moaned about how he tripped him up too. He appears sincerely to believe in letting Parliament hold the government to account. Good.

malcolmg said:

Bercow has been a great speaker, dragged it out of the 18th century and been entertaining.

We will have to agree to disagree.

I do hope that if the Tories are returned with a majority after the next GE that Brecow hasn't poisoned the well to the extent that it is seen by the winners as legitimate to install a speaker deliberately chosen to 'queer the pitch'.

I'd like to see decency return to a parliament that has become a international laughing stock.

Wulfrun_Phil said:

Why the prediction of a Lab hold in Bassetlaw?

Leave got 68.3% there in 2016.

Mann was standing as a Leave supporting MP. The new candidate will be a supporter of Remain, standing in support of a party that is doing everything it can to frustrate Brexit.

Labour will select a Corbyn loyalist, with Mann having already tweeted that the selection is a stitch up.

The thread references Peterborough, but the Conservatives' polling is at twice its level at that time, while that of the Brexit Party has halved.

Everything points to a Conservative gain IMO.

This seat will be a real test of how Jezza plays on the doorsteps of North Midlands seats.

I've read that Tory strategists are surprised by how well Johnson is polling with blue collar workers in the North/Midlands. May be a false rumour, but fits a general feeling.

I can see it being very very tight.

TudorRose said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TudorRose said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

Fair play - Chwarae teg

I will be loudly supporting your boys tomorrow, Big G.

Diolch yn fawr

We'll have none of that smut on here, thank you very much!

Do you even know what it means !!!!!!

No idea, but it sounds dodgy....

It would be good if British people knew just a smattering of Welsh and Gaelic. They are languages native to these isles, after all.

nunuone said:

kle4 said:

Sandpit said:

malcolmg said:

HYUFD said:

Conservative majority of 142 with Yougov today according to Electoral Calculus

Conservatives 396
Labour 164
SNP 34
LDs 33
Plaid 3
Greens 2
BXP 0

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=37&LAB=23&LIB=18&Brexit=12&Green=6&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base

LOL, what bollox, there is no chance SNP will end up with less seats.

It’s FEWER seats, you turnip!

It doesn't make any different in this context, therefore it is meaningless to complain about fewer/less, you turnip

I think SNP will get less than 50

very possible and still a big jump from 35, they would take that now I bet.

SunnyJim said:

malcolmg said:

Bercow has been a great speaker, dragged it out of the 18th century and been entertaining.

We will have to agree to disagree.

I do hope that if the Tories are returned with a majority after the next GE that Brecow hasn't poisoned the well to the extent that it is seen by the winners as legitimate to install a speaker deliberately chosen to 'queer the pitch'.

I'd like to see decency return to a parliament that has become a international laughing stock.

I doubt we will see that again, few honourable people in politics nowadays, spivs, chavs and con artists are de rigeur. Makes lawyers and estate agents look like honourable professions.

It feels like momentum is drifting away from Boris and/or his Deal.

Mr. Meeks, if the Speaker's consistently opposing one side of the House that isn't an argument in favour of his alleged objectivity.

SunnyJim said:

rottenborough said:

I've read that Tory strategists are surprised by how well Johnson is polling with blue collar workers in the North/Midlands. May be a false rumour, but fits a general feeling.

I had some (a lot) of reservations about how Johnson would go down with voters who perhaps weren't familiar with him which is pretty much everywhere outside London.

I thought his slightly pompous, rambling, upper class buffoon act would go down like a cup of cold sick but the opposite seems to be true.

I think the younger generation find him funny and the older generation find him a breath of fresh air from typical politicians.

Which is fine up until the point the kids don't find him funny anymore and the older crowd realise that quirky doesn't always mean different.

I’m unconvinced.
Just as Trump would have lost against anyone but Hillary, Johnson is unappealing against anyone but Corbyn.

Gardenwalker said:

It feels like momentum is drifting away from Boris and/or his Deal.

You could be right and labour should vote for a GE and take the chance

SunnyJim said:

rottenborough said:

I've read that Tory strategists are surprised by how well Johnson is polling with blue collar workers in the North/Midlands. May be a false rumour, but fits a general feeling.

I had some (a lot) of reservations about how Johnson would go down with voters who perhaps weren't familiar with him which is pretty much everywhere outside London.

I thought his slightly pompous, rambling, upper class buffoon act would go down like a cup of cold sick but the opposite seems to be true.

I think the younger generation find him funny and the older generation find him a breath of fresh air from typical politicians.

Which is fine up until the point the kids don't find him funny anymore and the older crowd realise that quirky doesn't always mean different.

Fools are easily pleased in the short term at least

TudorRose said:

Gardenwalker said:

TudorRose said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TudorRose said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Gardenwalker said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

That was the best england performance i have ever watched.

I think this is true, which is galling if you grew up rather sniffy and dismissive of them.

We were just outclassed.

(Goes off to cry in a corner).

Fair play - Chwarae teg

I will be loudly supporting your boys tomorrow, Big G.

Diolch yn fawr

We'll have none of that smut on here, thank you very much!

Do you even know what it means !!!!!!

No idea, but it sounds dodgy....

It would be good if British people knew just a smattering of Welsh and Gaelic. They are languages native to these isles, after all.

So are many of the regional dialects, but alas many of those have effectively been killed off by Estuary English already.

What’s Yorkshire for whataboutery?

Astonishing revelation in a new biography:

"Theresa May was a 'terrible campaigner' whose 'inflexible and introverted character' caused the Tories to lose their majority at the 2017 election, a new biography claims"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7615571/Theresa-leader-riddled-anxiety-new-biography-claims.html

AlastairMeeks said:

TudorRose said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sandpit said:

SunnyJim said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

+1

If MPs collectively want to restore some sanity to politics, they’ll choose a mild-mannered and impartial umpire in Lindsay Hoyle.

My worry is that, if they don’t, we’ll quickly go down the American route of having partisan Speakers and Judges.

The Speaker is not there to be impartial. He is there to speak for the interests of Parliament. John Bercow evidently has the support of MPs in his stances - unsurprisingly so when the executive is clueless, authoritarian and lacking any mandate for its approach.

A supine Speaker who rolls over before the government is exactly not what is required just now.

No. He evidently has the support of some MPs - and therein lies the problem. Every time he pleases/upsets some MPs they are the same ones; and that doesn't help Parliament in the slightest.

As John Bercow himself pointed out, Jacob Rees-Mogg has done a 180 degree turn in six months. We have the absurdity of seeing Leavers scream for less Parliamentary scrutiny for policies that Parliament is unpersuaded by. Just to state it shows the ridiculousness of their position.

When taking office Bercow said 'My commitment to this House is to be completely impartial as between members of one political party and another.' He has clearly failed in that commitment (as indeed he has to others, such as transparency).

rottenborough said:

Astonishing revelation in a new biography:

"Theresa May was a 'terrible campaigner' whose 'inflexible and introverted character' caused the Tories to lose their majority at the 2017 election, a new biography claims"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7615571/Theresa-leader-riddled-anxiety-new-biography-claims.html

I am sure most of us on here knew that

AlastairMeeks said:

MaxPB said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sandpit said:

SunnyJim said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

+1

If MPs collectively want to restore some sanity to politics, they’ll choose a mild-mannered and impartial umpire in Lindsay Hoyle.

My worry is that, if they don’t, we’ll quickly go down the American route of having partisan Speakers and Judges.

The Speaker is not there to be impartial. He is there to speak for the interests of Parliament. John Bercow evidently has the support of MPs in his stances - unsurprisingly so when the executive is clueless, authoritarian and lacking any mandate for its approach.

A supine Speaker who rolls over before the government is exactly not what is required just now.

So if the government had a majority then you're saying he should act in favour of the majority, since they make up "Parliament". No, you just support his stance because you're both on the same side.

The usual nonsense from pb’s village idiot. The Speaker is there to look after Parliament’s interests. The screaming ab dabs are coming from those who want the executive to be allowed to steamroller Parliament. He was just as awkward for Theresa May (and the death cult supported his efforts then) and David Cameron moaned about how he tripped him up too. He appears sincerely to believe in letting Parliament hold the government to account. Good.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what Bercow has done, if you look into the detail of it apart from starting from the “evil speaker out to stop Brexit” viewpoint. The fact is that we have a hung parliament and that has led to the speaker having more power, or at least being seen to be ‘responsible’ for what happens, more than if we had a majority government.

Bercows main failing is the fact that he loves to pontificate and therefore gives an invitation to people looking into his motives and perceived biases.

Roger said:

Gardenwalker said:

How long does a Labour leadership contest need to last? That’s one of the metrics we need to start thinking about.

Agreed. That any Labour supporter can want to go into an election with someone lagging 15 points in the polls either can't read or deliberately wants to lose. Corbyn must resign in the very near future or try to delay the election until 2022 when old age might intervene and resignation might be forced on him

There may not be a choice by this time next week

I expect Boris to fail with his call for a GE on monday

I expect the EU to lose patience with the HOC and on tuesday give the choice of passing the deal (actually an international treaty) by the 15th November or extend to 31st January to hold a GE, take it or leave it

And it will be Macron, EU's most powerful leader, calling the shots. He wants this over as well as the EU and see the UK out so he and the EU can move on

AlastairMeeks said:

TudorRose said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TudorRose said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sandpit said:

SunnyJim said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

+1

If MPs collectively want to restore some sanity to politics, they’ll choose a mild-mannered and impartial umpire in Lindsay Hoyle.

My worry is that, if they don’t, we’ll quickly go down the American route of having partisan Speakers and Judges.

The Speaker is not there to be impartial. He is there to speak for the interests of Parliament. John Bercow evidently has the support of MPs in his stances - unsurprisingly so when the executive is clueless, authoritarian and lacking any mandate for its approach.

A supine Speaker who rolls over before the government is exactly not what is required just now.

No. He evidently has the support of some MPs - and therein lies the problem. Every time he pleases/upsets some MPs they are the same ones; and that doesn't help Parliament in the slightest.

As John Bercow himself pointed out, Jacob Rees-Mogg has done a 180 degree turn in six months. We have the absurdity of seeing Leavers scream for less Parliamentary scrutiny for policies that Parliament is unpersuaded by. Just to state it shows the ridiculousness of their position.

When taking office Bercow said 'My commitment to this House is to be completely impartial as between members of one political party and another.' He has clearly failed in that commitment (as indeed he has to others, such as transparency).

His job is to help MPs do their jobs. Your suggestion that he has been partial between parties is impossible to sustain. You just really like policies for which there is nothing like a majority in Parliament and would like MPs not to be able to do their jobs in relation to those policies.

No. I see a man who calls one colleague 'a stupid woman', insults a former chief whip and used one MP's children as a mechanism for attacking that MP. All of these MPs belong to one party, which is a clear indication of partiality.

AlastairMeeks said:

TudorRose said:

AlastairMeeks said:

TudorRose said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Sandpit said:

SunnyJim said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

And he goes this next week.

Cannot come soon enough.

The pompous, bullying, pro remain speaker has demeaned his office on a scale I could not imagine of any speaker

The reactions in the house next week should emphasize just how partisan and biased he has been as a speaker.

The silence on one side versus enthusiastic praise on the other is not a sign of competence in someone whose role should be executed as an impartial arbiter.

He has been terrible but fortunately there is an opportunity for the next incumbent, and as a Tory i'd be happy with Hoyle, to restore the respect to a role that has been debased over the last few years.

+1

If MPs collectively want to restore some sanity to politics, they’ll choose a mild-mannered and impartial umpire in Lindsay Hoyle.

My worry is that, if they don’t, we’ll quickly go down the American route of having partisan Speakers and Judges.

The Speaker is not there to be impartial. He is there to speak for the interests of Parliament. John Bercow evidently has the support of MPs in his stances - unsurprisingly so when the executive is clueless, authoritarian and lacking any mandate for its approach.

A supine Speaker who rolls over before the government is exactly not what is required just now.

No. He evidently has the support of some MPs - and therein lies the problem. Every time he pleases/upsets some MPs they are the same ones; and that doesn't help Parliament in the slightest.

As John Bercow himself pointed out, Jacob Rees-Mogg has done a 180 degree turn in six months. We have the absurdity of seeing Leavers scream for less Parliamentary scrutiny for policies that Parliament is unpersuaded by. Just to state it shows the ridiculousness of their position.

When taking office Bercow said 'My commitment to this House is to be completely impartial as between members of one political party and another.' He has clearly failed in that commitment (as indeed he has to others, such as transparency).

His job is to help MPs do their jobs. Your suggestion that he has been partial between parties is impossible to sustain. You just really like policies for which there is nothing like a majority in Parliament and would like MPs not to be able to do their jobs in relation to those policies.

You are a "Biased Tory" is the words you are looking for Alistair. He seems incapable of separating party from what is right.

rottenborough said:

Astonishing revelation in a new biography:

"Theresa May was a 'terrible campaigner' whose 'inflexible and introverted character' caused the Tories to lose their majority at the 2017 election, a new biography claims"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7615571/Theresa-leader-riddled-anxiety-new-biography-claims.html

May made two big mistakes in the election campaign:

1. The decision to prattle on about policies that were unpopular with key voters;

2. The decision to skip the debates.

I think she would acknowledge the latter if pushed. Even if she’d have come out of it badly (its Theresa May, so I don’t think we could have expected a charismatic tour de force) I don’t think it would have done anything near the damage that the “frit” narrative did to her.

I think if she’d managed to avoid both of those pitfalls we could be looking at a very different result right now. Maybe not a sizeable Tory majority but perhaps something like a majority of 30-40. Might not have been enough to see her deal through at the start but would probably have been enough to carry it when it came to the crunch. We could have Brexited and could be looking at another 3 years of PM May at this point.

Gardenwalker said:

egg said:

rottenborough said:

Gardenwalker said:

SunnyJim said:

rottenborough said:

I've read that Tory strategists are surprised by how well Johnson is polling with blue collar workers in the North/Midlands. May be a false rumour, but fits a general feeling.

I had some (a lot) of reservations about how Johnson would go down with voters who perhaps weren't familiar with him which is pretty much everywhere outside London.

I thought his slightly pompous, rambling, upper class buffoon act would go down like a cup of cold sick but the opposite seems to be true.

I think the younger generation find him funny and the older generation find him a breath of fresh air from typical politicians.

Which is fine up until the point the kids don't find him funny anymore and the older crowd realise that quirky doesn't always mean different.

I’m unconvinced.
Just as Trump would have lost against anyone but Hillary, Johnson is unappealing against anyone but Corbyn.

But he is facing Corbyn, and the idiot membership of Labour can't see what a gift that is to the conservatives.

I think there is an over tendency for media to go vox popping in big leave areas during day and talking to old people and shop/stall owners to create that feeling. On here yesterday people laughed at suggestion Barnsley is Tory gain, but look at the vox popping and size of leave.

Bolstered by our dear HY, armed with irresistible polling and ONS gains.

But against it is what happened in Peterborough in a real election?

The media don’t have a scooby doo.
Most will be confused that there appears to be no direct train to Bassetlaw.

They can always go to Orkney on Jeremy's favourite train journey instead.

So, who blinks first? Split the difference between 4 and 12 weeks surely …. ok maybe not 8 weeks, that's Boxing Day :-)

https://twitter.com/PedderSophie/status/1187787622682431489

egg said:

rottenborough said:

Gardenwalker said:

SunnyJim said:

rottenborough said:

I've read that Tory strategists are surprised by how well Johnson is polling with blue collar workers in the North/Midlands. May be a false rumour, but fits a general feeling.

I had some (a lot) of reservations about how Johnson would go down with voters who perhaps weren't familiar with him which is pretty much everywhere outside London.

I thought his slightly pompous, rambling, upper class buffoon act would go down like a cup of cold sick but the opposite seems to be true.

I think the younger generation find him funny and the older generation find him a breath of fresh air from typical politicians.

Which is fine up until the point the kids don't find him funny anymore and the older crowd realise that quirky doesn't always mean different.

I’m unconvinced.
Just as Trump would have lost against anyone but Hillary, Johnson is unappealing against anyone but Corbyn.

But he is facing Corbyn, and the idiot membership of Labour can't see what a gift that is to the conservatives.

I think there is an over tendency for media to go vox popping in big leave areas during day and talking to old people and shop/stall owners to create that feeling. On here yesterday people laughed at suggestion Barnsley is Tory gain, but look at the vox popping and size of leave.

Bolstered by our dear HY, armed with irresistible polling and ONS gains.

But against it is what happened in Peterborough in a real election?

I hope a GE does happen and if Boris attains a majority then brexit happens but if he does not and there is a remain alliance strong enough then a referendum happens.

That is my ideal solution and I for one would accept the position and if a referndum was held would accept the result as in these circumstances they have come from a GE held in knowledge of the various arguments

I also believe if remain won it must be, and likely would be, respected