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The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.0 -
OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
Didn't I say.
Saturday sitting of Parliament AND a deal would be voted on at that point.
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You aren't serious?RobD said:
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
Anyone who buys TMay's red lines about rule-taking, FOM etc etc (or the EU if it was being asked to divide the four freedoms - ie no single market in goods without FOM of labour etc)Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
What could possibly go wrong...Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.0 -
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I’d be happy with that. I don’t care any more. We just need to prevent the country breaking up, or descending into sectarian strife. Just get it done. Honour democracy.Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?
Those who want to remain can argue for rejoin and they’ll probably get another vote within 5 years. But let’s move on from this terrible place. Enough.0 -
I guess the difference is it gives remainers yet another shot if it isn't strictly time-limited.Chris said:
You aren't serious?RobD said:
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
For those following Trump impeachment odds..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/two-business-associates-of-trumps-personal-lawyer-giuliani-have-been-arrested-and-are-in-custody/2019/10/10/9f9c101a-eb63-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html
Two business associates of President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani were arrested and are in custody Thursday, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan said.
The two men, who helped Giuliani investigate former vice president Joe Biden, were arrested Wednesday night in Virginia and charged with campaign finance violations, according to a person familiar with the charges. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.
Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman have been under investigation by the U.S. Attorney’s office in Manhattan and are expected to appear in federal court in Virginia later on Thursday.
According to the indictment, Parnas, Fruman and other defendants “conspired to circumvent the federal laws against foreign influence by engaging in a scheme to funnel foreign money to candidates for federal and state office so that the defendants could by potential influence with the candidates, campaigns, and the candidates’ governments.”...0 -
I'd be happy. We get all the advantages of being in the EU, plus our economic policy is dictated to us by grownups in Brussels without being screwed up by halfwits in Westminster. Win-win.Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
For the many....well as long as you come from the right family.
Other than being characteristically posh, the appointment didn’t seem particularly interesting; however, it has now come to light that Bond’s own son, Jack, has worked in Corbyn’s office – running his Twitter account for a number of years. Bond’s husband is also one of Corbyn’s drivers.
https://order-order.com/2019/10/10/corbyns-new-chief-staff-joins-family-business/0 -
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No, it wouldn't give remainers anything, because we'd have left the EU.RobD said:
I guess the difference is it gives remainers yet another shot if it isn't strictly time-limited.Chris said:
You aren't serious?RobD said:
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?
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Anyone who wants to end freedom of movement wouldn't be happy with it. So it immediately gets labelled as "BINO" by Farage and the Tories lose votes to the Brexit party so the Tory party isn't happy with it either.Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?
Also it means the UK can unilaterally impose a hard border in Ireland with 2 years' notice so in the absence of a backstop arrangement the EU don't like it either.
So this proposal has zero chance, sorry.0 -
I was wondering who would be the first to spot that.OldKingCole said:0 -
Can't Philip Thompson get the Sunderland car workers a job like his? Pontificating for twelve hours a day on how essential the Irish backstop is to their sovereignty?1
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Setting Leave/Remain views aside, one can only hope that faced with events in Syria leading to a new refugee crisis and making it clear that Trump is a c#%t; along with an impending global recession, an emboldened Putin, and whatever fate awaits Hong Kong, common sense has broken out and we and the EU will find a way to accommodate each other and keep the western alliance intact.0
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The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
If Varadkar OK’s an agreement, Berlin and Brussels will sigh with relief, and it will be done. The French want us out anyway, they won’t be a problem.0 -
But while still a member of two of the central aspects of the EU. And as noted previously, that comes with freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the european courts.Chris said:
No, it wouldn't give remainers anything, because we'd have left the EU.RobD said:
I guess the difference is it gives remainers yet another shot if it isn't strictly time-limited.Chris said:
You aren't serious?RobD said:
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
Exactly as the UK could have done before the Brexit referendum.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Anyone who wants to end freedom of movement wouldn't be happy with it. So it immediately gets labelled as "BINO" by Farage and the Tories lose votes to the Brexit party so the Tory party isn't happy with it either.Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?
Also it means the UK can unilaterally impose a hard border in Ireland with 2 years' notice so in the absence of a backstop arrangement the EU don't like it either.
Or exactly as the UK could do three weeks from today!0 -
So that would be the compromise position put forward by the Scottish Government in December 2016? What a vindication for Nicola Sturgeon if that ends up being the position. And what a criminal waste of time and energy from the Tories since then if that's where we end up, when we could have gone straight there.Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
Perhaps Leavers might have thought about that before taking a sledgehammer to Britain's deepest international relationship.Time_to_Leave said:Setting Leave/Remain views aside, one can only hope that faced with events in Syria leading to a new refugee crisis and making it clear that Trump is a c#%t; along with an impending global recession, an emboldened Putin, and whatever fate awaits Hong Kong, common sense has broken out and we and the EU will find a way to accommodate each other and keep the western alliance intact.
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You would hope so... but she does seem somewhat "erratic" these days.Byronic said:
The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.0 -
I think all the above does is show how little you understand about complex multinational supply chains and the economics of manufacturing in the modern world.Time_to_Leave said:
You’re quite young aren’t you? You (and the thread header) are conjuring up the straw man of a world in which it’s not economical to export cars from the U.K. to Europe, and/or impractical to import components. However in your straw man, our own tariffs apparently have no impact on domestic demand, and no U.K. industry can step in and replace components for exports that don’t go to the EU.Gallowgate said:
So much ignorance in this message.Time_to_Leave said:Do you know, I’m old enough to remember when it was three million jobs that relied on not leaving the EU....... Or was that joining the Euro? I forget.
We now mostly seem to be debating 7000 in Sunderland, to which something might happen. Or it might not, depending on potential tax breaks and the need for import substitution.
And, hello.
Nissan is not *just* 7,000 jobs. It supports so many more in the North East. There’s then 20,000 jobs in the supply chain and then many more services on top of that.
If it goes it will just be like closing the pits all over again. More lost generations in the North East.
Basically, the world isn’t as a simple as you’d like it to be; and I’m afraid you’re unlikely to be able to see the end of manufacturing in the U.K. as seems to be your wish, all so you can blame the wicked Leavers.
A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable, and regurgitating bits and pieces of half remembered press releases and scare stories won’t help anyone.
Are you retired?
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Yes - of course, I realise people who don't want us to be part of the single market or the customs union wouldn't be happy.RobD said:
But while still a member of two of the central aspects of the EU. And as noted previously, that comes with freedom of movement and the jurisdiction of the european courts.Chris said:
No, it wouldn't give remainers anything, because we'd have left the EU.RobD said:
I guess the difference is it gives remainers yet another shot if it isn't strictly time-limited.Chris said:
You aren't serious?RobD said:
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?
But then again, what evidence is there that Leave would have won, if that had been part of the question?0 -
They looked into one anothers eyes and both stepped back from the brink!williamglenn said: 0 -
For some people it is not about persuading anybody. They just believe the other side are bad or stupid because they are not in agreement with them.Time_to_Leave said:
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.Anorak said:
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.Beibheirli_C said:
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?Time_to_Leave said:A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
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It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
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While I doubt it would have made a great difference eventually, our WWII position was made much worse, I understand, by the Americans insisting that the N Pacific was an American lake (or some such) and demanding that we agree with them on all matters relating to East Asia.Chris said:
I was wondering who would be the first to spot that.OldKingCole said:
And they thought Chiang Kai-shek was the bees knees.0 -
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I do hope in the interests of everyone a deal can be struck. The spartans and those wanting to revoke may be dismayed but the rest of us can move onwilliamglenn said:0 -
Cash?Philip_Thompson said:0 -
The issue is whether Johnson sticks to whatever he told Leo or has just told him what he wants to hear.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.0 -
Well spotted. Not least because the Scots - even Ms Davidson - got zero attention, let alone consideration.Noo said:
So that would be the compromise position put forward by the Scottish Government in December 2016? What a vindication for Nicola Sturgeon if that ends up being the position. And what a criminal waste of time and energy from the Tories since then if that's where we end up, when we could have gone straight there.Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?
But how long ago it seems now.0 -
Boris is an ambitious man. If he delivers Brexit without breaking the country his reputation will be assured for all time. He will be considered a successful, maybe great prime minister. He will also stomp to victory in any election.GIN1138 said:
That’s quite a prize.
It would also give him eternal bragging rights over his posher Eton rival, David Cameron.0 -
So what was more important that it was worth knowingly making themselves worse off? Please enlighten us.Time_to_Leave said:
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.
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Off topic: one for the engineers on here.
Does a nuclear power plant require the use of petrol?0 -
The 3 C's.Richard_Nabavi said:
Cash?Philip_Thompson said:
Better giving cash to Ireland than Hungary.0 -
Irish nationality of those in NI, which is presently being disregarded by the UK Gmt if they are of dual nationality?Richard_Nabavi said:
Cash?Philip_Thompson said:0 -
Still, no-one with even a modicum of intelligence voted leave thinking they were going to be better off financially, if they did they were very thick indeed. No issue voting for leave for whatever reason but insane if it was to be better off financially.148grss said:
I mean, the people on the TV said so, and made them feel better. It isn't about being thick, lots of smart people voted Leave. It's about feeling helpless and seeing something that could mean change and going for that change.malcolmg said:
They must have been pretty thick to think it would make things better.148grss said:
"None of them voted on economic grounds." - I KNOW this isn't true, because I have spoken to Leave voters who say they voted to make the country richer, to give that money to the NHS and to get better trade deals and better lives.Time_to_Leave said:
You really don’t get the other point of view do you?nichomar said:
So the sunlit uplands were only for the mega rich whilst the rest of them get to revel in kicking the establishment in the bollocks. I hope it will be worth it.Time_to_Leave said:
People didn’t vote leave because they thought they’d be better off. Until you understand that, you won’t understand how the other side of the argument thinks. You might not care - but you should, if you want to persuade anyone.Anorak said:
"Unpleasant but Manageable" should be the new Leave slogan, along with "Not as bad as the Second World War". Hearts and minds.Beibheirli_C said:
And you wonder why some people have no desire to have anything to do with it?Time_to_Leave said:A No Deal scenario will be unpleasant, but manageable...
For many of us, not being tied to an organisation like the EU politically is a point of principle. I’d have been happy with EFTA, EEA at a push, but never a Customs Union.
For others it was immigration.
For others still it was “my like can’t be worse I want to pull the system down”.
None of them voted on economic grounds. The negotiations are making it clear it will have to be no deal.
It only takes 2% of the electorate to have voted Leave for that reason alone to take away the majority of Leave.0 -
I blame the Kurds for all that.OldKingCole said:
While I doubt it would have made a great difference eventually, our WWII position was made much worse, I understand, by the Americans insisting that the N Pacific was an American lake (or some such) and demanding that we agree with them on all matters relating to East Asia.Chris said:
I was wondering who would be the first to spot that.OldKingCole said:
And they thought Chiang Kai-shek was the bees knees.0 -
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.0 -
A more serious answer: From the joint statement:Philip_Thompson said:
Their discussion concentrated on the challenges of customs and consent.
They also discussed the potential to strengthen bilateral relations, including on Northern Ireland.
I'm not quite sure what they mean by strengthening bilateral relations, but has it perhaps got something to do with the Stormont deadlock?0 -
If he is he needs to see a doctorChris said:
You aren't serious?RobD said:
Wasn't that the gist of May's deal with the transition period?Chris said:OK - here's my stab at a withdrawal agreement. We leave the EU but we remain in the single market and the customs union. We can leave those with two years' notice, or earlier by agreement.
Who wouldn't be happy with that, and why?0 -
To get the staff into the place. And (more likely diesel?) for the emergency generators, flooding pumps, one would think.rottenborough said:Off topic: one for the engineers on here.
Does a nuclear power plant require the use of petrol?0 -
It requires lubricants.rottenborough said:Off topic: one for the engineers on here.
Does a nuclear power plant require the use of petrol?
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I think the worry about the reliability of the petrol generators at Chernobyl the cause of the accident there.rottenborough said:Off topic: one for the engineers on here.
Does a nuclear power plant require the use of petrol?0 -
Yes that’s my reading. Perhaps they foresee the British Irish council, or something similar, having a double veto on any future changes. I.e. finesse the problem away with constructive ambiguity. As per the first GFARichard_Nabavi said:
A more serious answer: From the joint statement:Philip_Thompson said:
Their discussion concentrated on the challenges of customs and consent.
They also discussed the potential to strengthen bilateral relations, including on Northern Ireland.
I'm not quite sure what they mean by strengthening bilateral relations, but has it perhaps got something to do with the Stormont deadlock?0 -
The media clearly want the negotiations to crash and burn .
You could almost see the huge disappointment as they begrudgingly reported the progress .
I think the issue going forward is going to be the DUP . The Consent mechanism which basically game them a veto isn’t going to happen .
More likely the default will be continued alignment not Stormont having to vote to continue it.
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Go Boris! Go Leo! They may go down as the first great Anglo-Irish statesmen of the 21st century if they pull this off.0
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Back-ups to the back-up jennies are run on diesel. But they're only used if you're deep, DEEP in the mire already.Tabman said:
It requires lubricants.rottenborough said:Off topic: one for the engineers on here.
Does a nuclear power plant require the use of petrol?0 -
Fair play, that makes a refreshing change from the usual 'in the end the EU is going to shat all over Ireland & Leo' Brexiteer fare. Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union.Byronic said:
The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
If Varadkar OK’s an agreement, Berlin and Brussels will sigh with relief, and it will be done. The French want us out anyway, they won’t be a problem.0 -
A rare moment of Pb concord!Stark_Dawning said:Go Boris! Go Leo! They may go down as the first great Anglo-Irish statesmen of the 21st century if they pull this off.
Go Boris. Go Leo.0 -
Breaking news
Chris Williamson loses high court bid to be re-instated to the labour party following anti semitism allegations0 -
"Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union."Theuniondivvie said:
Fair play, that makes a refreshing change from the usual 'in the end the EU is going to shat all over Ireland & Leo' Brexiteer fare. Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union.Byronic said:
The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
If Varadkar OK’s an agreement, Berlin and Brussels will sigh with relief, and it will be done. The French want us out anyway, they won’t be a problem.
Did you really mean to post that sentence?
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Frankly I don’t care if Johnson gloats if he gets a deal .
I said before I can’t stand him however if he gets a deal then fine, I’ll give him credit for that .
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The good news keeps coming!Big_G_NorthWales said:Breaking news
Chris Williamson loses high court bid to be re-instated to the labour party following anti semitism allegations0 -
Given the govt is already 45 short of a majority, the DUP can do one on this issue. I suspect a great many erstwhile (and future) DUP voters would say the same thing.nico67 said:The media clearly want the negotiations to crash and burn .
You could almost see the huge disappointment as they begrudgingly reported the progress .
I think the issue going forward is going to be the DUP . The Consent mechanism which basically game them a veto isn’t going to happen .
More likely the default will be continued alignment not Stormont having to vote to continue it.0 -
Did you really not get my fairly explicit point?blueblue said:
"Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union."Theuniondivvie said:
Fair play, that makes a refreshing change from the usual 'in the end the EU is going to shat all over Ireland & Leo' Brexiteer fare. Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union.Byronic said:
The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
If Varadkar OK’s an agreement, Berlin and Brussels will sigh with relief, and it will be done. The French want us out anyway, they won’t be a problem.
Did you really mean to post that sentence?0 -
Also, if boris passes a deal, Corbyn will lose the next election badly, and will retire under a cloud, and Labour can then get a sane, decent leader, and you can expect to triumph in 2024.nico67 said:Frankly I don’t care if Johnson gloats if he gets a deal .
I said before I can’t stand him however if he gets a deal then fine, I’ll give him credit for that .
A deal is win win win win win, for all of us.0 -
I think it's because s/he can't see 'country' in a British context as meaning other than the UK.Theuniondivvie said:
Did you really not get my fairly explicit point?blueblue said:
"Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union."Theuniondivvie said:
Fair play, that makes a refreshing change from the usual 'in the end the EU is going to shat all over Ireland & Leo' Brexiteer fare. Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union.Byronic said:
The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
If Varadkar OK’s an agreement, Berlin and Brussels will sigh with relief, and it will be done. The French want us out anyway, they won’t be a problem.
Did you really mean to post that sentence?0 -
Cmon. Do it.williamglenn said:0 -
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
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If you think the far left would loosen their claws on the party just because Steptoe stood down, I have a bridge to sell you.Byronic said:
Also, if boris passes a deal, Corbyn will lose the next election badly, and will retire under a cloud, and Labour can then get a sane, decent leader, and you can expect to triumph in 2024.nico67 said:Frankly I don’t care if Johnson gloats if he gets a deal .
I said before I can’t stand him however if he gets a deal then fine, I’ll give him credit for that .
A deal is win win win win win, for all of us.1 -
The chap on the Graun feed said perhaps the same thing a moment ago -SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
"Given that Leo Varadkar spent a lot of time talking to Boris Johnson one-to-one, some of us are wondering if his experience of a Johnson negotiation will end up similar to Damian Green’s."1 -
Yep, Chernobyl had diesel back up generators, much good that it did them.Carnyx said:
To get the staff into the place. And (more likely diesel?) for the emergency generators, flooding pumps, one would think.rottenborough said:Off topic: one for the engineers on here.
Does a nuclear power plant require the use of petrol?0 -
I think you are forgetting the Lib Dems ?Byronic said:
Also, if boris passes a deal, Corbyn will lose the next election badly, and will retire under a cloud, and Labour can then get a sane, decent leader, and you can expect to triumph in 2024.nico67 said:Frankly I don’t care if Johnson gloats if he gets a deal .
I said before I can’t stand him however if he gets a deal then fine, I’ll give him credit for that .
A deal is win win win win win, for all of us.0 -
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.0 -
Yep, sounds lke Johnson did not read his briefs ...
https://twitter.com/PatLeahyIT/status/11823171107075932180 -
Nobody tell Cummings what's going on.Byronic said:
Cmon. Do it.williamglenn said:
Turn off WiFi in Downing Street now.0 -
Good - fingers crossed for a dealwilliamglenn said:0 -
If Johnson gets a deal , even you will have to give him some credit.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
As would I , as I thought no deal , was the plan.0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, will that happen, or will the fool in Number Ten go for an NI-only customs union arrangement, introducing a customs barrier within UK territory?0
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Small countries having a statutory place, opinion and power in the larger union
Small countries that have respect, a statutory position, opinion and meaningful power in the larger union....blueblue said:
"Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union."Theuniondivvie said:
Fair play, that makes a refreshing change from the usual 'in the end the EU is going to shat all over Ireland & Leo' Brexiteer fare. Good to know that occasionally small countries can be made more powerful by being part of a union.Byronic said:
The German position is almost entirely dictated by Ireland. Dublin has never been, and will never be, so powerful.GIN1138 said:
Angela could say Nien.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
If Varadkar OK’s an agreement, Berlin and Brussels will sigh with relief, and it will be done. The French want us out anyway, they won’t be a problem.
Did you really mean to post that sentence?0 -
Unfortnately, Johnson would have to row back, this is the problem,. There is no deal he can agree with the EU that will not slit te Tories and turbocharge the BXP. Cummings knows this. He will not allow it.Pulpstar said:
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
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Both sides need to turn in their ultras, and muzzle them. Once and for all. Leavers need to put Farage and Francois and the ERG in a metaphorical sack, to be thrown in the Severn.Anorak said:
Given the govt is already 45 short of a majority, the DUP can do one on this issue. I suspect a great many erstwhile (and future) DUP voters would say the same thing.nico67 said:The media clearly want the negotiations to crash and burn .
You could almost see the huge disappointment as they begrudgingly reported the progress .
I think the issue going forward is going to be the DUP . The Consent mechanism which basically game them a veto isn’t going to happen .
More likely the default will be continued alignment not Stormont having to vote to continue it.
But the Remainers need to do the same, to Blair and Swinson and fucking Jolyon fucking Maugham. They need to be put in a box, and the box should be left by the M401 -
Glad nobody is extrapolating from a tweet.Pulpstar said:
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
Labour and LD fury if Boris does get near a deal will be of the charts Btw.0 -
There's existing checks in the Irish sea on agri stuff anyway so it'd just mean a few more of those.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, will that happen, or will the fool in Number Ten go for an NI-only customs union arrangement, introducing a customs barrier within UK territory?
If the deal is despised by both Farage and AC Grayling, our work is done.0 -
Oh great, so the pendulum has swung back from "an outcome which the ERG/DUP can agree to but Ireland can't" to "an outcome which Ireland can agree to but the ERG/DUP can't".williamglenn said:
Maybe this is why they call Johnson "Britain Trump" - because he has the mental capacity of a goldfish and just ends up agreeing with whoever he's talking to at the time.3 -
To say nothing of the fury of the Brexiteers.TGOHF2 said:
Glad nobody is extrapolating from a tweet.Pulpstar said:
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
Labour and LD fury if Boris does get near a deal will be of the charts Btw.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1182318598926327810?s=210 -
I would be deighted if he gets a deal, genuinely. But I just do nt see how it happens. It would split the Tories and be a gift to the BXP. I just cannot see Johnson doing that. If he does, he will show himself to be putting country first and people like me will have been proved utterly wrong about him.Yorkcity said:
If Johnson gets a deal , even you will have to give him some credit.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
As would I , as I thought no deal , was the plan.
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A deal is of course terrible news for Labour . However I’m looking at the longer term picture .Byronic said:
Also, if boris passes a deal, Corbyn will lose the next election badly, and will retire under a cloud, and Labour can then get a sane, decent leader, and you can expect to triumph in 2024.nico67 said:Frankly I don’t care if Johnson gloats if he gets a deal .
I said before I can’t stand him however if he gets a deal then fine, I’ll give him credit for that .
A deal is win win win win win, for all of us.
A no deal rupture will fracture EU relations for years , the country will never get close to any kind of more unified position.
I’m as pro EU as they come however there’s simply no way back now , too much has happened and the EU don’t want to be a political football in every UK general election .
Opposition parties need to start thinking about what they’ll do if Brexit happens with a deal .
I want a strong close EU relationship with preferential treatment for EU nationals and UK nationals . Also I want to see continued close links with research , Erasmus etc.
A party that promises that will get my vote , I’m not interested in rejoin . Way into the future that might happen but I think it’s a vote loser now , even many Remainers are going to think really !
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I think if Johnson comes away with a deal, any deal he's basically won :
Either the Commons accepts the deal in which case we're sorted. Or it rejects it and gives Johnson every excuse needed to head to leaving without a deal on the 31st.0 -
Yes. This will be the end of Trump. Not Ukraine or Giuliani or pee-gate or Epstein. It will be his grotesque betrayal of the Kurds which makes Americans look cowardly, unmanly and villainous. It will enrage his core vote, eg Fox Newsrottenborough said:2 -
Yes everyone losing their minds over a meeting with a tweet - god help us all.williamglenn said:
To say nothing of the fury of the Brexiteers.TGOHF2 said:
Glad nobody is extrapolating from a tweet.Pulpstar said:
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
Labour and LD fury if Boris does get near a deal will be of the charts Btw.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1182318598926327810?s=210 -
So long as it has a consent mechanism I see no problem with that. Consent must be there though.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, will that happen, or will the fool in Number Ten go for an NI-only customs union arrangement, introducing a customs barrier within UK territory?
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It's hard to see any deal acceptable to Ireland and to the EU as a whole being acceptable to the ERG, and also any deal negotiated by Boris as being acceptable to Labour. Therefore, it is very hard to see any deal passing in this parliament. That being the case, Boris is going have to break his do-or-die pledge, or at least acquiesce to allowing the Benn Act to break it for him, and then call an election where he stands on a manifesto of ratifying the new, shiny Boris deal. If he can achieve that, and get a majority to implement it, he'll have gently untied the Gordian Knot.Pulpstar said:
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.
But can he get that past the Conservative Party in its current state? And would he get his majority if he's broken his do-or-die pledge and agreed to a deal which Farage and the heavies will merrily be throwing rocks at?0 -
Or maybe Dyson just aren't a big boy in this field?TGOHF2 said:Maybe petrol ain’t dead yet..
https://twitter.com/markabroad/status/1182318196449263621?s=21
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Bloody Leavers, always letting people down with their promises.TGOHF2 said:Maybe petrol ain’t dead yet..
https://twitter.com/markabroad/status/1182318196449263621?s=210 -
The Irish journalists I've learned to take seriously all say there has been real movement and seem surprised how well it's gone. *But* that's because they say the UK side has moved substantially on customs, consent and future relationship.0
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Who cares what Lilico thinks. It's whether enough MPs buy any deal.TGOHF2 said:
Yes everyone losing their minds over a meeting with a tweet - god help us all.williamglenn said:
To say nothing of the fury of the Brexiteers.TGOHF2 said:
Glad nobody is extrapolating from a tweet.Pulpstar said:
It's not really a concern if Varadkar has managed to somehow hoodwink Johnson into presenting May's deal back to the Commons again, more party time at Vardy's house.SouthamObserver said:
My concern is that Johnson has not read briefs and has agreed stuff with Varadkar that he has not properly understood and not yet run past Cummings.Byronic said:
It’s oft ignored that Cummings is a soft Brexiteer. He also despises Farage.SouthamObserver said:
It will be interesting to find out whether Cummings was present at any stage. Anything Johnson agrees will have to get past him.Byronic said:The guardian is certainly painting this as a breakthrough.
The two leaders have dangerously raised everyone’s hopes, if they don’t follow through.
Labour and LD fury if Boris does get near a deal will be of the charts Btw.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1182318598926327810?s=210
