politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voters are beginning to see that Boris Johnson is not the
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Most likely outcome I think.RochdalePioneers said:
And thus deliver thebrexit which will probably destroy the Union and the Conservative and Unionist Party. But when the alternative is a swift decline and replacement by Farage and the Brexit Party, i can see the appealHYUFD said:
We are not electing a chief executive we are electing a Prime Minister with charisma, conviction and belief who wants to deliver Brexit and has the campaigning skills to win a general election which Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
I refer you to my previous answer on Father Christmas and flat earthers. Please answer the question I would like to know. What skills does the celebrity polemicist Mr Johnson have that will make him a good Chief Executive?HYUFD said:
And being PM and winning an election and delivering Brexit requires more than being a cold fish businessman like Hunt, it actually requires some passion and belief in Brexit as Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
That is a little rude for such a polite chap as you, but no, not wrong, because as I say Johnson is very highly recognisable, probably doubly so when compared to Hunt.HYUFD said:
Wrong again.Nigel_Foremain said:
That is a miniscule difference. All you have proved is that Boris Johnson is currently more recognisable.HYUFD said:
Survation has the Tories tied with Labour under Johnson today but 3% behind Labour with Hunt so wrongOblitusSumMe said:Now that we have two, non-YouGov polls without a Brexit Party lead it's interesting to note that there has only been one non-YouGov poll to show the Brexit Party with a poll lead.
The Conservative Party may have been panicked into electing Johnson as Prime Minister on the basis of a quirk of the opinion polls. This is quite remarkable.
Boris picks up more Brexit Party voters than he loses to the LDs.
Hunt loses voters to the Brexit Party without picking up any new voters from the LDs.
Hunt is also Foreign Secretary, hardly unrecognisable
I will therefore ask again, the key question that needs to be asked: Please explain to us, other than your belief that he might be better at winning elections, WHY does the polemicist Mr Johnson have what it takes to be the Chief Executive of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
It may have escaped you, but being a Chief Executive requires a bit more than just spouting populist drivel in puerile newspaper articles.0 -
TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.1 -
Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.1
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No, I do not. It requires being a CEO+++. Boris is just a celebrity- - -HYUFD said:
You are yet again assuming being elected a PM or President merely requires being a CEO, that is wrong, ask Mitt RomneyNigel_Foremain said:
You are stating speculation as fact rather than what it is; speculation.HYUFD said:
Boris was key to Leave winning, had Farage rather than Boris been the Leave frontman Leave would have narrowly lost rather than narrowly wonNigel_Foremain said:
Boris Johnson is not a "Leaver". He is an egotist. He saw that pretending to support leaving the UK as best way to support his egotistical ambitions. He would vociferously claim that Father Christmas was real and the earth was flat if he thought that enough Tory members believed such propositions. He is a serial liar, but worse than that he does not have the most fundamental skills to do the job which he is applying for.HYUFD said:
I know die-hard Remainers who tend to be present on PB in large numbers want all 3 main parties to again have Remainers as Leader but I actually want a Leaver now who will deliver BrexitStereotomy said:
That's the difference you're basing your support for Boris on?HYUFD said:
Survation has the Tories tied with Labour under Johnson today but 3% behind Labour with Hunt so wrongOblitusSumMe said:Now that we have two, non-YouGov polls without a Brexit Party lead it's interesting to note that there has only been one non-YouGov poll to show the Brexit Party with a poll lead.
The Conservative Party may have been panicked into electing Johnson as Prime Minister on the basis of a quirk of the opinion polls. This is quite remarkable.
Please answer the question on why Boris will make a good Chief Executive. Perhaps like many who are voting for him, you don't know what makes a good CE? That is OK, but please say so.0 -
It is indeed. I find myself agreeing with Liam Fox and a post by a supporter of the SNP.malcolmg said:
You could not make it up , it is like Alice in Wonderland.Theuniondivvie said:Things are so fcuked up, Fox has become the voice of reason.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/11427418235106058240 -
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@MikeSmithson have you traded out of your Boris lay?0
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No it doesn't, otherwise Dewey would have beaten Truman, Gore beaten Bush, Romney beaten Obama, Ford beaten Carter and here May clearly beaten Corbyn, Heath always beaten Wilson and Clegg beaten Miliband and CameronNigel_Foremain said:
No, I do not. It requires being a CEO+++. Boris is just a celebrity- - -HYUFD said:
You are yet again assuming being elected a PM or President merely requires being a CEO, that is wrong, ask Mitt RomneyNigel_Foremain said:
You are stating speculation as fact rather than what it is; speculation.HYUFD said:
Boris was key to Leave winning, had Farage rather than Boris been the Leave frontman Leave would have narrowly lost rather than narrowly wonNigel_Foremain said:
Boris Johnson is not a "Leaver". He is an egotist. He saw that pretending to support leaving the UK as best way to support his egotistical ambitions. He would vociferously claim that Father Christmas was real and the earth was flat if he thought that enough Tory members believed such propositions. He is a serial liar, but worse than that he does not have the most fundamental skills to do the job which he is applying for.HYUFD said:
I know die-hard Remainers who tend to be present on PB in large numbers want all 3 main parties to again have Remainers as Leader but I actually want a Leaver now who will deliver BrexitStereotomy said:
That's the difference you're basing your support for Boris on?HYUFD said:
Survation has the Tories tied with Labour under Johnson today but 3% behind Labour with Hunt so wrongOblitusSumMe said:Now that we have two, non-YouGov polls without a Brexit Party lead it's interesting to note that there has only been one non-YouGov poll to show the Brexit Party with a poll lead.
The Conservative Party may have been panicked into electing Johnson as Prime Minister on the basis of a quirk of the opinion polls. This is quite remarkable.
Please answer the question on why Boris will make a good Chief Executive. Perhaps like many who are voting for him, you don't know what makes a good CE? That is OK, but please say so.0 -
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.-1 -
Either you haven’t read or haven’t understood Nigel’s post. Have another try.HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Mitt Romney would probably have been an excellent President. That he wasn't elected doesn't detract from that. The only thing you can claim for Johnson is that he *might* have a better chance of winning an election. Albeit of the two candidates he is the more likely to have to fight one in the immediate future. But, HYUFD, you've said absolutely nothing about why he would be any good at doing the job. Even the one thing you think he would deliver is doubtful given that his stated means of achieving it is based on absolute nonsense.
And in relation to the policy that you've made up for him - what happens if the Northern Ireland electorate reject the backstop???0 -
Can Warren Continue to Rise?
https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/can-warren-continue-rise#4310 -
Not now they aren't. Many people have realised what a disaster Brexit will be.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
When we have definitive proof that Grayling can tie his own shoelaces, that'll be the final sign of the coming apocalypse.malcolmg said:
You could not make it up , it is like Alice in Wonderland.Theuniondivvie said:Things are so fcuked up, Fox has become the voice of reason.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/11427418235106058240 -
+1Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
I agree with you 100% about Boris!
I dont think people being interested in what Boris says should be mistaken for charisma. As soon as he has to make a decision people will turn against him. He is not a salesman or persuader IMO. He will fall flat on his face as he he blunders in front of the camaras.0 -
What she means is that she knows if there is a 2nd vote she will lose her seat.Scott_P said:
As John McTern said in Reaction online magazine, don't come between an MP and their seat.0 -
God you sound more like Comical Ali as each day passes.HYUFD said:
We are not electing a chief executive we are electing a Prime Minister with charisma, conviction and belief who wants to deliver Brexit and has the campaigning skills to win a general election which Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
I refer you to my previous answer on Father Christmas and flat earthers. Please answer the question I would like to know. What skills does the celebrity polemicist Mr Johnson have that will make him a good Chief Executive?HYUFD said:
And being PM and winning an election and delivering Brexit requires more than being a cold fish businessman like Hunt, it actually requires some passion and belief in Brexit as Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
That is a little rude for such a polite chap as you, but no, not wrong, because as I say Johnson is very highly recognisable, probably doubly so when compared to Hunt.HYUFD said:
Wrong again.Nigel_Foremain said:
That is a miniscule difference. All you have proved is that Boris Johnson is currently more recognisable.HYUFD said:
Survation has the Tories tied with Labour under Johnson today but 3% behind Labour with Hunt so wrongOblitusSumMe said:Now that we have two, non-YouGov polls without a Brexit Party lead it's interesting to note that there has only been one non-YouGov poll to show the Brexit Party with a poll lead.
The Conservative Party may have been panicked into electing Johnson as Prime Minister on the basis of a quirk of the opinion polls. This is quite remarkable.
Boris picks up more Brexit Party voters than he loses to the LDs.
Hunt loses voters to the Brexit Party without picking up any new voters from the LDs.
Hunt is also Foreign Secretary, hardly unrecognisable
I will therefore ask again, the key question that needs to be asked: Please explain to us, other than your belief that he might be better at winning elections, WHY does the polemicist Mr Johnson have what it takes to be the Chief Executive of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
It may have escaped you, but being a Chief Executive requires a bit more than just spouting populist drivel in puerile newspaper articles.1 -
His argument appears to be that because Boris has so successfully hoodwinked Tory MPs and most Tory members, he’ll surely be able to hoodwink the rest of us.OllyT said:
God you sound more like Comical Ali as each day passes.HYUFD said:
We are not electing a chief executive we are electing a Prime Minister with charisma, conviction and belief who wants to deliver Brexit and has the campaigning skills to win a general election which Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
I refer you to my previous answer on Father Christmas and flat earthers. Please answer the question I would like to know. What skills does the celebrity polemicist Mr Johnson have that will make him a good Chief Executive?HYUFD said:
And being PM and winning an election and delivering Brexit requires more than being a cold fish businessman like Hunt, it actually requires some passion and belief in Brexit as Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
That is a little rude for such a polite chap as you, but no, not wrong, because as I say Johnson is very highly recognisable, probably doubly so when compared to Hunt.HYUFD said:
Wrong again.Nigel_Foremain said:
That is a miniscule difference. All you have proved is that Boris Johnson is currently more recognisable.HYUFD said:
Survation has the Tories tied with Labour under Johnson today but 3% behind Labour with Hunt so wrongOblitusSumMe said:Now that we have two, non-YouGov polls without a Brexit Party lead it's interesting to note that there has only been one non-YouGov poll to show the Brexit Party with a poll lead.
The Conservative Party may have been panicked into electing Johnson as Prime Minister on the basis of a quirk of the opinion polls. This is quite remarkable.
Boris picks up more Brexit Party voters than he loses to the LDs.
Hunt loses voters to the Brexit Party without picking up any new voters from the LDs.
Hunt is also Foreign Secretary, hardly unrecognisable
I will therefore ask again, the key question that needs to be asked: Please explain to us, other than your belief that he might be better at winning elections, WHY does the polemicist Mr Johnson have what it takes to be the Chief Executive of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
It may have escaped you, but being a Chief Executive requires a bit more than just spouting populist drivel in puerile newspaper articles.0 -
If he gets the job Boris also has the belief in Brexit May and Hunt do not really have to deliver Brexit and a GB FTA with the EU out of the Single Market and Customs Union.alex. said:Mitt Romney would probably have been an excellent President. That he wasn't elected doesn't detract from that. The only thing you can claim for Johnson is that he *might* have a better chance of winning an election. Albeit of the two candidates he is the more likely to have to fight one in the immediate future. But, HYUFD, you've said absolutely nothing about why he would be any good at doing the job. Even the one thing you think he would deliver is doubtful given that his stated means of achieving it is based on absolute nonsense.
And in relation to the policy that you've made up for him - what happens if the Northern Ireland electorate reject the backstop???
On the backstop if Northern Ireland voters reject it and vote for a hard border with the Republic of Ireland that is Barnier and Varadkar's problem not Boris' but it is likely Northern Ireland voters will vote for it given the polling there0 -
HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
I am talking about who will be best as PM not Brexit!HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
Jeremy Hunt is articulate, well balanced and genuine.
Boris is a spoilt brat who is out of touch according to his partner. You dont get a better evaluation of someones character than by a partner...1 -
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My main problem with Boris is that there is no depth to him at all. It is clear that he does not believe a word of what he says. It's great not to take yourself too seriously but my sense of him is that he takes NOTHING seriously. There is nothing there other than a bluff entertaining persona, a decent vocabulary, and a gargantuan sense of entitlement.The_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
Don't get me wrong, he's not pure poison like Trump, definitely not, but we really ought to be able to do better than this for Prime Minister.1 -
Nicola Sturgeon is an idiot then?malcolmg said:
It takes half a day to get there from Scotland though so why any idiot would think we would want another runway is not right in the tattie.Casino_Royale said:
Terminal 4 at Heathrow, yes. Terminal 5 at Heathrow, absolutely not.eek said:
+1 - given a choice between flying via London or via Schiphol give me Schiphol any day...malcolmg said:
LOL, we want to fund a 3rd runway for London like we want a hole in the head and given Tories hide in the back of blacked out range rovers and never see a member of the public one can only imagine the well wishers are the 13 brown noser MPs and the ColonelScott_P said:
And I can get there in 45 minutes from where I live.
Terminal 5 is superb for British Airways business.
Quite right. I agree.0 -
Superb. It will lose them millions of votes.Big_G_NorthWales said:To add to all the chaos over Brexit and Boris, it is reported today that Corbyn and his cabal are considering levying capital gains tax on all sales of private homes
What have we all done to deserve this abject failure of our politicians0 -
Unless you count the conviction (and belief ?) that he should be PM, Boris only scores on one of those.HYUFD said:
We are not electing a chief executive we are electing a Prime Minister with charisma, conviction and belief ....Nigel_Foremain said:
I refer you to my previous answer on Father Christmas and flat earthers. Please answer the question I would like to know. What skills does the celebrity polemicist Mr Johnson have that will make him a good Chief Executive?HYUFD said:
And being PM and winning an election and delivering Brexit requires more than being a cold fish businessman like Hunt, it actually requires some passion and belief in Brexit as Boris hasNigel_Foremain said:
That is a little rude for such a polite chap as you, but no, not wrong, because as I say Johnson is very highly recognisable, probably doubly so when compared to Hunt.HYUFD said:
Wrong again.Nigel_Foremain said:
That is a miniscule difference. All you have proved is that Boris Johnson is currently more recognisable.HYUFD said:
Survation has the Tories tied with Labour under Johnson today but 3% behind Labour with Hunt so wrongOblitusSumMe said:Now that we have two, non-YouGov polls without a Brexit Party lead it's interesting to note that there has only been one non-YouGov poll to show the Brexit Party with a poll lead.
The Conservative Party may have been panicked into electing Johnson as Prime Minister on the basis of a quirk of the opinion polls. This is quite remarkable.
Boris picks up more Brexit Party voters than he loses to the LDs.
Hunt loses voters to the Brexit Party without picking up any new voters from the LDs.
Hunt is also Foreign Secretary, hardly unrecognisable
I will therefore ask again, the key question that needs to be asked: Please explain to us, other than your belief that he might be better at winning elections, WHY does the polemicist Mr Johnson have what it takes to be the Chief Executive of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
It may have escaped you, but being a Chief Executive requires a bit more than just spouting populist drivel in puerile newspaper articles.
0 -
Believing in nonsense isn’t going to help us any. You didn’t even vote for Brexit yourself, and you’re as gullible as they come.HYUFD said:
If he gets the job Boris also has the belief in Brexit May and Hunt do not really have to deliver Brexit and a GB FTA with the EU out of the Single Market and Customs Union.alex. said:Mitt Romney would probably have been an excellent President. That he wasn't elected doesn't detract from that. The only thing you can claim for Johnson is that he *might* have a better chance of winning an election. Albeit of the two candidates he is the more likely to have to fight one in the immediate future. But, HYUFD, you've said absolutely nothing about why he would be any good at doing the job. Even the one thing you think he would deliver is doubtful given that his stated means of achieving it is based on absolute nonsense.
And in relation to the policy that you've made up for him - what happens if the Northern Ireland electorate reject the backstop???
On the backstop if Northern Ireland voters reject it and vote for a hard border with the Republic of Ireland that is Barnier and Varadkar's problem not Boris'0 -
As I said earlier, believing that Boris "believes in Brexit" is like a child believing his parents believe in Father Christmas. Boris believes in "Project Boris's Ego" in the same way Trump believes in "Project Donald's Ego", anything else, (including argumentative girlfriends no doubt) is secondary to that priority. Electing egotists never ends well.HYUFD said:
If he gets the job Boris also has the belief in Brexit May and Hunt do not really have to deliver a GB FTA.alex. said:Mitt Romney would probably have been an excellent President. That he wasn't elected doesn't detract from that. The only thing you can claim for Johnson is that he *might* have a better chance of winning an election. Albeit of the two candidates he is the more likely to have to fight one in the immediate future. But, HYUFD, you've said absolutely nothing about why he would be any good at doing the job. Even the one thing you think he would deliver is doubtful given that his stated means of achieving it is based on absolute nonsense.
And in relation to the policy that you've made up for him - what happens if the Northern Ireland electorate reject the backstop???
On the backstop if Northern Ireland voters reject it and vote for a hard border that is Barnier and Varadkar problem not Boris0 -
Bozo has been over inflated by the media who keep telling us how popular he is and how much the public like him .
When the truth is he has a hardcore of groupies who would drink Kool Aid if he told them to.
The rest of the public can’t stand him. Hunt is beige but much less divisive and won’t trash the UKs reputation .
People wouldn’t walk over hot coals to vote against him but they certainly will with Bozo .
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Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills
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Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Indeed, Boris does not seem to run on anything definitive. It is not good enough.kinabalu said:
My main problem with Boris is that there is no depth to him at all. It is clear that he does not believe a word of what he says. It's great not to take yourself too seriously but my sense of him is that he takes NOTHING seriously. There is nothing there other than a bluff entertaining persona, a decent vocabulary, and a gargantuan sense of entitlement.The_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
Don't get me wrong, he's not pure poison like Trump, definitely not, but we really ought to be able to do better than this for Prime Minister.
Give us a National Govt headed by Ken Clarke, David Cameron or Tony Blair any day!0 -
Boris is (would be) the first PM for whom the campaign to unseat him (by his own side) is organising and underway before he has even been elected.nico67 said:Bozo has been over inflated by the media who keep telling us how popular he is and how much the public like him .
When the truth is he has a hardcore of groupies who would drink Kool Aid if he told them to.
The rest of the public can’t stand him. Hunt is beige but much less divisive and won’t trash the UKs reputation .
People wouldn’t walk over hot coals to vote against him but they certainly will with Bozo .0 -
Labour heading into massive overreach territory at this rate. These CGT changes follow from last week's IHT changes that would see scrapping of Osborne's £1m family home property exemption, scrapping of the 7 year rule and a lifetime cap of £125K.Casino_Royale said:
Superb. It will lose them millions of votes.Big_G_NorthWales said:To add to all the chaos over Brexit and Boris, it is reported today that Corbyn and his cabal are considering levying capital gains tax on all sales of private homes
What have we all done to deserve this abject failure of our politicians
A fascinating contrast with the old Brown/Blair model that you need to utterly bombproof your tax policy announcements in run up to a GE.0 -
You will find that delivering Brexit and uniting the country are utterly incompatible. Quite possibly not delivering Brexit and uniting the country are also incompatible, but that’s the fault of the right wing fanatics that have pushed us down this path in the first place.kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
And a certain intellectually challenged left winger who inadequately did his job as LoTOIanB2 said:
You will find that delivering Brexit and uniting the country are utterly incompatible. Quite possibly not delivering Brexit and uniting the country are also incompatible, but that’s the fault of the right wing fanatics that have pushed us down this path in the first place.kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
I see the CGT story comes from the same report as the IHT stuff. The report's main finding is on a Land Value Tax, which seems far more sensible and vote catching than attacking family home owners.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9355770/corbyns-labour-mulling-new-proposal-to-grab-more-tax-from-homeowners/0 -
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
Or just tell us how Brexit unites the country. It only got 52% three years ago, and appears to be rather less popular now.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Once again, I ask the question, not can he win an election, but how does he have the qualities to do the job? Winning elections is only the first bit. It is like winning a job at interview. You then have to do it. What qualities does this polemicist/journalist/celebrity politician have to be First Among Equals in a cabinet that is the executive of our country?kjohnw said:
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Not the first main party leader though as Corbyn will confirmIanB2 said:
Boris is (would be) the first PM for whom the campaign to unseat him (by his own side) is organising and underway before he has even been elected.nico67 said:Bozo has been over inflated by the media who keep telling us how popular he is and how much the public like him .
When the truth is he has a hardcore of groupies who would drink Kool Aid if he told them to.
The rest of the public can’t stand him. Hunt is beige but much less divisive and won’t trash the UKs reputation .
People wouldn’t walk over hot coals to vote against him but they certainly will with Bozo .0 -
An apt comparison. Just a shame you seem to be the only member to appreciate the analogy. Think a bit more on the implications.HYUFD said:
Not the first main party leader though as Corbyn will confirmIanB2 said:
Boris is (would be) the first PM for whom the campaign to unseat him (by his own side) is organising and underway before he has even been elected.nico67 said:Bozo has been over inflated by the media who keep telling us how popular he is and how much the public like him .
When the truth is he has a hardcore of groupies who would drink Kool Aid if he told them to.
The rest of the public can’t stand him. Hunt is beige but much less divisive and won’t trash the UKs reputation .
People wouldn’t walk over hot coals to vote against him but they certainly will with Bozo .0 -
Well saidkjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
Not very well said at all. To talk about "purging remainers" and also uniting the country is just plain thick. Sorry to say it how it is.HYUFD said:
Well saidkjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills2 -
Yes, it's simply not true that all Leavers are barking. Many who are not post here and put a case that is at least coherent even if not universally accepted.Casino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
What qualities did John Major have or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Cameron. A Cabinet of all the talents is what makes good government . Boris is more than capable of leading such a cabinet . He did ok in London he can do ok for the UKNigel_Foremain said:
Once again, I ask the question, not can he win an election, but how does he have the qualities to do the job? Winning elections is only the first bit. It is like winning a job at interview. You then have to do it. What qualities does this polemicist/journalist/celebrity politician have to be First Among Equals in a cabinet that is the executive of our country?kjohnw said:
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills
0 -
Grieve has not been deselected - though the threat is clearly there.DougSeal said:
The brains trust that forms the membership of both our main parties has failed to understand that when you deselect someone you lose your leverage over them. What’s he got to lose? If this parliament lasts, as it could, for another three years Grieve can do what he wants in that time and then go back to the Bar.LondonTown said:
I though Dominic Grieve lost a local party no-confidence vote. Has he just decided to ignore that vote now as well as the referendum?Scott_P said:Johnson is facing five plots to derail his premiership before it has even started:
● Tory MPs plan to write to May saying they will not vote for Johnson in a motion of no confidence, making it difficult for her to recommend that the Queen invites him to form a government because he will not be able to command a majority in the House of Commons.
● Dominic Grieve, the former attorney- general, yesterday confirmed that even if this does not work, a sizeable group of Tory MPs is prepared to vote with Labour to bring down the government if Johnson persists with his plan to leave the EU by October 31 come what may. He said another Tory could be summoned to the palace instead.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mps-plotting-to-make-boris-pm-for-just-one-day-br03hdsv90 -
I'm still waiting Mr HYUFD. I am still a member of the party that used to claim to be Conservative and Unionist, and I have a vote in this highly undemocratic process. Tell me why I should think Boris should be PM (not just leader of the Party), or at the very least why I should not fear his incompetence in that position?0
-
Erm, the Mayoralty is largely a ceremonial function but even so he had some well-publicised failures of which I think the Garden Bridge and Water Cannons were the most famous.kjohnw said:
What qualities did John Major have or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Cameron. A Cabinet of all the talents is what makes good government . Boris is more than capable of leading such a cabinet . He did ok in London he can do ok for the UKNigel_Foremain said:
Once t bit. It is like winning a job at interview. You then have to do it. What qualities does this polemicist/journalist/celebrity politician have to be First Among Equals in a cabinet that is the executive of our country?kjohnw said:
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills
He screwed up as Foreigh Secretary too. It's not a great record in office.0 -
Much good that did Mrs May. Who had the pick of the same people, including Boris himself.kjohnw said:
What qualities did John Major have or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Cameron. A Cabinet of all the talents is what makes good government . Boris is more than capable of leading such a cabinet . He did ok in London he can do ok for the UKNigel_Foremain said:
Once again, I ask the question, not can he win an election, but how does he have the qualities to do the job? Winning elections is only the first bit. It is like winning a job at interview. You then have to do it. What qualities does this polemicist/journalist/celebrity politician have to be First Among Equals in a cabinet that is the executive of our country?kjohnw said:
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.Nigel_Foremain said:Mr HYUFD, I am sure you are a nice man, but really, you are naïve in the extreme. Look at any effective leaders from around the world and they need executive capability, leadership, eye for detail, decisiveness, and the really good ones also have consistency and principles. Churchill, Margaret Thatcher and even Blair had most of these things in spade loads. Charisma is nice, but it is worthless without the other characteristics. Boris is hopeless on all fronts and his so-called charisma (don't see it myself) will melt in the first heat of action. He will simply look like the buffoon, poseur and spoilt little liar that he is, and he will drag his party and the country down with his overwhelming incompetence. Maybe he should win so he and the people that voted for him and Brexit can reap the effects of the shitstorm that you claim he is responsible for, but I cannot wish that on my fellow countrymen.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
I have told you umpteen times as he believes in Brexit and will deliver it and a FTA for GB.Nigel_Foremain said:I'm still waiting Mr HYUFD. I am still a member of the party that used to claim to be Conservative and Unionist, and I have a vote in this highly undemocratic process. Tell me why I should think Boris should be PM (not just leader of the Party), or at the very least why I should not fear his incompetence in that position?
However as you are a diehard Remainer you will obviously be voting for Hunt so it is pointless discussing it further with you-1 -
So, in early/mid September, the polls are showing Cons 25, Lab 23, BP, 22 and LibDems 17, and the EU ain’t giving an inch. Does PM Johnson seek to call an election? Would his Cabinet/MPs and allow him when the risks are so great?
OK, an alliance with the BP then? Excellent.... but which Conservative MPs are going to voluntarily - or be compelled to - stand aside from their safe seats so that the BP can have a reasonable shot at having a respectable contingent in the Commons? Nigel ain’t so daft as to agree that they will only stand in seats held by Labour, LibDem etc.
“Dear Sir Graham....”0 -
Yes, it's bollocks though.AlastairMeeks said:
The idea that Scots will flock to independence after the car crash of Brexit over the last three years, which the breakup of the UK would make look like a picnic, is fanciful in the extreme.0 -
Mr kjohnw, Gordon Brown would be a good comparison with Boris. The others had the qualities of executive leadership, decisiveness, hard work, eye for detail, knowledge of different departments either in opposition or government. Fundamentally they knew how to command a brief. Boris is an abject failure in the departments he has "worked" in. I wouldn't put him in charge of a parish council.0
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An election is no way out for anyone.JohnO said:So, in early/mid September, the polls are showing Cons 25, Lab 23, BP, 22 and LibDems 17, and the EU ain’t giving an inch. Does PM Johnson seek to call an election? Would his Cabinet/MPs and allow him when the risks are so great?
OK, an alliance with the BP then? Excellent.... but which Conservative MPs are going to voluntarily - or be compelled to - stand aside from their safe seats so that the BP can have a reasonable shot at having a respectable contingent in the Commons? Nigel ain’t so daft as to agree that they will only stand in seats held by Labour, LibDem etc.
“Dear Sir Graham....”
It would lead to a Parliament even more hung and incapacitated than this one is.0 -
Wouldn't nothing be far better than Boris?kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.1 -
I don't think that's true at all.kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
Voters would rally around Hunt to stop Corbyn.0 -
The current Leaver master plan involves Boris Johnson discarding any talent who is not seen as a pH 14 Leaver. So a government of a quarter of the talents.IanB2 said:
Much good that did Mrs May. Who had the pick of the same people, including Boris himself.kjohnw said:
What qualities did John Major have or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Cameron. A Cabinet of all the talents is what makes good government . Boris is more than capable of leading such a cabinet . He did ok in London he can do ok for the UKNigel_Foremain said:
Once again, I ask the question, not can he win an election, but how does he have the qualities to do the job? Winning elections is only the first bit. It is like winning a job at interview. You then have to do it. What qualities does this polemicist/journalist/celebrity politician have to be First Among Equals in a cabinet that is the executive of our country?kjohnw said:
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
I used to think there was considerable merit in the argument that only Boris can beat Jezza.kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
But Boris's performance so far has been poor. Low energy and shifty. Lacking the old mojo and clearly under strict orders to avoid the media, public etc.
If he campaigns in a GE like this then he will lose.0 -
The Tory campaign materials write themselves.rottenborough said:
Labour heading into massive overreach territory at this rate. These CGT changes follow from last week's IHT changes that would see scrapping of Osborne's £1m family home property exemption, scrapping of the 7 year rule and a lifetime cap of £125K.Casino_Royale said:
Superb. It will lose them millions of votes.Big_G_NorthWales said:To add to all the chaos over Brexit and Boris, it is reported today that Corbyn and his cabal are considering levying capital gains tax on all sales of private homes
What have we all done to deserve this abject failure of our politicians
A fascinating contrast with the old Brown/Blair model that you need to utterly bombproof your tax policy announcements in run up to a GE.
Of course it might only have traction in Tory v. labour marginals. Elsewhere hitherto safeish Tory seats could be vulnerable to the LDs on a "make it stop" message.0 -
I’m not sure that “we’ve wrecked the UK, now don’t you see why Scotland should stay part of it” is a referendum-winning platform.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, it's bollocks though.AlastairMeeks said:
The idea that Scots will flock to independence after the car crash of Brexit over the last three years, which the breakup of the UK would make look like a picnic, is fanciful in the extreme.0 -
The one thing that will turn wavering Tory members back to Boris is wee nippy sweetie sticking her oar inCasino_Royale said:
Yes, it's bollocks though.AlastairMeeks said:
The idea that Scots will flock to independence after the car crash of Brexit over the last three years, which the breakup of the UK would make look like a picnic, is fanciful in the extreme.0 -
Fox will be gone. He has developed an annoying habit of engaging with trade rules reality.AlastairMeeks said:
The current Leaver master plan involves Boris Johnson discarding any talent who is not seen as a pH 14 Leaver. So a government of a quarter of the talents.IanB2 said:
Much good that did Mrs May. Who had the pick of the same people, including Boris himself.kjohnw said:
What qualities did John Major have or Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Cameron. A Cabinet of all the talents is what makes good government . Boris is more than capable of leading such a cabinet . He did ok in London he can do ok for the UKNigel_Foremain said:
Once again, I ask the question, not can he win an election, but how does he have the qualities to do the job? Winning elections is only the first bit. It is like winning a job at interview. You then have to do it. What qualities does this polemicist/journalist/celebrity politician have to be First Among Equals in a cabinet that is the executive of our country?kjohnw said:
Time will tell Nigel , time will tell , let’s see where we are in six months , if we have a conservative majority humble pie may be required .Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear another groupie! Tell us why he has the qualities required to be a good PM?kjohnw said:
Boris is the only one who can deliver brexit now and unite the country. He’s far from perfect , but despite a one off survation poll, he will beat Corbyn (and do labour a favour) and get the tories a majority back so they aren’t reliant on the DUP and purge put the ultra remainers or at least make them powerless to prevent brexit . Hunt cannot achieve this . This is why Boris is hated because they fear him and know he will destroy remain , and labour .HYUFD said:
Without charisma you lose anyway and do not get the chance to lead or deliver anything, again ask Mitt Romney.
Churchill, Blair and Thatcher all had charisma as well as other executive skills0 -
I may well not vote at all, but you still have not answered my question. Yes you see everything through the prism of Brexit, that much is obvious, but if Boris groupies want to be sure he gets the job then he needs to demonstrate he can do the job of being PM, not just cheerleader in chief for Brexit. By-the-way, I accept that we have to go through with the madness known as Brexit, and that Boris Johnson is partly responsible for that calamity. Hunt has also promised to deliver on this, and it is difficult to see how he can retreat from that. Personally if I were you I would trust his integrity rather more than Johnson, because Boris Johnson has none of that particular commodity!HYUFD said:
I have told you umpteen times as he believes in Brexit and will deliver it and a FTA for GB.Nigel_Foremain said:I'm still waiting Mr HYUFD. I am still a member of the party that used to claim to be Conservative and Unionist, and I have a vote in this highly undemocratic process. Tell me why I should think Boris should be PM (not just leader of the Party), or at the very least why I should not fear his incompetence in that position?
However as you are a diehard Remainer you will obviously be voting for Hunt so it is pointless discussing it further with you0 -
As a person who is green on Warren I hope so.rottenborough said:Can Warren Continue to Rise?
https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/can-warren-continue-rise#431
She has a pin sharp, simple message (eat the rich) and the ability to answer any question with her message which think connects with the Democratic base.
As Biden continues to fuck up his enourmas lead has to go somewhere and I don't see Biden backers switching to Sanders.0 -
Not sure Biden is exactly f***ing up. A minor wobble or two so far I'd say. TV debates this coming week, so we will know a lot more by Friday.Alistair said:
As a person who is green on Warren I hope so.rottenborough said:Can Warren Continue to Rise?
https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/can-warren-continue-rise#431
She has a pin sharp, simple message (eat the rich) and the ability to answer any question with her message which think connects with the Democratic base.
As Biden continues to fuck up his enourmas lead has to go somewhere and I don't see Biden backers switching to Sanders.0 -
Er... which is relevant how?HYUFD said:
The Brexit Party were second in Scotland in the European Parliament electionsSouthamObserver said:
Saving the bankers came with saving the banks. That was absolutely necessary and is not the same thing as being their friends. However, putting that aside I think you'll struggle to argue that the Labour party now is led by the same kind of people who were leading it in 2008. Totally agree on Johnson and Scotland. The right-wing English nationalism he has embraced at the behest of Bannon and the utter uselessness of Scottish Labour are both gifts to the SNP. I suspect the LibDems may also benefit.StuartDickson said:
That’s hardly a PPB for the Labour Party when it was your very own Gordon Brown who gleefully saved the bankers.SouthamObserver said:We learned once again from those Birmingham hustings why Johnson avoids scrutiny at every opportunity.
There now follows a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party ...
https://twitter.com/ofocbrexit/status/1142492050119692290?s=21
But rest-assured that the SNP will be using this Boris quote. Boris is quite simply a gift that keeps on giving. Ruth is in despair.
We were talking about the Boris bankers gaffe, Gordon Brown and Scottish independence.
Some of your Scottish comments are a bit freestyle/surreal. BXP fixation.0 -
All the Brexiteers who whine it was about Sovereignty, not economics, haven't yet made the logical connection to that argument in Scotland...AlastairMeeks said:I’m not sure that “we’ve wrecked the UK, now don’t you see why Scotland should stay part of it” is a referendum-winning platform.
0 -
OK being very sunny side up -Recidivist said:I think that was true last year. I think the damage to democracy has already happened. We may well be better able to repair it inside the EU than out of it.
Another referendum which Remain wins by a big margin - none of this 52/48 business - and so we stay in the EU but get something sorted on free movement.
Subsequent GE sees a party advocating Leave again and they do poorly.
Onwards and upwards.
Something like this would be good from here. But I have to force myself to believe it.0 -
Whereas many would consider Corbyn to stop Boris. I’d think about it myself.Casino_Royale said:
I don't think that's true at all.kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
Voters would rally around Hunt to stop Corbyn.0 -
Dunno, 'HMG comprehensively fucked up Brexit and would even more comprehensively fuck up Scoxit' seems like a winner to me.AlastairMeeks said:
I’m not sure that “we’ve wrecked the UK, now don’t you see why Scotland should stay part of it” is a referendum-winning platform.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, it's bollocks though.AlastairMeeks said:
The idea that Scots will flock to independence after the car crash of Brexit over the last three years, which the breakup of the UK would make look like a picnic, is fanciful in the extreme.
0 -
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.0 -
Citation required.Scott_P said:
All the Brexiteers who whine it was about Sovereignty, not economics, haven't yet made the logical connection to that argument in Scotland...AlastairMeeks said:I’m not sure that “we’ve wrecked the UK, now don’t you see why Scotland should stay part of it” is a referendum-winning platform.
0 -
Problem is the wrong sides winning..StuartDickson said:
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.0 -
Why is it about the Tory party rather than what’s best for the country?kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
The shredding of the incriminating evidence has begun.
https://twitter.com/nwbrux/status/11426674361787596800 -
Always has been, always will be.nichomar said:
Why is it about the Tory party rather than what’s best for the country?kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
If there is no point in discussing it with people who have established positions why are Hunt and Boris on a 20+ date tour of the country?HYUFD said:
I have told you umpteen times as he believes in Brexit and will deliver it and a FTA for GB.Nigel_Foremain said:I'm still waiting Mr HYUFD. I am still a member of the party that used to claim to be Conservative and Unionist, and I have a vote in this highly undemocratic process. Tell me why I should think Boris should be PM (not just leader of the Party), or at the very least why I should not fear his incompetence in that position?
However as you are a diehard Remainer you will obviously be voting for Hunt so it is pointless discussing it further with you
Your problem is that you have chosen to believe one set of pronouncements by Boris and are taking that as gospel whereas you know perfectly well you can’t trust a thing he says.1 -
‘Twas ever thus in civil war.Slackbladder said:
Problem is the wrong sides winning..StuartDickson said:
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.0 -
That's the only thing it's been about for some time now.nichomar said:
Why is it about the Tory party rather than what’s best for the country?kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
Though the leavers haven’t been fighting each other for three decades....StuartDickson said:
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.
0 -
Yes we had the referendum to stop the tories losing seats. They should have said if the country wants leave the Eu they can vote for a party with that policy. It wouldn’t have happened but the tories might have lost, who knows but it’s better than where we are nowStuartDickson said:
Always has been, always will be.nichomar said:
Why is it about the Tory party rather than what’s best for the country?kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.0 -
She can continue to rise at the expense of Sanders.Alistair said:
As a person who is green on Warren I hope so.rottenborough said:Can Warren Continue to Rise?
https://cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/can-warren-continue-rise#431
She has a pin sharp, simple message (eat the rich) and the ability to answer any question with her message which think connects with the Democratic base.
As Biden continues to fuck up his enourmas lead has to go somewhere and I don't see Biden backers switching to Sanders.
Biden’s support is of a different order, and will be resilient to gaffes... until it isn’t. Or rather, until older Democrats start to doubt that he is their best chance of beating Trump.
538 have a good piece on this, which seems intuitively correct:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-will-bidens-latest-comments-affect-his-standing-in-the-democratic-primary/
In fact, Biden’s comments might reinforce one thing some black voters like about him: Biden might be relatable to people with some racist views, making Biden more electable than, say, a black candidate. It’s hard to get at these dynamics in formal polls. But in interviews I’ve done (and other reporters have found this as well), black voters often express the view that the U.S. elections in 2008 and 2012 were somewhat of an anomaly (that Americans would elect a black president). For them, 2016 was a return to normal (Americans elected a president who had expressed some anti-black sentiments). One of the challenges for Harris’s campaign in particular has been that many African-Americans voters, having watched the hatred of Obama from some Republicans and then Trump’s victory, believe that America is too racist and sexist to elect a black female president....
0 -
Because that’s politics , the Tory party is essentially an election winning machine . It is thenichomar said:
Why is it about the Tory party rather than what’s best for the country?kjohnw said:
And Hunt would lose to Corbyn and probably end up revoking brexit , the BXP would then destroy what is left of the Tory party . Its Boris or nothingCasino_Royale said:
I'm a Leaver and I'd vote for Hunt.HYUFD said:
Yes we know almost all the Remainers on PB would vote for Jeremy Hunt by a landslide but most Tory members and indeed 52% of the voters are LeaversThe_Taxman said:TSE is right, Boris is not the Messiah!
It is time for Tory members to ditch the rose tinted specticles and see Boris for the inarticulate bufoon the rest of us can see. He has poor judgement, impulsive behaviour and no empathy for the people he intends to govern. He is completely out of touch with those who make or break political parties in marginal seats at a GE.
Jeremy Hunt is by far the better candidate. Tory members should back him.
raison d'être For why they exist. And to stop us becoming a socialist republic of ofcourse0 -
Its interesting that Dr Fox tells us the truth at this point: he hasn't called out any of the leave BS before. None of these bloody people put the country first, its all about self-interest.StuartDickson said:
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.0 -
Civil war is like that. The organisation(s) involved eventually eat themselves. Look at how complicated many internal conflicts become. Libya good modern example.Nigelb said:
Though the leavers haven’t been fighting each other for three decades....StuartDickson said:
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.0 -
What, 'chaos with Ed Miliband' would have been better than this? Surely not!nichomar said:Yes we had the referendum to stop the tories losing seats. They should have said if the country wants leave the Eu they can vote for a party with that policy. It wouldn’t have happened but the tories might have lost, who knows but it’s better than where we are now
0 -
A question for all the experts on here. If I wanted to wipe out the Conservative Party, could you beat this scenario -
- A rival party on the right with a grievance to play on that resonates with Tory supporters.
- A Labour Party with a programme that appeals strongly to its base and which motivates its activists.
- A controversial leader with a backstory that repels large chunks of potential supporters.
- A Lib Dem revival on the back of advocating a policy that appeals to a large chunk of the Tory base which is located in geographical areas where the Conservatives hold a lot of seats.
0 -
Unless a Napoleon, Cromwell or Lenin figure gets a grip and puts to the sword the more radical of their own side. Can’t see Boris rising to that challenge, for sure.StuartDickson said:
Civil war is like that. The organisation(s) involved eventually eat themselves. Look at how complicated many internal conflicts become. Libya good modern example.Nigelb said:
Though the leavers haven’t been fighting each other for three decades....StuartDickson said:
Saw that. It was vicious.CarlottaVance said:
The Tory civil war is still in full stride. Going on for over three decades now. The end is nigh.0 -
A Tony Blair type figure (for the current age) would be a better bet at point two.Recidivist said:A question for all the experts on here. If I wanted to wipe out the Conservative Party, could you beat this scenario -
- A rival party on the right with a grievance to play on that resonates with Tory supporters.
- A Labour Party with a programme that appeals strongly to its base and which motivates its activists.
- A controversial leader with a backstory that repels large chunks of potential supporters.
- A Lib Dem revival on the back of advocating a policy that appeals to a large chunk of the Tory base which is located in geographical areas where the Conservatives hold a lot of seats.0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
Better for the Labour vote certainly. But it might not cost the blues quite so many seats.IanB2 said:
A Tony Blair type figure (for the current age) would be a better bet at point two.Recidivist said:A question for all the experts on here. If I wanted to wipe out the Conservative Party, could you beat this scenario -
- A rival party on the right with a grievance to play on that resonates with Tory supporters.
- A Labour Party with a programme that appeals strongly to its base and which motivates its activists.
- A controversial leader with a backstory that repels large chunks of potential supporters.
- A Lib Dem revival on the back of advocating a policy that appeals to a large chunk of the Tory base which is located in geographical areas where the Conservatives hold a lot of seats.0 -
You forgot to add in a ticking clock where something has to happen, and delay incurs a huge political cost.Recidivist said:A question for all the experts on here. If I wanted to wipe out the Conservative Party, could you beat this scenario -
- A rival party on the right with a grievance to play on that resonates with Tory supporters.
- A Labour Party with a programme that appeals strongly to its base and which motivates its activists.
- A controversial leader with a backstory that repels large chunks of potential supporters.
- A Lib Dem revival on the back of advocating a policy that appeals to a large chunk of the Tory base which is located in geographical areas where the Conservatives hold a lot of seats.0 -
A very good point.williamglenn said:
You forgot to add in a ticking clock where something has to happen, and delay incurs a huge political cost.Recidivist said:A question for all the experts on here. If I wanted to wipe out the Conservative Party, could you beat this scenario -
- A rival party on the right with a grievance to play on that resonates with Tory supporters.
- A Labour Party with a programme that appeals strongly to its base and which motivates its activists.
- A controversial leader with a backstory that repels large chunks of potential supporters.
- A Lib Dem revival on the back of advocating a policy that appeals to a large chunk of the Tory base which is located in geographical areas where the Conservatives hold a lot of seats.0
