politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A confidence vote to get rid of PM Johnson could happen next w
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Politicians say all sorts of things, it's what they achieve and how they conduct themselves in govt that counts. Bevan has a pretty good record, he certainly could work with others. He didn't, for example, have to close down parliament to force his narrow view on the country.Foxy said:
You said "Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'"ydoethur said:
Given that the country was almost exactly split between Labour and the Conservatives at the time, that is a distinction without a difference.DecrepitJohnL said:
Bevan said the Tory Party was "lower than vermin".ydoethur said:
Thatcher, Home, Wilson and Attlee were all accused of governing in the interests only of their own supporters. Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'Jonathan said:Sure, yet previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country. This government is unique in that it does not care one iota about anyone else. Not only that it sets out to antagonise then.
Heck, we could even go back to Balfour's education Act if you wish.
That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
https://tidesofhistory.wordpress.com/2018/07/03/lower-than-vermin-the-story-of-bevans-quote-that-lives-on/
And tends to support my point rather than yours...
So quite a difference. What about middle class Labour voters for example?
Indeed Bevan described the Tory party as lower than vermin, not Tory voters.0 -
Is there going to ever be any Boris deal and if his cackhanded ideas even manage to get shown to EU, what hope they will not just laugh at the paucity of his ideas, never mind it ever getting back to UK for a vote.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.0 -
Nigel Farage confirms on Sophy Ridge he will stand at the next general election for the Brexit Party but will not confirm for which seat until the last moment0
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Sorry, that's a Government of National Asking for an Extension which asks for an extension then calls an election, as opposed to a GNU (Gnu's Not Unity) which would stick around and try to do things.Anabobazina said:
How do you end up with ‘ten more years’, and what in God’s name is a gonafae??edmundintokyo said:Although I panned the idea of a Corbyn mini-me it occurs to me that you have to think about Team Corbyn's moves in the context of the Labour succession.
If Corbyn can say, OK, I know other parties have reservations about me but I could support X, then X becomes PM whether of a GoNAfaE or a GNU, that person is then a shoo-in for next Labour leader. So they move into Number 10, Corbyn resigns, Team Corbyn has just regenerated with another 10 years in charge of Labour, and also better propects for the GE.
A Corbynite gets 10 years by losing the first election immediately but that's the last guy's fault, losing the second one by less than expected and thus surviving, and finally losing a third one after which they are replaced, potentially by another Corbynite, in which case the whole glorious cycle again repeats.0 -
is it possible to stand in more than one seat? I am thinking not but ...0
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That's one reason why there were very few middle class Labour voters in 1950-51. And that is why they lost in 1951, for example, despite winning the popular vote. They piled up huge votes in save seats and lost pretty much every marginal.Foxy said:
You said "Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'"ydoethur said:
Given that the country was almost exactly split between Labour and the Conservatives at the time, that is a distinction without a difference.DecrepitJohnL said:
Bevan said the Tory Party was "lower than vermin".ydoethur said:
Thatcher, Home, Wilson and Attlee were all accused of governing in the interests only of their own supporters. Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'Jonathan said:Sure, yet previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country. This government is unique in that it does not care one iota about anyone else. Not only that it sets out to antagonise then.
Heck, we could even go back to Balfour's education Act if you wish.
That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
https://tidesofhistory.wordpress.com/2018/07/03/lower-than-vermin-the-story-of-bevans-quote-that-lives-on/
And tends to support my point rather than yours...
So quite a difference. What about middle class Labour voters for example?
Indeed Bevan described the Tory party as lower than vermin, not Tory voters.
Anyway, to get back to the original point, it was an example of somebody actively antagonising the other side while rewarding his followers. Bevan was of course not PM, but he was still a figure interested in rewarding his mates and bugger the rest. Like almost every government in this country.
I have to go. Have a good morning.0 -
That's possible.malcolmg said:
Is there going to ever be any Boris deal and if his cackhanded ideas even manage to get shown to EU, what hope they will not just laugh at the paucity of his ideas, never mind it ever getting back to UK for a vote.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.
But anyone who thinks that might be the case should be willing to give Boris enough time to fail.0 -
But not no deal Brexit leave which is the point I was seeking to make.Gasman said:Yet more remain twisting of principles with this "100% of the spoils" nonsense. Because Leave only got 52% we somehow shouldn't leave? Presumably if Remain had won 52% of the vote you'd have been arguing we should leave, at least a bit?!
It was a binary decision, leave or remain. Leave won.0 -
Wales try v Australia0
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Working class was probably 70%+ of the population at that time, but there have always been middle class Labour voters. Clement Attlee for example!ydoethur said:
That's one reason why there were very few middle class Labour voters in 1950-51.Foxy said:
You said "Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'"ydoethur said:
Given that the country was almost exactly split between Labour and the Conservatives at the time, that is a distinction without a difference.DecrepitJohnL said:
Bevan said the Tory Party was "lower than vermin".ydoethur said:
Thatcher, Home, Wilson and Attlee were all accused of governing in the interests only of their own supporters. Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'Jonathan said:Sure, yet previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country. This government is unique in that it does not care one iota about anyone else. Not only that it sets out to antagonise then.
Heck, we could even go back to Balfour's education Act if you wish.
That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
https://tidesofhistory.wordpress.com/2018/07/03/lower-than-vermin-the-story-of-bevans-quote-that-lives-on/
And tends to support my point rather than yours...
So quite a difference. What about middle class Labour voters for example?
Indeed Bevan described the Tory party as lower than vermin, not Tory voters.0 -
You have to remember that this pressure is coming from the SNP. from their point of view there are two beneficial outcomes.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.
1) It all ends up in a mess and we leave with no-deal which allows them to say "look at the disaster that is Westminster, wouldn't it be better to be rejoining the EU with an independent Scotland?"
2) They pressure the LibDems into moving their position so that No-Deal doesn't happen and they can then say "Look, we managed to prevent the nasty Tories from crashing us out of the EU without a deal"
I don't think that they care either way what happens. For the LibDems there is a danger of being seen to move too soon.
The game of chicken continues0 -
There is no Boris Deal.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.2 -
If Boris does lose a VONC this week then the opposition have 14 days to decide which of Corbyn, Beckett, Clarke or Bercow will be PM, probably in that order otherwise we will be straight into a general election campaign. As Leader of the Opposition Boris would of course VONC the new PM as soon as possible too0
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Sir Bernard Ingham says Boris would win a general election even from jail
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1184008/boris-johnson-brexit-news-tory-party-conference-election-latest-polls-labour
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You sound frightened.Foxy said:
There is no Boris Deal.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.
We will see when the time comes.0 -
60% of voters voted for the Tories and LDs in 2010, the Coalition of 2010-2015 is therefore the only government we have had since WW2 under FPTP over 50% of voters have voted for.ydoethur said:
No. Anything but. That's what they should do. I am just pointing out that your claim 'previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country' was a Liberal Democrat slogan.Jonathan said:
Do you disagree that this govt needs to look to the 68M rather than the 17M?ydoethur said:
Thatcher, Home, Wilson and Attlee were all accused of governing in the interests only of their own supporters. Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'Jonathan said:Sure, yet previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country. This government is unique in that it does not care one iota about anyone else. Not only that it sets out to antagonise then.
Heck, we could even go back to Balfour's education Act if you wish.
Unfortunately partly because our system rewards those who can consolidate their base and reach out just a little beyond it, politicians reward their own followers and ignore the rest. That's been true of pretty well every British government in history. Oddly, I would argue the most extreme example was Blair, although he concealed it expertly behind a facade of platitudes.
The exception would arguably have been the Coalition, but unfortunately while most of their ideas looked excellent in paper they have proven utterly disastrous in practice (an exception being tuition fees, which didn't even look good on paper).
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Every party activist nicks other party's leaflets if they are stupid enough to leave them in the porch or still in the letter boxMattW said:FPT:
Naughty. How dare they steal their campaign techniques from the Lib Dems.williamglenn said:Tory boys on tour.
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1178081653018767360?s=21
https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/resources/images/9804785.png
Remarkably (or not), the chap is a member of the Overview and Scrutiny committee of St Helens Council.
"Cllr Smith has since apologised for taking the leaflets.
He told the Local Democracy Reporting Service that he removed two Labour leaflets from two properties that were in “poor condition” before pushing his own through the letterbox."0 -
Mais non, no-one at all voted for the coalition. Zero per cent.HYUFD said:
60% of voters voted for the Tories and LDs in 2010, the Coalition of 2010-2015 is therefore the only government we have had since WW2 under FPTP over 50% of voters have voted for.ydoethur said:
No. Anything but. That's what they should do. I am just pointing out that your claim 'previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country' was a Liberal Democrat slogan.Jonathan said:
Do you disagree that this govt needs to look to the 68M rather than the 17M?ydoethur said:
Thatcher, Home, Wilson and Attlee were all accused of governing in the interests only of their own supporters. Bevan infamously said anyone who was not a Labour working class voter was 'lower than vermin.'Jonathan said:Sure, yet previous governments once elected set out to govern not only for those elected them but the whole country. This government is unique in that it does not care one iota about anyone else. Not only that it sets out to antagonise then.
Heck, we could even go back to Balfour's education Act if you wish.
Unfortunately partly because our system rewards those who can consolidate their base and reach out just a little beyond it, politicians reward their own followers and ignore the rest. That's been true of pretty well every British government in history. Oddly, I would argue the most extreme example was Blair, although he concealed it expertly behind a facade of platitudes.
The exception would arguably have been the Coalition, but unfortunately while most of their ideas looked excellent in paper they have proven utterly disastrous in practice (an exception being tuition fees, which didn't even look good on paper).1 -
Not frightened at all, just able to see the bleeding obvious.another_richard said:
You sound frightened.Foxy said:
There is no Boris Deal.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.
We will see when the time comes.
It is May's Deal or No Deal. My money is on No Deal.0 -
Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
There was always a spectrum of 'leave' to which anyone could sign-up to. that is from the very soft stay in the single market and customs union but leave the Parliament etc all the way to leaving everything and not having any trade deal at all with the EU. In spite of what the ERG and Brexit party will tell you these are all leaving the political union that is the EU and there are many forms of these which could have been agreed to.Gasman said:Yet more remain twisting of principles with this "100% of the spoils" nonsense. Because Leave only got 52% we somehow shouldn't leave? Presumably if Remain had won 52% of the vote you'd have been arguing we should leave, at least a bit?!
It was a binary decision, leave or remain. Leave won.
What the 100% of the spoils is saying is that the result was very close and they are taking the UK out on the hardest of Brexits. I can understand where TM came from in the beginning but it is difficult to see how it can be sustainable to take the UK out on the hardest of brexits when 48% (which is a sizeable minority) voted for the exact opposite. A sensible brexit would get the support of a large proportion of both sides of the divides (while the extremes will never be happy).
Personally what I suspect will happen after a no-deal brexit is that the Labour Manifesto of, say, 2024 will contain a pledge to join a customs union and have alignment to the single market. Over time there will be a new balance but the remain side will push us back.0 -
We will see.Foxy said:
Not frightened at all, just able to see the bleeding obvious.another_richard said:
You sound frightened.Foxy said:
There is no Boris Deal.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.
We will see when the time comes.
It is May's Deal or No Deal. My money is on No Deal.
I think Boris needs to produce something or the last year has achieved nothing more than to replace May with Boris.0 -
Boris on Marr now0
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Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
What pearls of wisdom will come forth, I wonder.HYUFD said:Boris on Marr now
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Digging a hole so deep that I assume he's on his way to China to build a Trade TunnelHYUFD said:Boris on Marr now
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No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
There is no Boris deal because there has been no agreement with the EU. It appears that they have something to propose to the EU but whether or not they agree to it or not is another thing. we should see during the week.Foxy said:
There is no Boris Deal.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.0 -
You can only in one seat in any election although as happened on Thursday a candidate stood in two by elections on the same night but they were for different authorities.SquareRoot said:is it possible to stand in more than one seat? I am thinking not but ...
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If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Read any newspaper. He's continuing to state that we're leaving on Halloween. His team are suggesting ways he will dodge the law requiring him to get an extensionanother_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
My view, if it comes to that, is that Corbyn will "try" first, and fail (he'd probably get 265 votes, or something like that) and then we move to Beckett/Harman/Benn/Bercow/Hermon etc.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
The risk is we get a similar situation to what happened in March where the Commons voted on "alternatives" but couldn't agree any that got above about 280 votes.
At the moment, a best case for an alternative PM is probably about 315 votes, but it's probably enough given Tory + DUP is sub 300.0 -
while i was sleeping through the news this morning I heard, I think it was in one of the papers, that he was going to try to use some kind of emergency powers to bypass the Benn act.another_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Boris will produce a Tory majority after the next general election then pass the WA with a NI only backstopanother_richard said:
We will see.Foxy said:
Not frightened at all, just able to see the bleeding obvious.another_richard said:
You sound frightened.Foxy said:
There is no Boris Deal.another_richard said:
Yes.No_Offence_Alan said:I know "spirit" went out of Westminster politics quite a while ago, but isn't a VoNC at this point against the spirit of the Benn act?
Shouldn't the HoC first vote on Johnson's "deal" (if he gets one) beforehand?
It gives the impression that they are frightened of a BorisDeal.
We will see when the time comes.
It is May's Deal or No Deal. My money is on No Deal.
I think Boris needs to produce something or the last year has achieved nothing more than to replace May with Boris.0 -
He has been known to say things that are not trueRochdalePioneers said:
Read any newspaper. He's continuing to state that we're leaving on Halloween. His team are suggesting ways he will dodge the law requiring him to get an extensionanother_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Well if its in a newspaper it must be true.spudgfsh said:
while i was sleeping through the news this morning I heard, I think it was in one of the papers, that he was going to try to use some kind of emergency powers to bypass the Benn act.another_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
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He has to be seen to try at least once. following that anything can happenCasino_Royale said:
My view, if it comes to that, is that Corbyn will "try" first, and fail (he'd probably get 265 votes, or something like that) and then we move to Beckett/Harman/Benn/Bercow/Hermon etc.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
The risk is we get a similar situation to what happened in March where the Commons voted on "alternatives" but couldn't agree any that got above about 280 votes.
At the moment, a best case for an alternative PM is probably about 315 votes, but it's probably enough given Tory + DUP is sub 300.0 -
Hartlepool. They have 6 BXP + 1 Fash councillor. So it's proven to be a sinkhole full of thick twats and thereby fertile ground for NG's brand of double breasted nonsense.HYUFD said:Nigel Farage confirms on Sophy Ridge he will stand at the next general election for the Brexit Party but will not confirm for which seat until the last moment
1 -
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
So you don't have any evidence.RochdalePioneers said:
Read any newspaper. He's continuing to state that we're leaving on Halloween. His team are suggesting ways he will dodge the law requiring him to get an extensionanother_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Corbyn has the right to try 1st as Leader of the Opposition. And he will fail. Having started the 14 day countdown minds will be focused - they cant not agree on *someone*. I expectbthat any candidate will fail at 1st attemot. But then someone will drop out and we get to a unity candidate. Who becomes PM and stops Brexit.spudgfsh said:
He has to be seen to try at least once. following that anything can happenCasino_Royale said:
My view, if it comes to that, is that Corbyn will "try" first, and fail (he'd probably get 265 votes, or something like that) and then we move to Beckett/Harman/Benn/Bercow/Hermon etc.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
The risk is we get a similar situation to what happened in March where the Commons voted on "alternatives" but couldn't agree any that got above about 280 votes.
At the moment, a best case for an alternative PM is probably about 315 votes, but it's probably enough given Tory + DUP is sub 300.0 -
Boris says he will not do any deals with Farage0
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Someone yesterday was doing the perennial whine that "86% of votes cast in 2017 were for parties pledging to implement Brexit"
I noticed when I looked that 94% of MPs in the House of Commons have voted for a Brexit option, so that's nice.
You could argue that MPs who have voted to only implement Brexit with a confirmatory referendum on the Deal might be excluded from that (it's arguable either way) and that takes it to 89% of MPs voting for a Brexit option.
So why haven't we Brexited?
45% of MPs voted for a May's Deal Brexit. 42% of votes were cast for parties promising a May's Deal Brexit (if we're kind and assume that "whatever the Conservative PM comes back with" counts as what was promised in the Tory manifesto.
43% of MPs voted for a closer alignment with the Customs Union/Single Market or a Common Market 2.0. Pleasingly, 43% of votes were cast for manifestos promising either close alignment with these or remaining in the Single Market.
5% of MPs voted for a Deal following a confirmatory referendum. When 7.4% of votes were cast for manifestos promising this.
6% of MPs (25 Conservative, plus 10 DUP and 3 elected as Labour and 1 SNP) haven't voted for any Deal or option for Brexit.
So, while 94% of MPs have voted for Brexit options, we haven't had a majority voting for a single Brexit option.
Not to mention, of course, that the righteous anger and broken manifesto promises isn't honest or real: if it was, then not only would the above have been taken into account, the piles of discarded manifesto promises from the Conservative manifesto in 2017 would have gained some mention or other - which gives away that it's simply an attempt to have an excuse to rationalise "But they're BADDIES!"5 -
especially as the Labour MP is currently suspended from the party. It could also be Boston and Skegness who's MP voted against BrexitDura_Ace said:
Hartlepool. They have 6 BXP + 1 Fash councillor. So it's proven to be a sinkhole full of thick twats and thereby fertile ground for NG's brand of double breasted nonsense.HYUFD said:Nigel Farage confirms on Sophy Ridge he will stand at the next general election for the Brexit Party but will not confirm for which seat until the last moment
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Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
There is a growing fury in the media that the government will not give details on their approach during October.
So we have every turnip headed pundit inventing ever more lurid and bonkers schemes presented as “fact”.
The opposition of course is so cowardly their only approach is pray Boris is bluffing and his polling might drop.
I doubt the rebel alliance has the balls to wait for the deadline - they will panic and do something the voters will hate - like PM Bercow or a GoatC’s.1 -
We do not have a presidential system. It is not candidate X but rather prime minister X leading government X. That is the problem with so-called unity candidates like Clarke or Lady Sylvia: by the time you've sorted out who will be in their governments, we'd have fallen out of the EU anyway.RochdalePioneers said:
Corbyn has the right to try 1st as Leader of the Opposition. And he will fail. Having started the 14 day countdown minds will be focused - they cant not agree on *someone*. I expectbthat any candidate will fail at 1st attemot. But then someone will drop out and we get to a unity candidate. Who becomes PM and stops Brexit.spudgfsh said:
He has to be seen to try at least once. following that anything can happenCasino_Royale said:
My view, if it comes to that, is that Corbyn will "try" first, and fail (he'd probably get 265 votes, or something like that) and then we move to Beckett/Harman/Benn/Bercow/Hermon etc.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
The risk is we get a similar situation to what happened in March where the Commons voted on "alternatives" but couldn't agree any that got above about 280 votes.
At the moment, a best case for an alternative PM is probably about 315 votes, but it's probably enough given Tory + DUP is sub 300.
So it is Corbyn or someone approved by Corbyn heading a minority Labour government.0 -
Asked if he has approached EU heads of state to encourage them to veto an extension, refuses to answer yes or no.0
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Boom! Wales bloody brilliant today.0
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Yes, the Brexit Party got 9,446 votes in the European elections in Hartlepool, more than Labour on 2,465 votes, the LDs on 1,729 votes and the Tories on 910 votes combined.Dura_Ace said:
Hartlepool. They have 6 BXP + 1 Fash councillor. So it's proven to be a sinkhole full of thick twats and thereby fertile ground for NG's brand of double breasted nonsense.HYUFD said:Nigel Farage confirms on Sophy Ridge he will stand at the next general election for the Brexit Party but will not confirm for which seat until the last moment
https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/downloads/file/5197/statement_of_result_-_european_parliamentary_election
Hartlepool was also 69.5% Leave0 -
That's quite a stretchTGOHF2 said:they will panic and do something the voters will hate - like PM Bercow or a GoatC’s.
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Lol. Do I have a letter entitled "How I will break the law" signed by Boris Johnson in blood? No.another_richard said:
So you don't have any evidence.RochdalePioneers said:
Read any newspaper. He's continuing to state that we're leaving on Halloween. His team are suggesting ways he will dodge the law requiring him to get an extensionanother_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
Do I have the evidence of my eyes and ears of what he has said and what his outsiders have said? Yes. Perhaps its all just bluster. But if it IS bluster and he does obey the law and requests an extension he is literally finished as a politician0 -
It will almost certainly be Thurrock as JD-P is one of the only MPs who don't yet have a confirmed BxP candidate standing against here.. It is totally unbelievable that the seat they have always done best in Farage won't go forspudgfsh said:
especially as the Labour MP is currently suspended from the party. It could also be Boston and Skegness who's MP voted against BrexitDura_Ace said:
Hartlepool. They have 6 BXP + 1 Fash councillor. So it's proven to be a sinkhole full of thick twats and thereby fertile ground for NG's brand of double breasted nonsense.HYUFD said:Nigel Farage confirms on Sophy Ridge he will stand at the next general election for the Brexit Party but will not confirm for which seat until the last moment
0 -
What people are forgetting about discussions of FPTP-vs-PR:
If my party benefits from FPTP, it is democratic, better, and just plain right. PR, or any alternative that could damage my party, is undemocratic, bad, and wrong.
[Insert rationalisation here]1 -
If the rabble don’t have their ducks in a row before Johnson resigns, then Corbyn will be first in line, and he will be no-confidenced immediately, which will start the 14-day clock running.HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Rochdale really doesn't like Corbyn so it is either confront the fact he needs Corbyn to help him do what he wants or pretend he can't count. The latter is probably less painful...HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
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Boris isn't going to request an extension, he will resign first.RochdalePioneers said:
Lol. Do I have a letter entitled "How I will break the law" signed by Boris Johnson in blood? No.another_richard said:
So you don't have any evidence.RochdalePioneers said:
Read any newspaper. He's continuing to state that we're leaving on Halloween. His team are suggesting ways he will dodge the law requiring him to get an extensionanother_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
Do I have the evidence of my eyes and ears of what he has said and what his outsiders have said? Yes. Perhaps its all just bluster. But if it IS bluster and he does obey the law and requests an extension he is literally finished as a politician
But even better for him would be if he gets a VONC beforehand.
This is especially so if there isn't the possibility of a BorisDeal.
Which means those people demanding a VONC now are Boris Johnson's useful idiots.0 -
Boris reiterates his support for a points based immigration system as opposed to Labour's backing for full free movement.
He also attacks Labour's plans for a 4 day week and to abolish private schools (despite Corbyn going to prep school) and OFSTED0 -
Boris also hasn’t said he won’t introduce martial law and install his horse as a senator.RochdalePioneers said:
Lol. Do I have a letter entitled "How I will break the law" signed by Boris Johnson in blood? No.another_richard said:
So you don't have any evidence.RochdalePioneers said:
Read any newspaper. He's continuing to state that we're leaving on Halloween. His team are suggesting ways he will dodge the law requiring him to get an extensionanother_richard said:
Explain how it is evident that Boris is going No Deal and ignoring the law.RochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...
Do I have the evidence of my eyes and ears of what he has said and what his outsiders have said? Yes. Perhaps its all just bluster. But if it IS bluster and he does obey the law and requests an extension he is literally finished as a politician
So both must definitely be happening.0 -
World Champions in Waiting 23 Australia & Fiji 8...
Excellent game1 -
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Next week's exclusive: Thatcher would win a ge even while a-moldering in the grave.HYUFD said:Sir Bernard Ingham says Boris would win a general election even from jail
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1184008/boris-johnson-brexit-news-tory-party-conference-election-latest-polls-labour0 -
You don't have to do things in that order. First they just have to pick someone who isn't too awful to get you through the week. One vote - or even just the general vibe as communicated to the palace - is enough to put them in Downing Street and Boris out in his ear.DecrepitJohnL said:
We do not have a presidential system. It is not candidate X but rather prime minister X leading government X. That is the problem with so-called unity candidates like Clarke or Lady Sylvia: by the time you've sorted out who will be in their governments, we'd have fallen out of the EU anyway.
That person is now Prime Minister. They can then immediately request the extension, and *now* you can haggle: If they want to put together a majority to do something other than call an election, they can carve up jobs and make spending promises and push a brexit plan. If that haggling fails, you can let the 14 days tick down and have an election, with the caretaker taking care of things until it's done.
0 -
Is Boris denying his role in naming Arcuri's company Hacker House after the man we now see was a giant among recent prime ministers?Scott_P said:0 -
So does that mean we could go through 5 PMs in a fortnight say eg Boris, Corbyn, Beckett, Clarke and Bercow who each lose a VONC straight away or will the Queen demand they show they can win a confidence vote first before she appoints them? Otherwise I don't think even Italy has gone through PMs that quick!Sandpit said:
If the rabble don’t have their ducks in a row before Johnson resigns, then Corbyn will be first in line, and he will be no-confidenced immediately, which will start the 14-day clock running.HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Surely, given his reputation and the front page of the Sunday Times, Marr should ask the straight question of the PM as to whether there was a sexual relationship with this lady?0
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Now Helen Mirren on Marr after Boris on her new role as Catherine the Great0
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Yes, without Corbyn's backing no new PM has the numbersTheJezziah said:
Rochdale really doesn't like Corbyn so it is either confront the fact he needs Corbyn to help him do what he wants or pretend he can't count. The latter is probably less painful...HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...1 -
Thanks for the detail, this should be made a sticky auto reply to anyone who posts about the 2017 GE being a mandate for Brexit, and therefore the MPs have failed. No, the leaders of the MPs have failed, especially the leaders of the govt.Andy_Cooke said:Someone yesterday was doing the perennial whine that "86% of votes cast in 2017 were for parties pledging to implement Brexit"
I noticed when I looked that 94% of MPs in the House of Commons have voted for a Brexit option, so that's nice.
You could argue that MPs who have voted to only implement Brexit with a confirmatory referendum on the Deal might be excluded from that (it's arguable either way) and that takes it to 89% of MPs voting for a Brexit option.
So why haven't we Brexited?
45% of MPs voted for a May's Deal Brexit. 42% of votes were cast for parties promising a May's Deal Brexit (if we're kind and assume that "whatever the Conservative PM comes back with" counts as what was promised in the Tory manifesto.
43% of MPs voted for a closer alignment with the Customs Union/Single Market or a Common Market 2.0. Pleasingly, 43% of votes were cast for manifestos promising either close alignment with these or remaining in the Single Market.
5% of MPs voted for a Deal following a confirmatory referendum. When 7.4% of votes were cast for manifestos promising this.
6% of MPs (25 Conservative, plus 10 DUP and 3 elected as Labour and 1 SNP) haven't voted for any Deal or option for Brexit.
So, while 94% of MPs have voted for Brexit options, we haven't had a majority voting for a single Brexit option.
Not to mention, of course, that the righteous anger and broken manifesto promises isn't honest or real: if it was, then not only would the above have been taken into account, the piles of discarded manifesto promises from the Conservative manifesto in 2017 would have gained some mention or other - which gives away that it's simply an attempt to have an excuse to rationalise "But they're BADDIES!"1 -
What is utterly clear to anyone who can count is that Jeremy Corbyn does not have the votes to carry the confidence of the house. Lets assume that EVERY opposition MP backed him - including people like John Woodcock, Frank Field etc. That isn't a majority. So he needs the votes of Philip Hammond, Dominic Grieve etc. Which he won't get. Whether I like or don't like someone doesn't change mathematics - this isn't politics is adding.TheJezziah said:
Rochdale really doesn't like Corbyn so it is either confront the fact he needs Corbyn to help him do what he wants or pretend he can't count. The latter is probably less painful...HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.
So after he has lost, it then comes down to which candidate can carry votes from all parties and from the MPs of no party. Clarke or Harman have a claim as Father/Mother of the House so I'd expect discussions formalised around them. If neither of those the Herman, Beckett, Bercow. With the clock running down minds get focused - and yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised to have people say "give Corbyn another chance". It'll be fun.
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The chief objective of a replacement government would be to secure an extension to Article 50. I think it would survive for the 36 hours or so required.Sandpit said:From reading all these comments, does anyone think that a takeover of government by various opposition factions would last more than a day?
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could they go as far as not having a cabinet? The current tory ministers would resign so you can't do continuationedmundintokyo said:
You don't have to do things in that order. First they just have to pick someone who isn't too awful to get you through the week. One vote - or even just the general vibe as communicated to the palace - is enough to put them in Downing Street and Boris out in his ear.DecrepitJohnL said:
We do not have a presidential system. It is not candidate X but rather prime minister X leading government X. That is the problem with so-called unity candidates like Clarke or Lady Sylvia: by the time you've sorted out who will be in their governments, we'd have fallen out of the EU anyway.
That person is now Prime Minister. They can then immediately request the extension, and *now* you can haggle: If they want to put together a majority to do something other than call an election, they can carve up jobs and make spending promises and push a brexit plan. If that haggling fails, you can let the 14 days tick down and have an election, with the caretaker taking care of things until it's done.0 -
But the first PM can request the extension then it doesn’t matterHYUFD said:
So does that mean we could go through 5 PMs in a fortnight say eg Boris, Corbyn, Beckett, Clarke and Bercow who each lose a VONC straight away or will the Queen demand they show they can win a confidence vote first before she appoints them? Otherwise I don't think even Italy has gone through PMs that quick!Sandpit said:
If the rabble don’t have their ducks in a row before Johnson resigns, then Corbyn will be first in line, and he will be no-confidenced immediately, which will start the 14-day clock running.HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Brexiteers did not get 52%, they got 51.9%.
The trouble OGH - and I'm afraid your remainer bias blinds you to do this though it's something I've mentioned before - is what share of the spoils would the remainers have offered if they got 52%, sorry 51.9%? Answer: Nothing.
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Then what ?OblitusSumMe said:
The chief objective of a replacement government would be to secure an extension to Article 50. I think it would survive for the 36 hours or so required.Sandpit said:From reading all these comments, does anyone think that a takeover of government by various opposition factions would last more than a day?
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@Morris_Dancer ‘s tip of Vettel to lead by end of lap 1 currently at 6.4 on Betfair.
Looks like a great punt to me, as Sochi is one of the best tracks in the calendar to get a tow of the start line.
I’d put the odds closer to 3/1, as Mercedes don’t have the tyres or engine to be in the mix. Not a certainty, by any means, as Vettel could always blow his start, but well worth a flutter.1 -
If its for a week, I would have thought a three person cabinet plenty. If for a day, its a waste of time appointing anyone.spudgfsh said:
could they go as far as not having a cabinet? The current tory ministers would resign so you can't do continuationedmundintokyo said:
You don't have to do things in that order. First they just have to pick someone who isn't too awful to get you through the week. One vote - or even just the general vibe as communicated to the palace - is enough to put them in Downing Street and Boris out in his ear.DecrepitJohnL said:
We do not have a presidential system. It is not candidate X but rather prime minister X leading government X. That is the problem with so-called unity candidates like Clarke or Lady Sylvia: by the time you've sorted out who will be in their governments, we'd have fallen out of the EU anyway.
That person is now Prime Minister. They can then immediately request the extension, and *now* you can haggle: If they want to put together a majority to do something other than call an election, they can carve up jobs and make spending promises and push a brexit plan. If that haggling fails, you can let the 14 days tick down and have an election, with the caretaker taking care of things until it's done.0 -
Boris Johnson insisted that he became confused when Jennifer started unzipping his files.0
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I see the Commons are voting on reducing voting age to 16 this week. Presumably whilst the Tories are held up on Virgin West Coast.1
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Surely the Friday morning after Boris gets his landslide he just curtails the extention.nichomar said:
But the first PM can request the extension then it doesn’t matterHYUFD said:
So does that mean we could go through 5 PMs in a fortnight say eg Boris, Corbyn, Beckett, Clarke and Bercow who each lose a VONC straight away or will the Queen demand they show they can win a confidence vote first before she appoints them? Otherwise I don't think even Italy has gone through PMs that quick!Sandpit said:
If the rabble don’t have their ducks in a row before Johnson resigns, then Corbyn will be first in line, and he will be no-confidenced immediately, which will start the 14-day clock running.HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
A VONC now would pass, which gives us 14 days to chose a new PM. Jezbollah will demand it, and won't get it. Lots of screeching about Swinson of course but even with the LibDems on board the numbers aren't there. So they'll have to move on to a different candidate.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Two different scenarios
1 VONC FTPA kicks in so to avoid crash out a VOC required in someone to write the letter.
2 Johnson resigns to avoid writing letter corbyn PM and writes letter before he is NC’d then FTPA kicks in and 14 days starts and then a minimum five week campaign with Corbyn remains as PM and setting the date.0 -
Hmm, maybe you're right. But doesn't the new PM usually do that on their first day? So there must be a period when the PM has changed, but the cabinet posts are either vacant or still filled by their previous occupants. (I guess the latter.)spudgfsh said:
could they go as far as not having a cabinet? The current tory ministers would resign so you can't do continuation
If it really needs doing fast, the quick way is to appoint the Select Committee chairs to their respective ministries, then you just need to slot in a few choices for where they're Tories who won't take the job.1 -
Angela Rayner on Marr says she wants a comprehensive state education system and wants to end taxpayer funding for private schools but will only confiscate their assets if within the law to do so0
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There was a difference between the outcomes of the referendum. one side was the ultimate soft brexit (remain) the other was a sliding scale of leave.FrankBooth said:Brexiteers did not get 52%, they got 51.9%.
The trouble OGH - and I'm afraid your remainer bias blinds you to do this though it's something I've mentioned before - is what share of the spoils would the remainers have offered if they got 52%, sorry 51.9%? Answer: Nothing.
Sensible politicians could have come up with a brexit which satisfied the majority of the population but they would have had to ignore the extremes of Leave with no deal and remain at any cost. Neither of the extremes made it possible for that to happen and they sucked out the moderate middle and killed it. I suspect that the moderate middle is where we will end up but it will be the long term before that happens.0 -
A general electionTGOHF2 said:
Then what ?OblitusSumMe said:
The chief objective of a replacement government would be to secure an extension to Article 50. I think it would survive for the 36 hours or so required.Sandpit said:From reading all these comments, does anyone think that a takeover of government by various opposition factions would last more than a day?
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There will be a perception that remainer MPs are jumping off the cliff now to avoid having to explain why they voted down whatever deal is brought back.
A deal that will be at least as good, but in all likelihood an improvement, on May's deal.
There wouldn't be a plausible excuse for them to have voted it down especially with the hysteria about avoiding no deal.
Cummings had absolutely nailed remainer MP's to the floor in a way which has surprised me.
I look forward to the GE...unlike Labour MP's.1 -
You can read my post on it if you want right at the start. I don't think anyone has the numbers, claiming you can do it without those you don't like is pretty damn optimistic.RochdalePioneers said:
What is utterly clear to anyone who can count is that Jeremy Corbyn does not have the votes to carry the confidence of the house. Lets assume that EVERY opposition MP backed him - including people like John Woodcock, Frank Field etc. That isn't a majority. So he needs the votes of Philip Hammond, Dominic Grieve etc. Which he won't get. Whether I like or don't like someone doesn't change mathematics - this isn't politics is adding.TheJezziah said:
Rochdale really doesn't like Corbyn so it is either confront the fact he needs Corbyn to help him do what he wants or pretend he can't count. The latter is probably less painful...HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.
So after he has lost, it then comes down to which candidate can carry votes from all parties and from the MPs of no party. Clarke or Harman have a claim as Father/Mother of the House so I'd expect discussions formalised around them. If neither of those the Herman, Beckett, Bercow. With the clock running down minds get focused - and yes, I wouldn't be at all surprised to have people say "give Corbyn another chance". It'll be fun.
I don't think Corbyn can do it but I think others will be even further away, there are Labour MPs bound by wanting to continue standing for the party who have to vote for Corbyn but will not have to vote for other people who might risk Brexit in one way or another.
TBH I'm hoping it doesn't come to it because I don't see it working at all. Too many other priorities for parties like the Lib Dems and Change.0 -
He would have to repeal the acts that took us into the EU to do thatMexicanpete said:
Surely the Friday morning after Boris gets his landslide he just curtails the extention.nichomar said:
But the first PM can request the extension then it doesn’t matterHYUFD said:
So does that mean we could go through 5 PMs in a fortnight say eg Boris, Corbyn, Beckett, Clarke and Bercow who each lose a VONC straight away or will the Queen demand they show they can win a confidence vote first before she appoints them? Otherwise I don't think even Italy has gone through PMs that quick!Sandpit said:
If the rabble don’t have their ducks in a row before Johnson resigns, then Corbyn will be first in line, and he will be no-confidenced immediately, which will start the 14-day clock running.HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:Fast changing events hence changes in plan. Its now evident that the PM intends to ignore/bypass the law requiring him to request an extension, which means that MPs now have no choice other than to remove him from office.
MPs hadn't wanted to trigger a VONC for the fear of the 14 day deadline running out. But as Johnson is going No Deal now regardless there is less to fear. Furthermore it will focus the minds of MPs forcing a decision.
Next PM won't be Corbyn. Could be Clarke. Could be Beckett. Entertaining as the idea is can't see it being Bercow. But a challenge IS coming and will succeed. How the Johnson and Corbyn cabals cope sitting alongside each other on the opposition bench across from the emergency government will be fun...0 -
Good question. One would assume that it’s bad form to get Her Majesty involved, but Corbyn isn’t known for his respect for the royal family.HYUFD said:
So does that mean we could go through 5 PMs in a fortnight say eg Boris, Corbyn, Beckett, Clarke and Bercow who each lose a VONC straight away or will the Queen demand they show they can win a confidence vote first before she appoints them? Otherwise I don't think even Italy has gone through PMs that quick!Sandpit said:
If the rabble don’t have their ducks in a row before Johnson resigns, then Corbyn will be first in line, and he will be no-confidenced immediately, which will start the 14-day clock running.HYUFD said:
Without the cabal voting for a new PM then there will likely fail to be a majority for a new PM to replace Boris as it needs comfortably over 300 votes to elect that new PM, thus forcing a general election 14 days after Boris loses a VONCRochdalePioneers said:
I didn't say Labour MPs will abstain. Just the cabal.HYUFD said:
If he abstains then no new PM will be appointed as without Labour frontbencher votes for Clarke, Beckett or Bercow the fact the vast majority of Tory MPs and all DUP MPs will vote against them means they will not win a confidence vote in the Commons and we go straight to a general electionRochdalePioneers said:
No he won't. He'll abstain.HYUFD said:
Corbyn will have to sit on the government benches if he props up Clarke, Beckett or Bercow as PM to implement the extension and watch Boris take his place as Leader of the OppositionRochdalePioneers said:...
I think it goes:
1. Johnson resigns immediately, calls for whoever is in the most likely position to form a government. In the absence of a clear candidate, LotO first in line
2. JC asked to form a government, is immediately voted down by LotO Johnson calling a vote of confidence - this starts the clock.
3. Everyone starts arguing, while Corbyn tries to do as much as possible before he’s forced to resign.
4. Either a clear PM candidate emerges, or we go into an election 14 days after the first VoNC vote, whether that was in Johnson or Corbyn. Whoever is PM at this point remains so for the duration of the campaign under purdah rules.
Complicating things is the letter to be written to the EU, which may also lead Corbyn to resign immediately to avoid signing it (in which case everyone needs to decide very quickly who’s next in line at that point). In that case we get at least three PMs in only a couple of days.
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Where does that happen?Tabman said:
In systems designed for proportional representation the coalition position is negotiated before the electionRobD said:
Not to mention the constant backroom dealing after elections to form a working coalition. Who knows what you are going to end up.MarqueeMark said:
No, it's the consequence of a system that would have been designed to allow minority parties to have a disproportionate voice. It is not just overturning the problems of FPTP, it is twistng the dial even further the other way. The views of the tens of millions suborned to the views of a few million. Which would pull people to the extremes.eristdoof said:
Put a 5% vote share minimum within each country to be allowed any seats in Parliament.MarqueeMark said:
To a system where your power potentially becomes more powerful the less seats you have.ozymandias said:
I never thought I would ever think this but I’m slowly, very slowly coming round to the idea of PR.Noo said:
Yup. I'm 100% rattled by the rise of authoritarianism in this country. You rattle me. You scare the shit out of me. I have no problem admitting that. Anyone who has a passing familiarity with the methods and history of authoritarianism is rightly frightened right now.SunnyJim said:
Hahaha...rattled much?Noo said:
Canvassing for Labour? Why would I do that when I don't even vote for them?
You thick fuck.
But understand this. My fear of the likes of you will not be manifest in capitulation. I will never submit to your stinking, toxic vision of what this country should be. ¡No pasarán!
We need to protect against an authoritarian executive. Absolutely. We also need to protect against an elective dictatorship either in itself or derived from parliament.
The possibility of gaining an absolute majority on as little as 35% of the popular vote is absurd.
Likewise a parliament running from putting itself to a general election as the country is ungovernable is also absurd.
I need more nudging away from FPTP but I’m getting there.
If you want to lie awake with worry for democracy in this country, imagine the power broking that goes on with this possible scenario:
Tories 170,
Labour 150,
LibDems 120,
Brexit 80,
Greens 40,
SNP 20,
NI Unionists 7,
Plaid 6,
Sinn Fein 7,
NI Alliance 4,
National Front 20,
Yorkshire First 8,
Mebyon Kernow 2,
Ratepayers 16.
And if the tories and Labour can only get enough support to win 170 and 150 MPs then that is "the will of the people"0 -
Then either that person or another person makes a plan to get brexit done and gets the various faction leaders to agree, or you have an election, but safe in the knowledge that the election campaign will pass without the PM doing something mental with the prorogative powers to impress the Daily Mail.TGOHF2 said:
Then what ?OblitusSumMe said:
The chief objective of a replacement government would be to secure an extension to Article 50. I think it would survive for the 36 hours or so required.Sandpit said:From reading all these comments, does anyone think that a takeover of government by various opposition factions would last more than a day?
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I think most people are looking forward to an election now, or at least think we should have one. Just some want an extension secured before we have the election.SunnyJim said:There will be a perception that remainer MPs are jumping off the cliff now to avoid having to explain why they voted down whatever deal is brought back.
A deal that will be at least as good, but in all likelihood an improvement, on May's deal.
There wouldn't be a plausible excuse for them to have voted it down especially with the hysteria about avoiding no deal.
Cummings had absolutely nailed remainer MP's to the floor in a way which has surprised me.
I look forward to the GE...unlike Labour MP's.0 -
A successful VONC this week means that Parliament does not want to leave the EU with a deal because it will remove the PM's ability to negotiate one before 19 Oct. This Parliament has no intention of enabling the UK to leave the EU with or without a deal.1
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As with much that was heard and 'approved' at the LAB conference, the actual policy proposal will be watered down, sometimes verging on the timid.HYUFD said:Angela Rayner on Marr says she wants a comprehensive state education system and wants to end taxpayer funding for private schools but will only confiscate their assets if within the law to do so
In this case, yes, just end the tax breaks.0 -
But they make the law...HYUFD said:Angela Rayner on Marr says she wants a comprehensive state education system and wants to end taxpayer funding for private schools but will only confiscate their assets if within the law to do so
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