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Comments
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I didn't say English nationalism is crazy, I said I thought it was crazy. It is a perfectly understandable position to take. If crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Is Scottish nationalism crazy? Or is only English nationalism crazy?TOPPING said:I think the concept of English nationalism is consistent of course. But it is a crazy position to take. IMO.
And as @RochdalePioneers has asked, where do you, literally, draw the line for England given its association with its neighbours over the past few centuries?
But the good news is that you prove the concept as you are the very definition of the Little Englander that Cameron said was a typical Leave voter.
I draw the line for England at its current boundaries.
Well yes the logic that drives me to independence in both votes is consistently the same. To me it only logical. If I was a unionist who believed large unions were better than I would back Remain and No on independence.
What strikes me as completely illogical is the people who ardently support one union while opposing the other. EG Tory unionists who want to leave the EU . . . or SNP nationalists who want independence but to stay in the EU. The two positions contradict each other.0 -
If you read The Bad Boys Of Brexit there is a bit where Neil arranges for Banks to meet a group of people who might give him funds. There is no "if" about it.TOPPING said:
He is by all accounts a Brexiter.FF43 said:
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.AlastairMeeks said:
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
Neil has problems. There have been two occasions in the past two years where he has adopted positions that were risible (only UK can make Airbus wings, and the German federal election inconclusive result was the worst constitutional vcrisis since ww2). In both cases he was backed up by sources, but the positions did not withstand inspection. He's smart, but I think he's Wikipedia Metropolitan Elite smart: he repeats positions backed by logic and sources but never stops to check for plausibility or to say "hold on, this is bollocks".
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She didn't and with hindsight this was telling.Chris said:Did Theresa May ever say "We will leave the EU on 29 March, deal or no deal"?
Esther McVey asked her at PMQs -
"Will we be leaving the EU on 29th March ... come what may?"
TM dodged it. A sign that she was not up for No Deal.0 -
Nah - it's the height of arrogance to float in, opine what we should all be talking about, and then drift off again.nichomar said:
I’ve suggested that a couple of times but it’s difficult not to react to some of the outpourings. You find you’ve responded before your ember you where going to resist.NickPalmer said:Glanced in for the latest thinking on the election, and find umpteen posts debating the personal merits of Philip Thompson and anonymous poster Viceroy. Suggestion: let them be whatever they like and let's concentrate on what's happening to our country?
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Fark me, is Ruth Davidson really claiming she never called Boris and Gove liars?
The absolute state of her.0 -
A question that I might have to be careful asking lest it be interpreted as: "Excuse me, if someone was to attack this school, how do you think they would do it? I'm asking for a friend ..."TOPPING said:
You should ask your childrens' school or your workplace about them; there will be someone at those institutions who is the coordinator. The NaCTSO website is a great resource. They run frequent workshops and so forth.JosiasJessop said:
Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a teacher at a private school (not a particularly famous one). A couple of years back she complained she was having to give up a Saturday to go into school to undergo training in what to do if there was an attack.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
One bit, oddly, was learning how to open the secure windows from the inside to allow them to open enough for people to get out. Something they didn't want the children knowing!
I hadn't heard of these sorts of drills, though.
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I am struggling to see what party would want him. Maybe he could squat in the BXP so long as they don’t have any other policies?Nigel_Foremain said:
As I said before, you are definitely not a ConservativePhilip_Thompson said:
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.0 -
I'm a liberal Conservative.Nigel_Foremain said:
As I said before, you are definitely not a Conservative
I am not a soft-C conservative. And as my membership lapsed under illiberal May I am not a member, though I was for well over a decade before she became PM, I am no longer a capital-C Conservative.
I was at Party Conference as a Party Member in 2015 when May gave one of the most disgusting speeches I have ever had the discomfort to sit through. It was BNP redux. I have had no respect for her ever since, I opposed her leadership bid because of that and when she won the leadership I decided I was not renewing my membership.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/06/guardian-view-on-theresa-may-conservative-party-conference-speech-nasty-party0 -
Hi Philip. Your last sentence describes me very well, yet our views from our posts do not coincide at all . Not sure if one of us is horribly wrong or that description can describe a very broad church of people.Philip_Thompson said:
I have backed the Tories on and off my entire adult lifetime. Though I've voted for multiple parties every time I voted for another it was with regret. But I've never been Borg. I have a selection of views I know are a minority within the party.Nigel_Foremain said:
The membership of the Conservative and Unionist Party has been taken over. UKIPites/Faragists/BXP/fascist, call them what you like, but they ain't Conservatives in the true sense. It is like a scene from Star Trek where the Borg take over a planetTOPPING said:
If @Philip_Thompson is a member of the Conservative Party he will I'm sure shortly do the honourable thing and resign once he has read what it is there for and why.RochdalePioneers said:
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or soTOPPING said:
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I am an atheist, liberal republican. I believe in a small state and the power of individualism.0 -
Ask them about NaCTSO I would be amazed, and distressed, if they did not know; it should be part of their security policy and critical incident plan. If they have not put anything together then you must push them to do so.JosiasJessop said:
A question that I might have to be careful asking lest it be interpreted as: "Excuse me, if someone was to attack this school, how do you think they would do it? I'm asking for a friend ..."TOPPING said:
You should ask your childrens' school or your workplace about them; there will be someone at those institutions who is the coordinator. The NaCTSO website is a great resource. They run frequent workshops and so forth.JosiasJessop said:
Anecdotally, a friend of mine is a teacher at a private school (not a particularly famous one). A couple of years back she complained she was having to give up a Saturday to go into school to undergo training in what to do if there was an attack.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
One bit, oddly, was learning how to open the secure windows from the inside to allow them to open enough for people to get out. Something they didn't want the children knowing!
I hadn't heard of these sorts of drills, though.0 -
Teenage masturbatory fantasies really have changed.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.0 -
Same time next year for another leadership election?Scott_P said:twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1141708253862277120
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WTF? He's lengthened since I put my money on.AndyJS said:0 -
As I say this doesn't mention such drills but I accept that they could come from the guidance. I have just not heard of it doing so in Scotland. Has anyone else on the site come across this?TOPPING said:
This bit - https://scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/280693/stay-safe-firearms-and-weapons-attackDavidL said:
Not seeing anything like this kind of drill mentioned there (although I accept that it is a possible response to preparedness of your building).TOPPING said:
Indeed.DavidL said:
My kids are older now, only 1 left at school, but I've never heard of such a thing. I hesitate to say it doesn't happen in Scotland but I've never heard of it.TOPPING said:
They should have done. It is fairly recent but is being introduced around workplaces, schools, etc.DavidL said:
So is this more widespread? None of my kids have ever been asked to do such a thing, even immediately after Dunblane.TOPPING said:
Standard NaCTSO drills. I would imagine more relevant in a Jewish school.DavidL said:
Bloody hell. What sort of risk assessment was that the answer to?Anorak said:Makes me well up, think about them doing this. A Jewish primary school, Britain, 2019.
https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1141692429604708352
This is why the Jewish community is particularly aware:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9154350/Toulouse-shooting-little-girl-cornered-in-school-and-shot-in-head.html
Sadly, I can see why Jewish (and Muslim for that matter) dominated schools might think it necessary.
Quick google - https://scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/280693/
It stems from the "run, hide, tell" ("run, hide, fight" in the US) strategy. There are different drills for institutions such as schools for obvious reasons.0 -
On a happier note
Was there an end of season thread on the PB Fantasy League results?
TSE was Esther I believe...
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https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1141676646870728705FrancisUrquhart said:Same time next year for another leadership election?
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Is there a spread market on how many days BoZo will spend as PM?0
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May make it worthwhile to keep my membershipScott_P said:
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1141676646870728705FrancisUrquhart said:Same time next year for another leadership election?
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"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!0 -
What are the current odds on a GE this year? I just bet a pal a tenner that there will be (it's the only kind of betting I ever do). Who got the best odds, him or me?Scott_P said:Is there a spread market on how many days BoZo will spend as PM?
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English nationalism puzzles me. The UK is about as complex a state construct as its possible to get, a composite of two old Kingdoms, quarter of a third Kingdon plus a principality which claims to be a country equal to the other two which legally was annexed by one of them.
If we discard all of this we get to England. Who was unified after one Norse king lost to another invading Norse king who had already taken Normandy. We the had that long spell where great English heroes like Richard the Lionheart spent almost no time here and didn't speak English, where our language is a fantastic hodgepodge of everyone else's languages, and where our patron Saint has nob all to do with us and our flag was nicked from an Italian city state.
English Nationalism seems entertaining when I've heard it demand pure anglo-saxon bloodlines (err thats TWO bloodlines so not pure and both german...). My brother in laws as younger men seemed enamoured with such nonsense - I asked them whether they planned to repatriate themselves back to either Ireland or Spain as neither parent was English. At whhich point they seemed to grasp the stupidity of the whole exercise.
Mind you, the best kind of nationalism are the morons who move to somewhere like Spain, don't integrate, don't learn the language, seem hostile to the natives of the country they have moved to and yet bang on endlessly about "bloody foreigners" back home who apparently don't integrate or learn the language.0 -
I think he is like a right wing version of Jeremy Corbyn. Enjoys being a contrarian because he thinks it looks clever when, of course, it looks rather the reverse.IanB2 said:
I am struggling to see what party would want him. Maybe he could squat in the BXP so long as they don’t have any other policies?Nigel_Foremain said:
As I said before, you are definitely not a ConservativePhilip_Thompson said:
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
You really are batshit crazy.Philip_Thompson said:
Brexit is more important than the union.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.0 -
18 months! quite an optomist on Boris's longevity in the role...Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1141676646870728705FrancisUrquhart said:Same time next year for another leadership election?
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Sorry I was distracted at the end of the season.Scrapheap_as_was said:On a happier note
Was there an end of season thread on the PB Fantasy League results?
TSE was Esther I believe...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VzNx27VAXw0 -
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
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Something about confidence...GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/11417074031861145600 -
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
Nationalism is a corrupt irrational philosophy of angry retardsRochdalePioneers said:English nationalism puzzles me. The UK is about as complex a state construct as its possible to get, a composite of two old Kingdoms, quarter of a third Kingdon plus a principality which claims to be a country equal to the other two which legally was annexed by one of them.
If we discard all of this we get to England. Who was unified after one Norse king lost to another invading Norse king who had already taken Normandy. We the had that long spell where great English heroes like Richard the Lionheart spent almost no time here and didn't speak English, where our language is a fantastic hodgepodge of everyone else's languages, and where our patron Saint has nob all to do with us and our flag was nicked from an Italian city state.
English Nationalism seems entertaining when I've heard it demand pure anglo-saxon bloodlines (err thats TWO bloodlines so not pure and both german...). My brother in laws as younger men seemed enamoured with such nonsense - I asked them whether they planned to repatriate themselves back to either Ireland or Spain as neither parent was English. At whhich point they seemed to grasp the stupidity of the whole exercise.
Mind you, the best kind of nationalism are the morons who move to somewhere like Spain, don't integrate, don't learn the language, seem hostile to the natives of the country they have moved to and yet bang on endlessly about "bloody foreigners" back home who apparently don't integrate or learn the language.0 -
According to Wikipedia the shortest PM tenure wasrottenborough said:As discussed on PB:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1141692574060732416
George Canning 119 days
... so far!0 -
Everyone thought Liverpool were going to knocked out by Barcelona after losing the first leg 3 nil.Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HldRlTZj_g&t=
Jeremy Hunt = Jurgen Klopp.0 -
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
They call themselves expats, I always pull them up when I hear that and remind them they are immigrants.RochdalePioneers said:English nationalism puzzles me. The UK is about as complex a state construct as its possible to get, a composite of two old Kingdoms, quarter of a third Kingdon plus a principality which claims to be a country equal to the other two which legally was annexed by one of them.
If we discard all of this we get to England. Who was unified after one Norse king lost to another invading Norse king who had already taken Normandy. We the had that long spell where great English heroes like Richard the Lionheart spent almost no time here and didn't speak English, where our language is a fantastic hodgepodge of everyone else's languages, and where our patron Saint has nob all to do with us and our flag was nicked from an Italian city state.
English Nationalism seems entertaining when I've heard it demand pure anglo-saxon bloodlines (err thats TWO bloodlines so not pure and both german...). My brother in laws as younger men seemed enamoured with such nonsense - I asked them whether they planned to repatriate themselves back to either Ireland or Spain as neither parent was English. At whhich point they seemed to grasp the stupidity of the whole exercise.
Mind you, the best kind of nationalism are the morons who move to somewhere like Spain, don't integrate, don't learn the language, seem hostile to the natives of the country they have moved to and yet bang on endlessly about "bloody foreigners" back home who apparently don't integrate or learn the language.1 -
Isn't 'Deal or No Deal' a null clause?Chris said:
Did Theresa May ever say "We will leave the EU on 29 March, deal or no deal"?logical_song said:
No more of a lie than the same sentence with '29th March' substituted.Chris said:
He reportedly said:kinabalu said:
But he hasn't. His language about 31/10 is the same as May's was about 29/3.HYUFD said:Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
To illustrate. Assume you and I live together - not romantically, just flat share - and we need eggs to make an omelette for dinner.
You: We need eggs.
Me: Yes, I know. I'm going to the shops now.
You: Great. And you'll get some eggs?
Me: It is very important that I get eggs. If I don't we won't be having an omelette.
You: Right. So you will be getting some then, will you?
Me: I am passionately committed to us having an omelette tonight.
You: Which requires eggs. You gonna make sure to get some?
Me: Nobody wants an egg free shopping expedition, least of all me.
You: Look - ARE YOU GETTING US SOME FUCKING EGGS OR NOT ??
Me: No comment. Let's talk about something else.
"We will leave the EU on 31 October, deal or no deal."
It may be a lie, but is it really ambiguous?
What would the Venn diagram look like?0 -
That, though, is the beauty of football. Football as an analogy for the Tory Party is not one of your better proposals TSE, if I may say so.TheScreamingEagles said:
Everyone thought Liverpool were going to knocked out by Barcelona after losing the first leg 3 nil.Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HldRlTZj_g&t=
Jeremy Hunt = Jurgen Klopp.
Edit: I suppose BoJo could always be crushed under a falling black swan, but that's the equivalent of the match being abandoned with 10 mins to go due to a swarm of locusts devouring the pitch.0 -
Boris has no 12 month immunity period from letters to the 1922 committee remember0
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Liverpool win absolute ecstasy for me.Benpointer said:
That, though, is the beauty of football. Football as an analogy for the Tory Party is not one of your better proposals TSE, if I may say so.TheScreamingEagles said:
Everyone thought Liverpool were going to knocked out by Barcelona after losing the first leg 3 nil.Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HldRlTZj_g&t=
Jeremy Hunt = Jurgen Klopp.
Jeremy Hunt wins absolute ecstasy for me as it would be my biggest ever winner.
Not sure if I've ever mentioned it but I did tip him at 100/1 and 66/1.0 -
Jeremy Punt.TheScreamingEagles said:
Liverpool win absolute ecstasy for me.Benpointer said:
That, though, is the beauty of football. Football as an analogy for the Tory Party is not one of your better proposals TSE, if I may say so.TheScreamingEagles said:
Everyone thought Liverpool were going to knocked out by Barcelona after losing the first leg 3 nil.Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HldRlTZj_g&t=
Jeremy Hunt = Jurgen Klopp.
Jeremy Hunt wins absolute ecstasy for me as it would be my biggest ever winner.
Not sure if I've ever mentioned it but I did tip him at 100/1 and 66/1.0 -
Electoral Calculus sets out at least 'seven political tribes'. Finland has PR and reportedly has >>20 parties in parliament.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think he is like a right wing version of Jeremy Corbyn. Enjoys being a contrarian because he thinks it looks clever when, of course, it looks rather the reverse.IanB2 said:
I am struggling to see what party would want him. Maybe he could squat in the BXP so long as they don’t have any other policies?Nigel_Foremain said:
As I said before, you are definitely not a ConservativePhilip_Thompson said:
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
[del.]Philip_Thompson said:
[del.]TOPPING said:[del.]
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.
FPTP doesn't cater at all well for this variety. That's why we're now arguing about what each party stands for when most of them are multiple parties under the same name.1 -
He was also apparently wrong in this debate with Peter Hitchens. Hitchens is on a mission on this one, and it seems the tide is turning his wayviewcode said:
If you read The Bad Boys Of Brexit there is a bit where Neil arranges for Banks to meet a group of people who might give him funds. There is no "if" about it.TOPPING said:
He is by all accounts a Brexiter.FF43 said:
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.TOPPING said:
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.AlastairMeeks said:
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.TOPPING said:Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
Neil has problems. There have been two occasions in the past two years where he has adopted positions that were risible (only UK can make Airbus wings, and the German federal election inconclusive result was the worst constitutional vcrisis since ww2). In both cases he was backed up by sources, but the positions did not withstand inspection. He's smart, but I think he's Wikipedia Metropolitan Elite smart: he repeats positions backed by logic and sources but never stops to check for plausibility or to say "hold on, this is bollocks".
https://youtu.be/6TvNt-fhsew
0 -
Scrapheap_as_was said:
On a happier note
Was there an end of season thread on the PB Fantasy League results?
TSE was Esther I believe...
What was the winning points total?0 -
Especially as it will save them, what is it, £150k? And surely BoJo will give either Hunt or Gove the CoE to save himself the other £150k.GIN1138 said:
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
Pocket change for Jeremy Hunt, he's loaded.Benpointer said:
Especially as it will save them, what is it, £150k?GIN1138 said:
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
Canning was an Eton and Oxford-educated classicist. Remind you of anyone?logical_song said:
According to Wikipedia the shortest PM tenure wasrottenborough said:As discussed on PB:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1141692574060732416
George Canning 119 days
... so far!0 -
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.rural_voter said:
Electoral Calculus sets out at least 'seven political tribes'. Finland has PR and reportedly has >>20 parties in parliament.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think he is like a right wing version of Jeremy Corbyn. Enjoys being a contrarian because he thinks it looks clever when, of course, it looks rather the reverse.IanB2 said:
I am struggling to see what party would want him. Maybe he could squat in the BXP so long as they don’t have any other policies?Nigel_Foremain said:
As I said before, you are definitely not a ConservativePhilip_Thompson said:
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
[del.]Philip_Thompson said:
[del.]TOPPING said:[del.]
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.
FPTP doesn't cater at all well for this variety. That's why we're now arguing about what each party stands for when most of them are multiple parties under the same name.0 -
Ah yes - that conference in Switzerland.Chris said:I don't know. I think his antics - and the antics of most of the other leadership contenders - defy rational analysis.
This was my source for that phrase, by the way:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/104142/boris-johnson-says-brexit
Well if he repeats it as clearly - "we are leaving on 31 Oct with or without a deal" - in a high profile TV setting here or in the UK parliament, I will immediately lump on a 2019 general election.
But until he does ...0 -
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!0 -
Ah yes - good point. But still, he must covet that CoE position.TheScreamingEagles said:
Pocket change for Jeremy Hunt, he's loaded.Benpointer said:
Especially as it will save them, what is it, £150k?GIN1138 said:
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
I reckon BJ has already promised COTE more than onceGIN1138 said:
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
I understand that the final ballot has been slightly extended so we may not get the result before 630.0
-
What are promises if not for breaking?IanB2 said:
I reckon BJ has already promised COTE more than onceGIN1138 said:
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
HM prefers One'sAppHarris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
1 -
Tory leave MPs should tactically vote for Gove to get two Leave MPs in the run off.0
-
and he was shot....!!logical_song said:
According to Wikipedia the shortest PM tenure wasrottenborough said:As discussed on PB:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1141692574060732416
George Canning 119 days
... so far!
Edit: ooops not him,..but he did die!0 -
Well there, my friend, we are for once in total agreement!Philip_Thompson said:
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
I respect your views, even though I heartily disagree with nearly all of them, so it's nice to fined something we do agree on 0 -
Perhaps immigrants should call themselves ex-pats. "Bloody ex-pats coming over here and stealing our jobs and council houses".nichomar said:
They call themselves expats, I always pull them up when I hear that and remind them they are immigrants.RochdalePioneers said:English nationalism puzzles me. The UK is about as complex a state construct as its possible to get, a composite of two old Kingdoms, quarter of a third Kingdon plus a principality which claims to be a country equal to the other two which legally was annexed by one of them.
If we discard all of this we get to England. Who was unified after one Norse king lost to another invading Norse king who had already taken Normandy. We the had that long spell where great English heroes like Richard the Lionheart spent almost no time here and didn't speak English, where our language is a fantastic hodgepodge of everyone else's languages, and where our patron Saint has nob all to do with us and our flag was nicked from an Italian city state.
English Nationalism seems entertaining when I've heard it demand pure anglo-saxon bloodlines (err thats TWO bloodlines so not pure and both german...). My brother in laws as younger men seemed enamoured with such nonsense - I asked them whether they planned to repatriate themselves back to either Ireland or Spain as neither parent was English. At whhich point they seemed to grasp the stupidity of the whole exercise.
Mind you, the best kind of nationalism are the morons who move to somewhere like Spain, don't integrate, don't learn the language, seem hostile to the natives of the country they have moved to and yet bang on endlessly about "bloody foreigners" back home who apparently don't integrate or learn the language.1 -
Scrapheap with 2198.isam said:Scrapheap_as_was said:On a happier note
Was there an end of season thread on the PB Fantasy League results?
TSE was Esther I believe...
What was the winning points total?0 -
Perhaps you are the one who is marching out of step?Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.rural_voter said:
Electoral Calculus sets out at least 'seven political tribes'. Finland has PR and reportedly has >>20 parties in parliament.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think he is like a right wing version of Jeremy Corbyn. Enjoys being a contrarian because he thinks it looks clever when, of course, it looks rather the reverse.IanB2 said:
I am struggling to see what party would want him. Maybe he could squat in the BXP so long as they don’t have any other policies?Nigel_Foremain said:
As I said before, you are definitely not a ConservativePhilip_Thompson said:
In an ideal world I would want English independence using England as defined today. I would like to see Wales and Scotland as friendly neighbours.RochdalePioneers said:
You want Brexit so which country can be sovereign - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? But you disavow the Union - so you don't care about the sovereignty of your country as you want to dismantle your country.Philip_Thompson said:
I want my country to be sovereign. I am English.RochdalePioneers said:
[del.]Philip_Thompson said:
[del.]TOPPING said:[del.]
I want Brexit so that my country can be sovereign.
I want English (or Scottish) independence so my country can be sovereign.
Fully consistent.
What specifically do you want to have sovereignty for? "England" has been an ever-evolving place as you know. When you seek nationhood for England do you include or exclude Wales? If its exclude then we're talking about pre-1535 England. In which case I assume you lay claim to Calais? Or perhaps gp further back and demand fealty of other parts of modern day France.
Tell you what. If you represent English Nationalism, I'll start a campaign to resurrect the Danelaw and the Kingdom of Strathclyde
But if the Welsh and Scots don't want independence I don't mind them tagging along with us that much.
FPTP doesn't cater at all well for this variety. That's why we're now arguing about what each party stands for when most of them are multiple parties under the same name.0 -
John Prescott told the House that the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori, who has just ridden the first three winners at Royal Ascot today. It is 23 years since Frankie went through the card with his Magnificent Seven.0
-
I feel old now....DecrepitJohnL said:John Prescott told the House that the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori, who has just ridden the first three winners at Royal Ascot today. It is 23 years since Frankie went through the card with his Magnificent Seven.
0 -
Most of them died. Eton, Oxford and death. The golden thread that runs through Downing Street.Slackbladder said:
and he was shot....!!logical_song said:
According to Wikipedia the shortest PM tenure wasrottenborough said:As discussed on PB:
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1141692574060732416
George Canning 119 days
... so far!
Edit: ooops not him,..but he did die!0 -
Interesting. Why?Philip_Thompson said:
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!0 -
If you add together all the other posters points a la the Euros & BXP I guess I’d have lost!Foxy said:isam said:Scrapheap_as_was said:On a happier note
Was there an end of season thread on the PB Fantasy League results?
TSE was Esther I believe...
What was the winning points total?
Scrapheap with 2198.
0 -
Chris Grayling is surely nailed on ;-)IanB2 said:
I reckon BJ has already promised COTE more than onceGIN1138 said:
If Boris is willing to let them name their cabinet position (presumably either COTE or DPM) there's got to be an above average chance that they'll withdraw given how pro-Boris the membership is....Benpointer said:
Indeed.GIN1138 said:
Well if Boris's opponent withdraws later this evening they can get this done as early as tomorrow afternoon.Harris_Tweed said:FFS.. can't they do it by text? Or at least Skype?
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1141707403186114560
And tbh what is the point of them continuing, since they must surely lose?0 -
A bit harsh on Daniel Vettori, who was pretty decent for New Zealand cricket.DecrepitJohnL said:John Prescott told the House that the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori, who has just ridden the first three winners at Royal Ascot today. It is 23 years since Frankie went through the card with his Magnificent Seven.
1 -
Why? More importantly, has the deadline for candidates to withdraw been extended?NickPalmer said:I understand that the final ballot has been slightly extended so we may not get the result before 630.
0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
The MPs are cretins for voluntarily being Boris' glove puppets.0 -
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.1 -
Sean F: Perhaps you are the one who is marching out of step?
Of course I am. Someone took over the band and changed the music to something that was far better for the goosestep. I don't do that kind of marching.0 -
"Voting queue 'is longest so far'
The BBC's chief political correspondent Vicki Young reports that this round's ballot papers are pink.
It's also the longest queue to vote seen so far, she says.
And when it comes to the two spoilt ballot papers from the previous round, most people think it wasn't the prime minister, our correspondent adds."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-486909730 -
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?2
-
Don't know, and it's just a source in the Hunt campaign - not sure what he's basing it on.DecrepitJohnL said:
Why? More importantly, has the deadline for candidates to withdraw been extended?NickPalmer said:I understand that the final ballot has been slightly extended so we may not get the result before 630.
0 -
Has the 1922's printer run out of paper? 313 MPs voted in each round so far; the franchise has not been expanded, so what has gone wrong?AndyJS said:"Voting queue 'is longest so far'
The BBC's chief political correspondent Vicki Young reports that this round's ballot papers are pink.
It's also the longest queue to vote seen so far, she says.
And when it comes to the two spoilt ballot papers from the previous round, most people think it wasn't the prime minister, our correspondent adds."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-486909730 -
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.0 -
The problem is that because BXP is a company with subscribers, it isn’t incompatible with Conservative Party membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.0 -
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.Nigel_Foremain said:
Interesting. Why?Philip_Thompson said:
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them 2 -
Ok, am told the delay to this vote is that some MPs are making/changing plans if there is a tie.
If there is a tie another round will be held at 19:30.
Not all proxies will be around at 19:300 -
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty wordViceroy_of_Orange said:Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
3 -
There'll be another round between 7:30pm and 9:30pm if this one results in a tie for second place.
Edit: TSE has already posted this.0 -
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.Sean_F said:
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.1 -
True but that simply means many existing and long term Tory members have been able to support BXP without leaving the Tory party. That may be something that Nigel and others are rightly unhappy about but it doesnt make those people entryists.IanB2 said:
The problem is that because BXP is a company with subscribers, it isn’t incompatible with Conservative Party membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.0 -
Farage is a nasty xenophobe?Philip_Thompson said:
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.Nigel_Foremain said:
Interesting. Why?Philip_Thompson said:
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them0 -
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?TheScreamingEagles said:
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.Sean_F said:
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party. 0 -
Identical to my view as well. PM Farage is not something I would welcome.Philip_Thompson said:
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.Nigel_Foremain said:
Interesting. Why?Philip_Thompson said:
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them0 -
Please don't get the idea I'm suggesting you should believe it, just because he's said it!kinabalu said:
Ah yes - that conference in Switzerland.Chris said:I don't know. I think his antics - and the antics of most of the other leadership contenders - defy rational analysis.
This was my source for that phrase, by the way:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/104142/boris-johnson-says-brexit
Well if he repeats it as clearly - "we are leaving on 31 Oct with or without a deal" - in a high profile TV setting here or in the UK parliament, I will immediately lump on a 2019 general election.
But until he does ...
All I was pointing out was that he had said it ...0 -
That could lead to an epic result...IanB2 said:
Yes, all Tory leave MPs should vote tactically for Gove and all Tory remain MPs should vote tactically for Hunt. Don’t leave it to someone else - they may be leaving it to you!Artist said:Tory leave MPs should tactically vote for Gove to get two Leave MPs in the run off.
Hunt 122
Gove 97
Johnson 940 -
Yes. Like May and Powell.isam said:
Farage is a nasty xenophobe?Philip_Thompson said:
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.Nigel_Foremain said:
Interesting. Why?Philip_Thompson said:
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.Benpointer said:
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!Philip_Thompson said:
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.SandyRentool said:I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them0 -
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.IanB2 said:
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?TheScreamingEagles said:
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.Sean_F said:
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.0 -
One third of Conservative Party members joined within the past year.Richard_Tyndall said:
True but that simply means many existing and long term Tory members have been able to support BXP without leaving the Tory party. That may be something that Nigel and others are rightly unhappy about but it doesnt make those people entryists.IanB2 said:
The problem is that because BXP is a company with subscribers, it isn’t incompatible with Conservative Party membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.0 -
If only unionists should be in the party then should only social conservatives be in the party too? Because of the name. Should those of us who are liberal leave the party because it doesn't fit the name?TheScreamingEagles said:
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.Sean_F said:
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.0 -
No, they ought to be exitists. That’s my point - people would think twice if joining BXP meant signing up to another political party and, according to the rules, leaving their current one. Farage has cleverly made it easy to be in both.Richard_Tyndall said:
True but that simply means many existing and long term Tory members have been able to support BXP without leaving the Tory party. That may be something that Nigel and others are rightly unhappy about but it doesnt make those people entryists.IanB2 said:
The problem is that because BXP is a company with subscribers, it isn’t incompatible with Conservative Party membership.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.0 -
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.IanB2 said:
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?TheScreamingEagles said:
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.Sean_F said:
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.Richard_Tyndall said:
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.Nigel_Foremain said:
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.0
