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SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited September 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Johnson is to fight a successful election campaign he needs to cope with situations like this better

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.codoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    Nice try HYUFD, but it ignores the point that even if we accept the points made by the man should be ignored because he is a Labour activist - which I am not, but let's follow your logic and say we should ignore them - Johnson should still be better at handling these situations than he has been lately. You're the one who tells us how bloody great he is, yet his skills seem a bit rusty.

    You can really tell who is a party activist and who isn't in response to these situations. The urgency of the spinning is subtly different.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    BJ is a charlatan. He could not care one jot about the people who live in this country. All he cares about is himself and his place in No.10. Day in and day out we see why this cretin is not suitable for the position of PM.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Of all the firsts HYUFD could have scored...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited September 2019
    Anabobazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I remember when Cameron got ambushed by a Lib Dem activist with a disabled kid. People said he was terrible handling etc etc etc, but his polling went up.

    I don't think in general the public take to politicians being gotcha'ed in that way or when the media door-stop them.

    Yeah. If a leader stands there and soaks it up the public will generally be sympathetic (I mean its unreasonable to blame any PM for an individuals care falling short of expectations in the same way it would be daft to personally praise the PM if you receive good care)

    What isn't a good look is the May apprach where you never actually come into contact with members of the public and you also want to avoid slagging off the person you've encountered after the event - Like when Gord met up with Mrs Duffy. :D
    Gordo was right about Gillian Duffy though.

    She is a bigot.
    So now you're saying he is a liar for saying afterwards that she wasn't? Or that he was weak and a coward for saying afterward she wasn't even though she was?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    kle4 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I remember when Cameron got ambushed by a Lib Dem activist with a disabled kid. People said he was terrible handling etc etc etc, but his polling went up.

    I don't think in general the public take to politicians being gotcha'ed in that way or when the media door-stop them.

    Yeah. If a leader stands there and soaks it up the public will generally be sympathetic (I mean its unreasonable to blame any PM for an individuals care falling short of expectations in the same way it would be daft to personally praise the PM if you receive good care)

    What isn't a good look is the May apprach where you never actually come into contact with members of the public and you also want to avoid slagging off the person you've encountered after the event - Like when Gord met up with Mrs Duffy. :D
    Gordo was right about Gillian Duffy though.

    She is a bigot.
    So now you're saying he is a liar for saying afterwards that she wasn't?
    The man who saved the world and never took money from Ecclestone is a liar?

    Say it ain't so...
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,120
    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/MatthewOToole2/status/1174403077044088833
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    edited September 2019
    FPT:
    Anabobazina said:

    I have finally seen this hospital tape.

    Why the hell did Boris lie about the press?

    I genuinely don’t understand that. What was the point?

    I think, Mr @Anabobazina, we should consider the possibility that he's a fecking idiot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.codoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    Nice try HYUFD, but it ignores the point that even if we accept the points made by the man should be ignored because he is a Labour activist - which I am not, but let's follow your logic and say we should ignore them - Johnson should still be better at handling these situations than he has been lately. You're the one who tells us how bloody great he is, yet his skills seem a bit rusty.

    You can really tell who is a party activist and who isn't in response to these situations. The urgency of the spinning is subtly different.
    Boris dealt perfectly politely with the rants of this hard-core Corbynista, well done Boris for keeping your cool
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    It just reinforces the message that BJ cannot be trusted. I thought Gordon Brown could never be beaten in terms of lack of honesty and incompetence but the Tories have picked a real lemon with BJ....
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.
    I don't think - no matter who gets educated there - there is any realistic way of reducing class sizes in the state sector to match that ofthe private sector. Christ Church Brecon, one example off the top of my head, has a staff-student ratio of 1:9. Round here, it's about 1:27. So instantly, a tripling of spending on staff would be needed. Plus three times as many classrooms, three times as much admin, three times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,301
    ydoethur said:

    FPT:

    Anabobazina said:

    I have finally seen this hospital tape.

    Why the hell did Boris lie about the press?

    I genuinely don’t understand that. What was the point?

    I think, Mr @Anabobazina, we should consider the possibility that he's a fecking idiot.
    Yep. It was entirely unnecessary, made the episode 10 times worse, and completely transparent. It was a gambit with no advantage whatsoever.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    When you sack all the talented people and have to promote the sycophants...

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1174403427398557696

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1174403429822808064
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Boris is PM meeting the chief executive to see the hospital's needs while leading a Government putting more money into the NHS, Boris has nothing to apologise for
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Labour bag carrier for Thornberry with PPE degree couldn't believe his luck, an opportunity to have a go at a hapless Prime Minister shown round a ward. I hope that the rumour thst he had a radio microphone is unfounded.




  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.
    I don't think - no matter who gets educated there - there is any realistic way of reducing class sizes in the state sector to match that ofthe private sector. Christ Church Brecon, one example off the top of my head, has a staff-student ratio of 1:9. Round here, it's about 1:27. So instantly, a tripling of spending on staff would be needed. Plus three times as many classrooms, three times as much admin, three times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    I would have thought if anything the class sizes would be smaller than 9 as the figure would include boarding staff most of whom in the posher schools don't teach.

    It depends a bit on where you are. Surrey, for example, has less of a problem with SS ratios than Stoke or Hartlepool. Cannock is not Stoke - but nor is it Surrey.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,661
    The_Taxman said:

    BJ is a charlatan. He could not care one jot about the people who live in this country. All he cares about is himself and his place in No.10. Day in and day out we see why this cretin is not suitable for the position of PM.

    Of course he cares. The welfare of the people is what he is all about. That and him being on top.

    Contrast Corbyn. The realisation of the idea is what its all about. Especially that nobody should ever be rich. Corbyns idea falls away if the rich do, and that is that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,301
    kle4 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I remember when Cameron got ambushed by a Lib Dem activist with a disabled kid. People said he was terrible handling etc etc etc, but his polling went up.

    I don't think in general the public take to politicians being gotcha'ed in that way or when the media door-stop them.

    Yeah. If a leader stands there and soaks it up the public will generally be sympathetic (I mean its unreasonable to blame any PM for an individuals care falling short of expectations in the same way it would be daft to personally praise the PM if you receive good care)

    What isn't a good look is the May apprach where you never actually come into contact with members of the public and you also want to avoid slagging off the person you've encountered after the event - Like when Gord met up with Mrs Duffy. :D
    Gordo was right about Gillian Duffy though.

    She is a bigot.
    So now you're saying he is a liar for saying afterwards that she wasn't? Or that he was weak and a coward for saying afterward she wasn't even though she was?
    He was weak and cowardly, no doubt.

    But, she was a bigot.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,043
    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    You mean the guy is suffering from Munchausen syndrome by proxy? Well it's a view...
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/MatthewOToole2/status/1174403077044088833

    Or N-S reunification :smiley:

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.
    I don't think - no matter who gets educated there - there is any realistic way of reducing class sizes in the state sector to match that ofthe private sector. Christ Church Brecon, one example off the top of my head, has a staff-student ratio of 1:9. Round here, it's about 1:27. So instantly, a tripling of spending on staff would be needed. Plus three times as many classrooms, three times as much admin, three times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
    More guido shite
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,301
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.codoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    Nice try HYUFD, but it ignores the point that even if we accept the points made by the man should be ignored because he is a Labour activist - which I am not, but let's follow your logic and say we should ignore them - Johnson should still be better at handling these situations than he has been lately. You're the one who tells us how bloody great he is, yet his skills seem a bit rusty.

    You can really tell who is a party activist and who isn't in response to these situations. The urgency of the spinning is subtly different.
    Boris dealt perfectly politely with the rants of this hard-core Corbynista, well done Boris for keeping your cool
    Indeed, all undermined by a pointless transparent lie about the absence of the press
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/MatthewOToole2/status/1174403077044088833

    Or a Tory majority Government not reliant on the DUP
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,043
    HYUFD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
    Oh my god, it was his ****ing belt! Seriously?
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    surprise.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
    You cannot spin Boris out of this. He was in a hospital for political purposes. He lied about it not being a media event. He was caught on camera telling the bloke 'it was not a media event'! If BJ likes going around hospitals I suggest he does it without a media frenzy.

    I object to it on health grounds as it cannot be much good for the patients being exposed to more germs for no reason. Along with the hospital needing a deep clean perhaps BJ's moral integrity could do with a bit of bleach! :wink:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    HYUFD said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.
    I don't think - no matter who gets educated there - there is any realistic way of reducing class sizes in the state sector to match that ofthe private sector. Christ Church Brecon, one example off the top of my head, has a staff-student ratio of 1:9. Round here, it's about 1:27. So instantly, a tripling of spending on staff would be needed. Plus three times as many classrooms, three times as much admin, three times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
    Or the private schools are not very good. Or can't afford decent maths teachers. Which is also possible.

    I mean, if we're talking about Harrow Comp here that really would be some result. If we're talking about Oxford there are some surprisingly bad private schools in Oxford.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    Guido doing sterling work as the propaganda wing of number 10. Should really count as party spending.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
  • basicbridgebasicbridge Posts: 674
    It was a set up by a Labour activist. Ignore.

    Lots of piss and wind about this sort of thing ion PB, but BJ's ratings never seem to take much of a hit.

    Clue : THE PUBLIC DONT CARE.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
    "Just a fly in the ointment, HYUFD. The monkey in the wrench. The pain in the arse."
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,188
    FPT Johnson is so egregiously dishonest and incompetent that even the lowest information voter can't fail to be aware of it. Yet it doesn't make any difference. Johnson will get a deal, won't get a deal, we leave do or die on October 31. None of this matters and nobody believes any of it anyway. Johnson proves Lincoln's maxim that he can fool some of the people all of the time and if that minority is bigger than any other minority he gets the go ahead to wreak chaos for another five years.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1173640241334411271
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    basicbridge said:

    It was a set up by a Labour activist. Ignore.

    Lots of piss and wind about this sort of thing ion PB, but BJ's ratings never seem to take much of a hit.

    Clue : THE PUBLIC DONT CARE.

    No, they probably won't. Just as they didn't care about Corbyn being a terrorist supporter or, at least initially, about his links to the far right.

    But that doesn't make it less awful the way people are going after this man. Is he not allowed to have a sick child or vent frustration at a pompous oaf using said child's ward for a photo op just because he worked for Emily Thornberry?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    The_Taxman said:

    HYUFD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
    You cannot spin Boris out of this. He was in a hospital for political purposes. He lied about it not being a media event. He was caught on camera telling the bloke 'it was not a media event'! If BJ likes going around hospitals I suggest he does it without a media frenzy.

    I object to it on health grounds as it cannot be much good for the patients being exposed to more germs for no reason. Along with the hospital needing a deep clean perhaps BJ's moral integrity could do with a bit of bleach! :wink:
    The chief executive invited the media as far as I can see and Blair and Brown and Corbyn have done lots of hospital visits with press in though, more Labour hypocrisy
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    I agree. My party right or wrong is how we got into this mess. What the hell happened to us? We used to be better than this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.
    I don't think - no matter who gets educated there - there is any realistic way of reducing class sizes in the state sector to match that ofthe private sector. Christ Church Brecon, one example off the top of my head, has a staff-student ratio of 1:9. Round here, it's about 1:27. So instantly, a tripling of spending on staff would be needed. Plus three times as many classrooms, three times as much admin, three times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
    Or the private schools are not very good. Or can't afford decent maths teachers. Which is also possible.

    I mean, if we're talking about Harrow Comp here that really would be some result. If we're talking about Oxford there are some surprisingly bad private schools in Oxford.
    And if they stay bad they tend to see falling rolls and shut
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The issue is that Johnson with his much vaunted media skills was CRAP. So he guy was a LAB activist- that doesn't alleviate Johnson lie about this not being a media event.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    HYUFD said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.


    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
    Its Ofsted rating is "Good" (not Outstanding). I'd grant you it's lucky in terms of a relative lack of social problems, but it's in one of the F20 (?) authorities which are campaigning because they have the lowest per-head funding from DFE, and somewhere in the middle in terms of deprivation index (certainly OK.. but not an area full of Mercs). And it's true that some parents who might go private to avoid a rough school don't feel the need because it's good.

    The truth is that not all independents deliver fantastic grades. They do offer a higher teaching ratio and better facilities, and I suspect for an average kid can up their grades a bit. But the gifted ones will just get twelve Grade 9s instead of ten at the comp (and the kudos of GCSE Mandarin), and there are plenty of rich thickies whose parents want them hot-housed to a Grade 4 in Maths to avoid embarrassment at the golf club.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Thousands of parents have kids in hospital everyday, most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    MikeSmithson said:

    The issue is that Johnson with his much vaunted media skills was CRAP. So he guy was a LAB activist- that doesn't alleviate Johnson lie about this not being a media event.

    The glorious irony is that we know he was lying because there were so many media present to record it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,725
    Boris is essentially untested in ministerial office (or tested once as FS and failed), because he hasnt worked his way up the departmental ladder like most PMs, nor been Leader of the Opposition. As Mayor he went out of his way to avoid challenge or scutinty, and got away with it because he had the Standard (and to a large extent LBC) in his pocket.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    Tory activists are now going to fight Corbynistas round for round, stunts like these will not go unanswered
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652
    fpt
    Mirabile dictu. James Forsythe thinks Boris really can glimpse a landing zone with a deal. But no further extension to be offered by the EU.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.
    I don't think - no matter who gets educated there - there is any realistic way of reducing class sizes in the state sector to match that ofthe private sector. Christ Church Brecon, one example off the top of my head, has a staff-student ratio of 1:9. Round here, it's about 1:27. So instantly, a tripling of spending on staff would be needed. Plus three times as many classrooms, three times as much admin, three times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
    Or the private schools are not very good. Or can't afford decent maths teachers. Which is also possible.

    I mean, if we're talking about Harrow Comp here that really would be some result. If we're talking about Oxford there are some surprisingly bad private schools in Oxford.
    And if they stay bad they tend to see falling rolls and shut
    You might be surprised how much ruin there is in a private school even after years in the doldrums. Abbotts Bromley was rumoured to be closing every year for about twenty years before it finally shut.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    The_Taxman said:

    HYUFD said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    It was poorly handled. It's not wrong for a PM to have a press event - they are common ways to help get a message out about things that are being done. But you can't deny it's a press event to the background noise of cameras snapping away. It looks daft. Just say, "I'm here to talk about the plans we have to make the NHS even better..." This sort of thing is avoidable and bodes poorly for the real election campaign.

    The Labour activist even had a microphone for his ideological diehard Corbynista ranting
    You cannot spin Boris out of this. He was in a hospital for political purposes. He lied about it not being a media event. He was caught on camera telling the bloke 'it was not a media event'! If BJ likes going around hospitals I suggest he does it without a media frenzy.

    I object to it on health grounds as it cannot be much good for the patients being exposed to more germs for no reason. Along with the hospital needing a deep clean perhaps BJ's moral integrity could do with a bit of bleach! :wink:
    The chief executive invited the media as far as I can see and Blair and Brown and Corbyn have done lots of hospital visits with press in though, more Labour hypocrisy
    You will find a no ten press release detailing why he is going and how he is going to the talk about his policies for the NHS AFTER THE AWARD TO THE NURSE it was no 10 press office that lined the press up even if anybody else did.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    MikeSmithson said:

    The issue is that Johnson with his much vaunted media skills was CRAP. So he guy was a LAB activist- that doesn't alleviate Johnson lie about this not being a media event.

    Boris was fine, he kept his cool throughout despite the rants from this Corbynista
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    Tory activists are now going to fight Corbynistas round for round, stunts like these will not go unanswered
    They looked from man to pig, and pig to man, and man to pig again; but already it was impossible to tell which was which.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    Tory activists are now going to fight Corbynistas round for round, stunts like these will not go unanswered
    What have you got planned, HYUFD?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,120
    Are any of PB's Tories going to deny Johnson was lying when he said it wasn't a press event?

    Or are they going to focus on the fact that the person he lied to is a pre-existing Labour supporter?

    Because it seems to me that the PM being unable to get through the day without telling a transparent lie matters rather more than a bloke who isn't standing for PM (and who does in fact have a sick child) not being strictly neutral.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited September 2019
    Harris_Tweed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the state system is so good.


    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
    Its Ofsted rating is "Good" (not Outstanding). I'd grant you it's lucky in terms of a relative lack of social problems, but it's in one of the F20 (?) authorities which are campaigning because they have the lowest per-head funding from DFE, and somewhere in the middle in terms of deprivation index (certainly OK.. but not an area full of Mercs). And it's true that some parents who might go private to avoid a rough school don't feel the need because it's good.

    The truth is that not all independents deliver fantastic grades. They do offer a higher teaching ratio and better facilities, and I suspect for an average kid can up their grades a bit. But the gifted ones will just get twelve Grade 9s instead of ten at the comp (and the kudos of GCSE Mandarin), and there are plenty of rich thickies whose parents want them hot-housed to a Grade 4 in Maths to avoid embarrassment at the golf club.
    So it is an above average state school, fine, what we need is more cheaper private schools in areas with inadequate or requires improvement state schools, hence the excellent free schools programme
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Harris_Tweed said:

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    nichomar said:

    Of course I agree that you can’t just abolish private schools. I wouldn’t do it I would just try and make it a complete and utter waste of money because the times as many inspections...

    But let's say that it doesn't have to get to *that* level. Let's say about 1:18 is the ideal spot, the sort of ratio a mid-ranking university aims for. That would be around a 50% increase. So every year, the national education system would cost as much as the revised projected budget for HS2.

    I just don't see that happening. There are other things that can be sorted out that would make it easier and would help, but unfortunately as long as parents are willing and able to pay triple or quadruple what the state sector can afford their children will have an advantage. This is despite the fact a number of private schools are actually when you burrow down to it not very good. Smaller class sizes are what give the advantage.
    Are you mixing class size and staff:pupil ratio there?

    My kids' ("bog standard") comp has 46 teaching staff for 700 kids which is c1:15. Of course, class sizes are more than that (I guess similar to your 27) because of varying subject choices, non-contact time etc etc.

    No problem if you're comparing the same figure for both (ie class sizes of 9) of course :)

    (BTW.. the bog standard comp gets better English and Maths GCSEs than most of the local independents. I would give you a Progress 8 comparison, but the DfE doesn't publish them for the indies)
    It is obviously an outstanding comp not a big standard comp then
    Or the private schools are not very good. Or can't afford decent maths teachers. Which is also possible.

    I mean, if we're talking about Harrow Comp here that really would be some result. If we're talking about Oxford there are some surprisingly bad private schools in Oxford.
    And if they stay bad they tend to see falling rolls and shut
    You might be surprised how much ruin there is in a private school even after years in the doldrums. Abbotts Bromley was rumoured to be closing every year for about twenty years before it finally shut.
    So it still shut then
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    Tory activists are now going to fight Corbynistas round for round, stunts like these will not go unanswered
    You will fight them in the trenches, on the beaches in the hospital wards and the sink schools as long as the Tory party survives you will never surrender
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,028
    Well, my battery's dead and i'm suffering with a bad cold. I'm off.

    I have enjoyed the discussions on education and I hope people found them useful.

    Good night, one and all.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,120
    HYUFD said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    The issue is that Johnson with his much vaunted media skills was CRAP. So he guy was a LAB activist- that doesn't alleviate Johnson lie about this not being a media event.

    Boris was fine, he kept his cool throughout despite the rants from this Corbynista
    And did Johnson lie as part of his "cool" response? Yes or no will do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for him to have stayed by his daughter's bedside like most normal parents would not leave it to go on an ideological rant and I make no apologies whatsoever for saying so
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Thousands of parents have kids in hospital everyday, most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting
    Just happens. Lol.

    All politicians do it. It’s one of the reasons that the whole class is beneath contempt. They are sub human. All of them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Thousands of parents have kids in hospital everyday, most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting
    It’s not much use ranting at the Prime Minister when he’s not visiting.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284
    dr_spyn said:

    Labour bag carrier for Thornberry with PPE degree couldn't believe his luck, an opportunity to have a go at a hapless Prime Minister shown round a ward. I hope that the rumour thst he had a radio microphone is unfounded.




    My thoughts exactly. I suspect that he didn't have a radio mike, but that there was an ordinary one available from the Press team that were apparently invisible to Boris. Quite possibly somebody on that team said something like 'do you want to talk to the PM', with the result that we got.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Thousands of parents have kids in hospital everyday, most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting
    Just happens. Lol.

    All politicians do it. It’s one of the reasons that the whole class is beneath contempt. They are sub human. All of them.
    tut tut. Not like you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for him to have stayed by his daughter's bedside like most normal parents would not leave it to go on an ideological rant and I make no apologies whatsoever for saying so
    HYUFD = Inverted Corbynista.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,284
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Thousands of parents have kids in hospital everyday, most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting
    If it had been you and Corbyn, you'd have been into the situation like a ferret up a trouser leg!


    Edit/PS. Anyway I'm in a good mood. Looks like Essex are going to win the cricket County Championship again. Severely stuffed Surrey today.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1174410382586331137
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    BJT said:

    Seems to me that allowing your child to get sick and spend a night in hospital on the off chance the PM comes in with cameras would be quite a high risk set-up.

    Just want to quote this outstanding comment for posterity.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,652
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for him to have stayed by his daughter's bedside like most normal parents would not leave it to go on an ideological rant and I make no apologies whatsoever for saying so
    HYUFD = Inverted Corbynista.
    Is that the same as an inverted pyramid of piffle?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1174410382586331137

    Step forward @HYUFD.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Guido posted shit about tariffs for murder on Twitter the other day and got an absolute kicking from all and sundry. He is clearly still hurting.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Blair handled it a lot better when a lady who's husband was been treated for cancer was really upset .
    Cameron would also have handled it better, due to his experience of been in NHS hospitals, with his severely disabled son.
    It does not matter how much money you have , when you have severely disabled children , as only the state , can provide the special needs care, education in this country.
    I should know as we have a severely disabled granddaughter.
    Money helps with housing , and specialised transport.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Come on man. Step back and think rationally about this. If he’s a Labour activist he clearly is very passionate about the NHS. He clearly thinks it’s been mistreated under Tory governments. In steps the PM. Why wouldn’t he berate him about it?

    He’s still a citizen. He’s still entitled to his views.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Yes and I would hope that if I held strong views and was presented with that opportunity I would have the galls to do it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Poor Boris can't deal with:

    1) Parliament
    2) Rebels in his own Party
    3) Luxembourg Prime Ministers
    4) Members of the public in hospitals
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MikeSmithson said:

    The issue is that Johnson with his much vaunted media skills was CRAP. So he guy was a LAB activist- that doesn't alleviate Johnson lie about this not being a media event.

    The next PM press conference should be noteworthy :

    "Spot the media Boris .... No ? .... Should have gone to Specsavers."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,654
    On education there are 8 state secondary schools in Dundee and 1 private. The private school, year after year, gets more passes of science subjects at higher than the other 8 put together. It gets a higher proportion of A passes than any of the other schools get passes. It teaches subjects, like economics, that are not available in any of the state schools.

    The disgrace is not that the private school gets some tax relief. The disgrace is that generations of children in state schools are being failed and only the private school shows what is possible. Why do we accept such levels of performance? Why is this ok?
    What are we going to do about it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    edited September 2019
    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    The father had a genuine reason to be in the hospital; Boris was there for publicity...

    https://twitter.com/OmarSalem/status/1174301286692532224?s=20
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,993
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    The line from No. 10 has been unexpectedly dignified. That doesn't give Johnson a hospital pass for the stupidest lie since the Titanic was advertised as unsinkable, but at least it showed some sense.

    The line from Tory activists has been disgusting. They really are reminding me of Corbynistas and not in a good way.
    Tory activists are now going to fight Corbynistas round for round, stunts like these will not go unanswered
    Assuming the Labour guy did set a tasteless trap, Boris as usual blundered into it head first.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    nichomar said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Yes and I would hope that if I held strong views and was presented with that opportunity I would have the galls to do it.
    Exactly. I’m not a raging Corbynista but if I was in hospital, in a highly emotional state, and in walks the PM, I’d probably berate him too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Yorkcity said:

    Blair handled it a lot better when a lady who's husband was been treated for cancer was really upset .
    Cameron would also have handled it better, due to his experience of been in NHS hospitals, with his severely disabled son.
    It does not matter how much money you have , when you have severely disabled children , as only the state , can provide the special needs care, education in this country.
    I should know as we have a severely disabled granddaughter.
    Money helps with housing , and specialised transport.

    Boris' mother has had a history of mental health problems and been admitted to psychiatric hospitals, he has had problems in his family with their health just like the rest of us
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,120
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Poor Boris can't deal with:

    1) Parliament
    2) Rebels in his own Party
    3) Luxembourg Prime Ministers
    4) Members of the public in hospitals
    He could readily deal with point 4 by shutting down hospitals for five weeks on a pretext. Wonder if Dom has wargamed it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Poor Boris can't deal with:

    1) Parliament
    2) Rebels in his own Party
    3) Luxembourg Prime Ministers
    4) Members of the public in hospitals
    He can, he dealt with the ideological agendas of all of them with calm and determination
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1174408591530483713

    I do think this is a key point for the prospects of Deal 2.0.

    Labour pro-Dealers might be shepharded through the lobbies for something like TM was discussing with other parties in the dying days of her premiership. But with Boris apparently taking the level playing field provisions off the table, there's no chance of all that "shadowing EU employment and environment law" staying in.

    If you're Caroline Flint, I get that you avoid pissing off your Leavey voters by looking pro-Brexit and talking up a deal. But you'd probably think twice before helping BJ bin off compulsory annual leave or whatever else Singapore on Thames would entail.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    I think Boris meant to say it wasn't a press conference, but it came out wrong *ducks behind sofa*

    @viewcode There's probably likely to be a couple of Labour activists in or visiting a hospital at any one time, and maybe a ~ 20% ? chance one of those will take the opportunity to challenge the PM. So we might be looking at the chance of this happening the wrong way round.

    Clearly the man has an agenda, though I doubt it'll do Johnson's polling or ratings much harm - the usual suspects have leapt on it on twitter.

    He needs to take a leaf out of Obama's book regarding how to deal with hecklers

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAuSWknJhu4

    Nevertheless this wasn't anywhere near Brown's disaster -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEReCN9gO14
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,381
    HYUFD said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Poor Boris can't deal with:

    1) Parliament
    2) Rebels in his own Party
    3) Luxembourg Prime Ministers
    4) Members of the public in hospitals
    He can, he dealt with the ideological agendas of all of them with calm and determination
    You’re struggling tonight mate.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Gallowgate said:

    nichomar said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Yes and I would hope that if I held strong views and was presented with that opportunity I would have the galls to do it.
    Exactly. I’m not a raging Corbynista but if I was in hospital, in a highly emotional state, and in walks the PM, I’d probably berate him too.
    ..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    edited September 2019
    geoffw said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for him to have stayed by his daughter's bedside like most normal parents would not leave it to go on an ideological rant and I make no apologies whatsoever for saying so
    HYUFD = Inverted Corbynista.
    Is that the same as an inverted pyramid of piffle?
    Boris was sacked twice for telling Porkies:

    1) 1987 from The Times regarding making up a quote from historian Colin Lucas
    2) 2004 from the Tory Shadow Front Bench regarding Petronella and the "inverted pyramid"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    Can't we just get back to talking about Brexit.....

    Throws hand grenade and runs off for a late dinner.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Benpointer said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    The father had a genuine reason to be in the hospital; Boris was there for publicity...

    https://twitter.com/OmarSalem/status/1174301286692532224?s=20
    Unless you want a privatised healthcare system and the government to take a totally hands-off approach to healthcare then publicity is a genuine reason for politicians to go to visit hospitals.

    Is that what you want? Will you condemn MPs of all parties for visiting hospitals? Do you want to take politics, and thus taxes, out of the NHS?

    Think carefully about what you're saying.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    DavidL said:

    On education there are 8 state secondary schools in Dundee and 1 private. The private school, year after year, gets more passes of science subjects at higher than the other 8 put together. It gets a higher proportion of A passes than any of the other schools get passes. It teaches subjects, like economics, that are not available in any of the state schools.

    The disgrace is not that the private school gets some tax relief. The disgrace is that generations of children in state schools are being failed and only the private school shows what is possible. Why do we accept such levels of performance? Why is this ok?
    What are we going to do about it?

    Hmmm. You don't think it's anything to do with the spend per pupil?

    Average uk private spend per secondary pupil per year = £14,466, state spend = £6,200.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Gallowgate said:

    nichomar said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Yes and I would hope that if I held strong views and was presented with that opportunity I would have the galls to do it.
    Exactly. I’m not a raging Corbynista but if I was in hospital, in a highly emotional state, and in walks the PM, I’d probably berate him too.
    Well you are certainly anti Tory
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    I honestly find that repugnant. Is the man’s daughter ill? Is she receiving treatment? How the f*** is that a set up then?

    It is of course ridiculous to hold the PM responsible for an alleged shortage of staff on a particular ward. It is equally appalling to use sick kids as some sort of prop to show how you “care”. Pretending it’s not a PR stunt when it so obviously is is pretty contemptible. Politicians who play with fire occasionally get burnt. It goes with the territory.
    Thousands of parents have kids in hospital everyday, most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting
    The reason why "most of them spend their time with their kids not going on ideological rants against the prime minister to push a political agenda just as he happens to be visiting" is because he is not visiting the hospital at the same time as them

    I realise you are an adherent of Boris but surely you must realise that the scenario you have outlined is simply not possible.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,116
    His kid is clearly poorly and it's not really on to have a go at him personally for having a moan to the PM, even if it's wholly misdirected in the circumstances. The PM has to just take that sort of thing in his stride, make nice noises about record NHS spending and tell him his thoughts are with them. News editor runs a tried and tested story called Minister Looks A Tit, nobody actually cares. Docs and nurses go back to tending the sick, No10 thanks them for their hard work in public statement.

    The idea that Salem's criticism of the PM is less valid because he's an opposition activist has some small merit, but that shouldn't extend to being actively shitty towards the chap.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Come on man. Step back and think rationally about this. If he’s a Labour activist he clearly is very passionate about the NHS. He clearly thinks it’s been mistreated under Tory governments. In steps the PM. Why wouldn’t he berate him about it?

    He’s still a citizen. He’s still entitled to his views.
    And? Did I condemn him? Did I say he wasn't entitled to his views?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Benpointer said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    The father had a genuine reason to be in the hospital; Boris was there for publicity...

    https://twitter.com/OmarSalem/status/1174301286692532224?s=20
    Unless you want a privatised healthcare system and the government to take a totally hands-off approach to healthcare then publicity is a genuine reason for politicians to go to visit hospitals.

    Is that what you want? Will you condemn MPs of all parties for visiting hospitals? Do you want to take politics, and thus taxes, out of the NHS?

    Think carefully about what you're saying.
    Did he need a press crew?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,179
    HYUFD said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    This was a set up by a Labour activist, ignore

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1174314704589807616?s=20

    It is not possible for him to have arranged for his daughter to be seriously ill on the same date and time that Boris turned up on a publicity visit that he couldn't possibly have known about in advance.

    Your conclusion is obviously gibberish and speaks poorly of you.
    It is possible for his daughter to be ill, coincidentally find out that the PM is visiting the same hospital then for partisan reasons take the opportunity to ambush him which has presented itself before you though.
    Poor Boris can't deal with:

    1) Parliament
    2) Rebels in his own Party
    3) Luxembourg Prime Ministers
    4) Members of the public in hospitals
    He can, he dealt with the ideological agendas of all of them with calm and determination
    You mean courage and indefatigablity.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    DavidL said:

    On education there are 8 state secondary schools in Dundee and 1 private. The private school, year after year, gets more passes of science subjects at higher than the other 8 put together. It gets a higher proportion of A passes than any of the other schools get passes. It teaches subjects, like economics, that are not available in any of the state schools.

    The disgrace is not that the private school gets some tax relief. The disgrace is that generations of children in state schools are being failed and only the private school shows what is possible. Why do we accept such levels of performance? Why is this ok?
    What are we going to do about it?


    Have been asking that for years but I don’t see academies and free schools as the solution.
This discussion has been closed.