politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Small minds and Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn’s latest gambit
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Fair play to Corbyn.
He is evil and I hate him, but only the Lib Dem’s have actually told him to go do one.0 -
Conservative - obviously temporary like Corbyn's planScott_P said:0 -
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."MikeSmithson said:
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the CommonsGIN1138 said:This is what I've been saying would happen:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?0 -
I was quite amused by that piece of sophistry, too.Chris said:
How typical of Brexiteers to claim a mandate for No Deal on the basis that - even though they were all lying through their teeth during the referendum campaign - Philip Hammond was truthfully warning people of the very danger we're all facing now!Gardenwalker said:
I was told that was Project FEAR so I dismissed it upon the guidance of Bojo and Banks.ReggieCide said:No mandate for no deal as it was never raised as a possibility pre referendum?
https://youtu.be/zy3fPPuR9_00 -
How on earth did Bebb get through the Tory selection process
? 0 -
And Remainer MPs voted thrice to make it happenChris said:
How typical of Brexiteers to claim a mandate for No Deal on the basis that - even though they were all lying through their teeth during the referendum campaign - Philip Hammond was truthfully warning people of the very danger we're all facing now!Gardenwalker said:
I was told that was Project FEAR so I dismissed it upon the guidance of Bojo and Banks.ReggieCide said:No mandate for no deal as it was never raised as a possibility pre referendum?
https://youtu.be/zy3fPPuR9_00 -
Interesting - Warren leads in Wisconsin poll:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/457548-warren-leads-field-by-5-points-in-wisconsin-poll
True, it comes very late in the primary cycle, but that is nonetheless a significant result, assuming it's not a rogue poll.
Also a key swing state.0 -
Corbyn didn't write to everyone asking them to playGardenwalker said:Fair play to Corbyn.
He is evil and I hate him, but only the Lib Dem’s have actually told him to go do one.0 -
Jezza as PM is a bigger disaster than leaving a trading cartel. And Swinson is savvy enough to realise that supporting this toxic IRA and Iran supporting old Marxist is the road to hell for the LDs.
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Does he want to lose the whip tomorrow?Scott_P said:0 -
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
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Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."MikeSmithson said:
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the CommonsGIN1138 said:This is what I've been saying would happen:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?0 -
Mr. B, aye.
"Let's make a far left nutcase PM. What could possibly go wrong?"
.....
Kudos to the Lib Dems for not going along with this madness.2 -
Perhaps they don't understand the word vital?Scott_P said:
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UK has contingency plans for getting medicines into the country in the event of an EU blockade, what a shocker!Scott_P said:
Count me in as surprised if lorries and containers actually get shipped, rather then just their cargo.0 -
You're going soft on CorbynMorris_Dancer said:Mr. B, aye.
"Let's make a far left nutcase PM. What could possibly go wrong?"
.....
Kudos to the Lib Dems for not going along with this madness.0 -
I think the 'vital supplies' referred to are medicines. So not quite so ridiculous as it sounds.Scott_P said:0 -
Corbyn is many things - incompetent, pig headed, inflexible, lacking in judgement etc etc - but lying and untrustworthiness are hard to pin on him - his views have been known, and remained unchanged, for decades and he cannot be compared to Johnson, who has built an entire career on lies.Richard_Tyndall said:
Because like you he is a liar and utterly untrustworthy.Gardenwalker said:
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?Richard_Tyndall said:Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
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Such scepticism is understandable but compared with the guy in No 10 he would appear trustworthy in the extreme.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Cide, we morris dancers are renowned for our generous and forgiving spirits.0
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These Con MPs "seriously considering" making Jezza Prime Minister have surely blown it with their constituencies and will be facing deselection imminently?0
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Yes, an honesty contest between them would be an unedifying spectacle but I guess you'd have to give it to the man in the red corner.anothernick said:
Corbyn is many things - incompetent, pig headed, inflexible, lacking in judgement etc etc - but lying and untrustworthiness are hard to pin on him - his views have been known, and remained unchanged, for decades and he cannot be compared to Johnson, who has built an entire career on lies.Richard_Tyndall said:
Because like you he is a liar and utterly untrustworthy.Gardenwalker said:
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?Richard_Tyndall said:Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
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It's their Executives they need to have squared.GIN1138 said:These Con MPs "seriously considering" making Jezza Prime Minister have surely blown it with their constituencies and will be facing deselection imminently?
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I don't get how Bebb can say what he is saying whilst still holding the Tory whip ? If he sincerely believes he needs to potentially put Corbyn in to stop "No Deal", surely he has to resign it.0
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You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."MikeSmithson said:
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.0 -
The suggestions on here that Corbyn is trustworthy are ridiculous. You trust him to root out antisemitism in the Labour party?0
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Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."MikeSmithson said:
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.0 -
Not a bad idea. Whoever can get a majority. Ken's retiring at the GE, what about Harman?Scott_P said:0 -
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:0 -
Doesn't the motion require a specific set of wording, which doesn't include a date?williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."MikeSmithson said:
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.0 -
Yes. I quoted it above. It's exhausting going round in circles.RobD said:
Doesn't the motion require a specific set of wording, which doesn't include a date?williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."MikeSmithson said:
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.0 -
I quite understand, but there are limits to such generosity when it encourages misplaced beliefs in the hearts of the gullible.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cide, we morris dancers are renowned for our generous and forgiving spirits.
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But you really are suggesting there could be a VONC, after a 2/3 vote for an early election? I'm sorry, but that really is crazy.williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.0 -
I look forward to seeing Jo Swinson's squirming U-turn.
I could make a crude analogy regarding what she is receiving from Lucas and Sturgeon, but I won't.0 -
I think the point is that those wanting to stop No Deal will get only one chance, and the Parliamentary arithmetic is exceedingly tight.Peter_the_Punter said:
Anyone not not possessing the implicit trust of MPs across the political spectrum is unlikely to get a majority.
I think Swinson's analysis is correct - though her political skills leave significant room for improvement...
I'm not entirely convinced that some motion along the lines of Cooper/Bowles, on the back of the Commons taking control of Parliamentary procedure, doesn't stand a better chance than the scheme to instal a temporary PM, whoever that might be.
Procedurally, it would be a very messy callifudge, with a highly uncertain outcome. But it might still stand more chance of succeeding.0 -
I believe she wants to succeed Bercow so I guess she is not retiring.logical_song said:
Not a bad idea. Whoever can get a majority. Ken's retiring at the GE, what about Harman?Scott_P said:0 -
Well if you get sacked by The Times and Michael Howard, for lying.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, an honesty contest between them would be an unedifying spectacle but I guess you'd have to give it to the man in the red corner.anothernick said:
Corbyn is many things - incompetent, pig headed, inflexible, lacking in judgement etc etc - but lying and untrustworthiness are hard to pin on him - his views have been known, and remained unchanged, for decades and he cannot be compared to Johnson, who has built an entire career on lies.Richard_Tyndall said:
Because like you he is a liar and utterly untrustworthy.Gardenwalker said:
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?Richard_Tyndall said:Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
Then on tape discuss have someone beaten up.
It could be a split decision.0 -
Maybe Ed could stand in for Harriet if she doesn't fancy upsetting Corbynlogical_song said:
Not a bad idea. Whoever can get a majority. Ken's retiring at the GE, what about Harman?Scott_P said:0 -
You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?Chris said:
But you really are suggesting there could be a VONC, after a 2/3 vote for an early election? I'm sorry, but that really is crazy.williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.0 -
Nicla and Lucas have no lower to sink - propping up a Jew hater isn’t such a stretch for them.SandyRentool said:I look forward to seeing Jo Swinson's squirming U-turn.
I could make a crude analogy regarding what she is receiving from Lucas and Sturgeon, but I won't.1 -
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?0 -
That one vote lead is gone anyway.Beibheirli_C said:0 -
With not that much more than a third of the MPs, if he didn't stick to the script, MPs could either replace him or trigger an election easily enough.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:0 -
Mr. Pulpstar, it's ironic.
He's clinging to his whip whilst believing Corbyn won't cling to Number 10.
If somebody told him his picture was next to 'gullible' in the illustrated dictionary he'd go and have a look.0 -
Mr. Herdson, aye, and in the meantime he'd have the executive authority of the Prime Minister.0
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Don't worry, England are lulling Australia into a false sense of security.
I did say that during the 1st test though...
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Dr Wollaston was already sitting as an independent - or has another Tory defected?Pulpstar said:
That one vote lead is gone anyway.Beibheirli_C said:0 -
But not against the $. And the movement against the € - which has its own poor economic data to contend with - is pretty minimal if you zoom out and look at the Sorry tale of our slumping currency over the year, or years.felix said:I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
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I don't wish to be rude, but I think you're out of your tiny mind.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
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Not if Elphicke is included as a Tory.Pulpstar said:
That one vote lead is gone anyway.Beibheirli_C said:0 -
And of course its all about optics. Part of the reason a lot of the public won't vote for Corbyn to be PM is because they just don't "see" him as PM.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?
But if they wake up one morning in the middle of September and there he is standing on the steps of Downing St as PM (after being put there by Parliament itself) then that barrier to voting for him in the publics mind is instantly removed for a lot of people.1 -
It's very crazy. Indeed, you could argue that the government would be duty-bound *not* to allow the tabling of such a motion, which if passed would defer an election already provided for, by the necessity of having to keep parliament sitting for another 14 days.Chris said:
But you really are suggesting there could be a VONC, after a 2/3 vote for an early election? I'm sorry, but that really is crazy.williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.
To critics who argued that the government was silencing parliament, the simple answer would be that after the Dissolution motion, it was now for the people to choose a government, not a parliament which had just voted itself out of existence by the time being.0 -
I've been thinking lately that Corbyn is not looking well which might excuse him a little for his latest tendency to megalomania.0
-
-
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:
You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?Chris said:
But you really are suggesting there could be a VONC, after a 2/3 vote for an early election? I'm sorry, but that really is crazy.williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.Chris said:
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.
Can you just clarify that, please?
0 -
I mean the notional majority count means buttons as there is no discipline on the fringes of all the parties right now anyway.Beibheirli_C said:
Dr Wollaston was already sitting as an independent - or has another Tory defected?Pulpstar said:
That one vote lead is gone anyway.Beibheirli_C said:
O'Mara, Field, Lee, Grieve, Bebb to name a few will vote the way they want to do so on matters regardless of whether or not they're in a party or independent.0 -
I think this is a stock photo, given that it appears to contain an oil container of some kind.Sandpit said:
UK has contingency plans for getting medicines into the country in the event of an EU blockade, what a shocker!Scott_P said:
Count me in as surprised if lorries and containers actually get shipped, rather then just their cargo.0 -
No doubt his power to take any kind of decision would be set out in the agreement he reached with the other parties. And if he didn't stick to it he would be VONC'd PDQ. In practice I think the other parties would VONC him anyway as soon as an A50 extension had been agreed and this would precipitate an election during which purdah rules apply so Corbyn would probably exercise the full powers of PM for only a week or two at most.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?0 -
And of course, unless the Queen asked someone else to form a government - which she obviously wouldn't do once an election had been approved - it would make not the slightest difference to Johnson's ability to choose the date of the election.david_herdson said:
It's very crazy. Indeed, you could argue that the government would be duty-bound *not* to allow the tabling of such a motion, which if passed would defer an election already provided for, by the necessity of having to keep parliament sitting for another 14 days.Chris said:
But you really are suggesting there could be a VONC, after a 2/3 vote for an early election? I'm sorry, but that really is crazy.williamglenn said:
Hmm, I think the fantasy is that the PM could win a 2/3 vote for an election and then change the date afterwards. It's not conceivable politically. If they tried it, there would be such a loss of trust, that the VONC would come into play.Chris said:
You're suggesting that there could be a 2/3 vote for an early general election, and after that there could be a vote of no confidence, and the appointment of a different prime minister, who would then be able to choose the date of the general election?williamglenn said:
Parliament wouldn't be dissolved immediately after the motion to approve an early election, so if the PM just banked the power to call one but decided to wait, parliament could still remove him.Chris said:
What do you mean about being VONCed? Once the date had been fixed it would be out of parliament's hands.williamglenn said:
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.Chris said:
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.williamglenn said:
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.
I'm all for original thinking, but I think you're in the realms of fantasy there.
To critics who argued that the government was silencing parliament, the simple answer would be that after the Dissolution motion, it was now for the people to choose a government, not a parliament which had just voted itself out of existence by the time being.
It's the purest nonsense I've ever read here. And that's saying something!0 -
In or out, we're still Europeans, so good on the Scottish bint.Scott_P said:0 -
If the PM catastrophically loses the confidence of the HoC by breaking their word on the date of an election then why not? Many of their own MPs would be disgusted by such a manoeuver.Chris said:
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?
Can you just clarify that, please?
My basic point is that despite the early election motion being silent on the date, in practice the PM would have to stick to the date they announced before asking parliament to vote on the motion.0 -
Isn't there a saying about a week in politics?anothernick said:
No doubt his power to take any kind of decision would be set out in the agreement he reached with the other parties. And if he didn't stick to it he would be VONC'd PDQ. In practice I think the other parties would VONC him anyway as soon as an A50 extension had been agreed and this would precipitate an election during which purdah rules apply so Corbyn would probably exercise the full powers of PM for only a week or two at most.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?0 -
Indeed, but health tourism, funded by the Barnett Formula is not designed to make the Little Englanders more favourable to the Union...ReggieCide said:In or out, we're still Europeans, so good on the Scottish bint.
0 -
Pulpstar said:
I mean the notional majority count means buttons as there is no discipline on the fringes of all the parties right now anyway.Beibheirli_C said:
Dr Wollaston was already sitting as an independent - or has another Tory defected?Pulpstar said:
That one vote lead is gone anyway.Beibheirli_C said:
O'Mara, Field, Lee, Grieve, Bebb to name a few will vote the way they want to do so on matters regardless of whether or not they're in a party or independent.
0 -
Deselect him tomorrowScott_P said:0 -
@HYUFD will be along shortly to say only grandpa Joe can win in the Midwest...Nigelb said:Interesting - Warren leads in Wisconsin poll:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/457548-warren-leads-field-by-5-points-in-wisconsin-poll
True, it comes very late in the primary cycle, but that is nonetheless a significant result, assuming it's not a rogue poll.
Also a key swing state.0 -
Harman or Clarke would be ideal. They would be infinitely better than the collection of barely sentient idiots we have clowning around Downing St currently.logical_song said:
Not a bad idea. Whoever can get a majority. Ken's retiring at the GE, what about Harman?Scott_P said:1 -
What about Big Englanders - that might do meScott_P said:
Indeed, but health tourism, funded by the Barnett Formula is not designed to make the Little Englanders more favourable to the Union...ReggieCide said:In or out, we're still Europeans, so good on the Scottish bint.
0 -
Yes, it's brilliant, particularly the reliance on the wisdom of Phil Hammond, of all people.Chris said:
How typical of Brexiteers to claim a mandate for No Deal on the basis that - even though they were all lying through their teeth during the referendum campaign - Philip Hammond was truthfully warning people of the very danger we're all facing now!Gardenwalker said:
I was told that was Project FEAR so I dismissed it upon the guidance of Bojo and Banks.ReggieCide said:No mandate for no deal as it was never raised as a possibility pre referendum?
https://youtu.be/zy3fPPuR9_00 -
I really can't believe I'm reading this.williamglenn said:
If the PM catastrophically loses the confidence of the HoC by breaking their word on the date of an election then why not? Many of their own MPs would be disgusted by such a manoeuver.Chris said:
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?
Can you just clarify that, please?
Your sequence of event is this:
(1) There is a 2/3 majority for an early election, which allows Johnson to choose the date of the election
(2) Johnson advises the Queen of a date, and a general election is fixed for that date, but no one bothers to dissolve parliament
(3) There is a vote of no confidence
(4) The Queen asks someone else to form a government.
And there I lose track of it. What do you suppose happens then?
0 -
The Corbyn hot air all seems a little pathetic. In contrast Johnson's pre-electioneering tour of his fiefdom looks impressive. His new video channel which has been foolishly snubbed by the BBC (except Evan Davis) is particularly clever.david_herdson said:
With not that much more than a third of the MPs, if he didn't stick to the script, MPs could either replace him or trigger an election easily enough.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
I think that Johnson's claiming MPs are in the pocket of the EU is gaining traction. I thought the guy had lost his touch, but he really hasn't.0 -
Also, does the Minister for Magic have to meet him if he's only a caretaker?Chris said:
I don't wish to be rude, but I think you're out of your tiny mind.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?0 -
Corbyn has already demonstrated that he is more suited to being PM than the current occupant of the position, by ruling out the chaos of No Deal. If Tories are so intent on clutching at their pearls when they imagine Corbyn at Number 10, they might like to ponder on how they have conspired to make him the sane option.GIN1138 said:
And of course its all about optics. Part of the reason a lot of the public won't vote for Corbyn to be PM is because they just don't "see" him as PM.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?
But if they wake up one morning in the middle of September and there he is standing on the steps of Downing St as PM (after being put there by Parliament itself) then that barrier to voting for him in the publics mind is instantly removed for a lot of people.0 -
This seems to be the crux of the matter - no one knows, no one.Chris said:
I really can't believe I'm reading this.williamglenn said:
If the PM catastrophically loses the confidence of the HoC by breaking their word on the date of an election then why not? Many of their own MPs would be disgusted by such a manoeuver.Chris said:
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?
Can you just clarify that, please?
Your sequence of event is this:
(1) There is a 2/3 majority for an early election, which allows Johnson to choose the date of the election
(2) Johnson advises the Queen of a date, and a general election is fixed for that date, but no one bothers to dissolve parliament
(3) There is a vote of no confidence
(4) The Queen asks someone else to form a government.
And there I lose track of it. What do you suppose happens then?0 -
Well he should be thrown out of the party tomorrow regardless, any Tory MP even considering voting for a Corbyn Premiership is a traitor and does not belong in the partyBig_G_NorthWales said:0 -
That's "insane" surelyOnlyLivingBoy said:
Corbyn has already demonstrated that he is more suited to being PM than the current occupant of the position, by ruling out the chaos of No Deal. If Tories are so intent on clutching at their pearls when they imagine Corbyn at Number 10, they might like to ponder on how they have conspired to make him the sane option.GIN1138 said:
And of course its all about optics. Part of the reason a lot of the public won't vote for Corbyn to be PM is because they just don't "see" him as PM.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?
But if they wake up one morning in the middle of September and there he is standing on the steps of Downing St as PM (after being put there by Parliament itself) then that barrier to voting for him in the publics mind is instantly removed for a lot of people.0 -
They haven't, Boris leads Corbyn as best PM in all the latest pollsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Corbyn has already demonstrated that he is more suited to being PM than the current occupant of the position, by ruling out the chaos of No Deal. If Tories are so intent on clutching at their pearls when they imagine Corbyn at Number 10, they might like to ponder on how they have conspired to make him the sane option.GIN1138 said:
And of course its all about optics. Part of the reason a lot of the public won't vote for Corbyn to be PM is because they just don't "see" him as PM.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?
But if they wake up one morning in the middle of September and there he is standing on the steps of Downing St as PM (after being put there by Parliament itself) then that barrier to voting for him in the publics mind is instantly removed for a lot of people.0 -
The problem is that he has (apart from many other faults!) a long history of anti-europeanism. Since the referendum he has been dragged reluctantly to the point where he grudgingly agrees a further referendum as the price of power. He cannot be trusted on the issue.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, an honesty contest between them would be an unedifying spectacle but I guess you'd have to give it to the man in the red corner.anothernick said:
Corbyn is many things - incompetent, pig headed, inflexible, lacking in judgement etc etc - but lying and untrustworthiness are hard to pin on him - his views have been known, and remained unchanged, for decades and he cannot be compared to Johnson, who has built an entire career on lies.Richard_Tyndall said:
Because like you he is a liar and utterly untrustworthy.Gardenwalker said:
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?Richard_Tyndall said:Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
This is just horse trading over who gets the role of caretaker PM, lets see how things go over the next few weeks.0 -
If stories like this are true, Biden might be out of the race well before such an eventuality;Foxy said:
@HYUFD will be along shortly to say only grandpa Joe can win in the Midwest...Nigelb said:Interesting - Warren leads in Wisconsin poll:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/457548-warren-leads-field-by-5-points-in-wisconsin-poll
True, it comes very late in the primary cycle, but that is nonetheless a significant result, assuming it's not a rogue poll.
Also a key swing state.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457486-biden-allies-float-scaling-back-events-to-limit-gaffes0 -
In the general election yes but I have never disputed Warren can win the Democratic primaries then lose to TrumpFoxy said:
@HYUFD will be along shortly to say only grandpa Joe can win in the Midwest...Nigelb said:Interesting - Warren leads in Wisconsin poll:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/457548-warren-leads-field-by-5-points-in-wisconsin-poll
True, it comes very late in the primary cycle, but that is nonetheless a significant result, assuming it's not a rogue poll.
Also a key swing state.0 -
Makes no difference. You sound panickyHYUFD said:
Well he should be thrown out of the party tomorrow regardless any Tory MP even considering voting for a Corbyn Premiership is a traitor and does not belong in the partyBig_G_NorthWales said:
He is my mp and before you say anything I wrote to the constituency demanding he was deselected 6 months ago. He is very unpopular outside of brexit anyway0 -
Rather worrying to see England's lower order batting quite well.
It rather suggests that the pitch has lost some of its demons.-1 -
You're in one of your obtuse moods again.Chris said:
I really can't believe I'm reading this.williamglenn said:
If the PM catastrophically loses the confidence of the HoC by breaking their word on the date of an election then why not? Many of their own MPs would be disgusted by such a manoeuver.Chris said:
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?
Can you just clarify that, please?
Your sequence of event is this:
(1) There is a 2/3 majority for an early election, which allows Johnson to choose the date of the election
(2) Johnson advises the Queen of a date, and a general election is fixed for that date, but no one bothers to dissolve parliament
(3) There is a vote of no confidence
(4) The Queen asks someone else to form a government.
And there I lose track of it. What do you suppose happens then?
The sequence of events is:
1) Johnson says we need an early election to be held on x
2) Johnson wins 2/3 vote in parliament
3) Because the motion doesn't name a date, he tries to change the proposed date from x to y
4) Political uproar leading to the fall of the government0 -
I am stating an opinion, not commenting on how the public at large view things. The public are way too relaxed about No Deal, generally in inverse proportion to how much they understand about it.HYUFD said:
They haven't, Boris leads Corbyn as best PM in all the latest pollsOnlyLivingBoy said:
Corbyn has already demonstrated that he is more suited to being PM than the current occupant of the position, by ruling out the chaos of No Deal. If Tories are so intent on clutching at their pearls when they imagine Corbyn at Number 10, they might like to ponder on how they have conspired to make him the sane option.GIN1138 said:
And of course its all about optics. Part of the reason a lot of the public won't vote for Corbyn to be PM is because they just don't "see" him as PM.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?
But if they wake up one morning in the middle of September and there he is standing on the steps of Downing St as PM (after being put there by Parliament itself) then that barrier to voting for him in the publics mind is instantly removed for a lot of people.0 -
Insane is what Johnson is doing.ReggieCide said:
That's "insane" surelyOnlyLivingBoy said:
Corbyn has already demonstrated that he is more suited to being PM than the current occupant of the position, by ruling out the chaos of No Deal. If Tories are so intent on clutching at their pearls when they imagine Corbyn at Number 10, they might like to ponder on how they have conspired to make him the sane option.GIN1138 said:
And of course its all about optics. Part of the reason a lot of the public won't vote for Corbyn to be PM is because they just don't "see" him as PM.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
What happens if there is a foreign policy crisis during the period. Would he stand by Clause 5 of the Nato Agreement if, for example, Russia invaded Estonia?
But if they wake up one morning in the middle of September and there he is standing on the steps of Downing St as PM (after being put there by Parliament itself) then that barrier to voting for him in the publics mind is instantly removed for a lot of people.0 -
You asked what "trust" was involved?Chris said:
I don't wish to be rude, but I think you're out of your tiny mind.Charles said:
The trust is that he would stick to his "one job"Chris said:
I don't understand what trust is involved. Corbyn's one job as PM would be to ask for an extension. He could be VONCed at any time, and then there would be an election. Unless the Commons came up with anyone preferable.Nigelb said:
That shows a remarkable degree of trust in Corbyn sticking to the script, in the unlikely event of his persuading a majority of Parliament to give him the nod.Scott_P said:
What would his executive decision about the future our our nuclear arsenal be, for example?
Should he be briefed on national security matters and who would he choose to share that information with?
I gave you an answer. I haven't expressed an opinion at all.
So I don't understand why you need to respond in this fashion at all.
I also find it intriguing that you chose to cut out one of the three examples that I gave. Why would you do that, unless to try and influence how other posters might read the thread in future?0 -
-
You're really over-thinking this. The sequence would be like this:Chris said:
I really can't believe I'm reading this.williamglenn said:
If the PM catastrophically loses the confidence of the HoC by breaking their word on the date of an election then why not? Many of their own MPs would be disgusted by such a manoeuver.Chris said:
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?
Can you just clarify that, please?
Your sequence of event is this:
(1) There is a 2/3 majority for an early election, which allows Johnson to choose the date of the election
(2) Johnson advises the Queen of a date, and a general election is fixed for that date, but no one bothers to dissolve parliament
(3) There is a vote of no confidence
(4) The Queen asks someone else to form a government.
And there I lose track of it. What do you suppose happens then?
1. Boris would meet the Cabinet at about 9:30am on 4th September where they would agree to hold a general election on 10th October.
2. Boris would phone the Queen in Balmoral at about 10:30am to tell her of the decision to hold an election on 10th October.
3. Boris wiould make a speech in Donwing St. at about 11am and tell the public we're going to have an election on 10th October.
4. Boris could present the Bill to Parliament at about 12pm and tell MPs he wants them to agree to have an election on 10th October.
Now after doing all this the idea that after Parliament has voted for the election he'd make the date 1st November is fanciful in the extreme and it's no often I agree with @williamglenn but he's right that if Boris tried that the damage he'd get in the backlash from MPs, Great British Public and HMQ would be severe.1 -
He is ex Plaid and if even you can't stand him BigG shows how awful he isBig_G_NorthWales said:
Makes no difference. You sound panickyHYUFD said:
Well he should be thrown out of the party tomorrow regardless any Tory MP even considering voting for a Corbyn Premiership is a traitor and does not belong in the partyBig_G_NorthWales said:
He is my mp and before you say anything I wrote to the constituency demanding he was deselected 6 months ago. He is very unpopular outside of brexit anyway0 -
Decided to put a little saving bet on Warren. Only 8.5. But I'm green on Biden and Harris, and thought it made sense.0
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He isHYUFD said:
He is ex Plaid and if even you can't stand him BigG shows how awful he isBig_G_NorthWales said:
Makes no difference. You sound panickyHYUFD said:
Well he should be thrown out of the party tomorrow regardless any Tory MP even considering voting for a Corbyn Premiership is a traitor and does not belong in the partyBig_G_NorthWales said:
He is my mp and before you say anything I wrote to the constituency demanding he was deselected 6 months ago. He is very unpopular outside of brexit anyway0 -
Oh! This is not looking good.Nigelb said:
If stories like this are true, Biden might be out of the race well before such an eventuality;Foxy said:
@HYUFD will be along shortly to say only grandpa Joe can win in the Midwest...Nigelb said:Interesting - Warren leads in Wisconsin poll:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/457548-warren-leads-field-by-5-points-in-wisconsin-poll
True, it comes very late in the primary cycle, but that is nonetheless a significant result, assuming it's not a rogue poll.
Also a key swing state.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457486-biden-allies-float-scaling-back-events-to-limit-gaffes0 -
Well, it's nonsensical anyway, because once the 2/3 vote has passed he just has to advise the Queen of the date, so "trying to change" the date doesn't come into it.williamglenn said:
You're in one of your obtuse moods again.Chris said:
I really can't believe I'm reading this.williamglenn said:
If the PM catastrophically loses the confidence of the HoC by breaking their word on the date of an election then why not? Many of their own MPs would be disgusted by such a manoeuver.Chris said:
I'm asking you whether you really think a VONC and the appointment of a different PM could follow a 2/3 vote for an election.williamglenn said:You don't think it's crazy to think that any PM could say, "I've decided we need a general election, to be held on October 10th," then win the 2/3 vote and say, "Gotcha! We're holding the election on November 1st instead"?
Can you just clarify that, please?
Your sequence of event is this:
(1) There is a 2/3 majority for an early election, which allows Johnson to choose the date of the election
(2) Johnson advises the Queen of a date, and a general election is fixed for that date, but no one bothers to dissolve parliament
(3) There is a vote of no confidence
(4) The Queen asks someone else to form a government.
And there I lose track of it. What do you suppose happens then?
The sequence of events is:
1) Johnson says we need an early election to be held on x
2) Johnson wins 2/3 vote in parliament
3) Because the motion doesn't name a date, he tries to change the proposed date from x to y
4) Political uproar leading to the fall of the government
But I'll humour you. Go on. What do you suppose happens next?
A vote of no confidence, you said. And then you think we go into the 14-day period, and you think the Queen asks someone else to form a government.
And then what? If the other person gets a vote of confidence you think the election is off? Or if not they get to tell the Queen a different date?
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