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Steve Baker making his upset/betrayed/angry/if only the little people had listened to me/ hard man face* on the backbenches looks very dangerous to me. The one good thing about the Johnson government so far was that the Brexit flank was totally secured and bought in.
No longer
*all faces indistinguishable to the naked eye....0 -
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...0 -
Corbyn apologists have had much practice.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
0 -
FPT
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it?viewcode said:
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so onSunil_Prasannan said:
The UK is not a "State"!StuartDickson said:
The UK is a state
Kerala is a State
Texas is a State
Bavaria is a State
The UK is a UN member, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...
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That doesn't contradict what I saidSunil_Prasannan said:FPT
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it?viewcode said:
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so onSunil_Prasannan said:
The UK is not a "State"!StuartDickson said:
The UK is a state
Kerala is a State
Texas is a State
Bavaria is a State
The UK is a UN member, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...0 -
They're going to get a lot more...Nigelb said:
Corbyn apologists have had much practice.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
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Hopefully, for Boris, this is just confined to Baker’s vanity. But if it transpires that the ERG are unwavering malcontents and trouble makers, whoever the leader happens to be, then Boris Is probably stuffed.tpfkar said:Steve Baker making his upset/betrayed/angry/if only the little people had listened to me/ hard man face* on the backbenches looks very dangerous to me. The one good thing about the Johnson government so far was that the Brexit flank was totally secured and bought in.
No longer
*all faces indistinguishable to the naked eye....
0 -
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job.
She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.0 -
Is the Republic of Ireland a state? Because if you look at Irish legislation, government publications and customary political discourse you’ll see that the Irish certainly think so.Sunil_Prasannan said:FPT
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it?viewcode said:
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so onSunil_Prasannan said:
The UK is not a "State"!StuartDickson said:
The UK is a state
Kerala is a State
Texas is a State
Bavaria is a State
The UK is a UN member, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...0 -
Agree with this. A VONC right now simply serves to push wavering Tories back into Bori's arms. They need a plausible reason if some of them are going to cross the floor for a VONC, and Boris is still peddling his "alright on the night, land of milk and honey" stuff. They need something more concrete like him deciding to prorogue parliament etcrkrkrk said:
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job.
She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.0 -
I’m not a Corbyn fan , he’s clueless most of the time but there was zip chance of it winning . The anti no dealers have already said they will give Johnson time to see if he can get a deal .viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
The optics of Bozo winning a VONC now wouldn’t be good because the press will make a meal of it and it would embolden the no dealers .
Some Tories will not go in the lobby with the opposition unless they’ve exhausted everything else .
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If there was a vonc right now the govt would probably win it by single figures perhaps 5 or 7. Not sure how that strengthens Boris, it probably strengthens the Tory anti no dealers if anyone. Agree it wouldnt do much for Corbyn but that is not the same as strengthening the PM.0
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I am not entirely convinced by that to be honest. Failing to get a VNOC paseed now would not have prevented Corbyn trying again in September! Thatcher made several unsuccessful attempts at this in 1977/78 - and eventually succeeded. As it is, he could - at worst - expect to get much closer now than back in January - with four Tories now on the Opposition benches and two new Labour MPs. I suspect also that Lady Hermon would be much less inclined to support Boris Johnson than she was to help out Theresa May. Some signs that Alan Duncan might support such a vote. It would be pretty tight - single figures.eek said:There is a risk at the moment when calling a VONC that the Tory parties retort with let's have an election then....
While calling one is the sensible thing to do and essential it really needs to be delayed until Parliament returns after the Party Conferences when the chance of an election before October 31st has past...0 -
There is no such thing as the "right moment". As the opposition you can keep needling and there's no harm in Boris winning a VONC. Callaghan won 5, he still lost the 6th and that is all anybody remembers. Its like Corbyn's old friends in the IRA used to say "we only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky every time".rkrkrk said:
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job.
She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.0 -
I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.kinabalu said:You hate the notion of a Corbyn government. Hate it even more than No Deal under Johnson.
Yet you say you wish fervently that Corbyn would shape up and bring this Tory government down.
This does not scan. Not without a convoluted insincere explanation anyway.0 -
Kent and Essex taking a real pasting this evening,0
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We do live in strange times. A post by Mr Thompson that I am in full agreement with!Philip_Thompson said:
There is no such thing as the "right moment". As the opposition you can keep needling and there's no harm in Boris winning a VONC. Callaghan won 5, he still lost the 6th and that is all anybody remembers. Its like Corbyn's old friends in the IRA used to say "we only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky every time".rkrkrk said:
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job.
She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.0 -
People are missing a key fact .
The opposition needs to be seen to not boxing anti no deal Tories in . You need some goodwill .
Tory MPs have already said they want to wait to see if a deal could be done . Labour pushing this now loses some goodwill .
It’s not a minor matter to no confidence your own government , it’s career ending unless they have winnable seats by moving to the Lib Dems .
People have to get real , a VONC is a very hard thing to win even in the current climate .Tory MPs need to feel it would succeed before sacrificing their careers .1 -
Might miss our part of East London. Heard several rumbles earlier around 6.30 but that storm was slightly further west. No significant rain so far.IanB2 said:Kent and Essex taking a real pasting this evening,
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Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.0 -
Point taken. Those expounding our close ties to Canada or Australia are all WASPS, not BME Britons., and curiously they do not express the same affinity with Barbados or Jamaica.SandyRentool said:I have recently returned from a trip to Canada. From my experience staying with Wor Lass's family I can confirm that they speak the same language over there as over here. Punjabi.
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The US is the same entity as the UN? Or Different? I is confused!viewcode said:
That doesn't contradict what I saidSunil_Prasannan said:FPT
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it?viewcode said:
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so onSunil_Prasannan said:
The UK is not a "State"!StuartDickson said:
The UK is a state
Kerala is a State
Texas is a State
Bavaria is a State
The UK is a UN member, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...0 -
I think we have more in common with Barbados and Jamaica than we do some EU nations, like Romania which we were discussing earlier. More likely to see cricket being played in Kingston than Bucharest.Foxy said:
Point taken. Those expounding our close ties to Canada or Australia are all WASPS, not BME Britons., and curiously they do not express the same affinity with Barbados or Jamaica.SandyRentool said:I have recently returned from a trip to Canada. From my experience staying with Wor Lass's family I can confirm that they speak the same language over there as over here. Punjabi.
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Excellent piece Ms @Cyclefree. Corbyn should have announced today that he’ll be calling a vote of confidence every week until he wins one!
With the majority well under a handful, an organised opposition can make daily life a nightmare for the government, stop ministers travelling and have the whips constantly tied up trying to get everyone in Parliament at the right time.
Corbyn, of course, doesn’t care. He would much prefer to be in opposition than in government, and he wants us to leave the EU while appearing to have nothing to do with the decision.0 -
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.0 -
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https://twitter.com/Maomentum_/status/1153628285215137792Sandpit said:Excellent piece Ms @Cyclefree. Corbyn should have announced today that he’ll be calling a vote of confidence every week until he wins one!
With the majority well under a handful, an organised opposition can make daily life a nightmare for the government, stop ministers travelling and have the whips constantly tied up trying to get everyone in Parliament at the right time.
Corbyn, of course, doesn’t care. He would much prefer to be in opposition than in government, and he wants us to leave the EU while appearing to have nothing to do with the decision.0 -
Omg that’s great trolling ! Please make it happen !Scott_P said:0 -
If you had a VoNC now then Johnson would have to defend himself in public on the floor of the House of Commons. He would probably end up making some promises to "wavering Tory MPs" that would be hostages to fortune. And then when the next VonC hits he will have broken or contradicted those promises and given them a bigger reason to go through with it.0
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So you would rather see a hard left Labour leader who was massively effective and thus would be a shoo in for PM after the next election?Cyclefree said:I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.0 -
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
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I don’t think that they could cope with me.Peter_the_Punter said:
You go too far, Meeks. A week in ConHome for you, my lad.AlastairMeeks said:Dinner:
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That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.0 -
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga0 -
Evening all
"Storms to the left of us, storms to the right" but not a drop of rain here in East Ham. A wall of dark cloud to the east and the worst of the rain currently in Suffolk heading north but more storms into the eastern half of Kent as well. Plenty more still to come developing over Normandy and heading NNE.
Politics - every new PM gets a good start. They are new, different and often strike the confident and optimistic tone their predecessor themselves started with and lost on the journey. The EU has predictably failed to play ball initially but there's time yet or at least the anti-No Deal elements still adhering to Boris would be hoping.
The crunch will come when we find out just how far Conservatives opposed to a No Deal exit on 31/10 will go. The ball is in their court and there are, I believe, enough of them to frustrate the ardent pro-No Deal fraternity now in the ascendancy.0 -
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.0 -
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.0 -
Yes. i find that if I sit on my arse and do nothing, good stuff magically appears on my lap. It's surprising how often that happens....dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism. 0 -
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
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Big G, I offer this as evidence.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/489288006827016192?s=200 -
As am I.rpjs said:
We do live in strange times. A post by Mr Thompson that I am in full agreement with!Philip_Thompson said:
There is no such thing as the "right moment". As the opposition you can keep needling and there's no harm in Boris winning a VONC. Callaghan won 5, he still lost the 6th and that is all anybody remembers. Its like Corbyn's old friends in the IRA used to say "we only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky every time".rkrkrk said:
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.viewcode said:
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"nico67 said:Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job.
She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.0 -
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.twistedfirestopper3 said:
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.0 -
VoNC against Johnson before Oct 31st. If it leads to an election he will be on TV constantly saying the peoples will have been stopped, etc, etc. He will galvanise leavers to vote for him because they have been cheated. Whereas Lab, Lib Dems will be fighting for the remainer vote.
Corbyn wants a no deal Brexit and then to force a VoNC.0 -
I don't think the last 30 hours or so can be described as Boris sitting on his arse doing nothing.viewcode said:
Yes. i find that if I sit on my arse and do nothing, good stuff magically appears on my lap. It's surprising how often that happens....dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
He's been quite bombastic and active with effectively a new government in place already.
Mandy Rice Davies applies to what the EU is saying today, but how they think and what they say in the next six weeks can vary.0 -
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.0 -
"There has been speculation in Westminster that Steve Baker was upset that he wasn’t offered a more senior role – perhaps including a seat at the cabinet table. Baker has himself indicated he felt the position he was offered would leave him powerless."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/jul/25/boris-johnson-new-cabinet-prime-minister-chairs-first-cabinet-as-critics-say-party-now-fully-taken-over-by-hard-right-live-news0 -
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.kinabalu said:
So you would rather see a hard left Labour leader who was massively effective and thus would be a shoo in for PM after the next election?Cyclefree said:I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.0 -
It would strengthen Boris only because Corbyn would prove himself yet again conspicuously incapable of presenting a credible case against a sitting target.noneoftheabove said:If there was a vonc right now the govt would probably win it by single figures perhaps 5 or 7. Not sure how that strengthens Boris, it probably strengthens the Tory anti no dealers if anyone. Agree it wouldnt do much for Corbyn but that is not the same as strengthening the PM.
As Cyclefree rightly points out, persistent forensic questioning would eventually prove awkward for the blond bluffer.0 -
For all my concerns over Boris he made an impressive start today.Philip_Thompson said:
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform1 -
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga0 -
-
justin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
I sort of agree, but at 70 odd grand plus expenses, I want a bit more graft out of them. I've got a shed that wants painting, maybe Nicky Morgan could lend a hand now the sun is out?Richard_Tyndall said:
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.twistedfirestopper3 said:
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.0 -
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
0 -
The Fuhrer inspired many people after taking office on 30th January 1933.Nigelb said:
It would strengthen Boris only because Corbyn would prove himself yet again conspicuously incapable of presenting a credible case against a sitting target.noneoftheabove said:If there was a vonc right now the govt would probably win it by single figures perhaps 5 or 7. Not sure how that strengthens Boris, it probably strengthens the Tory anti no dealers if anyone. Agree it wouldnt do much for Corbyn but that is not the same as strengthening the PM.
As Cyclefree rightly points out, persistent forensic questioning would eventually prove awkward for the blond bluffer.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sunil060902/sandboxFoxy said:
Point taken. Those expounding our close ties to Canada or Australia are all WASPS, not BME Britons., and curiously they do not express the same affinity with Barbados or Jamaica.SandyRentool said:I have recently returned from a trip to Canada. From my experience staying with Wor Lass's family I can confirm that they speak the same language over there as over here. Punjabi.
0 -
Next PM material for metwistedfirestopper3 said:
Big G, I offer this as evidence.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/489288006827016192?s=200 -
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".0 -
Obviously I am a strong Brexit supporter and would be very upset if Brexit were thwarted. But that doesn't change the fact that everything you have written on this is correct. For our system to work properly it needs an opposition that opposes - on principle - so that those who do not agree with Government policy get a voice in Parliament.Cyclefree said:
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.kinabalu said:
So you would rather see a hard left Labour leader who was massively effective and thus would be a shoo in for PM after the next election?Cyclefree said:I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
A weak opposition leads to poor governance because the Government needs to be held to account and needs to be challenged continuously on its plans. Corbyn clearly fails to do that.1 -
We have never had a Conservative Party I have had less confidence in. Yet I have never been more certain to vote Conservative. Because Labour has never been more horrifying.
Interestingly, the share of the Conservative vote in my lifetime has been an lmost total mirror image of how left-wiing the Labour Party has been.
Arguably it doesn't really matter what the Conservative Party do - people vote for it out of fear of the other lot. I don't think the converse is exactly true.0 -
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now0 -
I am not the least bit rattled as a committed abstainer next time- though thoroughly appalled. Many Tories agree with me - indeed from your previous comments I thought you might be one such person yourself.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
0 -
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
0 -
Very possible but last word 'Dead' ?Foxy said:
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga0 -
Hence the attraction of the Lib Dems.Cookie said:We have never had a Conservative Party I have had less confidence in. Yet I have never been more certain to vote Conservative. Because Labour has never been more horrifying.
Interestingly, the share of the Conservative vote in my lifetime has been an lmost total mirror image of how left-wiing the Labour Party has been.
Arguably it doesn't really matter what the Conservative Party do - people vote for it out of fear of the other lot. I don't think the converse is exactly true.
0 -
I'm glad. It was quite how I expected him to perform.Big_G_NorthWales said:
For all my concerns over Boris he made an impressive start today.Philip_Thompson said:
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform
Hopefully he can be in charge for many years to come and can win back doubters like Mr Nabavi.0 -
Just like in late April 2010!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now0 -
Even though she couldn't be arsed to find out what her remit was? Isn't Boris accused of not knowing the details? I know Fire and Rescue doesn't make any money and you only care about us when you need us, but she could have saved herself a bit of early embarrassment.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Next PM material for metwistedfirestopper3 said:
Big G, I offer this as evidence.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/489288006827016192?s=200 -
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".0 -
What were you expecting ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
For all my concerns over Boris he made an impressive start today.Philip_Thompson said:
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform
It was pretty well exactly what I expected.
0 -
No I do not agree with your description of anyone being a lower form of lifejustin124 said:
I am not the least bit rattled as a committed abstainer next time- though thoroughly appalled. Many Tories agree with me - indeed from your previous comments I thought you might be one such person yourself.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
0 -
All Souls Day . Mexicans in particular take it very seriously , they go to the graves of loved ones and sit and share a meal .Big_G_NorthWales said:
Very possible but last word 'Dead' ?Foxy said:
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
0 -
For longterm Tories like yourself it may well be the choice - but left of centre voters are unlikely to show much faith in the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now0 -
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.AlastairMeeks said:
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".0 -
I'd offer the thought the first few days are the "honeymoon" for any new leader and it's very easy to be taken in (if you want to be) by the style more than the substance.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Next PM material for me
As I said earlier, Boris will always outpoint Corbyn in terms of charisma and style - he's younger and barnstorming is his style along with an excellent command of language. Corbyn is more softly spoken and diffident but get past the style and the bombast and get to the content. There was nothing of substance in Boris's comments - it was a Conference speech delivered in the Commons, all bombast and pomp or as someone once said "full of sound and fury signifying nothing".
Boris isn't May - that's why he got elected (well, that and a Com Res poll) and Conservatives always enjoy a good evisceration of Labour but there's a country to be governed and enormous fundamental decisions to be taken and all the grandstanding doesn't hide that fact.
Boris doesn't impress me, convince me or fool me but I recognise his intellect and above all his desire for self-advancement. He's not a Brexiteer but a Boriseer as I said earlier and he'll throw anyone and everyone under the bus (including the Union) to secure his own personal agenda and that includes every single member of his Cabinet.
More than that, he'll tell you and everyone else exactly what he thinks you want to hear - that's what a populist does. Compare and contrast with Margaret Thatcher who often said things people didn't want to hear but she said them because she knew they were right and we needed to be convinced. Boris lacks that strength however much some may see him in her image.0 -
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.AlastairMeeks said:
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".0 -
That mostly raises the question of who is stupid enough in that company to pay £1,000 an hour to hear the opinions of a halfwit.Scott_P said:0 -
nico67 said:
All Souls Day following All Saints Day Mexicans in particular take it very seriously , they go to the graves of loved ones and sit and share a meal .Big_G_NorthWales said:
Very possible but last word 'Dead' ?Foxy said:
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga0 -
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.justin124 said:
Just like in late April 2010!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
0 -
Been catching up with my Sky news.
Doesn't sound like Barnier and Juncker are interested in re-opening the WA and therefore the EU wants a no-deal Brexit.
Think the tories might have picked the right man for the job to steer us through what will be a bumpy ride.
Halloween No-deal Brexit now Nailed On
Stock up on your canned goods.
And Team PB EU be prepared for egg on your faces when it's really not all that bad at all.0 -
Apart from those that dislike Hawaiian pizza. Sub-human scum, the lot of them.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No I do not agree with your description of anyone being a lower form of lifejustin124 said:
I am not the least bit rattled as a committed abstainer next time- though thoroughly appalled. Many Tories agree with me - indeed from your previous comments I thought you might be one such person yourself.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
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If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my supportNigelb said:
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them0 -
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr MeeksAlastairMeeks said:
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.AlastairMeeks said:
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".0 -
I get the rationale for not pushing it to a VONC just yet. You've got to wait till the No Deal is looming and people - the Tory rebels primarily - are down to nothing to lose status.
The only problem appears to be that the window to get this right in appears to be incredibly tight. If Parliament comes back from recess and isn't thinking about it in the first couple of days back then they're going to miss the window, so I can only presume everyone is hoping it'll be obvious or not from the summer recess.0 -
... of concentrating on a large number of seats in the SE and SW where they are a realistic challenge to the Tories and where cheesed off remainers could allow them to derive the Tories of their majority."HYUFD said:If Corbyn Labour are not careful Swinson's LDs will end up leading to the opposition to Boris' Tories instead
Just finishing off the sentence for you.0 -
To be fair on Nicky, she wont be on holiday as ministers will have work to do in the next 6 weeks.twistedfirestopper3 said:justin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
I sort of agree, but at 70 odd grand plus expenses, I want a bit more graft out of them. I've got a shed that wants painting, maybe Nicky Morgan could lend a hand now the sun is out?Richard_Tyndall said:
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.twistedfirestopper3 said:
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.dixiedean said:Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics.
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
Best wishes to Mrs TFS, Glenfield Breast Unit are a well run dept. I would trust them with Mrs Foxy.0 -
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.Richard_Tyndall said:
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr MeeksAlastairMeeks said:
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.AlastairMeeks said:
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".0 -
Labour was more exposed then after 13 years in Government - much more on the defensive.Nigelb said:
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.justin124 said:
Just like in late April 2010!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now0 -
But there is a vacancy for site flipflopper.Nigelb said:
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
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You do live in the past when we are in a political climate unique in peacetimejustin124 said:
Just like in late April 2010!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Times have changed and Corbyn has been found out0 -
By the time Labour table a VONC it will be too late to stop no deal short of replacing the government prior to an election. I assume you will three line whip in favour of Ken Clarke?0
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That's not what he cried about. https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1154093304327356416AlastairMeeks said:
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.AlastairMeeks said:
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?1 -
Corby’s passivity is every bit as helpless.justin124 said:
Labour was more exposed then after 13 years in Government - much more on the defensive.Nigelb said:
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.justin124 said:
Just like in late April 2010!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.justin124 said:
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.Big_G_NorthWales said:
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit partyjustin124 said:
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.Charles said:
How does Parliament stop no deal?DougSeal said:
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.Philip_Thompson said:
Fantastic!dixiedean said:Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
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Which is why they - or other Labour MPs - would be justified in getting under his skin by raising paternity suits etc!Big_G_NorthWales said:
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my supportNigelb said:
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
He has you rattled Justinejustin124 said:
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.twistedfirestopper3 said:
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?justin124 said:
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.GIN1138 said:How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them0 -
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.Philip_Thompson said:
That's not what he cried about. https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1154093304327356416AlastairMeeks said:
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.Philip_Thompson said:
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.AlastairMeeks said:
The story was: extreme right takeover.Philip_Thompson said:I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?0 -
If you think that Corbyn will back Clarke or anyone but himself I have a bridge to sell you!Gallowgate said:By the time Labour table a VONC it will be too late to stop no deal short of replacing the government prior to an election. I assume you will three line whip in favour of Ken Clarke?
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I do think that is a possibilityRecidivist said:
... of concentrating on a large number of seats in the SE and SW where they are a realistic challenge to the Tories and where cheesed off remainers could allow them to derive the Tories of their majority."HYUFD said:If Corbyn Labour are not careful Swinson's LDs will end up leading to the opposition to Boris' Tories instead
Just finishing off the sentence for you.0
This discussion has been closed.