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SystemSystem Posts: 12,615
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The pressure mounts from Britain’s biggest car manufacturer

NEW: Nissan Europe chairman Gianluca de Ficchy has said a no-deal Brexit would put its entire business model in Europe “in jeopardy” and that it “won’t be sustainable”.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    First? Oh well, that is a first for me maybe?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Brexit is dead.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,868
    edited October 2019
    Nissan have also scrapped all Night shifts.

    See https://www.sunderlandecho.com/business/nissan-celebrates-launch-new-juke-sunderland-plant-confirms-loss-night-shift-669702
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    The FTPA effectively changed the 5 year Parliament rule in that a Dissolution must take place at end of March for an election in first week of May - ie it has become 4 years 10 months and three weeks.
    When an election is called early - as in 2017 - the length of the Parliament is further reduced. Were we to have an election on 28th November, the Parliament elected would be dissolved at end of March 2024 for an election at beginning of May that year - ie the Parliament would be just 4 years and 4 months in length.This assumes no Repeal of the FTPA!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    We wait for the response from Mr Cummings -


  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,579
    If you want to destroy British manufacturing, the Conservatives have an even more competlling offer than electing Jeremy Corbyn.

    That's some achievement.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    What a good idea :)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    edited October 2019
    Hopefulyl Boris and Leo will declare "peace in our time" later this afternoon. :D
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Surely it was the German car-makers who would cry foul.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    What a good idea :)
    One wonders if anything is manufactured outside the EU ?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF2 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    What a good idea :)
    One wonders if anything is manufactured outside the EU ?
    Don't be ridiculous there is no world outside the EU!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,423
    The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal
  • eekeek Posts: 30,868
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Surely it was the German car-makers who would cry foul.

    It's infrastructure that is the issue here - it's not selling cars that is the issue - it' bringing in the parts not made locally which I believe is the concern.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,634
    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    I’m shocked that they voted against an EU measure.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    HYUFD said:

    The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal

    It sounds like Nissan is calling for a compromise from all sides when they talk fo their "entire business model in Europe" which is exactly what Boris is calling for.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,251
    HYUFD said:

    The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal

    Its entire business model in Europe is "build cars in the UK and Spain, sell them to the whole EU". So it's pretty obvious that Nissan's business is threatened by No Deal regardless of any other impact on rEU.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,224
    Boris will be okay. There's no problem that he and Dom can't make someone else sound responsible for. Boris's career is safe.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,400
    TGOHF2 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    What a good idea :)
    One wonders if anything is manufactured outside the EU ?
    There are many markets outside the EU.

    We trade with the most important of these via favourable trade deals between the EU and those markets.

    We lose access to those trade deals overnight in the event of No Deal Brexit on 31st.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,400
    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    And we're stopped from cutting corporation tax and income tax whilst inside the EU are we?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    And we're stopped from cutting corporation tax and income tax whilst inside the EU are we?
    Well EU membership does cost us a billion pounds per month remember. We could cut corporation tax by at least 4% with that money. ;)
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,400
    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    I’m shocked that they voted against an EU measure.
    And it's one to combat Russian interference, which would screw up the whole Farage/Banks business model.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,932
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    And we're stopped from cutting corporation tax and income tax whilst inside the EU are we?
    The Lib Dems should add both tax cuts and public spending increases to their offer - the pound's rise upon revocation won't be so good for exporters. It'd make remaining more palatable I think for leavers too.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited October 2019
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Boris will be okay. There's no problem that he and Dom can't make someone else sound responsible for. Boris's career is safe.

    It is , HYFUD is correct , that Johnson wins an election with a majority for five years.
    Deal or no deal, it is easy with a split opposition,under FPTP.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,634
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    I’m shocked that they voted against an EU measure.
    And it's one to combat Russian interference, which would screw up the whole Farage/Banks business model.
    That would probably be more relevant if they had a track record of voting for EU measures, don’t you think?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,400
    RobD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    I’m shocked that they voted against an EU measure.
    And it's one to combat Russian interference, which would screw up the whole Farage/Banks business model.
    That would probably be more relevant if they had a track record of voting for EU measures, don’t you think?
    Yes, you're correct. Their record of obstructing everything allows them to hide in plain sight when obstructing a measure to cut off their dirty Russian cash, as you rightly say.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,932
    Off topic - When is the porno ban coming in ? Judge led enquiry on it now or some such ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,634
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    RobD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    I’m shocked that they voted against an EU measure.
    And it's one to combat Russian interference, which would screw up the whole Farage/Banks business model.
    That would probably be more relevant if they had a track record of voting for EU measures, don’t you think?
    Yes, you're correct. Their record of obstructing everything allows them to hide in plain sight when obstructing a measure to cut off their dirty Russian cash, as you rightly say.
    They have been playing the long game all along.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal

    It sounds like Nissan is calling for a compromise from all sides when they talk fo their "entire business model in Europe" which is exactly what Boris is calling for.
    By an unacceptable compromise supported only by the DUP in NI and fails to respect the Belfast Agreement.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Interesting read

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/10/myths-small-island-dangers-buccaneering-view-british-history
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665

    I refuse to let my hopes be built up by this Tweet.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,794
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665

    Hopefully they’ll agree to return the 6 Counties, thereby solving a number of issues in one fell swoop
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,805
    Mr. Pulpstar, not heard much of that tosh (or the wanking licences they think corner shops should sell). I think it's been delayed twice.

    The way things are going the Government will want you to buy a licence to watch videos of adults eating snacks on the train.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,002
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard.
    The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited October 2019
    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,932
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, not heard much of that tosh (or the wanking licences they think corner shops should sell). I think it's been delayed twice.

    The way things are going the Government will want you to buy a licence to watch videos of adults eating snacks on the train.

    A set of scales (Or calipers if you think you've got a muscular build) before being allowed into the buffet car :D ?
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic - When is the porno ban coming in ? Judge led enquiry on it now or some such ?

    How do you know it hasn’t already.....?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,634
    edited October 2019
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    Welcome. I think the three million were employed by the treasury making duff forecasts. :p
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    148grss said:

    Interesting read

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/10/myths-small-island-dangers-buccaneering-view-british-history

    Yes. Very.
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, not heard much of that tosh (or the wanking licences they think corner shops should sell). I think it's been delayed twice.

    The way things are going the Government will want you to buy a licence to watch videos of adults eating snacks on the train.

    :)
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,400
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    Welcome. Hopefully the standard of your comments will improve over time, admittedly from the low base of basically saying, "7000 workers in Sunderland? Sod 'em - not enough for me to give a damn about".
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    edited October 2019
    I see the Brexit benefits keep rolling in....

    Not!

    But at least the passports will be blue. Hooray!!!!
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    EU will offer up a 6 month extension and then the parliament from hell will not stand aside until we have had a crap deal vs remain referendum.

    No election any time soon.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,220
    MikeSmithson said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    We wait for the response from Mr Cummings -


    "Thatcher was soft. She caved in far too many times."
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF2 said:

    EU will offer up a 6 month extension and then the parliament from hell will not stand aside until we have had a crap deal vs remain referendum.

    No election any time soon.

    And who will be PM and Chancellor, who will make budgetary decisions, during this ghoulish Halloween stitchup?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,779
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,740
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665

    This seems strange . Wouldn’t him leaving early suggest talks hadn’t gone well. And the longer they’re in there the better I would have thought .

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,053
    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    possibly the least surprising news of the week. They would;dn't want to risk getting their funding cut off!
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    EU will offer up a 6 month extension and then the parliament from hell will not stand aside until we have had a crap deal vs remain referendum.

    No election any time soon.

    And who will be PM and Chancellor, who will make budgetary decisions, during this ghoulish Halloween stitchup?
    Diane Abbott and Dominic Grieve.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/1182287448447041536
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665

    This seems strange . Wouldn’t him leaving early suggest talks hadn’t gone well. And the longer they’re in there the better I would have thought .

    Ah yes that's what I thought and I misread the Tweet the way you're saying. It only makes sense to be talking if there's something to talk about. If the talks were wrapped up in half an hour then that would basically be civilities and a decision that nothing could be agreed.

    Likely still nothing can be agreed, but surely the longer the talks the better?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,651
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665

    That makes no sense.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,774
    Pulpstar said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Pulpstar, not heard much of that tosh (or the wanking licences they think corner shops should sell). I think it's been delayed twice.

    The way things are going the Government will want you to buy a licence to watch videos of adults eating snacks on the train.

    A set of scales (Or calipers if you think you've got a muscular build) before being allowed into the buffet car :D ?
    I checked. Trains with buffet cars/catering are excluded from the proposals. As mighht be expected.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,474
    Philip_Thompson said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    And we're stopped from cutting corporation tax and income tax whilst inside the EU are we?
    Well EU membership does cost us a billion pounds per month remember. We could cut corporation tax by at least 4% with that money. ;)
    Good point. Next question. Are we actually going to do that?

    At some point all these infinite "cans" and "coulds" are going to have to be resolved into "do" or "not do"
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    OllyT said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    possibly the least surprising news of the week. They would;dn't want to risk getting their funding cut off!
    Farage is Putin is Farage
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,002
    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
    With Bolivian Lithium and African copper - truly a green technology..
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,632
    TGOHF2 said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    What a good idea :)
    One wonders if anything is manufactured outside the EU ?
    For car manufacturers if we are not in EU and it means extra cost then they are better building them in Japan or in Renault's EU plants and avoid any hassles. Simple logic.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
    With Bolivian Lithium and African copper - truly a green technology..
    Yes it is. Massively greener than ICE and massively better for our lungs let alone any other issues. Air quality in this country would be vastly improved and that alone is worth it.

    Are we proposing we shouldn't import raw materials? We shouldn't use Lithium or Copper?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    Point 11 is pivotal. We need to work together to fight the vicious antidemocratic propaganda coming out of Moscow.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,002
    edited October 2019
    TGOHF2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
    With Bolivian Lithium and African copper - truly a green technology..
    Well yes, and yes.

    Though the raw materials and their sources are rather more diverse than that.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    148grss said:

    Interesting read

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/10/myths-small-island-dangers-buccaneering-view-british-history

    For those lacking time to read it, the key concept is this one... "Leavers use the past to imagine the future"

    But it is well worth reading and seems to explain why Leavers do not want to go into detail about how the new Days of Glory will be achieved.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/1182287448447041536

    The net is closing in on Colludy Rudy.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.

    Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Noo said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/1182287448447041536

    The net is closing in on Colludy Rudy.
    The time to stop his fooling around and straighten right out has been and gone.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,251
    Noo said:

    The net is closing in on Colludy Rudy.

    He's Scrudy.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    TGOHF2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
    With Bolivian Lithium and African copper - truly a green technology..
    Such ignorance and half truths, don't you guys have Google?
    Nissan make battery electric cars in Sunderland
    http://nissaninsider.co.uk/made-in-britain-the-new-nissan-leaf-with-more-than-100-updates/
    Tesla will be building a new Gigafactory in Germany and other companies will also build battery factories in Europe.
    Bettery cars are greener by a long way over ICE cars, although they aren't perfect.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    Noo said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    Point 11 is pivotal. We need to work together to fight the vicious antidemocratic propaganda coming out of Moscow.
    It is so blatant. So much for Leave fanatics being patriots. Putin's poodles or useful idiots more like.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    And the tragic irony is they brought it on themselves.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,851
    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic - When is the porno ban coming in ? Judge led enquiry on it now or some such ?

    Bozo has probably vetoed it. Too many close friends who would be adversely affected.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,868
    Tabman said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    And the tragic irony is they brought it on themselves.
    That's unlikely - although I suspect those who tried and failed to get jobs may well have been responsible.

    Brexit is the revenge of the have-nots, It isn't going to end well.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/LiamThorpECHO/status/1182280306625265665

    That makes no sense.
    Surely a short meeting = very good or very bad
    Long meeting = matters to discuss = somewhere between good and bad
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    viewcode said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Sounds like a cut in corporation tax and taxes on employment would be an idea.

    And we're stopped from cutting corporation tax and income tax whilst inside the EU are we?
    Well EU membership does cost us a billion pounds per month remember. We could cut corporation tax by at least 4% with that money. ;)
    Good point. Next question. Are we actually going to do that?

    At some point all these infinite "cans" and "coulds" are going to have to be resolved into "do" or "not do"
    I presume that was a rhetorical question? Once the Brexit reality hits, HMG will need all the revenue it can lay its hands on.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Beibheirli_C said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
    They seem to see No Deal as a kind of national hazing ceremony.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    logical_song said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
    With Bolivian Lithium and African copper - truly a green technology..
    Such ignorance and half truths, don't you guys have Google?
    Nissan make battery electric cars in Sunderland
    http://nissaninsider.co.uk/made-in-britain-the-new-nissan-leaf-with-more-than-100-updates/
    Tesla will be building a new Gigafactory in Germany and other companies will also build battery factories in Europe.
    Bettery cars are greener by a long way over ICE cars, although they aren't perfect.
    There is absolutely no justification for ICE over battery vehicles besides the cost and difficulty in recharging at the moment. As charging stations roll out and the cost of battery vehicles falls each year [and the quality of them improves each year] they are the undoubted future.

    My only qualm is I have no idea how I would charge one if I got one. I have no garage or driveway, I park overnight on the road a fair distance from my house as do all my neighbours. There needs to be a solution to that, when there is and the costs come down there's zero reason why ICE vehicles should not be made illegal. Our air quality will dramatically improve once done.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Beibheirli_C said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
    "Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard.
    The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
    Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,651
    edited October 2019
    Extinction Rebellion: Flight delayed as activists vow to 'shut down' airport

    BBC Newsnight's Nicholas Watt said his flight was about to take off when a protester refused to resume his seat.

    Police arrested several people blocking the airport entrance as others glued themselves to the floor and one man climbed on top of a plane.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-50000110

    Twats.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,634
    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off topic - When is the porno ban coming in ? Judge led enquiry on it now or some such ?

    Bozo has probably vetoed it. Too many close friends who would be adversely affected.
    Damn, I was hoping to supplement my income by smuggling stuff in for desperate PBers.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    williamglenn said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
    They seem to see No Deal as a kind of national hazing ceremony.
    I do wonder...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard.
    The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
    Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
    Parody account.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Noo said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1182265405668286464

    Point 11 is pivotal. We need to work together to fight the vicious antidemocratic propaganda coming out of Moscow.
    https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/russia-and-north-korea-state-news-agencies-team-up-against-fake-news/
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,053
    TGOHF2 said:

    EU will offer up a 6 month extension and then the parliament from hell will not stand aside until we have had a crap deal vs remain referendum.

    No election any time soon.

    Under our archaic voting system an election would allow a government committed to a No Deal to get an overall majority on 35% of the votes despite a clear majority of voters backing parties totally opposed to that. No wonder our "democratic" leavers prefer an election to a referendum.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard.
    The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
    Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
    Who cares what they would have thought? They lived in a different world. And they are dead.

    So their opinion counts for zero.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Philip_Thompson said:

    logical_song said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    Depends if it’s ICE vehicles then it will be shut within 10 years regardless.

    If fully electric then fair enough.
    And the plans for those plants are being developed (and announced) now.
    The new mega battery factories will be in Germany, Poland, Finland etc, rather than here.
    With Bolivian Lithium and African copper - truly a green technology..
    Such ignorance and half truths, don't you guys have Google?
    Nissan make battery electric cars in Sunderland
    http://nissaninsider.co.uk/made-in-britain-the-new-nissan-leaf-with-more-than-100-updates/
    Tesla will be building a new Gigafactory in Germany and other companies will also build battery factories in Europe.
    Bettery cars are greener by a long way over ICE cars, although they aren't perfect.
    There is absolutely no justification for ICE over battery vehicles besides the cost and difficulty in recharging at the moment. As charging stations roll out and the cost of battery vehicles falls each year [and the quality of them improves each year] they are the undoubted future.

    My only qualm is I have no idea how I would charge one if I got one. I have no garage or driveway, I park overnight on the road a fair distance from my house as do all my neighbours. There needs to be a solution to that, when there is and the costs come down there's zero reason why ICE vehicles should not be made illegal. Our air quality will dramatically improve once done.
    People have suggested turning street lampposts into charging points. I don't know what stage that idea is at, or how practical it is from a security point of view.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,805
    Miss Cyclefree, I, for one, am eagerly looking forward to the 'masturbating without a government licence' fetish videos that are undoubtedly ahead.

    "Go on. You know you want to. Enjoy yourself without filling out the state paperwork and receiving the appropriate permit, baby."
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Surely some of those little fences they put around an open manhole would be the solution, then let him get on with it.
    https://twitter.com/CatrinNye/status/1182229976273346560
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal

    Exactly. No deal is in nobody's interests which is why it is so insane that the Tories are countenancing it.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Anorak said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
    "Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
    :+1:
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    Anorak said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
    "Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
    People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard.
    The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
    Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
    Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU" :D

    Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited October 2019
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Anorak said:

    Beibheirli_C said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...

    And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
    "Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
    People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
    As I said below, a clear parody account.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Cyclefree, I, for one, am eagerly looking forward to the 'masturbating without a government licence' fetish videos that are undoubtedly ahead.

    "Go on. You know you want to. Enjoy yourself without filling out the state paperwork and receiving the appropriate permit, baby."

    Mr Dancer! Too much information!!!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    They both slipped out the back door disguised as waiters two hours ago after a few pints of Guinness.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Noo said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Nigelb said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.

    I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard.
    The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
    Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
    Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU" :D

    Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
    :D:D
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,779
    edited October 2019
    Time_to_Leave said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Time_to_Leave said:

    Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.

    We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.

    And, hello.

    So much ignorance in this message.

    Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.

    If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
    You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.

    Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.

    A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
    What has any of that got to do with anything?
This discussion has been closed.

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