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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Induction Technique. Comparing and combining betting markets

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited September 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Induction Technique. Comparing and combining betting markets

Write about what you know, they say. So I don’t normally write about American politics, about which I don’t pretend to have any special understanding. I’ll happily bet on it though. I’m going to break my habit now, to consider four related markets on Betfair and their interrelationship, to see if I can find some relative value.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    First (and I read Alastair's excellent header too).
  • Second! Like.....who the heck knows any more.....oh yes, Jo Swinson in 'Best PM ratings' (or is that 'don't Know'?)
  • And thank you for a fascinating analysis Mr Meeks.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Excellent stuff Alistair.
    I’d also note that there tends to be an anomaly between the Democratic Nominee market, and the less active Nominee (both Republican and Democratic) market, and I’ve managed to get considerably better implied odds on Warren in the latter a couple of times.
  • No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

  • Good morning, everyone.

    Sad news of Hubert's death in the F2 race following F1 qualifying yesterday. RIP.

    I very rarely bet on multiples, but it's interesting to consider related contingencies. I did back Harris a while ago, (26 for candidacy, 67 for presidency) as tipped by some chap called *checks notes* Mike Smithson. Interesting article, Mr. Meeks.

    Incidentally, thanks to the kind words of those who left them yesterday. Mildly surprised a comparison to the Battle of Ipsus went down so well. (Mr. Rook, getting Issus and Ipsus confused, given that happened within decades of one another, involved many of the same people, and are almost identical as words, is eminently understandable).
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Will the marchers have the chance to defend democracy by voting sooner rather than later?

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1167928278402748417

  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    edited September 2019

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
  • dr_spyn said:

    Will the marchers have the chance to defend democracy by voting sooner rather than later?

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1167928278402748417

    Where has the extra 4 points come from
  • Betting Post

    F1: got to do some stuff which slightly delays putting up the pre-race ramble, but here are the tips.

    I'm splitting one stake for equal profits and backing Bottas at 7 and Hamilton at 8 to not be classified. There's always the risk of a lap 1 pileup, and Mercedes also has a chance for engine explosions. On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    I've also backed Hamilton at 2.2 to beat Vettel. They were practically identical in qualifying and the Mercedes may be kinder to its tyres than the Ferrari, which seems to chew them up.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    That could well be right.
  • Osborne's austerity? IDS's universal credit debacle? Lansley's NHS fiasco?

    Whatever caused them to die younger may well also be responsible for the Brexit vote, but will not be cured by Brexit, that's the tragedy of it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Betting Post

    F1: got to do some stuff which slightly delays putting up the pre-race ramble, but here are the tips.

    I'm splitting one stake for equal profits and backing Bottas at 7 and Hamilton at 8 to not be classified. There's always the risk of a lap 1 pileup, and Mercedes also has a chance for engine explosions. On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    I've also backed Hamilton at 2.2 to beat Vettel. They were practically identical in qualifying and the Mercedes may be kinder to its tyres than the Ferrari, which seems to chew them up.

    The latter seems a decent bet.
    Mercedes apparently were not using their fastest engine qualifying modes, as a safety precaution, so they ought to be closer to Ferrari in the race.
    I’d want longer odds on a Mercedes DNF.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    That's a heck of a lead and not particularly compatible with the apparent horror of an alleged coup/end of democracy as we know it/4 extra days off. Probably makes a VoNC slightly less likely, however.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    That could well be right.
    Seems right to me, too.
    Immediate Brexit chaos, though not impossible, has gained a rhetorical force which the reality doesn’t justify.
    Like surbiton, I don’t expect things to improve thereafter.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    On topic I have even less feel for US betting than Alastair. I have a modest bet on Trump being re-elected and that is about it. We can deceive ourselves that our various conversations with colleagues and friends here give us some insight as to what is going on here but there is no doubt that America is a foreign country and fly over America even more so.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    This is definitely a possible scenario but another is that having left without a deal we do a deal very shortly thereafter. I think that there will be concern about the Irish situation and a desire to regularise things as there will be in the Channel ports. Of course a desire and a result are not the same things, I have never even met Michelle Pfeiffer for example, but it may well be that minds will be focused and having delivered Brexit Boris will have the ability to be more flexible.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,387

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    I would agree to a point.

    If Johnson witholds the payment the EU might decide to make life difficult from their end, and the French do like a man with a clipboard.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    To be clear, we are talking about a time limited partial EU dispensation on the border in Ireland.

    Border controls on traffic going into the EU across the Channel will be applied in full on day 1, unless something changes.

    The sheep will be burnt.

    And although somewhat consumed by Brexit, I have to say interesting header by Alastair about something different.
  • Mr. B, understandable perspective. If true on qualifying then the race pace should be a net gain for Mercedes.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    They won’t even get on the ferry withought the right paperwork
  • Turning to the Democrat side, there are some real oddities. Andrew Yang has fervent fans and he is this year’s heart-over-head betting sensation. He is unaccountably as short as 25 for the nomination and 38 for the presidency. The price for the presidency is especially silly – it is an implied 65% chance that if he is nominated he will win the presidency.
    Yang's odds are indeed nuts. He's the greatest gift to rational punters since Ron Paul. However, he could also lose the Dem nomination but win the presidency as an independent; I think that's actually less implausible than him winning the Dem nomination. So you can't get his implied chance of winning if nominated by dividing by the Dem Nom odds.
  • Best prices - Year of next UK GE?

    2019 4/9
    2020 5/2
    2021 33/1
    2022 or later 16/1
  • No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    I would agree to a point.

    If Johnson witholds the payment the EU might decide to make life difficult from their end, and the French do like a man with a clipboard.
    Not to mention that UK standards will change suddenly if a US deal is pulled out of Boris's back pocket. It is not that Brexiteers like chlorinated chicken but that such a deal would rule out Britain rejoining the EU.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    FF43 said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    To be clear, we are talking about a time limited partial EU dispensation on the border in Ireland.

    Border controls on traffic going into the EU across the Channel will be applied in full on day 1, unless something changes.

    The sheep will be burnt.

    And although somewhat consumed by Brexit, I have to say interesting header by Alastair about something different.
    I should add there are four problems for exporters to the EU in No Deal, essentially anything other than Single Market, although the first and last of these are eliminated by an FTA:

    1. Tariffs. A 10% tariff on British cars makes them unprofitable. 40% on sheep meat
    2. Border checks and delays. Particularly intense for fresh food.
    3. Extra red tape to handle customs etc.
    4. Regulation. You are only compliant if the other party says you are. Absent agreement your product is illegal in the target market.

    This is formidable set of barriers. I expect exports to be substantially throttled to the EU with knock on effects to the domestic economy. No Deal isn't sustainable beyond a few weeks, I think.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    nichomar said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    They won’t even get on the ferry withought the right paperwork
    So we get one lorryload of imports for each lorry, and then the problems start.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Nigelb said:



    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    That could well be right.
    Seems right to me, too.
    Immediate Brexit chaos, though not impossible, has gained a rhetorical force which the reality doesn’t justify.
    Like surbiton, I don’t expect things to improve thereafter.
    Agreed. I expect the government to do everything it can to avoid chaos in the days and weeks immediately after exit. The problems will emerge over time - assuming no deal is agreed. And of course there are the unknown unknowns.

    I expect the Tories to win a GE too. Which they deserve - not as a reward for their behaviour but so that they can be accountable for what they are doing and so that they can sort out all the “what then?” questions they - and their supporters - are singularly failing to answer now.

    I also expect any Parliamentary attempts to stop a No Deal exit to fail. I have long expected No Deal to happen, ever since March in fact when I wrote a header saying that the ERG had won (and was poo-poohed by many on here for saying so).

    On topic, an interesting header, thank you @AlistairM. I have many on young Mr Buttigieg. Doesn’t look as if I will be collecting :(
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    To be clear, we are talking about a time limited partial EU dispensation on the border in Ireland.

    Border controls on traffic going into the EU across the Channel will be applied in full on day 1, unless something changes.

    The sheep will be burnt.

    And although somewhat consumed by Brexit, I have to say interesting header by Alastair about something different.
    I should add there are four problems for exporters to the EU in No Deal, essentially anything other than Single Market, although the first and last of these are eliminated by an FTA:

    1. Tariffs. A 10% tariff on British cars makes them unprofitable. 40% on sheep meat
    2. Border checks and delays. Particularly intense for fresh food.
    3. Extra red tape to handle customs etc.
    4. Regulation. You are only compliant if the other party says you are. Absent agreement your product is illegal in the target market.

    This is formidable set of barriers. I expect exports to be substantially throttled to the EU with knock on effects to the domestic economy. No Deal isn't sustainable beyond a few weeks, I think.
    Re point 2. If food lorries are delayed, soon everything will be. Such is the nature of traffic jams. Still, think of the overtime for lorry drivers, and their maximum driving times. And that leads to lost freight capacity because a lorry stuck in a customs queue for days might as well not exist.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    To be clear, we are talking about a time limited partial EU dispensation on the border in Ireland.

    Border controls on traffic going into the EU across the Channel will be applied in full on day 1, unless something changes.

    The sheep will be burnt.

    And although somewhat consumed by Brexit, I have to say interesting header by Alastair about something different.
    I should add there are four problems for exporters to the EU in No Deal, essentially anything other than Single Market, although the first and last of these are eliminated by an FTA:

    1. Tariffs. A 10% tariff on British cars makes them unprofitable. 40% on sheep meat
    2. Border checks and delays. Particularly intense for fresh food.
    3. Extra red tape to handle customs etc.
    4. Regulation. You are only compliant if the other party says you are. Absent agreement your product is illegal in the target market.

    This is formidable set of barriers. I expect exports to be substantially throttled to the EU with knock on effects to the domestic economy. No Deal isn't sustainable beyond a few weeks, I think.
    Re point 2. If food lorries are delayed, soon everything will be. Such is the nature of traffic jams. Still, think of the overtime for lorry drivers, and their maximum driving times. And that leads to lost freight capacity because a lorry stuck in a customs queue for days might as well not exist.
    A lot of haulage firms are very lean / hand to mouth operations. They won't be able to survive more than a few weeks of delays and issues.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Bleak but true, I see similar stuff with my patients in Leicester. Hard to see how Brexit will solve Hartlepools problems. Maybe fewer regulations on the curvature of bananas will solve their issues.
  • Farewell to Ruth Davidson and the ‘Tory revival’. But what’s next for Scotland?

    ... This was before the shadow of Brexit, though, and the advent of the Farage/Cummings/Johnson axis – of dark money and Facebook falsehoods; of Little England and Waterloo and Trafalgar. The political casualties of Brexit are propped up like corpses at an Irish wake in the pubs around Westminster and now the contagion has reached Scotland.

    Davidson’s personal attributes secured a good press in Scotland which often bordered on the fawning and this helped deflect a more inconvenient reality: in opposition at Holyrood she and her party were simply devoid of anything resembling a coherent political strategy. She was a far more formidable debating adversary for Nicola Sturgeon than anyone in Scottish Labour but the depth and complexity of her portfolio of ideas ranged from saying No to a second independence referendum to calling the first one nasty and divisive.

    Beyond this, there was very little of substance...

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/01/farewell-ruth-davidson-and-the-tory-revival-whats-next-for-scotland
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Nigelb said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. We will pay our VAT with the VAT Return. Duties will be paid also like it is paid today. I do not know how small importers will be dealt with [ i.e. those not registered ] Presumably Exporters, particularly of food, may face regulatory checks but everyone knows that the regulations and standards in the UK will not suddenly change. This will help Johnson. He will go to the polls with the words "it was all project fear". I would say it would take a fair few months when we gradually become a WTO country. In fact. as the story says, in the event of a NO Deal Brexit, Ireland will not be given a pass as they cannot be. Either you have a single market or you don't. And Customs barriers, particularly for food and specially for live animals have to be set up. But a few months will pass before the hard realities of a No Deal emerges.
    That could well be right.
    Seems right to me, too.
    Immediate Brexit chaos, though not impossible, has gained a rhetorical force which the reality doesn’t justify.
    Like surbiton, I don’t expect things to improve thereafter.
    Yes, I don't expect massive chaos on 1 November, just grinding difficulties that worsen over the months.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616

    dr_spyn said:

    Will the marchers have the chance to defend democracy by voting sooner rather than later?

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1167928278402748417

    Where has the extra 4 points come from
    Increased certainty to vote of Tories maybe?
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    dr_spyn said:

    Will the marchers have the chance to defend democracy by voting sooner rather than later?

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1167928278402748417

    Where has the extra 4 points come from
    Increased certainty to vote of Tories maybe?
    No it has to have come from other parties not listed we need to see the complete breakdown.
  • McDonnell on Sky just now over a GE

    'Yes, bring it on'

    So when Boris calls for a GE he will get his two third support
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    To be clear, we are talking about a time limited partial EU dispensation on the border in Ireland.

    Border controls on traffic going into the EU across the Channel will be applied in full on day 1, unless something changes.

    The sheep will be burnt.

    And although somewhat consumed by Brexit, I have to say interesting header by Alastair about something different.
    I should add there are four problems for exporters to the EU in No Deal, essentially anything other than Single Market, although the first and last of these are eliminated by an FTA:

    1. Tariffs. A 10% tariff on British cars makes them unprofitable. 40% on sheep meat
    2. Border checks and delays. Particularly intense for fresh food.
    3. Extra red tape to handle customs etc.
    4. Regulation. You are only compliant if the other party says you are. Absent agreement your product is illegal in the target market.

    This is formidable set of barriers. I expect exports to be substantially throttled to the EU with knock on effects to the domestic economy. No Deal isn't sustainable beyond a few weeks, I think.
    Re point 2. If food lorries are delayed, soon everything will be. Such is the nature of traffic jams. Still, think of the overtime for lorry drivers, and their maximum driving times. And that leads to lost freight capacity because a lorry stuck in a customs queue for days might as well not exist.
    There will be some pressure on those lorries to return empty to keep the traffic flowing, I suspect.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come
  • eek said:


    A lot of haulage firms are very lean / hand to mouth operations. They won't be able to survive more than a few weeks of delays and issues.

    I guess the government can print money and subsidize them.
  • Peter Hennessey absolutely eviscerating Boris on R4.
  • I don't think it's at all surprising that Yang is a 65% chance IF he's nominated, or that Clinton is 39% IF she is nominated.

    In the unlikely event Yang is nominated, he'd have tremendous momentum - what an underdog story to come through from here and grab the nomination! He'd also presumably have demonstrated political skills to cut through a crowded field (which we've not really seen yet but would have seen if he's nominated).

    In the unlikely event Clinton gets it, it would presumably be off the back of a brokered convention following a painful nomination process. That'd be a bad place for the Democrats to be.

    Harris and Warren being around 50% if nominated feels about right. It wouldn't be massively surprising to see either get the nod, so neither would necessarily have massive momentum. Trump is a good campaigner, the economy will probably hold together okay (albeit he's probably made an error engineering a boom for the midterms rather than his own re-election). Biden and Sanders' slightly better odds if nominated probably reflect a belief (which sadly I suspect is correct) that owning a Y chromosome is worth a point or two at a presidential election in the US.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2019
    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    IIUC the FTPA wording is "supports an early general election", how can they be sure the government won't go "bwahah, we've changed our minds about the date, GE on November 7th"?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    To be clear, we are talking about a time limited partial EU dispensation on the border in Ireland.

    Border controls on traffic going into the EU across the Channel will be applied in full on day 1, unless something changes.

    The sheep will be burnt.

    And although somewhat consumed by Brexit, I have to say interesting header by Alastair about something different.
    I should add there are four problems for exporters to the EU in No Deal, essentially anything other than Single Market, although the first and last of these are eliminated by an FTA:

    1. Tariffs. A 10% tariff on British cars makes them unprofitable. 40% on sheep meat
    2. Border checks and delays. Particularly intense for fresh food.
    3. Extra red tape to handle customs etc.
    4. Regulation. You are only compliant if the other party says you are. Absent agreement your product is illegal in the target market.

    This is formidable set of barriers. I expect exports to be substantially throttled to the EU with knock on effects to the domestic economy. No Deal isn't sustainable beyond a few weeks, I think.
    Re point 2. If food lorries are delayed, soon everything will be. Such is the nature of traffic jams. Still, think of the overtime for lorry drivers, and their maximum driving times. And that leads to lost freight capacity because a lorry stuck in a customs queue for days might as well not exist.
    The lorries that won't need customs clearance, so can be fast tracked will be:

    1) Those returning to the continent empty.

    2) Sealed cargos from the Republic of Ireland. These are SM compatible and tariff free, merely in transit via the UK.

    I wouldn't expect the queues in Dover to be too bad, as cargos without documentation will simply be refused by hauliers. They will wait in depots rather than Kentish lorry parks.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
  • nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2019
    If we're getting an early GE then I think No No Deal becomes extremely juicy. Not only does anything less than Con+DUP maj mean an extension, a substantial Con maj probably gives Boris the space to extend and keep talking.
  • The PM may have cunningly engineered a way to make the worst Opposition Leader in history the primary repository of both pro-EU and anti-Conservative tactical voting.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
    Just what does a Brexit Party 'top candidate" look like?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    Don't let reality destroy the No Dealers best hope of escaping.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
  • nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
    Just what does a Brexit Party 'top candidate" look like?
    I assume the ones who are best likely to win an election probably drawn from their MEP's
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    McDonnell on Ridge asked about a GE said ‘bring it on’
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
    Just what does a Brexit Party 'top candidate" look like?
    TBP have selected their candidates - I suppose the tories could offer not to stand a candidate in those constituencies if they wanted to help the MP they've just fired to win the seat.
  • eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    McDonnell did say 'bring it on' but not the date
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
    Just what does a Brexit Party 'top candidate" look like?
    Fat gobby homophobe
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Limited May/Hammond level thinking - file in the bin as analysis.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    nichomar said:

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    McDonnell on Ridge asked about a GE said ‘bring it on’
    Not quite the same thing as committing to an election.
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    The choice is between No Dealers and everyone else.

    Boris Johnson’s No Deal government has only a debatable majority in the HoC, that House in the past has voted AGAINST No Deal.

    Johnson does not hold the absolute majority of opinion in the country, either.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    "It's a coastal town they forgot to close down," as Morrissey said/sang.
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    Whilst I would like it to happen it should not be called a GONU, it is clearly anything but. National unity is not possible for at least the next few years, mainly thanks to Brexit.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    So project fear claims of miles of tailbacks on the motorways are a load of bullcrap?
  • nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
    Just what does a Brexit Party 'top candidate" look like?
    Fat gobby homophobe
    And that's just Ann Widdecombe
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
    The Met Office get all of their funding through contracts (though many of their contracts are with government departments or quangos). If they negotiate a cut-price contract with one customer all the other customers will want the same improved deal.

    In the US the system is different. The basic model forecast is funded directly and given away for free. That's why the Met Office can be undercut - its competitors aren't paying for the model output.

    Before you rush to embrace the US system reflect that direct funding has led to under-funding and therefore lower quality forecasts. The Met Office has competed by providing better quality.
  • eek said:

    nichomar said:

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    McDonnell on Ridge asked about a GE said ‘bring it on’
    Not quite the same thing as committing to an election.
    It was an unequivocable bring it on and I have no doubt at all Corbyn will accept the challenge, anything else will see him destroyed by the media
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    The choice is between No Dealers and everyone else.

    Boris Johnson’s No Deal government has only a debatable majority in the HoC, that House in the past has voted AGAINST No Deal.

    Johnson does not hold the absolute majority of opinion in the country, either.
    Of course but a GONU made up of remainers is not a GONU
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    LOL, the idiots will stuff UK trade and help ROI sail through, you could not make it up.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    I never had any doubt. They just could not turn down the chance after all they have said

    I would suggest that if Boris is defeated this week by conservative mps voting against their government, those mps may well be deselected and I would expect him to call a GE, and form a pact with Farage for TBP to supply their top candidates into the deselected mps seats

    Maybe nonsense but most everything is just now
    Just what does a Brexit Party 'top candidate" look like?
    Fat gobby homophobe
    And that's just Ann Widdecombe
    Ok let’s try Uber rich hedge fund manager or ex revolutionary ira supporting communist or even seven times failed parliamentary candidate
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
    The Met Office get all of their funding through contracts (though many of their contracts are with government departments or quangos). If they negotiate a cut-price contract with one customer all the other customers will want the same improved deal.

    In the US the system is different. The basic model forecast is funded directly and given away for free. That's why the Met Office can be undercut - its competitors aren't paying for the model output.

    Before you rush to embrace the US system reflect that direct funding has led to under-funding and therefore lower quality forecasts. The Met Office has competed by providing better quality.
    Am I missing something?

    From https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/what/pws

    "Funding
    The PWSCG is mainly funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) on behalf of Government. In addition, the Civil Aviation Authority pays towards the service to underpin its services for UK and global aviation. Some research and development projects receive additional funding from other sources, including the EU. The current total PWSCG funding is approximately £83 million p.a."



  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696
    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    Have I missed something? Has anyone associated with the government suggested a 17th October GE?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    On Topic,

    I am not convinced that there is much arbitrage between these markets. Harris would have a lower chance as POTUS than Dem candidate, as being black and of hindu extraction will not play well in the flyover states, even if Dems are happy with it.

    There is also the issue of campaign energy and momentum, and the one showing that is Warren. At some point Sanders will drop out and back her. I am on her for nominee, and the POTUS price is about right.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    LOL, the idiots will stuff UK trade and help ROI sail through, you could not make it up.
    Is there a Zil lane for Irish lorries through Kent ? That is news..
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    McDonnell on Ridge asked about a GE said ‘bring it on’
    Not quite the same thing as committing to an election.
    It was an unequivocable bring it on and I have no doubt at all Corbyn will accept the challenge, anything else will see him destroyed by the media
    I suspect (in fact I know having spoken to someone on the opposition front bench yesterday) there will be a proviso..
  • Dura_Ace said:

    "It's a coastal town they forgot to close down," as Morrissey said/sang.
    Hartlepool is screwed, under pretty much any economic dispensation outside full-bodied Communism, and probably even then.

    It has no reason to exist anymore; and like many towns in the UK it is simply propped up via social spending to support a lumpen proletariat.

    As unlikely as it sounds, It should concentrate on being a commuter resort for Newcastle, which is where real productivity may feasibly be developed.

    Brexit fucks even that idea, given the outsized hit expected to the North East economy.
  • Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    Not if we decide not to let them.
  • eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    Have I missed something? Has anyone associated with the government suggested a 17th October GE?
    No and McDonnell did not suggest a date
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    TGOHF said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    So project fear claims of miles of tailbacks on the motorways are a load of bullcrap?
    That will be all the UK lorries
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
    The Met Office get all of their funding through contracts (though many of their contracts are with government departments or quangos). If they negotiate a cut-price contract with one customer all the other customers will want the same improved deal.

    In the US the system is different. The basic model forecast is funded directly and given away for free. That's why the Met Office can be undercut - its competitors aren't paying for the model output.

    Before you rush to embrace the US system reflect that direct funding has led to under-funding and therefore lower quality forecasts. The Met Office has competed by providing better quality.
    The BBC's forecasts have been very poor since they switched from the Met Office. A great example of how market forces don't always work for the poplulation at large.
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    Whilst I would like it to happen it should not be called a GONU, it is clearly anything but. National unity is not possible for at least the next few years, mainly thanks to Brexit.
    Nope. Mainly thanks to those who refused to accept Brexit
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
    The Met Office get all of their funding through contracts (though many of their contracts are with government departments or quangos). If they negotiate a cut-price contract with one customer all the other customers will want the same improved deal.

    In the US the system is different. The basic model forecast is funded directly and given away for free. That's why the Met Office can be undercut - its competitors aren't paying for the model output.

    Before you rush to embrace the US system reflect that direct funding has led to under-funding and therefore lower quality forecasts. The Met Office has competed by providing better quality.
    Am I missing something?

    From https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/what/pws

    "Funding
    The PWSCG is mainly funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) on behalf of Government. In addition, the Civil Aviation Authority pays towards the service to underpin its services for UK and global aviation. Some research and development projects receive additional funding from other sources, including the EU. The current total PWSCG funding is approximately £83 million p.a."
    It's a contract. The money is handed over in return for specific services delivered. Any increase/decrease in funding is tied to a change in services provided.
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
    The Met Office get all of their funding through contracts (though many of their contracts are with government departments or quangos). If they negotiate a cut-price contract with one customer all the other customers will want the same improved deal.

    In the US the system is different. The basic model forecast is funded directly and given away for free. That's why the Met Office can be undercut - its competitors aren't paying for the model output.

    Before you rush to embrace the US system reflect that direct funding has led to under-funding and therefore lower quality forecasts. The Met Office has competed by providing better quality.
    The BBC's forecasts have been very poor since they switched from the Met Office. A great example of how market forces don't always work for the poplulation at large.
    Market forces only ever work if what is profitable is also what is in the public good - a detail often forgotten by right-wing politicians.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,696

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Chris said:

    No-deal Brexit game plan: turn a blind eye at Border

    One senior European Commission figure has privately acknowledged in discussions with companies that it may be necessary for authorities to "turn a blind eye" with some sectors in the weeks after a hard Brexit, with the likes of mechanics, engineers and plumbers mentioned.

    A third source cautioned a no-deal Brexit would be an "emergency" whereby the legal order on the island of Ireland will change as the UK becomes a third country. They added: "Ireland is not going to be given a hospital pass. Work with the Commission is not concluded, it's ongoing."

    https://m.independent.ie/business/brexit/nodeal-brexit-game-plan-turn-a-blind-eye-at-border-38452852.html

    I always believed this is the Alexander Johnson game plan. Nothing is going to change overnight. Even the HMRC has told us that no lorries coming in to the UK from the EU will be stopped. ...
    These lorries that will come into the UK without being checked - what happens when they want to go back again?
    95 % of containers exported fro the ROI either go to or through the Uk. Hold up trade at Dover and the French stuff the Irish.
    No, as they originate in the EU, ROI cargos do not need customs documents or approval at French ports. They can be fast tracked past any queue.
    Not if we decide not to let them.
    Ah - good idea! Let's blockade Irish traffic.

    Tyndall diplomacy at work - thank goodness you're not in a position of power.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    edited September 2019

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    eek said:

    nichomar said:

    Looks like labour will support a motion for a GE 17th October here we come

    Link / Source?
    McDonnell on Ridge asked about a GE said ‘bring it on’
    Not quite the same thing as committing to an election.
    It was an unequivocable bring it on and I have no doubt at all Corbyn will accept the challenge, anything else will see him destroyed by the media
    TBH, it's little difficult to conceive of anything more destructive being said by most at least of the media than has already been said. Do you mean that you expect the Morning Star to turn against him?
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    The choice is between No Dealers and everyone else.

    Boris Johnson’s No Deal government has only a debatable majority in the HoC, that House in the past has voted AGAINST No Deal.

    Johnson does not hold the absolute majority of opinion in the country, either.
    Of course but a GONU made up of remainers is not a GONU
    Is Corbyn a Remainer?

    You are basically making Boris’s category error except in his case it is deliberate attempt to divide the country into “us” and “them”. Not sure what your excuse is.
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    Whilst I would like it to happen it should not be called a GONU, it is clearly anything but. National unity is not possible for at least the next few years, mainly thanks to Brexit.
    Nope. Mainly thanks to those who refused to accept Brexit
    There are not many at all who refuse to accept Brexit. The 48% just want to have some input into what Brexit is delivered.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited September 2019

    Dura_Ace said:

    "It's a coastal town they forgot to close down," as Morrissey said/sang.
    Hartlepool is screwed, under pretty much any economic dispensation outside full-bodied Communism, and probably even then.

    It has no reason to exist anymore; and like many towns in the UK it is simply propped up via social spending to support a lumpen proletariat.

    As unlikely as it sounds, It should concentrate on being a commuter resort for Newcastle, which is where real productivity may feasibly be developed.

    Brexit fucks even that idea, given the outsized hit expected to the North East economy.
    When I was walking around Redcar last Friday night I really was thinking after the 45 minute drive there what on earth you could do there.
  • On a GONU how could it be supported by the public if it consists only of remainers

    The choice is between No Dealers and everyone else.

    Boris Johnson’s No Deal government has only a debatable majority in the HoC, that House in the past has voted AGAINST No Deal.

    Johnson does not hold the absolute majority of opinion in the country, either.
    Of course but a GONU made up of remainers is not a GONU
    Is Corbyn a Remainer?

    You are basically making Boris’s category error except in his case it is deliberate attempt to divide the country into “us” and “them”. Not sure what your excuse is.
    Corbyn will not head a GONU
  • On top of that, rain's possible, albeit apparently unlikely (my faith in the BBC weather forecast has never been lower).

    You can find the forecast the BBC are too skint/tight to pay for by using the Met Office website.

    Met Office forecasts have been consistently rated better than the US forecasts (that the BBC now uses) for decades.
    It is a crazy situation that the met office, which is mostly government funded, is not expected to provide the UK public with weather via the most easy to access platform, which is the BBC.

    Presumably the BBC would be happy paying them whatever they are paying for the private forecasts, so the met office are effectively keeping the publicly funded data private.

    Quangos gone wrong.
    The Met Office get all of their funding through contracts (though many of their contracts are with government departments or quangos). If they negotiate a cut-price contract with one customer all the other customers will want the same improved deal.

    In the US the system is different. The basic model forecast is funded directly and given away for free. That's why the Met Office can be undercut - its competitors aren't paying for the model output.

    Before you rush to embrace the US system reflect that direct funding has led to under-funding and therefore lower quality forecasts. The Met Office has competed by providing better quality.
    Am I missing something?

    From https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/what/pws

    "Funding
    The PWSCG is mainly funded by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) on behalf of Government. In addition, the Civil Aviation Authority pays towards the service to underpin its services for UK and global aviation. Some research and development projects receive additional funding from other sources, including the EU. The current total PWSCG funding is approximately £83 million p.a."
    It's a contract. The money is handed over in return for specific services delivered. Any increase/decrease in funding is tied to a change in services provided.
    In which case the govt should make it a requirement of those contracts that the public have easy access to met office data via either BBC or media channels with equivalent reach.
This discussion has been closed.