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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Small minds and Brexit. Jeremy Corbyn’s latest gambit

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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    I would just like to say what an awsome afternoon i have had in Belfast. I went to Stormont parliament and the building the way it crowns the hillside projects power! If SeanT was there it would have given him the horn! :wink: I went on a tour of the building and really enjoyed it. Political figures past and present were mentioned and although i did not really learn much new information, it was a real pleasure to be involved a process that enhances political awareness. The buildings from an architectural standpoint are impresive as well throughtout Belfast. I went around Belfast city hall as well and that is stunning inside. I prefer the inside to say Manchester city hall for instance. But Manchester city hall is stunning even though it has a different style. I seem to like political buildings as well as the business inside them.

    I'm going there in a couple of weeks for RSS 2019. I'm really excited, I get to go on a plane and everything! Any recommendations for other things to see?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Two bit numpty with delusions of grandeur after being picked to lead a handful of donkeys
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MrsB said:

    I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*

    VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions

    There's a reason that most chess players don't consider "skipping moves" to be a good strategy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Scott_P said:
    The backtrack begins. Of course if her only objection to Corbyn's plan really is that he can't command a majority, then logically she'd vote for him in the VOC. So now either she does that or exposes her blatant deceit and hypocrisy on no deal Brexit.
    Not been a great day for Swinson, has it?

    Amateur.....
    I look forward to hearing from those who were earlier saying that ruling out working with Corbyn was a brilliant political strategy, on how this reverse ferret is also a brilliant political strategy.
    I'm sure they will!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Scott_P said:
    As predicted earlier... "She can always recant and say she tried, but her back is to the wall and the only hope for NoDeal is to tolerate a Corbyn GNU...."

    http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/2440747/#Comment_2440747
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    Corbyn’s offer is less than it seems. The caretaker government is not there for the purpose of having a referendum with a Remain option. No. It is there for the purpose of a GE and only if Labour win an outright majority will there be a referendum. Believe that and you’ll believe anything. If the Tories won the GE on a No Deal basis you’d be back where we are today. Only this time the No Dealers would have a fresh mandate. Or there could be yet another hung Parliament.
    No, it's exactly what I proposed in my Labour List article last week (and I like to think that I helped prompt it). There is nothing there limiting a referendum to an outright majority - if, as seems likely, we got another hung Parliament, Labour would be committed to a referendum with a Remain option; if enough other MPs agreed, the referendum would follow. Clearly, the Tories might win the alection, but that's democratic risk.

    Swinson's response is pure politics, since she must be aware that organising a second referendum before October 31 is literally impossible. The LibDems seem more interested in scoring points than actually preventing No Deal.
    I reluctantly concur. All the evidence points to the Lib Dems preferring their own advancement rather than preventing No Deal. What a bunch of chancers.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    So why are we releasing the Iranian ship now when one month ago they could not ?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    I think the 'vital supplies' referred to are medicines. So not quite so ridiculous as it sounds.
    Unless something had gone badly wrong, I think we have enough C17s and A400Ms to import vital medicines. Or am I missing something? Genuine question.
    With all the random spaffing going on, I have no idea.

    It could equally be Boris' red wine supply
    What do Boris Johnson, the Duchess of Sussex and a very successful former Manchester United manager have in common? Not much, on the face of it. But they do share a penchant for one thing – red wine. A specific red, to be precise.

    Last week, when Chancellor of the Exchequer Sajid Javid visited the Prime Minister at Chequers, he brought with him "a stash" of Tignanello. If you haven't heard of it, you're not alone. Boris, however, has been a fan for some time.

    During his leadership campaign, he told Politico Playbook: "Someone bought me a crate of Tignanello and I had no idea how expensive it was. I was just glugging it back. It's extraordinary stuff, it was delicious. I discovered later that it was the favourite wine of Meghan Markle. I was so amazed by this wine, I thought, 'What is this stuff?'"


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/meghan-boris-love-special-tignanello-flash-new-wine-status-symbol/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Scott_P said:
    The backtrack begins. Of course if her only objection to Corbyn's plan really is that he can't command a majority, then logically she'd vote for him in the VOC. So now either she does that or exposes her blatant deceit and hypocrisy on no deal Brexit.
    Not been a great day for Swinson, has it?

    Amateur.....
    Rank Amateur and promoted well above her capabilities.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Gabs2 said:

    MrsB said:

    I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*

    VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions

    It is not even correct. A government of national unity means all the main party leaders come together. This is being done to explictly exclude one party. A GRU or governnent of Remainer unity is more accurate.
    If it comes off it could easily contain members from almost every political party. Except perhaps the DUP.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited August 2019
    viewcode said:

    I would just like to say what an awsome afternoon i have had in Belfast. I went to Stormont parliament and the building the way it crowns the hillside projects power! If SeanT was there it would have given him the horn! :wink: I went on a tour of the building and really enjoyed it. Political figures past and present were mentioned and although i did not really learn much new information, it was a real pleasure to be involved a process that enhances political awareness. The buildings from an architectural standpoint are impresive as well throughtout Belfast. I went around Belfast city hall as well and that is stunning inside. I prefer the inside to say Manchester city hall for instance. But Manchester city hall is stunning even though it has a different style. I seem to like political buildings as well as the business inside them.

    I'm going there in a couple of weeks for RSS 2019. I'm really excited, I get to go on a plane and everything! Any recommendations for other things to see?
    Go to the Duke of York pub in "The Entries" near St Anne's Cathedral. If you are feeling cerebral then go to the University, Botanic Gardens and the Ulster Museum (free entry)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    Hoping and getting are two very different things.

    If OTOH she doesn't get reciprocity but still has to pay for it then where are those funds coming from?
    Out of our pocket money
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....

    What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
    You do understand the point but choose not to admit it because it does not suit your agenda.
    I’m thinking you can’t read a graph. Zoom out a bit.
    Unfortunately you missed the bit where I said 'the other week'. I'm thinking you cannot read.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Scott_P said:

    viewcode said:

    Goa, GONU, EU, emu, WA, FTA, EFTA, vonc.

    It's almost poetry...

    Vogon poetry, maybe...
    "...Oh frettled gruntCorbyn, thy mictureSwinsons are to me, as purdled gabbleBorises in a lurgid bee. Grieve! I implore thee..."
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:
    The backtrack begins. Of course if her only objection to Corbyn's plan really is that he can't command a majority, then logically she'd vote for him in the VOC. So now either she does that or exposes her blatant deceit and hypocrisy on no deal Brexit.
    Not been a great day for Swinson, has it?

    Amateur.....
    Rank Amateur and promoted well above her capabilities.
    As Scots have known for 15 years. Bunch of dim wits that put all their eggs in that basket-case.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....

    What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
    You do understand the point but choose not to admit it because it does not suit your agenda.
    I’m thinking you can’t read a graph. Zoom out a bit.
    Unfortunately you missed the bit where I said 'the other week'. I'm thinking you cannot read.
    Clearly you didn’t read my fuller reply downthread.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    We pay plenty for it already.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    The only reason for Swinson to support Corbyn’s plan is if she thinks it will fail. To to criticise her for stating the obvious as evidence that she is happy with no deal is nonsense.

    And consider this - suppose Corbyn’s plan does work out and he becomes PM, has an extension and calls a GE. Either Johnson wins a majority, comes back in and takes us out of the EU without a referendum. Not exactly a triumph. Or we have a hung Parliament in which Corbyn simply stays as PM and refuses to leave . Not exactly a dream scenario.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    How to win friends and influence people......

    https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1161947674888876032?s=21
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.

    Another so-called Unionist who despises the Union.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.

    Another so-called Unionist who despises the Union.
    Please explain?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    alex. said:

    The only reason for Swinson to support Corbyn’s plan is if she thinks it will fail. To to criticise her for stating the obvious as evidence that she is happy with no deal is nonsense.

    And consider this - suppose Corbyn’s plan does work out and he becomes PM, has an extension and calls a GE. Either Johnson wins a majority, comes back in and takes us out of the EU without a referendum. Not exactly a triumph. Or we have a hung Parliament in which Corbyn simply stays as PM and refuses to leave . Not exactly a dream scenario.

    But we will have no No Deal Brexit and possibly a second referendum
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    edited August 2019

    This Government of National Unity stuff. Farce. Making remainer parties look dreadful and chaotic. People don't want grandstanding histrionics, they want stability, and are likely to go for whomever looks likely to deliver it. At the moment No deal with Boris looks like a safer bet than this mess.

    That's a bit like calling in Fred Dibnah because you're fed up with an untidy house.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:

    viewcode said:

    Goa, GONU, EU, emu, WA, FTA, EFTA, vonc.

    It's almost poetry...

    Vogon poetry, maybe...
    "...Oh frettled gruntCorbyn, thy mictureSwinsons are to me, as purdled gabbleBorises in a lurgid bee. Grieve! I implore thee..."
    Not bad. I award you the Paul Neil Milne Johnstone Award for poetry!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited August 2019

    Uh oh, I see vanilla added a new button under our comments. How many things do you think they broke implementing that?

    You'd have thought getting the embed working with Google Chrome again would have been more important than adding a Facebook button...
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    edited August 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    MrsB said:

    I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*

    VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions

    It is not even correct. A government of national unity means all the main party leaders come together. This is being done to explictly exclude one party. A GRU or governnent of Remainer unity is more accurate.
    If it comes off it could easily contain members from almost every political party. Except perhaps the DUP.
    But only from Remainers. Which means its members only come from one side of the biggest political division in the country. I would support it to get an extension, but it is not national unity!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
    The agenda for September 4th I think is set. So Boris ends up with a vote on the 5th and Parliament disappearing on the 6th with an election on October 17th...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    I see drugs deaths in England at record levels, wonder if we will get the same bed wetting on here that we had when Scotland announced same thing.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
    Well that's it. When you nhave an election you roll the dice and see where it lands.

    But nothing else seems viable as far as I can see.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    All the discussion is repeating the same nonsense backin March. When remainers were all over social media gleefully declaring Brexit “dead”. Well, it wasn’t and they are looking pretty silly now. All they’re focussed on now is avoiding Brexit on 31st October. Few are thinking about the situation six months down the line.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
    Lib Dems have no hope of winning anything
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    So why are we releasing the Iranian ship now when one month ago they could not ?

    Because Britain Trump wants a teeny fig leaf of the appearance of independent action as we bend over to receive a good seeing to from America Trump?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....

    What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
    You do understand the point but choose not to admit it because it does not suit your agenda.
    I’m thinking you can’t read a graph. Zoom out a bit.
    Unfortunately you missed the bit where I said 'the other week'. I'm thinking you cannot read.
    Clearly you didn’t read my fuller reply downthread.
    Oh I did, but as it bore no relation to my point which was specifically about the nonsense of last week's panic over a small decline which has now reversed, I saw no point in commenting. Long-term sterling decline has, as you may know, gone on for decades - long before the 2016 referendum. Have a delightful day.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    No. They just want an alternative PM in place first. Which seems sensible.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    I'm worried Bancroft might go big here. He's due a biggish innings and has been batting well for Durham.

    For David Warner:

    ROFLMAOTTCIAAL :joy:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    alex. said:

    Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.

    No Deal is coming
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    How to win friends and influence people......

    https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1161947674888876032?s=21

    If you're going to be rude to someone the least you can do is get the grammar right. I'm delighted to learn that Mr L is a moral highpoint though. Prior evidence had suggested otherwise, but he's put that straight.

    To imagine that I was once afraid that I'd risked too much in opposing CL on Betfair seems inconceivable.

    Labour are in a very strange place. They're not of course alone in that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Gabs2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Gabs2 said:

    MrsB said:

    I think people are confused because Jo Swinson has skipped over a few moves in the chess game by ruling out Corbyn now instead of making general noises in favour of a VONC and GNU.*

    VONC and GNU. God, this is a terrible time for new expressions

    It is not even correct. A government of national unity means all the main party leaders come together. This is being done to explictly exclude one party. A GRU or governnent of Remainer unity is more accurate.
    If it comes off it could easily contain members from almost every political party. Except perhaps the DUP.
    But only from Remainers. Which means its members only come from one side of the biggest political division in the country. I would support it to get an extension, but it is not national unity!
    The minority side at that.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Question - if all Corbyn’s going to do is negotiate an extension and call an election, why does it have to be him leading the “GNU”?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited August 2019
    Incidentally, I see some people have said Swinson has no reason to doubt Corbyn's word on a second referendum. Just to recap, this is a man who:

    Lied about his links with Holocaust deniers and anti semites
    Lied about his part in a memorial service for a terrorist cell, even when confronted with a photograph
    Lied about the number of seats in a train
    Lied about his manifesto costings
    Lied about his plans for student loans
    Lied about his links with East Germany
    Lied to his wives about his girlfriends
    Lied about the reasons for the collapse of his marriage
    Lied about the reasons why he wouldn't talk to Theresa May
    Lied about his reasons for voting down the Withdrawal Agreement.

    Now call me Mr Suspicious, but I'm going to say Swinson has every reason to be doubtful about his integrity.

    True, he is marginally more honest than Johnson. But that's like saying someone has more financial integrity than Allen Stanford.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    edited August 2019
    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.
    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    On topic, this is why an alternative government is doomed to fail. No-one will be able to agree who should lead it. I have severe doubts that Corbyn will step aside for someone else, and there are enough opposition MPs to block Corbyn.

    We are headed for No Deal
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    No, but most left the Labour Party because of Corbyn. The idea they wouldn't block him was always for the birds....
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    viewcode said:

    I would just like to say what an awsome afternoon i have had in Belfast. I went to Stormont parliament and the building the way it crowns the hillside projects power! If SeanT was there it would have given him the horn! :wink: I went on a tour of the building and really enjoyed it. Political figures past and present were mentioned and although i did not really learn much new information, it was a real pleasure to be involved a process that enhances political awareness. The buildings from an architectural standpoint are impresive as well throughtout Belfast. I went around Belfast city hall as well and that is stunning inside. I prefer the inside to say Manchester city hall for instance. But Manchester city hall is stunning even though it has a different style. I seem to like political buildings as well as the business inside them.

    I'm going there in a couple of weeks for RSS 2019. I'm really excited, I get to go on a plane and everything! Any recommendations for other things to see?
    Yes, Giants Causeway is impressive from a geological standpoint! I think Belfast City Council building is worth a look inside and out. You can get guided tours of the city council according to the guy who showed us around Stormont! I got to sit in the chief w hips seat in the stormont debating chamber, which is next to the first ministers seat.. It was bicamaral in its day but unless.i misunderstood, the upper chamber is redundant. I thought it was an afternoon well spent.

    If you are going to NI as an individual, travel cards are worth a look, Translink sell day, weekly and monthly cards. They are zoned so a zone 4 will take you to Giants Causeway, Londonderry (unless i went to the wrong part it was mostly boarded up!) and back to Belfast for £16.50! Given the milege i thought this was good. You have to buy the ilink tickets in advance, i only discovered this a few days in advance but they send them through the post within a couple of days! I like NI and have not experienced a problem given the troubles. I plan to visit Belfast Castle tommorow before i fly back to England. The flight by the way is pretty short and nobody even checked my passport in Belfast International airport! I was straight off the plane and 10 minutes early!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Facebook seems to have invaded PB.

    As long as I can poke people, I'm okay with it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Scott_P said:
    And then there were twenty.


    Or so.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    alex. said:

    Question - if all Corbyn’s going to do is negotiate an extension and call an election, why does it have to be him leading the “GNU”?

    It's not all he's going to do. In fact he'll never do it.

    Corbyn just doesn't care about the EU or Brexit. He'll be a caretaker forever. What Corbyn cares about is revolutionary change in the UK. Robbing the rich and giving to the Labour party, with the poor getting a bit to keep them on-side.

    Actually that mis-characterises him - he just wants to hurt the rich and anyone that's smarter than he is. Unfortunately that means we'll all get hurt.

    Corbyn aligns himself with terrorists and fringe-groups, and anyone that's small in terms of power. He aligns himself with the idiots of this world.

    As you can see I'm a huge fan.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited August 2019
    malcolmg said:

    alex. said:

    Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.

    No Deal is coming
    I think the idea of a VONC in September is insane. It would be a lot easier to let the clock run down until October 7th when with the clock ticking even Boris has admitted defeat and he is not aiming for No Deal or the head of steam is sufficient that a working avoid No Deal plan has been agreed by everyone required.

    And the answer to any request for an election in September is that you could have called that back in July. Get a 2+ month extension to December 31st then we can talk..
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    malcolmg said:

    alex. said:

    Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.

    No Deal is coming
    amusing phrasing :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Omnium said:

    alex. said:

    Question - if all Corbyn’s going to do is negotiate an extension and call an election, why does it have to be him leading the “GNU”?

    It's not all he's going to do. In fact he'll never do it.

    Corbyn just doesn't care about the EU or Brexit. He'll be a caretaker forever. What Corbyn cares about is revolutionary change in the UK. Robbing the rich and giving to the Labour party, with the poor getting a bit to keep them on-side.

    Actually that mis-characterises him - he just wants to hurt the rich and anyone that's smarter than he is. Unfortunately that means we'll all get hurt.

    Corbyn aligns himself with terrorists and fringe-groups, and anyone that's small in terms of power. He aligns himself with the idiots of this world.

    As you can see I'm a huge fan. realist
    FTFY :smiley:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Ditto. What is that button for?

    I think the Scottish approach to Europeans needing the NHS is purely pragmatic. The registration of EU nationals is only 30% complete, and there is no easy way in the meantime to sift those who have been resident for years from temporary tourists. Until the registration is completed, it is a sane bit of No Deal planning.

    I am not convinced by Boris's planes. Medicines and medical equipment are constrainedby customs and regulatory issues, not traffic jams. Not that I expect any, because most lorries won't go until documentation is complete.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited August 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
    Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long, or we could put the boot in and go back to real Black ones.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
    Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long
    But you can have any colour you like in the EU. Go for tartan. Be original.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Hacks not quite as respectful as they used to be.

    https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1162015001147785216?s=20
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
    Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long
    But you can have any colour you like in the EU. Go for tartan. Be original.
    Lots of different tartans though so be a myriad of them , good business for somebody.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    Hacks not quite as respectful as they used to be.

    https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1162015001147785216?s=20

    What an unpleasant man. Is that an actual journalist?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
    It’s fine on an individual level but more challenging when you aggregate. Of course no one denies emergency medicine and acute care, but to have an open door policy on chronic care is a significant financial commitment. I’d rather see that money spent on better education or housing or whatever for taxpayers
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Ditto. What is that button for?

    I think the Scottish approach to Europeans needing the NHS is purely pragmatic. The registration of EU nationals is only 30% complete, and there is no easy way in the meantime to sift those who have been resident for years from temporary tourists. Until the registration is completed, it is a sane bit of No Deal planning.

    I am not convinced by Boris's planes. Medicines and medical equipment are constrainedby customs and regulatory issues, not traffic jams. Not that I expect any, because most lorries won't go until documentation is complete.
    Regulation is not an issue - you just grandfather in all currently EMA approved products
  • eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    alex. said:

    Personally I think the best chance of avoiding nodeal (other than the opposition actually announcing they will support the WA, obviously) is to leave it in Johnson’s hands knowing that his escape route has been taken away and actually having to confront the reality of his rhetoric. And at least force him to confront the thought of his position in history. PM who destroyed the U.K. and imposed the consequences of no deal upon us (whilst having a tiny majority and not being able to achieve anything else anyway). Or the man who was prepared to sacrifice his career but save the country.

    No Deal is coming
    I think the idea of a VONC in September is insane. It would be a lot easier to let the clock run down until October 7th when with the clock ticking even Boris has admitted defeat and he is not aiming for No Deal or the head of steam is sufficient that a working avoid No Deal plan has been agreed by everyone required.

    And the answer to any request for an election in September is that you could have called that back in July. Get a 2+ month extension to December 31st then we can talk..
    No Parliament for six weeks while Brexit plans are put in place? I should coco.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
    It’s fine on an individual level but more challenging when you aggregate. Of course no one denies emergency medicine and acute care, but to have an open door policy on chronic care is a significant financial commitment. I’d rather see that money spent on better education or housing or whatever for taxpayers
    We would not want to be seen to be isolationist , it really is very poor show.
    Scotland wants to be part of Europe.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Hacks not quite as respectful as they used to be.

    https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1162015001147785216?s=20

    Isn’t Steve Bray that full time protestor rather than a hack?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
    Lib Dems have no hope of winning anything
    Not even Orkney & Shetland?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    notme2 said:

    Hacks not quite as respectful as they used to be.

    https://twitter.com/snb19692/status/1162015001147785216?s=20

    What an unpleasant man. Is that an actual journalist?
    She is used to patsies and no questions being asked , you can see the shock in her face at actually being asked a non prepared question. Lights on but no-one in.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Who cares we have hearts we will not refuse sick people treatment.
    It’s fine on an individual level but more challenging when you aggregate. Of course no one denies emergency medicine and acute care, but to have an open door policy on chronic care is a significant financial commitment. I’d rather see that money spent on better education or housing or whatever for taxpayers
    We would not want to be seen to be isolationist , it really is very poor show.
    Scotland wants to be part of Europe.
    Many parts of the EU charge U.K. citizens at present , sometimes with reimbursement via EHIC. asking people to contribute to the cost of their care, either via taxation or directly, is not unreasonable
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    You make a good point that seems to have been missed. This isn't about being a poor leader an anti semite or a Marxist but he's about the flakiest member of Parliament on Brexit there is. While all other parties bust a gut to stop us leaving he was on holiday. We need a leader who is committed

    However what his letter has done is changed the dynamics dramatically. We are no longer looking at Johnson's gimmicks threats and stunts. We are now concentrating on how to put a stop to him and we are now significantly closer


    (*PS Joe Swinson is getting better by the day)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Brom said:

    Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.

    I have said on here previously and repeat again she is an absolute duffer.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Brom said:

    Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.

    Must be a different ch4 interview to the one I watched, you are not an objective commentator nor am I but your view is completely rubbish she handled the interview well and a damn sight better than the labour front bench spokesman that followed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    rcs1000 said:

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
    Lib Dems have no hope of winning anything
    Not even Orkney & Shetland?
    Well you were talking about them being the government, they may end up with similar amount as they have now and perhaps a few more but will be miles and miles from being of any importance.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    For goodness sake, why? Healthcare is not sweeties, you don't dish it out because you like somebody.

    As long as Scottish taxpayers are paying for this largesse....
    Nicola obviosly hoping that this will be reciprocated for Scots people when visiting the EU. Then she'll have another area where you get a better deal being Scottish
    That seems unlikely to happen.
    Typical self seeking unionist me me thinking. Yes it will.
    How do you propose that the EU differentiates between Scots and U.K. citizens?
    Well, if the English are having blue passports, how about the Scots having tartan passports?
    Ydoethur, we will have EU ones so will not be an issue for long, or we could put the boot in and go back to real Black ones.
    The think cardboard passports, like we used to have?

    Sure, but only if the UK wants to leave the IACO which mandates these things.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    This is what I've been saying would happen:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/

    Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.

    "Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.

    This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.

    Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."

    That would be eminently sensible. Should Mr Johnson win handsomly, he has a mandate for No Deal if necessary, and a strong negotiating position. Should Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats win, then the people have spoken, and they want another referendum.

    The big issue is what happens if - say - the Conservatives and the Brexit Party handily outpoll Lab + LD + SNP + PC + G, but have fewer seats.

    Or if there is (again) no majority for any particular outcome.
    Lib Dems have no hope of winning anything
    Not even Orkney & Shetland?
    Well you were talking about them being the government, they may end up with similar amount as they have now and perhaps a few more but will be miles and miles from being of any importance.
    I was sketching the wide range of possible outcomes, from Johnson with a handsome majority, to Swison striding into Downing Street.

  • rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    I've just pressed it on your post-it took me to my FaceAche page to share your post. Is there no way you can bin it off? I prefer to keep my social media from talking to each other, to be honest.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    @malcolmg, and @stewartdickson

    There's an interesting thing here in that Brexit makes Scottish independence harder - you'd be a new country, and yet it makes it easier in terms of you'll get it through.

    I imagine that there might be SNP factions which urge Leave - incite the rebellion, and those that urge Remain - smoothly does it. Is this a thing?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    It takes you to the Facebook login page. Presumably, once you login to your FB account, the PB post you selected is made visible to your FB followers.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited August 2019

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Presumably it's like a "share button" to share posts on your Facebook page.

    You'd have to give permission first though (and probably sign into your FB account) It wouldn't do it just by clicking on the button.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    It says if you log in to FB, you can automatically share or retweet or whatever tf they call it the post in question.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Anyway, sod politics, off to the British Fireworks Championships in Plymouth. The past six winners, going head to head over two nights. Should be a belter!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I'm just waiting for the explination as to why the SNP making the NHS free to use for Europeans post Brexit is really evidence of their small minded xenophobic inward looking destructive nationalism.

    I'm sure the usual suspects are working on the article now.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    It says if you log in to FB, you can automatically share or retweet or whatever tf they call it the post in question.
    It’s gone
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    It says if you log in to FB, you can automatically share or retweet or whatever tf they call it the post in question.
    Why would you want to? I post very little in FB, and certainly I save my awesome punning and cricketing skills for here. Ripped out of context they would be meaningless anyway.

    And now it seems to have disappeared. Has @rcs1000 done something clever or is it a temporary improvement?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    And like that... Facebook was gone? :open_mouth:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    GIN1138 said:

    And like that... Facebook was gone? :open_mouth:

    If only...
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    malcolmg said:

    Brom said:

    Swinson having a car crash interview on Channel 4 news, pretty much caught lying about a personal conversation with Harriet Harman going behind Corbyn's back to become leader. If this is Krishnan taking her to the cleaners imagine what a top class interviewer would do. Really think those on the fence will vote Lib Dem despite not because of her.

    I have said on here previously and repeat again she is an absolute duffer.
    Yep, Davey would not have floundered like that. I just dont think she comes across as a TV natural or someone that upbeat and likeable. Just very negative vibes.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    I'm still unable to read the comments on politicalbetting.com, which is the site I used to use and where the last comment was at the top, etc, etc. As when accessing PB in the last 5-6 years, I'm using a Lenovo laptop with Firefox and Windows 7.

    To read comments, I have to use

    https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7880/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-small-minds-and-brexit-jeremy-corbyn-s-latest-gambit/p6?

    and I notice that if I make a draft comment but decide not to post it, and just delete it, the text is still there if I reload the page or do all sorts of things. It's even there if I come back later and want to post a comment; the old text is at the top of the comment box.

    Private Eye once revealed I think that Facebook spies on users' thoughts by doing this. One can write something on screen, decide not to send it in a message but Facebook knows exactly what was written. If you drafted a message three times, and still didn't send it, FB probably has three sets of text.

    So I'm not at all happy with Vanilla doing the same. It's probably breaching all sorts of UK and EU laws ... but maybe not any US laws as they don't seem to take electronic privacy seriously at all (spam is still legal up to a point).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Alistair said:

    I'm just waiting for the explination as to why the SNP making the NHS free to use for Europeans post Brexit is really evidence of their small minded xenophobic inward looking destructive nationalism.

    I'm sure the usual suspects are working on the article now.

    Have they blocked it off to the English yet...

    ...the way they have with tuition fees?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    geoffw said:

    A 'Brexit election' would not solve the Brexit problem because the issue could not be kept to Brexit in the campaign. For that reason, if it is to go back to the people, it would need to be another referendum.

    HYUFD said:

    'JoSwinson is a Tory' now trending on Twitter

    Twitter is worse than a school playground, and why on earth is Facebook poking in here?
    Agreed. Last thing I want here is to be linked to Facebook. If it somehow links to who I am on Facebook, that will be last time I post on here.
    Vanilla adde the Facebook button. I have no idea what it does, but to play it safe I won't be pressing it.
    It says if you log in to FB, you can automatically share or retweet or whatever tf they call it the post in question.
    So if I don’t press the Facebook button the post doesn’t go there. What happens to the posts quoted. I’m with Mr MM (I think); if my identity is going to be linked on F/B I’m out of here!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    It’s as though President Trump is utterly powerless...

    The news media apparently have the power to crash the economy behind his back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/15/trump-economy-recession-stock-market-media-1464577

    And how is that the criminal HRC still able to run around, able even to arrange the murder of a Presidential friend in the safety of a federal prison ?
This discussion has been closed.