So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
Yes, we could get a GNU with Not Corbyn as PM. This is unlikely but possible. But that GNU could not deliver Ref2. All it could do is extend Art 50 to allow a GE.
And for Brexit to be stopped (via Ref2) that GE must put the only feasible alternative to Boris Johnson into Number 10. A chap by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.
Stopping Brexit means PM Jezza. There is no way around this.
Again - sorry.
Not so. The most likely outcome, other than a Bozo win, is a balanced parliament in which the remain parties command a majority. I’d expect it most unlikely that JC would emerge as PM from such a scenario.
Why? The most likely scenario is that Labour is still by some way the largest party in such a remain party majority. So why should Corbyn move, to be replaced by somebody dictated by their electoral opponents?
Because otherwise they don't have to vote for him.
It has happened before that the leader of a minor party (or no party) has been made PM in an emergency as a compromise. It happened in 1940, 1916, and 1852 (when Russell and Palmerston couldn't agree which of them should be PM and settled on Aberdeen as a compromise).
Probably missing something in your argument here but Churchill was a Conservative Cabinet member before becoming PM in 1940 and Lloyd George also a very senior Liberal in 1916; neither was in a minority or no party.
You've misunderstood what I wrote, although with hindsight it wasn't clear. I meant 'people who were leaders of a minor party, or not leaders of any party at all.'
Right, I see. All this talk about who should lead this unsavory temporary government of all the minorities is rapidly shifting me back to Johnson, albeit that he himself has to (seek to) call an election early next month with polling day pre October 31st. Would save an awful lot of trouble.
I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.
How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.
For the record, Corbyn is a Brexiteer of many years standing. He heads a party that has been taken over by Federasts, but there is no evidence to suggest that he has changed his views.
He wants to take over after a no-deal exit that comes with political chaos in its wake. So the last thing he wants is to take over now and sort out the mess. Hence his letter which he must know that the minor parties will not accept and which will rally to Tories to Boris. So, his aim is to make sure that the vote of no-confidence which he has to table will be won by the government.
OK, back to political betting posts, please.
Congratulations on your 23rd contribution to the site.
Most of the below discussion is very pertinent to the question of who is the next PM. If any of the long shot options - Clarke, Lucas, Hermon, etc. - came in, they would be very good bets at current odds.
I never realised that "unity" is a synonym for "professional liars manoeuvering in the hope of achieving their desired aim while others compromise around them". One learns.
I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.
How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.
Putting aside the fact that this appears to be your 23rd comment here, I would suggest the bit in italics is actually very clear about potential bets. And @AlastairMeeks is usually very assiduous in doing that.
I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.
How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.
Putting aside the fact that this appears to be your 23rd comment here, I would suggest the bit in italics is actually very clear about potential bets. And @AlastairMeeks is usually very assiduous in doing that.
Yes, bizarre comment. Meeks isn't shy in making tips. Maybe the poster didn't read all the way down.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Johnson and Corbyn would both be very happy to expel anyone voting against their own party whip in a vote of confidence, people don’t seem to realise this.
Once a VoNC is caried then it is totally different. Voting for an emergency PM with support from all sides would not be political suicide.
For many MPs allowing No Deal will be political suicide.
I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.
How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.
Putting aside the fact that this appears to be your 23rd comment here, I would suggest the bit in italics is actually very clear about potential bets. And @AlastairMeeks is usually very assiduous in doing that.
Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?
Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?
I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.
How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.
For the record, Corbyn is a Brexiteer of many years standing. He heads a party that has been taken over by Federasts, but there is no evidence to suggest that he has changed his views.
He wants to take over after a no-deal exit that comes with political chaos in its wake. So the last thing he wants is to take over now and sort out the mess. Hence his letter which he must know that the minor parties will not accept and which will rally to Tories to Boris. So, his aim is to make sure that the vote of no-confidence which he has to table will be won by the government.
OK, back to political betting posts, please.
Congratulations on your 23rd contribution to the site.
It looks like his last comment 2 years ago also used the word "federasts" so at least he's consistent.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
OK, readers of this site don't go for Corbyn, by and large, but this article reeks of anti-Corbyn feeling wrapped up in wishful thinking, and so do many of the comments below it. But the issue soon to confront everyone (who cares about it) is how to prevent Johnson leading the lemmings over a no-deal cliff, and Corbyn's time-limited proposal is the only available way to stop that. Wirh maybe a tweak or two, Corbyn's proposal will carry, is my bet.
I have been reading this site for quite a few years, but this is my first comment here and hopefully my last. Thanks to PB I made a few bob betting on dear old Donald Trump and I read PB as an aid to my flutters.
How is this piece aiding the political betting of anyone? You may be all in favour of Corbyn or you may hate his guts but all I want from a political betting site are ideas about placing political bets.
For the record, Corbyn is a Brexiteer of many years standing. He heads a party that has been taken over by Federasts, but there is no evidence to suggest that he has changed his views.
He wants to take over after a no-deal exit that comes with political chaos in its wake. So the last thing he wants is to take over now and sort out the mess. Hence his letter which he must know that the minor parties will not accept and which will rally to Tories to Boris. So, his aim is to make sure that the vote of no-confidence which he has to table will be won by the government.
OK, back to political betting posts, please.
Congratulations on your 23rd contribution to the site.
It looks like his last comment 2 years ago also used the word "federasts" so at least he's consistent.
What is a federast? It is somebody who only buggers Martin Selmayr?
I never realised that "unity" is a synonym for "professional liars manoeuvering in the hope of achieving their desired aim while others compromise around them". One learns.
Unity actually means 50% +1 in the current context.
I never realised that "unity" is a synonym for "professional liars manoeuvering in the hope of achieving their desired aim while others compromise around them". One learns.
Unity actually means 50% +1 in the current context.
If "[t]he possibilities are therefore unthreatening leaders of minor parties or clapped-out grandees", might I suggest we look to the traditional home of unthreatening clapped-out grandees: the Lords?
Tempting though it is for any number of reasons to suggest Michael Heseltine, if we're restricting ourselves to Labour peers, who better than that pro-European, deal-making ex-Brussels Commissioner, Peter Mandelson? (OK, only joking - semi-serious option on the same logic: Kinnock).
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)
If he resigned from the Tory party, and committed not to stand at the impending GE, might that be enough for Labour? Even then, probably not. And that's why the GNU isn't going to happen...
If "[t]he possibilities are therefore unthreatening leaders of minor parties or clapped-out grandees", might I suggest we look to the traditional home of unthreatening clapped-out grandees: the Lords?
Tempting though it is for any number of reasons to suggest Michael Heseltine, if we're restricting ourselves to Labour peers, who better than that pro-European, deal-making ex-Brussels Commissioner, Peter Mandelson? (OK, only joking - semi-serious option on the same logic: Kinnock).
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)
No way does that 19% stick with Brexit Party if it results in Swinson PM dsimantling Brexit. Just, no way. You'd end up with Brexit Party candidates saying "don't vote for me - vote Tory". At least half would peel off.
I'd like to see some polling of that 19% on the question "If voting for the Brexit Party would result in a Prime Minister who would prevent Brexit, would you change your vote? If so, to which Party?"
I suspect that the Tories already have that polling in their back pocket.
Yes I'm sure you're right. I'd be interested to know if any of the people answering the poll were saying Brexit Party to exert influence while having no intention of actually voting for them. And at the other end of the scale, there must be a chunk of those 19% who don't even support Brexit and are making the oft made mistake of thinking no deal means no Brexit.
But Jezza is only promising a ref if he wins a majority in a GE.
So that ain’t happening.
Jezza can see we are leaving - this is just a fig leaf for the post Brexit election.
It could be that he is hoping for a Tory No Deal and a GE after that. But this doesn't matter. If we get a GE before Brexit, the Labour manifesto is going to have Ref2. No doubt about that.
Then if they are largest party, he as PM will have to deliver it in return for the backing of LD and SNP. Thus the fig leaf falls and what is revealed is ... the only feasible path to No Brexit.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)
Really? I wouldn't have thought he was your type.
I've laid nearly everyone who's anyone in Westminster. Across a variety of markets, natürlich.
The point of this preliminary flirting is to get as many Tories as possible into bed. The swiping right has started. JC was swiftly dismissed. Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman next to see if the punters get hard. This will continue until Parliament re-assembles. Either a consensus or not will emerge. Which was why Corbyn's letter and Swinson's response were vital first moves. Want a bit on the side Tories? Don't worry, it won't be Jezza. Wouldn't be surprised if hadn't been co-ordinated.
Seems like Tory remainers are taking a much more measured approach than the Bollocks to Brexit party.
It does seem that way. Swinson is more against Corbyn than preventing no deal under any circumstances. Which feeds into, the Tory little helpers tag. In contrast the Lucas response to Corbyn was spot on.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.
I never realised that "unity" is a synonym for "professional liars manoeuvering in the hope of achieving their desired aim while others compromise around them". One learns.
Unity actually means 50% +1 in the current context.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
Grieve isn't actually a terrible shout (though I have laid him!)
Really? I wouldn't have thought he was your type.
I've laid nearly everyone who's anyone in Westminster. Across a variety of markets, natürlich.
Wow.
Even Lloyd George didn't have that sort of energy.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Johnson and Corbyn would both be very happy to expel anyone voting against their own party whip in a vote of confidence, people don’t seem to realise this.
Once a VoNC is caried then it is totally different. Voting for an emergency PM with support from all sides would not be political suicide.
For many MPs allowing No Deal will be political suicide.
No it isn’t, that’s the whole point.
Boris Johnson remains leader of the Conservative Party, and Jeremy Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party.
Anyone who votes against their party whip in a vote of confidence can be expected to lose the whip, deselected at the next election and probably be expelled from the party.
Dominic Grieve might be okay with that, but I don’t think 200 current Con and Lab MPs will be.
Corbyn’s made it quite clear today, that’s either he’s the next PM or we have an election (on a date of Boris Johnson’s choosing).
Corbyn is quite happy for Brexit to happen in six weeks’ time with no deal, he’s never been a supporter of the EU and thinks he can benefit from an election at a time of considerable pressure on the government.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.
I have met Liz Saville-Roberts. Have you?
I never suggested she should be PM. I just pointed out that only 4 Years in Parliament is not a good reason to exclude someone.
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
Yes, we could get a GNU with Not Corbyn as PM. This is unlikely but possible. But that GNU could not deliver Ref2. All it could do is extend Art 50 to allow a GE.
And for Brexit to be stopped (via Ref2) that GE must put the only feasible alternative to Boris Johnson into Number 10. A chap by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.
Stopping Brexit means PM Jezza. There is no way around this.
Again - sorry.
Not so. The most likely outcome, other than a Bozo win, is a balanced parliament in which the remain parties command a majority. I’d expect it most unlikely that JC would emerge as PM from such a scenario.
Why? The most likely scenario is that Labour is still by some way the largest party in such a remain party majority. So why should Corbyn move, to be replaced by somebody dictated by their electoral opponents?
Because otherwise they don't have to vote for him.
It has happened before that the leader of a minor party (or no party) has been made PM in an emergency as a compromise. It happened in 1940, 1916, and 1852 (when Russell and Palmerston couldn't agree which of them should be PM and settled on Aberdeen as a compromise).
Probably missing something in your argument here but Churchill was a Conservative Cabinet member before becoming PM in 1940 and Lloyd George also a very senior Liberal in 1916; neither was in a minority or no party.
You've misunderstood what I wrote, although with hindsight it wasn't clear. I meant 'people who were leaders of a minor party, or not leaders of any party at all.'
Right, I see. All this talk about who should lead this unsavory temporary government of all the minorities is rapidly shifting me back to Johnson, albeit that he himself has to (seek to) call an election early next month with polling day pre October 31st. Would save an awful lot of trouble.
At this stage, can he be trusted to call an election pre Oct 31st? I'd argue not...
The point of this preliminary flirting is to get as many Tories as possible into bed. The swiping right has started. JC was swiftly dismissed. Ken Clarke and Harriet Harman next to see if the punters get hard. This will continue until Parliament re-assembles. Either a consensus or not will emerge. Which was why Corbyn's letter and Swinson's response were vital first moves. Want a bit on the side Tories? Don't worry, it won't be Jezza. Wouldn't be surprised if hadn't been co-ordinated.
I thought that but most would think it beyond them to coordinate it.
Cummins may well have his number for the series now, was working him over hard with the short stuff before the dismissal. I note the Aussies finally have a fielder who seems able to catch too !
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.
I have met Liz Saville-Roberts. Have you?
I never suggested she should be PM. I just pointed out that only 4 Years in Parliament is not a good reason to exclude someone.
It is not a good reason to exclude someone. but the header by Meeks describes her as an "experienced politician".
I don't think Liz Saville-Roberts can legitimately be described as an "experienced politician".
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
Cummins may well have his number for the series now, was working him over hard with the short stuff before the dismissal. I note the Aussies finally have a fielder who seems able to catch too !
If Paine keeps dropping easy chances and conceding innumerable byes, Bancroft may find himself keeping wicket before too long.
Cummins may well have his number for the series now, was working him over hard with the short stuff before the dismissal. I note the Aussies finally have a fielder who seems able to catch too !
If Paine keeps dropping easy chances and conceding innumerable byes, Bancroft may find himself keeping wicket before too long.
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
She didn't all her time as a minister from 1997-2010. She was removed from government in 1998 and returned as solicitor general (not a minister) in 2001, serving until 2005.
Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?
Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?
I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.
Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.
Cummins may well have his number for the series now, was working him over hard with the short stuff before the dismissal. I note the Aussies finally have a fielder who seems able to catch too !
If Paine keeps dropping easy chances and conceding innumerable byes, Bancroft may find himself keeping wicket before too long.
Who will report to Steve Smith as captain ?
I don't think there's a market yet, but if there was I would be inclined to bet on Travis Head as next Australia captain. I can't see Paine staying much longer and Smith still has a year's ban to serve. Meanwhile Head is quietly and unassumingly batting brilliantly and serving thanklessly as the vice captain.
Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?
Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?
I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.
Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.
Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?
Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?
I explained at some length, when you said this last time, why it is highly inappropriate to liken Corbyn to a Nazi sympathizer.
Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.
Read MD post again he’s not saying that corbyn is a nazi sympathizer but the opposite
Translation: I’ve given up on Scotland and can live with a socialist paradise in England only (and perhaps Wales but if push comes to shove I can live without that as well).
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Johnson and Corbyn would both be very happy to expel anyone voting against their own party whip in a vote of confidence, people don’t seem to realise this.
Once a VoNC is caried then it is totally different. Voting for an emergency PM with support from all sides would not be political suicide.
For many MPs allowing No Deal will be political suicide.
No it isn’t, that’s the whole point.
Boris Johnson remains leader of the Conservative Party, and Jeremy Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party.
Anyone who votes against their party whip in a vote of confidence can be expected to lose the whip, deselected at the next election and probably be expelled from the party.
Dominic Grieve might be okay with that, but I don’t think 200 current Con and Lab MPs will be.
Corbyn’s made it quite clear today, that’s either he’s the next PM or we have an election (on a date of Boris Johnson’s choosing).
Corbyn is quite happy for Brexit to happen in six weeks’ time with no deal, he’s never been a supporter of the EU and thinks he can benefit from an election at a time of considerable pressure on the government.
I repeat the words of Wes Streeting Labour MP "The overriding priority for every Member of Parliament who doesn’t want to see [no-deal] happen, which is a clear majority of the House of Commons, must be preventing this outcome."
If Corbyn is not the next PM he will be powerless to prevent a GoNU with another PM forming.
So, if Johnson and Corbyn are both opposed to a proposed government of “unity” (sic), where do the proposers get 200 defectors from the two largest parties for their majority in a vote of confidence.
I could just about see a couple of dozen MPs willing to commit almost certain career suicide over Brexit, but there’s no chance of a couple of hundred doing so.
Indeed. The thread reads like a Remainer fantasy, with ever more absurd & fantastic people being proposed for a GONU. (Liz Saville Roberts -- she has only been in Parliament for 4 years!)
Cameron had only been in Parliament for four years when he became LOTO, and LOTO should be prepared to become PM at short notice.
True, however Blair had a comfortable majority when Cameron became Tory leader and the prospects of an early snap election - certainly within Cameron's first year as LotO - were slim.
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
Yes, sorry I meant to put 'at senior levels'. Shadow cabinet stuff is all very nice but I'd have thought someone with a bit more experience running stuff in govt would be desired.
My daughter, who takes a somewhat different view to me on matters of Brexit, sent me this:
"I'm not saying that there wasn't a democratic mandate for brexit at the time. I'm just saying that if I narrowly decided to order fish in a restaurant that was known for chicken, but said it was happy to offer fish, and so far I've been waiting 3 hours, and two chefs who promised to cook the fish have quit, and the third one is promising to deliver the fish in the next five minutes whether it is cooked or not, or indeed still alive,and all the waiting staff have spent the last few hours arguing amongst themselves about whether I wanted battered cod, grilled salmon, jellied eels or dolphin kebabs, and if large parts of the restaurant appeared to be on fire but no one was paying any attention to it because they were all arguing about fish, I would quite like, just once, to be asked if I definitely still wanted fish."
I thought some on here might appreciate it. Even as a leaver I thought it was bloody funny.
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
Yes, sorry I meant to put 'at senior levels'. Shadow cabinet stuff is all very nice but I'd have thought someone with a bit more experience running stuff in govt would be desired.
I never realised that "unity" is a synonym for "professional liars manoeuvering in the hope of achieving their desired aim while others compromise around them". One learns.
Unity actually means 50% +1 in the current context.
GOMOO not GONU
MOO? Please explain.
It was correctly pointed out several days back that national unity is unachievable right now, whether Brexit happens or not, and the simple fact is that an alternative government simply needed to be a Government Of a Majority Of One.
Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
Yes, sorry I meant to put 'at senior levels'. Shadow cabinet stuff is all very nice but I'd have thought someone with a bit more experience running stuff in govt would be desired.
Deleted as inaccurate.
Hey, steady on. Don't want too much of that sort of thing.
Translation: I’ve given up on Scotland and can live with a socialist paradise in England only (and perhaps Wales but if push comes to shove I can live without that as well).
So, in other words, it seems that Corbyn is an English Nationalist just like some of the Tory party? Maybe he should cross the chamber...
O/T EMU UPDATE: the search for the missing North Caroline emu continues; meanwhile he now has 5000 Facebook friends and features in a local County advertising campaign.
Mr. Eagles, thank you for reinforcing my point about your lack of historical understanding. No wonder you think Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?
It has to be someone who a majority of MPs think is experienced and competent to be PM (not necessarily great, but able to deal with another emergency should one occur whilst in temporary charge) and who demonstrably has no axe to grind in terms of wanting the job long term.
Corbyn is neither of those - even a fair number of his own MPs severely doubt his competence.
Realistically - as Swinson has said - hard to see past Harman or Clarke.
Clarke is a stretch given they need so many Labour votes. Harman has limited experience of government. John Prescott has the govt experience (and has previously spoken out in support of Jezza i think?)
Yes, sorry I meant to put 'at senior levels'. Shadow cabinet stuff is all very nice but I'd have thought someone with a bit more experience running stuff in govt would be desired.
Not sure a putative Harman government would have a long term aim to run very much.
Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?
Mr. Rentool, if a Conservative attended a rally where people had swastikas galore and some banners of Hitler, Eichmann, and Heydrich, would you shrug it off?
Mr. Eagles, thank you for reinforcing my point about your lack of historical understanding. No wonder you think Caesar was a better general than Hannibal.
What would happen to poster who suggested that both of those were inferior to the Duke of Goa?
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
"marching below the banner" = attending the same rally as someone with a daft banner
I've been on a march where there were SWP placards, plus those of the Lib Dems. Doesn't make me one of either.
Naturally all the wild smears against Corbyn are going to go into overdrive at a time like this.
How many accusations could be made against Boris Johnson with more justification? My God, his great grandfather was actually an official of the anti-semitic Ottoman Empire!
If "[t]he possibilities are therefore unthreatening leaders of minor parties or clapped-out grandees", might I suggest we look to the traditional home of unthreatening clapped-out grandees: the Lords?
Tempting though it is for any number of reasons to suggest Michael Heseltine, if we're restricting ourselves to Labour peers, who better than that pro-European, deal-making ex-Brussels Commissioner, Peter Mandelson? (OK, only joking - semi-serious option on the same logic: Kinnock).
Much as I loathe the oily Mandelson, he is a more professional politician than any of the current party leaders.
But surely the Labourites would slay their first-born before they agree to the Prince of Darrkness taking charge?
Mr. kinabalu, you can explain whatever you please. It doesn't justify a senior politician marching below the banner of mass murderers.
I didn't seek to justify that. I explained to you why it is deeply inappropriate to draw an equivalence between hard left political views (offensive as one may find them) and the Nazi ideology of Adolf Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Mr. Doethur, I'd be interested in hearing the case for the Duke of Goa.
Mr. Eagles, I didn't vote for a campaign. I voted to leave the EU for reasons I've made plain here many times (happy to repeat if you've forgotten, though I'd be surprised given how active we both are here).
Mr. Rentool, Boris Johnson is an imbecile, and unfit to be in Cabinet let alone leader of the nation. That doesn't make Corbyn anything other than a far left wretch.
Comments
Almost all MPs are now thinking, "There is a GE coming, feck, will I survive?"
Their absolute best bet for survival is to stick with their party. There will be minimal dissenters.
A handful of maniacs like Grieve may want to die in a ditch for the EU. Most don't.
Most of the below discussion is very pertinent to the question of who is the next PM. If any of the long shot options - Clarke, Lucas, Hermon, etc. - came in, they would be very good bets at current odds.
But England haven't much batting to come. I'm hoping Archer feasted on our bowlers last week to good effect and got his eye in.
For many MPs allowing No Deal will be political suicide.
Corbyn remains a far left wretch. Would you put into power someone who happily marches beneath Hitler banners? Whose right hand man openly describes himself as a fascist?
Then why contemplate it for Stalin and Marxist, the far left equivalents?
What are you doing here?
Tempting though it is for any number of reasons to suggest Michael Heseltine, if we're restricting ourselves to Labour peers, who better than that pro-European, deal-making ex-Brussels Commissioner, Peter Mandelson? (OK, only joking - semi-serious option on the same logic: Kinnock).
If he resigned from the Tory party, and committed not to stand at the impending GE, might that be enough for Labour? Even then, probably not. And that's why the GNU isn't going to happen...
Then if they are largest party, he as PM will have to deliver it in return for the backing of LD and SNP. Thus the fig leaf falls and what is revealed is ... the only feasible path to No Brexit.
Which is PM Corbyn.
but not at 25-1
This will continue until Parliament re-assembles. Either a consensus or not will emerge.
Which was why Corbyn's letter and Swinson's response were vital first moves. Want a bit on the side Tories? Don't worry, it won't be Jezza.
Wouldn't be surprised if hadn't been co-ordinated.
Swinson is more against Corbyn than preventing no deal under any circumstances.
Which feeds into, the Tory little helpers tag.
In contrast the Lucas response to Corbyn was spot on.
Even Lloyd George didn't have that sort of energy.
Boris Johnson remains leader of the Conservative Party, and Jeremy Corbyn remains leader of the Labour Party.
Anyone who votes against their party whip in a vote of confidence can be expected to lose the whip, deselected at the next election and probably be expelled from the party.
Dominic Grieve might be okay with that, but I don’t think 200 current Con and Lab MPs will be.
Corbyn’s made it quite clear today, that’s either he’s the next PM or we have an election (on a date of Boris Johnson’s choosing).
Corbyn is quite happy for Brexit to happen in six weeks’ time with no deal, he’s never been a supporter of the EU and thinks he can benefit from an election at a time of considerable pressure on the government.
England will be pretty lucky to make 200 here.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/how-to-make-sense-of-jeremy-corbyns-pitch-to-remainers/
I buy this argument. Only a politician steeped in Marxist thinking would have the patience to pursue it.
I don't think Liz Saville-Roberts can legitimately be described as an "experienced politician".
Shadow Cabinet posts 2010-15
Ministerial posts 1997-2010
Shadow Cabinet posts 1992-97
(Source Wikipedia)
I do not call that "limited experience"
Disappointed, therefore, to see it make another outing.
"The overriding priority for every Member of Parliament who doesn’t want to see [no-deal] happen, which is a clear majority of the House of Commons, must be preventing this outcome."
If Corbyn is not the next PM he will be powerless to prevent a GoNU with another PM forming.
I've been on a march where there were SWP placards, plus those of the Lib Dems. Doesn't make me one of either.
Shadow cabinet stuff is all very nice but I'd have thought someone with a bit more experience running stuff in govt would be desired.
"I'm not saying that there wasn't a democratic mandate for brexit at the time. I'm just saying that if I narrowly decided to order fish in a restaurant that was known for chicken, but said it was happy to offer fish, and so far I've been waiting 3 hours, and two chefs who promised to cook the fish have quit, and the third one is promising to deliver the fish in the next five minutes whether it is cooked or not, or indeed still alive,and all the waiting staff have spent the last few hours arguing amongst themselves about whether I wanted battered cod, grilled salmon, jellied eels or dolphin kebabs, and if large parts of the restaurant appeared to be on fire but no one was paying any attention to it because they were all arguing about fish, I would quite like, just once, to be asked if I definitely still wanted fish."
I thought some on here might appreciate it. Even as a leaver I thought it was bloody funny.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1161922601561853952?s=21
He does not want to alienate either side I guess, so another Brexit balancing act coming up for him?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-kashmir-britain-idUSKCN1V51AL?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5d5563326f0c9700014b378d&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
There are 17 first class counties - not including Middlesex - who have an average of 20 players on their books.
Out of that, is it really asking too fecking much for you to find six batsman who are just about capable of holding a bat the right way up?
https://twitter.com/syd_viciously/status/872616086348353536
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1162000736559013889
Trouble in the yellow peril...
Which is 'frothy' in the extreme.
If not, the comparison's not valid.
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/ArchiveSteam/asmisc02/Dsc_1000.jpg
A campaign the other front man said went too far in whipping up Islamophobic fears.
Did I say 200? If they get to 150 they'll have done well.
Time for Bairstow to make way for Foakes and Buttler or Roy for Sibley.
How many accusations could be made against Boris Johnson with more justification? My God, his great grandfather was actually an official of the anti-semitic Ottoman Empire!
But surely the Labourites would slay their first-born before they agree to the Prince of Darrkness taking charge?
1) Brexit
2) The Grand Poobah at the ECB who thought scheduling The Ashes 17 days after the World Cup final was a good idea.
And I thought you had processed and understood. Hence the disappointment.
Mr. Eagles, I didn't vote for a campaign. I voted to leave the EU for reasons I've made plain here many times (happy to repeat if you've forgotten, though I'd be surprised given how active we both are here).
Mr. Rentool, Boris Johnson is an imbecile, and unfit to be in Cabinet let alone leader of the nation. That doesn't make Corbyn anything other than a far left wretch.