Steve Baker making his upset/betrayed/angry/if only the little people had listened to me/ hard man face* on the backbenches looks very dangerous to me. The one good thing about the Johnson government so far was that the Brexit flank was totally secured and bought in.
Kerala is a State Texas is a State Bavaria is a State
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it? The UK is a UN member, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...
Kerala is a State Texas is a State Bavaria is a State
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it? The UK is a UN member, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...
Steve Baker making his upset/betrayed/angry/if only the little people had listened to me/ hard man face* on the backbenches looks very dangerous to me. The one good thing about the Johnson government so far was that the Brexit flank was totally secured and bought in.
No longer
*all faces indistinguishable to the naked eye....
Hopefully, for Boris, this is just confined to Baker’s vanity. But if it transpires that the ERG are unwavering malcontents and trouble makers, whoever the leader happens to be, then Boris Is probably stuffed.
Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job. She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.
Kerala is a State Texas is a State Bavaria is a State
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it? The UK is a UN member, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...
Is the Republic of Ireland a state? Because if you look at Irish legislation, government publications and customary political discourse you’ll see that the Irish certainly think so.
Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job. She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.
Agree with this. A VONC right now simply serves to push wavering Tories back into Bori's arms. They need a plausible reason if some of them are going to cross the floor for a VONC, and Boris is still peddling his "alright on the night, land of milk and honey" stuff. They need something more concrete like him deciding to prorogue parliament etc
Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
I’m not a Corbyn fan , he’s clueless most of the time but there was zip chance of it winning . The anti no dealers have already said they will give Johnson time to see if he can get a deal .
The optics of Bozo winning a VONC now wouldn’t be good because the press will make a meal of it and it would embolden the no dealers .
Some Tories will not go in the lobby with the opposition unless they’ve exhausted everything else .
If there was a vonc right now the govt would probably win it by single figures perhaps 5 or 7. Not sure how that strengthens Boris, it probably strengthens the Tory anti no dealers if anyone. Agree it wouldnt do much for Corbyn but that is not the same as strengthening the PM.
There is a risk at the moment when calling a VONC that the Tory parties retort with let's have an election then....
While calling one is the sensible thing to do and essential it really needs to be delayed until Parliament returns after the Party Conferences when the chance of an election before October 31st has past...
I am not entirely convinced by that to be honest. Failing to get a VNOC paseed now would not have prevented Corbyn trying again in September! Thatcher made several unsuccessful attempts at this in 1977/78 - and eventually succeeded. As it is, he could - at worst - expect to get much closer now than back in January - with four Tories now on the Opposition benches and two new Labour MPs. I suspect also that Lady Hermon would be much less inclined to support Boris Johnson than she was to help out Theresa May. Some signs that Alan Duncan might support such a vote. It would be pretty tight - single figures.
Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job. She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.
There is no such thing as the "right moment". As the opposition you can keep needling and there's no harm in Boris winning a VONC. Callaghan won 5, he still lost the 6th and that is all anybody remembers. Its like Corbyn's old friends in the IRA used to say "we only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky every time".
You hate the notion of a Corbyn government. Hate it even more than No Deal under Johnson.
Yet you say you wish fervently that Corbyn would shape up and bring this Tory government down.
This does not scan. Not without a convoluted insincere explanation anyway.
I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job. She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.
There is no such thing as the "right moment". As the opposition you can keep needling and there's no harm in Boris winning a VONC. Callaghan won 5, he still lost the 6th and that is all anybody remembers. Its like Corbyn's old friends in the IRA used to say "we only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky every time".
We do live in strange times. A post by Mr Thompson that I am in full agreement with!
The opposition needs to be seen to not boxing anti no deal Tories in . You need some goodwill .
Tory MPs have already said they want to wait to see if a deal could be done . Labour pushing this now loses some goodwill .
It’s not a minor matter to no confidence your own government , it’s career ending unless they have winnable seats by moving to the Lib Dems .
People have to get real , a VONC is a very hard thing to win even in the current climate .Tory MPs need to feel it would succeed before sacrificing their careers .
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
I have recently returned from a trip to Canada. From my experience staying with Wor Lass's family I can confirm that they speak the same language over there as over here. Punjabi.
Point taken. Those expounding our close ties to Canada or Australia are all WASPS, not BME Britons., and curiously they do not express the same affinity with Barbados or Jamaica.
Kerala is a State Texas is a State Bavaria is a State
The word "State" doesn't mean what you think it means, Sunil. The UK is a state, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on
Weeeellll….. the United STATES is a different entity to the United NATIONS, isn't it? The UK is a UN member, as is Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...
That doesn't contradict what I said
The US is the same entity as the UN? Or Different? I is confused!
I have recently returned from a trip to Canada. From my experience staying with Wor Lass's family I can confirm that they speak the same language over there as over here. Punjabi.
Point taken. Those expounding our close ties to Canada or Australia are all WASPS, not BME Britons., and curiously they do not express the same affinity with Barbados or Jamaica.
I think we have more in common with Barbados and Jamaica than we do some EU nations, like Romania which we were discussing earlier. More likely to see cricket being played in Kingston than Bucharest.
Excellent piece Ms @Cyclefree. Corbyn should have announced today that he’ll be calling a vote of confidence every week until he wins one!
With the majority well under a handful, an organised opposition can make daily life a nightmare for the government, stop ministers travelling and have the whips constantly tied up trying to get everyone in Parliament at the right time.
Corbyn, of course, doesn’t care. He would much prefer to be in opposition than in government, and he wants us to leave the EU while appearing to have nothing to do with the decision.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
Excellent piece Ms @Cyclefree. Corbyn should have announced today that he’ll be calling a vote of confidence every week until he wins one!
With the majority well under a handful, an organised opposition can make daily life a nightmare for the government, stop ministers travelling and have the whips constantly tied up trying to get everyone in Parliament at the right time.
Corbyn, of course, doesn’t care. He would much prefer to be in opposition than in government, and he wants us to leave the EU while appearing to have nothing to do with the decision.
If you had a VoNC now then Johnson would have to defend himself in public on the floor of the House of Commons. He would probably end up making some promises to "wavering Tory MPs" that would be hostages to fortune. And then when the next VonC hits he will have broken or contradicted those promises and given them a bigger reason to go through with it.
I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
So you would rather see a hard left Labour leader who was massively effective and thus would be a shoo in for PM after the next election?
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
"Storms to the left of us, storms to the right" but not a drop of rain here in East Ham. A wall of dark cloud to the east and the worst of the rain currently in Suffolk heading north but more storms into the eastern half of Kent as well. Plenty more still to come developing over Normandy and heading NNE.
Politics - every new PM gets a good start. They are new, different and often strike the confident and optimistic tone their predecessor themselves started with and lost on the journey. The EU has predictably failed to play ball initially but there's time yet or at least the anti-No Deal elements still adhering to Boris would be hoping.
The crunch will come when we find out just how far Conservatives opposed to a No Deal exit on 31/10 will go. The ball is in their court and there are, I believe, enough of them to frustrate the ardent pro-No Deal fraternity now in the ascendancy.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
Yes. i find that if I sit on my arse and do nothing, good stuff magically appears on my lap. It's surprising how often that happens....
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Labour were correct in not putting forward a VONC before the recess .
Bozo would have won that and he would have been taking that as a mandate for his Brexit plan .
I like the Lib Dems and Swinson but her idea was grandstanding and self defeating .
So "trying to prevent something" is the same as "enabling it", and "not trying to prevent something" is the same as "preventing it"
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
Labour are waiting for the right moment. The right moment isn't just as Boris has won a massive mandate from his membership, before he has set out his plan in detail and thus likely lost support from at least one wing of his party.
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job. She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.
There is no such thing as the "right moment". As the opposition you can keep needling and there's no harm in Boris winning a VONC. Callaghan won 5, he still lost the 6th and that is all anybody remembers. Its like Corbyn's old friends in the IRA used to say "we only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky every time".
We do live in strange times. A post by Mr Thompson that I am in full agreement with!
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.
VoNC against Johnson before Oct 31st. If it leads to an election he will be on TV constantly saying the peoples will have been stopped, etc, etc. He will galvanise leavers to vote for him because they have been cheated. Whereas Lab, Lib Dems will be fighting for the remainer vote.
Corbyn wants a no deal Brexit and then to force a VoNC.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
Yes. i find that if I sit on my arse and do nothing, good stuff magically appears on my lap. It's surprising how often that happens....
I don't think the last 30 hours or so can be described as Boris sitting on his arse doing nothing.
He's been quite bombastic and active with effectively a new government in place already.
Mandy Rice Davies applies to what the EU is saying today, but how they think and what they say in the next six weeks can vary.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
"There has been speculation in Westminster that Steve Baker was upset that he wasn’t offered a more senior role – perhaps including a seat at the cabinet table. Baker has himself indicated he felt the position he was offered would leave him powerless."
I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
So you would rather see a hard left Labour leader who was massively effective and thus would be a shoo in for PM after the next election?
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
If there was a vonc right now the govt would probably win it by single figures perhaps 5 or 7. Not sure how that strengthens Boris, it probably strengthens the Tory anti no dealers if anyone. Agree it wouldnt do much for Corbyn but that is not the same as strengthening the PM.
It would strengthen Boris only because Corbyn would prove himself yet again conspicuously incapable of presenting a credible case against a sitting target.
As Cyclefree rightly points out, persistent forensic questioning would eventually prove awkward for the blond bluffer.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
For all my concerns over Boris he made an impressive start today.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.
I sort of agree, but at 70 odd grand plus expenses, I want a bit more graft out of them. I've got a shed that wants painting, maybe Nicky Morgan could lend a hand now the sun is out?
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
I have recently returned from a trip to Canada. From my experience staying with Wor Lass's family I can confirm that they speak the same language over there as over here. Punjabi.
Point taken. Those expounding our close ties to Canada or Australia are all WASPS, not BME Britons., and curiously they do not express the same affinity with Barbados or Jamaica.
If there was a vonc right now the govt would probably win it by single figures perhaps 5 or 7. Not sure how that strengthens Boris, it probably strengthens the Tory anti no dealers if anyone. Agree it wouldnt do much for Corbyn but that is not the same as strengthening the PM.
It would strengthen Boris only because Corbyn would prove himself yet again conspicuously incapable of presenting a credible case against a sitting target.
As Cyclefree rightly points out, persistent forensic questioning would eventually prove awkward for the blond bluffer.
The Fuhrer inspired many people after taking office on 30th January 1933.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
I do not think Corbyn has what it takes. A Labour party with a better leader would be a better opposition and would be much more attractive to more people, including me.
So you would rather see a hard left Labour leader who was massively effective and thus would be a shoo in for PM after the next election?
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.
No. I do not want a hard left Labour leader. I would like there to be a strong effective Labour leader. The hard left are not effective because they are more interested in fighting amongst themselves and ideological purity.
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
Obviously I am a strong Brexit supporter and would be very upset if Brexit were thwarted. But that doesn't change the fact that everything you have written on this is correct. For our system to work properly it needs an opposition that opposes - on principle - so that those who do not agree with Government policy get a voice in Parliament.
A weak opposition leads to poor governance because the Government needs to be held to account and needs to be challenged continuously on its plans. Corbyn clearly fails to do that.
We have never had a Conservative Party I have had less confidence in. Yet I have never been more certain to vote Conservative. Because Labour has never been more horrifying.
Interestingly, the share of the Conservative vote in my lifetime has been an lmost total mirror image of how left-wiing the Labour Party has been. Arguably it doesn't really matter what the Conservative Party do - people vote for it out of fear of the other lot. I don't think the converse is exactly true.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I am not the least bit rattled as a committed abstainer next time- though thoroughly appalled. Many Tories agree with me - indeed from your previous comments I thought you might be one such person yourself.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
We have never had a Conservative Party I have had less confidence in. Yet I have never been more certain to vote Conservative. Because Labour has never been more horrifying.
Interestingly, the share of the Conservative vote in my lifetime has been an lmost total mirror image of how left-wiing the Labour Party has been. Arguably it doesn't really matter what the Conservative Party do - people vote for it out of fear of the other lot. I don't think the converse is exactly true.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
For all my concerns over Boris he made an impressive start today.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform
I'm glad. It was quite how I expected him to perform.
Hopefully he can be in charge for many years to come and can win back doubters like Mr Nabavi.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Even though she couldn't be arsed to find out what her remit was? Isn't Boris accused of not knowing the details? I know Fire and Rescue doesn't make any money and you only care about us when you need us, but she could have saved herself a bit of early embarrassment.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
There is a place in politics for hope and optimism. Cameron had it, Reagan epitomised it, Boris has it.
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
For all my concerns over Boris he made an impressive start today.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I am not the least bit rattled as a committed abstainer next time- though thoroughly appalled. Many Tories agree with me - indeed from your previous comments I thought you might be one such person yourself.
No I do not agree with your description of anyone being a lower form of life
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
Very possible but last word 'Dead' ?
All Souls Day . Mexicans in particular take it very seriously , they go to the graves of loved ones and sit and share a meal .
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
For longterm Tories like yourself it may well be the choice - but left of centre voters are unlikely to show much faith in the 'Tories' Little Helpers'.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
I'd offer the thought the first few days are the "honeymoon" for any new leader and it's very easy to be taken in (if you want to be) by the style more than the substance.
As I said earlier, Boris will always outpoint Corbyn in terms of charisma and style - he's younger and barnstorming is his style along with an excellent command of language. Corbyn is more softly spoken and diffident but get past the style and the bombast and get to the content. There was nothing of substance in Boris's comments - it was a Conference speech delivered in the Commons, all bombast and pomp or as someone once said "full of sound and fury signifying nothing".
Boris isn't May - that's why he got elected (well, that and a Com Res poll) and Conservatives always enjoy a good evisceration of Labour but there's a country to be governed and enormous fundamental decisions to be taken and all the grandstanding doesn't hide that fact.
Boris doesn't impress me, convince me or fool me but I recognise his intellect and above all his desire for self-advancement. He's not a Brexiteer but a Boriseer as I said earlier and he'll throw anyone and everyone under the bus (including the Union) to secure his own personal agenda and that includes every single member of his Cabinet.
More than that, he'll tell you and everyone else exactly what he thinks you want to hear - that's what a populist does. Compare and contrast with Margaret Thatcher who often said things people didn't want to hear but she said them because she knew they were right and we needed to be convinced. Boris lacks that strength however much some may see him in her image.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
It does seem strange that Parliament is now in recess for six weeks and Boris will virtually have the headlines to himself as he makes the case across the EU to leave on the 31st October and his ministers have six clear weeks to firm up the headline policies on police numbers, social care, NHS, and helping all the regions of the country, etc.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
Prediction. Boris and co will go round Europe but get nowhere with negotiations, partly because there is no one on the EU side with authority, and partly Nothing Has Changed. That takes to September where Parliament attempts to block No Deal. If they are successful, Boris calls a No Deal election to crush the saboteurs. If unsuccessful No Deal goes ahead on the Day of the Dead.
Very possible but last word 'Dead' ?
All Souls Day following All Saints Day Mexicans in particular take it very seriously , they go to the graves of loved ones and sit and share a meal .
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Just like in late April 2010!
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I am not the least bit rattled as a committed abstainer next time- though thoroughly appalled. Many Tories agree with me - indeed from your previous comments I thought you might be one such person yourself.
No I do not agree with your description of anyone being a lower form of life
Apart from those that dislike Hawaiian pizza. Sub-human scum, the lot of them.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
I get the rationale for not pushing it to a VONC just yet. You've got to wait till the No Deal is looming and people - the Tory rebels primarily - are down to nothing to lose status.
The only problem appears to be that the window to get this right in appears to be incredibly tight. If Parliament comes back from recess and isn't thinking about it in the first couple of days back then they're going to miss the window, so I can only presume everyone is hoping it'll be obvious or not from the summer recess.
If Corbyn Labour are not careful Swinson's LDs will end up leading to the opposition to Boris' Tories instead
... of concentrating on a large number of seats in the SE and SW where they are a realistic challenge to the Tories and where cheesed off remainers could allow them to derive the Tories of their majority."
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
Anyway. Talk of VONC is moot. Isn't that Parliament in recess for 6 weeks. 6 weeks is a long time in politics. Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
That six weeks stand down is an anachronism, and needs sorting out. No reason why they can't work the same system as everyone else.
Nah. They should work less not more. The trouble is that if you provide them with time to make new laws they will always fill it up, even if we don't need any new laws. We need less political interference in our lives not more.
I sort of agree, but at 70 odd grand plus expenses, I want a bit more graft out of them. I've got a shed that wants painting, maybe Nicky Morgan could lend a hand now the sun is out?
To be fair on Nicky, she wont be on holiday as ministers will have work to do in the next 6 weeks.
Best wishes to Mrs TFS, Glenfield Breast Unit are a well run dept. I would trust them with Mrs Foxy.
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Not Thatcherites. Opponents of democracy.
Your stuck record is rather boring Mr Meeks
I’m sorry you’re bored that Conservatives are flirting with suspending democracy. It seems quite important to me.
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Just like in late April 2010!
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.
Labour was more exposed then after 13 years in Government - much more on the defensive.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Just like in late April 2010!
You do live in the past when we are in a political climate unique in peacetime
By the time Labour table a VONC it will be too late to stop no deal short of replacing the government prior to an election. I assume you will three line whip in favour of Ken Clarke?
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Soames says he is "full of fear and dread" on C4 News.
Fantastic!
Now we just need Varadkar, Barnier and Juncker [when he sobers up] to feel the same and we can get somewhere.
FFS - I might be an imbecile but you are so dense light bends round you, Barnier’s team has been broken up and gone home now it’s task is complete, Juncker’s replacement has already been elected, and Varadkar is only one of 27. You’re fighting a war that’s been lost. They’ve packed up and gone home secure in the knowledge BoZo was appointed prime minister merely as a result of winning the Tory Party leadership contest, that no majority appears to exists in parliament for a no-deal Brexit, and that the Tories would struggle to win a national election if one were called, and while a disorderly exit would hurt the EU it would devastate us.
Either we remain or the UK ends and they deal with the weakened rump English state as they feel fit until we are trusted to join as a new state. You’ve lost. You just don’t realise it yet.
How does Parliament stop no deal?
By VNOC in Boris - and being prepared to install Corbyn. By October Remainer Tories will have no other choice.
By October labour could well be behind the conservatives, lib dems and brexit party
That has already happened in some Yougov polls - but other pollsters paint a different picture.
Yes but by October they could be in that position on a regular basis.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Just like in late April 2010!
Except that the Lib Dems ought to have learned from experience this time.
Labour was more exposed then after 13 years in Government - much more on the defensive.
How weird to see Boris as PM at the despatch on the news...
Indeed so - the mere fact that he holds the office effectively debases it.
Why does it? I get that Johnson is probably unsuited to the job. Trump is exactly the same, but they've got there via a legal system. Or is it the bastard thing again?
Much more than that - the fact that a major political party has thought fit to impose such a malign and disreputable human being on the citizens of this country. He really is a lower form of life.
He has you rattled Justine
I hope the egregious fake isn’t winning you round, Big G ?
If he wins through with a deal he will have gained my support
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
Which is why they - or other Labour MPs - would be justified in getting under his skin by raising paternity suits etc!
I wonder if Hammond, Stewart, Gauke etc seeking to make a spectacle of their resignations led in part to such a massive purge getting rid of the likes of Hunt, Mordaunt etc?
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
The story was: extreme right takeover.
Then you have people like Mr Boles acting shocked that the Tory Party has Thatcherites in it.
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?
Because you want to suspend democracy to achieve your ends.
By the time Labour table a VONC it will be too late to stop no deal short of replacing the government prior to an election. I assume you will three line whip in favour of Ken Clarke?
If you think that Corbyn will back Clarke or anyone but himself I have a bridge to sell you!
If Corbyn Labour are not careful Swinson's LDs will end up leading to the opposition to Boris' Tories instead
... of concentrating on a large number of seats in the SE and SW where they are a realistic challenge to the Tories and where cheesed off remainers could allow them to derive the Tories of their majority."
Comments
No longer
*all faces indistinguishable to the naked eye....
Pause.
I assume I don't need to write anything more...
The UK is a UN member, as are Iceland, Spain, Chile, the Russian Federation, Zimbabwe, and so on...
Swinson is playing a bit of politics and fair enough to her, that's her job.
She doesn't want a Vonc right now either since Boris would win it.
The optics of Bozo winning a VONC now wouldn’t be good because the press will make a meal of it and it would embolden the no dealers .
Some Tories will not go in the lobby with the opposition unless they’ve exhausted everything else .
The opposition needs to be seen to not boxing anti no deal Tories in . You need some goodwill .
Tory MPs have already said they want to wait to see if a deal could be done . Labour pushing this now loses some goodwill .
It’s not a minor matter to no confidence your own government , it’s career ending unless they have winnable seats by moving to the Lib Dems .
People have to get real , a VONC is a very hard thing to win even in the current climate .Tory MPs need to feel it would succeed before sacrificing their careers .
Plenty of time for a shiny new WDA to appear from the force of Boris' optimism.
With the majority well under a handful, an organised opposition can make daily life a nightmare for the government, stop ministers travelling and have the whips constantly tied up trying to get everyone in Parliament at the right time.
Corbyn, of course, doesn’t care. He would much prefer to be in opposition than in government, and he wants us to leave the EU while appearing to have nothing to do with the decision.
I think not. I think you're relieved that you perceive him as rubbish. And why wouldn't you be? It makes perfect sense.
I think he is going to directly challenge the EU and others to come to the table and will look to see the EU is painted as the ones causing a no deal, and when cornered will go for a GE on who rules the UK and his shiny new domestic policies
I am not sure if it will work but his barnstorming performance in the HOC really surprised me and the filleting of Corbyn and McDonnell has been long overdue
I have many reservations on Boris, and was very annoyed on how he treated Penny, but today has seen the opening of a new chapter in the agonising brexit saga
"Storms to the left of us, storms to the right" but not a drop of rain here in East Ham. A wall of dark cloud to the east and the worst of the rain currently in Suffolk heading north but more storms into the eastern half of Kent as well. Plenty more still to come developing over Normandy and heading NNE.
Politics - every new PM gets a good start. They are new, different and often strike the confident and optimistic tone their predecessor themselves started with and lost on the journey. The EU has predictably failed to play ball initially but there's time yet or at least the anti-No Deal elements still adhering to Boris would be hoping.
The crunch will come when we find out just how far Conservatives opposed to a No Deal exit on 31/10 will go. The ball is in their court and there are, I believe, enough of them to frustrate the ardent pro-No Deal fraternity now in the ascendancy.
If Boris can instil hope in enough people, he can get a majority.
https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/489288006827016192?s=20
Corbyn wants a no deal Brexit and then to force a VoNC.
He's been quite bombastic and active with effectively a new government in place already.
Mandy Rice Davies applies to what the EU is saying today, but how they think and what they say in the next six weeks can vary.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/jul/25/boris-johnson-new-cabinet-prime-minister-chairs-first-cabinet-as-critics-say-party-now-fully-taken-over-by-hard-right-live-news
I used to vote Labour. I turned to the Lib Dems because I could not stomach Blair's authoritarian approach to civil liberties.
We all lose out when there is no effective opposition. We need one now more than ever.
If this government did fall I would cheer and would vote Lib Dem. Indeed I hope they replace Labour if Labour stay in the grip of Corbyn and his pals.
In the meanwhile a government which badly needs being held to account will likely get away with stuff because Labour are AWOL.
As Cyclefree rightly points out, persistent forensic questioning would eventually prove awkward for the blond bluffer.
It was different, indeed very different, to how I expected him to perform
By the end of the day the story was not "Ministers resigned" it was "Boris transforms cabinet".
A weak opposition leads to poor governance because the Government needs to be held to account and needs to be challenged continuously on its plans. Corbyn clearly fails to do that.
Interestingly, the share of the Conservative vote in my lifetime has been an lmost total mirror image of how left-wiing the Labour Party has been.
Arguably it doesn't really matter what the Conservative Party do - people vote for it out of fear of the other lot. I don't think the converse is exactly true.
Conservative or Lib Dem is the choice now
Hopefully he can be in charge for many years to come and can win back doubters like Mr Nabavi.
It was pretty well exactly what I expected.
As I said earlier, Boris will always outpoint Corbyn in terms of charisma and style - he's younger and barnstorming is his style along with an excellent command of language. Corbyn is more softly spoken and diffident but get past the style and the bombast and get to the content. There was nothing of substance in Boris's comments - it was a Conference speech delivered in the Commons, all bombast and pomp or as someone once said "full of sound and fury signifying nothing".
Boris isn't May - that's why he got elected (well, that and a Com Res poll) and Conservatives always enjoy a good evisceration of Labour but there's a country to be governed and enormous fundamental decisions to be taken and all the grandstanding doesn't hide that fact.
Boris doesn't impress me, convince me or fool me but I recognise his intellect and above all his desire for self-advancement. He's not a Brexiteer but a Boriseer as I said earlier and he'll throw anyone and everyone under the bus (including the Union) to secure his own personal agenda and that includes every single member of his Cabinet.
More than that, he'll tell you and everyone else exactly what he thinks you want to hear - that's what a populist does. Compare and contrast with Margaret Thatcher who often said things people didn't want to hear but she said them because she knew they were right and we needed to be convinced. Boris lacks that strength however much some may see him in her image.
Doesn't sound like Barnier and Juncker are interested in re-opening the WA and therefore the EU wants a no-deal Brexit.
Think the tories might have picked the right man for the job to steer us through what will be a bumpy ride.
Halloween No-deal Brexit now Nailed On
Stock up on your canned goods.
And Team PB EU be prepared for egg on your faces when it's really not all that bad at all.
However, away from Brexit he traduced Corbyn and McDonnell in a manner that they have not faced so far and hopefully it is a foretaste of how he intends dealing with them
The only problem appears to be that the window to get this right in appears to be incredibly tight. If Parliament comes back from recess and isn't thinking about it in the first couple of days back then they're going to miss the window, so I can only presume everyone is hoping it'll be obvious or not from the summer recess.
Just finishing off the sentence for you.
Best wishes to Mrs TFS, Glenfield Breast Unit are a well run dept. I would trust them with Mrs Foxy.
Times have changed and Corbyn has been found out
Funny I've been a supporter and member of the Tories almost all my political life precisely because I am a Thatcherite and Libertarian. Why should that be horrific hard right?