I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.
Interesting. Why?
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them
Farage is a nasty xenophobe?
Yes. Like May and Powell.
Sorry I thought you had written ‘homophobe’, my mistake, although I don’t agree that any of the three people you mention are xenophobic
I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.
Interesting. Why?
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them
Farage is a nasty xenophobe?
Yes. Like May and Powell.
Sorry I thought you had written ‘homophobe’, my mistake, although I don’t agree that any of the three people you mention are xenophobic
May's 2015 Conference speech was the nastiest and most xenophobic speeches I have had the displeasure to sit through as a member at Conference.
That she was elected leader within 12 months of that nasty speech made me feel ashamed o what the party had become. Such a descent from Cameron.
I am puzzled why the same PBers who thought it was a jolly jape that £3 entryists got a vote in the Labour leadership election are now indignant that various far-right entryists will get a vote in the Conservative leadership election.
Not that it matters when your long-standing membership is full of swivel-eyed loons who will genuflect at the altar of Bozo anyway.
I regret that as a former long-term member my great distaste for authoritarian May means I won't get a vote now.
Ironically I joined pre-Cameron as I was that disgusted that the members had gone for IDS over Ken Clarke that I joined to get a vote next time. Was happy then to vote for Cameron over DD.
"authoritarian May" Guffaw!
Wait till we end up with PM Farage, then you will see what authoritarian looks like!
I would hate to have Farage as PM. I despise the man.
Interesting. Why?
He is another nasty xenophobe like Theresa May.
My philosophy is liberal Conservatism. Small state economically and socially. Like Cameron and Thatcher and Churchill or Peel.
I just want a slightly smaller state than most of them
Identical to my view as well. PM Farage is not something I would welcome.
Sadly HY has a poll that proves conclusively that he’ll be PM by Xmas. Or something like that.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
If only unionists should be in the party then should only social conservatives be in the party too? Because of the name. Should those of us who are liberal leave the party because it doesn't fit the name?
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
If only unionists should be in the party then should only social conservatives be in the party too? Because of the name. Should those of us who are liberal leave the party because it doesn't fit the name?
err, yes.
Considering you don't like the Party I'll take that with a pinch of salt. I'd like to know if TSE thinks social liberals have no place in the Party.
English nationalism puzzles me. The UK is about as complex a state construct as its possible to get, a composite of two old Kingdoms, quarter of a third Kingdon plus a principality which claims to be a country equal to the other two which legally was annexed by one of them.
If we discard all of this we get to England. Who was unified after one Norse king lost to another invading Norse king who had already taken Normandy. We the had that long spell where great English heroes like Richard the Lionheart spent almost no time here and didn't speak English, where our language is a fantastic hodgepodge of everyone else's languages, and where our patron Saint has nob all to do with us and our flag was nicked from an Italian city state.
English Nationalism seems entertaining when I've heard it demand pure anglo-saxon bloodlines (err thats TWO bloodlines so not pure and both german...). My brother in laws as younger men seemed enamoured with such nonsense - I asked them whether they planned to repatriate themselves back to either Ireland or Spain as neither parent was English. At whhich point they seemed to grasp the stupidity of the whole exercise.
Mind you, the best kind of nationalism are the morons who move to somewhere like Spain, don't integrate, don't learn the language, seem hostile to the natives of the country they have moved to and yet bang on endlessly about "bloody foreigners" back home who apparently don't integrate or learn the language.
Nationalism is a corrupt irrational philosophy of angry retards
Trouble is, almost everyone is a nationalist. You probably are. Thought experiment for you: if you were offered the chance for the UK to be absorbed into, say, the USA, or India... would you turn down that offer? If so, you're a nationalist. If not, I take it back, you probably aren't a nationalist.
Leo Varadkar, Ireland’s prime minister, warned there was “enormous hostility” among EU leaders to any further Brexit extension as he arrived at a Brussels summit today.
While he said he has “endless patience” with Britain, Mr Varadkar said his fellow leaders in the EU-27 had lost patience ahead of the October 31 Brexit deadline.
I think that Gove is going to do it (so that's him doomed). He seems much more likely to pick up Sajid's supporters than Hunt to me which should be enough to offset any Boris organised hit squad.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
The problem is that because BXP is a company with subscribers, it isn’t incompatible with Conservative Party membership.
True but that simply means many existing and long term Tory members have been able to support BXP without leaving the Tory party. That may be something that Nigel and others are rightly unhappy about but it doesnt make those people entryists.
One third of Conservative Party members joined within the past year.
And yet it is still not back up to the level it was at when Cameron was elected in 2010.
Boris at an Eton class reunion: We have the self-confidence as a year group to delegate the premiership to a boy from two years below us for the time being.
Quoted in The Enigma of Kidson: The Portrait of an Eton Schoolmaster.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
He is by all accounts a Brexiter.
If you read The Bad Boys Of Brexit there is a bit where Neil arranges for Banks to meet a group of people who might give him funds. There is no "if" about it.
Neil has problems. There have been two occasions in the past two years where he has adopted positions that were risible (only UK can make Airbus wings, and the German federal election inconclusive result was the worst constitutional vcrisis since ww2). In both cases he was backed up by sources, but the positions did not withstand inspection. He's smart, but I think he's Wikipedia Metropolitan Elite smart: he repeats positions backed by logic and sources but never stops to check for plausibility or to say "hold on, this is bollocks".
I think there have been more than two occasions, but in any case the main problem is that nary an apology or even admission that there may have been a different interpretation appears. Neil also incontinently rts other people's tweets that praise him which suggests an odd mixture of insecurity and self regard.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
John Prescott told the House that the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori, who has just ridden the first three winners at Royal Ascot today. It is 23 years since Frankie went through the card with his Magnificent Seven.
I feel old now....
Four out of four for Frankie as he wins the Ascot Gold Cup on Stradivarius.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
I hope so.
Similarly I hope that Boris doesn't end up without Gove on his side, in the same way May and Osborne couldn't work together.
Working together Boris, Osborne and Gove could be a good team. Having them outside the tent pissing in will not be good.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
He is by all accounts a Brexiter.
If you read The Bad Boys Of Brexit there is a bit where Neil arranges for Banks to meet a group of people who might give him funds. There is no "if" about it.
Neil has problems. There have been two occasions in the past two years where he has adopted positions that were risible (only UK can make Airbus wings, and the German federal election inconclusive result was the worst constitutional vcrisis since ww2). In both cases he was backed up by sources, but the positions did not withstand inspection. He's smart, but I think he's Wikipedia Metropolitan Elite smart: he repeats positions backed by logic and sources but never stops to check for plausibility or to say "hold on, this is bollocks".
I think there have been more than two occasions, but in any case the main problem is that nary an apology or even admission that there may have been a different interpretation appears. Neil also incontinently rts other people's tweets that praise him which suggests an odd mixture of insecurity and self regard.
Exactly right. His preening is only interrupted to sneer at people. He's a very effective puncher, but he has no finesse, no majesty. You can see this when he gets challenged on something he's said or done. He punches down, gets filled with indignant rage, sulks and pouts. He's a bruiser, a bully, an egotist. No wonder people think highly of him: thems the times.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
I hope so.
Similarly I hope that Boris doesn't end up without Gove on his side, in the same way May and Osborne couldn't work together.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
I hope so.
Similarly I hope that Boris doesn't end up without Gove on his side, in the same way May and Osborne couldn't work together.
Working together Boris, Osborne and Gove could be a good team. Having them outside the tent pissing in will not be good.
There is a pitiful lack of talent in politics at the moment. If Boris is to have a government that works (unlike May) then he needs to make use of all that is available and get rid of at least some of the dead wood. Of course, as with every leader, he will need to balance the different sections of the party in the name of unity but there were so many boring no marks around May that need to be retired PDQ.
I am concerned that he might reward a well known arachnophile with Chancellor for running such an effective campaign. I fear that would be a mistake.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
I was the one who mentioned trolling to VoO.
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
More a contradiction in your childish caricatures of other people's political thought.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
I was the one who mentioned trolling to VoO.
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
I hadn’t read the whole thread. You always accuse me of lying but I don’t and I’m not here either.
Obsessed, obshmessed. Just a passive aggressive insult
Tory leave MPs should tactically vote for Gove to get two Leave MPs in the run off.
Yes, all Tory leave MPs should vote tactically for Gove and all Tory remain MPs should vote tactically for Hunt. Don’t leave it to someone else - they may be leaving it to you!
Never going to happen but it would be hilarious if it were Boris eliminated in the final ballot.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
More a contradiction in your childish caricatures of other people's political thought.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Indeed the very bread and butter is different opinions being thrashed out and countered in a civilised matter.
And to take as an example of that diversity, muslim Britons have some opinions I disapprove of such as institutional misogyny and homophobia, but also opinions on international community, charity, family values and temperance that are in advance of most WASP Britons. Obviously there is a diversity of opinion within the Muslim community too that matches the spectrum of Christian thought on these issues as wide as the difference between myself and Anne Widdecombe.
Tory leave MPs should tactically vote for Gove to get two Leave MPs in the run off.
Yes, all Tory leave MPs should vote tactically for Gove and all Tory remain MPs should vote tactically for Hunt. Don’t leave it to someone else - they may be leaving it to you!
Tory leave MPs should tactically vote for Gove to get two Leave MPs in the run off.
Yes, all Tory leave MPs should vote tactically for Gove and all Tory remain MPs should vote tactically for Hunt. Don’t leave it to someone else - they may be leaving it to you!
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
People on the right often seem to confuse people disagreeing with them with censorship. I am a big believer in free speech but not if it encourages and embolden people to commit acts of violence. So for instance, my opposition to Johnson's "pillar box" comment stems less from the words themselves than from the knowledge that it led to a spike in attacks on Muslim women. And that Johnson would have known this, and chose to say it anyway, tells you everything you need to know about him.
O/t since we are hanging around another interesting election going on is the appointment of a new Head of the Commission. The runners and riders are shown here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48706193
Macron is pushing Barnier. I don't think that that would be good for us, especially if Boris is seeking to find some flexibility that would allow him to sell the WA mark 2.
Of course when I say election this will be a stitch up in the true EU tradition. Will the rest of the EU be willing to give such a role to a German when there are already so many concerns about their excessive dominance? I suspect not.
O/t since we are hanging around another interesting election going on is the appointment of a new Head of the Commission. The runners and riders are shown here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48706193
Macron is pushing Barnier. I don't think that that would be good for us, especially if Boris is seeking to find some flexibility that would allow him to sell the WA mark 2.
Of course when I say election this will be a stitch up in the true EU tradition. Will the rest of the EU be willing to give such a role to a German when there are already so many concerns about their excessive dominance? I suspect not.
Interesting that they've totally ditched the spitzenkandidat process which was an attempt to make it slightly more democratic .
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
I was the one who mentioned trolling to VoO.
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
I hadn’t read the whole thread. You always accuse me of lying but I don’t and I’m not here either.
Obsessed, obshmessed. Just a passive aggressive insult
O/t since we are hanging around another interesting election going on is the appointment of a new Head of the Commission. The runners and riders are shown here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48706193
Macron is pushing Barnier. I don't think that that would be good for us, especially if Boris is seeking to find some flexibility that would allow him to sell the WA mark 2.
Of course when I say election this will be a stitch up in the true EU tradition. Will the rest of the EU be willing to give such a role to a German when there are already so many concerns about their excessive dominance? I suspect not.
Interesting that they've totally ditched the spitzenkandidat process which was an attempt to make it slightly more democratic .
I don't think that the Germans have because it supports their man but it does seem that there is resistance to this from the others. I wouldn't be surprised if they selected a non German from the EPP.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
Boris is going to need all the support he can get if the ABB contingent on this site is anything to go by.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
I was the one who mentioned trolling to VoO.
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
I hadn’t read the whole thread. You always accuse me of lying but I don’t and I’m not here either.
Obsessed, obshmessed. Just a passive aggressive insult
"You always accuse me of lying"
LOL. No.
"Just a passive aggressive insult"
Why?
LOL yes I’m afraid. Nauseating.
Saying ‘obsessed’ is just a way of trying to embarrass the person disagreeing with you from continuing. I don’t care anyway I’m all for diversity of opinions
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
Boris is going to need all the support he can get if the ABB contingent on this site is anything to go by.
I don't think so. Very few of us even have a vote and among those that do he seems to be doing ok.
O/t since we are hanging around another interesting election going on is the appointment of a new Head of the Commission. The runners and riders are shown here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48706193
Macron is pushing Barnier. I don't think that that would be good for us, especially if Boris is seeking to find some flexibility that would allow him to sell the WA mark 2.
Of course when I say election this will be a stitch up in the true EU tradition. Will the rest of the EU be willing to give such a role to a German when there are already so many concerns about their excessive dominance? I suspect not.
Interesting that they've totally ditched the spitzenkandidat process which was an attempt to make it slightly more democratic .
Merkel is being suggested as Council President. That would block a German as Commission President.
My understanding is that the key roles need to be geographically, politically, big/small country distributed.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
People on the right often seem to confuse people disagreeing with them with censorship. I am a big believer in free speech but not if it encourages and embolden people to commit acts of violence. So for instance, my opposition to Johnson's "pillar box" comment stems less from the words themselves than from the knowledge that it led to a spike in attacks on Muslim women. And that Johnson would have known this, and chose to say it anyway, tells you everything you need to know about him.
And how do you feel about anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
I was the one who mentioned trolling to VoO.
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
I hadn’t read the whole thread. You always accuse me of lying but I don’t and I’m not here either.
Obsessed, obshmessed. Just a passive aggressive insult
"You always accuse me of lying"
LOL. No.
"Just a passive aggressive insult"
Why?
LOL yes I’m afraid. Nauseating.
Saying ‘obsessed’ is just a way of trying to embarrass the person disagreeing with you from continuing. I don’t care anyway I’m all for diversity of opinions
If you want passive-aggressive, just read your last few posts.
40 minutes to go in the final ballot, and it’s one helluva finale. Senior Gove team source says they’re confident they have half of Sajid’s backers, with most others going to Boris: “Hunt only beats us now if Boris lends him votes, and that’s a really bad look”.
John Prescott told the House that the only good Tory is Frankie Dettori, who has just ridden the first three winners at Royal Ascot today. It is 23 years since Frankie went through the card with his Magnificent Seven.
I feel old now....
Four out of four for Frankie as he wins the Ascot Gold Cup on Stradivarius.
Frankie could only finish second in the Britannia just now.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
I was the one who mentioned trolling to VoO.
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
I hadn’t read the whole thread. You always accuse me of lying but I don’t and I’m not here either.
Obsessed, obshmessed. Just a passive aggressive insult
"You always accuse me of lying"
LOL. No.
"Just a passive aggressive insult"
Why?
LOL yes I’m afraid. Nauseating.
Saying ‘obsessed’ is just a way of trying to embarrass the person disagreeing with you from continuing. I don’t care anyway I’m all for diversity of opinions
If you want passive-aggressive, just read your last few posts.
Describing you as “Nauseating” seems pretty direct, but see it as you wish.
The main point is that I wasn’t referring to you anyway, so you were mistaken to infer that I was. Let’s leave it at that 👍🏻
O/t since we are hanging around another interesting election going on is the appointment of a new Head of the Commission. The runners and riders are shown here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48706193
Macron is pushing Barnier. I don't think that that would be good for us, especially if Boris is seeking to find some flexibility that would allow him to sell the WA mark 2.
Of course when I say election this will be a stitch up in the true EU tradition. Will the rest of the EU be willing to give such a role to a German when there are already so many concerns about their excessive dominance? I suspect not.
Interesting that they've totally ditched the spitzenkandidat process which was an attempt to make it slightly more democratic .
Merkel is being suggested as Council President. That would block a German as Commission President.
My understanding is that the key roles need to be geographically, politically, big/small country distributed.
Not seen that one. I wonder if she has genuine health problems? That shaking the other day was remarkable.
I can see her doing a deal with Boris off her own bat in such a role, just as she did with Turkey on immigration. If I was next in line in Germany I am not sure how I would feel about such a potentially loose cannon holding such a position.
Bizzare on here how people resort to calling others trolls when they come across a viewpoint they do not like. Maybe we just have different opinions?
As I said earlier, those who carry on about diversity don’t seem to want a diverse cross section of opinions, rather a diverse cross section of skin colour, religious affiliation and political party support with the same opinion. The forefathers of multiculturalism admit that’s what they thought would happen and didn’t consider that Asian immigrants weren’t desperate to become secular Europeans... why should they? The whole thing is predicated on colonial arrogance by people who think colonialism is a dirty word
Since that's probably partly directed at me (if I've read the thread correctly), I'm all in favour of a diverse cross-section of opinions - it's why I come on here for debate that is generally more intelligent that you get in many other corners of t'Internet.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Wasn’t directed at you at all or anyone on here in particular, just my take on what seems to be a contradiction in a strand of political thought
People on the right often seem to confuse people disagreeing with them with censorship. I am a big believer in free speech but not if it encourages and embolden people to commit acts of violence. So for instance, my opposition to Johnson's "pillar box" comment stems less from the words themselves than from the knowledge that it led to a spike in attacks on Muslim women. And that Johnson would have known this, and chose to say it anyway, tells you everything you need to know about him.
And how do you feel about anti-Semitism in the Labour party?
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
IDS was not the worst Tory leader, Hague generally polled worse than IDS and got the second lowest number of Tory MPs since WW2 in 2001 after Major without winning an election as Major did.
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
Though Balfour did even worse than Hague in 2001 and Major in 1997, winning just 156 MPs in 1906 (though he recovered to 272 MPs in February 2010).
40 minutes to go in the final ballot, and it’s one helluva finale. Senior Gove team source says they’re confident they have half of Sajid’s backers, with most others going to Boris: “Hunt only beats us now if Boris lends him votes, and that’s a really bad look”.
Put a fiver on Gove, the tweet about getting half of Javids support looks like a straw in the wind and require an army of tactical anti Hunt voting by camp Boris to stop. Can it be done ? Sure, but not likely I think.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
IDS was not the worst Tory leader
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
IDS hadn’t so many qualities and wasn’t a brilliant orator and leadership was not one of them either.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
IDS was not the worst Tory leader, Hague generally polled worse than IDS and got the second lowest number of Tory MPs since WW2 in 2001 after Major without winning an election as Major did.
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
Though Balfour did even worse than Hague in 2001 and Major in 1997, winning just 156 MPs in 1906
We will never know how badly IDS would have done. The party very wisely did not take that risk. Hague took one for the team when Blair was totally dominant and untouchable. I would have him as leader over IDS in a heart beat.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
The Tories may be about to put the first Scot in the final 2 of their leadership contests since Home in 1963
Does anyone know who Ruth Davidson is backing now that her man Javid is out?
Presumably Hunt, as the other two go down like cold sick north of the border.
(Incidentally, to my knowledge, not a single SCon MP voted Javid. She has lost her authority.)
No, Davidson endorsed Gove this afternoon (Hunt polled worse for the Tories in Scotland in the recent Comres, Boris polled best cutting back the Brexit Party in Scotland as he does in England and Wales and taking the Tories back to 28% just 2 percent behind the SNP on 30%)
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believal on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris lls.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
IDS was not the worst Tory leader
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
IDS hadn’t so many qualities and wasn’t a brilliant orator and leadership was not one of them either.
Balfour sets the bar for Boris.
The Tories led more polls under IDS and had a higher average poll rating than under Hague, this was not a question about who was the best orator but who was the best Tory leader and IDS was better than Hague
40 minutes to go in the final ballot, and it’s one helluva finale. Senior Gove team source says they’re confident they have half of Sajid’s backers, with most others going to Boris: “Hunt only beats us now if Boris lends him votes, and that’s a really bad look”.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
I.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
IDS was not the worst Tory leader, Hague generally polled worse than IDS and got the second lowest number of Tory MPs since WW2 in 2001 after Major without winning an election as Major did.
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
Though Balfour did even worse than Hague in 2001 and Major in 1997, winning just 156 MPs in 1906 (though he recovered to 272 MPs in February 2010).
That's a slightly unfair comparison. It was William Hague's poisoned chalice to be appointed in the immediate aftermath of Tony Blair's New Labour landslide. The tories had suffered their worst election result of the C20th.
It was a heady time in this country, one of liberation from the long Conservative social shackles. I don't think anyone would have done better. Not Margaret Thatcher. Not even Winston Churchill. And certainly not IDS. It was New Labour's zenith.
Stephen Ward was found guilty of living off immoral earnings (money obtained from Rice-Davies and Keeler among others) – the trial having been instigated after the embarrassment caused to the government.
While giving evidence at Ward's trial, Rice-Davies made a famous riposte. When James Burge, the defence counsel, pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her, she dismissed the denial by stating, "Well (giggle) he would, wouldn’t he?"[9] (often misquoted "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?").[10] By 1979, this phrase had entered the third edition of the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, and is occasionally abbreviated as MRDA ("Mandy Rice-Davies applies").
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris lls.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
IDS was not the worst Tory leader
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
IDS hadn’t so many qualities and wasn’t a brilliant orator and leadership was not one of them either.
Balfour sets the bar for Boris.
The Tories led more polls under IDS and had a higher average poll rating than under Hague, this was not a question about who was the best orator but who was the best Tory leader and IDS was better than Hague
When IDS was leader Blair was lying through his teeth to get us to join an illegal war with no thought about what might happen next. IDS was of course cheering him on but to say that IDS's polling was directly comparable to Hague's period in charge is just silly. The man is just an idiot and should never have been anywhere near the leadership.
Put a fiver on Gove, the tweet about getting half of Javids support looks like a straw in the wind and require an army of tactical anti Hunt voting by camp Boris to stop. Can it be done ? Sure, but not likely I think.
I’ve stuck £15 extra on.
Sure I might lose it but my level of profit on Boris is quite boring and £15 either way won’t make me ecstatic or not either which way.
But Boris v. Gove would be an epic contest and poetic justice.
Fair point, but until the Conservative Party was infiltrated by entryists there was no one who would advocate a policy that would risk the break up of the Union. Clearly that is not the case now if opinion polls of so-called Conservative members are accurate.
As I said yesterday I don't believe you are correct at all about the party being infiltrated by entryists. Up until a year or so ago the left of the party including people on here were celebrating the fact that so many Eurosceptics had left the party and even a few months sgo there were claims that the rump of the party were more likely to be pro or neutral on the EU.
And yet it seems that, if the reports are now to be believed, Europhilia of the Heseltine variety represents only a tiny fraction of the membership.
It seems to me that this is not so much a case of entryism as it is a fundemental misunderstanding on your part of the long term views of a large majority of your own party.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise (but seems to) that most Conservatives don't like the EU very much.
Must be a shock to even you that the Tories are prepared to risk the Union to ensure Brexit.
I thought we were the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Some of you need to wake up to what your party has become. You’ve been screaming about Corbynism for long enough; time to pay some attention closer to home?
I'm aware and I'm up for the good fight.
I'm not French, I'm not going to surrender at the first sign of difficulty.
We went from going from IDS to David Cameron, we can do so again.
Going from May to Boris will be like from IDS to Cameron.
Don't believe me? Ask George Osborne.
I wonder if Boris can tempt him back. Boris could really do with his help and organisational skills.
Oh I agree, IDS can be very helpful to Boris.
Indeed he can. The crown for worst leader of the Conservative Party ever is already beyond Boris's grasp. Thanks IDS. Good for something.
Boris is going to need all the support he can get if the ABB contingent on this site is anything to go by.
I don't think so. Very few of us even have a vote and among those that do he seems to be doing ok.
Re what rcs1000 posted, I'd be really sad if this place becomes like Guido Fawkes' comment section. It's a broad church on here but we need to be civil.
Comments
That she was elected leader within 12 months of that nasty speech made me feel ashamed o what the party had become. Such a descent from Cameron.
Sadly HY has a poll that proves conclusively that he’ll be PM by Xmas. Or something like that.
Shame her words weren't backed by her actions.
Cool...
Venn Diagram: Deal Brexit and No-deal Brexit would be two circles with no intersection. Outside the circles means Remain.
Thought experiment for you: if you were offered the chance for the UK to be absorbed into, say, the USA, or India... would you turn down that offer?
If so, you're a nationalist.
If not, I take it back, you probably aren't a nationalist.
While he said he has “endless patience” with Britain, Mr Varadkar said his fellow leaders in the EU-27 had lost patience ahead of the October 31 Brexit deadline.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/20/irelands-prime-minister-warns-eu-27-enormous-hostility-against/
Quoted in The Enigma of Kidson: The Portrait of an Eton Schoolmaster.
Similarly I hope that Boris doesn't end up without Gove on his side, in the same way May and Osborne couldn't work together.
Working together Boris, Osborne and Gove could be a good team. Having them outside the tent pissing in will not be good.
However: just because you have an opinion doesn't mean that opinion cannot be robustly challenged.
Gove might have played an absolute blinder on this though - kept himself in the middle of the pack and only nudged in front when required.
Tim Montgomerie the first of many Bojo fans to reach for the brown trousers.
He's a very effective puncher, but he has no finesse, no majesty. You can see this when he gets challenged on something he's said or done. He punches down, gets filled with indignant rage, sulks and pouts. He's a bruiser, a bully, an egotist. No wonder people think highly of him: thems the times.
I am concerned that he might reward a well known arachnophile with Chancellor for running such an effective campaign. I fear that would be a mistake.
What price will his opponent be ? 12s ?
You do seem slightly obsessed with the negatives of diversity and multiculturalism, especially from certain parts of the world.
Obsessed, obshmessed. Just a passive aggressive insult
A lot could happen during the several weeks of the membership ballot.
And to take as an example of that diversity, muslim Britons have some opinions I disapprove of such as institutional misogyny and homophobia, but also opinions on international community, charity, family values and temperance that are in advance of most WASP Britons. Obviously there is a diversity of opinion within the Muslim community too that matches the spectrum of Christian thought on these issues as wide as the difference between myself and Anne Widdecombe.
https://twitter.com/anguswalkertalk/status/1141721083969769472
I am a big believer in free speech but not if it encourages and embolden people to commit acts of violence. So for instance, my opposition to Johnson's "pillar box" comment stems less from the words themselves than from the knowledge that it led to a spike in attacks on Muslim women. And that Johnson would have known this, and chose to say it anyway, tells you everything you need to know about him.
Macron is pushing Barnier. I don't think that that would be good for us, especially if Boris is seeking to find some flexibility that would allow him to sell the WA mark 2.
Of course when I say election this will be a stitch up in the true EU tradition. Will the rest of the EU be willing to give such a role to a German when there are already so many concerns about their excessive dominance? I suspect not.
LOL. No.
"Just a passive aggressive insult"
Why?
Christian petition mistakenly asks Netflix to cancel Amazon Prime show 'Good Omens'
https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/449513-christians-mistakenly-petition-to-ask-netflix-to-cancel-amazo
Very easy to leak to the Johnson camp.
There are all sorts of events that could intervene to blow him up, including himself.
Saying ‘obsessed’ is just a way of trying to embarrass the person disagreeing with you from continuing. I don’t care anyway I’m all for diversity of opinions
My understanding is that the key roles need to be geographically, politically, big/small country distributed.
The main point is that I wasn’t referring to you anyway, so you were mistaken to infer that I was. Let’s leave it at that 👍🏻
I can see her doing a deal with Boris off her own bat in such a role, just as she did with Turkey on immigration. If I was next in line in Germany I am not sure how I would feel about such a potentially loose cannon holding such a position.
While I have lots of work to do today, I will not hesitate to swing the "ban hammer" if it continues.
Hague has many qualities and is a brilliant orator but leadership was not one of them.
Though Balfour did even worse than Hague in 2001 and Major in 1997, winning just 156 MPs in 1906 (though he recovered to 272 MPs in February 2010).
Can it be done ?
Sure, but not likely I think.
Balfour sets the bar for Boris.
Presumably Hunt, as the other two go down like cold sick north of the border.
(Incidentally, to my knowledge, not a single SCon MP voted Javid. She has lost her authority.)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48702949
It will be whoever is left in tonight not called Boris.
No need to back someone this afternoon for 2hrs.
You can roughly work it out by looking at market midpoints, ie Boris 1.09-1.10 the midpoint is 1.095
1 / ( 1- (1/1.095) ) = 11.5, ie back 11.0
https://twitter.com/PM4EastRen/status/1141679866573676544
Maybe Stewart was one himself.
?
It was a heady time in this country, one of liberation from the long Conservative social shackles. I don't think anyone would have done better. Not Margaret Thatcher. Not even Winston Churchill. And certainly not IDS. It was New Labour's zenith.
'He would (say that) wouldn't he'
"Well he would, wouldn't he?"
Stephen Ward was found guilty of living off immoral earnings (money obtained from Rice-Davies and Keeler among others) – the trial having been instigated after the embarrassment caused to the government.
While giving evidence at Ward's trial, Rice-Davies made a famous riposte. When James Burge, the defence counsel, pointed out that Lord Astor denied an affair or having even met her, she dismissed the denial by stating, "Well (giggle) he would, wouldn’t he?"[9] (often misquoted "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?").[10] By 1979, this phrase had entered the third edition of the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, and is occasionally abbreviated as MRDA ("Mandy Rice-Davies applies").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Rice-Davies#"Well_he_would,_wouldn't_he?"
Sure I might lose it but my level of profit on Boris is quite boring and £15 either way won’t make me ecstatic or not either which way.
But Boris v. Gove would be an epic contest and poetic justice.
Boris +£165
Hunt +£690
Gove +£640
I go on about Jo Swinson a lot, for obvious reasons.
I go on about Ruth Davidson a lot, for obvious reasons.
We’re big fans of the named opponents, for obvious reasons.