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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. JohnL, cheers for those suggestions. Once the current woe is over (no time for them to arrive anyway if I ordered right away) I'll contemplate getting those sorts of things.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Nigelb said:
    I've got a horrible feeling that Cummings could rapidly become Boris's Andy Coulson.
    Remainers have been wanting those at the centre of the Leave campaign to take responsibility for their lies and now they're going to have to. If someone doesn't get a fleet of red busses to park outside Cummings and Johnson's offices I'll be disappointed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,708
    edited July 2019

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    notme2 said:

    notme2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD. Good morning.

    If Boris is serious about uniting the country he won’t be taking a leaf out of the book of Trump, Bibi and Salvini. I appreciate they are popular but they are not uniting figures are they?

    Boris will need to do some things differently and he will need to reach out to your so called “die hard remainers” if he is going to be a true uniting figure.

    Impossible, diehard Remainers refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and oppose No Deal and want to stop Brexit, they are the enemy if Boris wishes to deliver Brexit and win the next general election
    So, Remainers are “the enemy”? You do realise that you are talking about one third of your party’s supporters? Or have you already jumped ship to Farage’s company?
    Voting to remain does not make you a ‘remainer’, thinking that the deal is poor doesn’t make you a ‘remainer’. Wanting to undo the referendum result and being unwilling to accept any kind of agreement that involves us leaving the EU makes you a ‘remainer’.
    Voting Remain doesn’t make you a remainer?

    Next you’ll be telling us that taking communion doesn’t make you a Christian, knifing someone doesn’t make you a murderer and drinking a bottle of Scotch a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic. And that voting Leave doesn’t make you a leaver.

    A ‘remainer’ is not someone who voted remain. It is someone who refuses to accept the referendum and any kind of agreement to actually leave.
    The point is that HY has been quite happy to throw the "remainer" tag around at people like Hunt, who are now committed to Brexit.
    I have never called Hunt a diehard Remainer
    Hunt doesn't support leaving Deal or No Deal in October, in fact he thinks it's not possible.
    Hunt voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, so by definition is not a diehard Remainer.

    Diehard Remainers opposed the Withdrawal Agreement and oppose No Deal too
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Always said Jason Roy wasn't a test class batsman.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    kinabalu said:

    Would putting not very bright Pritti in the HO count as the most tokenist appointment of recent political history?

    Struggling to top it, that's for sure. I don't think you need - cringe alert - a 'rolls royce mind' to be an effective senior politician but Patel is a little too far down the quartiles. We're talking Hillman Imp.

    Would be interested in the reaction to this appointment of those who bang on about the 'thick as shit' black female Cambridge graduate from a state school who will be shadowing her.
    I'm probably guilty of this in real life, although less so on here. For the record, I think appointing Patel to the cabinet would be as bad as appointing Abbott. Even if Patel is (slightly) more likely to resemble a competent politician, the track record of corruption evens things up a bit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    notme2 said:

    notme2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD. Good morning.

    If Boris is serious about uniting the country he won’t be taking a leaf out of the book of Trump, Bibi and Salvini. I appreciate they are popular but they are not uniting figures are they?

    Boris will need to do some things differently and he will need to reach out to your so called “die hard remainers” if he is going to be a true uniting figure.

    Impossible, diehard Remainers refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and oppose No Deal and want to stop Brexit, they are the enemy if Boris wishes to deliver Brexit and win the next general election
    So, Remainers are “the enemy”? You do realise that you are talking about one third of your party’s supporters? Or have you already jumped ship to Farage’s company?
    Voting to remain does not make you a ‘remainer’, thinking that the deal is poor doesn’t make you a ‘remainer’. Wanting to undo the referendum result and being unwilling to accept any kind of agreement that involves us leaving the EU makes you a ‘remainer’.
    Voting Remain doesn’t make you a remainer?

    Next you’ll be telling us that taking communion doesn’t make you a Christian, knifing someone doesn’t make you a murderer and drinking a bottle of Scotch a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic. And that voting Leave doesn’t make you a leaver.

    A ‘remainer’ is not someone who voted remain. It is someone who refuses to accept the referendum and any kind of agreement to actually leave.
    The point is that HY has been quite happy to throw the "remainer" tag around at people like Hunt, who are now committed to Brexit.
    I have never called Hunt a diehard Remainer
    Hunt doesn't support leaving Deal or No Deal in October, in fact he thinks it's not possible.
    Hunt voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, so by definition is not a diehard Remainer
    He voted for Theresa May’s Versailles Treaty. Obviously a Remain fifth columnist.

    https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1110987187343028225?s=21
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    LOL - one delivery doesn't change everything.

    The Aussies have some serious middle order problems.

    At best for the Aussies retaining the Ashes is a 50/50 prospect.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Endillion said:

    kinabalu said:

    Would putting not very bright Pritti in the HO count as the most tokenist appointment of recent political history?

    Struggling to top it, that's for sure. I don't think you need - cringe alert - a 'rolls royce mind' to be an effective senior politician but Patel is a little too far down the quartiles. We're talking Hillman Imp.

    Would be interested in the reaction to this appointment of those who bang on about the 'thick as shit' black female Cambridge graduate from a state school who will be shadowing her.
    I'm probably guilty of this in real life, although less so on here. For the record, I think appointing Patel to the cabinet would be as bad as appointing Abbott. Even if Patel is (slightly) more likely to resemble a competent politician, the track record of corruption evens things up a bit.
    Abbott is a cleverer politician than Patel.
    Admittedly the bar is low, but Abbott is a lot more wily.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,755
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I think that pretty much sums up Mr Cummings. Bright and brilliant. But doesn't realise that political parties aren't businesses run by dictators, but are fragile coalitions of interests and egos.
    The description of him as a Tory Leninist is not entirely off the mark.

    He's certainly an institution wrecker by temperament.
    I believe Steve Bannon has described himself as a Leninist in the past..
    Lenin could do ideas and implementation at a stellar level. That's what makes him the greatest political figure of the 20th C.
    IMHO, Stalin's political skills were of a higher order.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274


    I've got a horrible feeling that Cummings could rapidly become Boris's Andy Coulson.

    By all accounts wasn't Coulson actually highly professional and very good at his job and comms from #10 wasn't ever as good when he left and replaced by the plonker from the BBC.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    Absolubte mince, he was LBW more or less first ball against the Kiwis in the ODI final and saved by a poor umpiring decision. Who are you picking above him ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    notme2 said:

    notme2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD. Good morning.

    If Boris is serious about uniting the country he won’t be taking a leaf out of the book of Trump, Bibi and Salvini. I appreciate they are popular but they are not uniting figures are they?

    Boris will need to do some things differently and he will need to reach out to your so called “die hard remainers” if he is going to be a true uniting figure.

    Impossible, diehard Remainers refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement and oppose No Deal and want to stop Brexit, they are the enemy if Boris wishes to deliver Brexit and win the next general election
    So, Remainers are “the enemy”? You do realise that you are talking about one third of your party’s supporters? Or have you already jumped ship to Farage’s company?
    Voting to remain does not make you a ‘remainer’, thinking that the deal is poor doesn’t make you a ‘remainer’. Wanting to undo the referendum result and being unwilling to accept any kind of agreement that involves us leaving the EU makes you a ‘remainer’.
    Voting Remain doesn’t make you a remainer?

    Next you’ll be telling us that taking communion doesn’t make you a Christian, knifing someone doesn’t make you a murderer and drinking a bottle of Scotch a day doesn’t make you an alcoholic. And that voting Leave doesn’t make you a leaver.

    A ‘remainer’ is not someone who voted remain. It is someone who refuses to accept the referendum and any kind of agreement to actually leave.
    The point is that HY has been quite happy to throw the "remainer" tag around at people like Hunt, who are now committed to Brexit.
    I have never called Hunt a diehard Remainer
    Hunt doesn't support leaving Deal or No Deal in October, in fact he thinks it's not possible.
    Hunt voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, so by definition is not a diehard Remainer.

    Diehard Remainers opposed the Withdrawal Agreement and oppose No Deal too
    Nah. Remainers are Remainers. I am a Remainer. You are a Remainer. That's just how it is. You believe that it is best for the UK to remain as an EU member. That makes you a Remainer. Diehard or otherwise.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013
    alex. said:

    One for the historians. If rumours are to be believed Johnson is going to bring back into the cabinet 2 maybe 3 people who have been sacked or resigned in disgrace in the current Parliament. When was the last time this happened?

    There is no accountability. The UK is filth.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019
    Fenster said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    LOL - one delivery doesn't change everything.

    The Aussies have some serious middle order problems.

    At best for the Aussies retaining the Ashes is a 50/50 prospect.
    It wasn't just one delivery.

    Aussies might have serious middle order problems against a full strength England bowling attack. However, there is no Archer, no Wood, Anderson a major doubt...and rashid is injuried / lost form.

    I don't see how an England attack missing those players are ever going to get a Steve Smith out if he gets past 20.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Sandpit said:

    No Tory MP resignations overnight, so it looks like we’ll have a new PM this afternoon - 8th PM of my lifetime, although I have little memory of Mr Callaghan.

    Not my preferred choice, but nonetheless wish him well and hope he can assemble a good team around him.

    However many Tory MPs resigned overnight, Boris would still become prime minister. There is no such thing as an advisory confidence vote in a backbencher. Boris would, as leader of the Conservative Party, still be the MP most likely to be able to form a government. However many MPs oppose Boris, more oppose Hunt.

    And the reason the Conservative Party dragged out the leadership contest is to give Boris eight weeks over the recess to shore up support.
    Six weeks in fact - Parliament returns on 3rd September.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Fenster said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    LOL - one delivery doesn't change everything.

    The Aussies have some serious middle order problems.

    At best for the Aussies retaining the Ashes is a 50/50 prospect.
    It wasn't just one delivery.

    Aussies might have serious middle order problems against a full strength England bowling attack. However, there is no Archer, no Wood, Anderson a major doubt...and rashid is injuried / lost form.

    I don't see how an England attack missing those players are ever going to get a Steve Smith out if he gets past 20.
    "side strain"... https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/9556861/england-cricket-jofra-archer-woman-paint-barbados-festival/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,051

    Mr. Borough, Boris would remain if Remain won.

    Another referendum would certainly be interesting.

    Mr. B2, I might have to write tomorrow off. Trying to get work done in sweltering conditions is not great (writing's not exactly physically intensive but you do need to be able to concentrate).

    Handy tip: Hyperkewl. So far I've only tried the wrist straps but they seem to work admirably. I got onto them through watching Formula 1 on the telly. That is the sport where, as predicted, the driver umpteen points clear and who'd won five of the last six British Grand Prix, won the British Grand Prix.

    A cool bath or shower can also bring your core body temperature down for a bit.

    Domestic air conditioning is also becoming affordable, at least for my rich acquaintances if not for me. If you do go down that route, get proper air con with an outside fan, not one of the useless portable ones with a pipe you vent out of the window.
    There is a lot of it about:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1153973107041951745?s=19
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Pulpstar said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    Absolubte mince, he was LBW more or less first ball against the Kiwis in the ODI final and saved by a poor umpiring decision. Who are you picking above him ?
    Well that's the problem and another reason I don't think England win the Ashes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Pulpstar said:

    Fenster said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    LOL - one delivery doesn't change everything.

    The Aussies have some serious middle order problems.

    At best for the Aussies retaining the Ashes is a 50/50 prospect.
    It wasn't just one delivery.

    Aussies might have serious middle order problems against a full strength England bowling attack. However, there is no Archer, no Wood, Anderson a major doubt...and rashid is injuried / lost form.

    I don't see how an England attack missing those players are ever going to get a Steve Smith out if he gets past 20.
    "side strain"... https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/9556861/england-cricket-jofra-archer-woman-paint-barbados-festival/
    They have said no Archer at least until the 2nd test and no Wood before the 4th test.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300


    I've got a horrible feeling that Cummings could rapidly become Boris's Andy Coulson.

    By all accounts wasn't Coulson actually highly professional and very good at his job and comms from #10 wasn't ever as good when he left and replaced by the plonker from the BBC.
    For all Tories complain about the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation, they recruit an awful lot of Conservatives from there. Not just press officers, either; even their new leader was chosen from a BBC panel game.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    If Hunt has decided he's too good for Defence then he doesn't deserve any sympathy if he gets nothing. Outrageous to look down your nose at Defence Secretary, that is a very important job.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    If Hunt has decided he's too good for Defence then he doesn't deserve any sympathy if he gets nothing. Outrageous to look down your nose at Defence Secretary, that is a very important job.

    If Hunt has decided he's too good for Defence then he doesn't deserve any sympathy if he gets nothing. Outrageous to look down your nose at Defence Secretary, that is a very important job.

    Maybe it's his way of saying, no thank you !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    edited July 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    Absolubte mince, he was LBW more or less first ball against the Kiwis in the ODI final and saved by a poor umpiring decision. Who are you picking above him ?
    Well that's the problem and another reason I don't think England win the Ashes.
    I think he is an Adam Gilchrist type figure that should open in the one dayers and then bat further down in tests ideally. England have a hell of alot of potentially very destructive No 6 type batsmen though (Buttler, Bairstow, Roy, Morgan) but there isn't room for all of them in the side.
    One batsman that really impressed and could potentially open (Though it might turn out to be an Ali style horror show) is Stokes, he showed real patience in the world cup - though he probably doesn't have enough technique to open maybe... but I think he has the iron mentality.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    Absolubte mince, he was LBW more or less first ball against the Kiwis in the ODI final and saved by a poor umpiring decision. Who are you picking above him ?
    Well that's the problem and another reason I don't think England win the Ashes.
    I think he is an Adam Gilchrist type figure that should open in the one dayers and then bat further down in tests ideally. England have a hell of alot of destructive No 6 type batsmen though !
    One batsman that really impressed and could potentially open (Though it might turn out to be an Ali style horror show) is Stokes, he showed real patience in the world cup - though he probably doesn't have enough technique to open maybe... but I think he could potentially have the iron mentality.
    I agree about Stokes being highly impressive. In the past he has very much been all or bust, but during the WC he dug England out of a hole a number of times through patience and determination.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:
    I've got a horrible feeling that Cummings could rapidly become Boris's Andy Coulson.
    Remainers have been wanting those at the centre of the Leave campaign to take responsibility for their lies and now they're going to have to. If someone doesn't get a fleet of red busses to park outside Cummings and Johnson's offices I'll be disappointed.
    Rather than Coulson, Cummings might be the spiritual successor to Sir Alan Walters, who waged war with the Chancellor and Treasury from Number 10.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232


    I've got a horrible feeling that Cummings could rapidly become Boris's Andy Coulson.

    By all accounts wasn't Coulson actually highly professional and very good at his job and comms from #10 wasn't ever as good when he left and replaced by the plonker from the BBC.
    Yes, you're probably right about Coulson's professionalism. The problems arose when he became the epicentre of the whole NOTW/phone-hacking/Murdoch imbroglio. There's no doubt that the Guardian and others will now be busting a gut to recreate something similar with Cummings and fake news. It could prove very distracting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,051
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:
    I've got a horrible feeling that Cummings could rapidly become Boris's Andy Coulson.
    Remainers have been wanting those at the centre of the Leave campaign to take responsibility for their lies and now they're going to have to. If someone doesn't get a fleet of red busses to park outside Cummings and Johnson's offices I'll be disappointed.
    Dominic Cummings won't last, both Boris and he know that. The purpose is to deliver Brexit by hook by crook, after that his abrasive personality is unlikely to work wellin a team, and his vision of the post Brexit destruction of British institutions is anything but conservative. See his discussion with David Allen Green here. Indeed he seems to hate the Conservatives:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1153975485929533442?s=19



  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    That high back lift of Burns looks prime for a Mitchell Starc 95mph yorker.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jason Roy showing why he doesn't open in the longer form of the game. The Australians have to be firm favourites for the Ashes.

    Absolubte mince, he was LBW more or less first ball against the Kiwis in the ODI final and saved by a poor umpiring decision. Who are you picking above him ?
    Well that's the problem and another reason I don't think England win the Ashes.
    I think he is an Adam Gilchrist type figure that should open in the one dayers and then bat further down in tests ideally. England have a hell of alot of destructive No 6 type batsmen though !
    One batsman that really impressed and could potentially open (Though it might turn out to be an Ali style horror show) is Stokes, he showed real patience in the world cup - though he probably doesn't have enough technique to open maybe... but I think he could potentially have the iron mentality.
    I agree about Stokes being highly impressive. In the past he has very much been all or bust, but during the WC he dug England out of a hole a number of times through patience and determination.
    He is learning patience in his game.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    If Boris is VoNC'ed and no alternative government put together within a fortnight,
    " .. the last day for tabling of a vote of no confidence to guarantee a change of Government through an election is today, not September 3rd, and the Leader of the Opposition’s dithering has virtually guaranteed that this cannot be used"

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/07/chris-white-what-will-the-new-prime-ministers-parliamentary-options-be-on-brexit.html

    Yep, any attempt by rebel Tories or Labour to force a GE or VoNC has to happen immediately. Any attempt to prove that Boris didn’t have a majority at all is probably too late already, that should have been done yesterday.

    It’s now a game of chicken with the EU up to October 31st - either they change the WA or it’s no deal.
    The article does not consider the possibility that having passed a VNOC in September that the Commons might instal an alternative PM - probably Corbyn - in the 14 day period which followed.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,013



    We could have achieved all that by simply announcing we were no longer going to send MEPs and commissioners. Individuals could have done their own version by not bothering to vote in EU elections.

    Not allowed. The undemocratic EU insists on all Member States having parliamentary representation (including me, who has never had representation in Westminster).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Ishmael_Z said:

    What odds on May a) crying b) reprising Cameron gag on "my diary this afternoon looks remarkably empty or c) both?

    Good point, the traditional “Question No.1” should elicit a somewhat different answer to the usual today.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    If Boris is VoNC'ed and no alternative government put together within a fortnight,
    " .. the last day for tabling of a vote of no confidence to guarantee a change of Government through an election is today, not September 3rd, and the Leader of the Opposition’s dithering has virtually guaranteed that this cannot be used"

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/07/chris-white-what-will-the-new-prime-ministers-parliamentary-options-be-on-brexit.html

    Yep, any attempt by rebel Tories or Labour to force a GE or VoNC has to happen immediately. Any attempt to prove that Boris didn’t have a majority at all is probably too late already, that should have been done yesterday.

    It’s now a game of chicken with the EU up to October 31st - either they change the WA or it’s no deal.
    The article does not consider the possibility that having passed a VNOC in September that the Commons might instal an alternative PM - probably Corbyn - in the 14 day period which followed.
    How would corbyn get a majority vote?? more likely a Caretaker PM with elections to follow.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Who said the Germans don't have a sense of humour

    https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-1278073-1450826.html
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Roger said:

    Who said the Germans don't have a sense of humour

    https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bild-1278073-1450826.html

    is that Tony Blair?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320
  • Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Barnesian said:

    TOPPING said:



    Kuensberg is a light weight. I remember her giddy with excitement on the night in 2015 when the Tories won their majority. That's when l began to distrust her impartiality. She also is shallow in her analysis. Andrew Neil barely tolerates her - and he's a Tory.

    I think she's great. She is as good a political commentator as any other and better than a lot. No idea why she provokes such a dislike. As I said for some perhaps it's the name, which has something of the night about it. Or perhaps that she is a woman. Who knows?
    I explained why l don't rate her. It's nothing to do with her name(!) or that's she's a woman. She's a lightweight in her analysis. I suspect she's aware of this but can't do anything about it. Adler shows her up. And she's a woman with a funny name.
    I honestly can't tell the difference between her, Adler, Norman Smith, etc. Pienaar I rate very highly. Are you really saying that one europe/political correspondent is significantly worse than all the others? Well of course it's up to you and we are all political geeks on here but I find it strange.
    They’re all significantly worse than Andrew Neil?
    Yes well I'm a big Neil fan. Plenty of MPs dislike his gotcha approach but I, as a punter, love it. But I'm also talking about standing with a microphone on College Green telling us what's going on.
    Why the TV stations continue to conduct open air reports and interviews on College Green is one of the great modern mysteries. They’re continually drowned out by the protest of the day, and it wouldn’t cost them much in the grand scheme of things to rent a room in an adjacent building that they could control.

    Agree entirely. And my other gripe is someone, often Kuenssberg shouting some inane comment/question at whatever minister is going in to or coming out of 10 Downing Street. Must be tempting to shout something equally outrageous back, perhaps for those who are revisiting the back benches today would be the day.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    If Boris is VoNC'ed and no alternative government put together within a fortnight,
    " .. the last day for tabling of a vote of no confidence to guarantee a change of Government through an election is today, not September 3rd, and the Leader of the Opposition’s dithering has virtually guaranteed that this cannot be used"

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/07/chris-white-what-will-the-new-prime-ministers-parliamentary-options-be-on-brexit.html

    Yep, any attempt by rebel Tories or Labour to force a GE or VoNC has to happen immediately. Any attempt to prove that Boris didn’t have a majority at all is probably too late already, that should have been done yesterday.

    It’s now a game of chicken with the EU up to October 31st - either they change the WA or it’s no deal.
    The article does not consider the possibility that having passed a VNOC in September that the Commons might instal an alternative PM - probably Corbyn - in the 14 day period which followed.
    Seems Jezza may have done it again. Found a way of dithering sufficiently to allow Seamus's desperately wanted Tory No Deal.

    Although to be fair if he called for VoNC today or tomorrow he would almost certainly lose because the rebel tories are not ready to kill their new government until September.

    The article also does not note that the 5 weeks campaign for GE could be shortened.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
    Patel would send twitter into meltdown.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    chances of Corbs being mealy mouthed at PMQ's.... high.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019
    I could do with one of these at the moment....

    https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/1153964035160858625?s=20
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,224

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    If Boris is VoNC'ed and no alternative government put together within a fortnight,
    " .. the last day for tabling of a vote of no confidence to guarantee a change of Government through an election is today, not September 3rd, and the Leader of the Opposition’s dithering has virtually guaranteed that this cannot be used"

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/07/chris-white-what-will-the-new-prime-ministers-parliamentary-options-be-on-brexit.html

    Yep, any attempt by rebel Tories or Labour to force a GE or VoNC has to happen immediately. Any attempt to prove that Boris didn’t have a majority at all is probably too late already, that should have been done yesterday.

    It’s now a game of chicken with the EU up to October 31st - either they change the WA or it’s no deal.
    The article does not consider the possibility that having passed a VNOC in September that the Commons might instal an alternative PM - probably Corbyn - in the 14 day period which followed.
    Seems Jezza may have done it again. Found a way of dithering sufficiently to allow Seamus's desperately wanted Tory No Deal.

    Although to be fair if he called for VoNC today or tomorrow he would almost certainly lose because the rebel tories are not ready to kill their new government until September.

    The article also does not note that the 5 weeks campaign for GE could be shortened.
    If he is to be VONC'd, wouldn't it have to be done by his own Party? Any other Party, and Conservative MPs would be much more likely to back him unanimously.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Wonder who will get Foreign Sec with Hunt rumoured to be heading to defence (A post that will suit him well I think)

    Could it be Gove ? Keeping enemies closer and all that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Going to a cooler room, I think (which is pretty much anywhere else in the house).

    Stay cool, kids.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
    Some of us suggested that betting on next ministers should be informed by Boris's need to prove he is neither racist nor misogynist, given Boris's past record.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,179
    edited July 2019
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I think that pretty much sums up Mr Cummings. Bright and brilliant. But doesn't realise that political parties aren't businesses run by dictators, but are fragile coalitions of interests and egos.
    The description of him as a Tory Leninist is not entirely off the mark.

    He's certainly an institution wrecker by temperament.
    I believe Steve Bannon has described himself as a Leninist in the past..
    Lenin could do ideas and implementation at a stellar level. That's what makes him the greatest political figure of the 20th C.
    IMHO, Stalin's political skills were of a higher order.
    I think you have to be morally bankrupt to comment without mentioning that both of these criminals were amongst the blackest human beings and most evil leaders in history.

    As far as the political leaders of the 20th century, I could make a plausible case for FDR, Mahatma Gandhi or John Paul II

    Moral vacuums like Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Hitler do not deserve the word "great", unless it means terrible.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
    In my entire working life I have always been in a minority in whatever group or team I was in. Only when I ran a team of my own was there gender parity. Not because that was what I set out to achieve but because I appointed the best people I could find. And they were people who were good at the job, had integrity and were utterly trustworthy.

    I really loathe this idea that there must be a woman or an ethnic minority person in a role so that it looks right. What someone looks like is irrelevant. Integrity and competence are what count.

    Ludicrously old-fashioned I know.

    Which is why we will end up having people in charge who lack integrity and whose competence is questionable.

    O tempora! O mores!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    Wonder who will get Foreign Sec with Hunt rumoured to be heading to defence (A post that will suit him well I think)

    Could it be Gove ? Keeping enemies closer and all that.

    Hunt won't go to defence, although it would be ironic to see Hunt at MoD trying to defend our oil tankers with the two frigates and a canoe that Tory defence cuts have reduced the Royal Navy to. Amusing if it were not tragic.

    In any case, would Boris want Hunt further developing the EU Navy while he is struggling with Brexit and Trump?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
    Some of us suggested that betting on next ministers should be informed by Boris's need to prove he is neither racist nor misogynist, given Boris's past record.
    Here's my sole foray into the market - I tipped it up here too

    27 JUN
    SINGLE
    OPEN
    This bet has been boosted!
    Sajid Javid
    (To Win)
    9/5
    Next Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Stake
    £20.00
    Returns
    £56.00
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,300
    Ishmael_Z said:

    What odds on May a) crying b) reprising Cameron gag on "my diary this afternoon looks remarkably empty or c) both?

    Maybe reprise John Major and head off to the Test?

    (Mind you, she's probably had enough of Irish boundaries.. )
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    Javid won't be bad but Liz Truss would be better.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
    Some of us suggested that betting on next ministers should be informed by Boris's need to prove he is neither racist nor misogynist, given Boris's past record.
    Well, by offering Defence to Hunt he’s shown a rather dismissive attitude to Penny Mordaunt. I’d be seething if I were her. Even if she stays she knows she wasn’t his first choice.

    No amount of tokenism now is going to change his past actions and statements. If anything, appointing a stupid lying woman into a post just because she is a woman and a minority emphasises his low expectations.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    Javid won't be bad but Liz Truss would be better.
    That might be your wish but is there any evidence it might be Truss at this point ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    England will be bowling by tea time.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,720
    edited July 2019
    Knew we should have bowled first
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,720

    England will be bowling by tea time.

    Optimist!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Today's agenda is TM takes PMQs, speaks in Downing St, speaks to HM, then HM calls Boris, then he speaks in Downing St right?

    What odds that Boris in his speech in Downing St says he's advised HM we should have an election and he will be holding a vote in Parliament tomorrow to dissolve Parliament and seek an election?

    Don't think it is likely but would be a dramatic start to a Premiership.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164

    England will be bowling by tea time.

    I have a ticket for Friday. I thought England batting first meant it was likely I'd get to see some play. Perhaps not.
  • I'm not a fan of Boris particularly. I find it hard to reconcile the visible obvious character flaws with the qualities that are needed in someone to be a great leader.

    However, some of the descriptions and comparisons that have been written and spoken of are beyond ridiculous. For example those that see Boris as a UK Trump are way off the mark. Brexit aside, he sits at the Liberal end of the party and has a record of similar to some of the other one nation tories. He also has a progressive view on ecology and climate change. He's gaffe-prone, but not a liar or racist like Trump. Even the ill-judged comments on the attire of Muslim women was an article that, overall, was championing their cause.

    I do find the optimism refreshing. If that can be combined with some hard work and some passion, then it might pay some dividends. With the financial crisis, recession, austerity, divisiveness about the referendum and its result, we have had a pretty shitty 12 years or so (save for a few weeks perhaps around the Olympics, when we didn't feel so bad about ourselves)

    I think it will come down to a general election sooner rather than later but the only chance of success is probably with an electoral pact with TBP. (Even the act of entering into a pact, will presumably shift a fair proportion of voters back to the blue camp). Without it, I see a horribly hung parliament with more division than ever and a referendum fudge.

    On the subject of another referendum, I am actually all in favour but think the options should be Leave or Full Member (Euro, Schengen etc). There would be little point in going back to the effective associate membership of the EU that was in place pre-referendum. Macron and new Europe want closer ties and we either have to take part in that journey or not be a part at all. I don't think sitting on the sidelines cherry picking our currency and other rules would be viable long term in any event, so why hanker after it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Will BoZo's cabinet fall apart faster than the England batting?

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1153981442193539072
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited July 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    So likely that two of the 'great offices of state' held by an ethnic minority individual.

    Of course for some of the left they are 'the wrong sort of ethnic minorities'...
    Some of us suggested that betting on next ministers should be informed by Boris's need to prove he is neither racist nor misogynist, given Boris's past record.
    Here's my sole foray into the market - I tipped it up here too

    27 JUN
    SINGLE
    OPEN
    This bet has been boosted!
    Sajid Javid
    (To Win)
    9/5
    Next Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Stake
    £20.00
    Returns
    £56.00
    To be on the safe side, maybe wait till new ministers are confirmed before treating the other half to a slap-up meal at the local ice cream parlour, rather than trusting to journalists tweeting rumours.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Javid allies giving it the old "confident" sign

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1153779701959352320

    Javid won't be bad but Liz Truss would be better.
    That might be your wish but is there any evidence it might be Truss at this point ?
    Not much, looks like she was in the frame but all the evidence points to Javid.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    Toby Young alert!

    He's on College Green.

    I know it's a big TV day but best to leave it for a while.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019
    Scott_P said:
    So much for an impartial civil services that is there to implement the government directives.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:
    Very important allotment committee meeting....somebody has been over using the communal water tap.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    BBC re PMQs and heart attack joke -- wasn't it Yes Prime Minister rather than Not the Nine o'Clock News, or did they both do it?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Correction...England will be bowling by lunch...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Scott_P said:
    The first episode of Yes Minister has the blueprint. As the new team arrive in the ministry, the SPAD Frank Weisal is shown to his new office....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2019
    The BBC missed the start of PMQs. Too busy chatting.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Ireland were 60 to 1 at the start of play with Betfair.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,720
    Talk about a World Cup hangover
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I think that pretty much sums up Mr Cummings. Bright and brilliant. But doesn't realise that political parties aren't businesses run by dictators, but are fragile coalitions of interests and egos.
    The description of him as a Tory Leninist is not entirely off the mark.

    He's certainly an institution wrecker by temperament.
    I believe Steve Bannon has described himself as a Leninist in the past..
    Lenin could do ideas and implementation at a stellar level. That's what makes him the greatest political figure of the 20th C.
    IMHO, Stalin's political skills were of a higher order.
    I think you have to be morally bankrupt to comment without mentioning that both of these criminals were amongst the blackest human beings and most evil leaders in history.

    As far as the political leaders of the 20th century, I could make a plausible case for FDR, Mahatma Gandhi or John Paul II

    Moral vacuums like Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Hitler do not deserve the word "great", unless it means terrible.
    They were not moral vacuums. They deliberately chose evil. Let’s call them for what they were. Evil men.

    And those who support them, even now, are also evil for doing so. They too are making a moral choice between good and evil.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019
    England aren't going to even make lunch!!!!!! Will be all-out before the end of PMQs.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    England know that today is a good day to bury bad news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    Today's TdF stage looks like potentially a Sagan one to me.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    England aren't going to even make lunch!!!!!! Will be all-out before the end of PMQs.

    They better change this around quick before the Ashes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited July 2019

    England aren't going to even make lunch!!!!!! Will be all-out before the end of PMQs.

    They better change this around quick before the Ashes.
    The cheating convicts must be pissing themselves watching England get out to medium pace trundlers.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    Roger said:

    From respected adman at Saatchis to cu*t almost overnight.

    Mmm, Steve Hilton -

    He thought the unthinkable and did not wear socks. Or indeed shoes.
  • Interesting perspective, if it hasn't already come up here:

    Mujtaba Rahman
    @Mij_Europe
    1h
    Interesting that this is also the interpretation of Dom Cummings appointment in Bxl. Senior EU official central to #Brexit to me: "It looks like the agenda is elections, not negotiations."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Good job England bat deep.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited July 2019
    Scott_P said:
    I don't see how any May strategists can be respected. A departure from May's dismal failures looks like a good start.

    EDIT: But being honest I have never heard of Raoul Ruparel.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,841
    edited July 2019

    England aren't going to even make lunch!!!!!! Will be all-out before the end of PMQs.

    They better change this around quick before the Ashes.
    The cheating convicts must be pissing themselves watching England get out to medium pace trundlers.
    If you look at luck as the "when" of probability we're due about 20 dodgy LBW decisions against us too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Trust Corbyn to be a complete sourpuss, unable to be collegiate and magnanimous as his opponent leaves office.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    The saving grace for England - it's impossible that they can bat this bad for the rest of the summer.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    Surgical Corbyn at PMQs. He can be impressive, no question.
  • Is that laurel and hardy in their later years?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,840
    Sandpit said:

    Trust Corbyn to be a complete sourpuss, unable to be collegiate and magnanimous as his opponent leaves office.

    Oh do stop it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    kinabalu said:

    Surgical Corbyn at PMQs. He can be impressive, no question.

    Totally misjudged the occasion
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The next Speaker after Bercow might do well to return PMQs to questions and answers rather than speeches from party leaders.
This discussion has been closed.