politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Summary : August 2019

OnlyLivingBoy said:

malcolmg said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

eristdoof said:

I remember hearing a PR man from Carling proudly boasting that they have a 7 day turnaround from hops and water to pouring the pint in the pub.

I think that is something they should be ashamed of not proud of.

Whatever the pros and cons of Carling is - remember it's a Brisky Yoon campaign to stop the Scottish Groat in its tracks (Tennents being a very similar beverage but brewed in Glasgow)

So remember Yoons

#Carling4Tennents4indyref2

And English comrades have their own hashtag with tennents being pretty much unavailable in England-

#Whiskey4Whisky4indyref2.

Tennants may be cooking lager but it is far and away better than Carling.

Tennents make terrible lager but they made the best ever lager advert.

https://youtu.be/TX9h558Tz1E

Carling made a pretty good one too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u18b65Om2jA

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Tennents make terrible lager but they made the best ever lager advert.

I was outside the "pub" the day they were filming that

Also the ultimate Leaver advert...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuIJqF8av6I

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1168243960306966529

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1168243960306966529

A government that shuts down parliament for five weeks is discourteous, not willing to compromise and doesn't want to meet MPs?

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1168243960306966529

I'll save them the time for any future instances. The only point of this government is to keep Boris in power as PM. To achieve that, it will do anything at all in whatever way it can.

Any statement, policy or other pronouncement by this government should be viewed through this prism. All else is flim flam.

Cyclefree said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

The Vote Leave campaign also promised that there would be a deal. If they can break that promise by going for No Deal then the other promises they made can also be ignored.

“There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave… The idea that our trade will suffer because we stop imposing terrible rules such as the Clinical Trial Directive is silly.” - Vote Leave

“We will negotiate a UK-EU Treaty that enables us 1) to continue cooperating in many areas just as now (e.g. maritime surveillance), 2) to deepen cooperation in some areas (e.g. scientific collaborations and counter-terrorism)” – Vote Leave

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Perhaps it will replace the "No true Scotsman" fallacy - especially after Scotland leaves

"No true Brexiteer...."

So, how many Tory rebels do we think there are, ready to vote to prevent No Deal?

And how many opposition MPs might support the government?

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

No, there's no hope.

We shall probably end up No Dealing. A US trade deal will turn out to be a chimera. And the imbalances in the UK economy will bite us hard.

A difficult 2 to 3 years will either be followed by us accepting something that looks just like the Withdrawal Agreement (so, we had a nasty recession all for nothing), or a true socialist government is elected, as the all previous problems were due to lack of government intervention.

The campaign both of you voted for made EEA-EFTA impossible, I mean have you forgotten all those campaign pledges to leave the Single Market?

Things have moved on. The WA and PD were rejected.

So this is about finding a compromise that works now. And yes it might even require ratification in a second referendum.

Why should Scotland accept second-class status when they could be a full member of the EU? A soft Brexit makes it much harder to run a project fear campaign against Independence.

If it's a total clusterfuck as claimed, I would have thought it would make it easier. After all, what Scot would willingly go through a second round of food shortages, no medicine and being an international pariah just to get tartan passports?

But actually, I don't think it will be. The problem is too many people are taking 'worst case scenarios' and running with them as though they are gospel facts. Rather like those people who claimed in 1970 that due to climate change we would all die of starvation by 1995 due to overpopulation and water scarcity.

The problem with doing this is that when they world doesn't end, people will laugh and ignore the predictions - and the actual problems that undoubtedly will be caused, which is basically manufacturing leaving this country to be nearer its main market and comply with overseas trading arrangements, which may take five years and may take ten but will ultimately leave us all much worse off, especially in the North of England, the Central Belt and the Midlands.

However, if that does come about ironically by discrediting Project Fear it will make Scottish independence more likely...

Benpointer said:

So, how many Tory rebels do we think there are, ready to vote to prevent No Deal?

And how many opposition MPs might support the government?

The government seems to be doing its best to maximise the former number.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?

Mr Cameron told him to vote Remain.

I tried Carling beer once.

Enough for one lifetime. It was like drinking vinegar. Actually, some vinegars are nicer

Beibheirli_C said:

I tried Carling beer once.

Enough for one lifetime. It was like drinking vinegar. Actually, some vinegars are nicer

I'm intrigued. What vinegars have you drunk to arrive at that conclusion?

Beibheirli_C said:

Theuniondivvie said:

JBriskinindyref2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Has this been done? If so I imagine there was a chorus of demands that the silly old fool keep his nose out of matters temporal.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1168070013707636736?s=20

Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.

Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.

As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.

He’s an Anglican, so would agree with you

Wisdom comes from study, learning, discourse and thought

surbiton19 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/01/tories-no-deal-choose-career-conscience

Wow. I wonder how much of that will come to pass?

ydoethur said:

Beibheirli_C said:

I tried Carling beer once.

Enough for one lifetime. It was like drinking vinegar. Actually, some vinegars are nicer

I'm intrigued. What vinegars have you drunk to arrive at that conclusion?

Balsamic, some cider vinegars...

Of course, I do not drink them by the pint, just a sip for taste before adding as a flavouring.

Having said that, I never drank a pint of Carling. I stopped after the first mouthful (which I had the good manners not to spit out)

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

rcs1000 said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

No, there's no hope.

We shall probably end up No Dealing. A US trade deal will turn out to be a chimera. And the imbalances in the UK economy will bite us hard.

A difficult 2 to 3 years will either be followed by us accepting something that looks just like the Withdrawal Agreement (so, we had a nasty recession all for nothing), or a true socialist government is elected, as the all previous problems were due to lack of government intervention.

The campaign both of you voted for made EEA-EFTA impossible, I mean have you forgotten all those campaign pledges to leave the Single Market?

Things have moved on. The WA and PD were rejected.

So this is about finding a compromise that works now. And yes it might even require ratification in a second referendum.

Why should Scotland accept second-class status when they could be a full member of the EU? A soft Brexit makes it much harder to run a project fear campaign against Independence.

If it's a total clusterfuck as claimed, I would have thought it would make it easier. After all, what Scot would willingly go through a second round of food shortages, no medicine and being an international pariah just to get tartan passports?

But actually, I don't think it will be. The problem is too many people are taking 'worst case scenarios' and running with them as though they are gospel facts. Rather like those people who claimed in 1970 that due to climate change we would all die of starvation by 1995 due to overpopulation and water scarcity.

The problem with doing this is that when they world doesn't end, people will laugh and ignore the predictions - and the actual problems that undoubtedly will be caused, which is basically manufacturing leaving this country to be nearer its main market and comply with overseas trading arrangements, which may take five years and may take ten but will ultimately leave us all much worse off, especially in the North of England, the Central Belt and the Midlands.

However, if that does come about ironically by discrediting Project Fear it will make Scottish independence more likely...

I was talking about the EEA+CU option. If the UK ends up as a client state of the EU, the argument for Scotland to upgrade itself to full membership would be compelling.

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

So, how many Tory rebels do we think there are, ready to vote to prevent No Deal?

And how many opposition MPs might support the government?

The government seems to be doing its best to maximise the former number.

I'm thinking the 21 who signed Hammond's letter are going to look very foolish if they wimp out now.

Then there are other prominent remainers such as Grieve, Letwin, Clarke, and probably a few more I am missing, who would surely support a move to block No Deal.

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Has this been done? If so I imagine there was a chorus of demands that the silly old fool keep his nose out of matters temporal.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1168070013707636736?s=20

He is only representing his flock, 66% of Anglicans voted Leave

Given around a third of Anglicans live in the diocese of London and well over half the rest must live South of Birmingham, that figure surprises me.

Edit - come to think of it, aren't all the Anglicans in this forum Remainers?

No

(But then I am a Liberal High Anglican)

Interesting if there is another hung parliament:
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1168248511063822336?s=20

AndyJS said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

So, how many Tory rebels do we think there are, ready to vote to prevent No Deal?

And how many opposition MPs might support the government?

The government seems to be doing its best to maximise the former number.

It must be a deliberate strategy by Johnson and Cummings.

Never ascribe to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence. Neither of them are exactly famed for their interpersonal skills close up.

Charles said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Has this been done? If so I imagine there was a chorus of demands that the silly old fool keep his nose out of matters temporal.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1168070013707636736?s=20

He is only representing his flock, 66% of Anglicans voted Leave

Given around a third of Anglicans live in the diocese of London and well over half the rest must live South of Birmingham, that figure surprises me.

Edit - come to think of it, aren't all the Anglicans in this forum Remainers?

No

(But then I am a Liberal High Anglican)

So far it's 3-2 not counting HYUFD.

Benpointer said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Benpointer said:

So, how many Tory rebels do we think there are, ready to vote to prevent No Deal?

And how many opposition MPs might support the government?

The government seems to be doing its best to maximise the former number.

I'm thinking the 21 who signed Hammond's letter are going to look very foolish if they wimp out now.

Then there are other prominent remainers such as Grieve, Letwin, Clarke, and probably a few more I am missing, who would surely support a move to block No Deal.

That's never bothered Tom Watson et al.

williamglenn said:

basicbridge said:

The usual hysterical remainer nonsense here. Do none of you realise how badly this all plays in the country? People aren't fools.

Entitled foul-mouthed middle class rants from luvvies like Hugh Grant and all the plotting and scheming of the "rebels" (oh how they love that term!) earn them nothing but contempt from the broader public. When the GE comes 'remain' is going to be eviscerated.

Which of course is Cummings' strategy.....

To repeat our conversation from yesterday, when an election hasn't been called by the time parliament has been prorogued, this strategy will have failed.

FTFY

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

Why does that part of the vote leave campaign "have" to be respected, whilst their promise of a great deal with the EU is fine to be ignored? It makes no sense.

We have to break some of the vote leave promises as combined they are undeliverable. Nobody is in an authoratitive position to say which of those promises should be broken, so everyones opinion, including remainers, should be taken into account when deciding which ones to keep and which ones to break.

CaptainBuzzkill said:

The optics of Remainers burning the Union Jack are dreadful.

If this wasn't a Cummings 'false flag' operation it should be...and should be repeated as often as possible.

Brexiteers who are prepared to destroy the Union to achieve Brexit should remove that almighty beam from their eyes.

How on Earth are the Ulster Unionists failing to make any headway? Appreciate it’s hard to understand from 300 miles away but you’d think there was room in NI for a moderate “let’s have a working assembly and compromise on Brexit” Unionist Party.

noneoftheabove said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

Why does that part of the vote leave campaign "have" to be respected, whilst their promise of a great deal with the EU is fine to be ignored? It makes no sense.

The Brexit vote has led to:

Boris Johnson as PM;
Jeremy Corbyn touting himself as a unity candidate for PM;
The longest serving Conservative Cabinet Minister since the Second World War threatening to no-confidence a conservative government;
Nicola Sturgeon declaring generations last two years;
The Italians electing an anti-European government and lumbering it with pro-European conditions;
Will Hutton getting an economic prediction right;
Republicans calling for the monarchy to assert its power and override the democratic executive;
and the democratic executive using the reserve powers of the monarchy to avoid democratic scrutiny.

And you expect things to make sense?

basicbridge said:

No government (not even Johnson's) is going to survive beyond April. His strategy has unequivocally linked Johnson with Brexit. He will win an anti-establishment election whether it is before or after Brexit as, if Brexit is delayed. it will be abundantly clear whose fault that is.

You think he can lead us out with no deal in November and still win an election in the new year?

williamglenn said:

CaptainBuzzkill said:

The optics of Remainers burning the Union Jack are dreadful.

If this wasn't a Cummings 'false flag' operation it should be...and should be repeated as often as possible.

It was photoshopped, so not a false flag but simply a lie.

They don’t care what is a lie and what isn’t as long as they win.

Gallowgate said:

williamglenn said:

CaptainBuzzkill said:

The optics of Remainers burning the Union Jack are dreadful.

If this wasn't a Cummings 'false flag' operation it should be...and should be repeated as often as possible.

It was photoshopped, so not a false flag but simply a lie.

They don’t care what is a lie and what isn’t as long as they win.

I suppose we should be glad they didn't project it on to a bus.

CaptainBuzzkill said:

The optics of Remainers burning the Union Jack are dreadful.

If this wasn't a Cummings 'false flag' operation it should be...and should be repeated as often as possible.

You're condoning 'false flag' operations?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

The Lib Dems, Greens, and Labour need to agree to not stand against Tory ‘no deal’ rebels in the next election if they get deselected. These are unprecedented times and need unprecedented actions.

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1168259258464575500

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1168256125713735680

Johnson diplomacy working well again I see.

DougSeal said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

Well, no. It’s respecting the first and last bullet points in this part of the Leave pitch that Johnson is betraying Leave voters by ignoring-

No, as Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement to move to a FTA while replacing the backstop with a technical solution so the whole UK leaves the single market and customs union and replaces free movement with a points system and can do its own trade deals and is free of control from European courts

HYUFD said:

DougSeal said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.

I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.

Is there still hope?

I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system

That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.

In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.

Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.

Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for

"...what Leave voters really voted for" Now there's a thing.

It's incredible the way some people are self-appointing themselves as the only true diviners of what 17m people voted for.

Vote Leave campaigned for a points system to replace free movement and to do our own trade deals, if you voted Leave that was the official campaign platform for Leave you were voting for. It has to be tried first to respect the Leave vote, staying in the Single Market and Customs Union does not deliver it

Well, no. It’s respecting the first and last bullet points in this part of the Leave pitch that Johnson is betraying Leave voters by ignoring-

No, as Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement to move to a FTA while replacing the backstop with a technical solution so the whole UK leaves the single market and customs union and replaces free movement with a points system and can do its own trade deals

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V

Gallowgate said:

Well at least we know the majority will be gone this week.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1168259785906688000?s=21

Does it matter.

Boris is goading the HOC to vonc and will fight on people v parliament, the elite, and the EU overturning their referendum

And if the polls are to be believed he is winning the argument

Also as I said this morning Boris and Farage will have candidates for these seats, probably from TBP MEPs

And to be honest any involvement with Farage turns my stomach

https://twitter.com/ottocrat/status/1168261761067376645

Apparently Dominic Cummings has game-theoried every possible scenario for the next few days and weeks, so if it all goes wrong for the government we'll know how good at game theory he is.