politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit: Some Inconvenient Facts that the Tories need to face
Comments
-
'The movement' is screaming that is it?EPG said:Why are there no privacy issues? Because he wants the power to rule over you. The Brexit movement can't demand Queensberry rules of politics out of one side of its face, and scream "death to traitors" out of the other.
0 -
If they did as a result of the possible Labour policy articulated earlier it would actually be more honest. Second referendum at first seemed right but I now think referendums don’t work in a parliamentary democracy on complex issues and political parties should stand by their convictions at the ballot box. Cameron promised the first referendum to stave of UKIP but he really should have faced them up.kinabalu said:Just thinking - if (when) Labour commit to Ref2 will the Lib Dems move to Revoke in order to out-remain them?
0 -
If a motion of no confidence is tabled it takes priority over other motions and will (I believe) be voted on the next day. So "a couple of days" is more than long enough to hold a vote.DecrepitJohnL said:
The point is that the Conservative leadership election is scheduled to end 22 July. Boris (or Hunt) will become Prime Minister, and the Commons will rise a couple of days later so there will be no time to no-confidence Boris (or Hunt). Of course, that can be done later but the bookmakers will have paid out by then.Mysticrose said:
Bizarre.DecrepitJohnL said:New fact 18 with a bearing on fact 11 and the discussion FPT on whether May can commend Boris to the Palace. MPs will be on holiday in August.
https://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/business-faq-page/recess-dates/
This means MPs will not be able to no-confidence the new Prime Minister, Boris, Hunt or Corbyn, and will have limited time to block no-deal Brexit (assuming either Boris or Hunt really wants that, which is open to doubt).
5th September to October 15th is six weeks. More than ample time for a Vote of No Confidence.
We had all this guff before about Parliament 'not being able to prevent No Deal / Brexit blah blah.'
They did. And they will.
If the vote fails then it is moot. If the vote passes then the Commons has 14 days to sort an alternative out or head into a General Elections - so I can't see them going into recess while that is happening.0 -
Wee Fraser obviously had second thoughts.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
https://twitter.com/_p3te/status/1142437024135360513
If all the people are right who are saying it's a storm in a wineglass, nothing to see (or hear) here, surely the recording will confirm that?0 -
A certain unanimity of opinion in the twitter responses to the Nelson tweettlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
0 -
Recording it for the Police or Council is one thing. Recording it then selling/giving it to the Guardian? That's something different.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=201 -
0
-
You know what...I agree with Nick. Got it in four.NickPalmer said:
My expectation of the Boris gameplan (not based on any inside information) is:algarkirk said:All true. Examination of the issues shows that to leave the EU TMs deal is still the only option, and it must be likely that with the use of smoke and mirrors that is what Boris, if given the chance, will try. But will he get the chance?
The lengthy list leaves out a central issue: assuming Boris wins can he get to the starting gate of forming a stable government and winning an early VONC? I think there must be a bit of doubt. The DUP are not reliable, and he would only need a small number of implacable foes on his own side to be defeated. Could this become an issue in the campaign between Hunt and Boris?
1. Embellish the existing WA with smoke and mirrors, just as you say. Lots of lovely promises in the political declaration. Fierce proclamations. Disparaging personal attacks on anyone who disagrees. The EU perceives the same old WA through the smoke, rolls its eyes and lets him try.
2. If Parliament passes it, fine. Onwards! Upwards!
3. If Parliament votes it down, call an election. "Enough is enough", "let's get it done", "speak for Britain", etc etc. Boris will gamble that he can win by force of personality. Deselect anyone who dissents, call them something like "nasty nitpicking nonentities". Take on Farage and Corbyn in debate, and deploy bluster.
4. If he wins, fabulous for him. If he loses, oh well, it was fun anyway.0 -
Doesn't it make it a hassle to sell the house if you do that? My friend had the same issue, but I think it meant he had to declare it to any prospective buyer if he got the council involvedJosiasJessop said:
A friend (yes, really) had trouble with a very inconsiderate, noisy neighbour. The council noise abatement officer asked them to keep a diary of the noise and, if possible, record examples.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
You can even get apps for it.
https://www.thenoiseapp.com/#/
It might just be that this neighbour had had problems before the happy couple moved in.0 -
Where is this flat ?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
I wonder if Boris is claiming any sort of accommodation allowance from Parliament.
You can get a nice 4 bed detached for not much more than half a mill in his constituency
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72333976.html0 -
Is there no right to privacy if you have the curtains open? Can papparazi photograph you inside your home and publish it?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=200 -
Whether it is the “right thing to do” or not, recording ambient sound in your own household can in no way be described as ‘snooping’.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
1 -
Facts can be wilfully discounted when there's a belief system in place contrary to them...Foxy said:
@Cyclefree has that inconvenient ability to keep bringing facts into the discussion...AlastairMeeks said:All so true. No one is listening. No one will listen until it is too late.
0 -
Can you disturb your neighbours in their own homes and claim a right to be ignored ?Philip_Thompson said:
Is there no right to privacy if you have the curtains open? Can papparazi photograph you inside your home and publish it?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
0 -
+1JohnO said:
You know what...I agree with Nick. Got it in four.NickPalmer said:
My expectation of the Boris gameplan (not based on any inside information) is:algarkirk said:All true. Examination of the issues shows that to leave the EU TMs deal is still the only option, and it must be likely that with the use of smoke and mirrors that is what Boris, if given the chance, will try. But will he get the chance?
The lengthy list leaves out a central issue: assuming Boris wins can he get to the starting gate of forming a stable government and winning an early VONC? I think there must be a bit of doubt. The DUP are not reliable, and he would only need a small number of implacable foes on his own side to be defeated. Could this become an issue in the campaign between Hunt and Boris?
1. Embellish the existing WA with smoke and mirrors, just as you say. Lots of lovely promises in the political declaration. Fierce proclamations. Disparaging personal attacks on anyone who disagrees. The EU perceives the same old WA through the smoke, rolls its eyes and lets him try.
2. If Parliament passes it, fine. Onwards! Upwards!
3. If Parliament votes it down, call an election. "Enough is enough", "let's get it done", "speak for Britain", etc etc. Boris will gamble that he can win by force of personality. Deselect anyone who dissents, call them something like "nasty nitpicking nonentities". Take on Farage and Corbyn in debate, and deploy bluster.
4. If he wins, fabulous for him. If he loses, oh well, it was fun anyway.0 -
Camberwell.another_richard said:
Where is this flat ?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
I wonder if Boris is claiming any sort of accommodation allowance from Parliament.
You can get a nice 4 bed detached for not much more than half a mill in his constituency
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72333976.html0 -
Two very different issues there.Stark_Dawning said:
On Nelson's 'reasoning' the photo of Saatchi grabbing Nigella by the throat should never have been published. Which is odd considering that the Spectator wanted to set up a fight over it.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/01/taki-step-outside-mr-saatchi/
The Saatchi/Nigella issue showed domestic violence. This is an argument nothing more (as the Police have confirmed).
The Saatchi/Nigella photo was taken in public. Not in somebodies home.0 -
Giving sounds from your neighbours home to a newspaper certainly can be.Nigelb said:
Whether it is the “right thing to do” or not, recording ambient sound in your own household can in no way be described as ‘snooping’.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=200 -
I feel the same. I want to Remain but I do not want a 2nd Referendum. And I do not want a 2nd Referendum more than I want to Remain. Therefore my preference is for the Withdrawal Agreement.nichomar said:If they did as a result of the possible Labour policy articulated earlier it would actually be more honest. Second referendum at first seemed right but I now think referendums don’t work in a parliamentary democracy on complex issues and political parties should stand by their convictions at the ballot box. Cameron promised the first referendum to stave of UKIP but he really should have faced them up.
0 -
I have been quite clear that I don't trust Boris or want him as PM. But this attempted take down by the nosey neighbours and the Grauniad has given me considerable sympathy for him.0
-
Which is something I deprecated when it happened.Philip_Thompson said:
Giving sounds from your neighbours home to a newspaper certainly can be.Nigelb said:
Whether it is the “right thing to do” or not, recording ambient sound in your own household can in no way be described as ‘snooping’.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
(Though legally I’m not sure there’s any way of preventing their doing so, and ‘snooping’ is still inaccurate.)
0 -
The posh name for Peckhamtlg86 said:
Camberwell.another_richard said:
Where is this flat ?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
I wonder if Boris is claiming any sort of accommodation allowance from Parliament.
You can get a nice 4 bed detached for not much more than half a mill in his constituency
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72333976.html
Does Boris have a constituency home ?0 -
Not sure, I thought he had a place in Oxfordshire. Didn’t he vote there in the local elections in May?another_richard said:
The posh name for Peckhamtlg86 said:
Camberwell.another_richard said:
Where is this flat ?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
I wonder if Boris is claiming any sort of accommodation allowance from Parliament.
You can get a nice 4 bed detached for not much more than half a mill in his constituency
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72333976.html
Does Boris have a constituency home ?0 -
I don't know, although it wouldn't surprise me. My friend and her husband were renting, so that wouldn't have applied. I've no idea if they ever got the landlord of their place involved.isam said:
Doesn't it make it a hassle to sell the house if you do that? My friend had the same issue, but I think it meant he had to declare it to any prospective buyer if he got the council involvedJosiasJessop said:
A friend (yes, really) had trouble with a very inconsiderate, noisy neighbour. The council noise abatement officer asked them to keep a diary of the noise and, if possible, record examples.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
You can even get apps for it.
https://www.thenoiseapp.com/#/
It might just be that this neighbour had had problems before the happy couple moved in.
They did say that the noise was a real blight on their lives for months.
(Even if this is the case for these neighbours, and Boris and his gf have been making noise regularly, I'm rather dubious about them informing the media about it.)0 -
-
-
Just because you can see or hear a neighbour doesn't mean they don't have a right to privacy.Nigelb said:
Which is something I deprecated when it happened.Philip_Thompson said:
Giving sounds from your neighbours home to a newspaper certainly can be.Nigelb said:
Whether it is the “right thing to do” or not, recording ambient sound in your own household can in no way be described as ‘snooping’.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
(Though legally I’m not sure there’s any way of preventing their doing so, and ‘snooping’ is still inaccurate.)
Looking out of your own window it can be possible to look into neighbours homes (through their windows) or gardens. Would filming that be acceptable or snooping?
I once was looking out of my window at the road waiting for someone to pull up I saw the nextdoor neighbour walk past her window wearing nothing but a towel. I hurriedly averted my eyes. If instead I'd grabbed a camera . . . that would IMO be a major invasion of privacy. If I'd put that on the internet or sold it to a paper if she'd been a celebrity then "snooping" is the least offensive word I would use.0 -
More interesting: I wonder how long their rental period is: did Boris make an assumption he'd be moving out in a few months?another_richard said:
Where is this flat ?Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
I wonder if Boris is claiming any sort of accommodation allowance from Parliament.
You can get a nice 4 bed detached for not much more than half a mill in his constituency
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-72333976.html
(Assuming it wasn't his gf's flat and he moved in.)0 -
-
-
How long will it take for people desperate for Boris to make a gaffe to stop feigning astonishment that he is trying to play it straight?Scott_P said:0 -
-
-
Dear DeidrePhilip_Thompson said:
Just because you can see or hear a neighbour doesn't mean they don't have a right to privacy.Nigelb said:
Which is something I deprecated when it happened.Philip_Thompson said:
Giving sounds from your neighbours home to a newspaper certainly can be.Nigelb said:
Whether it is the “right thing to do” or not, recording ambient sound in your own household can in no way be described as ‘snooping’.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
(Though legally I’m not sure there’s any way of preventing their doing so, and ‘snooping’ is still inaccurate.)
Looking out of your own window it can be possible to look into neighbours homes (through their windows) or gardens. Would filming that be acceptable or snooping?
I once was looking out of my window at the road waiting for someone to pull up I saw the nextdoor neighbour walk past her window wearing nothing but a towel. I hurriedly averted my eyes. If instead I'd grabbed a camera . . . that would IMO be a major invasion of privacy. If I'd put that on the internet or sold it to a paper if she'd been a celebrity then "snooping" is the least offensive word I would use.
I was watching my next door neighbour's daughter sunbathing topless from my bedroom window.
As I was knocking one out I turned to notice my wife just stood there, arms folded...watching me.
Is my wife a pervert?0 -
The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.0
-
Weren't the "buses" an expensive disaster costing Londoners a lot of unnecessary money? An example of him making a promise, and following through on it, yes, but a promise he should never have made in the first place without understanding properly what the promise would involve.Scott_P said:
Wonder if there's anything else he's made a promise on which might ultimately turn out to be an ill-thought out disaster...0 -
If your neighbours can hear you rowing after midnight loud enough to make out the words, I suspect you have forfeited your right to privacy - meanwhile lots of entertaining speculation about what "high tech equipment" these "ultra Remainer neighbours" had from the apologists....."through brick walls" - they even know the construction of the property......tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=200 -
-
The tweets you are pasting -- do these relate to the hustings this afternoon?Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
0 -
I have zero sympathy. He spilled red wine on a sofa that does not belong to him and then tried to make light of it. Guy who does that is quite capable of mishandling Brexit. Best we know now.Luckyguy1983 said:I have been quite clear that I don't trust Boris or want him as PM. But this attempted take down by the nosey neighbours and the Grauniad has given me considerable sympathy for him.
0 -
-
Knocking one out? A newspaper column, I assume?isam said:
Dear DeidrePhilip_Thompson said:
Just because you can see or hear a neighbour doesn't mean they don't have a right to privacy.Nigelb said:
Which is something I deprecated when it happened.Philip_Thompson said:
Giving sounds from your neighbours home to a newspaper certainly can be.Nigelb said:
Whether it is the “right thing to do” or not, recording ambient sound in your own household can in no way be described as ‘snooping’.tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
(Though legally I’m not sure there’s any way of preventing their doing so, and ‘snooping’ is still inaccurate.)
Looking out of your own window it can be possible to look into neighbours homes (through their windows) or gardens. Would filming that be acceptable or snooping?
I once was looking out of my window at the road waiting for someone to pull up I saw the nextdoor neighbour walk past her window wearing nothing but a towel. I hurriedly averted my eyes. If instead I'd grabbed a camera . . . that would IMO be a major invasion of privacy. If I'd put that on the internet or sold it to a paper if she'd been a celebrity then "snooping" is the least offensive word I would use.
I was watching my next door neighbour's daughter sunbathing topless from my bedroom window.
As I was knocking one out I turned to notice my wife just stood there, arms folded...watching me.
Is my wife a pervert?
0 -
yes, happening nowDecrepitJohnL said:The tweets you are pasting -- do these relate to the hustings this afternoon?
0 -
Like? Perhaps. Exactly like? No. Why do journalists always seek to overstate things.Scott_P said:0 -
She’s a nasty piece of work.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It's probably just the engineering geek in me, but there's loads of interesting questions about that. Are the flats in totally separate buildings (and hence might have brick/block party walls between them), or a subdivided house, in which case the divisions between them might be rather thin, especially if the division was done before modern fire regs.CarlottaVance said:
If your neighbours can hear you rowing after midnight loud enough to make out the words, I suspect you have forfeited your right to privacy - meanwhile lots of entertaining speculation about what "high tech equipment" these "ultra Remainer neighbours" had from the apologists....."through brick walls" - they even know the construction of the property......tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
Doesn't really effect the facts of the incident, though.0 -
"The best lack all conviction, while the worstisam said:
In contemporary politics, every side thinks they are the only sane ones. Quite awful really, diversity of opinion is not allowed, all dissenters are mentally ill or dupes.Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
Are full of passionate intensity."
That, and
"My country is Kiltartan Cross,
My countrymen Kiltartan's poor,
No likely end could bring them loss
Or leave them happier than before."
are things I think pretty much every day in relation to Brexit. The Irish perspective is very valuable
0 -
-
Haven’t they already confirmed they attended a call, and no arrests were made?Scott_P said:0 -
If a cult of Jo Swinson could be engineered we would very soon have a full house of parties with cult leaders. If however the LDs could stay sounding even slightly normal they could cash in as the only refuge for people who aren't a bit weird, and who aren't cultists, Marxists, nationalists (pick your own English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish varieties), religious extremists (let's hear it for the DUP) or otherwise deranged.Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
What price they could be in power?0 -
Agree it’s cult-like, what with the booing of the press. What it isn’t is exactly like a religious cult. Otherwise it’d be a religious cult.AlastairMeeks said:
0 -
There was an interesting article in yesterday's Economist about Leavers and Remainers. The Remain vote is far more concentrated than the Leave vote. There are 15 constituencies where Remain won 75%+, but only one where Leave did so well. The author thought it helped Leavers that they are exposed to the opinions of Remainers, whereas it's disadvantageous to Remainers that many of them don't get to encounter Leavers at all.isam said:
In contemporary politics, every side thinks they are the only sane ones. Quite awful really, diversity of opinion is not allowed, all dissenters are mentally ill or dupes.Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
1 -
Trade union (or big donor) influence, people who control the direction (whether that’s NEC or CCO) are all fair gameTheuniondivvie said:
Funny, some folk on here seem to fixate on the legal structure of the Labour party, trade union influence and who holds the reins of power in the NEC. Perhaps they should find a new line of attack.Charles said:
Word of advice. The legal structure of a political party is the ultimate process issue.nichomar said:The UK will not elect a single issue Ltd company to power and hand them a blank cheque. I’m afraid no one is going to take to the streets in any numbers to fight for no deal. The world out there is not obsessed by this.
No one at Westminster cares, no one in the country cares (except you I guess). It will shift precisely zero votes.
If you want to be effective, suggest you find a new line of attack
Whether a political party is a limited company, an association, a company limited by guarantee or whatever seems an odd focus for me
(Of course the real motive for my post is that @nichomar mentions it almost every post and it’s rather boring to read again and again!)0 -
AIUI (might be wrong), they initially denied it, until the Guardian gave them details of the vehicles that attended. They then gave a different story.RobD said:
Haven’t they already confirmed they attended a call, and no arrests were made?Scott_P said:
If it's correct, that doesn't seem a good thing for the police to be doing.0 -
HYUFD's wonderful YouGov had BXP on 37% for the Euros - they got 31%. That is some overstatement well outside the margin of error1
-
From the photographs of the front door it looks like it may be a conversion - but we're speculating, just as the people who assume that the neighbours who had "specialist equipment to record through brick walls".JosiasJessop said:
It's probably just the engineering geek in me, but there's loads of interesting questions about that. Are the flats in totally separate buildings (and hence might have brick/block party walls between them), or a subdivided house, in which case the divisions between them might be rather thin, especially if the division was done before modern fire regs.CarlottaVance said:
If your neighbours can hear you rowing after midnight loud enough to make out the words, I suspect you have forfeited your right to privacy - meanwhile lots of entertaining speculation about what "high tech equipment" these "ultra Remainer neighbours" had from the apologists....."through brick walls" - they even know the construction of the property......tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=200 -
Sure - Farage’s control of the party is a fair point of concern (as is data ownership etc). The precise mechanism seems an odd focus.AlastairMeeks said:
I’m sure you were just as relaxed about Arthur Scargill being president for life of the NUM.Charles said:
Ok, fine. Won’t have any impact but do what you want to do.nichomar said:
Well a party with 5/6 members in complete control of its effective CEO with no policy apart from brexit no deal needs to be stated time and time again because it is not a ‘normal’ political party and in no way should be trusted with power.Charles said:
Word of advice. The legal structure of a political party is the ultimate process issue.nichomar said:The UK will not elect a single issue Ltd company to power and hand them a blank cheque. I’m afraid no one is going to take to the streets in any numbers to fight for no deal. The world out there is not obsessed by this.
No one at Westminster cares, no one in the country cares (except you I guess). It will shift precisely zero votes.
If you want to be effective, suggest you find a new line of attack
It is rather odd that a party that claims to be about ensuring democracy is a lifetime dictatorship.0 -
There have been many very odd Lib Dems, over the years.algarkirk said:
If a cult of Jo Swinson could be engineered we would very soon have a full house of parties with cult leaders. If however the LDs could stay sounding even slightly normal they could cash in as the only refuge for people who aren't a bit weird, and who aren't cultists, Marxists, nationalists (pick your own English, Welsh, Irish and Scottish varieties), religious extremists (let's hear it for the DUP) or otherwise deranged.Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
What price they could be in power?
0 -
You can easily hear people shouting through solid brick walls, as anyone who lives in a terraced house or semi can tell you. FWIW If I heard a woman screaming "get off me" I would be worried and might well record it for evidence if I had the presence of mind.JosiasJessop said:
It's probably just the engineering geek in me, but there's loads of interesting questions about that. Are the flats in totally separate buildings (and hence might have brick/block party walls between them), or a subdivided house, in which case the divisions between them might be rather thin, especially if the division was done before modern fire regs.CarlottaVance said:
If your neighbours can hear you rowing after midnight loud enough to make out the words, I suspect you have forfeited your right to privacy - meanwhile lots of entertaining speculation about what "high tech equipment" these "ultra Remainer neighbours" had from the apologists....."through brick walls" - they even know the construction of the property......tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
Doesn't really effect the facts of the incident, though.0 -
At the next GE, Labour and the the Tories will be offering us the choice of two lazy racists who do not believe they should be subjected to scrutiny. No wonder other parties are doing so well currently.0
-
-
-
-
I doubt there is anything that Boris could now do to lose. It doesn't matter that he is caught lying or recorded shouting or whatever he does tomorrow or next week. The Tory party selectorate - happy as they are to destroy the Union the economy and the party to achieve Brexit - simply do not care about anything that isn't Brexit.
Their view is that Boris is the only option to deliver Brexit and so they will vote for Boris. Regardless of what the next scandal turns out to be.0 -
I’m sorry but most couples row, it’s normal , he spilt wine on the sofa , they had a tiff, so what , he hasn’t beaten her up , she may have lost her temper , you wanna year my wife when I’m in the doghouse, this is all so overblown , it’s become a media feeding frenzy over a non event , with politically motivated neighbours who sold the recording to the guardian invading their neighbours basic privacy rights. Why not just call the police if you are so concerned ?? It’s a circus motivated to bring down BorisScott_P said:0 -
Is she talking about the leadership of her party?RobD said:
She’s a nasty piece of work.CarlottaVance said:0 -
-
Not much of a surprise that the police have managed to come out of this looking bad.JosiasJessop said:
AIUI (might be wrong), they initially denied it, until the Guardian gave them details of the vehicles that attended. They then gave a different story.RobD said:
Haven’t they already confirmed they attended a call, and no arrests were made?Scott_P said:
If it's correct, that doesn't seem a good thing for the police to be doing.0 -
I don't even like Boris, but this story is shit. People argue.kjohnw said:
I’m sorry but most couples row, it’s normal , he spilt wine on the sofa , they had a tiff, so what , he hasn’t beaten her up , she may have lost her temper , you wanna year my wife when I’m in the doghouse, this is all so overblown , it’s become a media feeding frenzy over a non event , with politically motivated neighbours who sold the recording to the guardian invading their neighbours basic privacy rights. Why not just call the police if you are so concerned ?? It’s a circus motivated to bring down BorisScott_P said:0 -
Yougov was actually pretty close to the final result as opposed to Survation whose final poll had Labour on 23% for the European elections compared to the 14% they got.MikeSmithson said:HYUFD's wonderful YouGov had BXP on 37% for the Euros - they got 31%. That is some overstatement well outside the margin of error
Yougov also had the LDs correctly in second place though they underestimated the Tories and Labour a little bit0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: pre-race article likely up tomorrow, though I'll do the preamble now. Considering backing Vettel to not be classified. Was tempted by Leclerc on that score in Monaco and decided against it. When a driver's head isn't screwed on right, things can go sideways quickly.1 -
Iain Dale doing a good job of moderating - puncturing Boris's blustery answers with direct on the point questions.0
-
Yep, YouGov called it pretty much spot on - except for the BXP result, which was way beyond the margin of error. With that in mind, it's worth noting that in its latest poll, Labour+LibDem+Green = 50%. That's a lot of scope for tactical voting if Johnson decides to call an early election.HYUFD said:
Yougov was actually pretty close to the final result as opposed to Survation whose final poll had Labour ahead for the European elections.MikeSmithson said:HYUFD's wonderful YouGov had BXP on 37% for the Euros - they got 31%. That is some overstatement well outside the margin of error
Yougov also had the LDs correctly in second place though they underestimated the Tories and Labour a little bit
0 -
I wonder if you then differentiate further on socioeconomic lines what the numbers will be.Sean_F said:
There was an interesting article in yesterday's Economist about Leavers and Remainers. The Remain vote is far more concentrated than the Leave vote. There are 15 constituencies where Remain won 75%+, but only one where Leave did so well. The author thought it helped Leavers that they are exposed to the opinions of Remainers, whereas it's disadvantageous to Remainers that many of them don't get to encounter Leavers at all.isam said:
In contemporary politics, every side thinks they are the only sane ones. Quite awful really, diversity of opinion is not allowed, all dissenters are mentally ill or dupes.Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
I suspect the epicentres of middle class Remainers will be even more concentrated.0 -
Though of course even on the actual results converted to FPTP it would have been a Brexit Party landslide outside of London and Scotland and NISouthamObserver said:
Yep, YouGov called it pretty much spot on - except for the BXP result, which was way beyond the margin of error. With that in mind, it's worth noting that in its latest poll, Labour+LibDem+Green = 50%. That's a lot of scope for tactical voting if Johnson decides to call an early election.HYUFD said:
Yougov was actually pretty close to the final result as opposed to Survation whose final poll had Labour ahead for the European elections.MikeSmithson said:HYUFD's wonderful YouGov had BXP on 37% for the Euros - they got 31%. That is some overstatement well outside the margin of error
Yougov also had the LDs correctly in second place though they underestimated the Tories and Labour a little bit0 -
It certainly explains a lot of people's lack of empathy, but seeing as they only talk to themselves or people like them, and dismiss everyone else as some kind of -ist or mentally ill, thick or a cult member etc, they never get to realise how pompous they soundSean_F said:
There was an interesting article in yesterday's Economist about Leavers and Remainers. The Remain vote is far more concentrated than the Leave vote. There are 15 constituencies where Remain won 75%+, but only one where Leave did so well. The author thought it helped Leavers that they are exposed to the opinions of Remainers, whereas it's disadvantageous to Remainers that many of them don't get to encounter Leavers at all.isam said:
In contemporary politics, every side thinks they are the only sane ones. Quite awful really, diversity of opinion is not allowed, all dissenters are mentally ill or dupes.Scott_P said:The cult of BoZo is every bit as mad as the cult of Corbyn.
0 -
If I was Boris I would make a point of taking my girlfriend out for a walk or something in public holding hands having a laugh and showing the press that it was just a lovers tiff , and they are still good. That is all he needs to doSean_F said:
I don't even like Boris, but this story is shit. People argue.kjohnw said:
I’m sorry but most couples row, it’s normal , he spilt wine on the sofa , they had a tiff, so what , he hasn’t beaten her up , she may have lost her temper , you wanna year my wife when I’m in the doghouse, this is all so overblown , it’s become a media feeding frenzy over a non event , with politically motivated neighbours who sold the recording to the guardian invading their neighbours basic privacy rights. Why not just call the police if you are so concerned ?? It’s a circus motivated to bring down BorisScott_P said:0 -
Ssshht. It's not shit for those of us looking to make money out of it.Sean_F said:
I don't even like Boris, but this story is shit. People argue.kjohnw said:
I’m sorry but most couples row, it’s normal , he spilt wine on the sofa , they had a tiff, so what , he hasn’t beaten her up , she may have lost her temper , you wanna year my wife when I’m in the doghouse, this is all so overblown , it’s become a media feeding frenzy over a non event , with politically motivated neighbours who sold the recording to the guardian invading their neighbours basic privacy rights. Why not just call the police if you are so concerned ?? It’s a circus motivated to bring down BorisScott_P said:0 -
The neighbours were puting anti Boris posters with EU stars on them on his car windscreen. Then they recorded an argument, called the police and The Guardian... all perfectly normalkjohnw said:
I’m sorry but most couples row, it’s normal , he spilt wine on the sofa , they had a tiff, so what , he hasn’t beaten her up , she may have lost her temper , you wanna year my wife when I’m in the doghouse, this is all so overblown , it’s become a media feeding frenzy over a non event , with politically motivated neighbours who sold the recording to the guardian invading their neighbours basic privacy rights. Why not just call the police if you are so concerned ?? It’s a circus motivated to bring down BorisScott_P said:0 -
I like Boris, but I think he's utterly unsuited to be PM. This story - though quite amusing in a way - will only appal people who wouldn't vote for him, and it'll reinforce the views of those who would. Therefore it's made his becoming PM more likely, and any killer story about him would have to be stronger than otherwise.RochdalePioneers said:I doubt there is anything that Boris could now do to lose. It doesn't matter that he is caught lying or recorded shouting or whatever he does tomorrow or next week. The Tory party selectorate - happy as they are to destroy the Union the economy and the party to achieve Brexit - simply do not care about anything that isn't Brexit.
Their view is that Boris is the only option to deliver Brexit and so they will vote for Boris. Regardless of what the next scandal turns out to be.
So I expect a Boris premiership, and if it somehow lasts, a few years of small successes and moderate failures that are - according to his fans (hi, HYUFD) amazing successes in a Trumpian way.
And I won't be voting Conservative unless they have a brilliant candidate here.0 -
You should try criticising O'Brien on twitter if you to see what a cult looks likeScott_P said:0 -
Are you saying Farage is a racist who works hard?SouthamObserver said:At the next GE, Labour and the the Tories will be offering us the choice of two lazy racists who do not believe they should be subjected to scrutiny. No wonder other parties are doing so well currently.
0 -
Yep, if my uncle was my aunt I'd be a goldfish.HYUFD said:
Though of course even on the actual results converted to FPTP it would have been a Brexit Party landslide outside of London and Scotland and NISouthamObserver said:
Yep, YouGov called it pretty much spot on - except for the BXP result, which was way beyond the margin of error. With that in mind, it's worth noting that in its latest poll, Labour+LibDem+Green = 50%. That's a lot of scope for tactical voting if Johnson decides to call an early election.HYUFD said:
Yougov was actually pretty close to the final result as opposed to Survation whose final poll had Labour ahead for the European elections.MikeSmithson said:HYUFD's wonderful YouGov had BXP on 37% for the Euros - they got 31%. That is some overstatement well outside the margin of error
Yougov also had the LDs correctly in second place though they underestimated the Tories and Labour a little bit
0 -
Theresa May got away with it.Scott_P said:0 -
Imagine these people when the Queen can't call him in to make him PM in July!Scott_P said:
0 -
0
-
Boris now back in to 1.12 for Leader, 1.13 for PM.0
-
The neighbours said they knocked on the door implying the same buildingJosiasJessop said:
It's probably just the engineering geek in me, but there's loads of interesting questions about that. Are the flats in totally separate buildings (and hence might have brick/block party walls between them), or a subdivided house, in which case the divisions between them might be rather thin, especially if the division was done before modern fire regs.CarlottaVance said:
If your neighbours can hear you rowing after midnight loud enough to make out the words, I suspect you have forfeited your right to privacy - meanwhile lots of entertaining speculation about what "high tech equipment" these "ultra Remainer neighbours" had from the apologists....."through brick walls" - they even know the construction of the property......tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
Doesn't really effect the facts of the incident, though.0 -
Fair point, Farage should be thrown into that mix as well. It's worth remembering, of course, that there are a fair few racists out there who will like the choice on offer, while others will vote tactically to try to stop the racist they dislike most.isam said:
Are you saying Farage is a racist who works hard?SouthamObserver said:At the next GE, Labour and the the Tories will be offering us the choice of two lazy racists who do not believe they should be subjected to scrutiny. No wonder other parties are doing so well currently.
0 -
Yes brexit means brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal except when it’s a crap TM deal . She has been the most lying evasive Tory PM we have had and certainly the worstCasino_Royale said:
Theresa May got away with it.Scott_P said:0 -
It is also possible that on a warm night, they had their windows open.OnlyLivingBoy said:
You can easily hear people shouting through solid brick walls, as anyone who lives in a terraced house or semi can tell you. FWIW If I heard a woman screaming "get off me" I would be worried and might well record it for evidence if I had the presence of mind.JosiasJessop said:
It's probably just the engineering geek in me, but there's loads of interesting questions about that. Are the flats in totally separate buildings (and hence might have brick/block party walls between them), or a subdivided house, in which case the divisions between them might be rather thin, especially if the division was done before modern fire regs.CarlottaVance said:
If your neighbours can hear you rowing after midnight loud enough to make out the words, I suspect you have forfeited your right to privacy - meanwhile lots of entertaining speculation about what "high tech equipment" these "ultra Remainer neighbours" had from the apologists....."through brick walls" - they even know the construction of the property......tlg86 said:
Indeed. I’d say recording it is the right thing to do. If it is serious it could be used in a subsequent court case. The problem here is that we all now want to hear the tape. Should it be released to prove it exists? I don’t know.Harris_Tweed said:While I have no doubt about the headline’s thrust (politically motivated), I think Fraser’s being a touch harsh here. The right to privacy is somewhat weakened if you scream so loudly it can be heard outside your property, IMO.
https://twitter.com/FraserNelson/status/1142433485359112193?s=20
Doesn't really effect the facts of the incident, though.0 -
I know someone who's uncle is now his aunt.SouthamObserver said:
Yep, if my uncle was my aunt I'd be a goldfish.HYUFD said:
Though of course even on the actual results converted to FPTP it would have been a Brexit Party landslide outside of London and Scotland and NISouthamObserver said:
Yep, YouGov called it pretty much spot on - except for the BXP result, which was way beyond the margin of error. With that in mind, it's worth noting that in its latest poll, Labour+LibDem+Green = 50%. That's a lot of scope for tactical voting if Johnson decides to call an early election.HYUFD said:
Yougov was actually pretty close to the final result as opposed to Survation whose final poll had Labour ahead for the European elections.MikeSmithson said:HYUFD's wonderful YouGov had BXP on 37% for the Euros - they got 31%. That is some overstatement well outside the margin of error
Yougov also had the LDs correctly in second place though they underestimated the Tories and Labour a little bit
Its a phrase which might not be deemed permissible soon.0 -
If the left hadn't banned traditional childrens stories for being sexist/racist etc in the 80s, some of them might have read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1142452909940121600
Sounds familiar...0
