If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
We're too early to say nothing.
There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
Parliament has voted it down 3 times - why would they want a nation to accept something the people’s parliament voted down ?
They need to be more inventive if they want a deal.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
We're too early to say nothing.
There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
Parliament has voted it down 3 times - why would they want a nation to accept something the people’s parliament voted down ?
They need to be more inventive if they want a deal.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
We're too early to say nothing.
There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
This is the whole issue. Negotiations never end with capitulation. The conclusions have to be fair unless there's been a war.
I have to say I don't normally see many politics posts on my Facebook wall outside the day after elections normally. Tonight it is all politics.
The public is watching this and the public is engaged. High stakes poker being played and I think one side could get very, very burnt if they piss off the public enough.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
Only by a vote. Which, as I understand it, can be filibustered!
Exquisite......
Pythonesque
Is this the five minute filibuster - or the full half hour?
Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
And January 2021, and...
Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?
There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.
Job done.
The EU wouldn't agree to it, and there wouldn't be any substantive negotiations on it in that forum. The only possibility is to revert to the previous draft of the backstop, and call it something else - "all island economic zone" or some such.
The EU could agree to it if the alternative is no deal.
They wouldn't, and even if they did, it isn't something that could be negotiated in a Council meeting. It would need an extension and further negotiation.
No, it would just need further negotiation. With the UK having left in the meantime. And with there being no further point in the EU continuing to play hardball in the expectation that we wouldn't then leave.
If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
And January 2021, and...
Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?
There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.
Job done.
The EU wouldn't agree to it, and there wouldn't be any substantive negotiations on it in that forum. The only possibility is to revert to the previous draft of the backstop, and call it something else - "all island economic zone" or some such.
The EU could agree to it if the alternative is no deal.
They wouldn't, and even if they did, it isn't something that could be negotiated in a Council meeting. It would need an extension and further negotiation.
Well, they can have their EU-wide Brexit recession.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
We're too early to say nothing.
There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
This is the whole issue. Negotiations never end with capitulation. The conclusions have to be fair unless there's been a war.
And Britain’s red lines have lead us to the WA including the backstop.
If I walk into Tesco and demand they give me some sausages for half the ticket price, they are still going to say no, even if I threaten not to buy the sausages.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
We're too early to say nothing.
There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
This is the whole issue. Negotiations never end with capitulation. The conclusions have to be fair unless there's been a war.
And Britain’s red lines have lead us to the WA including the backstop.
If I walk into Tesco and demand they give me some sausages for half the ticket price, they are still going to say no, even if I threaten not to buy the sausages.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
What, then, is the situation between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the period between the end of the implementation period and the technological solution being rolled out?
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
What, then, is the situation between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the period between the end of the implementation period and the technological solution being rolled out?
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
What, then, is the situation between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the period between the end of the implementation period and the technological solution being rolled out?
Why do you no dealers have such a deluded view of Britain’s self importance?
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
What the EU are afraid of is the UK actually leaving successfully. Two main reasons:
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He doesn't need to yet.
But wouldn't this all get sorted a lot quicker if Boris Johnson could make it clear to the world (and by the world, I mean the people of the Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Republic and people generally) that he had a solution which removed the perceived need for a backstop?
If the people of the Republic saw there was a proposal on the table the EU was ignoring, they would put pressure on their own politicians, and that would make a speedy resolution much more likely.
Why do you no dealers have such a deluded view of Britain’s self importance?
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
What the EU are afraid of is the UK actually leaving successfully. Two main reasons:
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
The “they need us more than we need them” meme again. Classic.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
Over/under on this guy having The Art of War and The Prince both proudly displayed on his bookshelf?
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
What, then, is the situation between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the period between the end of the implementation period and the technological solution being rolled out?
Status quo.
You mean Northern Ireland remaining in the EU's customs area?
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
What, then, is the situation between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the period between the end of the implementation period and the technological solution being rolled out?
Why do you no dealers have such a deluded view of Britain’s self importance?
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
What the EU are afraid of is the UK actually leaving successfully. Two main reasons:
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He doesn't need to yet.
But wouldn't this all get sorted a lot quicker if Boris Johnson could make it clear to the world (and by the world, I mean the people of the Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Republic and people generally) that he had a solution which removed the perceived need for a backstop?
If the people of the Republic saw there was a proposal on the table the EU was ignoring, they would put pressure on their own politicians, and that would make a speedy resolution much more likely.
That would entail having a solution.
I don't believe there is one. I do believe dropping the backstop still makes sense though over no deal so there needs to be a face saving solution and clarity that the alternative is no deal. Hard for your solution to be face saving if it's already been rejected.
Why do you no dealers have such a deluded view of Britain’s self importance?
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
What the EU are afraid of is the UK actually leaving successfully. Two main reasons:
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
The “they need us more than we need them” meme again. Classic.
Good grief. Where did I say that? You really do need to update your book of stock answers. I gave you two valid (and true) responses to your propositions and you failed to even try to grasp the concepts. It is not about "no deal", it is about the survival of the EU as an entity.
Why do you no dealers have such a deluded view of Britain’s self importance?
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
What the EU are afraid of is the UK actually leaving successfully. Two main reasons:
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
The “they need us more than we need them” meme again. Classic.
Good grief. Where did I say that? You really do need to update your book of stock answers. I gave you two valid (and true) responses to your propositions and you failed to even try to grasp the concepts. It is not about "no deal", it is about the survival of the EU as an entity.
Well I fundamentally disagree with both of your points.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He doesn't need to yet.
But wouldn't this all get sorted a lot quicker if Boris Johnson could make it clear to the world (and by the world, I mean the people of the Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Republic and people generally) that he had a solution which removed the perceived need for a backstop?
If the people of the Republic saw there was a proposal on the table the EU was ignoring, they would put pressure on their own politicians, and that would make a speedy resolution much more likely.
That would entail having a solution.
I don't believe there is one. I do believe dropping the backstop still makes sense though over no deal so there needs to be a face saving solution and clarity that the alternative is no deal. Hard for your solution to be face saving if it's already been rejected.
I agree completely - a good compromise has to be without a loser (not the same as win, win.
Why do you no dealers have such a deluded view of Britain’s self importance?
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
What the EU are afraid of is the UK actually leaving successfully. Two main reasons:
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
The “they need us more than we need them” meme again. Classic.
Good grief. Where did I say that? You really do need to update your book of stock answers. I gave you two valid (and true) responses to your propositions and you failed to even try to grasp the concepts. It is not about "no deal", it is about the survival of the EU as an entity.
Well I fundamentally disagree with both of your points.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
For the sake of argument, let's think it through: There would be no incentive for the EU to give any concessions in the Council meeting, even if they really did want to avoid No Deal, because it would still be nearly two weeks away from the deadline. They'd send Johnson back with nothing to see if he really means it, or whether the UK political system could find a way to stop him in the intervening period.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
For the sake of argument, let's think it through: There would be no incentive for the EU to give any concessions in the Council meeting, even if they really did want to avoid No Deal, because it would still be nearly two weeks away from the deadline. They'd send Johnson back with nothing to see if he really means it, or whether the UK political system could find a way to stop him in the intervening period.
I agree, the EU have negotiated much better than May. My cat could negotiate better than May. Miaow, and big eyes. I think back to Khrushchev/ Kennedy and the analogy of chess vs poker - forgive the poker reference AGAIN. I'm actually a Brit.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
For the sake of argument, let's think it through: There would be no incentive for the EU to give any concessions in the Council meeting, even if they really did want to avoid No Deal, because it would still be nearly two weeks away from the deadline. They'd send Johnson back with nothing to see if he really means it, or whether the UK political system could find a way to stop him in the intervening period.
I agree, the EU have negotiated much better than May. My cat could negotiate better than May. Miaow, and big eyes. I think back to Khrushchev/ Kennedy and the analogy of chess vs poker - forgive the poker reference AGAIN. I'm actually a Brit.
But it doesn't make any difference who the British Prime Minister is. The No Deal threat can never be made convincing enough for structural reasons.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
I think you find Boris is not playing poker. He is simply lying.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
For the sake of argument, let's think it through: There would be no incentive for the EU to give any concessions in the Council meeting, even if they really did want to avoid No Deal, because it would still be nearly two weeks away from the deadline. They'd send Johnson back with nothing to see if he really means it, or whether the UK political system could find a way to stop him in the intervening period.
I agree, the EU have negotiated much better than May. My cat could negotiate better than May. Miaow, and big eyes. I think back to Khrushchev/ Kennedy and the analogy of chess vs poker - forgive the poker reference AGAIN. I'm actually a Brit.
But it doesn't make any difference who the British Prime Minister is. The No Deal threat can never be made convincing enough for structural reasons.
Not sure I agree with you but you should at least try.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
I think you find Boris is not playing poker. He is simply lying.
I think you're simply talking your corner and have never played poker either.
Looking mightily like the latter tonight. Who would have thought it.
Ahem.
I’ll join this coughing chorus.
And me.
I believe it was I who promulgated the theory that Boris is deliberately lying. He pretends to be aiming for a deal to get nice people to like him but is in truth pursing no-deal so that he can continue his "failing and blaming" strategy and wage a culture war and reap the electoral success thereby. So far it appears to be working.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
I think you find Boris is not playing poker. He is simply lying.
I think you're simply talking your corner and have never played poker either.
Events will reveal which of us is correct. If a deal eventuates and Boris accepts it, you are correct. If a deal does not eventuate, then I was correct. If a deal eventuates and Boris turns it down (which he will, for some made-up reason which every leaver will believe uncritically) then I was correct. We have 56 days to find out.
Looking mightily like the latter tonight. Who would have thought it.
Ahem.
I’ll join this coughing chorus.
And me.
I believe it was I who promulgated the theory that Boris is deliberately lying. He pretends to be aiming for a deal to get nice people to like him but is in truth pursing no-deal so that he can continue his "failing and blaming" strategy and wage a culture war and reap the electoral success thereby. So far it appears to be working.
For a "political" site, it's amazing how many people have scant understanding of politics. Politicians lying, whatever next. It's getting away with it that's the trick. Not sure about your "analysis".
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
For the sake of argument, let's think it through: There would be no incentive for the EU to give any concessions in the Council meeting, even if they really did want to avoid No Deal, because it would still be nearly two weeks away from the deadline. They'd send Johnson back with nothing to see if he really means it, or whether the UK political system could find a way to stop him in the intervening period.
I agree, the EU have negotiated much better than May. My cat could negotiate better than May. Miaow, and big eyes. I think back to Khrushchev/ Kennedy and the analogy of chess vs poker - forgive the poker reference AGAIN. I'm actually a Brit.
But it doesn't make any difference who the British Prime Minister is. The No Deal threat can never be made convincing enough for structural reasons.
Not sure I agree with you but you should at least try.
If you were playing the EU side, what would you do? Let's say we're a week away from the deadline and the UK says it is leaving with No Deal. You could start 'testing' your readiness by doing things that create consequences in the UK to turn up the political heat.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
I think you find Boris is not playing poker. He is simply lying.
I think you're simply talking your corner and have never played poker either.
Events will reveal which of us is correct. If a deal eventuates and Boris accepts it, you are correct. If a deal does not eventuate, then I was correct. If a deal eventuates and Boris turns it down (which he will, for some made-up reason which every leaver will believe uncritically) then I was correct. We have 56 days to find out.
I'm not seeking to be correct. If I'm on to a good thing, I'll keep it to myself and my good friends. No one on here qualifies.
So I get to my office and was just trying to choose between Reservoir Dogs and Apocalypse Now as the soundtrack to go with the live filibuster telly and they just abruptly stopped
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
You've never played poker
This is not a poker game. Grow up.
Business/ politics is a poker game. You're obviously not involved or a Liberal
No. People’s livelihoods depend on this. That is not something to be gambled.
You've never gamed a situation. Gaming is not a game. Nothing to do with gambling
For the sake of argument, let's think it through: There would be no incentive for the EU to give any concessions in the Council meeting, even if they really did want to avoid No Deal, because it would still be nearly two weeks away from the deadline. They'd send Johnson back with nothing to see if he really means it, or whether the UK political system could find a way to stop him in the intervening period.
I agree, the EU have negotiated much better than May. My cat could negotiate better than May. Miaow, and big eyes. I think back to Khrushchev/ Kennedy and the analogy of chess vs poker - forgive the poker reference AGAIN. I'm actually a Brit.
But it doesn't make any difference who the British Prime Minister is. The No Deal threat can never be made convincing enough for structural reasons.
Not sure I agree with you but you should at least try.
If you were playing the EU side, what would you do? Let's say we're a week away from the deadline and the UK says it is leaving with No Deal. You could start 'testing' your readiness by doing things that create consequences in the UK to turn up the political heat.
I have no insight into the EU's objectives. I don't even have any real understanding of whether it wants us to stay or go, or the terms associated with that preference. But I did use to be a boy scout.
Why not now? Wasn’t Corbyn’s condition that the bill had assent?
Yup, I was assuming what just happened was that the government agreed to give Royal Assent in time for Corbyn to vote for a new election before prorogation.
Why not now? Wasn’t Corbyn’s condition that the bill had assent?
Yup, I was assuming what just happened was that the government agreed to give Royal Assent in time for Corbyn to vote for a new election before prorogation.
Glorious news. Unless it ends up with a hung parliament.
If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
He has, the WA minus the backstop
To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.
We’re still waiting.
You've never played poker
I think you find Boris is not playing poker. He is simply lying.
I think you're simply talking your corner and have never played poker either.
Events will reveal which of us is correct. If a deal eventuates and Boris accepts it, you are correct. If a deal does not eventuate, then I was correct. If a deal eventuates and Boris turns it down (which he will, for some made-up reason which every leaver will believe uncritically) then I was correct. We have 56 days to find out.
I'm not seeking to be correct. If I'm on to a good thing, I'll keep it to myself and my good friends. No one on here qualifies.
It is a mistake for anybody on here (you, me, whoever) to think that anybody else on here (you, me, whoever) is a friend or enemy. This is an internet blog where various people post things, sometimes rarely, sometimes often. That is all it is. If I dropped dead tomorrow, people would briefly cheer/mourn and then forget about me. Real life is away from this PC...
...and on that cheerful thought I am off. Goodnight...
Are we to conclude Boris wants a pre 31 Oct election more than he wants a post No Deal election?
Either that or he worried that they were going to squeeze the bill in but let the new election vote go over time, in which case he'd end up with neither.
Why not now? Wasn’t Corbyn’s condition that the bill had assent?
Yup, I was assuming what just happened was that the government agreed to give Royal Assent in time for Corbyn to vote for a new election before prorogation.
Glorious news. Unless it ends up with a hung parliament.
Yup, it took a fairly ridiculous process to get there but removing No Deal as the default but letting Boris do it if he wins an election seems like a mostly sensible outcome.
Looks like the Commons will now vote to dissolve next Monday evening or Tuesday. The next question is what Labour have got out of Boris on the GE date. If they pushed it back a week or two then that plus the Benn Act is Game, Set and Match to the opposition + rebels.
Are we to conclude Boris wants a pre 31 Oct election more than he wants a post No Deal election?
My current view of Johnson's strategy:
- Get October 15th election - Win majority - Go to Council meeting and say, "I'll have the WA with the original NI-only backstop please." - Sell it as a triumphant removal of the backstop and get it through the HoC - Try to move Brexit down the political agenda
Are we to conclude Boris wants a pre 31 Oct election more than he wants a post No Deal election?
Either that or he worried that they were going to squeeze the bill in but let the new election vote go over time, in which case he'd end up with neither.
Labour will want the GE post Oct 31 so BXP can paint Boris a traitor to the cause.
Looks like the Commons will now vote to dissolve next Monday evening or Tuesday. The next question is what Labour have got out of Boris on the GE date. If they pushed it back a week or two then that plus the Benn Act is Game, Set and Match to the opposition + rebels.
Labour will want the GE post Oct 31 so BXP can paint Boris a traitor to the cause.
OTOH an election right before the No Deal deadline would really focus minds on the impending chaos, not to mention pretty much stalling the economy. I reckon they might be better off with that; Boris has done a fairly thorough job of showing he made a decent effort to get the thing done by Oct 31st, after that performance I don't think brexit-inclined voters will necessarily respond the way they did with TMay.
Comments
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/there-will-still-be-an-election-in-the-uk-and-brexit-will-still-happen
The public is watching this and the public is engaged. High stakes poker being played and I think one side could get very, very burnt if they piss off the public enough.
If no deal is nothing to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
If no deal is something to be afraid of, the EU has no reason to budge.
Boris snooked.
Or they can work out a way to fix that. Quickly.
If I walk into Tesco and demand they give me some sausages for half the ticket price, they are still going to say no, even if I threaten not to buy the sausages.
The price is the price.
1) Financial. The UK is a major source of revenue.
2) The more important one for the EU as an institution, rather than its constituent member states, is that it would be a proof of concept and thereafter any nation that feels itself disadvantaged enough by any EU policy can do the same. This would essentially end the EU as a going concern as any nation can thereafter credibly threaten to leave. It utterly disempowers the EUs institutions.
If the people of the Republic saw there was a proposal on the table the EU was ignoring, they would put pressure on their own politicians, and that would make a speedy resolution much more likely.
With the backstop we can’t.
I know I generally don't have a good word to say about HoL but they are sending me to bed with a smile tonight.
I don't believe there is one. I do believe dropping the backstop still makes sense though over no deal so there needs to be a face saving solution and clarity that the alternative is no deal. Hard for your solution to be face saving if it's already been rejected.
This is why I identify with the way the EU has negotiated this. Everything has been on the table from the start. No dirty tricks, no secrets.
Luckily in my line of work this philosophy seems to be respected.
When does remainer panic set in ?
How far through the amendments are they now?
https://twitter.com/andrew_adonis/status/1169405168452087809?s=21
In return, Labour has agreed not to abolish the Lords filibuster in future.
@HYUFD assured us Boris would refuse royal assent so this cant be true.
...and on that cheerful thought I am off. Goodnight...
- Get October 15th election
- Win majority
- Go to Council meeting and say, "I'll have the WA with the original NI-only backstop please."
- Sell it as a triumphant removal of the backstop and get it through the HoC
- Try to move Brexit down the political agenda
The second day of a two day Jewish holiday they moved the original date from to avoid the first day....for some reason.....