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Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from youAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
He's a class act.0 -
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote0 -
No it is the likes of you showing contempt for the biggest vote in postwar history, Boris has shown frequently he is willing to take on Putin over Salisbury etc.Nigel_Foremain said:
The only traitors here are the cnuts like you that do the bidding of the worst PM in history who is in turn doing the bidding of Vladimir Putin. be careful about bandying around words that apply far more to extremely gullible self than other people.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
As Vernon Bogdanor said recently liberal elitists like you do not like losing, you clearly only accept democracy when you win, well this time you lost the vote and it will be delivered no matter what the cost0 -
Leave him. For all his bluster his favourite chap is not having a good day. Or week. It's got to be hard.OnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote0 -
They are not divorced.HYUFD said:
Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from youAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
He's a class act.0 -
@HYUFD could very easily be right about all of this. Let’s see. None of us really know.0
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The "etc" in that sentence is doing a lot of heavy lifting.HYUFD said:
No it is the likes of you showing contempt for the biggest vote in postwar history, Boris has shown frequently he is willing to take on Putin over Salisbury etc.Nigel_Foremain said:
The only traitors here are the cnuts like you that do the bidding of the worst PM in history who is in turn doing the bidding of Vladimir Putin. be careful about bandying around words that apply far more to extremely gullible self than other people.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
As Vernon Bogdanor said recently liberal elitists like you do not like losing, you clearly only accept democracy when you win, well this time you lost the vote and it will be delivered no matter what the cost0 -
Those who betrayed the winning Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote0 -
What we need to do is gauge @TheScreamingEagles ‘s mood to work out what the embargoed polls show.0
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They're still married. The decree absolute hasn't been granted yet. He's technically living in sin.HYUFD said:
Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from youAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
He's a class act.0 -
Good to know that some bits of the state are still functioning
https://twitter.com/hthjones/status/1169597761026744326?s=200 -
HYUFD said:
One poll is not a good basis for projection. An average of polls, or even a range of potential outcomes is preferred. As I said there is easily a situation where Johnson gets 30 - 35% of the vote and doesn't get a governable number of seats. I would go so far as to say that is the likely scenario. Under FPTP we can never know what is going to happen, yet it looks clear that Scotland is going back to the SNP and the South West is likely to go back to the LDs. The big issue for Cons may be that this time the vote share is too concentrated than too spread thin; it is possible that some very Conservative areas see increases in vote share for their incumbent MP, but marginals see more tactical voting preventing a Conservative win.148grss said:
Boris gets a Tory majority of over 40 with Hanbury today and Swinson has made clear under no circumstances whatsoever will she allow Corbyn to become PMGabs2 said:
There is easily a situation where Johnson gets 30-35% of the vote but doesn't get a governable number of seats. All the other parties (bar BXP and NI parties) cannot be seen to prop up Conservatives, let alone Johnson. They can be seen as moderating Corbyn.CarlottaVance said:
If Boris gets 30-35% of the country he wins the election, which is entirely in line with the 2:1 split. The position of that third of voters is that he might be in it for himself but will still do what they want. Not wilting in front of his brother and refusing to follow the law to request an extension just helps him with those voters.
We need to separate how we want the world to work from what actually happens. I am appalled as anyone at the trashing of our civil norms but I just don't think it matters in the short term. I think Boris will get a small majority.
Obviously it is possible Johnson can win a majority, in a way I think it is easy to say it is not for Corbyn. But I think, when push comes to shove, the country will vote in such a way that Tories cannot form a majority government, and when push comes to shove, LDs will not make the coalition mistake twice, especially now Brexit is in the mix.
EDIT: GDI messed up the blockquotes; and I'd been doing such a good job recently.0 -
I think a one line bill naming Oct 15 has a good chance of passing. Benn will have assent so it will be law to request the extension and as the main argument is now Boris can't be trusted then an opportunity is being presented to take him out of the equation before the EU meeting. There is no time to repeal Benn following an election even if Boris gets a majority, parliament wont be in session in time. Labour and SNP leadership want an election. If that can't pass then politics is broken.0
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So Boris Johnson is not only an adulterer he's also a fornicator!DougSeal said:
They're still married. The decree absolute hasn't been granted yet. He's technically living in sin.HYUFD said:
Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from youAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
He's a class act.0 -
So that's all the ERG members and everyone who didn't vote for all 3 of May's voters including JRM and Boris.HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
It also excludes every MP who had the whipped withdrawn this week.0 -
That is a bit harsh. Donitz was only Chancellor for 23 days. Boris has managed 43 already! I also think that the state of the country that he inherited was considerably better than Germany on 30th April 1945RochdalePioneers said:Thoughts:
4. Why do I keep seeing parallels to the Donitz led government of May 1945? In office, with titles running paper departments, but without the power to do anything other than squabble internally and reorganise the paper clips
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Yes. It's also perfectly accurate to say that he cheated on his wife while she was being treated for cancer. Sorry @HYUFD . I'm sure everything else you say is 100% true though.TheScreamingEagles said:
So Boris Johnson is not only an adulterer he's also a fornicator!DougSeal said:
They're still married. The decree absolute hasn't been granted yet. He's technically living in sin.HYUFD said:
Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from youAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
He's a class act.0 -
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I’m sitting in a pergola, just outside ‘Fabled Mycenae, rich in gold.’ The barman has closed the taverna but left me to finish my Mythos
Can anyone sum up the day in two sentences? I know about jo. Is there anything else? Any polls?!?0 -
Also - if we kick the brexit can down the road yet again millions won;t bother voting. This time, or ever again. And who can blame them.dixiedean said:This election will turn on the level, or lack of tactical voting. 35% could win a healthy majority or a dismal defeat. We'll see.
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To be fair, I was ripping Jo Johnson the other day for being the only MP to vote against Mrs May's deal from the Remain side and yet back the Government on No Deal. That did make him look like the most unprincipled MP on the Tory benches. I retract that cynicism now.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!1 -
It highlights that Johnson gave jobs in government to "diehard Remainer traitors" and still harbours them in his Cabinet! Only this morning, Michael Gove said he still supported Theresa May's hated Versailles Treaty and Boris hasn't taken any action against him.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote0 -
Because they haven't caught up with reality yet, but they will...GIN1138 said:
So why are polls consistently showing the Conseravtives with majority winning leads?Foxy said:
Get real! at the moment BoZo is a shit magnet.GIN1138 said:
Labours entire 2008 mayoral campaign was based on "you can't trust Boris" "Boris is evil" "Boris will kill your first born" etc.eek said:
You think it's priced in - I really don't think it is. After 6 weeks of all parties using the phrase with multiple stories and examples things may look very different.Gabs2 said:
Everyone knows that already though so it is priced in. The question is whether this will somehow make it worse.eek said:
Good try but "Boris can't be trusted"Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
When you think of some of Toynbee's anti-Boris pieces in 2008 barely anything has changed in 11 years.
Now of course, the attack lines could be more damaging for Boris in 2019 than they were in 2008 but somehow Boris has that "teflon" feel of a Blair.
His dog will ask to be rehomed in Battersea shortly...0 -
Gove retains the title?Tissue_Price said:That did make him look like the most unprincipled MP on the Tory benches.
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As I see the main GE fight.. Lab and Con each have a (currently fairly low) core who'd walk across hot coals for their guy - say 25pc for Boris and 20pc for Corbyn, give or take. Contrast that with the 80 per cent between them at GE2017.
That leaves more than half the electorate over which they will have to scrap with the other parties.
My hunch is that more of them are Boris's for the taking, especially with some well-placed police/school/hospital spending.. but the deselections this week won't help on one side, and Farage's fate is still inextricably linked on the other.
The variable for Labour is where their Brexit policy lands (and how much credibility it carries), and how much they can communicate free owls for everyone.. or the modern equivalent.. over the stereo drone of Brexit and anti-semitism.
Boris might get a majority, possibly even a working one. Corbyn won't (and I suspect will have a problem getting others in the tent while he's still leader).0 -
If we really stretch the analogy, Donitz heralded a massive period of economic expansion over the following 20 years. He did this by moving Germany away from the policies of his predecessor, who had favoured a united Europe.eristdoof said:
That is a bit harsh. Donitz was only Chancellor for 23 days. Boris has managed 43 already! I also think that the state of the country that he inherited was considerably better than Germany on 30th April 1945RochdalePioneers said:Thoughts:
4. Why do I keep seeing parallels to the Donitz led government of May 1945? In office, with titles running paper departments, but without the power to do anything other than squabble internally and reorganise the paper clips2 -
You may be surprised if you think this week's pile on won't energize Boris-leaning voters in a major way.Foxy said:
Because they haven't caught up with reality yet, but they will...GIN1138 said:
So why are polls consistently showing the Conseravtives with majority winning leads?Foxy said:
Get real! at the moment BoZo is a shit magnet.GIN1138 said:
Labours entire 2008 mayoral campaign was based on "you can't trust Boris" "Boris is evil" "Boris will kill your first born" etc.eek said:
You think it's priced in - I really don't think it is. After 6 weeks of all parties using the phrase with multiple stories and examples things may look very different.Gabs2 said:
Everyone knows that already though so it is priced in. The question is whether this will somehow make it worse.eek said:
Good try but "Boris can't be trusted"Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
When you think of some of Toynbee's anti-Boris pieces in 2008 barely anything has changed in 11 years.
Now of course, the attack lines could be more damaging for Boris in 2019 than they were in 2008 but somehow Boris has that "teflon" feel of a Blair.
His dog will ask to be rehomed in Battersea shortly...0 -
Well there's my polling here in Hampstead.Byronic said:I’m sitting in a pergola, just outside ‘Fabled Mycenae, rich in gold.’ The barman has closed the taverna but left me to finish my Mythos
Can anyone sum up the day in two sentences? I know about jo. Is there anything else? Any polls?!?
People not too impressed with Johnson's shenanigans.
Sorry that was 3 sentences. 4 now.0 -
Apologies if someone else has already noted that Jo's departure has to be an almost unique case of a Minister resigning to spend less time with his family.1
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How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.0 -
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.0 -
I expect there will be some deluded and some bullied and bribed. Others sympathetic to someone having the shit kicked out of him...blueblue said:
You may be surprised if you think this week's pile on won't energize Boris-leaning voters in a major way.Foxy said:
Because they haven't caught up with reality yet, but they will...GIN1138 said:
So why are polls consistently showing the Conseravtives with majority winning leads?Foxy said:
Get real! at the moment BoZo is a shit magnet.GIN1138 said:
Labours entire 2008 mayoral campaign was based on "you can't trust Boris" "Boris is evil" "Boris will kill your first born" etc.eek said:
You think it's priced in - I really don't think it is. After 6 weeks of all parties using the phrase with multiple stories and examples things may look very different.Gabs2 said:
Everyone knows that already though so it is priced in. The question is whether this will somehow make it worse.eek said:
Good try but "Boris can't be trusted"Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
When you think of some of Toynbee's anti-Boris pieces in 2008 barely anything has changed in 11 years.
Now of course, the attack lines could be more damaging for Boris in 2019 than they were in 2008 but somehow Boris has that "teflon" feel of a Blair.
His dog will ask to be rehomed in Battersea shortly...
It will take a week or two to percolate through to the polls.0 -
Please do so. Its almost as funny as the Leader of the House lounging disrespectfully across the Treasury Bench.HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the winning Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote0 -
Metropolitan liberal elite scum!!!!!kinabalu said:
Well there's my polling here in Hampstead.Byronic said:I’m sitting in a pergola, just outside ‘Fabled Mycenae, rich in gold.’ The barman has closed the taverna but left me to finish my Mythos
Can anyone sum up the day in two sentences? I know about jo. Is there anything else? Any polls?!?
People not too impressed with Johnson's shenanigans.
Sorry that was 3 sentences. 4 now.0 -
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care if you shag mewling blind hamsters at 4am, as long as you get the job done.
Boris, who is clearly a shit, looks like he wants to get the job done, and has the mojo to do it. Theresa, who was so fundamentally decent she thought running in wheat fields was outrageous, was a shit politician who got nothing done, so the voters decided not to give her a majority, even against Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed0 -
The genius of the FTPA is that the better the polls are for him, the less likely he is to get an election.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care if you shag mewling blind hamsters at 4am, as long as you get the job done.
Boris, who is clearly a shit, looks like he wants to get the job done, and has the mojo to do it. Theresa, who was so fundamentally decent she thought running in wheat fields was outrageous, was a shit politician who got nothing done, so the voters decided not to give her a majority, even against Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed0 -
If we allow no-deal to pass then we might as well kick our economy and our flawed system of democracy down the road, both of which will become, just like the advocates of Brexit, vacuous basketcasesJonCisBack said:
Also - if we kick the brexit can down the road yet again millions won;t bother voting. This time, or ever again. And who can blame them.dixiedean said:This election will turn on the level, or lack of tactical voting. 35% could win a healthy majority or a dismal defeat. We'll see.
0 -
-
Of course people back the Withdrawal agreement and no back stop. It is not an option though.HYUFD said:Supplementary polling questions on Brexit also great for Boris.
Voters oppose further extension with both the latest Yougov and Survation polls and 52% of voters back Boris plan for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with Survation too0 -
Yes. Ironic.DougSeal said:
The genius of the FTPA is that the better the polls are for him, the less likely he is to get an election.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care if you shag mewling blind hamsters at 4am, as long as you get the job done.
Boris, who is clearly a shit, looks like he wants to get the job done, and has the mojo to do it. Theresa, who was so fundamentally decent she thought running in wheat fields was outrageous, was a shit politician who got nothing done, so the voters decided not to give her a majority, even against Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
There is a very good chance Boris will have to resign in October, if the alternative is asking fir an extension. I can’t see him doing that. He will let Corbyn or Clark do it0 -
@rcs1000
You know that
Boris has lost every single battle except for the important one.Byronic said:I’m sitting in a pergola, just outside ‘Fabled Mycenae, rich in gold.’ The barman has closed the taverna but left me to finish my Mythos
Can anyone sum up the day in two sentences? I know about jo. Is there anything else? Any polls?!?0 -
I think I will have to continue to describe HYUFD as a thick cnut who does the bidding of Putin. What a twat! What a joke!RochdalePioneers said:
Please do so. Its almost as funny as the Leader of the House lounging disrespectfully across the Treasury Bench.HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the winning Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote-1 -
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care if you shag mewling blind hamsters at 4am, as long as you get the job done.
Boris, who is clearly a shit, looks like he wants to get the job done, and has the mojo to do it. Theresa, who was so fundamentally decent she thought running in wheat fields was outrageous, was a shit politician who got nothing done, so the voters decided not to give her a majority, even against Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed0 -
Wow. More people agree with that than Brexit? Can't be right.CarlottaVance said:0 -
You have to understand that HYUFD like so many of the leave chanters don't know what "leave" and "European Union" mean. The May deal to leave the EU was wrong because it meant we didn't leave I keep being told. Except that we WOULD leave the EU. So they simply don't know what "EU" actually is - apparently it now includes all kinds of non-EU things like the EEA which is 100% legally organisationally or rationally the EU.OnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.0 -
It’s possible that Boris made promises about being serious about going for a deal and Jo has now realised that he was being played.Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
I also wonder how much the expulsion of the 21 has changed matters. It is such a vindictive act.0 -
Bill Clinton, Trump, Berlusconi all adulterers, all hugely charismatic, all won.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Indeed even now Boris does better with men than women0 -
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.0 -
Most people don’t know what either are in any detailAlistair said:
Of course people back the Withdrawal agreement and no back stop. It is not an option though.HYUFD said:Supplementary polling questions on Brexit also great for Boris.
Voters oppose further extension with both the latest Yougov and Survation polls and 52% of voters back Boris plan for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with Survation too0 -
I am not as pessimistic about no deal as you, but even if i was, it doesn't change the fact that many, many people won't bother voting again if the vote in the referendum is not implemented as promised.Nigel_Foremain said:
If we allow no-deal to pass then we might as well kick our economy and our flawed system of democracy down the road, both of which will become, just like the advocates of Brexit, vacuous basketcasesJonCisBack said:
Also - if we kick the brexit can down the road yet again millions won;t bother voting. This time, or ever again. And who can blame them.dixiedean said:This election will turn on the level, or lack of tactical voting. 35% could win a healthy majority or a dismal defeat. We'll see.
0 -
So the 52% Leave voting majority now united behind BorisCarlottaVance said:0 -
What definition is that?HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.0 -
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care if you shag mewling blind hamsters at 4am, as long as you get the job done.
Boris, who is clearly a shit, looks like he wants to get the job done, and has the mojo to do it. Theresa, who was so fundamentally decent she thought running in wheat fields was outrageous, was a shit politician who got nothing done, so the voters decided not to give her a majority, even against Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.
0 -
Fear of a no deal Brexit is right up there with the other wacko doomsday cult religions like End of Days climate change, anti-vac and veganism.TheScreamingEagles said:
Trouble with fervent faith is the desire to eliminate all non believers from the face of the earth - most selfish.1 -
It is in no way a vindictive act. It is absolutely vital if one wants to secure Brexit. What would be the point of Boris securing a majority and then finding that some of those elected on his manifesto of leaving the EU no matter what, were unwilling to back that once they had won their seats. We would be right back where we are nowCyclefree said:
It’s possible that Boris made promises about being serious about going for a deal and Jo has now realised that he was being played.Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
I also wonder how much the expulsion of the 21 has changed matters. It is such a vindictive act.
Part of the reason we are in this mess now is because MPs have lied about their intentions so as to get elected. Who in their right mind would want the Government to be right back in the same position again after an election?0 -
Maybe they do. The irony is that if you want a general election to happen you have to hope you are wrong. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Politicians only seek to trigger an election if it suits them and, if you are right, it won't suit the majority of Parliament if this weekend's polls bear your thesis out.HYUFD said:
So the 52% Leave voting majority now united behind BorisCarlottaVance said:0 -
The next time JRM is interviewed he’s going to be asked to repeat that slander without the benefit of Parliamentary privilege.TheScreamingEagles said:
0 -
Yes. He’s the one who consistently said (and was consistently ridiculed for saying) Boris would win the leadership contest, while everyone else advised laying him at 5/1 and bigger.DougSeal said:
I'm relatively new here, am I correct in saying that @HYUFD is a member of the Conservative Party?Nigel_Foremain said:Just picked up this news. No doubt HYUFD will say it is a master stroke form the Boris family, and is actually designed to ensure Boris will achieve the landslide that his total brilliance deserves
0 -
Boris voted against the Withdrawal Agreement twice.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.
The referendum didn't mention No Deal, we've never been offered a democratic vote on it.0 -
The referendum didn’t mention a lot of things.logical_song said:
Boris voted against the Withdrawal Agreement twice.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.
The referendum didn't mention No Deal, we've never been offered a democratic vote on it.
Let me know when it has been enacted.0 -
Please explain how it is vindictive? They were told the consequences, told it was a confidence motion and made their choice.Cyclefree said:
It’s possible that Boris made promises about being serious about going for a deal and Jo has now realised that he was being played.Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
I also wonder how much the expulsion of the 21 has changed matters. It is such a vindictive act.
Are all confidence motions vindictive?0 -
If you vote against the only available Deal and against No Deal then by basic elimination you have to be voting against Leave altogether. After all we keep being told there is no alternative Deal available.logical_song said:
Boris voted against the Withdrawal Agreement twice.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.
The referendum didn't mention No Deal, we've never been offered a democratic vote on it.0 -
Kind of a weird confidence motion because the Prime Minister lost it but didn't resign, he's literally still there being Prime Minister.Philip_Thompson said:Please explain how it is vindictive? They were told the consequences, told it was a confidence motion and made their choice.
Are all confidence motions vindictive?0 -
It's not slander. If he thinks he is that irresponsible it's his factual opinion of the man. A worse striker than John Fashanu is not a slander.CarlottaVance said:
The next time JRM is interviewed he’s going to be asked to repeat that slander without the benefit of Parliamentary privilege.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a stupid and misguided opinion though0 -
Off-topic:
You would expect the chatter at the school gates on the first couple of days back after the summer hols to be the annual who-had-the-grandest-holiday borefest.
Instead, there was a fair amount of frustration - bordering on anger - about the school funding recently announced by the government. According to a local website, two of the four primary schools in our village are getting increased funding - potentially £446 and £393 per pupil - whilst apparently the other two get nothing.
Annoyingly, this includes the school my son attends.
I daresay there is a very strict formula for how the new funding is allocated, and the new funding might offset existing imbalances (I cannot find the figures atm (*)). But four schools within a mile or so of each other being treated so differently has annoyed a few people.
(*) If anyone can point me towards such figures for spending per pupil per school, I'd be grateful.1 -
A better than 'Sun' headline.Scott_P said:0 -
If you are prepared to conspire to have a reporter beaten up.
Having your brother resign is small beer.
2 -
ZAP!!!!!!!!!0
-
Calling a motion a "confidence" motion in the full knowledge that it, for you, will have none of the traditional adverse consequences of such a motion if you lose, but it will for those who don't follow the whip, is indeed vindictive. Or perhaps cowardly is a better word. It's a heads I win, tails you lose situation. Had this happened in 2010 there would have been a resignation or an election. But there's no resignation, there is no election, and yet they had the whip removed anyway. That's vindicitive.Philip_Thompson said:
Please explain how it is vindictive? They were told the consequences, told it was a confidence motion and made their choice.Cyclefree said:
It’s possible that Boris made promises about being serious about going for a deal and Jo has now realised that he was being played.Gabs2 said:I am not sure right wingers will feel this way. Jo Johnson knew his brother's do or die push, so his flip flopping from supporting May to resigning to supporting Boris to resigning makes him look like the untrustworthy one.
I also wonder how much the expulsion of the 21 has changed matters. It is such a vindictive act.
Are all confidence motions vindictive?0 -
No, it doesn’t. For someone who claims to be so keen on democracy you seem to lack the most basic understanding of it. The concept of opposition is integral to it. It is inherent in any democracy that anyone is entitled to disagree with the verdict of the majority and seek to change it. Opposition and disagreement are legitimate, indeed necessary. They do not make you a traitor.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:HYUFD said:
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.
You keep on repeating this. It is wrong. It is tiresome. It is offensive. And it diminishes you.
Your mindset is, I’m afraid to say, not that of a democrat but more akin to those who think there can only be one legitimate way of thinking about a policy. Countries that operate like this tend to be found in the Middle East and similar places. If you want to understand what is really needed for a country to be democratic, read this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/21/cultivating-democracy/. You might even learn something.1 -
Ludicrous!!!!!!HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote0 -
People want a leader who says he’s going to do something simple and understandable then does it. People on here are fans of wordy, lawyerly prose because it’s clever clever. The public despise it.Byronic said:
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.0 -
(..fetches popcorn..)Byronic said:
Yes. Ironic.DougSeal said:
The genius of the FTPA is that the better the polls are for him, the less likely he is to get an election.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care if you shag mewling blind hamsters at 4am, as long as you get the job done.
Boris, who is clearly a shit, looks like he wants to get the job done, and has the mojo to do it. Theresa, who was so fundamentally decent she thought running in wheat fields was outrageous, was a shit politician who got nothing done, so the voters decided not to give her a majority, even against Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
There is a very good chance Boris will have to resign in October, if the alternative is asking fir an extension. I can’t see him doing that. He will let Corbyn or Clark do it
The best bit is, that (a) having made such a fuss about "do or die" and (b) given the sub-optimal attention to detail among most voters, Boris would actually get a fair chunk of the blame for not delivering Brexit.. especially if a certain insurgent with a tweed jacket and a pint in his hand is saying so every hour on the news.0 -
Jo Johnson has confirmed to Tom Newton Dunn he is 100% behind Boris one nation domestic agenda, but his resignation is all about Brexit. He says domestic one nation conservatism is 'what Boris is good at'0
-
To oppose a majority opinion is not traitorous. If you believe so you are no democrat.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
This one is even better than some of your previous masterpieces. How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.1 -
Wakefield is discredited, struck off for unethical behaviour, misconduct and dishonesty and authoring fraudulent research. Let’s see if JRM repeats his remarks outside the house.dyedwoolie said:
It's not slander. If he thinks he is that irresponsible it's his factual opinion of the man. A worse striker than John Fashanu is not a slander.CarlottaVance said:
The next time JRM is interviewed he’s going to be asked to repeat that slander without the benefit of Parliamentary privilege.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a stupid and misguided opinion though0 -
You are entitled to fight for your beliefs in an election or referendum campaign, you can even try and reverse the result in a subsequent election or referendum, what you are NOT entitled to do and the reason why so many Leavers (and even a few Remainers) are so angry now is refuse to implement the result of that election or referendum in the first place because you don't like it.Cyclefree said:
No, it doesn’t. For someone who claims to be so keen on democracy you seem to lack the most basic understanding of it. The concept of opposition is integral to it. It is inherent in any democracy that anyone is entitled to disagree with the verdict of the majority and seek to change it. Opposition and disagreement are legitimate, indeed necessary. They do not make you a traitor.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrtraitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:HYUFD said:
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"TraitoP.
You keep on repeating this. It is wrong. It is tiresome. It is offensive. And it diminishes you.
Your mindset is, I’m afraid to say, not that of a democrat but more akin to those who think there can only be one legitimate way of thinking about a policy. Countries that operate like this tend to be found in the Middle East and similar places. If you want to understand what is really needed for a country to be democratic, read this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/21/cultivating-democracy/. You might even learn something.
That is the way democracy dies0 -
Totally agree.Cyclefree said:
No, it doesn’t. For someone who claims to be so keen on democracy you seem to lack the most basic understanding of it. The concept of opposition is integral to it. It is inherent in any democracy that anyone is entitled to disagree with the verdict of the majority and seek to change it. Opposition and disagreement are legitimate, indeed necessary. They do not make you a traitor.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:HYUFD said:
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.
You keep on repeating this. It is wrong. It is tiresome. It is offensive. And it diminishes you.
Your mindset is, I’m afraid to say, not that of a democrat but more akin to those who think there can only be one legitimate way of thinking about a policy. Countries that operate like this tend to be found in the Middle East and similar places. If you want to understand what is really needed for a country to be democratic, read this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/21/cultivating-democracy/. You might even learn something.0 -
That's is a remarkably patronising and elitist view of the electorate.isam said:
People want a leader who says he’s going to do something simple and understandable then does it. People on here are fans of wordy, lawyerly prose because it’s clever clever. The public despise it.Byronic said:
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.0 -
Build the wall, lock her up, no obstruction no collusion, witch huntisam said:
People want a leader who says he’s going to do something simple and understandable then does it. People on here are fans of wordy, lawyerly prose because it’s clever clever. The public despise it.Byronic said:
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.
Trump plays purely on these simple messages0 -
Where are you seeing all this 'anger' out of interest? I don't think I live a sheltered life, yet I haven't met a single human being since the vote whom I could describe as 'angry' about Brexit - at worst there might be a kind of eye-rolling, bewildered annoyance.Byronic said:Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from voters
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.0 -
Pardon me.Stark_Dawning said:ZAP!!!!!!!!!
0 -
Democracy dies when self appointed London elitists like you seek to imply a result into the 2016 referendum that was not there.HYUFD said:
You are entitled to fight for your beliefs in an election or referendum campaign, you can even try and reverse the result in a subsequent election or referendum, what you are NOT entitled to do and the reason why so many Leavers (and even a few Remainers) are so angry now is refuse to implement the result of that election or referendum in the first place because you don't like it.Cyclefree said:
No, it doesn’t. For someone who claims to be so keen on democracy you seem to lack the most basic understanding of it. The concept of opposition is integral to it. It is inherent in any democracy that anyone is entitled to disagree with the verdict of the majority and seek to change it. Opposition and disagreement are legitimate, indeed necessary. They do not make you a traitor.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrtraitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:HYUFD said:
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"TraitoP.
You keep on repeating this. It is wrong. It is tiresome. It is offensive. And it diminishes you.
Your mindset is, I’m afraid to say, not that of a democrat but more akin to those who think there can only be one legitimate way of thinking about a policy. Countries that operate like this tend to be found in the Middle East and similar places. If you want to understand what is really needed for a country to be democratic, read this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/21/cultivating-democracy/. You might even learn something.
That is the way democracy dies0 -
So what does that say for Boris who is an adulterer and hugely uncharismatic?HYUFD said:
Bill Clinton, Trump, Berlusconi all adulterers, all hugely charismatic, all won.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Indeed even now Boris does better with men than women1 -
So he thinks he is very irresponsible. Where is the slander? He did not say he was more unethical, worse in conduct or fraudulent.CarlottaVance said:
Wakefield is discredited, struck off for unethical behaviour, misconduct and dishonesty and authoring fraudulent research. Let’s see if JRM repeats his remarks outside the house.dyedwoolie said:
It's not slander. If he thinks he is that irresponsible it's his factual opinion of the man. A worse striker than John Fashanu is not a slander.CarlottaVance said:
The next time JRM is interviewed he’s going to be asked to repeat that slander without the benefit of Parliamentary privilege.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a stupid and misguided opinion though
I agree hes talking shit but it's not slander.0 -
No it’s the truth.DougSeal said:
That's is a remarkably patronising and elitist view of the electorate.isam said:
People want a leader who says he’s going to do something simple and understandable then does it. People on here are fans of wordy, lawyerly prose because it’s clever clever. The public despise it.Byronic said:
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was doing her best against the odds, thinks he is a disgusting individual unfit to be PM, not because of Brexit but because of his attitude to women. I am sure she is not alone in taking this view.
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.
Nice try at turning the tables, unlucky.0 -
If made outside Parliament I have little doubt that such a statement would be deemed libellous.dyedwoolie said:
It's not slander. If he thinks he is that irresponsible it's his factual opinion of the man. A worse striker than John Fashanu is not a slander.CarlottaVance said:
The next time JRM is interviewed he’s going to be asked to repeat that slander without the benefit of Parliamentary privilege.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a stupid and misguided opinion though
He is attacking the doctor’s integrity and competence by comparing him to Wakefield and unless he can justify those statements it is a libel and a pretty serious one, too.0 -
Can one be an adulterer without being a fornicator?TheScreamingEagles said:
So Boris Johnson is not only an adulterer he's also a fornicator!DougSeal said:
They're still married. The decree absolute hasn't been granted yet. He's technically living in sin.HYUFD said:
Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from youAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
He's a class act.
Asking for a friend.0 -
In your opinion.HYUFD said:
You are entitled to fight for your beliefs in an election or referendum campaign, you can even try and reverse the result in a subsequent election or referendum, what you are NOT entitled to do and the reason why so many Leavers (and even a few Remainers) are so angry now is refuse to implement the result of that election or referendum in the first place because you don't like it.Cyclefree said:
No, it doesn’t. For someone who claims to be so keen on democracy you seem to lack the most basic understanding of it. The concept of opposition is integral to it. It is inherent in any democracy that anyone is entitled to disagree with the verdict of the majority and seek to change it. Opposition and disagreement are legitimate, indeed necessary. They do not make you a traitor.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrtraitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:HYUFD said:
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"TraitoP.
You keep on repeating this. It is wrong. It is tiresome. It is offensive. And it diminishes you.
Your mindset is, I’m afraid to say, not that of a democrat but more akin to those who think there can only be one legitimate way of thinking about a policy. Countries that operate like this tend to be found in the Middle East and similar places. If you want to understand what is really needed for a country to be democratic, read this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/07/21/cultivating-democracy/. You might even learn something.
That is the way democracy dies0 -
I think it depends on the circles you live in. I don't mean that in an insulting way. We all move in different circles and have different experiences. So amongst those I work with - who tend to have a fairly high number of consultants and people with their own businesses - Brexit is more popular than average and hence anything seen to be stopping it is a topic of conversation.Stark_Dawning said:
Where are you seeing all this 'anger' out of interest? I don't think I live a sheltered life, yet I haven't met a single human being since the vote whom I could describe as 'angry' about Brexit - at worst there might be a kind of eye-rolling, bewildered annoyance.Byronic said:Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from voters
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.0 -
I'd agree with you if Wakefield was merely a dick who people disagreed with. But as his reputation was so authoritatively trashed by scientists and regulators, comparing others negatively to him is a risky business.dyedwoolie said:
It's not slander. If he thinks he is that irresponsible it's his factual opinion of the man. A worse striker than John Fashanu is not a slander.CarlottaVance said:
The next time JRM is interviewed he’s going to be asked to repeat that slander without the benefit of Parliamentary privilege.TheScreamingEagles said:
It's a stupid and misguided opinion though0 -
Yes, seems obvious to me that’s what Boris is trying to do. His PMQ answers were just simple sound bites that often had nothing at all to do with the question.dyedwoolie said:
Build the wall, lock her up, no obstruction no collusion, witch huntisam said:
People want a leader who says he’s going to do something simple and understandable then does it. People on here are fans of wordy, lawyerly prose because it’s clever clever. The public despise it.Byronic said:
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.
Trump plays purely on these simple messages0 -
While being careful about the impact of opinion polls and accompanying hyperbole, I do believe those published this weekend are very important one way or the other. For example, what if they collectively show the Tories actually losing ground, will the Government be as eager for that mid October election? My own hunch is the lead will stay the same or go higher which generates its own huge political pressures ahead of Monday's fateful vote.isam said:
People want a leader who says he’s going to do something simple and understandable then does it. People on here are fans of wordy, lawyerly prose because it’s clever clever. The public despise it.Byronic said:
Boris will get sympathy, and maybe a patriotic slap on the back, from votersJohnO said:
Despite being of the Nabavi/Herdson/TSE/Scrapheap/Casino persuasion (albeit not resigning Tory membership), I strongly suspect that you and HYUFD are closer to calling the electoral impact correctly than 80% of the other regular posters here.Byronic said:
And yet he’s got a very hefty poll bounce.anothernick said:
This is another reason why "you can't trust Boris" is such a powerful rallying call for his opponents. He is fundamentally an untrustworthy liar, both politically and personally.CarlottaVance said:
I suspect female voters - already less keen on BREXIT than male may reach a less forgiving conclusion. While we’ve had promiscuous philanderers as PM before, have we had one with such a “colourful” private life in the age of female emancipation or tabloid journalism?GIN1138 said:
That Boris is a rascal.CarlottaVance said:I’m not sure this is quite “priced in” and no doubt will be explored more in a GE campaign:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7198455/all-of-boris-johnsons-women-a-rundown-of-the-affairs-flings-and-love-children-left-in-the-former-foreign-secretarys-wake/
Most posters on here are men I think - if there were more women we would hear more of that aspect of Johnson's character. It will be a factor in the election, perhaps a decisive one.
Most people find it quite easy, these days, to separate the politician from the person. They don’t care Corbyn.
Let’s wait for the post-Surrender Act polls. You may be disappointed
I think, more importantly, PBers are underestimating the anger out there: aimed at ALL politicians. So they don’t want Boris and they don’t want No Deal, what do they want? How are they gonna end this, if not the boris way?!
This anger, already unprecedented, will probably get worse if Labour, et al, successfully force an extension, as seems likely.0 -
Blame the FTPA. He tabled an election motion under the FTPA and Parliament chose to reject it.edmundintokyo said:
Kind of a weird confidence motion because the Prime Minister lost it but didn't resign, he's literally still there being Prime Minister.Philip_Thompson said:Please explain how it is vindictive? They were told the consequences, told it was a confidence motion and made their choice.
Are all confidence motions vindictive?
It's a post FTPA confidence motion.0 -
But there are other options available if we change our red lines. 5/6 MPs have voted for either a customs union brexit or Mays deal. The blame cannot lie with individual MPs on that basis, if collectively they have been gridlocked, it is the party leaderships who are to blame.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you vote against the only available Deal and against No Deal then by basic elimination you have to be voting against Leave altogether. After all we keep being told there is no alternative Deal available.logical_song said:
Boris voted against the Withdrawal Agreement twice.HYUFD said:
Voting against the Withdrawal Agreement and voting for extension over No Deal by definition makes you a traitor to democracy and the Leave voteOnlyLivingBoy said:
How do you define betraying the Leave vote? Voting against May's deal (like the current PM, twice)? Voting to rule out a no deal Brexit (that was never on the ballot paper)? What, exactly, do you mean?HYUFD said:
Those who betrayed the Leave vote despite voting for the referendum and to trigger article 50 are traitors to democracy and I will continue to describe them as suchOnlyLivingBoy said:
May I suggest that referring to Remainers as "traitors" is inappropriate. You should take the opportunity to apologise and moderate your language, or perhaps have a cold shower.HYUFD said:
No, half the Johnson family voted Remain and it is clear Jo is a diehard Remainer who refused to accept the will of the people.Nigel_Foremain said:
How can you even try and spin this as something positive, it is PR disaster for Johnson.HYUFD said:Jo Johnson is a diehard Remainer who voted for EUref2 and did not even vote for the Withdrawal Agreement.
It is good for Boris that he is showing he will take on the diehard Remainers trying to deny the will of the people even if one is his own brother
Boris is such a first class wanker and liar that he cannot even retain the loyalty of his brother. I wonder when Johnson senior will disown him!
To reassure Leavers it is great news for Boris that even if it costs his brother his political career Boris will not back down from taking on the diehard Remainer traitors and Corbyn who refuse to respect the Leave vote
"Traitor to democracy"? That (a) has no meaning and (b) isn't what you said.
Seriously, don't call people traitors. It's language like this that creates the breeding ground for violent extremism, which has already claimed the life of an MP.
The referendum didn't mention No Deal, we've never been offered a democratic vote on it.0
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