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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Unelected PM Boris Johnson maintains his 100% record in Parlia

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  • Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    Just for info: Labour has set a deadline of this Friday for all applications for the remaining seats needing candidates. They've short-circuited all the reselection stuff in the interest of being battle-ready.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Just for info: Labour has set a deadline of this Friday for all applications for the remaining seats needing candidates. They've short-circuited all the reselection stuff in the interest of being battle-ready.

    How many reverse gears does the battle bus have ?
  • HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    Ask the Queen to refuse royal assent to the anti No Deal Bill and dissolve Parliament using the royal prerogative for a general election mid October to let the voters decide on Brexit before October 31st.

    The FTPA explicitly allows the Queen still to dissolve Parliament and call a general election at her whim under its Supplementary Provisions
    Citation? News to me.
    '6
    Supplementary provisions
    (1)
    This Act does not affect Her Majesty’s power to prorogue Parliament.'

    '(7)
    If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister'

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/enacted
    prorogue =/= dissolve
    The Queen can refuse to assent to the extension Bill and prorogue Parliament past October 31st at the PM's request while requiring a general election and dissolution before she summons Parliament again
    So just to be clear - parliament will be prorogued immediately after a Queens Speech? It’s a view I suppose. Johnson can’t try the prorogation card because he’s already played it.

    No, that is on the cards trust me
    About as on the cards as re-partitioning NI. Not going to happen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    Ask the Queen to refuse royal assent to the anti No Deal Bill and dissolve Parliament using the royal prerogative for a general election mid October to let the voters decide on Brexit before October 31st.

    The FTPA explicitly allows the Queen still to dissolve Parliament and call a general election at her whim under its Supplementary Provisions
    Citation? News to me.
    '6
    Supplementary provisions
    (1)
    This Act does not affect Her Majesty’s power to prorogue Parliament.'

    '(7)
    If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister'

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/enacted
    prorogue =/= dissolve
    The Queen can refuse to assent to the extension Bill and prorogue Parliament past October 31st at the PM's request while requiring a general election and dissolution before she summons Parliament again
    So just to be clear - parliament will be prorogued immediately after a Queens Speech? It’s a view I suppose. Johnson can’t try the prorogation card because he’s already played it.

    No, that is on the cards trust me
    You have a record of being right recently. As a soft Republican, anti -Tory, who is past caring about Brexit, all I can say is "BRING IT ON".
    That is my dream scenario.
  • Fallon is going too

    www.michaelfallon.org.uk/?p=2598
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508

    HYUFD said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    Ask the Queen to refuse royal assent to the anti No Deal Bill and dissolve Parliament using the royal prerogative for a general election mid October to let the voters decide on Brexit before October 31st.

    The FTPA explicitly allows the Queen still to dissolve Parliament and call a general election at her whim under its Supplementary Provisions
    I’lll save this one for a rainy day.
    There’s one knocking about from Mortimer that might be worth putting in the fridge too.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    That's easy. One Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    I think the 14 day process would still happen, and - essentially - if someone came forward and said "300 people will back me in a vote of confidence and another 40 will abstain", then she'd have to let said person try.

  • And trigger ballots have started

    Corbyn won the first ward branch vote in Islington North

    St Peters branch voted unanimously to reselect Thornberry

    A ward backed Campbell in Tynemouth

    McGovern won the first ward branch that voted in Wirral South yesterday

    A ward branch in City of Chester also voted...but I don't know the outcome

    Just for info: Labour has set a deadline of this Friday for all applications for the remaining seats needing candidates. They've short-circuited all the reselection stuff in the interest of being battle-ready.

  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    Ask the Queen to refuse royal assent to the anti No Deal Bill and dissolve Parliament using the royal prerogative for a general election mid October to let the voters decide on Brexit before October 31st.

    The FTPA explicitly allows the Queen still to dissolve Parliament and call a general election at her whim under its Supplementary Provisions
    Citation? News to me.
    '6
    Supplementary provisions
    (1)
    This Act does not affect Her Majesty’s power to prorogue Parliament.'

    '(7)
    If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister'

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/enacted
    prorogue =/= dissolve
    The Queen can refuse to assent to the extension Bill and prorogue Parliament past October 31st at the PM's request while requiring a general election and dissolution before she summons Parliament again
    No she can't.
    Yes she can, all within the royal prerogative powers the executive branch can use
    Has she joined the new Conservative Party ?

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_P said:
    Which probably means that CCHQ will have to divert resources from other seats, which, the Tories could have used to target Labour seats or defence against LD/SNP. A campaign has finite resources and you can only spend a pound once or have an individual in one place at a time. Independents turning safe seats into marginals is a really clever move by Boris and co! I wonder if they wargamed that as well?
    I think the likes of Grieve and the two Hammonds would stand decent chances. I recall all are in Remain seats - presumably the official Tory candidates will be hardcore Leaver europhobes, to comply with Boris’ purge parameters?
    Rory Stewart too. He seems well liked on his patch.
    That is a very interesting example.

    Given the huge Conservative vote, it would take a remarkable personal following to win it as an independent candidate (possibly aided by the LDs standing aside for him, as Swinson has hinted at, should the local party agree).
    On the other hand, it’s quite possible he gets the whip restored, given the current unrest in the party.
    I use it only cos he is in the neighbouring Constituency to mine, and because it shares some similarities. The Tories in the rural North are an unideological , practical, down-to-earth bunch, rarely wealthy either. Their vote is traditional, but not automatic. It is also a long way from Westminster, indeed, a fair way from anywhere.
    If the LDs stand aside, I reckon he'd be a shoo in.
    I didn’t say he can’t win, or even that it would be highly unlikely - just that it would be fairly remarkable if he did.
    Would have echoes of the Blaenau Gwent independent from New Labour days.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    That's easy. One Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.
    I thought the outgoing PM had to tell HMQ who the incoming PM would be?

    You can't just have anyone rock up at Buck House (with or without a taxi) and tell HMQ they're going to be PM?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    That's easy. One Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.
    He doesn't as Swinson would veto him
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508

    The idea that anyone will care whether Labour votes for an election today or in a few days' or weeks' time is for the birds. It's actually a very strong position for them: they have an incontrovertible argument that no election can take place until the imminent threat of a No Deal catastrophe has been averted, they have a superb political point that Boris can't be trusted, and they'll be in good shape if they can campaign on having saved the country from an ideological chlorinated-chicken Tory No Deal Brexit.


    Yours is a more sophisticated analysis than mine earlier, which was to your first point only: simply that the idea Labour will sustain damage in an election campaign for having in the less recent past voted against an election, when in the more recent past they voted for an election, is faintly absurd.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    MikeL said:

    Surely Boris would have to call off filibuster before Corbyn voted for GE.

    So how could Boris be sure Corbyn would not renege?

    Corbyn would have to blink first because he needs this legislation more than Boris needs an election.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Am I missing something?

    No deal hasn’t been prevented at all. Boris gets to set up an election nov 1st, he then no deals us after Christmas?.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Just for info: Labour has set a deadline of this Friday for all applications for the remaining seats needing candidates. They've short-circuited all the reselection stuff in the interest of being battle-ready.

    O' Mara...Onasanya...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    DanSmith said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely Boris would have to call off filibuster before Corbyn voted for GE.

    So how could Boris be sure Corbyn would not renege?

    Corbyn would have to blink first because he needs this legislation more than Boris needs an election.
    Not sure that’s true.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    Ask the Queen to refuse royal assent to the anti No Deal Bill and dissolve Parliament using the royal prerogative for a general election mid October to let the voters decide on Brexit before October 31st.

    The FTPA explicitly allows the Queen still to dissolve Parliament and call a general election at her whim under its Supplementary Provisions
    Citation? News to me.
    '6
    Supplementary provisions
    (1)
    This Act does not affect Her Majesty’s power to prorogue Parliament.'

    '(7)
    If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister'

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/enacted
    prorogue =/= dissolve
    The Queen can refuse to assent to the extension Bill and prorogue Parliament past October 31st at the PM's request while requiring a general election and dissolution before she summons Parliament again
    So just to be.

    No, that is on the cards trust me
    You have a record of being right recently. As a soft Republican, anti -Tory, who is past caring about Brexit, all I can say is "BRING IT ON".
    That is my dream scenario.
    You may think so but it is actually the scenario most likely to force a general election and give a Tory majority for Brexit.

    It also does the monarchy no harm at all supporting letting voters decide what this useless Parliament cannot in a general election (plus voters by a 20% margin backed proroguing Parliament with Survation last weekend)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    egg said:

    Am I missing something?

    No deal hasn’t been prevented at all. Boris gets to set up an election nov 1st, he then no deals us after Christmas?.

    If that’s what the people vote for
  • GIN1138 said:

    I wonder if Cummings is wargaming or drinking again right now? I know where my money is

    Maybe he's wargaming AND drinking? Some people can multitask. :D
    And all without spilling a drop on the Number 10 sofas. What a guy - this is really one in the eye for the many, many people who say Dominic is a charmless, vicious drunk who's advice has strangled his boss' premiership at birth.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    After 9 hours of debate, the House of Lords is just getting started.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c
  • Can the government bring back the early GE motion as soon as Royal Assent is given or are there procedural restrictions on repeating a vote you just lost?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508

    Noo said:

    Mango said:

    Suffice to say that any country where Dominic Cummings and Seumas Milne have any influence on events is utterly utterly fucked.

    Late entry for best comment of the day.
    And thanks for the reminder about Milne. I'm over my earlier dalliance with considering voting Labour.
    The Blairites will still be very powerful in any Corbyn administration. They make up 80% of the Parliamentary Labour Party.

    Not all Blairites as such but centre-left and old right etc —- but your general point is correct.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    GIN1138 said:

    I wonder if Cummings is wargaming or drinking again right now? I know where my money is

    Maybe he's wargaming AND drinking? Some people can multitask. :D
    And all without spilling a drop on the Number 10 sofas. What a guy - this is really one in the eye for the many, many people who say Dominic is a charmless, vicious drunk who's advice has strangled his boss' premiership at birth.
    His boss now has a 10% poll lead in the latest poll, after May extended the Tories were 3rd
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    dixiedean said:

    Just for info: Labour has set a deadline of this Friday for all applications for the remaining seats needing candidates. They've short-circuited all the reselection stuff in the interest of being battle-ready.

    O' Mara...Onasanya...
    yep. That is what happens in rushed elections.

    I quite fancy a Christmas election. It will be a novelty.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    I think the 14 day process would still happen, and - essentially - if someone came forward and said "300 people will back me in a vote of confidence and another 40 will abstain", then she'd have to let said person try.

    I remmeber reading that Edward VII and King George V were much more "involved" in basically telling politicians what to do for example in the 1910 crisis and during the depression/formation of the national government.

    Ramsay Mcdonald stayed to lead the national government (but was basically a Conservative govenment with a Labour leader) partly at the behest of King George V and indeed Ramsay and George had quite a deep personal friendship in the end.

    Obviously HMQ has taken a very "hands off" role during her reign but then again we've never seen a crisis quite like this during her reign I don't think.

    I just wonder whether its getting to the point where she's going to have to do something...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    That's easy. One Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM.
    He doesn't as Swinson would veto him
    She would? Boris and Cummings seem to be having remarkable powers of healing and unification.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    GIN1138 said:

    I wonder if Cummings is wargaming or drinking again right now? I know where my money is

    Maybe he's wargaming AND drinking? Some people can multitask. :D
    And all without spilling a drop on the Number 10 sofas. What a guy - this is really one in the eye for the many, many people who say Dominic is a charmless, vicious drunk who's advice has strangled his boss' premiership at birth.
    I imagine before Johnson moved in the staff moved the good sofas into storage.
  • Can the government bring back the early GE motion as soon as Royal Assent is given or are there procedural restrictions on repeating a vote you just lost?

    Considering Corbyn said he'd vote for it if the other bill has Assent, Bercow would be rather obnoxious to rule it out of order.

    Be like saying Corbyn is out of order bringing forth a new VoNC.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?


    The FTPA explicitly allows the Queen still to dissolve Parliament and call a general election at her whim under its Supplementary Provisions
    Citation? News to me.
    '6
    Supplementary provisions
    (1)
    This Act does not affect Her Majesty’s power to prorogue Parliament.'

    '(7)
    If a parliamentary general election is to take place as provided for by subsection (1) or (3), the polling day for the election is to be the day appointed by Her Majesty by proclamation on the recommendation of the Prime Minister'

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/enacted
    prorogue =/= dissolve
    The Queen can refuse to assent to the extension Bill and prorogue Parliament past October 31st at the PM's request while requiring a general election and dissolution before she summons Parliament again
    No she can't.
    Yes she can, all within the royal prerogative powers the executive branch can use
    Has she joined the new Conservative Party ?

    HYUFD doesn’t seem to realise that half the “rumours” being spread about concerning what Johnson might do to ensure Brexit were actually only raised to try and engineer what he wanted - a pre Brexit election. He doesn’t actually have any intention of actually doing them. The problem he’s got is that he’s now in a position where he can’t get his election because the opposition actually believed the rumours (eg. Setting an election date post Oct 31st, which I don’t think was ever the plan). HYUFD also doesn’t get that Johnson’s burning desire is not to deliver Brexit, except to the extent that he thinks he will be finished politically if he doesn’t. He’s just dug himself into so many holes that virtually every scenario is now one he doesn’t want.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216
    Quite a long one 2F -> 2G 39 minutes !
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019
    No wonder he doesn't like parliament.

    "Dominic Cummings found in contempt of parliament"

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/commons-report-rules-dominic-cummings-in-contempt-of-parliament
  • GIN1138 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    I think the 14 day process would still happen, and - essentially - if someone came forward and said "300 people will back me in a vote of confidence and another 40 will abstain", then she'd have to let said person try.

    I remmeber reading that Edward VII and King George V were much more "involved" in basically telling politicians what to do for example in the 1910 crisis and during the depression/formation of the national government.

    Ramsay Mcdonald stayed to lead the national government (but was basically a Conservative govenment with a Labour leader) partly at the behest of King George V and indeed Ramsay and George had quite a deep personal friendship in the end.

    Obviously HMQ has taken a very "hands off" role during her reign but then again we've never seen a crisis quite like this I don't think.

    I just wonder whether its getting to the point where she's going to have to do something...
    It is quite remarkable to think that in the aftermath of the 1931 General Election Stanley Baldwin's Conservatives won 470 seats and an absolute majority of the vote . . . and we had a Labour PM.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508

    Foxy said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    This must explain all the 'Jezza is frit', 'Jezza is chicken' stuff that Cummings has ordered the eurosceptic press to run with tonight. They think they've failed to secure the pre No deal GE and are now managing the narrative so that this fact now reflects badly on Jezza. But it feels thin - it's not as if everyone you speak to was hitherto gagging for a general election to be called.

    Without action chicken photos and crying grit will get a bit wearing. If there is no election what, in practice, is Johnson going to do?

    From next week Jezza can just shrug. "I would be happy to vote for an election, but Parliament is prorogued at the orders of Johnson." I am happy to have a vote on it when we have reconvened and dealt with emergency matters.

    BoZo is hoist by his own prorogation. His master startegist seems to be the General Burnside of British politics.
    Indeed. He needs only to resist an election until Monday evening (I think?), after which he can safely say “bring it on”, safe in the knowledge there cannot be an election until November.
    Can Boris get HM to unprorogue? (I've rather forgotten why Boris prorogued in the first place.)
    Ludicrously, as it seems now, to stop parliament blocking No Deal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    AndyJS said:

    After 9 hours of debate, the House of Lords is just getting started.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c

    So are they going to talk it out?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    After 9 hours of debate, the House of Lords is just getting started.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c

    So are they going to talk it out?
    I have no idea. It's difficult to follow.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,152
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I wonder if Cummings is wargaming or drinking again right now? I know where my money is

    Maybe he's wargaming AND drinking? Some people can multitask. :D
    And all without spilling a drop on the Number 10 sofas. What a guy - this is really one in the eye for the many, many people who say Dominic is a charmless, vicious drunk who's advice has strangled his boss' premiership at birth.
    His boss now has a 10% poll lead in the latest poll, after May extended the Tories were 3rd
    Well, let's see how well that serves him at the General Election on 15th October.

    Oh, there isn't going to be one. There isn't going to be Brexit on 31st. He's got a -43 majority. He's lost all his Parliamentary votes.

    You apparently think this is all in the Cummings plan. I pity you for that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    What would happen if the entire Cabinet resigned. Boris went to the Queen and said I'm resigning but I'm unable to recommend any other person who you could call to be PM?

    Would the Queen then insist that politicans sort themselves out with an election?

    I think the 14 day process would still happen, and - essentially - if someone came forward and said "300 people will back me in a vote of confidence and another 40 will abstain", then she'd have to let said person try.

    I remmeber reading that Edward VII and King George V were much more "involved" in basically telling politicians what to do for example in the 1910 crisis and during the depression/formation of the national government.

    Ramsay Mcdonald stayed to lead the national government (but was basically a Conservative govenment with a Labour leader) partly at the behest of King George V and indeed Ramsay and George had quite a deep personal friendship in the end.

    Obviously HMQ has taken a very "hands off" role during her reign but then again we've never seen a crisis quite like this I don't think.

    I just wonder whether its getting to the point where she's going to have to do something...
    It is quite remarkable to think that in the aftermath of the 1931 General Election Stanley Baldwin's Conservatives won 470 seats and an absolute majority of the vote . . . and we had a Labour PM.
    That was mainly at the behest of King George I believe?
  • Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
    Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.

    Job done.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    AndyJS said:

    After 9 hours of debate, the House of Lords is just getting started.

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c

    So are they going to talk it out?
    Apparently Boris is saying he'll call off the fillibustering if Jezza will agree to an election.:D
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    This filibuster plan seems too obvious to not have been expected. Can the forces of remain really not find a way to overcome the ploy?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Cummings has been described by David Cameron as a ‘career psychopath’ and by Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris, in similar terms. I urge you to read in full Pat Kane’s assessment, in which he calls Cummings an “intellectually committed chaos-merchant” and reports on his mission to subject all aspects of human behaviour (health, education, all public services) to the capricious and/or sadistic whims of the market. This may not suit everyone, but Cummings believes most of us to be a waste of education, as cognitive ability is primarily related to genes."

    http://www.katoikos.eu/dialogue/the-ideological-psychopaths-behind-trump-putin-and-brexit.html
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Pulpstar said:
    Final nail in Zac’s coffin (lord true was Richmond council leader before he stood down not long before the Conservatives were almost wiped out)
  • Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Who is Philip Lee? Any relation to Christopher?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    A VONC now looks more likely since the Tory moderates having been kicked out have nothing to lose.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,711
    One point to note - most of these amendments are manuscript so not listed on Order of Business on HOL website.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    It's not going to pass, there is a constant 200 or so opposition majority.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...
  • Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
    Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.

    Job done.
    The EU wouldn't agree to it, and there wouldn't be any substantive negotiations on it in that forum. The only possibility is to revert to the previous draft of the backstop, and call it something else - "all island economic zone" or some such.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    edited September 2019

    Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
    Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.

    Job done.
    The obvious and totally ignored option is to tell Ireland to fix it or fuck off. I suppose that's your suggestion too.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    But could save us 3 months (and £3Bn).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    Didn't the last one just pass? The contents had it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
    Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.

    Job done.
    The obvious and totally ignored option is to tell Ireland to fix it or fuck off
    Great plan 🙄
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Bit silly of Johnson to withdraw the whip and destroy his majority for no reason.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Lord True has contrived to make Amendment 2G (9) last 50 minutes. A good innings for this one.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    My heart bleeds
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    RobD said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    Didn't the last one just pass? The contents had it.
    Not watching, but maybe it was a closure motion?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    They are voting on amendments to a very motion to stop the filibuster.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    A new government via an election ?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    IIRC the HoL has less rules on the duration of the speeches of peers.
  • If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    The filibuster has a long standing tradition in many places. Is the term not derived from America usage?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    Didn't the last one just pass? The contents had it.
    Not watching, but maybe it was a closure motion?
    It was.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    Didn't the last one just pass? The contents had it.
    Not watching, but maybe it was a closure motion?
    Ah, that was probably it. Carry on!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216
    RobD said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    Didn't the last one just pass? The contents had it.
    The first vote was a closure vote I think, a vote about whether to vote on Amendment 2G.

    I do remember the adoration with which the Lords were held by the #FBPE lot on twitter till recently.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    alex. said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Bit silly of Johnson to withdraw the whip and destroy his majority for no reason.
    May never handed him a majority. With Peterborough lost and B&R likely to be lost and at least one Tory choosing their moment to defect, he was always a minority Govt.
  • AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    Yes, the motion that's being filibustered would do that if they can get through the filibuster first.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    Only by a vote. Which, as I understand it, can be filibustered!

    Exquisite......
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    IIRC the HoL has less rules on the duration of the speeches of peers.
    I believe there is no foreclosure unless a speaker drops dead mid filibuster. Our parliamentary rules make the playground look sophisticated viz Speaker
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Don't they have to sit until 10:01 on Friday? That's still another 34 hours away!
  • Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
    Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.

    Job done.
    The EU wouldn't agree to it, and there wouldn't be any substantive negotiations on it in that forum. The only possibility is to revert to the previous draft of the backstop, and call it something else - "all island economic zone" or some such.
    The EU could agree to it if the alternative is no deal.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    Only by a vote. Which, as I understand it, can be filibustered!

    Exquisite......
    Pythonesque
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    IIRC the HoL has less rules on the duration of the speeches of peers.
    I believe there is no foreclosure unless a speaker drops dead mid filibuster.
    And given the agre of some of their Lordships that's not totally impossible. :D
  • If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He doesn't need to yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    The papers weirdly have two same headlines. The Boris press going for Corbyn, hypocrite and chicken. The remain press use “Boris cornered” rather a lot.

    My personal view is
    1. I agree with pedley, the optics of blocking no deal and the election might not look good for the opposition party’s, but only amongst leavers, remainers probably loving Boris, as seant would say, strong up hog tied and naked.
    2. Corbyn is wide open to the partisan chicken attack, but surely those of us politics aficionado on PB would think worse of him if he passed on the gift of being able to kettle his opponent? If you support Boris you must be spitting teeth, but what would you really think of a LOTO who passed on this opportunity?
    3. But the main thing from the week, that trumps all other optics and perhaps reverberates forever, the decision to throw from the Conservative party people who define conservatism in this country, thrown out after the only rebel vote in lives for some of them, by an awkward squad who used rebelling as a weapon over and over. If the local associations can’t back these MPs because all they care about Is brexit, then something is clearly and dangerously broken.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...

    Isn't there a way of stopping these delaying tactics?
    IIRC the HoL has less rules on the duration of the speeches of peers.
    I believe there is no foreclosure unless a speaker drops dead mid filibuster.
    And given the agre of some of their Lordships that's not totally impossible. :D
    And that they have loads of shillings for the meter
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RobD said:

    Don't they have to sit until 10:01 on Friday? That's still another 34 hours away!

    Surely a rota is in place - take a break for a nap , glass of claret etc.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Mr Smith goes toWashington.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    alex. said:

    Pulpstar said:
    So if this amendment were to pass it would surely be game over for the bill? That would be funny if enough Remain Lords have gone to bed.
    None of the amendments will pass. They only exist to waste time.

    Didn't the last one just pass? The contents had it.
    The first vote was a closure vote I think, a vote about whether to vote on Amendment 2G.

    I do remember the adoration with which the Lords were held by the #FBPE lot on twitter till recently.
    It really is ironic isn't it
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
    To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.

    We’re still waiting.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    edited September 2019
    egg said:

    The papers weirdly have two same headlines. The Boris press going for Corbyn, hypocrite and chicken. The remain press use “Boris cornered” rather a lot.

    My personal view is
    1. I agree with pedley, the optics of blocking no deal and the election might not look good for the opposition party’s, but only amongst leavers, remainers probably loving Boris, as seant would say, strong up hog tied and naked.
    2. Corbyn is wide open to the partisan chicken attack, but surely those of us politics aficionado on PB would think worse of him if he passed on the gift of being able to kettle his opponent? If you support Boris you must be spitting teeth, but what would you really think of a LOTO who passed on this opportunity?
    3. But the main thing from the week, that trumps all other optics and perhaps reverberates forever, the decision to throw from the Conservative party people who define conservatism in this country, thrown out after the only rebel vote in lives for some of them, by an awkward squad who used rebelling as a weapon over and over. If the local associations can’t back these MPs because all they care about Is brexit, then something is clearly and dangerously broken.

    The hoi poloi won't see it like that - that's bubble talk
  • HYUFD said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
    To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.

    We’re still waiting.
    We're too early to say nothing.

    There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    HYUFD said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
    To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.

    We’re still waiting.
    We're too early to say nothing.

    There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
    The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
    Er, he explicitly acknowledged to Merkel that he accepts there needs to be an alternative to the backstop. Remember how grateful he was that she gave him 30 days?

  • Norm said:

    The previous tweet was a typo apparently...

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=21

    If true, 2019 looks unlikely. Once you get past 31 October, no one is going to thank you for a Christmas election. And no one seems to have noticed that with prorogation November is almost impossible to hit.
    Which does rather beg the question - will be be facing exactly the same situation in January?
    And January 2021, and...

    Johnson’s entire strategy has been based on getting an election before 31st October. What’s he going to do if he doesn’t get one?

    There'll be an election after 31st. Corbyn though will have his Pyrrhic Victory insofar Johnson will have failed to take us out of the EU by that date.
    Johnson won't have failed. Johnson will be on the side of the people while the smug politicians think they know better than what the public decided and are obstructing Brexit and obstructing an election.
    How? The public wants a deal. It’s up to BoJo to get one now. Chop chop. Believe in Britain.
    Parliament is sabotaging Britain's ability to get a deal though, didn't you hear?
    The thing is, what possible deal could Boris do at the summit if he went in with a majority and the threat of No Deal? The only one is the original WA with the NI-backstop, and if it came a couple of days after the election he could get away with selling it as a negotiating triumph, for a while.
    Drop the backstop, kick the can on Ireland, agree everything else and pledge to work in good faith to sort out Ireland in the transition period.

    Job done.
    The EU wouldn't agree to it, and there wouldn't be any substantive negotiations on it in that forum. The only possibility is to revert to the previous draft of the backstop, and call it something else - "all island economic zone" or some such.
    The EU could agree to it if the alternative is no deal.
    They wouldn't, and even if they did, it isn't something that could be negotiated in a Council meeting. It would need an extension and further negotiation.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
    Er, he explicitly acknowledged to Merkel that he accepts there needs to be an alternative to the backstop. Remember how grateful he was that she gave him 30 days?

    He's very polite to ladies, especially when anyone's watching
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    HYUFD said:

    If the filibuster works - how dumb are the forces of Remain going to look? And especially, those Tory MPs who have lost their jobs for a Bill that ran into the sands...


    Why would they look dumb? They tried their best. Cant win every battle.
    Yet you think that Boris will look dumb if he tries his best but gets thwarted by Remain MPs?
    But he hasn’t tried anything. He has not proposed anything to the EU.
    He has, the WA minus the backstop
    To which they have asked him to propose what he wants to replace the backstop with.

    We’re still waiting.
    We're too early to say nothing.

    There is no need for anything to replace the backstop.
    The EU beg to differ. They are not going to capitulate.
    Parliament has voted it down 3 times - why would they want a nation to accept something the people’s parliament voted down ?

    They need to be more inventive if they want a deal.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    You have to remember that Boris is a buffoon but not an idiot
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