Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
That is exactly the plan
Thats what i thought.
But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
Who knows. Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
There's no such thing as "first try" as Brown showed in 2010. Either someone else can command Parliament, in which case they become PM, or nobody can in which case we need an election. Otherwise until then the existing PM remains in situ until there is either a clear alternative or an election that generates a clear alternative [and if the election is inconclusive the PM remains until a conclusion is reached].
True, but what that leaves unaddressed is the situation - not now impossible - in which the PM resigns - perhaps the only way of fulfilling his promise of not asking for an extension - but does not name a successor to HM the Queen because there isn't one in his opinion that could command a majority - just as he can't.
(While parliament perhaps declines to VONC a non existent PM and declines to agree to an election).
Any thoughts?
Could Boris resign and be the next PM?
Plainly yes, but my question still stands. Can anyone solve it?
The whip removal was I think the big error, without that hed almost certainly have got a one line bill for a GE through, mann is already calling for Corbyn to 'go early' and Hoey and a couple others (elphicke, hermon etc) could have been bought off
Elphicke does not need to be bought off. He should not be counted as an Independent for these votes, as he is a careerist Conservative who will do whatever BJohnson asks. Sadly for him he is due in court tomorrow.
The whip removal was I think the big error, without that hed almost certainly have got a one line bill for a GE through, mann is already calling for Corbyn to 'go early' and Hoey and a couple others (elphicke, hermon etc) could have been bought off
If/when he gets the election the whip withdrawal will be important in getting BXP voters to vote Con.
Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
That is exactly the plan
Thats what i thought.
But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
Who knows. Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
There's no such thing as "first try" as Brown showed in 2010. Either someone else can command Parliament, in which case they become PM, or nobody can in which case we need an election. Otherwise until then the existing PM remains in situ until there is either a clear alternative or an election that generates a clear alternative [and if the election is inconclusive the PM remains until a conclusion is reached].
True, but what that leaves unaddressed is the situation - not now impossible - in which the PM resigns - perhaps the only way of fulfilling his promise of not asking for an extension - but does not name a successor to HM the Queen because there isn't one in his opinion that could command a majority - just as he can't.
(While parliament perhaps declines to VONC a non existent PM and declines to agree to an election).
Any thoughts?
If I was Boris I would "write two letters" and send BOTH to the European Council.
In one letter I would copy and paste the letter Parliament has drafted in the bill.
In the other letter I would write that Parliament has declined to pass any deal, there is no intention to ratify any deal by Parliament and that this is just messing around so he does not want an extension but is legally obliged to ask . . . but if they want to reject the request he would understand and respect that.
EU would extend no doubt but it would be clear who the request has come from.
Oct - 2.52 / 2.58 Nov - 3.05 / 3.7 Dec - 4.0 / 5.9
I got on Dec at 14.0 this morning.
But my main play is laying this year.
Really can't see a December election.
Weather's terrible. Is dark by 4pm. Most people are more concerned about Christmas and New Year.
December, January and February are all out, IMO.
November is very tricky too really.
I think it either happens in October or it's off until April/May and what the hell happens in the six months between October and April is anyone's guess.
As I said earlier, If there's no GE in October Boris will resign as PM and advise HMQ to invite Corbyn to form a government. Then he can fight the next GE as LOTO.
Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
That is exactly the plan
Thats what i thought.
But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
Who knows. Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
There's no such thing as "first try" as Brown showed in 2010. Either someone else can command Parliament, in which case they become PM, or nobody can in which case we need an election. Otherwise until then the existing PM remains in situ until there is either a clear alternative or an election that generates a clear alternative [and if the election is inconclusive the PM remains until a conclusion is reached].
True, but what that leaves unaddressed is the situation - not now impossible - in which the PM resigns - perhaps the only way of fulfilling his promise of not asking for an extension - but does not name a successor to HM the Queen because there isn't one in his opinion that could command a majority - just as he can't.
(While parliament perhaps declines to VONC a non existent PM and declines to agree to an election).
Any thoughts?
If I was Boris I would "write two letters" and send BOTH to the European Council.
In one letter I would copy and paste the letter Parliament has drafted in the bill.
In the other letter I would write that Parliament has declined to pass any deal, there is no intention to ratify any deal by Parliament and that this is just messing around so he does not want an extension but is legally obliged to ask . . . but if they want to reject the request he would understand and respect that.
EU would extend no doubt but it would be clear who the request has come from.
They do speak English and read the UK media you know.
PM seems to be suggesting he will resign if we're not heading out on the 31/10.
If the Opposition continues to block an election then it's what the logic of his position dictates. He can then fight an eventual election as Leader of the Opposition and blame Corbyn (assuming that he's then PM, although AFAIK there's no bar on Johnson recommending the Queen call for somebody else) for the extension.
The other two options - asking for the extension himself, or breaking the law - are both electoral suicide, and the latter would presumably be subject to defeat in both the UK and EU courts in any event.
Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
That is exactly the plan
Thats what i thought.
But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
Who knows. Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
There's no such thing as "first try" as Brown showed in 2010. Either someone else can command Parliament, in which case they become PM, or nobody can in which case we need an election. Otherwise until then the existing PM remains in situ until there is either a clear alternative or an election that generates a clear alternative [and if the election is inconclusive the PM remains until a conclusion is reached].
True, but what that leaves unaddressed is the situation - not now impossible - in which the PM resigns - perhaps the only way of fulfilling his promise of not asking for an extension - but does not name a successor to HM the Queen because there isn't one in his opinion that could command a majority - just as he can't.
(While parliament perhaps declines to VONC a non existent PM and declines to agree to an election).
Any thoughts?
If I was Boris I would "write two letters" and send BOTH to the European Council.
In one letter I would copy and paste the letter Parliament has drafted in the bill.
In the other letter I would write that Parliament has declined to pass any deal, there is no intention to ratify any deal by Parliament and that this is just messing around so he does not want an extension but is legally obliged to ask . . . but if they want to reject the request he would understand and respect that.
EU would extend no doubt but it would be clear who the request has come from.
They do speak English and read the UK media you know.
The whip removal was I think the big error, without that hed almost certainly have got a one line bill for a GE through, mann is already calling for Corbyn to 'go early' and Hoey and a couple others (elphicke, hermon etc) could have been bought off
If/when he gets the election the whip withdrawal will be important in getting BXP voters to vote Con.
Nope, as we face the final showdown battle in the war with the diehard Remainers Boris has the public increasingly on his side as we prepare for the last battle and with the Tories ahead in every poll, any Tory MP who refuses to back Brexit Deal or No Deal is rightly now going to be thrown out of the party and unable to stand as a Tory candidate again
As I said earlier, If there's no GE in October Boris will resign as PM and advise HMQ to invite Corbyn to form a government. Then he can fight the next GE as LOTO.
Less than a week ago all the Conservatives here were saying that BJ would rather be taken away in a straightjacket than hand the keys of No 10 to Jeremy Corbyn.
Of the Brexit outcomes British voters think are still realistically possible, a plurality of 21% now prefer No Deal YouGov finds today.
Tied second are leaving the EU on a renegotiated Deal as Boris wants and Remaining in the EU after all on 19% each.
12% back a soft Brexit staying in the single market and customs union, 10% back EUref2 and just 5% back the date of Brexit being delayed past 31st October and 2% back May's existing Brexit Deal.
Leave voters split 41% for No Deal, 31% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 9% for soft Brexit. Remain voters split 38% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit.
Tory voters split 42% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal, 35% for No Deal and 8% for soft Brexit, Labour voters split 35% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 15% for soft Brexit, LD voters split 42% for Remain, 16% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit and Brexit Party voters split 59% for No Deal, 30% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 5% for soft Brexit.
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Nope, as we face the final showdown battle in the war with the diehard Remainers Boris has the public increasingly on his side as we prepare for the last battle and with the Tories ahead in every poll, any Tory MP who refuses to back Brexit Deal or No Deal is rightly now going to be thrown out of the party and unable to stand as a Tory candidate again
Boris definitely will not be asking for an extension. Its resign and put Corbyn into bat, run as the insurgent alongside Farage seems to be the strategy. Or fire Cummings!
Of the Brexit outcomes British voters think are still realistically possible, a plurality of 21% now prefer No Deal YouGov finds today.
Tied second are leaving the EU on a renegotiated Deal as Boris wants and Remaining in the EU after all on 19% each.
12% back a soft Brexit staying in the single market and customs union, 10% back EUref2 and just 5% back the date of Brexit being delayed past 31st October and 2% back May's existing Brexit Deal.
Leave voters split 41% for No Deal, 31% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 9% for soft Brexit. Remain voters split 38% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit.
Tory voters split 42% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal, 35% for No Deal and 8% for soft Brexit, Labour voters split 35% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 15% for soft Brexit, LD voters split 42% for Remain, 16% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit and Brexit Party voters split 59% for No Deal, 30% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 5% for soft Brexit.
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
"Now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris".
Excellent. Are you guaranteeing no more resignations, defections or expulsions then?
What an earth possessed them to do that? (Boris' advisors, not the police)
It make him look tough and ready to push things forward
What a load of arse. If you're making a big political speech about Europe, drafting in a backdrop of police cadets is not a good look. Makes him look quite the opposite of tough.
Nope, as we face the final showdown battle in the war with the diehard Remainers Boris has the public increasingly on his side as we prepare for the last battle and with the Tories ahead in every poll, any Tory MP who refuses to back Brexit Deal or No Deal is rightly now going to be thrown out of the party and unable to stand as a Tory candidate again
"final showdown", "last battle", "war". Are we expectng the Rapture as well? Are you okay?
Oct - 2.52 / 2.58 Nov - 3.05 / 3.7 Dec - 4.0 / 5.9
I got on Dec at 14.0 this morning.
But my main play is laying this year.
Really can't see a December election.
Weather's terrible. Is dark by 4pm. Most people are more concerned about Christmas and New Year.
December, January and February are all out, IMO.
November is very tricky too really.
I think it either happens in October or it's off until April/May and what the hell happens in the six months between October and April is anyone's guess.
It’s very possible.
If Johnson resigns and puts Corbyn into bat, and then demands an immediate VONC, he'll almost certainly get his election. There are too many MPs outside of the Labour Party who are too vehemently opposed to Corbyn in power to vote to keep him there. After all, as far as the Remainers are concerned they only need a PM in place who's ready and willing to ask for the A50 extension - and Corbyn will do that, because obviously to fail to do so would destroy the Labour Party. Beyond that, he's of no further use to all those who would otherwise oppose him politically.
The VONC would not affect Corbyn's ability to go to the EU summit and ask for the extension so, unless the Commons thinks there's a realistic chance of the EU27 saying no, there's no harm for the Remainers in voting him out immediately: as the incumbent, he would stay in as caretaker until election day. Therefore, if Labour declines to back an October 15th poll then November looks pretty much nailed on.
Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
That is exactly the plan
Thats what i thought.
But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
Who knows. Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
There's no such thing as "first try" as Brown showed in 2010. Either someone else can command Parliament, in which case they become PM, or nobody can in which case we need an election. Otherwise until then the existing PM remains in situ until there is either a clear alternative or an election that generates a clear alternative [and if the election is inconclusive the PM remains until a conclusion is reached].
True, but what that leaves unaddressed is the situation - not now impossible - in which the PM resigns - perhaps the only way of fulfilling his promise of not asking for an extension - but does not name a successor to HM the Queen because there isn't one in his opinion that could command a majority - just as he can't.
(While parliament perhaps declines to VONC a non existent PM and declines to agree to an election).
Any thoughts?
If I was Boris I would "write two letters" and send BOTH to the European Council.
In one letter I would copy and paste the letter Parliament has drafted in the bill.
In the other letter I would write that Parliament has declined to pass any deal, there is no intention to ratify any deal by Parliament and that this is just messing around so he does not want an extension but is legally obliged to ask . . . but if they want to reject the request he would understand and respect that.
EU would extend no doubt but it would be clear who the request has come from.
They do speak English and read the UK media you know.
So?
So it doesn’t matter how many letters Boris writes, or whether they’re in English or Mandarin, the EU knows exactly what’s happening in the UK. Your comment was utterly crass and stupid, but that’s what we’ve come to expect from you.
Johnson just isn’t up to it and he seems to be realising it.
Utter crap, Boris is taking on the diehard Remainer fanatics like you once and for all in a way May never was, you wanted a war, boy have you now got one!!
Nope, as we face the final showdown battle in the war with the diehard Remainers Boris has the public increasingly on his side as we prepare for the last battle and with the Tories ahead in every poll, any Tory MP who refuses to back Brexit Deal or No Deal is rightly now going to be thrown out of the party and unable to stand as a Tory candidate again
You have lost it as has Boris
Both of you are heading for defeat
No, we are heading for victory, even without you BigG
Of the Brexit outcomes British voters think are still realistically possible, a plurality of 21% now prefer No Deal YouGov finds today.
Tied second are leaving the EU on a renegotiated Deal as Boris wants and Remaining in the EU after all on 19% each.
12% back a soft Brexit staying in the single market and customs union, 10% back EUref2 and just 5% back the date of Brexit being delayed past 31st October and 2% back May's existing Brexit Deal.
Leave voters split 41% for No Deal, 31% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 9% for soft Brexit. Remain voters split 38% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit.
Tory voters split 42% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal, 35% for No Deal and 8% for soft Brexit, Labour voters split 35% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 15% for soft Brexit, LD voters split 42% for Remain, 16% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit and Brexit Party voters split 59% for No Deal, 30% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 5% for soft Brexit.
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
Of the Brexit outcomes British voters think are still realistically possible, a plurality of 21% now prefer No Deal YouGov finds today.
Tied second are leaving the EU on a renegotiated Deal as Boris wants and Remaining in the EU after all on 19% each.
12% back a soft Brexit staying in the single market and customs union, 10% back EUref2 and just 5% back the date of Brexit being delayed past 31st October and 2% back May's existing Brexit Deal.
Leave voters split 41% for No Deal, 31% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 9% for soft Brexit. Remain voters split 38% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit.
Tory voters split 42% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal, 35% for No Deal and 8% for soft Brexit, Labour voters split 35% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 15% for soft Brexit, LD voters split 42% for Remain, 16% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit and Brexit Party voters split 59% for No Deal, 30% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 5% for soft Brexit.
.... the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal
Is that strictly accurate? As with May many Tories will be 'fully behind [a] Brexit deal' in theory but not like the look of the one they get. Won't we need to see what deal Boris achieves and see if all remaining Tory MPs back it before we declare them 'fully behind' it? Are Baker and Francois behind it? Clearly they are not behind any deal, so until we see the deal they cannot be assumed to be in support for starters.
Of the Brexit outcomes British voters think are still realistically possible, a plurality of 21% now prefer No Deal YouGov finds today.
Tied second are leaving the EU on a renegotiated Deal as Boris wants and Remaining in the EU after all on 19% each.
12% back a soft Brexit staying in the single market and customs union, 10% back EUref2 and just 5% back the date of Brexit being delayed past 31st October and 2% back May's existing Brexit Deal.
Leave voters split 41% for No Deal, 31% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 9% for soft Brexit. Remain voters split 38% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit.
Tory voters split 42% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal, 35% for No Deal and 8% for soft Brexit, Labour voters split 35% for Remain, 18% for EUref2 and 15% for soft Brexit, LD voters split 42% for Remain, 16% for EUref2 and 14% for soft Brexit and Brexit Party voters split 59% for No Deal, 30% for a Boris renegotiated Brexit Deal and 5% for soft Brexit.
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
Make Steve Smith a French citizen and ineligible for test cricket for Australia ?
Pretty sure you can play as a dual citizen, alas, so we need more. Plus that would just mean the French cricket team was good enough to be a test team through him alone, and still beat us.
Comments
Hope you both have a nice time.
https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1169648532380405760
Futtocks is a marvellous word, though.
And Gove should assemble the men in grey suits...
In one letter I would copy and paste the letter Parliament has drafted in the bill.
In the other letter I would write that Parliament has declined to pass any deal, there is no intention to ratify any deal by Parliament and that this is just messing around so he does not want an extension but is legally obliged to ask . . . but if they want to reject the request he would understand and respect that.
EU would extend no doubt but it would be clear who the request has come from.
He's having a nervous breakdown on live TV
This rally with five-oh looks ludicrous. Dark, sinister and risible.
Major did the EXACT SAME THING which Boris's critics seem to conveniently forget.
The other two options - asking for the extension himself, or breaking the law - are both electoral suicide, and the latter would presumably be subject to defeat in both the UK and EU courts in any event.
Will Amber be part of a traffic light coalition?
(My coat is right next to me)
One of the lady officers has just had to sit down, apparently unwell/sickened.
It really is very weird stuff.
Bozo the apparent great media performer looks like he’ll be wetting himself anytime soon.
Both of you are heading for defeat
Or fire Cummings!
And as with most things that 'they say', it is total bollox.
But every so often it isn't.
Excellent. Are you guaranteeing no more resignations, defections or expulsions then?
If you're making a big political speech about Europe, drafting in a backdrop of police cadets is not a good look. Makes him look quite the opposite of tough.
The VONC would not affect Corbyn's ability to go to the EU summit and ask for the extension so, unless the Commons thinks there's a realistic chance of the EU27 saying no, there's no harm for the Remainers in voting him out immediately: as the incumbent, he would stay in as caretaker until election day. Therefore, if Labour declines to back an October 15th poll then November looks pretty much nailed on.
NEW THREAD
Has been for some time.
It was truly horrible viewing.
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
You are a one!