Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
You’re willing to accept vassalage? What’s the point?
I don't consider it as vassalage - it's only the rules to the extent required to maintain compliance with the single market - and we'd have forums to be consulted on any new economic rules, just as Norway do. This has been explored many times on here by Richard and Robert.
It removes us from all the political aspects of the EU, including crime and justice, CAP and CFP and gives us an emergency brake on free movement.
I suspect - at this stage - it might require ratification in a second referendum, however.
It's called "Government by Fax", EU makes the rules and then faxes them to Norway
That's just adding insult to injury - you'd have thought they would have at least upgraded to email by now!
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
I remember hearing a PR man from Carling proudly boasting that they have a 7 day turnaround from hops and water to pouring the pint in the pub.
I think that is something they should be ashamed of not proud of.
Whatever the pros and cons of Carling is - remember it's a Brisky Yoon campaign to stop the Scottish Groat in its tracks (Tennents being a very similar beverage but brewed in Glasgow)
So remember Yoons
#Carling4Tennents4indyref2
And English comrades have their own hashtag with tennents being pretty much unavailable in England-
#Whiskey4Whisky4indyref2.
Tennants may be cooking lager but it is far and away better than Carling.
I can barely taste the difference. Unfortunately my campaign might not be too well understood by my English Comrades, not knowing quite how ubiquitous the pint of tennents is in Scotland.
I only drink Tennants if it is the only choice in a pub, I would go elsewhere rather than drink Carling personally.
Yes well that just about some's up the joyous civic nature of yourself and other Scotnats - Hense the campaign
Unlike you joyless Carling drinking unionist whingers. Your autocorrect made a right balls of your spelling by the way.
I remember hearing a PR man from Carling proudly boasting that they have a 7 day turnaround from hops and water to pouring the pint in the pub.
I think that is something they should be ashamed of not proud of.
Whatever the pros and cons of Carling is - remember it's a Brisky Yoon campaign to stop the Scottish Groat in its tracks (Tennents being a very similar beverage but brewed in Glasgow)
So remember Yoons
#Carling4Tennents4indyref2
And English comrades have their own hashtag with tennents being pretty much unavailable in England-
#Whiskey4Whisky4indyref2.
Tennants may be cooking lager but it is far and away better than Carling.
I can barely taste the difference. Unfortunately my campaign might not be too well understood by my English Comrades, not knowing quite how ubiquitous the pint of tennents is in Scotland.
I only drink Tennants if it is the only choice in a pub, I would go elsewhere rather than drink Carling personally.
Yes well that just about some's up the joyous civic nature of yourself and other Scotnats - Hense the campaign
Unlike you joyless Carling drinking unionist whingers. Your autocorrect made a right balls of your spelling by the way.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
It keeps business and trade flowing and allows people to move around. It also would allow the continuation of Schrodinger's Border in Ireland / NI
It turns us into second-class EU members which is stupid, but the whole Brexit project is bl**dy stupid so EEA/EFTA is a huge step forward.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
Doesn't EEA require freedom of movement? Hard to reconcile that with the referendum campaign/result.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
Surely the commitment to implement rules imposed on us is only as long we want those arrangements to be maintained? If the rules are imposed deliberately to our disadvantage we can leave and/or renegotiate?
Too much is made of this downside, the UK is significant enough that it will have a say in the rules and its interests taken account of, even if no longer a formal vote. That doesnt mean we get everything we want (which is the default request/expectation from many) but they wont deliberately game the rules to hurt the UK.
Didnt want to be interviewed when campaigning for leadership of the Tory party. Didnt want to debate with rival candidates Doesnt want parliamentary scrutiny so suspends parliament Doesnt want to deal with Gauke so pretends he doesnt have time
Yet leavers still assume he is a great communicator who will run a fabulous campaign.
A coward who hides is not leadership material and that will become apparent in any GE, as it was with May.
When debate reared its ugly head, Sir Boris bravely turned and fled, Brave, Brave Brave Sir Boris...
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
It doesn't include the CU to be fair. That's the EFTA bit.
But a backstop followed by permanent arrangements on dealing with tariff differentials alone would be far more manageable.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
No, there's no hope.
We shall probably end up No Dealing. A US trade deal will turn out to be a chimera. And the imbalances in the UK economy will bite us hard.
A difficult 2 to 3 years will either be followed by us accepting something that looks just like the Withdrawal Agreement (so, we had a nasty recession all for nothing), or a true socialist government is elected, as the all previous problems were due to lack of government intervention.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
1. EEA + CU has three things going for it: - it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty. 2. It respects the referendum result. 3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
Surely the commitment to implement rules imposed on us is only as long we want those arrangements to be maintained? If the rules are imposed deliberately to our disadvantage we can leave and/or renegotiate?
Too much is made of this downside, the UK is significant enough that it will have a say in the rules and its interests taken account of, even if no longer a formal vote. That doesnt mean we get everything we want (which is the default request/expectation from many) but they wont deliberately game the rules to hurt the UK.
Exactly. That's my view.
Norway is of such a small size that its voice would be marginal either inside or out.
Has this been done? If so I imagine there was a chorus of demands that the silly old fool keep his nose out of matters temporal.
You'd have thought that someone who states his belief in "one holy catholic and apostolic church" at least every week would have a higher regard for supranational institutions.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
No, there's no hope.
We shall probably end up No Dealing. A US trade deal will turn out to be a chimera. And the imbalances in the UK economy will bite us hard.
A difficult 2 to 3 years will either be followed by us accepting something that looks just like the Withdrawal Agreement (so, we had a nasty recession all for nothing), or a true socialist government is elected, as the all previous problems were due to lack of government intervention.
The campaign both of you voted for made EEA-EFTA impossible, I mean have you forgotten all those campaign pledges to leave the Single Market?
Things have moved on. The WA and PD were rejected.
So this is about finding a compromise that works now. And yes it might even require ratification in a second referendum.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
If its a serious issue, and it probably wont be if the EU and UK want it to happen, we could just set up EFTA2-UK with similar terms separate to the existing EFTA. It is the link with the EU that counts not Norway and Switzerland.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Probably. His weekly support group (meets every Sunday) is best kept private.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Which constituency did he stand in and how many votes did he get?
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Yes, we have an established church, but I'd suggest to be a theological voice on issues of ethics and morals not raw politics.
To do so isn't much less unwise than for a member of the royal family to do so.
Didnt want to be interviewed when campaigning for leadership of the Tory party. Didnt want to debate with rival candidates Doesnt want parliamentary scrutiny so suspends parliament Doesnt want to deal with Gauke so pretends he doesnt have time
Yet leavers still assume he is a great communicator who will run a fabulous campaign.
A coward who hides is not leadership material and that will become apparent in any GE, as it was with May.
When debate reared its ugly head, Sir Boris bravely turned and fled, Brave, Brave Brave Sir Boris...
I interpret it differently. he is not retreating.
He is basically telling them to p**s off rather than indulge them further. The meeting with Hammond will I suggest be very brief and focused entirely on confirming the intent to withdraw the conservative whip just as the election is about to be called, so that they can't claim they weren't warned and he can pass that message on to his flock.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Which constituency did he stand in and how many votes did he get?
The House of Bishops and more than any other member of the Lords?
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Yes, we have an established church, but I'd suggest to be a theological voice on issues of ethics and morals not raw politics.
To do so isn't much less unwise than for a member of the royal family to do so.
You would suggest wrongly. They are there to vote as they see fit.
It isn't actually in practice that different from having union representatives elected, and we have 263 of those in the Commons alone.
Didnt want to be interviewed when campaigning for leadership of the Tory party. Didnt want to debate with rival candidates Doesnt want parliamentary scrutiny so suspends parliament Doesnt want to deal with Gauke so pretends he doesnt have time
Yet leavers still assume he is a great communicator who will run a fabulous campaign.
A coward who hides is not leadership material and that will become apparent in any GE, as it was with May.
I literally don't understand how he can say he has time to meet Hammond but no time to meet Gauke. Can't they meet at the same time? I get they he may not *want* to bother, but shouldn't the cover story be not physically possible?
Incidentally, in light of certain comments on the Andrew Marr Show today may I remind people of this little contribution I made from a few months ago:
Gove, for all his strengths, has tunnel vision, a reluctance to listen to experts who have the temerity to disagree with him and an over-reliance on ill-informed and low-grade civil servants [i.e. Dominic Cummings in this case]who clearly run rings round him, possibly without him realising. This incidentally explains why he did OK at Justice and hasn’t bombed at environment – the quality of the workforce is a whole lot better in those departments than at Education.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Which constituency did he stand in and how many votes did he get?
The House of Bishops and more than any other member of the Lords?
So the people - ordinary people like you and me - voted him in to represent them?
I do tolerate the Lords in general, mostly because they tend to act as a brake on some of the dafter legislation the Commons occasionally dreams up, but hereditary Lords and Bishops can go jump in the canal as far as I am concerned.
The only good thing about the Archbishop of Canterbury is that he did not inherit his position, but there is nothing special about a bunch of people whose authority comes from a work of fiction fiddled with over millennia to ensure power and control. If you read the Bible, God is a total git with the manners of a brat and the self-control of Donald Trump.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Which constituency did he stand in and how many votes did he get?
The House of Bishops and more than any other member of the Lords?
So the people - ordinary people like you and me - voted him in to represent them?
I do tolerate the Lords in general, mostly because they tend to act as a brake on some of the dafter legislation the Commons occasionally dreams up, but hereditary Lords and Bishops can go jump in the canal as far as I am concerned.
The only good thing about the Archbishop of Canterbury is that he did not inherit his position, but there is nothing special about a bunch of people whose authority comes from a work of fiction fiddled with over millennia to ensure power and control. If you read the Bible, God is a total git with the manners of a brat and the self-control of Donald Trump.
I dunno, hereditary peers and bishops seem to be a better idea than stuffing the place with political appointees.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Which constituency did he stand in and how many votes did he get?
The House of Bishops and more than any other member of the Lords?
So the people - ordinary people like you and me - voted him in to represent them?
I do tolerate the Lords in general, mostly because they tend to act as a brake on some of the dafter legislation the Commons occasionally dreams up, but hereditary Lords and Bishops can go jump in the canal as far as I am concerned.
Well, I had an indirect vote as a member of the Church of England. As did others, e.g. Foxy and El Capitano. So I would argue he is actually present due to a more democratic process than most members of the lords. Remember, around 90 of them are there basically because their ancestors spread their legs for the right Monarch.
Didnt want to be interviewed when campaigning for leadership of the Tory party. Didnt want to debate with rival candidates Doesnt want parliamentary scrutiny so suspends parliament Doesnt want to deal with Gauke so pretends he doesnt have time
Yet leavers still assume he is a great communicator who will run a fabulous campaign.
A coward who hides is not leadership material and that will become apparent in any GE, as it was with May.
I literally don't understand how he can say he has time to meet Hammond but no time to meet Gauke. Can't they meet at the same time? I get they he may not *want* to bother, but shouldn't the cover story be not physically possible?
Fake news, Trumpian style, is arriving in the UK. Bare faced lies will be common place, they wont be defended or avoided, merely batted back with meaningless soundbites changing the subject.
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Which constituency did he stand in and how many votes did he get?
The House of Bishops and more than any other member of the Lords?
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
No, there's no hope.
We shall probably end up No Dealing. A US trade deal will turn out to be a chimera. And the imbalances in the UK economy will bite us hard.
A difficult 2 to 3 years will either be followed by us accepting something that looks just like the Withdrawal Agreement (so, we had a nasty recession all for nothing), or a true socialist government is elected, as the all previous problems were due to lack of government intervention.
With Swinson now beating Corbyn as preferred PM at the weekend with Survation I think the Corbyn scare is now over, No Deal Brexit or not Corbyn Labour is going nowhere
Incidentally, in light of certain comments on the Andrew Marr Show today may I remind people of this little contribution I made from a few months ago:
Gove, for all his strengths, has tunnel vision, a reluctance to listen to experts who have the temerity to disagree with him and an over-reliance on ill-informed and low-grade civil servants [i.e. Dominic Cummings in this case]who clearly run rings round him, possibly without him realising. This incidentally explains why he did OK at Justice and hasn’t bombed at environment – the quality of the workforce is a whole lot better in those departments than at Education.
Didnt want to be interviewed when campaigning for leadership of the Tory party. Didnt want to debate with rival candidates Doesnt want parliamentary scrutiny so suspends parliament Doesnt want to deal with Gauke so pretends he doesnt have time
Yet leavers still assume he is a great communicator who will run a fabulous campaign.
A coward who hides is not leadership material and that will become apparent in any GE, as it was with May.
When debate reared its ugly head, Sir Boris bravely turned and fled, Brave, Brave Brave Sir Boris...
I interpret it differently. he is not retreating.
He is basically telling them to p**s off rather than indulge them further. The meeting with Hammond will I suggest be very brief and focused entirely on confirming the intent to withdraw the conservative whip just as the election is about to be called, so that they can't claim they weren't warned and he can pass that message on to his flock.
I disagree. To me it looks like he has a streak of yellow a yard wide and no spine.
He is only representing his flock, 66% of Anglicans voted Leave
Given around a third of Anglicans live in the diocese of London and well over half the rest must live South of Birmingham, that figure surprises me.
Edit - come to think of it, aren't all the Anglicans in this forum Remainers?
Well a third of Anglicans could still have voted Remain and 66% overall still voted Leave.
Catholics also voted Leave by a smaller margin, those of other religions and the non religious voted Remain
Yes HYUFD, even though my maths is nearly as bad as Diane Abbott's I got that far. I am just surprised it is that high given the population spread, although of course the demographic in the Anglican Church also tend to be older and more rural than the population as a whole.
I dunno, hereditary peers and bishops seem to be a better idea than stuffing the place with political appointees.
You are quite correct. I think the Upper Chamber should be elected on 15 year terms 1/3rd standing every 5 years.
+1 Very good plan.
Somebody else came up with it years ago. I like it because of the continuity it provides. You could even have 3 representatives per constituency with the most junior being elected each time, the most senior retiring and the remaining two going "up" one place
New person -> [junior -> middle -> senior] -> retires
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system
We could have EU migration under control if we used the systems currently available. There is a 3 month limit unless you supprt yourself. Send them back if you want - the mechanism exists.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system
We could have EU migration under control if we used the systems currently available. There is a 3 month limit unless you supprt yourself. Send them back if you want - the mechanism exists.
What we need is a points based system focused on the migrants whose skills we need whether you can support yourself or not, in part to rectify the failure of the Blair government to impose transition controls on migrants from Eastern Europe from 2004 to 2011 unlike most EU nations.
After we have got EU migration under control in 10 years EFTA might be an option (with the 3 month limit for those unable to support themselves)
Yes, you posted it yesterday. Big drinker or something? Not that that's a criticism.
Since I didn't post it previously, I don't think it's me who should be checking my drinking.
As a self-professed die-hard Remainer atheist, I would tell him that wearing a funny collar and clothes does not confer wisdom, nor is there a pipeline of eternal verities coming into his skull from on high.
I was criticising him only a week ago for looking to convene a citizens assembly and dismissing anyone who favoured a No Deal Brexit, ruling it out entirely.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Can I just check - people do know he's a member of Parliament?
Yes, we have an established church, but I'd suggest to be a theological voice on issues of ethics and morals not raw politics.
To do so isn't much less unwise than for a member of the royal family to do so.
You would suggest wrongly. They are there to vote as they see fit.
It isn't actually in practice that different from having union representatives elected, and we have 263 of those in the Commons alone.
They can vote as they see fit as the Queen can refuse royal assent to anything, officially.
Well, why not? With Boris determined to dismantle the union, aren't we finished with it?
No, beyond diehard Remainers hatred of their own country unless it is in the EU (Only 46% of Scots back independence including Don't Knows even in the latest Ashcroft poll).
Though I am sure CCHQ will be saving the image for a PPB at the appropriate moment in the campaign
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
No, there's no hope.
We shall probably end up No Dealing. A US trade deal will turn out to be a chimera. And the imbalances in the UK economy will bite us hard.
A difficult 2 to 3 years will either be followed by us accepting something that looks just like the Withdrawal Agreement (so, we had a nasty recession all for nothing), or a true socialist government is elected, as the all previous problems were due to lack of government intervention.
With Swinson now beating Corbyn as preferred PM at the weekend with Survation I think the Corbyn scare is now over, No Deal Brexit or not Corbyn Labour is going nowhere
I remember hearing a PR man from Carling proudly boasting that they have a 7 day turnaround from hops and water to pouring the pint in the pub.
I think that is something they should be ashamed of not proud of.
Whatever the pros and cons of Carling is - remember it's a Brisky Yoon campaign to stop the Scottish Groat in its tracks (Tennents being a very similar beverage but brewed in Glasgow)
So remember Yoons
#Carling4Tennents4indyref2
And English comrades have their own hashtag with tennents being pretty much unavailable in England-
#Whiskey4Whisky4indyref2.
Tennants may be cooking lager but it is far and away better than Carling.
Tennents make terrible lager but they made the best ever lager advert.
Interesting to see on the previous thread that Beverley (a self-professed die hard Remainer) would accept EEA-EFTA.
I would also be willing to accept this, now, as a compromise to settle the issue. Revisit if needs be in 10-15 years time to see how it's working.
Is there still hope?
I woukd be willing to accept it in 10 years after we have got EU migration under control with a points system
That's probably the biggest blocker. But I think migration from the EU is decreasing in salience as an issue and an emergency brake would cover it.
In 10 years maybe but we have to deliver the Vote Leave campaign to replace free movement from the EU with a points system first as well as doing our own trade deals.
Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.
Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for
Comments
- it is relatively quick and easy to agree with the EU and implement. We would still need to sort out third country arrangements however. Removes a lot of uncertainty.
2. It respects the referendum result.
3. It deals with the Irish border issue.
Committing to implement rules you effectively have no say over is an issue for a country the size and ambitions of the UK however.
I think this is one of the two realistic outcomes for Brexit. I would go with it
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1168070013707636736?s=20
It turns us into second-class EU members which is stupid, but the whole Brexit project is bl**dy stupid so EEA/EFTA is a huge step forward.
Too much is made of this downside, the UK is significant enough that it will have a say in the rules and its interests taken account of, even if no longer a formal vote. That doesnt mean we get everything we want (which is the default request/expectation from many) but they wont deliberately game the rules to hurt the UK.
But a backstop followed by permanent arrangements on dealing with tariff differentials alone would be far more manageable.
Checking out - see you crazy kids later
Norway is of such a small size that its voice would be marginal either inside or out.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/efta-countries-wary-of-commons-interest-in-norway-brexit-option
So this is about finding a compromise that works now. And yes it might even require ratification in a second referendum.
Maybe he should just stick to matters theological?
Brexit: What is Common Market 2.0?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47639946
What's the difference between cat's piss and Carling?
One is a liquid that comes out of a cat's genitals.
The other is used by cats to mark their territory.
To do so isn't much less unwise than for a member of the royal family to do so.
He is basically telling them to p**s off rather than indulge them further. The meeting with Hammond will I suggest be very brief and focused entirely on confirming the intent to withdraw the conservative whip just as the election is about to be called, so that they can't claim they weren't warned and he can pass that message on to his flock.
It isn't actually in practice that different from having union representatives elected, and we have 263 of those in the Commons alone.
Gove, for all his strengths, has tunnel vision, a reluctance to listen to experts who have the temerity to disagree with him and an over-reliance on ill-informed and low-grade civil servants [i.e. Dominic Cummings in this case]who clearly run rings round him, possibly without him realising. This incidentally explains why he did OK at Justice and hasn’t bombed at environment – the quality of the workforce is a whole lot better in those departments than at Education.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/06/03/why-michael-gove-should-not-be-conservative-leader/
I do feel my judgement has been vindicated.
Just a very great pity that loser Johnson was elected instead.
I do tolerate the Lords in general, mostly because they tend to act as a brake on some of the dafter legislation the Commons occasionally dreams up, but hereditary Lords and Bishops can go jump in the canal as far as I am concerned.
The only good thing about the Archbishop of Canterbury is that he did not inherit his position, but there is nothing special about a bunch of people whose authority comes from a work of fiction fiddled with over millennia to ensure power and control. If you read the Bible, God is a total git with the manners of a brat and the self-control of Donald Trump.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7416155/Anti-Brexit-protesters-burn-British-flag-outside-Houses-Parliament.html?fbclid=IwAR2jLygr2Hd_cZlwAoQQB5JmVhs9sPyHdkogHyG0voZ8BWTAW9QbMX6afeg
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/20/how-anglicans-tipped-the-brexit-vote/
Edit - come to think of it, aren't all the Anglicans in this forum Remainers?
Do not start me on veganism - I have just opened a second front on religion. That is probably enough for one thread
Catholics also voted Leave by a smaller margin, those of other religions and the non religious voted Remain
Ask his 2 ex-wives...
New person -> [junior -> middle -> senior] -> retires
Though maybe "...Gove won't commit to abide by law..." is not quite what he wanted
He is also a very consistent liar and manipulator.
After we have got EU migration under control in 10 years EFTA might be an option (with the 3 month limit for those unable to support themselves)
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/sep/01/home-office-planning-to-end-family-reunion-for-children-after-brexit
I'm not regretting my resignation.
I am saying it's unwise to do so.
Though I am sure CCHQ will be saving the image for a PPB at the appropriate moment in the campaign
https://youtu.be/TX9h558Tz1E
Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union means we still have free movement and the EU still negotiates trade deals on our behalf and we still have to obey European courts and pay a fee to the EU, it would be Remain in all but name bar a bit more control of fisheries policy.
Which is why Boris is right to try for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop first and if not be prepared for No Deal to deliver what Leave voters really voted for