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This is my general issue with the way university expansion has gone. We have created 130+ universities that in order to become unis (rather than polys / HE facilities) have to had to add a wider range of subjects. The result a dilution at massive cost, and lots and lots of crap degrees.Freggles said:
It's good at a few niche subjects like computer aided animation and more practical things like social work iircFrancisUrquhart said:
They should ask for their money back on the business studies at least...ranked 83 out of 122.Gallowgate said:
It’s good enough for the huge, american conglomerate that I work for to use it for both engineering and business studies/management degrees. It also has a reasonably big International Student population.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's not saying much as it is ranked as one of the worst uni's in the country, albeit still higher than Sunderland.Gallowgate said:
Ironically Teesside University is one of its better current exports.
Very very few old polys have become excellent all round unis, and often in order to offer the "wider range" they have come up with all sorts of crap rather than offering say STEM.
Winchester was decent teacher training place, Coventry for practical mechanical engineering, Harper Adams for agriculture. Now all piss poor ranked unis.0 -
There's an element of truth in your first statement for sure. A lot of the difference in perspective on immigration comes from different first hand experience. So in my case, when I read people saying immigrants are terrible, lazy, unproductive etc it is just laughable and also insulting because my own experience has been 100% the opposite and you are talking about my friends and family.another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
But that is why to be objective you need to look at the data and serious empirical analysis, and the message from that is unambiguously that immigration from the EU has been good for the UK. There is almost no evidence of a negative effect on wages for instance.
If you don't look at the data, we are just swapping anecdotes and a load of small sample observations conditioned by prejudice and preconceptions. I had a great Polish builder vs you saw a Slovakian Roma begging in Rotherham town centre. We could do that all day without learning anything.0 -
The wider public is not above the lawMarqueeMark said:
The Remainers are taking a knife to a gun fight. They may have the Twittersphere with them. But they haven't got the wider public onside.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think it is nailed on. He has no majority and it is clear that parliament are going to try and find a way to block everything, from no-deal to legislation required to move forward.AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
I think the selling point is clear. Unlike the narrative over May's early GE, which was I want a big majority and I am not willing to really campaign (plus absolute stinker policies).
Team Boris pitch will be Brexit will never happen unless, which the aim of capturing the pro-Brexit supporters with assumption anti-Brexit will split among all the other parties.
If it will work or not is another matter.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
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and while we may not like it at least No Deal will have been formally voted for...Ratters said:
VONC will only occur in the event that the legislative route fails, i.e. when Parliament returns in October.CarlottaVance said:The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.
There are very good reasons for this:
1) The fact that the the prorogation cuts short the 14 day period for forming an alternative government. If they fail in those 5 days then Johnson chooses the election date (likely post-Brexit, so not worth the risk)
2) Conservative rebels are understandably more open to defying the party whip than they are voting down their own government - so legislation is easier to pass (even with the latest threats of deselection)
3) There is still time for a VONC in October if needed - and it will be clear that there's no alternative to stop no deal by that point and so a caretaker government (Corbyn or otherwise) is more likely to be agreed
I agree that the politics of this generally works in Johnson's favour in terms of coalescing the Brexit vote to his party, and he'll spin any extension as being forced on him by a "Remoaner Parliament". So he may well lose the battle but win the war. But if the Conservatives win a majority on a no deal manifesto, then so be it - they will also own the consequences.0 -
And Cobalt is a right faff to get to even with a car let alone without one.Gallowgate said:
Of course. But most of the high paying jobs (and this is high end residential) in Newcastle are not in the city centre or accessible easily by public transport. They are in out of town business parks.AndyJS said:
Sounds like an attempt to try to force people to use public transport.Gallowgate said:
Agreed. I have a lot to say on this.another_richard said:
Conversion of town centres for residential use.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well that's great. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying people shouldn't have nice public areas. I merely say two things.Gallowgate said:
Almost all of the regeneration is privately funded. Its not paid for by councils.Luckyguy1983 said:
Councils seem to do a lot of nice and expensive hard landscaping against a background of empty shops. Putting the cart before the horse it seems to me. Prosperous towns result in public improvements. The opposite is not the case. But I suppose when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.Gardenwalker said:
Quite right.Luckyguy1983 said:
Improved public spaces are great, but they don't often herald a big change in economic fortunes.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
At worst it’s displacement activity.
But local authorities don’t have the power to do much. The very least they should do is to make sure their public spaces are attractive, welcoming guests and safe. Most local authorities even fail at that.
For example, Tesco pretty much paid for the redevelopment of the entirety of Gateshead Town Centre.
Our towns and specifically our high streets need a big rethink. Rents must somehow come down, business models must change, fashionable ideas about cars and parking should be jettisoned.
Secondly that large scale regeneration projects should, if they can, be sufficiently remarkable/unusual that they themselves can disrupt existing patterns of visitor behaviour and spend.
They recently started building a rather lovely new residential skyscraper in Newcastle City Centre with no car parking provision! It’s insane.
We need medium density with proper underground car parking otherwise it’s pointless. They’ve known this in Europe for 100 years.1 -
I’m about to go to a former poly after doing my original degree at a redbrick so I will let you know what I think of the differences.FrancisUrquhart said:
This is my general issue with the way university expansion has gone. We have created 130+ universities that in order to become unis (rather than polys / HE facilities) have to had to add a wider range of subjects. The result a dilution at massive cost, and lots and lots of crap degrees.Freggles said:
It's good at a few niche subjects like computer aided animation and more practical things like social work iircFrancisUrquhart said:
They should ask for their money back on the business studies at least...ranked 83 out of 122.Gallowgate said:
It’s good enough for the huge, american conglomerate that I work for to use it for both engineering and business studies/management degrees. It also has a reasonably big International Student population.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's not saying much as it is ranked as one of the worst uni's in the country, albeit still higher than Sunderland.Gallowgate said:
Ironically Teesside University is one of its better current exports.
Very very few old polys have become excellent all round unis.
(Newcastle University and Northumbria University)0 -
There is evidence of immigration impacting low wages - I'll have to dig out the survey.OnlyLivingBoy said:
There's an element of truth in your first statement for sure. A lot of the difference in perspective on immigration comes from different first hand experience. So in my case, when I read people saying immigrants are terrible, lazy, unproductive etc it is just laughable and also insulting because my own experience has been 100% the opposite and you are talking about my friends and family.another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
But that is why to be objective you need to look at the data and serious empirical analysis, and the message from that is unambiguously that immigration from the EU has been good for the UK. There is almost no evidence of a negative effect on wages for instance.
If you don't look at the data, we are just swapping anecdotes and a load of small sample observations conditioned by prejudice and preconceptions. I had a great Polish builder vs you saw a Slovakian Roma begging in Rotherham town centre. We could do that all day without learning anything.
The problem is that, like a lot of other things, the immigration factor is hidden by other factors such as minimum wage hikes which has resulted in pushing more and more jobs into the minimum wage band.0 -
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
I thought Johnson was aiming to unify the country, or was that just another of his endless lies? You don't unify the country by opting for a type of Brexit that the leave campaigns themselves ruled out. Any short term political gain will be a pyrrhic victory.MarqueeMark said:
He will, when it comes down to "us" or "them"....eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.0 -
I don’t see the problem there. Anyone buying a flat here will know upfront that there is no parking. And given it is in a major city centre, public transport is a viable option.AndyJS said:
Sounds like an attempt to try to force people to use public transport.Gallowgate said:
Agreed. I have a lot to say on this.another_richard said:
Conversion of town centres for residential use.Luckyguy1983 said:
Well that's great. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying people shouldn't have nice public areas. I merely say two things.Gallowgate said:
Almost all of the regeneration is privately funded. Its not paid for by councils.Luckyguy1983 said:
Councils seem to do a lot of nice and expensive hard landscaping against a background of empty shops. Putting the cart before the horse it seems to me. Prosperous towns result in public improvements. The opposite is not the case. But I suppose when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.Gardenwalker said:
Quite right.Luckyguy1983 said:
Improved public spaces are great, but they don't often herald a big change in economic fortunes.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
At worst it’s displacement activity.
But local authorities don’t have the power to do much. The very least they should do is to make sure their public spaces are attractive, welcoming guests and safe. Most local authorities even fail at that.
For example, Tesco pretty much paid for the redevelopment of the entirety of Gateshead Town Centre.
Our towns and specifically our high streets need a big rethink. Rents must somehow come down, business models must change, fashionable ideas about cars and parking should be jettisoned.
Secondly that large scale regeneration projects should, if they can, be sufficiently remarkable/unusual that they themselves can disrupt existing patterns of visitor behaviour and spend.
They recently started building a rather lovely new residential skyscraper in Newcastle City Centre with no car parking provision! It’s insane.
We need medium density with proper underground car parking otherwise it’s pointless. They’ve known this in Europe for 100 years.
Car parks are an incredibly inefficient use of valuable space, especially in city centres - it’s absolutely right to discourage them - not to mention all the pollution and traffic cars cause.0 -
Oh the City University of Newcastle upon Tyne (as it was almost called).Gallowgate said:
I’m about to go to a former poly after doing my original degree at a redbrick so I will let you know what I think of the differences.FrancisUrquhart said:
This is my general issue with the way university expansion has gone. We have created 130+ universities that in order to become unis (rather than polys / HE facilities) have to had to add a wider range of subjects. The result a dilution at massive cost, and lots and lots of crap degrees.Freggles said:
It's good at a few niche subjects like computer aided animation and more practical things like social work iircFrancisUrquhart said:
They should ask for their money back on the business studies at least...ranked 83 out of 122.Gallowgate said:
It’s good enough for the huge, american conglomerate that I work for to use it for both engineering and business studies/management degrees. It also has a reasonably big International Student population.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's not saying much as it is ranked as one of the worst uni's in the country, albeit still higher than Sunderland.Gallowgate said:
Ironically Teesside University is one of its better current exports.
Very very few old polys have become excellent all round unis.
(Newcastle University and Northumbria University)
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Bollocks to that!geoffw said:
It's not a GONUBig_G_NorthWales said:On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers
It's a GONAD (Government Of NAtional Disunity).0 -
But the withdrawal agreement without the backstop isn't an option - it's just a unicorn in the same way my children used to want ice cream every meal.HYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
Opinion polls don’t confer moral authority on anybody they are to help people bet more effectively or to provide debating topics on political discussion forums.HYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
So if that happened and BJ refused to ask for an extension could he be arrested?CarlottaVance said:
The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.Ratters said:
It won't be a motion extending. It will be an Act of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think it is nailed on. He has no majority and it is clear that parliament are going to try and find a way to block everything, from no-deal to legislation required to move forward.AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
I think the selling point is clear. Unlike the narrative over May's early GE, which was I want a big majority and I am not willing to really campaign (plus absolute stinker policies).
Team Boris pitch will be Brexit will never happen unless, which the aim of capturing the pro-Brexit supporters with assumption anti-Brexit will split among all the other parties.
If it will work or not is another matter.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
If worded tightly enough, it means Johnson would have to break the law in order to avoid an extension. I understand there are usually consequences for breaking the law.0 -
It’s the only one the House has voted FOR. What’s the point of an extension if the only thing they’ll agree isn’t on the table?eek said:
But the withdrawal agreement without the backstop isn't an option - it's just a unicornHYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
'Thompson'HYUFD said:
Not at all, Thompson just making the sensible point the main 3 separate pro Union parties should fight general elections not 1single pro Union one, just as the main pro Remain and anti hard Brexit parties will fight the next general election separately not a 1 pro Remain partyTheuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=20
'sensible point'
That BJ koolaid is powerful stuff.
Regardless of Thompson's point, the fact is that other elected members of his party are making diametrically opposed points involving dissolution of his sub branch of said party.
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Moral support would have expressed it better.nichomar said:
Opinion polls don’t confer moral authority on anybody they are to help people bet more effectively or to provide debating topics on political discussion forums.HYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll
0 -
Yes, and also held in contempt of Parliament which would mean he could be banned from the Commonstimmo said:
So if that happened and BJ refused to ask for an extension could he be arrested?CarlottaVance said:
The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.Ratters said:
It won't be a motion extending. It will be an Act of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think it is nailed on. He has no majority and it is clear that parliament are going to try and find a way to block everything, from no-deal to legislation required to move forward.AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
I think the selling point is clear. Unlike the narrative over May's early GE, which was I want a big majority and I am not willing to really campaign (plus absolute stinker policies).
Team Boris pitch will be Brexit will never happen unless, which the aim of capturing the pro-Brexit supporters with assumption anti-Brexit will split among all the other parties.
If it will work or not is another matter.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
If worded tightly enough, it means Johnson would have to break the law in order to avoid an extension. I understand there are usually consequences for breaking the law.
0 -
Teesside needs to be selected to be the country's first decarbonised industrial cluster. Carbon capture and storage, low carbon hydrogen, decarbonised industrial production, CO2 reuse. Billions of investment.Gardenwalker said:
Short of a gold rush, TINA for the Middlesbroughs.another_richard said:
And Durham is a big tourism centre as well.Gallowgate said:
Do you know anything about the North East? Newcastle and Durham are far from just red brick universities and posho restaurants. In fact Newcastle has only 1 Michelin Star restaurant.another_richard said:
Real productive growth in what ?Gardenwalker said:
Sure.another_richard said:
How many 'commuter resorts' do you think Newcastle needs ?Gardenwalker said:
Hartlepool is screwed, under pretty much any economic dispensation outside full-bodied Communism, and probably even then.Dura_Ace said:
"It's a coastal town they forgot to close down," as Morrissey said/sang.CarlottaVance said:The NYT visits Roger's favourite town:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/30/world/europe/uk-life-expectancy.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
It has no reason to exist anymore; and like many towns in the UK it is simply propped up via social spending to support a lumpen proletariat.
As unlikely as it sounds, It should concentrate on being a commuter resort for Newcastle, which is where real productivity may feasibly be developed.
Brexit fucks even that idea, given the outsized hit expected to the North East economy.
Not that Newcastle itself lacks for run down shithole estates.
It’s not ideal.
The North East is the poorest region in England, I think.
But Newcastle (and Durham) are the only two feasible hubs for real productive growth.
Red brick universities and posho restaurants perhaps ?
We need an economy which allows people to contribute and create wealth throughout the socioeconomic scale.
Greater Newcastle and Greater Durham have a huge chunk of all the area's manufacturing, R&D, warehousing and shopping infrastructure as well as all of the area's art, culture and music scene.
But how much can any of that be expanded and is it even a good idea to concentrate the regions economic activity even more, to turn all the other places into satellite towns and have even more people commute ?
But we’re not actually even doing that. We’re just leaving it to rot.
The region has a Tory mayor, which must count for something.1 -
It's called internal debate, I realise that's not a familiar concept in SNP circles.Theuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=200 -
Why bother - he can’t be compelled to accept any extension offer from the EU.timmo said:
So if that happened and BJ refused to ask for an extension could he be arrested?CarlottaVance said:
The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.Ratters said:
It won't be a motion extending. It will be an Act of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think it is nailed on. He has no majority and it is clear that parliament are going to try and find a way to block everything, from no-deal to legislation required to move forward.AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
I think the selling point is clear. Unlike the narrative over May's early GE, which was I want a big majority and I am not willing to really campaign (plus absolute stinker policies).
Team Boris pitch will be Brexit will never happen unless, which the aim of capturing the pro-Brexit supporters with assumption anti-Brexit will split among all the other parties.
If it will work or not is another matter.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
If worded tightly enough, it means Johnson would have to break the law in order to avoid an extension. I understand there are usually consequences for breaking the law.
Remainers simply wasting time.0 -
He voted against Brexit! Keep up!MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.0 -
It does look like the "rebels" will try and introduce legislation under SO24.
Assuming the speaker allows it, instead of trying to make BoZo extend, why not repeal the FTPA?
Then VoNC him without all the 14 day, BoZo picks the date nonsense...0 -
Mr. T, Pyrrhus was far more capable than the PM.0
-
Then a recall petition such funnot_on_fire said:
Yes, and also held in contempt of Parliament which would mean he could be banned from the Commonstimmo said:
So if that happened and BJ refused to ask for an extension could he be arrested?CarlottaVance said:
The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.Ratters said:
It won't be a motion extending. It will be an Act of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think it is nailed on. He has no majority and it is clear that parliament are going to try and find a way to block everything, from no-deal to legislation required to move forward.AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
I think the selling point is clear. Unlike the narrative over May's early GE, which was I want a big majority and I am not willing to really campaign (plus absolute stinker policies).
Team Boris pitch will be Brexit will never happen unless, which the aim of capturing the pro-Brexit supporters with assumption anti-Brexit will split among all the other parties.
If it will work or not is another matter.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
If worded tightly enough, it means Johnson would have to break the law in order to avoid an extension. I understand there are usually consequences for breaking the law.0 -
Internal debate through the medium of newspaper articles & twitter? A novel interpretation.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's called internal debate, I realise that's not a familiar concept in SNP circles.Theuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=200 -
PM hosting whips at Chequers tonight
0 -
Internal debate in the SNP is when Pete knocks on the bedroom wall and asks Nicola and her friend to keep the noise down.Theuniondivvie said:
Internal debate through the medium of newspaper articles & twitter? A novel interpretation.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's called internal debate, I realise that's not a familiar concept in SNP circles.Theuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=200 -
And we lost an iconic landmark. Fascists.Gallowgate said:
Almost all of the regeneration is privately funded. Its not paid for by councils.Luckyguy1983 said:
Councils seem to do a lot of nice and expensive hard landscaping against a background of empty shops. Putting the cart before the horse it seems to me. Prosperous towns result in public improvements. The opposite is not the case. But I suppose when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.Gardenwalker said:
Quite right.Luckyguy1983 said:
Improved public spaces are great, but they don't often herald a big change in economic fortunes.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
At worst it’s displacement activity.
But local authorities don’t have the power to do much. The very least they should do is to make sure their public spaces are attractive, welcoming guests and safe. Most local authorities even fail at that.
For example, Tesco pretty much paid for the redevelopment of the entirety of Gateshead Town Centre.0 -
Do as I say or you’re deselected... some debate.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's called internal debate, I realise that's not a familiar concept in SNP circles.Theuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=200 -
He's going to unify the country against those MPs voting to block Brexit.OllyT said:
I thought Johnson was aiming to unify the country, or was that just another of his endless lies? You don't unify the country by opting for a type of Brexit that the leave campaigns themselves ruled out. Any short term political gain will be a pyrrhic victory.MarqueeMark said:
He will, when it comes down to "us" or "them"....eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
Just watch.....0 -
F1: Sainz and Giovinazzi have more changes and ensuing penalties and Kubica's starting from the pit lane.0
-
Why not give someone other than the PM (e.g. the Speaker) the right to negotiate the extension? (Bercow would love that)Scott_P said:It does look like the "rebels" will try and introduce legislation under SO24.
Assuming the speaker allows it, instead of trying to make BoZo extend, why not repeal the FTPA?
Then VoNC him without all the 14 day, BoZo picks the date nonsense...
0 -
Right... so I only have to abide by the law if I like the legislation?Scott_P said:0 -
They do given the only reason diehard Remainers refuse to respect the democratic Leave vote is apparently polling evidence there is no longer a mandate to deliver Brexitnichomar said:
Opinion polls don’t confer moral authority on anybody they are to help people bet more effectively or to provide debating topics on political discussion forums.HYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
That's why people prefer to live along the A1 corridor!Gallowgate said:
You would go down the A19 to get to Teesside!another_richard said:
Well I can't talk about Teeside beyond generalities but if you're looking to concentrate economic activity in the Newcastle and Durham areas then where are the commuters going to prefer to live ?Gardenwalker said:
Short of a gold rush, TINA for the Middlesbroughs.another_richard said:
And Durham is a big tourism centre as well.Gallowgate said:
Do you know anything about the North East? Newcastle and Durham are far from just red brick universities and posho restaurants. In fact Newcastle has only 1 Michelin Star restaurant.another_richard said:
Real productive growth in what ?Gardenwalker said:
Sure.another_richard said:
How many 'commuter resorts' do you think Newcastle needs ?
Not that Newcastle itself lacks for run down shithole estates.
It’s not ideal.
The North East is the poorest region in England, I think.
But Newcastle (and Durham) are the only two feasible hubs for real productive growth.
Red brick universities and posho restaurants perhaps ?
We need an economy which allows people to contribute and create wealth throughout the socioeconomic scale.
Greater Newcastle and Greater Durham have a huge chunk of all the area's manufacturing, R&D, warehousing and shopping infrastructure as well as all of the area's art, culture and music scene.
But how much can any of that be expanded and is it even a good idea to concentrate the regions economic activity even more, to turn all the other places into satellite towns and have even more people commute ?
But we’re not actually even doing that. We’re just leaving it to rot.
In a deprived part of Middlesbrough or in a nice new housing development along the A1 ?
And its no use telling the people who do live in the deprived parts of Middlesbrough to commute to Newcastle or Durham because they don't have the skillset to get the good jobs while the lower paid jobs don't pay enough to make the commute worthwhile.0 -
-
It is and Macron and Merkel have not ruled it out.eek said:
But the withdrawal agreement without the backstop isn't an option - it's just a unicorn in the same way my children used to want ice cream every meal.HYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll
Plus given only 40% back Revoke and Remain in the latest Survation it is the only Brexit solution with majority support from both the voters and as the Brady amendment showed the Commons0 -
We are watching.MarqueeMark said:He's going to unify the country against those MPs voting to block Brexit.
Just watch.....
The Unified country was all over TV yesterday protesting against BoZo...0 -
It's called "Taking Back Control"...Benpointer said:Right... so I only have to abide by the law if I like the legislation?
0 -
I'm sure there's some Remainers would be happy to require Govt. to accept whatever terms the EU comes back with. But not enough to get that law passed.TGOHF said:
Why bother - he can’t be compelled to accept any extension offer from the EU.timmo said:
So if that happened and BJ refused to ask for an extension could he be arrested?CarlottaVance said:
The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.Ratters said:
It won't be a motion extending. It will be an Act of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
I think it is nailed on. He has no majority and it is clear that parliament are going to try and find a way to block everything, from no-deal to legislation required to move forward.AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
I think the selling point is clear. Unlike the narrative over May's early GE, which was I want a big majority and I am not willing to really campaign (plus absolute stinker policies).
Team Boris pitch will be Brexit will never happen unless, which the aim of capturing the pro-Brexit supporters with assumption anti-Brexit will split among all the other parties.
If it will work or not is another matter.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
If worded tightly enough, it means Johnson would have to break the law in order to avoid an extension. I understand there are usually consequences for breaking the law.
Remainers simply wasting time.
0 -
Oh yeah, such numbers of them....Scott_P said:
We are watching.MarqueeMark said:He's going to unify the country against those MPs voting to block Brexit.
Just watch.....
The Unified country was all over TV yesterday protesting against BoZo...
....versus 17.4m.0 -
A majority of voters voted for Brexit, a majority have not voted for CorbynScott_P said:0 -
British lawyer for Albanian gangsters is shot three times in the head in execution-style killing after losing a string of high-profile mob cases
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7415279/British-lawyer-Albanian-gangsters-shot-three-times-head-losing-string-cases.html0 -
No he didn't, he voted to invoke Article 50 and he voted against extending Article 50. Those are the votes on Brexit we've had that passed to get us where we are so far.noneoftheabove said:
He voted against Brexit! Keep up!MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.0 -
But you voted REMAIN!HYUFD said:
They do given the only reason diehard Remainers0 -
Hopes of a ‘Scottish DUP’ at Westminster faded as Ruth Davidson stayed away from formal meetings
Efforts to create a distinct Scottish group were also undermined by government whips, who feared the MPs’ intentions. A request for the 12 backbench Scottish Tories to have adjacent offices was turned down, and they were assigned to separate parts of the parliamentary estate. “I thought it was silly,” a senior Scottish Tory figure at Westminster says, but a Downing Street source admitted there was “concern” about how the group would behave.
Promotions to jobs as parliamentary aides were also used as a means to undermine Scottish Tory unity, members of the group claim. “The whips were very clever in picking off those who were vulnerable, to win their loyalty,” one MP says. “You can see by who it was that got promoted.”
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/hopes-of-a-scottish-dup-at-westminster-faded-as-ruth-davidson-stayed-away-from-formal-meetings-1-49950610 -
https://mobile.twitter.com/OptoSean/status/1167926313484607488
Why do remainers always get away with acting like this?0 -
I see Woke Are The People didn't last long.TGOHF said:
Internal debate in the SNP is when Pete knocks on the bedroom wall and asks Nicola and her friend to keep the noise down.Theuniondivvie said:
Internal debate through the medium of newspaper articles & twitter? A novel interpretation.Luckyguy1983 said:
It's called internal debate, I realise that's not a familiar concept in SNP circles.Theuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=200 -
Since we are talking about the NE:another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.Gardenwalker said:
We are (were) incredibly lucky to import the most educated and hardest working Europeans and, indeed, what a contrast to our own underclass where, as you note, Britain as a very long tail.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.another_richard said:
And being a high paying country with a non-contributory welfare system means we are importing even more such people.Foxy said:
Historically, a lot of these post industrial towns would have become ghost towns, unless they reinvented themselves with new industries.Gardenwalker said:
I have a slight personal obsession with economic geography.eek said:
When I was walking around Redcar last Friday night I really was thinking on the 45 minute drive home what on earth you could do there.
There seems almost a conspiracy to keep
Neither left nor right have a fucking clue what to do about the DOZENS of Hartlepools around the country.
It’s a miserable waste of human capital, ie people’s LIVES.
The combination of low value jobs, welfare dependency, obesity, smoking and drugs is why Hartlepool and similar towns have reducing prospects and life expectancy.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
However I guess if you are a member of said underclass, you don’t see that, you see the gypsies setting up encampment in the local park, and the troubling preponderance of underage sex rings down the local taxi rank.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
See the little faggot with the earring and the make up
Yeah buddy that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire
We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TV's
0 -
Mr Dancer, forgot to mention: nice thread yesterday!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. T, Pyrrhus was far more capable than the PM.
0 -
Why would the Opposition and Tory rebels be inclined to support that?Scott_P said:It does look like the "rebels" will try and introduce legislation under SO24.
Assuming the speaker allows it, instead of trying to make BoZo extend, why not repeal the FTPA?
Then VoNC him without all the 14 day, BoZo picks the date nonsense...0 -
How many backed No DealHYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
So what, on that basis if a party won an election and I voted against that party I would refuse to recognise that election result and that Government, exactly as diehard Remainers refuse to recognise the Leave vote of 2016Sunil_Prasannan said:
But you voted REMAIN!HYUFD said:
They do given the only reason diehard Remainers0 -
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.0 -
That did not have a majority either but then further extension and revoke also failed to get a majority, as I said the only majority was for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming forbigjohnowls said:
How many backed No DealHYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll0 -
Part of the problem was working class culture, which fetishised collectivism and strength, and was often anti education.*another_richard said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
That culture, particularly the latter, still persists in our schools.
It's inevitably difficult for people to keep up in a knowledge economy if they don't want to learn.
*- I am aware of the history of working class self-improvement through the Trades Union movement, libraries, the origin of the Technical Institutes etc, but that seems to have withered, or the people who "self-improved" now are middle class.1 -
But you voted REMAIN, making you a Diehard Remainer!HYUFD said:
So what, on that basis if a party won an election and I voted against that party I would refuse to recognise that election result and that Government, exactly as diehard Remainers refuse to recognise the Leave vote of 2016Sunil_Prasannan said:
But you voted REMAIN!HYUFD said:
They do given the only reason diehard Remainers0 -
RE: The thread header, is there a strong sense anyone serious will run against Trump for the nomination? Feels late to me and I’ve seen nothing. But I’m not American and it’s the sort of thing that wouldn’t be obvious here.0
-
Apart from this literally single piece of bullshit you plucked from Twitter, Remainers don’t in general act like this and don’t get away with it.nunuone said:https://mobile.twitter.com/OptoSean/status/1167926313484607488
Why do remainers always get away with acting like this?0 -
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade. It's not all of them but for those with lower paying skillsets it's not much different from working 35+ hours a week.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.0 -
A separation of the Tory party in Scotland is probably a necessary condition now of maintaining the Union.StuartDickson said:Hopes of a ‘Scottish DUP’ at Westminster faded as Ruth Davidson stayed away from formal meetings
Efforts to create a distinct Scottish group were also undermined by government whips, who feared the MPs’ intentions. A request for the 12 backbench Scottish Tories to have adjacent offices was turned down, and they were assigned to separate parts of the parliamentary estate. “I thought it was silly,” a senior Scottish Tory figure at Westminster says, but a Downing Street source admitted there was “concern” about how the group would behave.
Promotions to jobs as parliamentary aides were also used as a means to undermine Scottish Tory unity, members of the group claim. “The whips were very clever in picking off those who were vulnerable, to win their loyalty,” one MP says. “You can see by who it was that got promoted.”
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/hopes-of-a-scottish-dup-at-westminster-faded-as-ruth-davidson-stayed-away-from-formal-meetings-1-4995061
Possibly Labour too.0 -
Twitter is also full of Brexit frothers. Its a myth to suggest its just a left wing echo chamber.Gardenwalker said:
Apart from this literally single piece of bullshit you plucked from Twitter, Remainers don’t in general act like this and don’t get away with it.nunuone said:https://mobile.twitter.com/OptoSean/status/1167926313484607488
Why do remainers always get away with acting like this?0 -
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.0 -
Also , Mr Touchy Feely is not exactly well endowed in the brain department is he. He would be in line to win " Best Dud of the Invisible 13 " title.Theuniondivvie said:
'Thompson'HYUFD said:
Not at all, Thompson just making the sensible point the main 3 separate pro Union parties should fight general elections not 1single pro Union one, just as the main pro Remain and anti hard Brexit parties will fight the next general election separately not a 1 pro Remain partyTheuniondivvie said:Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of lads.
#ToryCivilWar
https://twitter.com/RobertTyreBute/status/1168102419290578945?s=20
'sensible point'
That BJ koolaid is powerful stuff.
Regardless of Thompson's point, the fact is that other elected members of his party are making diametrically opposed points involving dissolution of his sub branch of said party.0 -
What was silly was Downing Street having the slightest concern about any problems from the tame twelve.StuartDickson said:Hopes of a ‘Scottish DUP’ at Westminster faded as Ruth Davidson stayed away from formal meetings
Efforts to create a distinct Scottish group were also undermined by government whips, who feared the MPs’ intentions. A request for the 12 backbench Scottish Tories to have adjacent offices was turned down, and they were assigned to separate parts of the parliamentary estate. “I thought it was silly,” a senior Scottish Tory figure at Westminster says, but a Downing Street source admitted there was “concern” about how the group would behave.
Promotions to jobs as parliamentary aides were also used as a means to undermine Scottish Tory unity, members of the group claim. “The whips were very clever in picking off those who were vulnerable, to win their loyalty,” one MP says. “You can see by who it was that got promoted.”
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/hopes-of-a-scottish-dup-at-westminster-faded-as-ruth-davidson-stayed-away-from-formal-meetings-1-4995061
Party (Con) & country (UK) over country (Scotland) every single fcuking time.
0 -
So are you saying the working poor can be the next Mark Knopfler if they tried a bit harder ?Gardenwalker said:
Since we are talking about the NE:another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.Gardenwalker said:
We are (were) incredibly lucky to import the most educated and hardest working Europeans and, indeed, what a contrast to our own underclass where, as you note, Britain as a very long tail.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.another_richard said:
And being a high paying country with a non-contributory welfare system means we are importing even more such people.Foxy said:
Historically, a lot of these post industrial towns would have become ghost towns, unless they reinvented themselves with new industries.
The combination of low value jobs, welfare dependency, obesity, smoking and drugs is why Hartlepool and similar towns have reducing prospects and life expectancy.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
However I guess if you are a member of said underclass, you don’t see that, you see the gypsies setting up encampment in the local park, and the troubling preponderance of underage sex rings down the local taxi rank.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
See the little faggot with the earring and the make up
Yeah buddy that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire
We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TV's
I suspect they've already realised that music or football might be a way of making millions.
But in reality its a lot less likely than them getting a nice upper-middle class career.0 -
Thanks, Dr. Prasannan
0 -
The Survation says 18% want No DealHYUFD said:
That did not have a majority either but then further extension and revoke also failed to get a majority, as I said the only majority was for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming forbigjohnowls said:
How many backed No DealHYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll
Wake up HYUFD0 -
You can’t reason with extremists @bigjohnowls. You should know.bigjohnowls said:
The Survation says 18% want No DealHYUFD said:
That did not have a majority either but then further extension and revoke also failed to get a majority, as I said the only majority was for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop, exactly as Boris is aiming forbigjohnowls said:
How many backed No DealHYUFD said:
Corbyn doesn't have the moral authority for further extension which voters opposed 47% to 41% with Survation yesterday.eek said:
Boris doesn't have the moral authority for No Deal as all Leave campaigning groups ruled out No Deal...MarqueeMark said:
The House refuses to act on a referendum passed by the voters.Peter_the_Punter said:
The Government refuses to act on a motion passed by the House? Wow!CarlottaVance said:
They pass a motion asking the govt to extend. The govt refuses. Their only remaining option is to VONC the government. Unless they have a PM who can command the house GE Oct 31.Peter_the_Punter said:
Control of the Order Paper? They have time, even if the EU doesn't unilaterally extend.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
Is this how A Very British Coup begins?
Boris has the moral authority.
52% of voters back the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical alternative as Boris wants in the same poll
Wake up HYUFD0 -
Sting sang the backing vocals (eg. "I want my MTV!"):another_richard said:
So are you saying the working poor can be the next Mark Knopfler if they tried a bit harder ?Gardenwalker said:
Since we are talking about the NE:another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.Gardenwalker said:
We are (were) incredibly lucky to import the most educated and hardest working Europeans and, indeed, what a contrast to our own underclass where, as you note, Britain as a very long tail.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.another_richard said:
And being a high paying country with a non-contributory welfare system means we are importing even more such people.Foxy said:
Historically, a lot of these post industrial towns would have become ghost towns, unless they reinvented themselves with new industries.
The combination of low value jobs, welfare dependency, obesity, smoking and drugs is why Hartlepool and similar towns have reducing prospects and life expectancy.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
However I guess if you are a member of said underclass, you don’t see that, you see the gypsies setting up encampment in the local park, and the troubling preponderance of underage sex rings down the local taxi rank.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
See the little faggot with the earring and the make up
Yeah buddy that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire
We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TV's
I suspect they've already realised that music or football might be a way of making millions.
But in reality its a lot less likely than them getting a nice upper-middle class career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTP2RUD_cL00 -
on what basis could he be arrested? Breaking a law is not automatically a criminal offence, thank goodness, and the sanction for breaking are mentioned in it so what sanctions will the House be able to agree on? I think it would be outrageous but like much in the debate in the UK it is all getting a bit fraught and out of proportion.not_on_fire said:
Yes, and also held in contempt of Parliament which would mean he could be banned from the Commonstimmo said:
So if that happened and BJ refused to ask for an extension could he be arrested?CarlottaVance said:
The immediate option open to the house is to VONC. Meanwhile Boris will be all over the TV saying “look how they’re trying to sabotage getting a deal” and “ Ill ask for an extension if they drop the backstop”.Ratters said:
It won't be a motion extending. It will be an Act of Parliament.CarlottaVance said:
The house passes a motion on extending. Boris refuses to implement it. What’s the house going to do?eek said:
What does how long would Boris last have to do with the opposition voting for a general election?CarlottaVance said:
So he sits tight until they VONC him. How long do you think he’d last if he agreed to an extension beyond Oct 31?eek said:
But an election isn't in Boris's control - he needs to get Parliament to agree to one and their ideal conditions for an election are the exact opposite of his.FrancisUrquhart said:
snip..AndyJS said:Johnson should go for the early election option in my opinion. It'll make the other parties look less keen on democracy than they claim if they refuse it.
Heck Boris going and JRM or another nutjob becoming Tory leader would do the opposition wonders...
If worded tightly enough, it means Johnson would have to break the law in order to avoid an extension. I understand there are usually consequences for breaking the law.
Even if a new law is passed, requiring Johnson to seek an extension and even if it specified the wording of the request and also mandated accepting any terms for an extension he could get round it. Such a law would itself of course be an outrage and constitution breaching but that ship sailed long ago. Opponents of the government need to remove it if they can - it is their only play.0 -
Anecdotes show snap-shots of reality. It's not that I don't think immigration isn't a positive - in a lot of cases it really is but there are exceptions to that.Gardenwalker said:
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.0 -
Do you have that data ?Gardenwalker said:
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.
The most recent ONS data gives unemployment at 3.7% UK nationals, 3.5% EU nationals and 7.0% non-EU nationals.0 -
Morecambe has undergone a huge redevelopment over recent years and on Sunny week-ends the place is packed out.Recidivist said:
I think you are totally wrong there. I have business in Lancaster from time to time and always stay in a nice bnb in Morecombe. That's a town that has seen better days, but it remains attractive because public money has been spent on the seafront. So visitors, even fleeting ones like me, still turn up and spend money. If it went to wrack and ruin I'd find somewhere else to spend my travelling expenses.Luckyguy1983 said:
Councils seem to do a lot of nice and expensive hard landscaping against a background of empty shops. Putting the cart before the horse it seems to me. Prosperous towns result in public improvements. The opposite is not the case. But I suppose when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.Gardenwalker said:
Quite right.Luckyguy1983 said:
Improved public spaces are great, but they don't often herald a big change in economic fortunes.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
At worst it’s displacement activity.
But local authorities don’t have the power to do much. The very least they should do is to make sure their public spaces are attractive, welcoming guests and safe. Most local authorities even fail at that.
The sea wall has been rebuilt,Midland Hotel re-opened, tatty funfair gone, Eric statue attracts thousands etc.
OK the West end is grim, but the Bare end and Happy mount park are very good, especially as Blobby land was kicked out of the park.0 -
I did the train to Heyshamjayfdee said:
Morecambe has undergone a huge redevelopment over recent years and on Sunny week-ends the place is packed out.Recidivist said:
I think you are totally wrong there. I have business in Lancaster from time to time and always stay in a nice bnb in Morecombe. That's a town that has seen better days, but it remains attractive because public money has been spent on the seafront. So visitors, even fleeting ones like me, still turn up and spend money. If it went to wrack and ruin I'd find somewhere else to spend my travelling expenses.Luckyguy1983 said:
Councils seem to do a lot of nice and expensive hard landscaping against a background of empty shops. Putting the cart before the horse it seems to me. Prosperous towns result in public improvements. The opposite is not the case. But I suppose when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.Gardenwalker said:
Quite right.Luckyguy1983 said:
Improved public spaces are great, but they don't often herald a big change in economic fortunes.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
At worst it’s displacement activity.
But local authorities don’t have the power to do much. The very least they should do is to make sure their public spaces are attractive, welcoming guests and safe. Most local authorities even fail at that.
The sea wall has been rebuilt,Midland Hotel re-opened, tatty funfair gone, Eric statue attracts thousands etc.
OK the West end is grim, but the Bare end and Happy mount park are very good, especially as Blobby land was kicked out of the park. 0 -
It’s got a fantastic collection of public art. They should make more of itGallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.1 -
No, I was riffing off your reference to the “non-working rich” by quoting Mark Knopfler (adopting a working class voice) on “Money for Nothing”.another_richard said:
So are you saying the working poor can be the next Mark Knopfler if they tried a bit harder ?Gardenwalker said:
Since we are talking about the NE:another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.Gardenwalker said:
We are (were) incredibly lucky to import the most educated and hardest working Europeans and, indeed, what a contrast to our own underclass where, as you note, Britain as a very long tail.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.another_richard said:
And being a high paying country with a non-contributory welfare system means we are importing even more such people.Foxy said:
Historically, a lot of these post industrial towns would have become ghost towns, unless they reinvented themselves with new industries.
The combination of low value jobs, welfare dependency, obesity, smoking and drugs is why Hartlepool and similar towns have reducing prospects and life expectancy.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
However I guess if you are a member of said underclass, you don’t see that, you see the gypsies setting up encampment in the local park, and the troubling preponderance of underage sex rings down the local taxi rank.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
See the little faggot with the earring and the make up
Yeah buddy that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire
We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TV's
I suspect they've already realised that music or football might be a way of making millions.
But in reality its a lot less likely than them getting a nice upper-middle class career.0 -
Were you the only person on board.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I did the train to Heyshamjayfdee said:
Morecambe has undergone a huge redevelopment over recent years and on Sunny week-ends the place is packed out.Recidivist said:
I think you are totally wrong there. I have business in Lancaster from time to time and always stay in a nice bnb in Morecombe. That's a town that has seen better days, but it remains attractive because public money has been spent on the seafront. So visitors, even fleeting ones like me, still turn up and spend money. If it went to wrack and ruin I'd find somewhere else to spend my travelling expenses.Luckyguy1983 said:
Councils seem to do a lot of nice and expensive hard landscaping against a background of empty shops. Putting the cart before the horse it seems to me. Prosperous towns result in public improvements. The opposite is not the case. But I suppose when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.Gardenwalker said:
Quite right.Luckyguy1983 said:
Improved public spaces are great, but they don't often herald a big change in economic fortunes.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
At worst it’s displacement activity.
But local authorities don’t have the power to do much. The very least they should do is to make sure their public spaces are attractive, welcoming guests and safe. Most local authorities even fail at that.
The sea wall has been rebuilt,Midland Hotel re-opened, tatty funfair gone, Eric statue attracts thousands etc.
OK the West end is grim, but the Bare end and Happy mount park are very good, especially as Blobby land was kicked out of the park.0 -
Given that it is U.K. foreign policy that we are leaving the EU in 2 months wouldn’t the flights just be a waste of public money?malcolmg said:
They have got rid of majority of devolution , it is whatever you want to term it , for me it is dictatorship/coup/whatever.kle4 said:
Its shitty behaviour not a coup, it just makes it easy for BoJo and co to dismiss accusations by calling it so. Those obsessed with calling it a coup are helping Johnson get off the hook. Congratulations for helping him.malcolmg said:I see the coup is progressing unchecked.
SCOTTISH civil servants are furious after Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay ruled they would no longer go to meetings in Brussels from next week to discuss fishing, agriculture and other devolved issues, The National has learnt.
Barclay made the decision without consulting or informing the Scottish Government, leaving its officials learning of the development through press reports, according to Edinburgh insiders.0 -
I was talking about EU migration.another_richard said:
Do you have that data ?Gardenwalker said:
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.
The most recent ONS data gives unemployment at 3.7% UK nationals, 3.5% EU nationals and 7.0% non-EU nationals.
Those non-EU rates surprise me, but one imagines if you drill into the data the issue is overwhelmingly immigrants from poorer Muslim communities, and Somalis.
Other groups, like West Africans, will probably overperform.0 -
I like the riffing phrase to go with a music reference.Gardenwalker said:
No, I was riffing off your reference to the “non-working rich” by quoting Mark Knopfler (adopting a working class voice) on “Money for Nothing”.another_richard said:
So are you saying the working poor can be the next Mark Knopfler if they tried a bit harder ?Gardenwalker said:
Since we are talking about the NE:another_richard said:
The affluent areas get the affluent immigrants and the deprived areas get the deprived immigrants.Gardenwalker said:
We are (were) incredibly lucky to import the most educated and hardest working Europeans and, indeed, what a contrast to our own underclass where, as you note, Britain as a very long tail.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
However I guess if you are a member of said underclass, you don’t see that, you see the gypsies setting up encampment in the local park, and the troubling preponderance of underage sex rings down the local taxi rank.
I've been saying that for years.
The group which loses out most is the UK's working poor and the group which gains most is the UK's non-working rich.
See the little faggot with the earring and the make up
Yeah buddy that's his own hair
That little faggot got his own jet airplane
That little faggot he's a millionaire
We got to install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deliveries
We got to move these refrigerators, we gotta move these color TV's
I suspect they've already realised that music or football might be a way of making millions.
But in reality its a lot less likely than them getting a nice upper-middle class career.
Though I'd say that those who make it big in music or sport do work damn hard.
They also have talent and luck.0 -
Wouldn’t that mess up the Remainers plans though...CarlottaVance said:
That’s the only path open to them. Jeremy to lay the motion Tuesday?justin124 said:
It is not in his gift if the Commons is willing to install an alternative PM.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
1. Jezza doing something which take priority over their other plans
2. Unlikely (?) to be successful - in which case time is wasted and Boris strengthened
3. If successful need to find a new PM
4. Corbyn goes first (?) unlikely to be successful - if not he has wasted time
5. If no alternative found then an election where Boris sets the date (can an election be called while Parliament is prorogued it does it need to wait until it returns to move a writ or whatever?)0 -
Does anyone else, when they hear "the Rebel MPs", think of this?
https://youtu.be/SE0hwfCu-m40 -
We voted leave because otherwise Turkish (Muslims) were coming.Gardenwalker said:
I was talking about EU migration.another_richard said:
Do you have that data ?Gardenwalker said:
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.
The most recent ONS data gives unemployment at 3.7% UK nationals, 3.5% EU nationals and 7.0% non-EU nationals.
Those non-EU rates surprise me, but one imagines if you drill into the data the issue is overwhelmingly immigrants from poorer Muslim communities, and Somalis.
Other groups, like West Africans, will probably overperform.0 -
But if the EU don't enforce 31 October date, then we remain indefinitely.Charles said:
Wouldn’t that mess up the Remainers plans though...CarlottaVance said:
That’s the only path open to them. Jeremy to lay the motion Tuesday?justin124 said:
It is not in his gift if the Commons is willing to install an alternative PM.CarlottaVance said:
But how do they force it? Boris Just has to sit on his hands and wait until they VONC him. Then the date is in his gift. He’s never going to agree an extension.AlastairMeeks said:
So bloody obvious, I’ve been saying this ever since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister.TGOHF said:Lol Labour - “bring it errr off..”
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1168080927685259266?s=21
1. Jezza doing something which take priority over their other plans
2. Unlikely (?) to be successful - in which case time is wasted and Boris strengthened
3. If successful need to find a new PM
4. Corbyn goes first (?) unlikely to be successful - if not he has wasted time
5. If no alternative found then an election where Boris sets the date (can an election be called while Parliament is prorogued it does it need to wait until it returns to move a writ or whatever?)0 -
You claim to know exactly what drove each leave voters decision?eek said:
We voted leave because otherwise Turkish (Muslims) were coming.Gardenwalker said:
I was talking about EU migration.another_richard said:
Do you have that data ?Gardenwalker said:
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.
The most recent ONS data gives unemployment at 3.7% UK nationals, 3.5% EU nationals and 7.0% non-EU nationals.
Those non-EU rates surprise me, but one imagines if you drill into the data the issue is overwhelmingly immigrants from poorer Muslim communities, and Somalis.
Other groups, like West Africans, will probably overperform.
Some arrogance or delusion on display here
0 -
a lot of what @hamiltonace published was rubbish though, especially around regulations.malcolmg said:
Hamiltonace said he was in medical sector and reckoned it was going to be problematic for his businessnichomar said:Have we ever had a thread header from someone actually in the import/export business across a number of sectors to tell us what is potentially going to happen. Of course they may be too busy to write it at the moment.
He's in a very specific segment of medical consumables, IIRC0 -
Yet Labour suddenly seem less interested in an election....... wonder why that is.....CarlottaVance said:0 -
I'm having a Twitter debate with OGH. Why can't we just repeal the FTPA? Surely it's in the interest of both sides0 -
No just mentioning a poster that was probably a factor...Floater said:
You claim to know exactly what drove each leave voters decision?eek said:
We voted leave because otherwise Turkish (Muslims) were coming.Gardenwalker said:
I was talking about EU migration.another_richard said:
Do you have that data ?Gardenwalker said:
I agree with @OnlyLivingBoy that there is no point in simply trading anecdote.eek said:
No I mean comment on what I see - East Europeans with children joining the 16 hour a week brigade.malcolmg said:
On here they think that people on benefits are living in a land of milk and honey , half the time abroad and other half in their mansions, all funded by being lazy tossers.Benpointer said:
This is utter bollocks. Have you any expereince of the welfare system in action?eek said:
Nope, in a lot of cases especially up North productive youngsters came along and then discovered how to play our welfare system. And being organised a lot have discovered how to play our welfare system better than the locals can.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I don't think either part of that is correct. There are many other countries in Europe with a far shorter tail of the unproductive and uneducated. The reasons why we are different are I suspect complex and tied into our history of industrialisation and deindustrialization, both of which were particularly brutal. I imagine with some effort we could do something about it.
Also, I believe that the data tell us we are disproportionately importing the young, educated and productive from Europe. The kind of people who would be sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs are probably still sitting on their arse in their equivalent of Hartlepool smoking tabs.
No 'productive youngster' would choose that route if they had a genuine alternative of productive employment - living on welfare is pretty crap.
The data says immigration has been overwhelmingly positive.
The problem, however, is that our in-work credits system incentivises what you are talking about and to most fair-minded people, it shouldn’t be allowed.
The most recent ONS data gives unemployment at 3.7% UK nationals, 3.5% EU nationals and 7.0% non-EU nationals.
Those non-EU rates surprise me, but one imagines if you drill into the data the issue is overwhelmingly immigrants from poorer Muslim communities, and Somalis.
Other groups, like West Africans, will probably overperform.
Some arrogance or delusion on display here0 -
Are the SNP and PC in favour of an election as soon as possible?0
-
Sad decline of HK policing:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/09/hong-kong-police-lost-trust/597205/0 -
Towns and cities develop where they do because of reasons.malcolmg said:
There speaks a real ToryTGOHF said:
The Americans have the right idea - just leave it to become a ghost town.Gallowgate said:Hartlepool IS reinventing itself. It just takes a long time and a lot of people suffer.
The regeneration around the marina is lovely.
If that reason is no longer relevant (e.g. a closed coal mine) then the community needs to find a new sense of purpose. That could be new industries, or as a commuter town or something else. But if it doesn't have a purpose when why insist that it continues to exist?
[yes, this is the same philosophical argument that makes sense for the dissolution of the Union if one of the consistent parts decides that it no longer has merit]0 -
1.8% voted for no deal. 40% voted for Corbyns Labour.HYUFD said:
A majority of voters voted for Brexit, a majority have not voted for CorbynScott_P said:
Why do you keep conflating Brexit with no deal? The vast majority of the country can accept Brexit but not no deal. The government is choosing not to deliver it.0
This discussion has been closed.