Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
OK, speaking as somebody who teaches Russian and Soviet history, and has studied the Holocaust, I'll ask. In what meaningful ways were they significantly different?
Mr. kinabalu, hmm. It's possible I've genuinely forgotten, as that doesn't ring a bell.
[NB I need to get a spot of work done just now. I will be checking the thread but if I'm a shade slow, that'll be why. If you prefer to message me, or post in the thread, that's cool].
Meanwhile on LibDemVoice: If the party wants to prevent a no-deal Brexit, it is going to have to make a Hobson’s choice – prop up a temporary Corbyn government, so that he seeks an extension to Article 50 and calls a General Election or see Boris Johnson ram through no deal. If we allow a no-deal Brexit to happen because we fail to work with other parties, then we will never be forgiven by the millions of people who voted to Remain and the tens of thousands who have joined us since the referendum. https://www.libdemvoice.org/a-no-deal-brexit-is-irreversible-a-jeremy-corbyn-government-is-not-61739.html
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
The opposition agrees to the election only if BoZo extends Article 50...
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Who killed most - Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
Depends on what you mean by 'killed.' If you mean 'killed directly,' Mao. If you mean 'died as a wider result of events they caused,' Hitler would probably just have the edge.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
The opposition agrees to the election only if BoZo extends Article 50...
If the election is held of 10th Ocotber (21 days before 31st October) why would extension of A50 be an issue unless the Opposition are going into the election expecting to lose?
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Who killed most - Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
Depends on what you mean by 'killed.' If you mean 'killed directly,' Mao. If you mean 'died as a wider result of events they caused,' Hitler would probably just have the edge.
Does that include the deaths caused by the Japanese waging war in the Pacific as events caused by Hitler's doing?
Mr. kinabalu, hmm. It's possible I've genuinely forgotten, as that doesn't ring a bell.
[NB I need to get a spot of work done just now. I will be checking the thread but if I'm a shade slow, that'll be why. If you prefer to message me, or post in the thread, that's cool].
OK. More likely you missed it. Fair enough.
I'll try and do it again - or similar - and post at some point when you're around.
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Who killed most - Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
Depends on what you mean by 'killed.' If you mean 'killed directly,' Mao. If you mean 'died as a wider result of events they caused,' Hitler would probably just have the edge.
Does that include the deaths caused by the Japanese waging war in the Pacific as events caused by Hitler's doing?
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
Maybe you haven't been following the news this time?
There are 17 first class counties - not including Middlesex - who have an average of 20 players on their books.
Out of that, is it really asking too fecking much for you to find six batsman who are just about capable of holding a bat the right way up?
Yeah this England team is rubbish. When's the last time they won anything?
Well the last time THIS England team won anything was last summer against India.
A radically different England team - different captain, different bowlers, different batsman and a different wicket keeper - did win another tournament recently, but it was in hit and giggle not proper cricket.
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Who killed most - Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
Depends on what you mean by 'killed.' If you mean 'killed directly,' Mao. If you mean 'died as a wider result of events they caused,' Hitler would probably just have the edge.
Does that include the deaths caused by the Japanese waging war in the Pacific as events caused by Hitler's doing?
It shouldn't do. Japan's war was in progress before Hitler's and while their strategy might have been informed by events in Europe, the US sanctions on Japanese access to raw materials would likely have produced something of a similar grand strategy even without Hitler (after all, Tokyo had no pressing need to strike the US when it did).
That said, Hitler was in power for a lot less time than either Stalin or Mao.
Mr. kinabalu, hmm. It's possible I've genuinely forgotten, as that doesn't ring a bell.
[NB I need to get a spot of work done just now. I will be checking the thread but if I'm a shade slow, that'll be why. If you prefer to message me, or post in the thread, that's cool].
OK. More likely you missed it. Fair enough.
I'll try and do it again - or similar - and post at some point when you're around.
I shall look for it as well with interest. I have to go off as well now but I am intrigued as to your views on this.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
Labour are not going to be turning down a GE thats true.
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Who killed most - Hitler, Stalin or Mao?
Is that a trick question, and the answer is Churchill?
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
Maybe you haven't been following the news this time?
Why? Has Corbyn announced that he does not believe he can win?
We may not think that The Cult can win, but I am sure The Cult thinks they can win.
It is Corbyn's last shot. He has to try. If he declines the chance then what is the point?
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Hmmmmmmm
It's not even a matter of "jumping into bed" with Corbyn. It's a matter of authorising him to ask the EU for an extension, and then cooperating in the dissolution of parliament so that there can be an election.
Essentially it's just a matter of whether the Lib Dems could be trusted at all when they said they thought Brexit would be so disastrous that the result of the referendum - the referendum that they supported before they knew what the result would be - should be overturned.
If that's how bad any Brexit would be, by implication, a No Deal Brexit would be an absolute catastrophe. But now the Lib Dems tell us that Jeremy Corbyn being prime minister in name only for a few weeks would be even worse.
Perhaps we should just conclude that a No Deal Brexit will be only a mild inconvenience after all, and let Boris Johnson get on with it.
But if it turns out to be a catastrophe, Swinson will have to bear her full share of the responsibility.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
What's wrong with going to the people? I suppose they might give the wrong answer
There are 17 first class counties - not including Middlesex - who have an average of 20 players on their books.
Out of that, is it really asking too fecking much for you to find six batsman who are just about capable of holding a bat the right way up?
Yeah this England team is rubbish. When's the last time they won anything?
Well the last time THIS England team won anything was last summer against India.
A radically different England team - different captain, different bowlers, different batsman and a different wicket keeper - did win another tournament recently, but it was in hit and giggle not proper cricket.
5/7 batsmen are the same as those who won the world cup. I'd suggest they actually might know how to hold a bat the right way up.
Translation: I’ve given up on Scotland and can live with a socialist paradise in England only (and perhaps Wales but if push comes to shove I can live without that as well).
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Yes.
Corbyn is just that toxic.
But some remainer Tories have agreed to talk to him. And the other minor parties have made non-committal responses.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
Maybe you haven't been following the news this time?
Why? Has Corbyn announced that he does not believe he can win?
He's announced he wants to prevent a No Deal Brexit.
Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act there is no mechanism for the Commons to vote for an election on a specified date, as suggested above. The wording of the motion is dictated by the Act - "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election".
The date of the election, if such a motion were passed, would be in the gift of the prime minister. If people weren't aware of that trap before Dominic Cummings started his vapourings, they are now. Except for the employees of the Spectator, apparently.
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Yes.
Corbyn is just that toxic.
But some remainer Tories have agreed to talk to him. And the other minor parties have made non-committal responses.
Those remainer Tories would do anything to remain in the EU at this point.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
I think that that is a slight overstatement. But it has been a much better day for Sterling.
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Yes.
Corbyn is just that toxic.
But some remainer Tories have agreed to talk to him. And the other minor parties have made non-committal responses.
Those remainer Tories would do anything to remain in the EU at this point.
Certainly, I understand their position. I thought the Lib Dems shared it, but it seems not.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Yes.
Corbyn is just that toxic.
But some remainer Tories have agreed to talk to him. And the other minor parties have made non-committal responses.
Those remainer Tories would do anything to remain in the EU at this point.
Real patriots, a bit like those patriots who proposed a Franco-British Union in 1940.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
No, it hasn't. Still another 1.5 cents to go before it gets back to pre-Boris levels.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
What do you want the news to say? Sterling is below where it was a month ago.
Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?
Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?
I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.
Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.
I have to break it to you that MD is not one to give up a trope lightly, even after it's been taken round the block repeatedly.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
No, it hasn't. Still another 1.5 cents to go before it gets back to pre-Boris levels.
The extreme Brexiteers seem to be adopting a strategy of just making stuff up these days. Particularly about the exchange rate. It seems pretty stupid, because everyone has access to data about the exchange rate. Yet only a few days ago somebody posted completely false figures about the change in the value of sterling over the last ten years, as though they expected everyone to swallow them without even checking.
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Hmmmmmmm
Come on, Cameron very obviously had no ego, so no problemo.
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
I think that that is a slight overstatement. But it has been a much better day for Sterling.
Probably a reaction to Corbyn's "stop Brexit" offer. Whoever thought the prospect of a Corbyn premiership would be positive for sterling....
Meanwhile on LibDemVoice: If the party wants to prevent a no-deal Brexit, it is going to have to make a Hobson’s choice – prop up a temporary Corbyn government, so that he seeks an extension to Article 50 and calls a General Election or see Boris Johnson ram through no deal. If we allow a no-deal Brexit to happen because we fail to work with other parties, then we will never be forgiven by the millions of people who voted to Remain and the tens of thousands who have joined us since the referendum. https://www.libdemvoice.org/a-no-deal-brexit-is-irreversible-a-jeremy-corbyn-government-is-not-61739.html
Surely this is a judgement on the best chance of getting a majority in the House. How many Tories would accept Corbyn as PM versus how many would accept anybody else as PM?
I note - alone on here - that sterling has recovered all of its losses from the other week against the Euro. Interestingly it does not feature at all on any of the news channels or among the myriad of people on here who were so worried when its decline was heralded as the ruination of all foreign holidays as well as forcing elderly Brits in Europe back to blighty pronto. Funny that....
Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?
Is there any prospect of them attracting one? Would they want to? A large union, frustrated with JC and the threat to its members from No Deal, moving allegiance would be a game-changer, IMHO.
I await a slew of responses explaining why this is a non-starter!
Do the lib dems show any sign of caring about organised labour?
They seem to be profiting greatly from Disorganised Labour!
Is there any prospect of them attracting one? Would they want to? A large union, frustrated with JC and the threat to its members from No Deal, moving allegiance would be a game-changer, IMHO.
I await a slew of responses explaining why this is a non-starter!
Do the lib dems show any sign of caring about organised labour?
Well, they've just rejected working with disorganised Labour. Does that count?
So are we to conclude that that the Lib Dems were happy to jump into bed with Cameron and Osborne (and IDS) and impose austerity, tuition fees and Universal Credit but jumping into bed with Corbyn to stop Brexit is impossible under any circumstances.
Hmmmmmmm
It's not even a matter of "jumping into bed" with Corbyn. It's a matter of authorising him to ask the EU for an extension, and then cooperating in the dissolution of parliament so that there can be an election.
Essentially it's just a matter of whether the Lib Dems could be trusted at all when they said they thought Brexit would be so disastrous that the result of the referendum - the referendum that they supported before they knew what the result would be - should be overturned.
If that's how bad any Brexit would be, by implication, a No Deal Brexit would be an absolute catastrophe. But now the Lib Dems tell us that Jeremy Corbyn being prime minister in name only for a few weeks would be even worse.
Perhaps we should just conclude that a No Deal Brexit will be only a mild inconvenience after all, and let Boris Johnson get on with it.
But if it turns out to be a catastrophe, Swinson will have to bear her full share of the responsibility.
Swinson made to look like a liar as well as weak caving into Chukka.
Meanwhile on LibDemVoice: If the party wants to prevent a no-deal Brexit, it is going to have to make a Hobson’s choice – prop up a temporary Corbyn government, so that he seeks an extension to Article 50 and calls a General Election or see Boris Johnson ram through no deal. If we allow a no-deal Brexit to happen because we fail to work with other parties, then we will never be forgiven by the millions of people who voted to Remain and the tens of thousands who have joined us since the referendum. https://www.libdemvoice.org/a-no-deal-brexit-is-irreversible-a-jeremy-corbyn-government-is-not-61739.html
Surely this is a judgement on the best chance of getting a majority in the House. How many Tories would accept Corbyn as PM versus how many would accept anybody else as PM?
If Swinson had been concerned about the reaction of Tory MPs, wouldn't it have been wiser to try to gauge that reaction first, rather than publicly attacking the proposal immediately?
Swinson needs to think again.With some in her own party, the SNP, Greens,conservatives willing to consider Corbyn's proposal to stop no deal.She is trashing the stop no deal brand.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
Maybe you haven't been following the news this time?
Why? Has Corbyn announced that he does not believe he can win?
He's announced he wants to prevent a No Deal Brexit.
Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act there is no mechanism for the Commons to vote for an election on a specified date, as suggested above. The wording of the motion is dictated by the Act - "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election".
The date of the election, if such a motion were passed, would be in the gift of the prime minister. If people weren't aware of that trap before Dominic Cummings started his vapourings, they are now. Except for the employees of the Spectator, apparently.
Before Boris presents the bill to Parliament he will almost certainly make a speech in Downing St. naming 10th October as the day of the election (he will probably do the courtesy of informing the Queen as well I'd think)
Now after doing all that he could do an about turn and make the election for 1st November once the bill is passed but of course he wouldn't in practice...
When the Prime Minister tells the general public we'll have an election on 10th October he's not going to go back on that.
You seem somewhat paranoid about Boris if I may say so?
Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Johnson and Corbyn would both be very happy to expel anyone voting against their own party whip in a vote of confidence, people don’t seem to realise this.
Once a VoNC is caried then it is totally different. Voting for an emergency PM with support from all sides would not be political suicide.
For many MPs allowing No Deal will be political suicide.
No it isn’t, that’s the whole point.
Boris Johnson remains leader of the Conservative Party, and Jeremy Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party.
Anyone who votes against their party whip in a vote of confidence can be expected to lose the whip, deselected at the next election and probably be expelled from the party.
Dominic Grieve might be okay with that, but I don’t think 200 current Con and Lab MPs will be.
Corbyn’s made it quite clear today, that’s either he’s the next PM or we have an election (on a date of Boris Johnson’s choosing).
Corbyn is quite happy for Brexit to happen in six weeks’ time with no deal, he’s never been a supporter of the EU and thinks he can benefit from an election at a time of considerable pressure on the government.
I repeat the words of Wes Streeting Labour MP "The overriding priority for every Member of Parliament who doesn’t want to see [no-deal] happen, which is a clear majority of the House of Commons, must be preventing this outcome."
If Corbyn is not the next PM he will be powerless to prevent a GoNU with another PM forming.
Which is fine, but Mr Streeting is a Labour MP at Mr Corbyn’s discretion.
If sh!t goes down, then he won’t be a Labour candidate at the next election.
Swinson needs to think again.With some in her own party, the SNP, Greens,conservatives willing to consider Corbyn's proposal to stop no deal.She is trashing the stop no deal brand.
Bollox to stopping Brexit
Not quite the same attraction with voters methinks.
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
Well if you get triggered by a Soviet flag then wait until see what a former Tory leader did with the Soviets.
The difference between working with Stalin to defeat Hitler and working with Corbyn to stop No Deal is that Stalin wanted to defeat Hitler.
Och, I don't know, 1939-41 could be described as a period of Corbynite constructive ambiguity.
Britain didn't work with him then!
And the jury's still out as to whether Stalin wanted to defeat Hitler until the very real possibility of Hitler defeating him. I'd accept that Corbyn & co are still in a 'Brexit an opportunity rather than a threat' phase, but that may change.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10. ...
Which would require a 2/3 majority! Has the author read the FTPA?
Labour were compliant enough last time. They agreed in a heartbeat.
Maybe you haven't been following the news this time?
Why? Has Corbyn announced that he does not believe he can win?
He's announced he wants to prevent a No Deal Brexit.
Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act there is no mechanism for the Commons to vote for an election on a specified date, as suggested above. The wording of the motion is dictated by the Act - "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election".
The date of the election, if such a motion were passed, would be in the gift of the prime minister. If people weren't aware of that trap before Dominic Cummings started his vapourings, they are now. Except for the employees of the Spectator, apparently.
Before Boris presents the bill to Parliament he will almost certainly make a speech in Downing St. naming 10th October as the day of the election (he will probably do the courtesy of informing the Queen as well I'd think)
Now after doing all that he could do an about turn and make the election for 1st November once the bill is passed but of course he wouldn't in practice...
When the Prime Minister tells the general public we'll have an election on 10th October he's not going to go back on that.
You seem somewhat paranoid about Boris if I may say so?
I'm not paranoid. I just don't think anyone in their right mind would trust him an inch.
Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?
Swinson needs to think again.With some in her own party, the SNP, Greens,conservatives willing to consider Corbyn's proposal to stop no deal.She is trashing the stop no deal brand.
Bollox to stopping Brexit
Not quite the same attraction with voters methinks.
Agreed. If May when PM could bring herself and the government to discuss a deal with Corbyn and Labour, for weeks. Why can't Swinson ?
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.
Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?
Because like you he is a liar and utterly untrustworthy.
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
But he would have to get this through the Commons with 433 MPs voting for. That is far from certain given that this would look lie a device to avoid the Commons
Such a motion - specifying a date - would have no effect under the FTPA. The motion has to be simply "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election."
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
To be fair, May announced the date of the 8th of June before the vote in parliament. There's no chance Johnson could get a 2/3rds majority to give him a blank cheque to name a date afterwards.
Unfortunately, there's no mechanism for the Commons to stipulate the date of the election, so a 2/3 vote for an election would in fact and in law give him the power to choose the date.
Agreed, but there would be an immense political cost to naming a date and then postponing it after the vote. Plus the government could simply be VoNCed if they did that.
Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?
Maybe cause he voted against such a deal three times.
Unfortunatly this article perpetuates the myth thst the aim of an extension is to prevent No Deal. It is not. It is to allow Remainers more time to try and reverse the Brexit vote. My preferencecwss for a deal and a soft Brexit. But given the antics of Remainers over the past three years I have run out of patience and will accept whatever sort of Brexit we can get.
Corbyn is suggesting a soft Brexit and a deal so why won’t you get behind him?
Because like you he is a liar and utterly untrustworthy.
So quick to rage and abuse, Tyndall. Did someone take a dump in your archaeology pit?
Swinson needs to think again.With some in her own party, the SNP, Greens,conservatives willing to consider Corbyn's proposal to stop no deal.She is trashing the stop no deal brand.
Bollox to stopping Brexit
Not quite the same attraction with voters methinks.
Agreed. If May when PM could bring herself and the government to discuss a deal with Corbyn and Labour, for weeks. Why can't Swinson ?
I was told that was Project FEAR so I dismissed it upon the guidance of Bojo and Banks.
How typical of Brexiteers to claim a mandate for No Deal on the basis that - even though they were all lying through their teeth during the referendum campaign - Philip Hammond was truthfully warning people of the very danger we're all facing now!
Comments
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/why-october-10th-is-boris-johnsons-best-bet-for-a-snap-election/
Boris does a Theresa and calls a general election on the day Parliament returns on 4th September.
"Johnson, however, can pre-empt such manoeuvres on September 4 when Parliament returns by tabling a motion for an early general election, to be held on October 10.
This date is opportune for two reasons. First, Parliament would dissolve by law on September 5. This immediately eliminates the threat of MPs taking control of parliamentary time, keeping the exit date of October 31 intact.
Second, this election date comes a week before the EU Council summit. If his gamble pays off and he were to win a majority, the PM would have the strong negotiating position required to obtain a new deal. If the EU still refuses to budge, the Government could spend the final weeks passing relevant no-deal legislation to minimise disruption before Britain leaves the EU."
[NB I need to get a spot of work done just now. I will be checking the thread but if I'm a shade slow, that'll be why. If you prefer to message me, or post in the thread, that's cool].
If the party wants to prevent a no-deal Brexit, it is going to have to make a Hobson’s choice – prop up a temporary Corbyn government, so that he seeks an extension to Article 50 and calls a General Election or see Boris Johnson ram through no deal.
If we allow a no-deal Brexit to happen because we fail to work with other parties, then we will never be forgiven by the millions of people who voted to Remain and the tens of thousands who have joined us since the referendum.
https://www.libdemvoice.org/a-no-deal-brexit-is-irreversible-a-jeremy-corbyn-government-is-not-61739.html
Yet he still won every battle he fought.
I'll try and do it again - or similar - and post at some point when you're around.
Hmmmmmmm
Corbyn is just that toxic.
A radically different England team - different captain, different bowlers, different batsman and a different wicket keeper - did win another tournament recently, but it was in hit and giggle not proper cricket.
That said, Hitler was in power for a lot less time than either Stalin or Mao.
We may not think that The Cult can win, but I am sure The Cult thinks they can win.
It is Corbyn's last shot. He has to try. If he declines the chance then what is the point?
Essentially it's just a matter of whether the Lib Dems could be trusted at all when they said they thought Brexit would be so disastrous that the result of the referendum - the referendum that they supported before they knew what the result would be - should be overturned.
If that's how bad any Brexit would be, by implication, a No Deal Brexit would be an absolute catastrophe. But now the Lib Dems tell us that Jeremy Corbyn being prime minister in name only for a few weeks would be even worse.
Perhaps we should just conclude that a No Deal Brexit will be only a mild inconvenience after all, and let Boris Johnson get on with it.
But if it turns out to be a catastrophe, Swinson will have to bear her full share of the responsibility.
I'd suggest they actually might know how to hold a bat the right way up.
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1162008599478116357
https://twitter.com/AaronBell80/status/1162009427446247424
Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act there is no mechanism for the Commons to vote for an election on a specified date, as suggested above. The wording of the motion is dictated by the Act - "That there shall be an early parliamentary general election".
The date of the election, if such a motion were passed, would be in the gift of the prime minister. If people weren't aware of that trap before Dominic Cummings started his vapourings, they are now. Except for the employees of the Spectator, apparently.
Edit: actually a few, but only one who is indubitably in power.
If we laymen are aware of the terms of the FTPA, why isn't Mr Alexander Pelling-Bruce of the Spectator? Do they not allow him Internet access at work for some reason?
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1161976351731138560
Welcome back to Labour Remainers.
Now after doing all that he could do an about turn and make the election for 1st November once the bill is passed but of course he wouldn't in practice...
When the Prime Minister tells the general public we'll have an election on 10th October he's not going to go back on that.
You seem somewhat paranoid about Boris if I may say so?
Rejoiners
Stay outers ?
Have you been taking coaching from Vaughan ?
If sh!t goes down, then he won’t be a Labour candidate at the next election.
Not quite the same attraction with voters methinks.
https://youtu.be/zy3fPPuR9_0
Claims "bigger fraud than Enron"
If May when PM could bring herself and the government to discuss a deal with Corbyn and Labour, for weeks.
Why can't Swinson ?
They said it would not happen.
GE forecast from one of the less used sources
https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/08/15/what-would-happen-at-ge2019-if-it-is-more-like-the-2019-european-election-than-the-last-general-election/
Did someone take a dump in your archaeology pit?
Weak weak weak if true.