Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is). And also bad for the Lib Dems, over the long term.
Seen it at least 10 times. Would watch it again right now if it came on.
Starship Troopers, hands down.
Starship Troopers is a magnificent hymnn to the joys of Fascism, with plenty of gratuitous nudity and a fair bit of senseless gore. I watch it every time t comes on.
Showgirls by Verhoeven is strangely compelling too.
The knock off sequels are just terrible I'm told (only seen the second), but if you haven't seen the musical number from the third you truly must, it's great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys
Truly marvellous! No Deal Brexit has a new theme tune...
I am a Verhoevan fan though. I love all his films, even the weird Dutch ones, but Starship Troopers is a masterpiece of trashing the original novel, while indulging the directors bizarre Calvinistic tropes
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
Why should we give the tiniest fuck what the Finns say? We can produce our plans at 11.59 on Halloween, if we like.
Well, hopefully 11.59 Brussels time. Even so, leaving just 60 seconds in the middle of the night for the European Council, the Commons, and the European Parliament all to give their formal consent would be winging it a bit even by Boris standards.
Then it's up to them if they agree in the 37 seconds allowed, otherwise No Deal.
The idea the United Kingdom should be bullied into premature ejaculation by the nation of... Finland... is ambitiously surreal.
Truly, enough of these people, and of this shit. We are Great Britain. We will endure. They can all go and do one. Fuck them.
Why would you let another party try to bounce you into an agreement at the last minute? We would be doing exactly the same thing if it was us.
The fact your metaphor for an international agreement is a sexual climax might suggest you're not looking at this very sensibly.
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Not surprising. I wonder what has to happen before Jeremy gets the message?
Coming 3rd in a GE.
Popular vote or seats?
Can’t believe people actually getting excited about mid conference season polling 😀
The key to finding joy in political hobbying is to be continually excited even by the mundane Mid conference season polling might not persist - the LDs briefly held first a few months ago after all - but at least it's not maintaining a boring equilibrium!
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Be interesting if the SC rules that prorogation was improper. Labour then don't get a Conference to get their own bounce.
For sure, there is often (but not always) a small temporary blip upwards after a conference. But (if confirmed by other pollsters) this does suggest that those arguing the firmer anti-Brexit policy was a mistake are themselves mistaken.
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
Been out to see Bait (I was somewhat immune to its supposed charms).
So - Finland says that if Boris doesn't play ball by the end of September, then it's No Deal. Presumably no further discussions, no extensions.
And then the House comes back from prorogation.
Have all Boris's Christmases just come at once?
I don't think that quite true. If in 11 days there are no viable new proposals, then the WA stands as it is. As it is a new Parliamentary session, it could be voted on, not that I think it would be.
Also it is mandated that Boris has to ask for an extension, and there are plenty of reasons that would be granted, such as a GE or PeoplesVote.
So, we could have an extension to - what? Given the WA is locked. Makes no sense.
They should have the balls to tell us to just fuck off. Then we know where we stand.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Not surprising. I wonder what has to happen before Jeremy gets the message?
Coming 3rd in a GE.
Popular vote or seats?
Can’t believe people actually getting excited about mid conference season polling 😀
Losing to the LDs in the popular vote would be enough to spell the end for Corbyn imo.
It wouldn't, Labour is too much in the grip of Corbynism now, as I have been saying for some weeks I think a realignment is in prospect where the LDs replace Labour as the main challengers to the Tories over the next decade
The figures go up on the Times website by around 00.15 but I'm knackered so I'm not sure if I'll be awake to publish the figures.
For what little it is worth, it’s been reported on Twitter as 30/26/25 - quite probably bollocks of course...
You'd need Tories and Brexit Party both to lose vote share to make the numbers add up for that. Much as I'd like that to be true it would be an unlikely development.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
We were arguing it was tactically clever (but cynical), and also a strategic mistake.
One thing we didn't note, tho, was how it moves the Overton Window on Brexit. With Revoke on the one side, and Leave Now on the other, suddenly a 2nd Brex referendum looks like the sensible centre ground (if such a thing still exists)
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
Mostly taking a longer-term view, though. You can't judge it by short-term polling movements (which might have happened anyway, or been even more favourable to the LibDems, without this policy).
(FWIW my view was that it was a misstep, but a minor one.)
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
We were arguing it was tactically clever (but cynical), and also a strategic mistake.
One thing we didn't note, tho, was how it moves the Overton Window on Brexit. With Revoke on the one side, and Leave Now on the other, suddenly a 2nd Brex referendum looks like the sensible centre ground (if such a thing still exists)
Trust sensible Grandpa Jeremy to see the country through these troubled times with his moderate policies...
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
We were arguing it was tactically clever (but cynical), and also a strategic mistake.
One thing we didn't note, tho, was how it moves the Overton Window on Brexit. With Revoke on the one side, and Leave Now on the other, suddenly a 2nd Brex referendum looks like the sensible centre ground (if such a thing still exists)
The genius of the Lib Dem policy proposal is it now starts a conversation of "which type of Remain are you?", as opposed to "should I stay or should I go?"*. Remain as a broad church does not suffer from this. It opens the Overton window, it makes Corbyn's Brexit stance look moderate, and it garners a huge amount of press. It's brilliant.
If Boris does get a deal and gets it through the Commons, I suspect things might get even worse for Labour. I think there are still people who want to vote Lib Dem but plan on voting Labour out of fear of No Deal if Boris wins a GE.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
We were arguing it was tactically clever (but cynical), and also a strategic mistake.
One thing we didn't note, tho, was how it moves the Overton Window on Brexit. With Revoke on the one side, and Leave Now on the other, suddenly a 2nd Brex referendum looks like the sensible centre ground (if such a thing still exists)
The genius of the Lib Dem policy proposal is it now starts a conversation of "which type of Remain are you?", as opposed to "should I stay or should I go?"*. Remain as a broad church does not suffer from this. It opens the Overton window, it makes Corbyn's Brexit stance look moderate, and it garners a huge amount of press. It's brilliant.
That person is smarter than me, at least in this instance. Very sharp.
The figures go up on the Times website by around 00.15 but I'm knackered so I'm not sure if I'll be awake to publish the figures.
For what little it is worth, it’s been reported on Twitter as 30/26/25 - quite probably bollocks of course...
That looks like nonsense. If true, though, it would be worse for the Tories than Labour.
How could having a 4 point lead be worse for the Tories than coming THIRD?
The joys of FPTP and cobbling together a viable majority. Though imagine the situation if Labour and the LDs tried to work out a deal when the LDs beat Labour in the vote but were vastly behind in seats? First conversation would be implementing PR, and that would close the conversation.
Further observations on RantyDadGate. And I come to it fresh. as someone who has read no news since this morning.
1. Boris' "there's no press" thing was oddly crap, weak and silly 2. Boris really needs to learn how to handle this stuff better, But he's clever so he possibly will 3. The man went somewhat too far, shouting and dribbling, and looked a bit mad 4. For that reason, I think, neutrals will side with Boris. 5. Because we've all been with a mad ranter like that. No one likes it. Even if the ranter has a point, as this man maybe did
I think there are two interesting things with this story.
One is the tendency of politicians, not just Johnson, to sweep into hospitals with press entourages and impose themselves on patients, who are literally captive and probably feel fragile, stressed and ill. And no doubt also feel manipulated by these politicians co opting them to their propaganda. Hospitals really should develop policies to stop politicians doing this.
The second is Johnson's astonishing capacity for lying.
I agree that Boris is a big fat liar. I don't however, think he was lying this time, he was just a bit rattled by the man's aggression.
But this is part of the job of PM, and Boris needs to toughen up.
When you are frustrated with the NHS, and there is often plenty of reason to be frustrated, you want to go to the top and shake them into action. I have no doubt this bloke was frustrated and look who waltzed into the ward none other than the person at the very top.
Had I been in a similar situation I would have done exactly the same. With bells on.
So much heat over something so trivial. You are all missing the point. The mans argument was there’s not enough doctors and nurses. Why bash the man when Boris agrees. If Boris agrees it means anyone could have said it. But Boris has been in power since 2010, that’s what makes it difficult for him.
Blair harangued by lady in 2001 because the hospital was filthy. But Blair won massive in 2001 because he was trusted on the NHS.
Cameron tackled in front of cameras by ordinary man in street over disability payments. But it wasn’t ordinary man in Street it’s now Leader of greens.
Let’s focus on health policy not the personalities and the celebrity nature of these confrontations. When new Labour came to power health services in UK way down on league table behind other countries in the world. The Labour Partys privatisation of the NHS is because they wanted to put that right, and wanted better for UK citizens.
Who would be most to blame for a no deal and the results were a bit of a surprise .
The UK government 57%
The EU 25%
Are you ramping the surprise? Looks remarkably like all other binary no deal polling does it not?
I thought the EU would get a higher share of the blame . 34% of Leavers blamed the government .
I doubt many voters differentiate between "government" and "parliament". I see this as British voters blaming an entire political class, and they are right to do so.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
If they get into government on the back of it, that would be catastrophic for national unity. The UK needs to at least revoke on the back of a second referendum or better still leave, see the error of leaving and beg to return.
Voters in Sedgefield were implying on ITN tonight that they were being sold down the river by Corbyn's fence sitting, they will be apoplectic with rage if Brexit is stolen from them by shouty LD lady.
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
We were arguing it was tactically clever (but cynical), and also a strategic mistake.
One thing we didn't note, tho, was how it moves the Overton Window on Brexit. With Revoke on the one side, and Leave Now on the other, suddenly a 2nd Brex referendum looks like the sensible centre ground (if such a thing still exists)
I thought the opposite. Tactically limiting because it would cut off soft Remainers. But strategically interesting on the assumption that either Brexit happens or it doesn't and in either case Lib Dems don't have to explain why they were compromising to a poor deal that nobody wants.
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
The figures go up on the Times website by around 00.15 but I'm knackered so I'm not sure if I'll be awake to publish the figures.
For what little it is worth, it’s been reported on Twitter as 30/26/25 - quite probably bollocks of course...
That looks like nonsense. If true, though, it would be worse for the Tories than Labour.
How could having a 4 point lead be worse for the Tories than coming THIRD?
Well, the Tories would be -2 from the previous poll, while Labour would be +2 - so that the Labour/Tory swing - which is, after all, the first order determinant of British general elections - would have moved in Labour's direction.
So it certainly could be argued. Maybe the sort of argument you might want to keep in reserve in case the Tories were to lose their poll lead to a party other than Labour at some point after October 31st.
Who would be most to blame for a no deal and the results were a bit of a surprise .
The UK government 57%
The EU 25%
Are you ramping the surprise? Looks remarkably like all other binary no deal polling does it not?
I thought the EU would get a higher share of the blame . 34% of Leavers blamed the government .
I doubt many voters differentiate between "government" and "parliament". I see this as British voters blaming an entire political class, and they are right to do so.
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
Rousing! Better than the queeny dirge that we're stuck with.
In the film A Clockwork Orange I think the main violent character is psychologically conditioned to react against this piece by Beethoven?
So Stanley Kubrick anticipating Brexiteers decades before.
"There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Davey D, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our rassoodocks what to do with the evening. The Kensington milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus chlorinated chicken or GM Soya or corn syrup, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-Brexit!"
Lib Dems overtake Labour in a poll on the front of tomorrow's Times
Conference bounce.
Revoke is political suicide, we were told...
We all agreed Revoke was cynically clever. Just very very bad for the country, as a precedent (and it is)
I don't think that we all agreed that at all!
Indeed not; there were some arguing it was a significant mistake
Mostly taking a longer-term view, though. You can't judge it by short-term polling movements (which might have happened anyway, or been even more favourable to the LibDems, without this policy).
(FWIW my view was that it was a misstep, but a minor one.)
In the longer term all parties will be able to refine their policies depending on what happens. It implies a future rejoin policy, but without tying the LibDems down to specifics. If Brexit does get done next month, revoke becomes irrelevant and therefore hard to portray as a strategic mistake.
The figures go up on the Times website by around 00.15 but I'm knackered so I'm not sure if I'll be awake to publish the figures.
For what little it is worth, it’s been reported on Twitter as 30/26/25 - quite probably bollocks of course...
That looks like nonsense. If true, though, it would be worse for the Tories than Labour.
How could having a 4 point lead be worse for the Tories than coming THIRD?
Because if it’s YouGov it shows rises for both Labour and the LDs and a fall for the Tories. But, as I say, I doubt those are the real figures.
If those are the figures I agree it’s more worrying for the Tories, but not a surprise, ref the hammering Boris and the conservatives have been taking. Nor is the pyrrhic narrowness of the libdem to labour right after libdem conference meriting the labour trailing headline.
IMO we won’t get a poll indicative of next springs election until at least December or January.
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
Rousing! Better than the queeny dirge that we're stuck with.
In the film A Clockwork Orange I think the main violent character is psychologically conditioned to react against this piece by Beethoven?
So Stanley Kubrick anticipating Brexiteers decades before.
"There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Davey D, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our rassoodocks what to do with the evening. The Kensington milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus chlorinated chicken or GM Soya or corn syrup, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-Brexit!"
I'm sure HYUFD will be excitedly running that through Electoral Calculus as we speak, but IMO no way do the Tories get a majority on 32%. There's going to be atleast some tactical voting.
Given the state of the LDs in many seats across the country in 2015/2017 I suspect there will be a lot of barcharts based on seat projections or extrapolations from polling.
If that is true... What is the Labour floor? Surely they can’t go much lower than that.
Yes, they can. Look at Scottish Labour post-indyref. I've been saying this for months now.
Post eu-ref Scottish Labour's fate is the future of all Labour, under Corbyn.
I agree but... to the Lib Dems? There is ‘tory little helper’ rabble from even moderate Labour supporters.
But Brexit trumps that, just as Scottish independence trumped everything in Scotland. These things are visceral, and revolutionary. That's the point. Brexit is a revolution. there is no "normal" left.
You might very well think that, of course I couldn’t possibly comment. 🤔
When considering the Lib Dem move to back revoke, although on the surface extreme ( as has been commented here) it does crystallise with voters who will do what.
In a country exhausted and thoroughly bored with all the antics from both sides of the divide, there is now finally a choice. Revoke and remain Lib Dem; Leave (deal or no deal) Tories. Labour find themselves stranded half way across the English Channel. Effectively they’re saying “we’re going to do all of this again” and give us the pleasure of another referendum. Yay.
Those “youngsters” which Corbyn so effectively attracted last time (apparently) aren’t bothered about the niceties of renegotiation and ratification. They want to stay. Irrespective of the vote 3 years ago which for a 21 year old may be a vote in which they were never able to participate in.
I do feel the helplessness of the under 30s in watching Brexit happening will draw them to the “just get rid of it” crowd.
And for Corbyn. Hmm. For man who’s campaigned passionately on many, sometimes very niche issues over the past 40 years to now be “neutral” on the biggest issue to face this country since the war does seem......odd.
The SDP topped the polling in 1981 with 50.5%. Fat lot of good that did them when it came to actual votes.
Let's not get over-excited by a conference bounce for the Swinson-brigade. There is a significant wing in her own party that is very unhappy with the new policy position. And we are seeing a lot of attacks from a range of other interest groups.
Yes, it looks superficially exciting. But it really isn't
Good evening. After almost 10 years, on-and-off, lurking on here, for the first time I actually feel compelled to post.
First off it’s almost an honour to enter the fray with you ladies and gents.
This episode which has consumed PB this evening - even deserving its own thread - is one of the most bizarre incidents to attract such impassioned comments. As always those who detest Boris, will, no matter what the circumstances, use the episode to further entrench their views. Rightly or wrongly. Those who like him - argue the opposite. There’s no opinion changing event here. Everyone sees and believe me what they want to see.
If Boris were to personally cure cancer tomorrow, his detractors would complain that he ignored those suffering from another potentially fatal disease.
Nevertheless. In all of this one thing is apparent to me. When was the last time Mr Corbyn was let loose from his carers to mix with “ordinary people”? Perhaps instead of being followed and surrounded by his Momentum groupies on any outing and preaching to selected adoring crowds, he actually spoke to the “normal” law abiding, tax paying, mortgage paying, credit card paying, car loan paying, pension saving, charity giving majority of people that would be the first ones his first wonderful “socialist revolution” would drive into the sea.
Anyway. Hello again all. Feels weird posting here 😂
Wilkommen! Good first post. You'll find us a boisterous crowd, but generally kind and sweet-natured, apart from Noo, who is a kunt.
If that is true... What is the Labour floor? Surely they can’t go much lower than that.
Probably great news for the Tories - LibDems stripping support from safe Labour city central seats, and the Tories savaging Labour in places like Coventry and Wolverhampton. Maybe even a raft of Birmingham seats come into play for the blues with Labour that low.
You might very well think that, of course I couldn’t possibly comment. 🤔
When considering the Lib Dem move to back revoke, although on the surface extreme ( as has been commented here) it does crystallise with voters who will do what.
In a country exhausted and thoroughly bored with all the antics from both sides of the divide, there is now finally a choice. Revoke and remain Lib Dem; Leave (deal or no deal) Tories. Labour find themselves stranded half way across the English Channel. Effectively they’re saying “we’re going to do all of this again” and give us the pleasure of another referendum. Yay.
Those “youngsters” which Corbyn so effectively attracted last time (apparently) aren’t bothered about the niceties of renegotiation and ratification. They want to stay. Irrespective of the vote 3 years ago which for a 21 year old may be a vote in which they were never able to participate in.
I do feel the helplessness of the under 30s in watching Brexit happening will draw them to the “just get rid of it” crowd.
And for Corbyn. Hmm. For man who’s campaigned passionately on many, sometimes very niche issues over the past 40 years to now be “neutral” on the biggest issue to face this country since the war does seem......odd.
Yes, astute. It's a deeply unhappy place for this firebrand politician to find himself. On the biggest issue of the day Corbyn is humming and hawing. It must make him quite distressed and angry.
His instinctive Leaverism confronts Labour's instinctive Remainerism. There is no middle ground, the truce cannot hold, there will be blood.
Does this mean any possible general election is going to get kicked down the road by labour?
Seems like referendum first has become more popular again after a brief period where a GE looked like being flavour of the month. And for Labour it has the advantage that hopefully it will hit the Tory rating and eliminate the point of voting LD.
If that is true... What is the Labour floor? Surely they can’t go much lower than that.
Probably great news for the Tories - LibDems stripping support from safe Labour city central seats, and the Tories savaging Labour in places like Coventry and Wolverhampton. Maybe even a raft of Birmingham seats come into play for the blues with Labour that low.
The SDP topped the polling in 1981 with 50.5%. Fat lot of good that did them when it came to actual votes.
Let's not get over-excited by a conference bounce for the Swinson-brigade. There is a significant wing in her own party that is very unhappy with the new policy position. And we are seeing a lot of attacks from a range of other interest groups.
Yes, it looks superficially exciting. But it really isn't
No, this really is exciting. Again, look at Scotland after indyref. FFS!
The SDP topped the polling in 1981 with 50.5%. Fat lot of good that did them when it came to actual votes.
Let's not get over-excited by a conference bounce for the Swinson-brigade. There is a significant wing in her own party that is very unhappy with the new policy position. And we are seeing a lot of attacks from a range of other interest groups.
Yes, it looks superficially exciting. But it really isn't
No, this really is exciting. Again, look at Scotland after indyref. FFS!
Epochal shifts occur after seismic referendums.
It becomes a shift only when it is reflected in real votes. At the moment, it is indicative of volatility - and Swinson adopting a populist position.
If that is true... What is the Labour floor? Surely they can’t go much lower than that.
Probably great news for the Tories - LibDems stripping support from safe Labour city central seats, and the Tories savaging Labour in places like Coventry and Wolverhampton. Maybe even a raft of Birmingham seats come into play for the blues with Labour that low.
What is it with all the donkeys this evening?
Maybe Tories can see what everybody else can with Boris? He is an utter ass who is completly out of his depth. If Boris is not acting like a ass he is talking out of it...
Does this mean any possible general election is going to get kicked down the road by labour?
No. At least I can't see how that's possible. Even if the Commons voted yet again not to have a GE, there's bound to be a VOC or VONC which the Tories will lose.
Also, the polls will shift against the Tories if Boris succeeds (by tweaking the WA) or if he fails (by extending A50). In both circumstances the Brexit Party share will go back up to 20%.
If that’s half accurate, Labour really need to not cock up next week.... The Tory fate seems linked to Brexit, but it’s all to play for with the other two.
It may well have been better for Labour if May hadn't had the car crash campaign she had in the 2017 GE. It could have freed itself of Corbyn by now, and we might have had a tenable alternative government to the Tories, with the Lib Dems still an irrelevance. We'd have left the EU by now, but we'd have a deal, and would probably rejoin the EEA in the near future, if not the EU itself.
The SDP topped the polling in 1981 with 50.5%. Fat lot of good that did them when it came to actual votes.
Let's not get over-excited by a conference bounce for the Swinson-brigade. There is a significant wing in her own party that is very unhappy with the new policy position. And we are seeing a lot of attacks from a range of other interest groups.
Yes, it looks superficially exciting. But it really isn't
The SDP's big problem was timing. Firstly, the election didn't come soon enough. Secondly, we had a war.
The LibDem mojo is rising just before a GE, so the omens are good. Or bad, if you don't like the progressives splitting their votes.
Would vulnerable Labour MPs not be more motivated to pass a WA brought back pre-31/10 if polling like the one rumoured is correct?
If Brexit can be killed off as live issue pre-GE then they will surely calculate that there is a better chance of seeing LD switchers returning.
Yes. Good point. Polls like this make a Deal more likely, as Labour MPs become terrified of the Libs.
Traps them a bit though if this is sustained - their fear might be thus: we are losing votes to the LDs because they have switched to revoke. If we help pass a deal all those remainers who like revoke will be even angrier at us! So we had better avoid a GE. But that makes us look frit.
I'm just not sure enough of them are thinking far enough ahead to hope that by killing off Brexit as an issue (or rather at least the question of if we are leaving at all) it will mean a return to a focus on issues that they would prefer to focus upon.
Would vulnerable Labour MPs not be more motivated to pass a WA brought back pre-31/10 if polling like the one rumoured is correct?
If Brexit can be killed off as live issue pre-GE then they will surely calculate that there is a better chance of seeing LD switchers returning.
Yes. Good point. Polls like this make a Deal more likely, as Labour MPs become terrified of the Libs.
Looks like Corbyn could have made the biggest gaffe in recent political history, voting against a Withdrawal Agreement which could have moved the conversation beyond Brexit onto domestic issues where he is stronger and instead leading to May being replaced by the more charismatic Boris on a clear Brexit line with the LDs moving to revoke leaving Labour to be run over in the middle
Would vulnerable Labour MPs not be more motivated to pass a WA brought back pre-31/10 if polling like the one rumoured is correct?
If Brexit can be killed off as live issue pre-GE then they will surely calculate that there is a better chance of seeing LD switchers returning.
I would have thought the opposite - voting for Brexit to happen could be to Labour MPs what voting for tuition fees was for the Lib Dems. It would be seen as a betrayal to vote for a Tory Brexit.
The SDP topped the polling in 1981 with 50.5%. Fat lot of good that did them when it came to actual votes.
Let's not get over-excited by a conference bounce for the Swinson-brigade. There is a significant wing in her own party that is very unhappy with the new policy position. And we are seeing a lot of attacks from a range of other interest groups.
Yes, it looks superficially exciting. But it really isn't
The SDP's big problem was timing. Firstly, the election didn't come soon enough. Secondly, we had a war.
The LibDem mojo is rising just before a GE, so the omens are good. Or bad, if you don't like the progressives splitting their votes.
It might be rising - but it isn't yet soaring.
And I am not sure that any party has the right to call itself progressive right now.
Comments
Can’t believe people actually getting excited about mid conference season polling 😀
1,800 posts and he’s making like a veteran
The fact your metaphor for an international agreement is a sexual climax might suggest you're not looking at this very sensibly.
Labour cannot win here bar charts in places like Liverpool will be fun,
One thing we didn't note, tho, was how it moves the Overton Window on Brexit. With Revoke on the one side, and Leave Now on the other, suddenly a 2nd Brex referendum looks like the sensible centre ground (if such a thing still exists)
(FWIW my view was that it was a misstep, but a minor one.)
So Stanley Kubrick anticipating Brexiteers decades before.
Blair harangued by lady in 2001 because the hospital was filthy. But Blair won massive in 2001 because he was trusted on the NHS.
Cameron tackled in front of cameras by ordinary man in street over disability payments. But it wasn’t ordinary man in Street it’s now Leader of greens.
Let’s focus on health policy not the personalities and the celebrity nature of these confrontations. When new Labour came to power health services in UK way down on league table behind other countries in the world. The Labour Partys privatisation of the NHS is because they wanted to put that right, and wanted better for UK citizens.
Voters in Sedgefield were implying on ITN tonight that they were being sold down the river by Corbyn's fence sitting, they will be apoplectic with rage if Brexit is stolen from them by shouty LD lady.
My guess would be something more like 34/22/20.
So it certainly could be argued. Maybe the sort of argument you might want to keep in reserve in case the Tories were to lose their poll lead to a party other than Labour at some point after October 31st.
https://twitter.com/_DaveTalbot/status/1174449317098033153?s=20
Post eu-ref Scottish Labour's fate is the future of all Labour, under Corbyn.
IMO we won’t get a poll indicative of next springs election until at least December or January.
That would be tasty.
https://twitter.com/grahphil/status/1174447464654495745?s=20
You might very well think that, of course I couldn’t possibly comment. 🤔
When considering the Lib Dem move to back revoke, although on the surface extreme ( as has been commented here) it does crystallise with voters who will do what.
In a country exhausted and thoroughly bored with all the antics from both sides of the divide, there is now finally a choice. Revoke and remain Lib Dem; Leave (deal or no deal) Tories. Labour find themselves stranded half way across the English Channel. Effectively they’re saying “we’re going to do all of this again” and give us the pleasure of another referendum. Yay.
Those “youngsters” which Corbyn so effectively attracted last time (apparently) aren’t bothered about the niceties of renegotiation and ratification. They want to stay. Irrespective of the vote 3 years ago which for a 21 year old may be a vote in which they were never able to participate in.
I do feel the helplessness of the under 30s in watching Brexit happening will draw them to the “just get rid of it” crowd.
And for Corbyn. Hmm. For man who’s campaigned passionately on many, sometimes very niche issues over the past 40 years to now be “neutral” on the biggest issue to face this country since the war does seem......odd.
Let's not get over-excited by a conference bounce for the Swinson-brigade. There is a significant wing in her own party that is very unhappy with the new policy position. And we are seeing a lot of attacks from a range of other interest groups.
Yes, it looks superficially exciting. But it really isn't
I was posting here even before Jack W 😮
Were you up for Tom Watson?
His instinctive Leaverism confronts Labour's instinctive Remainerism. There is no middle ground, the truce cannot hold, there will be blood.
Epochal shifts occur after seismic referendums.
It’s clear Johnson doesn’t want to reveal anything until after the Tory conference for fear of more party infighting .
If Brexit can be killed off as live issue pre-GE then they will surely calculate that there is a better chance of seeing LD switchers returning.
Also, the polls will shift against the Tories if Boris succeeds (by tweaking the WA) or if he fails (by extending A50). In both circumstances the Brexit Party share will go back up to 20%.
Is it illegal to publish fictitious polling?
The LibDem mojo is rising just before a GE, so the omens are good. Or bad, if you don't like the progressives splitting their votes.
I'm just not sure enough of them are thinking far enough ahead to hope that by killing off Brexit as an issue (or rather at least the question of if we are leaving at all) it will mean a return to a focus on issues that they would prefer to focus upon.
And I am not sure that any party has the right to call itself progressive right now.