politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next Speaker
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Parts of our constitution are codified which might be the problem.DougSeal said:
As I never tire of boring people - our constitution isn’t unwritten, it’s just uncodifiedMyBurningEars said:I'm actually not a fan of written constitutions, and I'm even less of a fan of the supposedly stark distinction between written and unwritten. In reality, big parts of the UK constitution are written (spread across many pieces of legislation rather than one single coherent document) and big parts of many other countries' constitutions are not actually in the big document that proclaims itself to be The Constitution - there are still other pieces of legislation with constitutional impact, and layer upon layer of precedent and practice.
But if constitutional matters don't get sorted out settle down over the next few years, I am going to become more deeply persuaded of the need for a written UK constitution. Won't stop brinkmanship or people pushing things to the limits, of course, but may make it clearer where exactly those limits are.
I prefer the good old days when our constitution was based on letters to The Times using pseudonyms.0 -
There haven't been millennia of Islamic thought, and you are wrong: it is loopy even on its own terms. God rested on day 7, he didn't say anybody else had to. Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
Plus I'd be more impressed if the three main lots of them didn't give three different answers out of a possible seven to the question, which is the sabbath?0 -
so a normal election thenCasino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.0 -
Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
The ORANGE BookNigel_Foremain said:
THAN the authoritarian right wingNigel_Foremain said:
Not really. The One Nation Conservative values are very similar to the Yellow Book LDs. There are very strong similarities. There is much more in common between these two and the authoritarian right wing that now dominates the Tory PartyCasino_Royale said:
My point is they are still two very different parties with different sets of values.williamglenn said:
I don't think they'd expect you to have a same-sex marriage.Casino_Royale said:
It's a good example of the hurdles Conservatives have to go through to join the Lib Dems though.Chris said:Quite funny to see Phllip Lee's justification for abstaining on same-sex marriage.
He thought marriage should be left to "churches, other religious institutions and humanist groups."
Apparently the man's never heard of register offices. Amazing how out-of-touch our masters can be.
I'd certainly never do so.0 -
My gut instinct is that Labour could do even worse than a UNS. I expect their 25% core vote to be even more concentrated in big cities than their 40% vote. The white working class voters they have lost are more scattered. With the Lib Dems it could be a similar story among younger unversity graduates, though that changes if they win a lot of leafy suburbs voters.Casino_Royale said:
I'm not sure I trust any opinion polls anymore. A YouGov constituency poll would probably be it. In lieu of that i'd look at Brexit petition densities and local election results, but lots of error in both.GIN1138 said:
Here we go... Opnion really starting to move ahead of the general election.Tissue_Price said:This one will get the "changes from GE2017" treatment...
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1168923257875181571
I just trust my gut which tells me results will follow demographics and values (not UNS) and constituency results could be all over the place with lots of nominal three way marginals thereafter.0 -
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As an ex member, I would have preferred it if a leading Conservative figure, through his stupidity and incompetence had not created the only conditions in which Jeremy Corbyn might take power. It is about time BoZo owned it, but I suspect, like all lightweights, he will blame someone elseOldKingCole said:According to the Guardian 'The prime minister would not expect people who have voted to take power away from this government and to hand it to the opposition, to be a Conservative candidate or a Conservative MP.'
And 'voting' apparently includes abstaining.
We could soon have almost as many ex-Tories as Tories in the House!0 -
That wasn't a particularly difficult prediction to make.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49570682Benpointer said:apologies if this has already been posted but I'm trying to organise my evening - does anyone have a potential timetable of events in the HoC this evening?
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I am secular so don't believe in any of it, but from the starting premises it is very logical. In fact that is one of the problems of the fundamentalists. They follow logic wherever it goes, even if you get to stupid situations like being able to get in a lift but not being able to press the button.Ishmael_Z said:
There haven't been millennia of Islamic thought, and you are wrong: it is loopy even on its own terms. God rested on day 7, he didn't say anybody else had to. Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
Plus I'd be more impressed if the three main lots of them didn't give three different answers out of a possible seven to the question, which is the sabbath?
And I was speaking about millenia in aggregate.0 -
Those are two distinct wings of the respective parties that share a lot with regard to social liberalism. It's a question of degree, yes, but there's also the median of the values the parties hold which is somewhere quite different for both.Nigel_Foremain said:
Not really. The One Nation Conservative values are very similar to the Yellow Book LDs. There are very strong similarities. There is much more in common between these two and the authoritarian right wing that now dominates the Tory PartyCasino_Royale said:
My point is they are still two very different parties with different sets of values.williamglenn said:
I don't think they'd expect you to have a same-sex marriage.Casino_Royale said:
It's a good example of the hurdles Conservatives have to go through to join the Lib Dems though.Chris said:Quite funny to see Phllip Lee's justification for abstaining on same-sex marriage.
He thought marriage should be left to "churches, other religious institutions and humanist groups."
Apparently the man's never heard of register offices. Amazing how out-of-touch our masters can be.
I'd certainly never do so.
I could see George Osborne and Jeremy Browne in the same party, for instance, but not Evan Harris and David Cameron.0 -
Do you have a source for that?edmundintokyo said:
You're out-of-date on that, IIUC. Their current position is for a renegotiation followed by a referendum, with a Remain option.Gabs2 said:
Labour are not committed to a referendum on any deal they agree. And it is not a binary choice.0 -
Well put. I was going to draft a response to his absurd claim but you did a much better job of it.Ishmael_Z said:
There haven't been millennia of Islamic thought, and you are wrong: it is loopy even on its own terms. God rested on day 7, he didn't say anybody else had to. Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
Plus I'd be more impressed if the three main lots of them didn't give three different answers out of a possible seven to the question, which is the sabbath?0 -
Interesting
There is a wooden bridge that allows access across the River Lossie in Lossiemouth to the lovely East Beach that has been deemed dangerous and has been closed for safety. It has caused a stir in the community as they value their access but £500,000 is needed to restore it
Well, today the SNP have announced funding for a new bridge to resolve the problem
Of course Douglas Ross (conservative) is their mp
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I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.0 -
Or a time perhaps?Gabs2 said:
Do you have a source for that?edmundintokyo said:
You're out-of-date on that, IIUC. Their current position is for a renegotiation followed by a referendum, with a Remain option.Gabs2 said:
Labour are not committed to a referendum on any deal they agree. And it is not a binary choice.0 -
Corbyn could offer to slaughter all the first born and he'd still get 20%AndyJS said:
It beats me why Labour are still ahead of the LDs but that's how it is apparently.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit0 -
What time do we expect the vote do people know?0
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10ishkinabalu said:What time do we expect the vote do people know?
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349 suicide deaths in Wales of mainly men in the last 12 months
That is dreadful0 -
Just as Jared O’Mara stages a remarkable recovery, Boris Johnson looks deeply ill.0
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Here we go again. First born every bloody time. I feel picked on.Pulpstar said:
Corbyn could offer to slaughter all the first born and he'd still get 20%AndyJS said:
It beats me why Labour are still ahead of the LDs but that's how it is apparently.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit0 -
HEHE
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You were talking bolloxGabs2 said:
I am secular so don't believe in any of it, but from the starting premises it is very logical. In fact that is one of the problems of the fundamentalists. They follow logic wherever it goes, even if you get to stupid situations like being able to get in a lift but not being able to press the button.Ishmael_Z said:
There haven't been millennia of Islamic thought, and you are wrong: it is loopy even on its own terms. God rested on day 7, he didn't say anybody else had to. Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
Plus I'd be more impressed if the three main lots of them didn't give three different answers out of a possible seven to the question, which is the sabbath?
And I was speaking about millenia in aggregate.0 -
I think it is unlikely but not very very hard. The problem is after an election there wont be a majority for soft Brexit or 2nd ref either (assuming Tory MPs block any Corbyn deal and Labour MPs block any Johnson deal, both of which seem likely).anothernick said:
Exactly. The defeat of the remain Goliath by the leave Davids in 2016 - much against everyone's expectations - was a necessary but not sufficient condition for the delivery of Brexit. The leavers had no clear plan for leaving and the remain forces, though shocked and cowed, were not completely vanquished - they felt that the narrowness of the result and the need to preserve national unity would lead the leavers to propose a soft Brexit - staying in the EU economic structure but leaving the political structure, the kind of Norway solution which many leavers had promoted during the referendum campaign.Nigel_Foremain said:
It is the pendulum effect and if that is true, the "fault" lies with the ERG and all the other tossers who thought they would position themselves one way in the referendum, and then as soon as they got their narrow victory thought they would stick bells and whistles on it and to hell with everyone elseByronic said:
It’s too late. Remainers scent total victory. They won’t hold back now.SouthamObserver said:
Brace.
But the victorious leavers overreached themselves - they thought that their victory had transformed them overnight into the political Goliaths who could impose their own extreme version of Brexit even though there was absolutely no evidence that it could command popular support. Even after this was made abundantly clear by the result of the 2017 election leavers pushed ahead making more and more absurd and unrealistic demands of the EU in the belief that the referendum result was a cast iron guarantee that the UK would leave in all circumstances. irrespective of the damage done in the process. All compromise was scorned, they were determined to force through no deal, and so now we have got to the position in which a deal is impossible and the only options open to us are a no deal departure or the collapse of Brexit. And the latter is now the most likely, it is very, very hard to see an election producing a parliament with a majority for no deal.
So we will just go round and round on the never ending grim roundabout.0 -
Mr. NorthWales, it is, although I'm a little surprised it isn't higher. The suicide rate is alarmingly high. As you say, it's mostly a male phenomenon (likewise homelessness).
Anyway, I must be off.0 -
Yep, I’m inclined to agree. And the Tories will be massacred at the subsequent election.ralphmalph said:
I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.
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This GE is going to boil down to voting for or against a No Deal Brexit. Anything else is noise. I am appalled by anti-Semitism but will probably be voting tactically for my Labour MP because I live in a marginal and the Tory is likely to be hardline Brexit headbanger. I also don't believe for a moment that my MP is an anti-semite.Gabs2 said:
If you are comfortable voting for someone that commemorates the murderers of Jewish civilians, you do that. Given how much of my family has been killed by anti-Semitism, I could never do that and have a clean conscience.Gallowgate said:
Yeah yeah. I am Jewish you imbecile.Gabs2 said:
Nobody has to do anything. You are making a choice that you value the EU more than solidarity with your Jewish compatriots.Gallowgate said:I can't believe I'm going to have to vote for Corbyn's Labour. Christ.
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Your last point I agree with almost unreservedly (though it might still be that the Brexit mess needs another one to resolve).MyBurningEars said:Whatever way Brexit winds up going (or even if it doesn't happen at all), I think our unwritten constitution is really showing the strain at the moment and is going to need a serious rethink. I think the bare minimum is:
1) Have a less "inventive" speaker for a while. Actually I don't especially blame Bercow for doing what he sees fit to keep power in Parliament's court, but politicising the position is dangerous for reasons given in this very good debut thread header. (snipped)
2) Also topical at the moment, this Fixed Term Parliament Act is having some knock-on effects that I do not believe were intended, and which I believe are highly corrosive. What was intended to make hung parliaments more politically navigable (by making coalition agreements more easily binding) has in some ways made things worse, with zombie governments unable to function but perhaps unable to call an election either. The 2/3 supermajority thing has also always struck me as quite un-British - I've always hoped it wouldn't be used as a precedent to extend supermajorities into other areas.
3) There's an argument that politicians need to cool it with the referenda for a while. I like the fact that in theory they can break up political stitch-ups between the major parties, and I think e.g. Swiss voters get a much bigger voice about what their country should look like as a result of them, but in practice they don't seem to mesh well with our political system.We need to have a long hard re-think about referenda, how they're called, how they work (especially how "actionable" the question needs to be, access to Civil Service resources for both sides etc) and how both government and parliament should respond to the results.
As for the first point, I think the Speaker controversy arises largely from the coincidence of an irretrievably hung Parliament, and all consuming national issue which cuts across party lines. I think any Speaker would have been deeply unpopular with at least one of the sides in the argument, and Bercow has at least attempted to allow Parliament to speak, rather than let an executive without a real mandate completely dictate events.
If the major parties are going to remain ideological, then messing with the office of the Speaker is merely distraction. I think in that circumstance, only PR would solve things.
I actually quite like the FTPA. Its interaction with the current Parliament has been unfortunate, but see my comments above re the Speaker. Some rewriting of it, to deal with lacunae which have made themselves obvious, and perhaps a modification of the 2/3rds hurdle, are in order0 -
Sometimes the short answers are the most incisive.malcolmg said:
You were talking bolloxGabs2 said:
I am secular so don't believe in any of it, but from the starting premises it is very logical. In fact that is one of the problems of the fundamentalists. They follow logic wherever it goes, even if you get to stupid situations like being able to get in a lift but not being able to press the button.Ishmael_Z said:
There haven't been millennia of Islamic thought, and you are wrong: it is loopy even on its own terms. God rested on day 7, he didn't say anybody else had to. Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
Plus I'd be more impressed if the three main lots of them didn't give three different answers out of a possible seven to the question, which is the sabbath?
And I was speaking about millenia in aggregate.0 -
Rayner needs to slow down. Jesus.0
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That's not been my experience but if the facts change I will change my opinion.ralphmalph said:
I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.
I am mainly interested in correctly judging markets at the moment to make money.0 -
Yes G, and I bet the Tory offered nothing , zilch , nada. They can only carp from the sidelines. That balloon Carlaw today in reply to the Government programme could only say "unlike Nicola Sturgeon I do not dye my hair", they are deplorable.Big_G_NorthWales said:Interesting
There is a wooden bridge that allows access across the River Lossie in Lossiemouth to the lovely East Beach that has been deemed dangerous and has been closed for safety. It has caused a stir in the community as they value their access but £500,000 is needed to restore it
Well, today the SNP have announced funding for a new bridge to resolve the problem
Of course Douglas Ross (conservative) is their mp
PS I have never heard or seen any utterance from Ross, he must be one of their silent donkeys.0 -
Agreed. 2024 = 1997 on steroidsSouthamObserver said:
Yep, I’m inclined to agree. And the Tories will be massacred at the subsequent election.ralphmalph said:
I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.0 -
Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ
0 -
For example see the letter quoted in https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/09/jeremy-corbyn-calls-second-brexit-referendum-says-labour-backs-remain-10137078/Gabs2 said:
Do you have a source for that?edmundintokyo said:
You're out-of-date on that, IIUC. Their current position is for a renegotiation followed by a referendum, with a Remain option.Gabs2 said:
Labour are not committed to a referendum on any deal they agree. And it is not a binary choice.0 -
I also suspect Conservative support is a mile wide and an inch deep and when details of Boris's Beyond Brexit Brainwaves come out support will fall away. His rehashed Thatcherism will go down like a lump of cold sick in most places.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
As for YouGov, it had the LDs at 17 then 21 and now 16 - completely hopeless. The Conservatives edge up as Farage is silenced but that will change if we get a GE.
1 -
It wouldn't surprise me if Mrs May voted with Ken Clarke tonight and loses the Tory whip. This would emphasise that the Tory Party has been temporarily taken over by BXP infiltraitors but the genuine Tory Party is still alive and kicking and is getting organised.Luckyguy1983 said:
No, of course not, I think someone just said something funny. May and Clarke didn't just sit there giggling all the way through it because of some uncontrollable schadenfreude inspired tic. They're not Dreyfuss out of Pink Panther.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is it my imagination or does TMay have a "fuck you Boris" expression on her face?williamglenn said:0 -
It could simply be 2017 all over again but still further polarised too.Alanbrooke said:
so a normal election thenCasino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
I'm not sure what that means in terms of seats. But I'm not sure if Corbyn would be an obstacle if it's the only way to block Boris in parts.
Of course, the converse would apply elsewhere.0 -
So..., have we reached the end of days of this government yet?0
-
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
Not yet, we might tonight if Mrs May votes against the government and has the whip removed.kle4 said:So..., have we reached the end of days of this government yet?
0 -
Not with our productivity levels.Ishmael_Z said:
Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring0 -
Repeated on the telly last night tooedmundintokyo said:
For example see the letter quoted in https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/09/jeremy-corbyn-calls-second-brexit-referendum-says-labour-backs-remain-10137078/Gabs2 said:
Do you have a source for that?edmundintokyo said:
You're out-of-date on that, IIUC. Their current position is for a renegotiation followed by a referen dum, with a Remain option.Gabs2 said:
Labour are not committed to a referendum on any deal they agree. And it is not a binary choice.0 -
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
Is there any chance of that happening?TheScreamingEagles said:
Not yet, we might tonight if Mrs May votes against the government and has the whip removed.kle4 said:So..., have we reached the end of days of this government yet?
0 -
That's an amusing one. They are all real Tories, but the current crop leading the way are definitely more demonstrative of what the party wants and stands for than May and definitely Clarke. They are the genuine deal, the party has just changed is all.Barnesian said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Mrs May voted with Ken Clarke tonight and loses the Tory whip. This would emphasise that the Tory Party has been temporarily taken over by BXP infiltraitors but the genuine Tory Party is still alive and kicking and is getting organised.Luckyguy1983 said:
No, of course not, I think someone just said something funny. May and Clarke didn't just sit there giggling all the way through it because of some uncontrollable schadenfreude inspired tic. They're not Dreyfuss out of Pink Panther.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is it my imagination or does TMay have a "fuck you Boris" expression on her face?williamglenn said:0 -
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1168934188193648641 latest YouGov.0
-
Well I never thought bracknell would ever have a Lib Dem MP having been Lib Dem Town Mayor of Sandhurst 95/96 he and Sarah Wollaston share several things in common bother being GPS and both selected in open primaries. I doubt the tories will try that again.0
-
On any measure Johnson's government is extremely chaotic. Unless these people approve of chaos or think competence is an overrated virtue in a government...ralphmalph said:
I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.0 -
Well, not immediately.williamglenn said:
I don't think they'd expect you to have a same-sex marriage.Casino_Royale said:
It's a good example of the hurdles Conservatives have to go through to join the Lib Dems though.Chris said:Quite funny to see Phllip Lee's justification for abstaining on same-sex marriage.
He thought marriage should be left to "churches, other religious institutions and humanist groups."
Apparently the man's never heard of register offices. Amazing how out-of-touch our masters can be.
I'd certainly never do so.0 -
Eh, fair price to pay for such an extended period in office, if they manage it. Frankly after so long in office you probably need a political massacre to rejuvenate.dyedwoolie said:
Agreed. 2024 = 1997 on steroidsSouthamObserver said:
Yep, I’m inclined to agree. And the Tories will be massacred at the subsequent election.ralphmalph said:
I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.0 -
He seems to be popular with the fishermenmalcolmg said:
Yes G, and I bet the Tory offered nothing , zilch , nada. They can only carp from the sidelines. That balloon Carlaw today in reply to the Government programme could only say "unlike Nicola Sturgeon I do not dye my hair", they are deplorable.Big_G_NorthWales said:Interesting
There is a wooden bridge that allows access across the River Lossie in Lossiemouth to the lovely East Beach that has been deemed dangerous and has been closed for safety. It has caused a stir in the community as they value their access but £500,000 is needed to restore it
Well, today the SNP have announced funding for a new bridge to resolve the problem
Of course Douglas Ross (conservative) is their mp
PS I have never heard or seen any utterance from Ross, he must be one of their silent donkeys.0 -
Corbyn Benn demanding an extension but offering no input into why or what should happen will be a factor at any GE. There is genuine despair imo at parliaments inability to agree any way forward. Despair that is ready to become anger and accordingly votes against the rebels0
-
Cheers thanksdyedwoolie said:
10ishkinabalu said:What time do we expect the vote do people know?
0 -
People gave May's government large leads even as it demonstrated extreme chaos and incompetence too - the British public love a good trolling when it comes to how much we will back things.FF43 said:
On any measure Johnson's government is extremely chaotic. Unless these people approve of chaos or think competence is an overrated virtue in a government...ralphmalph said:
I do not know I was at a family event over the weekend, school caretaker, teaching assistant, retired, company directors, chef from level below michelin, etc.Casino_Royale said:
I think as soon as the electorate cotton on to the fact the Tories are on course for a majority they will conspire such that the Tories do not get a majority.SouthamObserver said:
Electoral Calculus shows Tory gains from the SNP in Scotland. That tells us all we need to know about Electoral Calculus.HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a Tory majority of 106.ab195 said:Well there’s a thing. Polarisation.
Tories 378, Labour 184, LDs 31.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=35&LAB=25&LIB=16&Brexit=11&Green=2&UKIP=1&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
By way of anecdote a work colleague from the North East said his father, a Leaver but a lifelong Labour voter who even voted Labour in 2015 and 2017, will vote Tory for the first time in his life out of fury that MPs are still blocking Boris delivering Brexit
Nevertheless the Tories really should win a majority, so I just don’t get where all this stuff about Brexit being over is coming from.
Everything tells me that the Tories are in a very poor position and are widely unloved.
Almost to a person Boris was showing leadership to sort the children out. I was also surprised at the strength of the we voted out, so it must be out. This was the Tory shires and it is anecdotal as well, but I stick to my view very committed pro-EU types will never forgive Boris, but the rest will give him a go.0 -
Note the language: "put their deal to voters". Their position is a referendum on a Tory Brexit. A Labour Brexit would be grand and wise and not need a referendum.edmundintokyo said:
For example see the letter quoted in https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/09/jeremy-corbyn-calls-second-brexit-referendum-says-labour-backs-remain-10137078/Gabs2 said:
Do you have a source for that?edmundintokyo said:
You're out-of-date on that, IIUC. Their current position is for a renegotiation followed by a referendum, with a Remain option.Gabs2 said:
Labour are not committed to a referendum on any deal they agree. And it is not a binary choice.0 -
Clearly totally not communicated though, not only did Gab2 who reads pb not know, it was also quite hard work finding a source that explained the current position, not one of the previous ones. (I used duckduckgo, maybe google would have worked better).Anabobazina said:
Repeated on the telly last night too0 -
Sorry political colour blindness there. Orange does sound more appealing. thank you for the correctionlAnabobazina said:Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
The ORANGE BookNigel_Foremain said:
THAN the authoritarian right wingNigel_Foremain said:
Not really. The One Nation Conservative values are very similar to the Yellow Book LDs. There are very strong similarities. There is much more in common between these two and the authoritarian right wing that now dominates the Tory PartyCasino_Royale said:
My point is they are still two very different parties with different sets of values.williamglenn said:
I don't think they'd expect you to have a same-sex marriage.Casino_Royale said:
It's a good example of the hurdles Conservatives have to go through to join the Lib Dems though.Chris said:Quite funny to see Phllip Lee's justification for abstaining on same-sex marriage.
He thought marriage should be left to "churches, other religious institutions and humanist groups."
Apparently the man's never heard of register offices. Amazing how out-of-touch our masters can be.
I'd certainly never do so.0 -
NoGallowgate said:
Is there any chance of that happening?TheScreamingEagles said:
Not yet, we might tonight if Mrs May votes against the government and has the whip removed.kle4 said:So..., have we reached the end of days of this government yet?
0 -
I do hope she does, but I doubt it. Interesting that she is sitting with him thoughBarnesian said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Mrs May voted with Ken Clarke tonight and loses the Tory whip. This would emphasise that the Tory Party has been temporarily taken over by BXP infiltraitors but the genuine Tory Party is still alive and kicking and is getting organised.Luckyguy1983 said:
No, of course not, I think someone just said something funny. May and Clarke didn't just sit there giggling all the way through it because of some uncontrollable schadenfreude inspired tic. They're not Dreyfuss out of Pink Panther.Nigel_Foremain said:
Is it my imagination or does TMay have a "fuck you Boris" expression on her face?williamglenn said:0 -
Well someone texted me 20 mins ago about the potential of it happening.Gallowgate said:
Is there any chance of that happening?TheScreamingEagles said:
Not yet, we might tonight if Mrs May votes against the government and has the whip removed.kle4 said:So..., have we reached the end of days of this government yet?
I cannot see it happening (but as her Premiership showed she would do anything to avoid No Deal because as a Unionist she thinks it will trigger the end of the Union.)0 -
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ
0 -
This matches the highest Labour vote with Yougov since mid-May - and is also the lowest LD vote share with this pollster. Labour entered the 2017 campaign with a 23% rating from Yougov.Anabobazina said:
Another very thin comfort blanket poll to get Tory loyalists through the impending night.Tissue_Price said:This one will get the "changes from GE2017" treatment...
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/11689232578751815710 -
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
Bit rich coming from Malcolmg though. He normally speaks more nonsensical bollox than anyone on hereAnabobazina said:
Sometimes the short answers are the most incisive.malcolmg said:
You were talking bolloxGabs2 said:
I am secular so don't believe in any of it, but from the starting premises it is very logical. In fact that is one of the problems of the fundamentalists. They follow logic wherever it goes, even if you get to stupid situations like being able to get in a lift but not being able to press the button.Ishmael_Z said:
There haven't been millennia of Islamic thought, and you are wrong: it is loopy even on its own terms. God rested on day 7, he didn't say anybody else had to. Why is it only his Sundays we have to copy - if we are doing that why don't we also create heaven and earth every Monday?Gabs2 said:
You are ignoring millenia of Jewish and Islamic legal thought there. Even if you don't agree with the starting premises, it is fiercely logical.Anabobazina said:
Yes applying any logic to the rules of religion is the definition of a fool’s errand.OldKingCole said:
On Oct 14th, I understand it's a Jewish holy day of some sort, where they are expected to do no work. Apparently voting counts as work. Whether or not filling in a postal vote a few days before counts as working that day, I don't know, but given some religious (from any religion) rules I wouldn't be surprised if it it did.numbertwelve said:
I am with you Big G. It’s so depressing.Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris was as poor as I can recall today coming under fire across the house and his blustering was hopeless.
In a GE he may do better but as far as I am concerned I want all these incompetent mps to face the electorate and let the voters decide
This HOC is finished and it is essential that Boris gets his GE for the 14th October
I am not even going to make any observation on the make up, I am past caring
Plus I'd be more impressed if the three main lots of them didn't give three different answers out of a possible seven to the question, which is the sabbath?
And I was speaking about millenia in aggregate.0 -
Granted!edmundintokyo said:
Clearly totally not communicated though, not only did Gab2 who reads pb not know, it was also quite hard work finding a source that explained the current position, not one of the previous ones. (I used duckduckgo, maybe google would have worked better).Anabobazina said:
Repeated on the telly last night too0 -
Sounds like there is a majority against an election.SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
Nope, read it again. It's a referendum (that's what putting it back to the people in a public vote means) whoever the PM is. Then then say they'd back Remain in that referendum if it's No Deal or a Tory Brexit. The part they're still being vague about is whether they'd campaign for or against their own deal, but they're now clear they'd have a referendum on it.Gabs2 said:
Note the language: "put their deal to voters". Their position is a referendum on a Tory Brexit. A Labour Brexit would be grand and wise and not need a referendum.
You're thinking of their previous position.0 -
What a strange thing to say. Surely it's a good illustration of the fact that there aren't any hurdles!Casino_Royale said:
It's a good example of the hurdles Conservatives have to go through to join the Lib Dems though.Chris said:Quite funny to see Phllip Lee's justification for abstaining on same-sex marriage.
He thought marriage should be left to "churches, other religious institutions and humanist groups."
Apparently the man's never heard of register offices. Amazing how out-of-touch our masters can be.0 -
He smells an election, he can stand, lose and live high on the hog on his pensionkle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
Is there a benefit being the sitting mp at an October electionkle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
These sudden shifts from triumph to despair remind me of a previous poster .SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
Total triumph for the Remainers today - the LDs acquiring a fine upstanding loyal conservative MP, MP after MP lining up to to give the the public another 3 months of Brexit delay with the generous present of £3+ Bn to the EU that that entails plus the lovely spectacle of remainers loyalty waving the blue and yellow whilst shouting over media interviews.
Surely the public will warm to this festival of wondrous news ?0 -
Small clique of rich Tories G, as I say I had not heard of him till you put his name up , invisible like the rest of them. They really do nothing for Scotland.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He seems to be popular with the fishermenmalcolmg said:
Yes G, and I bet the Tory offered nothing , zilch , nada. They can only carp from the sidelines. That balloon Carlaw today in reply to the Government programme could only say "unlike Nicola Sturgeon I do not dye my hair", they are deplorable.Big_G_NorthWales said:Interesting
There is a wooden bridge that allows access across the River Lossie in Lossiemouth to the lovely East Beach that has been deemed dangerous and has been closed for safety. It has caused a stir in the community as they value their access but £500,000 is needed to restore it
Well, today the SNP have announced funding for a new bridge to resolve the problem
Of course Douglas Ross (conservative) is their mp
PS I have never heard or seen any utterance from Ross, he must be one of their silent donkeys.0 -
Leaver paranoia or Leaver irrationality. Take your pick lol.SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
Are 7% really going to vote Green ?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1168934188193648641 latest YouGov.
0 -
It says whoever becomes "the new Prime Minister", specifically referring to the choice between Hunt and Johnson, not whoever becomes PM at any point in the future.edmundintokyo said:
Nope, read it again. It's a referendum (that's what putting it back to the people in a public vote means) whoever the PM is. Then then say they'd back Remain in that referendum if it's No Deal or a Tory Brexit. The part they're still being vague about is whether they'd campaign for or against their own deal, but they're now clear they'd have a referendum on it.Gabs2 said:
Note the language: "put their deal to voters". Their position is a referendum on a Tory Brexit. A Labour Brexit would be grand and wise and not need a referendum.
You're thinking of their previous position.0 -
There’s a majority against an election that might cause a No Deal before the vote happens. Once that is resolved we’ll be going to the polls.Gabs2 said:
Sounds like there is a majority against an election.SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ
0 -
I thought everyone knew. According to his Wikipedia page:kle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
"He has cerebral palsy, hemiparesis and is on the autism spectrum."0 -
I swear there used to be more of a parachute payment if you lost an election vs stood down, but I believe that was changed a few years ago.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Is there a benefit being the sitting mp at an October electionkle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
Gab2 is just trolling .edmundintokyo said:
Clearly totally not communicated though, not only did Gab2 who reads pb not know, it was also quite hard work finding a source that explained the current position, not one of the previous ones. (I used duckduckgo, maybe google would have worked better).Anabobazina said:
Repeated on the telly last night too
The position for sometime for Labour is , no to no deal ,any deal put to a referendum with remain on the ballot.0 -
I am warming to O'Mara.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
I like the idea of all those LibDems with nothing better to do canvassing in Crookes (where else for the LibDems).
Just waiting for O'Mara to resign. "Ha, Fooled you, fooled you", O'Mara says. "I'm really well"0 -
Has his doctor signed him off the sick? Has his employer assessed him as fit enough to work? He's been off a while so some form of back to work programme would be in order. Or is it all a load of old bollocks that MPs can milk?kle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
I fecking hate Westminster and at the risk of going all Kevin Keegan, I'm absolutely loving watching it all rot around them.0 -
No, they wont field more than 250 candidates in all likelihoodPulpstar said:
Are 7% really going to vote Green ?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1168934188193648641 latest YouGov.
0 -
Nick Palmer pointed out yesterday there is an additional £13,000 or so if you contest the election.kle4 said:
I swear there used to be more of a parachute payment if you lost an election vs stood down, but I believe that was changed a few years ago.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Is there a benefit being the sitting mp at an October electionkle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
It is clear there is a majority for Corbyn's extension bill to pass. That will extend Brexit for another three months and there will be a majority against an election until that deadline comes up. Then the same thing will happen again.SouthamObserver said:
There’s a majority against an election that might cause a No Deal before the vote happens. Once that is resolved we’ll be going to the polls.Gabs2 said:
Sounds like there is a majority against an election.SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
I wasn't referring to his physical and general mental health concerns, as he would no doubt say himself you can still do the job with those concerns, but about his behaviour, record as an MP etc etc.Chris said:
I thought everyone knew. According to his Wikipedia page:kle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
"He has cerebral palsy, hemiparesis and is on the autism spectrum."0 -
No add 5% to Lab.Pulpstar said:
Are 7% really going to vote Green ?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1168934188193648641 latest YouGov.
0 -
Oh yes. Things have changed the last two years.Pulpstar said:
Are 7% really going to vote Green ?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1168934188193648641 latest YouGov.
0 -
Possibly. They got 18% across the South West in the EU elections, and obviously it would be a lot less than that given the voting system, not as many candidates and so on, but if Labour are to do badly, its possible to see the Greens doing pretty well.Pulpstar said:
Are 7% really going to vote Green ?dr_spyn said:https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1168934188193648641 latest YouGov.
Though personally I think the 'hold the nose and vote Labour' pull will be strong.0 -
After what we have seen from MPs over the last 2 years, O'Mara seems quite balanced and well-suited to the place.kle4 said:
I wasn't referring to his physical and general mental health concerns, as he would no doubt say himself you can still do the job with those concerns, but about his behaviour, record as an MP etc etc.Chris said:
I thought everyone knew. According to his Wikipedia page:kle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
"He has cerebral palsy, hemiparesis and is on the autism spectrum."
0 -
Point me to somewhere, anywhere, where Labour say that a Labour government would put their deal to a referendum. You won't be able to because they haven't. Corbyn's position is that Tory PMs should put Tory deals to the voters, but Labour deals should not have to.Yorkcity said:
Gab2 is just trolling .edmundintokyo said:
Clearly totally not communicated though, not only did Gab2 who reads pb not know, it was also quite hard work finding a source that explained the current position, not one of the previous ones. (I used duckduckgo, maybe google would have worked better).Anabobazina said:
Repeated on the telly last night too
The position for sometime for Labour is , no to no deal ,any deal put to a referendum with remain on the ballot.0 -
Meanwhile Boris's genius idea of threatening to deselect MPs may cause additional defections. POBWASGabs2 said:
It is clear there is a majority for Corbyn's extension bill to pass. That will extend Brexit for another three months and there will be a majority against an election until that deadline comes up. Then the same thing will happen again.SouthamObserver said:
There’s a majority against an election that might cause a No Deal before the vote happens. Once that is resolved we’ll be going to the polls.Gabs2 said:
Sounds like there is a majority against an election.SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ0 -
TWS it is Westminster, they can bring them in, at death's door, on a stretcher. Place is a cesspit.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Has his doctor signed him off the sick? Has his employer assessed him as fit enough to work? He's been off a while so some form of back to work programme would be in order. Or is it all a load of old bollocks that MPs can milk?kle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
I fecking hate Westminster and at the risk of going all Kevin Keegan, I'm absolutely loving watching it all rot around them.0 -
No he doesn't, not even then.YBarddCwsc said:
After what we have seen from MPs over the last 2 years, O'Mara seems quite balanced and well-suited to the place.kle4 said:
I wasn't referring to his physical and general mental health concerns, as he would no doubt say himself you can still do the job with those concerns, but about his behaviour, record as an MP etc etc.Chris said:
I thought everyone knew. According to his Wikipedia page:kle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/1168928789071638534
"He has cerebral palsy, hemiparesis and is on the autism spectrum."
He's thinking long term - proof of his obeisance to the Brexit Party and hoping votes gained there overcomes attempts to unite a fragile remain alliance of LD/Lab/Nationalists and former Tories.Nigel_Foremain said:
Meanwhile Boris's genius idea of threatening to deselect MPs may cause additional defections. POBWASGabs2 said:
It is clear there is a majority for Corbyn's extension bill to pass. That will extend Brexit for another three months and there will be a majority against an election until that deadline comes up. Then the same thing will happen again.SouthamObserver said:
There’s a majority against an election that might cause a No Deal before the vote happens. Once that is resolved we’ll be going to the polls.Gabs2 said:
Sounds like there is a majority against an election.SouthamObserver said:
Then why on earth do you think Brexit is finished? It’s pretty clear there’s going to be an election. It’s likely the Tories will win it and, when they do, we’ll leave.Byronic said:
No, I don’t. I expect a significant poll shift to the Tories. If I’m wrong, shoot me. MetaphoricallyAnabobazina said:
“This is my analysis. And if you don’t like it, I have others.”Byronic said:Boris will be delighted with the BBC six. All about No Surrender by Bojo
Meanwhile the optics shown are EU flags flying above Parliament Sq and T May chortling over Boris’ discomfort (apparently)
Could easily be wrong, but I think this plays very well for BJ
0 -
There are hurdles in values and principles.Chris said:
What a strange thing to say. Surely it's a good illustration of the fact that there aren't any hurdles!Casino_Royale said:
It's a good example of the hurdles Conservatives have to go through to join the Lib Dems though.Chris said:Quite funny to see Phllip Lee's justification for abstaining on same-sex marriage.
He thought marriage should be left to "churches, other religious institutions and humanist groups."
Apparently the man's never heard of register offices. Amazing how out-of-touch our masters can be.
They are completely different parties. Switching is never easy (except perhaps for Sarah Wollaston).0 -
Not to be sniffed at. Surprised Onasanya didn't go for it.eek said:
Nick Palmer pointed out yesterday there is an additional £13,000 or so if you contest the election.kle4 said:
I swear there used to be more of a parachute payment if you lost an election vs stood down, but I believe that was changed a few years ago.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Is there a benefit being the sitting mp at an October electionkle4 said:
He might consider himself well enough to return to work, but there does seem something not right with the man.dr_spyn said:O'Mara not so unwell after all.
https://twitter.com/samcoopernews/status/11689287890716385340 -
Tis a boost for Johnson.TGOHF said:Total triumph for the Remainers today - the LDs acquiring a fine upstanding loyal conservative MP, MP after MP lining up to to give the the public another 3 months of Brexit delay with the generous present of £3+ Bn to the EU that that entails plus the lovely spectacle of remainers loyalty waving the blue and yellow whilst shouting over media interviews.
Surely the public will warm to this festival of wondrous news ?
Cant see him lasting 6 weeks of scrutiny a GE brings though0 -
Well, I'm in Parliament Square to protest against Johnson, his prorogation and drive for no-deal Brexit, one more body to be counted, but - Lord above - left-wing speeches are dull.0
