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  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    PClipp said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Also, leaving your wife (because you were cheating on her yet again) when she's being treated for cancer. He's a class act.
    Boris' wife was treated for cancer after their divorce, very distasteful post from you
    They're still married. The decree absolute hasn't been granted yet. He's technically living in sin.
    So Boris Johnson is not only an adulterer he's also a fornicator!
    Can one be an adulterer without being a fornicator?
    Asking for a friend.
    You can but try, Mr cole.
    Who was it committed adultery in his heart?
    Probably quite a number of people, but President Carter fessed up.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    But, but, surely the Lords can filibuster it or something?

    Oh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Scott_P said:
    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
    Maybe he will resign (As PM, not Leader of the Tories).

    Corbyn will become PM but won't be able to get anything through whatsoever (No QS). I expect the sight of Corbyn walking into 10 Downing St before an inevitable GE will fill everyone vaguely right of centre with absolubte horror.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Am I one of the few who things an October election (probably the 15th as mooted) is just better?

    Before the nights really start to draw in. Before the change back to GMT.
    November really is a bad time to have an election, though I recognise that a pre 31st October one is now looking unlikely.

  • Blame the FTPA. He tabled an election motion under the FTPA and Parliament chose to reject it.

    It's a post FTPA confidence motion.

    No, a post-FTPA confidence motion is a motion that says you have no confidence in the government, and the process after it passes is that someone else can try to form a government.

    If he thinks the motion he was defeated on was equivalent of a VONC, he should resign and recommend either the Leader of the Opposition, who may well be able to form a government, or another Tory like Theresa May who had the confidence of the House from the same set of MPs for a long time before she resigned of her own volition.
    No he should seek an election which has been an alternative for centuries now.
    Not since the FTPA, and not always historically either.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
  • I might be selling tickets for days 3,4, and 5 for the rest of this test.

    £10 ono
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited September 2019
    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Benn's bill needs to be passed - anything that disrupts this Parliamentary session threatens it.

    Which is why the plan was get this Act past then move on to stage 2 (whatever that is).

  • Resigning isn't the consequence of a confidence loss.

    Of course it is, if you can't call an election. You don't just stay in the job until further notice.
    Why not?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    kinabalu said:

    The risk to Labour is if Cummings can repeat his trick of getting pissed off voters who normally dont vote to turn out. Harder to do the second time of course.

    Big point this. The 3m. My GE hopes for GTTO rest to a large extent on these people not bothering this time.
    the harder part is cui bono ? BoJo or Farage ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Maybe wor Dom wants a Guy Fawkes day election. The symbology would be interesting.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Corbyn wont get the confidence of the house, hes terrified of being marginalized by a caretaker and Boris taking over as LOTO
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    edited September 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
    Maybe he will resign (As PM, not Leader of the Tories).

    Corbyn will become PM but won't be able to get anything through whatsoever (No QS). I expect the sight of Corbyn walking into 10 Downing St before an inevitable GE will fill everyone vaguely right of centre with absolubte horror.
    If Boris intends to stick with his claim that he will not request an extension I suspect a resignation of the type you describe is on the cards.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    kinabalu said:

    Do you really think the public are that stupid? Saddening if you are right.

    I'm not a big fan of the public but I would baulk at stupid.

    I'd more say shallow, intellectually lazy, and apolitical.

    Thus prone to be attracted to 'simple' and 'entertaining' over something more challenging.

    Johnson could benefit big time from this. I think he probably will.
    Yeah me too. A Johnson majority government.
  • At this point the opposition should just put Corbyn in and send him off to change the PD into Norway then pass it subject to a referendum. They've got the votes now with all those ex-Tories. Defuse the whole "get it over with" thing, make the *Tory* vote the one for keeping brexit indecision going forever.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    But will this mean JRM loses money? I wouldn't like to think off that happening to him!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    How do those dates work.

    28th November and 5th December just about make sense but the others don't
  • The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    The subsection of the electorate likely to be upset by it already have hard enough views. Predictions that the rest of the country would join them in indignation have often been made since 2016, and never come true.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216
    edited September 2019

    At this point the opposition should just put Corbyn in and send him off to change the PD into Norway then pass it subject to a referendum. They've got the votes now with all those ex-Tories. Defuse the whole "get it over with" thing, make the *Tory* vote the one for keeping Brexit indecision going forever.

    Don't be silly @edmundintokyo, noone is looking for a moderate way out. For 99% of twitter it's remain or die :D

    *Edit - Note that is "subject to a referendum" which would work too at the moment and probably acceptable to the FBPE lot. Right now they don't care about that though, right now the game in town is to attempt to tank Johnson's poll ratings by making him sign the extension letter.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
    Only the extension, the EU can't demand an election as a condition. If Boris were to say there will be no election, the EU might decline to offer an extension at all.
  • Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    Thats what i thought.

    But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
    Who knows.
    Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
    Only the extension, the EU can't demand an election as a condition. If Boris were to say there will be no election, the EU might decline to offer an extension at all.
    I don’t think the EU would make such a demand.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    Thats what i thought.

    But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
    Who knows.
    Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
    Phil Hammond.
  • The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    Agreed. Whilst the EU dictating GE timing will not stop Remainer MPs fawning over Brussels it will make it easier for Cummings to motivate voters for Boris.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    The subsection of the electorate likely to be upset by it already have hard enough views. Predictions that the rest of the country would join them in indignation have often been made since 2016, and never come true.
    The EU haven't tried to tell a member nation it must hold elections before
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    Pulpstar said:

    At this point the opposition should just put Corbyn in and send him off to change the PD into Norway then pass it subject to a referendum. They've got the votes now with all those ex-Tories. Defuse the whole "get it over with" thing, make the *Tory* vote the one for keeping Brexit indecision going forever.

    Don't be silly @edmundintokyo, noone is looking for a moderate way out. For 99% of twitter it's remain or die :D

    *Edit - Note that is "subject to a referendum" which would work too at the moment and probably acceptable to the FBPE lot. Right now they don't care about that though, right now the game in town is to attempt to tank Johnson's poll ratings by making him sign the extension letter.
    You are learning.

    Slowly.

    But you are learning.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    7th or later hopefully. One of mine comes of age on 6th
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    Thats what i thought.

    But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
    Who knows.
    Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
    Kissing hands settles the Betfair market !
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
    Only the extension, the EU can't demand an election as a condition. If Boris were to say there will be no election, the EU might decline to offer an extension at all.
    No, but they are working with Starmer who can force an election.

  • Resigning isn't the consequence of a confidence loss.

    Of course it is, if you can't call an election. You don't just stay in the job until further notice.
    Why not?
    Because the House doesn't have confidence in you, and your sole claim to being Prime Minister rests in having the confidence of the House. Meanwhile there are several people who, given a chance to test it, *may* have the confidence of the House.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    Thats what i thought.

    But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
    Who knows.
    Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
    Blackford?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Corbyn wont get the confidence of the house, hes terrified of being marginalized by a caretaker and Boris taking over as LOTO
    Ken Clarke as caretaker leader seems a good answer to your objections.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508

    Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    Thats what i thought.

    But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
    Who knows.
    Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?

    Would a Ken-Harriet dream ticket command the confidence of the house?

    319 or so required?

    It might you know.

    It just might.
  • I appreciate BJ would hardly be expecting the Commission to chuck him a bone.. but this must hardly be welcome given the current legislative situation here..

    https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1169622498738147334

    Tgats going to harden the Brexiteer vote, the EU demanding 'regime change'
    Correct. It means one is almost certain to be granted though, which makes a Brexit this year (in betting terms) a very attractive lay now.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Pulpstar said:

    At this point the opposition should just put Corbyn in and send him off to change the PD into Norway then pass it subject to a referendum. They've got the votes now with all those ex-Tories. Defuse the whole "get it over with" thing, make the *Tory* vote the one for keeping Brexit indecision going forever.

    Don't be silly @edmundintokyo, noone is looking for a moderate way out. For 99% of twitter it's remain or die :D

    *Edit - Note that is "subject to a referendum" which would work too at the moment and probably acceptable to the FBPE lot. Right now they don't care about that though, right now the game in town is to attempt to tank Johnson's poll ratings by making him sign the extension letter.
    You are learning.

    Slowly.

    But you are learning.
    That the game right now isn't really about leave or remain but trying to humiliate Johnson :) ?
  • Believe it or not, he’s someone I used to respect, and i believe he was also respected across the House. Mhairi Black was even very complimentary about him.

    I’m astonished at how he’s turned out.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    If we must have Conservative MPs we should want them to be like Jo Johnson. The kind of people who are now voluntarily leaving the Conservative Party will reshape it and in due course the nation.

    If we must have Labour MPs we should want them to be like Luciana Berger. The fact that today she's ended up in the Liberal Democrats simply due to institutional antisemeticism is appalling.

    With our highly centralised democracy and FPTP Labour and Conservative parties are at least part of the social fabric and perhaps de facto organs of state. They are both in deep trouble with no sign ( outside Scotland ) of the free market generating a replacement.

    Yes, this is exactly right. People have been making short termist decisions for three years. But what will happen is we will have a hard right party that is as against the EU as the SNP is against the UK, and a far left party completely hostile to anyone of the wrong tribe.

    This is why it is so critical the Liberal Democrats do well at the next election.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Corbyn wont get the confidence of the house, hes terrified of being marginalized by a caretaker and Boris taking over as LOTO
    Ken Clarke as caretaker leader seems a good answer to your objections.
    And who will be in his cabinet? What programme of government will he be following? Boris will be LOTO, what is Corbyns position? Blackford loses his 3 questions, they go to Corbyn. Will HMQ appoint a leader just to pass am extension and call an election?
  • If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
    Only the extension, the EU can't demand an election as a condition. If Boris were to say there will be no election, the EU might decline to offer an extension at all.
    I don’t think the EU would make such a demand.
    It’s paywalled so I can’t see who the Telegraph is saying is responsible for the claim but as it’s “Brussels” it might be chaps in the bars near the Berlaymont - I very much doubt any official would be on the record saying that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    Pulp

    It’s about securing Benn AND humiliating the odious Johnson. Two birds, one stone.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
    Only the extension, the EU can't demand an election as a condition. If Boris were to say there will be no election, the EU might decline to offer an extension at all.
    I don’t think the EU would make such a demand.
    I'm basing it on the article which says they will. I am dubious
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Corbyn wont get the confidence of the house, hes terrified of being marginalized by a caretaker and Boris taking over as LOTO
    Ken Clarke as caretaker leader seems a good answer to your objections.
    Worth looking back a few weeks and remembering that Ken and Harriet have already agreed to such a plan...
  • This should be the death knell for an October election - no one is voting for it until an extension actually takes effect (not just the bill becoming law)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1169614147811758080?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1169614147811758080&ref_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-49590838
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    I might be selling tickets for days 3,4, and 5 for the rest of this test.

    £10 ono

    For the lot ?
    Day 5 might be a tough sell at this point.
  • The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    The subsection of the electorate likely to be upset by it already have hard enough views. Predictions that the rest of the country would join them in indignation have often been made since 2016, and never come true.
    The EU haven't tried to tell a member nation it must hold elections before
    We had all the same noises before March about how an extension request would have to have a strong justification like an election or second referendum.

  • Resigning isn't the consequence of a confidence loss.

    Of course it is, if you can't call an election. You don't just stay in the job until further notice.
    Why not?
    Because the House doesn't have confidence in you, and your sole claim to being Prime Minister rests in having the confidence of the House. Meanwhile there are several people who, given a chance to test it, *may* have the confidence of the House.
    If nobody clearly has confidence then the law is we have an election to sort it out. Let the several others either demonstrate a majority or agree to an election.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2019


    It’s paywalled so I can’t see who the Telegraph is saying is responsible for the claim but as it’s “Brussels” it might be chaps in the bars near the Berlaymont - I very much doubt any official would be on the record saying that.

    Is it Bruno Waterfield because he has a senior EU source who says all kinds of really weird things - I think their relationship may involve mescaline.
  • If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Yes it would

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    If Boris loses on Monday, the EU making an extension consequential on an election being held after the offer hed be better off taking it off the table and telling the EU no election

    Benn bill means he must accept if Parliament wants him to.
    Only the extension, the EU can't demand an election as a condition. If Boris were to say there will be no election, the EU might decline to offer an extension at all.
    I don’t think the EU would make such a demand.
    It’s paywalled so I can’t see who the Telegraph is saying is responsible for the claim but as it’s “Brussels” it might be chaps in the bars near the Berlaymont - I very much doubt any official would be on the record saying that.
    Perhaps it's a report phoned in by their erstwhile Brussels correspondent ?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    The EU have negotiated a deal. A deal that is this far and no further. If you don't agree this deal then it will be a no-deal brexit. They have always been clear on this. They have not changed their stance at all.

    There is no "overplaying the hand" there is no "once they realise that the UK means no-deal then the EU will capitulate", this is not a game of poker.

    Why haven't you got this yet?
  • Nigelb said:

    I might be selling tickets for days 3,4, and 5 for the rest of this test.

    £10 ono

    For the lot ?
    Day 5 might be a tough sell at this point.
    Yeah, the fact that Stokes and YJB have or are on the verge of breaking down might be a tough sell.

    Christ it is cold here.
  • I might be selling tickets for days 3,4, and 5 for the rest of this test.

    £10 ono

    You talking about cricket, or the public gallery in the Commons?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Corbyn wont get the confidence of the house, hes terrified of being marginalized by a caretaker and Boris taking over as LOTO
    Ken Clarke as caretaker leader seems a good answer to your objections.
    And who will be in his cabinet? What programme of government will he be following? Boris will be LOTO, what is Corbyns position? Blackford loses his 3 questions, they go to Corbyn. Will HMQ appoint a leader just to pass am extension and call an election?
    Not HMQ's business. As far as the rest of the questions are concerned, they're all capable of being dealt with.
  • At this point the opposition should just put Corbyn in and send him off to change the PD into Norway then pass it subject to a referendum. They've got the votes now with all those ex-Tories. Defuse the whole "get it over with" thing, make the *Tory* vote the one for keeping brexit indecision going forever.

    As I predicted at the start of year, the net effect of the crass dickheadery of the ERG will be either a softer Brexit (if they’re lucky) or No Brexit.

    Total fucking nobs.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2019


    If nobody clearly has confidence then the law is we have an election to sort it out. Let the several others either demonstrate a majority or agree to an election.

    Is the PM taking soundings to determine who may command a majority? Because that's what his job is, if he really thinks he's lost a confidence vote.

    Of course he doesn't really think he's lost a confidence vote, it's just a powerplay.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616

    Scott_P said:
    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.
    And if he resigns one minute to eleven on the 31st October? The incoming PM - whoever that is - will have to cope with No Deal Brexit.

    And how Boris and Cummins would laugh......
  • The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    The subsection of the electorate likely to be upset by it already have hard enough views. Predictions that the rest of the country would join them in indignation have often been made since 2016, and never come true.
    The EU haven't tried to tell a member nation it must hold elections before
    I doubt they’re saying that now.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Is the FTPA more or less evil than VAR?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    Dadge said:

    Why doesn't Opposition vonc Boris now, take over govt, stop prorogation (why are we still proroguing anyway?), delay Brexit, and call GE on its terms?

    Corbyn wont get the confidence of the house, hes terrified of being marginalized by a caretaker and Boris taking over as LOTO
    Ken Clarke as caretaker leader seems a good answer to your objections.
    And who will be in his cabinet? What programme of government will he be following? Boris will be LOTO, what is Corbyns position? Blackford loses his 3 questions, they go to Corbyn. Will HMQ appoint a leader just to pass am extension and call an election?
    Not HMQ's business. As far as the rest of the questions are concerned, they're all capable of being dealt with.
    As HMQ has to appoint him very much her business. Remember after 2010 election she needed assurances of the stability of the proposed government, she would need some idea of what is being proposed to appoint someone with no party as PM on the nod of a divided parliament. There are constitutional issues here.
  • The EUs position is odd, if it is a demand then they are overplaying their hand and the British electorate will be hardened against them. 'Who the hell do they think they are' mentality will creep in

    The subsection of the electorate likely to be upset by it already have hard enough views. Predictions that the rest of the country would join them in indignation have often been made since 2016, and never come true.
    The EU haven't tried to tell a member nation it must hold elections before
    I doubt they’re saying that now.


    It’s paywalled so I can’t see who the Telegraph is saying is responsible for the claim but as it’s “Brussels” it might be chaps in the bars near the Berlaymont - I very much doubt any official would be on the record saying that.

    Is it Bruno Waterfield because he has a senior EU source who says all kinds of really weird things - I think their relationship may involve mescaline.
    No, it’s not him.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Legal question: where in the Fixed Term Parliament Act does it state that only the LOTO can bring forward a VONC? I can’t see anything.

    Therefore conceivably Boris could try and VONC himself and then prorogue parliament therefore preventing another government from being formed?
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    It feels like Boris' best choice is to stay on for PM as long as possible, put as many populist bills forward between now and the last date he can, fight a legal challenge on not sending the latter, then resigning with an explosive resignation letter to HM at the last possible moment. Resigning as PM but staying on as Tory leader.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Legal question: where in the Fixed Term Parliament Act does it state that only the LOTO can bring forward a VONC? I can’t see anything.

    Therefore conceivably Boris could try and VONC himself and then prorogue parliament therefore preventing another government from being formed?

    I think it's a standing order issue. A VONC by the leader of the opposition has priority over all other business.
  • So far the Battle of Ipsus has developed in a way not necessarily to the Prime Minister's advantage.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    Legal question: where in the Fixed Term Parliament Act does it state that only the LOTO can bring forward a VONC? I can’t see anything.

    Therefore conceivably Boris could try and VONC himself and then prorogue parliament therefore preventing another government from being formed?

    I think it's a standing order issue. A VONC by the leader of the opposition has priority over all other business.
    Ah. Thank you. So nothing stopping Boris from doing the above?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084

    The challenge for any GE is how Boris dissolves (or does not) during the campaign.

    Remember what happened to Theresa May. And Boris isn’t exactly renowned for putting himself front and centre of debates either.

    I would take any opinion poll with a pinch of salt. Public opinions are very volatile.

    The Tories could get 20% or 40%.

    40% is not on the cards.
  • Scott_P said:

    Am i being stupid, but whats stopping labour saying no again? Given the bill that basically says Boris MUST call an exention then he'd be forced to resign by his own words.

    That is exactly the plan
    Thats what i thought.

    But what happens then?? Who the f-knows. corbyn gets to be PM I guess?
    Who knows.
    Maybe Corbyn gets first try and fails (Swinson against). Then maybe Ken Clarke?
    Blackford?
    That would be ultra bantz squared.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Legal question: where in the Fixed Term Parliament Act does it state that only the LOTO can bring forward a VONC? I can’t see anything.

    Therefore conceivably Boris could try and VONC himself and then prorogue parliament therefore preventing another government from being formed?

    I think it's a standing order issue. A VONC by the leader of the opposition has priority over all other business.
    Ah. Thank you. So nothing stopping Boris from doing the above?
    And the Act doesn't say 14 sitting days!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    edited September 2019


    If nobody clearly has confidence then the law is we have an election to sort it out. Let the several others either demonstrate a majority or agree to an election.

    Is the PM taking soundings to determine who may command a majority? Because that's what his job is, if he really thinks he's lost a confidence vote.

    Of course he doesn't really think he's lost a confidence vote, it's just a powerplay.
    If he's lost a confidence vote, the the FTPA says there's 14 days for another confidence vote. if not election time.

    I don't think it's up the Boris to sort that out (ie the second confidence vote)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216
    Scott_P said:
    I think that's smart tactics from No 10, the Benn bill will have RA by that point so Corbyn (Not Starmer !) objection last time round is fulfilled.
    If Johnson doesn't get the 434 votes, he either goes long, resigns or awaits a VONC from Corbyn.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    edited September 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    I think that's smart tactics from No 10, the Benn bill will have RA by that point so Corbyn (Not Starmer !) objection last time round is fulfilled.
    If Johnson doesn't get the 434 votes, he either goes long, resigns or awaits a VONC from Corbyn.
    And corbyn can also just sit back and wait for Boris to have to grovel for an extention.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    I think that's smart tactics from No 10, the Benn bill will have RA by that point so Corbyn (Not Starmer !) objection last time round is fulfilled.
    If Johnson doesn't get the 434 votes, he either goes long, resigns or awaits a VONC from Corbyn.

    I think if he loses Monday, they try the one-line, simple majority thing
  • Scott_P said:
    Scott_P said:
    Can't see Boris resubmitting the WA. I think if there's no election before end October he'll resign and recommend to HMQ she invites Corbyn to form a government.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Re the Opposition fear that Boris wont follow the law, if they truly believe that that must VONC Monday knowing he will lose and be removed and be unable to break the law
  • This should be the death knell for an October election - no one is voting for it until an extension actually takes effect (not just the bill becoming law)

    Cummings is leaving at the end of October (he’s delayed surgery to get Brexit done).....
  • Scott_P said:

    The story is hardly surprising. That it’s in the Telegraph is.
  • This should be the death knell for an October election - no one is voting for it until an extension actually takes effect (not just the bill becoming law)

    Cummings is leaving at the end of October (he’s delayed surgery to get Brexit done).....
    Ah. I’d suggest he gets the surgery done.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    This should be the death knell for an October election - no one is voting for it until an extension actually takes effect (not just the bill becoming law)

    https://mobile.twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1169614147811758080?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1169614147811758080&ref_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-49590838

    Quite right. It's Arthur Balfour time for Boris. He can only hope for a better result.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Re the Opposition fear that Boris wont follow the law, if they truly believe that that must VONC Monday knowing he will lose and be removed and be unable to break the law

    Well quite. It's got nothing to do with a lack of trust in him unless you're being deliberately thick or deliberately stupid.

    The EU will extend anyway even if he doesn't send any letter I reckon.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
  • Re the Opposition fear that Boris wont follow the law, if they truly believe that that must VONC Monday knowing he will lose and be removed and be unable to break the law

    There's a legitimate problem that there are also potential shenanigans regarding getting a replacement in place and/or scheduling an election, which is a process that his team has previously suggested they will abuse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Paine out first ball after tea.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Re the Opposition fear that Boris wont follow the law, if they truly believe that that must VONC Monday knowing he will lose and be removed and be unable to break the law

    There's a legitimate problem that there are also potential shenanigans regarding getting a replacement in place and/or scheduling an election, which is a process that his team has previously suggested they will abuse.
    So long as he is PM he's subject to the law of the land election period or not.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/1169634489192132609

    before flat out denying it.

    "You can't trust BoZo..."
This discussion has been closed.