I'm sat here wondering what would happen if these people so, evidently worried about the use of aviation, pulled the same stunt in a Moscow airport. Or a Chinese one maybe.
It would be interesting, but never going to happen. They only do this kind of thing in the evil capitalist "West" who allow them to pull such virtue-signalling self-indulgent nonsense.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal
Exactly. No deal is in nobody's interests which is why it is so insane that the Tories are countenancing it.
They're a way beyond countenancing it. They're going for it and planning to make it official govt policy if reports are to be believed.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.
We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.
And, hello.
So much ignorance in this message.
Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.
If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.
Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
Can you guarantee that I'll still get the essential medication that keeps me alive?
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.
We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.
And, hello.
So much ignorance in this message.
Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.
If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.
Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
Can you guarantee that I'll still get the essential medication that keeps me alive?
They don't care. Nothing is bad enough to stop them wanting to "beat" Brussels.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
Some people did vote leave because they thought they'd be better off, and when you win a vote on a 52/48 level, you need to hold that coalition together. So that majority coalition falls apart once actual Deals or lack thereof start appearing.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
To be fair, movies were around in the 19th century.
Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.
We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.
And, hello.
So much ignorance in this message.
Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.
If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.
Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
Can you guarantee that I'll still get the essential medication that keeps me alive?
Just allow a Brexiter to bite you and you don't have to worry about death.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my life can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will (edit - insert probably) have to be no deal.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
And didn't the these characters represent the following?
The Tin Man: factory workers The Scarecrow: agricultural labourers. The Cowardly Lion: ineffectual trade unions. The Wicked Witch of the East: Wall Street.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my like can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will have to be no deal.
"None of them voted on economic grounds." - I KNOW this isn't true, because I have spoken to Leave voters who say they voted to make the country richer, to give that money to the NHS and to get better trade deals and better lives.
It only takes 2% of the electorate to have voted Leave for that reason alone to take away the majority of Leave.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
The EEA is tied to the EU by definition. It cannot exist without it.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
And didn't the these characters represent the following?
The Tin Man: factory workers The Scarecrow: agricultural labourers. The Cowardly Lion: ineffectual trade unions. The Wicked Witch of the East: Wall Street.
I thought the lion was some president or other. The yellow brick road was the gold standard, the silver slippers (not ruby as in the film, but silver in the book) were the silver standard. I forget the details.
Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.
We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.
And, hello.
So much ignorance in this message.
Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.
If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.
Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
Can you guarantee that I'll still get the essential medication that keeps me alive?
Well the Government and NHS have basically said “yes” but with the “we can’t ever fully guarantee it, the Martians might zap the factory” caveat. If I though for one minute a no deal scenario would restrict access to vital medication, I’d think again, but I see no evidence of that.
I think the issues we’ll see are the ones driven by medication like that being prioritised and assured. It will mean other things, that are liked but not needed, may be in short supply.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
To be fair, movies were around in the 19th century.
And you didn’t need a government licence to watch them, no matter how smutty. See, it’s not all progress.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my like can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will have to be no deal.
"None of them voted on economic grounds." - I KNOW this isn't true, because I have spoken to Leave voters who say they voted to make the country richer, to give that money to the NHS and to get better trade deals and better lives.
It only takes 2% of the electorate to have voted Leave for that reason alone to take away the majority of Leave.
They must have been pretty thick to think it would make things better.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
The EEA is tied to the EU by definition. It cannot exist without it.
Technically it is still "Leave". It is external to the EU in the way a remora is external to its host shark.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
And didn't the these characters represent the following?
The Tin Man: factory workers The Scarecrow: agricultural labourers. The Cowardly Lion: ineffectual trade unions. The Wicked Witch of the East: Wall Street.
Ironic that it is what is left of the Conservative Party which is hell-bent on destroying one of Maggie Thatcher's great achievements.
I tend to regard you, TSE and the other fugitives as what's left of the Conservative party, Richard. The organisation which retains the rights to the name has pretty well abandoned conservatism.
Where do you folks think Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU question? Seems to me you’re relying a narrow, post Baldwin (or possibly post SuperMac) view of a certain type of conservatism. National Liberalism, perhaps.
Did you really coming shuffling in here accusing someone of being "quite young", and then start musing about what "Salisbury or Bonar Law would have stood on the EU"
Wait til you hear about the new band called the Rolling Stones. You're gonna lose your shit big time.
One way you’ll come round to my thinking on the gold standard and that’s that.
Did I once read something about the Wizard of Oz being an extended allegory for the gold standard? Something to do with the Popular Party in the USA, and farmers. It was quite interesting.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie) ((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
To be fair, movies were around in the 19th century.
And you didn’t need a government licence to watch them, no matter how smutty. See, it’s not all progress.
You have a collection of zeotropes showing nothing but men in bathing suits stroking their moustaches, haven't you.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
But what about their precious sequencing?
He said that the EU was coming to the understanding that the Irish border issue can not be solved before the trade talks, big concession if true.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Why do that when they can kick it another 6 months down the road? They know the Benn Act exists...
The only justification is as a backup plan in case Boris wiggles out of the Benn Act in some way, but I assume it will be the EU's deal or No Deal.
*sigh!*
It is getting bad when the EU has to spoon-feed us a working FTA because we cannot arrange our own....
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Isn't that what Hammond was suggesting on the Today programme this morning?
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my like can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will have to be no deal.
"None of them voted on economic grounds." - I KNOW this isn't true, because I have spoken to Leave voters who say they voted to make the country richer, to give that money to the NHS and to get better trade deals and better lives.
It only takes 2% of the electorate to have voted Leave for that reason alone to take away the majority of Leave.
Doesn’t really matter now. We no longer need 52%, just 35-40%.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
But what about their precious sequencing?
He said that the EU was coming to the understanding that the Irish border issue can not be solved before the trade talks, big concession if true.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my like can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will have to be no deal.
"None of them voted on economic grounds." - I KNOW this isn't true, because I have spoken to Leave voters who say they voted to make the country richer, to give that money to the NHS and to get better trade deals and better lives.
It only takes 2% of the electorate to have voted Leave for that reason alone to take away the majority of Leave.
They must have been pretty thick to think it would make things better.
I mean, the people on the TV said so, and made them feel better. It isn't about being thick, lots of smart people voted Leave. It's about feeling helpless and seeing something that could mean change and going for that change.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Why do that when they can kick it another 6 months down the road? They know the Benn Act exists...
The only justification is as a backup plan in case Boris wiggles out of the Benn Act in some way.
The economies are deteriorating quickly in the EU, this would enable them to lock in stability of trade with the UK for years. if they go Benn and BoJo wins the GE, they have more instability and no deal threats.
Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.
We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.
And, hello.
So much ignorance in this message.
Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.
If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.
Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
Can you guarantee that I'll still get the essential medication that keeps me alive?
You weren't satisfied with You’re quite young aren’t you? , then ?
Miss Cyclefree, not the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.
That would probably be the blinking fetish. Or possibly the dragons having sex with cars one.
On a serious note, it's detestable how the Government (a 'Conservative' one at that) seems so inclined to ban and restrict things for reasons of puritanism.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my life can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will (edit - insert probably) have to be no deal.
People didn't think that £350m a week was going to make them better off?
I accept that the vote was primarily about identity, and that people often vote to make themselves personally worse off - I've made those arguments repeatedly.
You're deluded if you think all the 52% voted for those reasons.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Isn't that what Hammond was suggesting on the Today programme this morning?
Can you guarantee that I'll still get the essential medication that keeps me alive?
Well the Government and NHS have basically said “yes” but with the “we can’t ever fully guarantee it, the Martians might zap the factory” caveat.
Here's what the Yellowhammer document actually says:
6. The BDG/DfT planning assumption on reduced flow rates describes a pre-mitigation reasonable worst case flow rate that could be as low as 40% D1ND via the short Channel Straits, with significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies. The reliance of medicines and medical products’ supply chains on the short straits crossing make them particularly vulnerable to severe extended delays; three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits. Supply chains are also highly regulated and require transportation that meets strict Good Distribution Practices. This can include limits on time of transit, or mean product must be transported under temperature controlled conditions. Whilst some products can be stockpiled, others cannot due to short shelf lives – it will also not be practical to stockpile products to cover expected delays of up to six months. DHSC is developing a multi-layered approach to mitigate these risks. (DHSC) ii. Any disruption to reduce, delay or stop supply of medicines for UK veterinary use would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks, with potential detrimental impacts for animal health and welfare, the environment, and wider food safety/availability and zoonotic diseases which can directly impact human health. Industry stockpiling will not be able to match the 4-12 weeks’ worth of stockpiling which took place in March 2019. Air freight capacity and the special import scheme is not a financially viable mitigation to fully close risks associated with all UK veterinary medicine availability issues due to border disruption. (DEFRA)
Note that while for human medicines there is a sentence of waffle about trying to mitigate the risks, but for veterinary medicines they don't even claim that anything can be done.
Doesn’t really matter now. We no longer need 52%, just 35-40%.
The one good thing about No Deal / Brexit will be the Show Trials after it all turns out to be sh*t and Leavers have to recant their heresey and then be sent to work on farms to pick all those vegetables that Europeans used to harvest.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Why do that when they can kick it another 6 months down the road? They know the Benn Act exists...
The only justification is as a backup plan in case Boris wiggles out of the Benn Act in some way.
The economies are deteriorating quickly in the EU, this would enable them to lock in stability of trade with the UK for years. if they go Benn and BoJo wins the GE, they have more instability and no deal threats.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Isn't that what Hammond was suggesting on the Today programme this morning?
Certainly the quick FTA part.
It would have to be lightning quick to be in place by do-or-die day!
Having said that, it's certainly true that the EU's insistence on negotiating the transition before anyone knows what we're supposed to be transitioning to has been at the heart of the difficulty, as pointed out by many over two years ago.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Why do that when they can kick it another 6 months down the road? They know the Benn Act exists...
The only justification is as a backup plan in case Boris wiggles out of the Benn Act in some way.
The economies are deteriorating quickly in the EU, this would enable them to lock in stability of trade with the UK for years. if they go Benn and BoJo wins the GE, they have more instability and no deal threats.
The EU has surely and belatedly realised that their dream of keeping Britain inside is actually a nightmare. The UK would be permanently threatening to quit, and would also be a horrible, sullen, churlish obstacle to further integration.
As for a need to punish Britain, that’s been done. Brexit has been a proper spectacle. The UK is diminished.
So the correct course now is to compromise, and find a modestly honourable way for Britain to leave, while preserving European peace and prosperity.
Doesn’t really matter now. We no longer need 52%, just 35-40%.
The one good thing about No Deal / Brexit will be the Show Trials after it all turns out to be sh*t and Leavers have to recant their heresey and then be sent to work on farms to pick all those vegetables that Europeans used to harvest.
So this is how we become a necrocracy; we must enforce a dead policy that likely no longer has a majority because the majority for the policy once existed, despite that the policy that won the majority was sold as something that is nothing like the policy that now exists. If we have a dead parliament and a zombie government, we may as well have a Frankenstein's Monster of a Brexit policy...
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Isn't that what Hammond was suggesting on the Today programme this morning?
Certainly the quick FTA part.
I for one am disinclined to believe that sanity has somehow broken out all round...
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Why do that when they can kick it another 6 months down the road? They know the Benn Act exists...
The only justification is as a backup plan in case Boris wiggles out of the Benn Act in some way.
The economies are deteriorating quickly in the EU, this would enable them to lock in stability of trade with the UK for years. if they go Benn and BoJo wins the GE, they have more instability and no deal threats.
The EU has surely and belatedly realised that their dream of keeping Britain inside is actually a nightmare. The UK would be permanently threatening to quit, and would also be a horrible, sullen, churlish obstacle to further integration.
As for a need to punish Britain, that’s been done. Brexit has been a proper spectacle. The UK is diminished.
So the correct course now is to compromise, and find a modestly honourable way for Britain to leave, while preserving European peace and prosperity.
Doesn’t really matter now. We no longer need 52%, just 35-40%.
The one good thing about No Deal / Brexit will be the Show Trials after it all turns out to be sh*t and Leavers have to recant their heresey and then be sent to work on farms to pick all those vegetables that Europeans used to harvest.
Maybe, but counter-counter revolutions tend to be EVEN more epic..
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Isn't that what Hammond was suggesting on the Today programme this morning?
Certainly the quick FTA part.
It would have to be lightning quick to be in place by do-or-die day!
Having said that, it's certainly true that the EU's insistence on negotiating the transition before anyone knows what we're supposed to be transitioning to has been at the heart of the difficulty, as pointed out by many over two years ago.
WE DIDN'T WIN TWO WORLD WARS TO BE PUSHED AROUND BY A NIP
What's a "nip" ?
Honestly it's a pejorative? I haven't encountered before.
Google is your friend.
It's not a term one could apply to Leo Varadkar though which was my first thought but now I realise you mean the car manufactures in east Asia - so it makes more sense.
Sky News announcing that the EU and UK are talking about pausing all work to date on the WA and to move to a basic free trade agreement for Oct 31st and then over time add all the rest on.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
Isn't that what Hammond was suggesting on the Today programme this morning?
Certainly the quick FTA part.
I for one am disinclined to believe that sanity has somehow broken out all round...
I suppose you could rebrand, and lengthen, the transition period. Strip out some political bits and maybe fishing, and stick a codified time limit on a new customs union between us while we sort the future, and we might be in business. But not clear what’s in it for the EU.
I'm sat here wondering what would happen if these people so, evidently worried about the use of aviation, pulled the same stunt in a Moscow airport. Or a Chinese one maybe.
It would be interesting, but never going to happen. They only do this kind of thing in the evil capitalist "West" who allow them to pull such virtue-signalling self-indulgent nonsense.
Their aim is correct even if you don't like the tactics. Try doing something positive about climate change.
So Bozza and Leo have agreed we need to work toward a FTA but obviously there's only one way to get there. A way that needs a new session of parliament............ Theresa May's deal lives on
The fact Nissan said it was its entire business model in Europe under threat not just the UK suggests the EU would also be hit by No Deal and adds to pressure on the EU to agree the proposed Boris Deal
Exactly. No deal is in nobody's interests which is why it is so insane that the Tories are countenancing it.
They're a way beyond countenancing it. They're going for it and planning to make it official govt policy if reports are to be believed.
You might be right. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they are as duplicitous and underhand as their opponents always claim.
Comments
I'm sat here wondering what would happen if these people so, evidently worried about the use of aviation, pulled the same stunt in a Moscow airport. Or a Chinese one maybe.
It would be interesting, but never going to happen. They only do this kind of thing in the evil capitalist "West" who allow them to pull such virtue-signalling self-indulgent nonsense.
Mrs C, au contraire, not enough information registered with the state!
Looks like there might have been progress in the talks.
(spoiler, in the 1930s, it gets made into a movie)
((spoiler, it's like a photograph but it moves))
Let us pray.
All those cynically dismissing this need to consider the alternatives. Both Britain and Ireland stand on the precipice of a terrible chasm.
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my life can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will (edit - insert probably) have to be no deal.
The Tin Man: factory workers
The Scarecrow: agricultural labourers.
The Cowardly Lion: ineffectual trade unions.
The Wicked Witch of the East: Wall Street.
It only takes 2% of the electorate to have voted Leave for that reason alone to take away the majority of Leave.
The yellow brick road was the gold standard, the silver slippers (not ruby as in the film, but silver in the book) were the silver standard.
I forget the details.
I think the issues we’ll see are the ones driven by medication like that being prioritised and assured. It will mean other things, that are liked but not needed, may be in short supply.
Very interesting move if true, I could also see he was gagging to say BMW have telephoned Merkel and the Italians have sent her a case of Prosecco.
And you didn’t need a government licence to watch them, no matter how smutty. See, it’s not all progress.
The only justification is as a backup plan in case Boris wiggles out of the Benn Act in some way, but I assume it will be the EU's deal or No Deal.
*sigh!*
It is getting bad when the EU has to spoon-feed us a working FTA because we cannot arrange our own....
Honestly it's a pejorative? I haven't encountered before.
That would probably be the blinking fetish. Or possibly the dragons having sex with cars one.
On a serious note, it's detestable how the Government (a 'Conservative' one at that) seems so inclined to ban and restrict things for reasons of puritanism.
I accept that the vote was primarily about identity, and that people often vote to make themselves personally worse off - I've made those arguments repeatedly.
You're deluded if you think all the 52% voted for those reasons.
6. The BDG/DfT planning assumption on reduced flow rates describes a pre-mitigation reasonable worst case flow rate that could be as low as 40% D1ND via the short Channel Straits, with significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies.
The reliance of medicines and medical products’ supply chains on the short straits crossing make them particularly vulnerable to severe extended delays; three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits. Supply chains are also highly regulated and require transportation that meets strict Good Distribution Practices. This can include limits on time of transit, or mean product must be transported under temperature controlled conditions. Whilst some products can be stockpiled, others cannot due to short shelf lives – it will also not be practical to stockpile products to cover expected delays of up to six months. DHSC is developing a multi-layered approach to mitigate these risks. (DHSC)
ii. Any disruption to reduce, delay or stop supply of medicines for UK veterinary use would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks, with potential detrimental impacts for animal health and welfare, the environment, and wider food safety/availability and zoonotic diseases which can directly impact human health. Industry stockpiling will not be able to match the 4-12 weeks’ worth of stockpiling which took place in March 2019. Air freight capacity and the special import scheme is not a financially viable mitigation to fully close risks associated with all UK veterinary medicine availability issues due to border disruption. (DEFRA)
Note that while for human medicines there is a sentence of waffle about trying to mitigate the risks, but for veterinary medicines they don't even claim that anything can be done.
(I assume the original post was satirical.)
Having said that, it's certainly true that the EU's insistence on negotiating the transition before anyone knows what we're supposed to be transitioning to has been at the heart of the difficulty, as pointed out by many over two years ago.
As for a need to punish Britain, that’s been done. Brexit has been a proper spectacle. The UK is diminished.
So the correct course now is to compromise, and find a modestly honourable way for Britain to leave, while preserving European peace and prosperity.
That’s what SHOULD happen.
That wasn't.
Though I'm probably not the best person to get sniffy about misplaced attempts at humour.
I also said this on a previous post when you posted something similar.