Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
Surely it is the Englexit not Brexit then?
Well no as well the English and Welsh were brave enough to go for independence in 2016 the Scots were too frit in 2014 sadly. Shame but there we have it.
Bloody hell.
Is this news to you that Scots were too frit in 2014?
Or while 45% of Scots wanted to end the union is it news to you that some in England feel exactly the same?
It's just incredibly insulting to a whole group of our fellow citizens. Grim.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
The psychology has to favour Gove. The next vote is between Hunt and Gove and only a fool believes Hunt will give Jonson a run for his money. So all the ABB's will vote Gove. My prediction is Gove to get over 100 this afternoon and come in a clear second
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
Surely it is the Englexit not Brexit then?
Well no as well the English and Welsh were brave enough to go for independence in 2016 the Scots were too frit in 2014 sadly. Shame but there we have it.
Bloody hell.
Is this news to you that Scots were too frit in 2014?
Or while 45% of Scots wanted to end the union is it news to you that some in England feel exactly the same?
It's just incredibly insulting to a whole group of our fellow citizens. Grim.
What is insulting?
The fact you are saying that because over 50% of Scots chose to stay in the union with the rest of us it makes them cowards.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hmm an election called next week while the party votes for a leader - that would be real fun....
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
I don't think you can argue that his sentence to Penny Mordaunt was picking holes. It's a statement of opinion. And there is abundant evidence from the last few years that Andrew Neil is enthusiastically pro-Brexit.
He just doesn't like it when others have different priorities to him.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
Surely it is the Englexit not Brexit then?
Well no as well the English and Welsh were brave enough to go for independence in 2016 the Scots were too frit in 2014 sadly. Shame but there we have it.
Bloody hell.
Is this news to you that Scots were too frit in 2014?
Or while 45% of Scots wanted to end the union is it news to you that some in England feel exactly the same?
It's just incredibly insulting to a whole group of our fellow citizens. Grim.
What is insulting?
The fact you are saying that because over 50% of Scots chose to stay in the union with the rest of us it makes them cowards.
No matter what Labour decides to do with regard to a second referendum next week, as things stand it will lose seats. Any party which loses half its vote share in little over six months shouldn’t expect to have any target seats, just defensive positions.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
Tougher than it seems, as young Byronic can attest
The psychology has to favour Gove. The next vote is between Hunt and Gove and only a fool believes Hunt will give Jonson a run for his money. So all the ABB's will vote Gove. My prediction is Gove to get over 100 this afternoon and come in a clear second
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
Surely it is the Englexit not Brexit then?
Well no as well the English and Welsh were brave enough to go for independence in 2016 the Scots were too frit in 2014 sadly. Shame but there we have it.
Wangxit then. Saying it very quickly adds to its aptness..
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
The Toyota Previa is a fantastic car and anyone who owns one displays a refined sensibility to engineering matters of the highest order.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hmm an election called next week while the party votes for a leader - that would be real fun....
Yes, half way through the campaign the leader would change! how quickly can a manifesto be rewritten?
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
And there you have it. Absolutely fucking psychotically certifiable lunatic.
I backed YES in 2014. So why is it lunatic to not desperately want to cling to the union now?
Are malcolmg and his fellow Nats lunatics too?
No. It's just you.
Why for having the same beliefs as others?
I am consistent. I want English votes for English laws. I want to leave both unions.
OK you want an English Parliament, ditch the Welsh, Scots, Irish, etc. And have England as a unitary nation. Now I see your disdain of the EU in context and it makes perfect sense. You don't just want to put border posts up on the Irish border you want them between us and Scotland and along the Welsh border also.
It is pure fantasy but your posts are making a lot more sense now.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
They're going to rip each other to shreads. Even David Davis was run ragged on radio 4 this morning trying to justify Boris's profligacy in London. He was left saying £40 million was 'nothing'
Gove will sharpen up Boris' answers so he is ready to take on Barnier, Corbyn, Farage, Sturgeon and Swinson or Davey
Dislikeable though Gove is remember that last time they locked horns Gove got the better of him. I think he might well do the same again. The more you see of Boris the less competent he looks.
They're going to rip each other to shreads. Even David Davis was run ragged on radio 4 this morning trying to justify Boris's profligacy in London. He was left saying £40 million was 'nothing'
Gove will sharpen up Boris' answers so he is ready to take on Barnier, Corbyn, Farage, Sturgeon and Swinson or Davey
Dislikeable though Gove is remember that last time they locked horns Gove got the better of him. I think he might well do the same again. The more you see of Boris the less competent he looks.
Far rather Gove tests Boris before Farage and Corbyn and Swinson/Davey do
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
The Toyota Previa is a fantastic car and anyone who owns one displays a refined sensibility to engineering matters of the highest order.
Currywurst is best accompanied by ketchup and chips and is worthy of several Michelin stars.
No matter what Labour decides to do with regard to a second referendum next week, as things stand it will lose seats. Any party which loses half its vote share in little over six months shouldn’t expect to have any target seats, just defensive positions.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
You really are batshit crazy.
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
He is by all accounts a Brexiter. And today he has driven a coach and horses through two leading Brexiters' arguments and, with the issue of the Union, of Brexit itself. I don't care what he thinks and I believe he is sufficiently professional to separate his own views out anyway.
Whatever political debate we have in this country would be a lot poorer IMO without him.
Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners
He's also said the complete opposite, like in his interview with the Evening Standard. You guys are being played for fools.
No he hasn't, he has said it is eminently feasible which is not a denial at all.
In any case Macron likely vetoes further extension anyway as Rutte has indicated he would too today unless the UK offers something different.
A Boris FTA for GB and no temporary Customs Union for GB and still backstop for NI until a technical solution is found to the Irish border could be that
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
You really are batshit crazy.
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.
Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
You really are batshit crazy.
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or so
Dislikeable though Gove is remember that last time they locked horns Gove got the better of him. I think he might well do the same again. The more you see of Boris the less competent he looks.
I'm hoping a top form Andrew Neil or Richard Madeley gets his claws into Boris Johnson at some point during the contest.
The problem is, Gove's (and Hunt's) Brexit position is also a fantasy and so there will be no stark contrast on this to be exploited, as there would have been if the opponent had been 'Reality' Stewart.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Brexit is more important than the union.
You really are batshit crazy.
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
He's not a Tory. He is some kind of English nationalist. Def not a Tory.
Perhaps. yet those views are clearly widespread in the party. Brexit is worth more than the Union, the economy, the party. If you are batshit crazy. Thank goodness these people don't have anything politically important to for the next month or so
If @Philip_Thompson is a member of the Conservative Party he will I'm sure shortly do the honourable thing and resign once he has read what it is there for and why.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
The Toyota Previa is a fantastic car and anyone who owns one displays a refined sensibility to engineering matters of the highest order.
Currywurst is best accompanied by ketchup and chips and is worthy of several Michelin stars.
That's a fantastic bet. If, if, he can fend off the shenanigans this afternoon he stands a real chance. Why? Because he's stacks more competent than Boris. Scarily so, in truth.
Dislikeable though Gove is remember that last time they locked horns Gove got the better of him. I think he might well do the same again. The more you see of Boris the less competent he looks.
I'm hoping a top form Andrew Neil or Richard Madeley gets his claws into Boris Johnson at some point during the contest.
The problem is, Gove's (and Hunt's) Brexit position is also a fantasy and so there will be no stark contrast on this to be exploited, as there would have been if the opponent had been 'Reality' Stewart.
Yes. They have all fallen in behind the out by Oct 31st line. I struggle to see how they will manage that unless they are called Boris. But struggle with it any of them will have to and, in my very very humble opinion, we will not be leaving on October 31st or indeed at any other time with no deal.
More Javid voters reported to be going to Gove than Hunt but still close between them
I hope Gove gets through but I am expecting it to be Hunt. Johnson looks to be in a position to engineer that and therefore I think he will.
I think Boris would prefer to face Hunt than Gove. Has the Saj made a recommendation to his legions?
Hunt is now weakened and would not test Boris, Gove would and Boris needs a tough test as May did not have
Hunt tests Boris on competence. Question One at the debate: who made the better Foreign Secretary?
Hunt is the Tory Mitt Romney, changes his position every 5 minutes and Hunt made a huge gaffe in Slovenia saying it was part of the Eastern Block, Boris never made that big an insult to one of his hosts.
Hunt is also now weakened, even if he gets through we know it will be due to Boris votes now most likely not on his merits like Gove
Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
Glad to see you so strongly supporting of a leader that supports same-sex marriage.
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hmm an election called next week while the party votes for a leader - that would be real fun....
Yes, half way through the campaign the leader would change! how quickly can a manifesto be rewritten?
The more I think about it the more I really, really want to see it - just imagine the daily entertainment..
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
So Boris has promised the return of Noel Edmonds before the end of October?
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
Don't see that at all. There is a world of difference between fighting a relatively weak opponent and having a coronation as the other 2 did. Whenever I am tempted to suggest that Brown had no sense of humour I remember his campaign around the UK against no actual opponent trying to win some sort of legitimacy.
Would actually like to see Gove go through just so Boris could hammer him in the membership ballot. Then again, it would be great to see him eliminated today too.
Andrew Neil is absolutely must watch. Mordaunt latest/current casualty.
"Your party has gone bonkers; it thinks Brexit is more important than the Union."
Since Andrew Neil has for a long time been a fervent Leave advocate, if he has suddenly found his own cherished belief system under attack from the beast that he has fed, he should take a long hard look in the mirror as to how that might have come to pass.
Nah. He is a good journalist. If I asked you, for your day job, to skewer a Remainer you would have no problem in doing so and in picking holes in the Remain argument.
I have often thought that it would be fun, here on PB, to have a day when everyone argues the reverse of what they believe.
I am pretty sure Andrew Neil prioritises the Union over Brexit, so I don't think this interview challenges his beliefs.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
He is by all accounts a Brexiter. And today he has driven a coach and horses through two leading Brexiters' arguments and, with the issue of the Union, of Brexit itself. I don't care what he thinks and I believe he is sufficiently professional to separate his own views out anyway.
Whatever political debate we have in this country would be a lot poorer IMO without him.
Neil lets people speak, which is the key function of the interviewer. He doesn't challenge interviewees equally, but if you can rise to the challenge you can do well out of a Andrew Neil interview. I prefer a lower key but more consistent probing from interviewers as get more out of the interviewee that way, but this is entertainment and not just information gathering.
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
Don't see that at all. There is a world of difference between fighting a relatively weak opponent and having a coronation as the other 2 did. Whenever I am tempted to suggest that Brown had no sense of humour I remember his campaign around the UK against no actual opponent trying to win some sort of legitimacy.
Yes but it wouldn't just be about fighting a weakened opponent, would it? It would be about deliberately avoiding a proper contest with the person best able to test him.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
Everyone's unicorn version of Boris puts Brexit on 13%. You've continually said that, others have continually pointed out it may not be true and it definitely may not last..
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
Maybe. But everyday he is becoming less clear about his October 31st deadline. I know you value polls, and in the absence of any other metric they can be useful. But was the poll you cite before or after his non-committal on guaranteeing leaving by October 31st? Was it before or after the ES endorsement?
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
No, Johnson lives in a world where Dick Dastardly's scheming wins him the Whacky Races.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
Maybe. But everyday he is becoming less clear about his October 31st deadline. I know you value polls, and in the absence of any other metric they can be useful. But was the poll you cite before or after his non-committal on guaranteeing leaving by October 31st. Was it before or after the ES endorsement?
Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
More Javid voters reported to be going to Gove than Hunt but still close between them
I hope Gove gets through but I am expecting it to be Hunt. Johnson looks to be in a position to engineer that and therefore I think he will.
I think Boris would prefer to face Hunt than Gove. Has the Saj made a recommendation to his legions?
Hunt is now weakened and would not test Boris, Gove would and Boris needs a tough test as May did not have
Hunt tests Boris on competence. Question One at the debate: who made the better Foreign Secretary?
Hunt is the Tory Mitt Romney, changes his position every 5 minutes and Hunt made a huge gaffe in Slovenia saying it was part of the Eastern Block, Boris never made that big an insult to one of his hosts.
Hunt is also now weakened, even if he gets through we know it will be due to Boris votes now most likely not on his merits like Gove
Boris got a British subject banged up in an Iranian prison.
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
Don't see that at all. There is a world of difference between fighting a relatively weak opponent and having a coronation as the other 2 did. Whenever I am tempted to suggest that Brown had no sense of humour I remember his campaign around the UK against no actual opponent trying to win some sort of legitimacy.
Yes but it wouldn't just be about fighting a weakened opponent, would it? It would be about deliberately avoiding a proper contest with the person best able to test him.
'He's frit,' will stick.
The other perspective is that he has run a ruthlessly efficient and effective leadership campaign eliminating all unnecessary risks and anyone who might have caused him a problem.
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
No, Johnson lives in a world where Dick Dastardly's scheming wins him the Whacky Races.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
In polls that have been discredited.
When? Boris is not leader yet.
Labour meanwhile tied with the LDs and still leaking Remainers
If Boris does win the leadership and it becomes apparent some of his supporters deliberately voted for Hunt then Boris Johnson is as doomed as if he had received a coronation.
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
No, Johnson lives in a world where Dick Dastardly's scheming wins him the Whacky Races.
Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
Boris refused and continues to refuse to guarantee that he would leave by October 31st. Don't mistake what you would like his position to be with what his position is.
As every Leaver on here has said and said again (and I appreciate you did not vote Leave), the UK could, simply, leave the EU at any time. Trash the agreements, or not enter into them, or...or. Just leave. And actually, I have a great deal of sympathy with that. As @isam often says - we voted to leave three years ago and we haven't left. Put aside the damage it might do to the economy, etc, we have not left and it is wholly within our power as, ahem, a sovereign nation, to leave.
And Boris, as PM could therefore guarantee to leave. And he didn't. And them's the facts.
If I were Boris Johnson I'd worry about those spoiled ballot papers.
Greening, Lee, and Grieve?
It's the fact that there are Conservative MPs so alienated from the process that they can't pick from the remaining four candidates. That does not bode well for party discipline.
Anyone who feels that alienated that they can't vote for any of the FOUR candidates remaining (two leavers and two remainers FWIW) should resign the whip.
Bye bye majority
Hello election with all defections replaced as candidates.
Hello Corbyn as PM...
Hello Boris PM with overall majority as BP falls back and Corbyn loses votes to LDs
If there is an election in the limited time available then Boris won't have had the opportunity to convince TBP that he really means it when he says he is going to leave by Oct 31st and Farage, Widdicombe, et al will be replaying his refusal to guarantee leaving by that date at every available opportunity.
Boris has said Deal or No Deal by October, that wins most BP voters back bar No Deal hardliners.
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
They don't believe him. Farage will make a big play of not believing him. Do you think Nige will just call it quits because Boris has said something that he has refused to confirm and which George Osborne has said is just an aspiration?
Do you believe Boris?
Boris slashes the Brexit Party back to 13% or less in the polls, all other remaining candidates keep the Brexit Party over 20% in the polls
Maybe. But everyday he is becoming less clear about his October 31st deadline. I know you value polls, and in the absence of any other metric they can be useful. But was the poll you cite before or after his non-committal on guaranteeing leaving by October 31st. Was it before or after the ES endorsement?
Boris has continued to promise an October 31st deadline.
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
Like free movement of people? Or a 2nd referendum?
More Javid voters reported to be going to Gove than Hunt but still close between them
I hope Gove gets through but I am expecting it to be Hunt. Johnson looks to be in a position to engineer that and therefore I think he will.
I think Boris would prefer to face Hunt than Gove. Has the Saj made a recommendation to his legions?
Hunt is now weakened and would not test Boris, Gove would and Boris needs a tough test as May did not have
Hunt tests Boris on competence. Question One at the debate: who made the better Foreign Secretary?
Hunt is the Tory Mitt Romney, changes his position every 5 minutes and Hunt made a huge gaffe in Slovenia saying it was part of the Eastern Block, Boris never made that big an insult to one of his hosts.
Hunt is also now weakened, even if he gets through we know it will be due to Boris votes now most likely not on his merits like Gove
Boris got a British subject banged up in an Iranian prison.
I believe he would argue that he got an Iranian subject banged up for longer than was necessary in an Iranian prison.
More Javid voters reported to be going to Gove than Hunt but still close between them
I hope Gove gets through but I am expecting it to be Hunt. Johnson looks to be in a position to engineer that and therefore I think he will.
I think Boris would prefer to face Hunt than Gove. Has the Saj made a recommendation to his legions?
Hunt is now weakened and would not test Boris, Gove would and Boris needs a tough test as May did not have
Hunt tests Boris on competence. Question One at the debate: who made the better Foreign Secretary?
Hunt is the Tory Mitt Romney, changes his position every 5 minutes and Hunt made a huge gaffe in Slovenia saying it was part of the Eastern Block, Boris never made that big an insult to one of his hosts.
Hunt is also now weakened, even if he gets through we know it will be due to Boris votes now most likely not on his merits like Gove
Boris got a British subject banged up in an Iranian prison.
Comments
The cheat David Warner taking one in the knackers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/cricket/48708379
Egg banjos, however, yes - our fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHjieD6CTYs
I am consistent. I want English votes for English laws. I want to leave both unions.
He just doesn't like it when others have different priorities to him.
No matter what Labour decides to do with regard to a second referendum next week, as things stand it will lose seats. Any party which loses half its vote share in little over six months shouldn’t expect to have any target seats, just defensive positions.
https://medium.com/@ianjohnwarren/labours-dilemma-yes-it-s-shite-fe6035a5f00c?postPublishedType=initial
Saying it very quickly adds to its aptness..
Chancellor: The Truss
Home Sec: McVey
Foreign Sec: Patel
Hammond, Hunt, The Saj and of course Gove on the back benches. Rory sat next to Heidi.
It is pure fantasy but your posts are making a lot more sense now.
The issue I have with Neil is that his blatant biases get in the way of his interviews, to the opposite effect to what might be expected. He doesn't engage with people he agrees with, which means their arguments don't get tested. He challenges those he doesn't agree with, but if you stand your ground and argue from first principles you can get a good hearing.
"We need Brexit so that the United Kingdom can be Sovereign" went the argument. And now? Bollocks to the Union.
Brexit ends the United Kingdom as a physical entity. Brexit cripples the economy. Brexit destroys the Tory party. And is still cheered on by Tories who insist we need it because the alternative is worse.
What pray tell is this worse alternative if we stay in the EU? A Plague of Locusts? A Manhattan sized asteroid crashing into Milton Keynes? War with France and mandatory snail soup after we lose?
Corbyn likely still leaks Remainers to LDs though even with his vague EUref2 promise
Some Boris backing ERG voters may also vote Gove to ensure 2 Leavers in the final round
Whatever political debate we have in this country would be a lot poorer IMO without him.
In any case Macron likely vetoes further extension anyway as Rutte has indicated he would too today unless the UK offers something different.
A Boris FTA for GB and no temporary Customs Union for GB and still backstop for NI until a technical solution is found to the Irish border could be that
Do you believe Boris?
Why would Boris lend votes to either of the other candidates?
He should aim for biggest possible win, since he can defeat either of Hunt or Gove with the membership.
The problem is, Gove's (and Hunt's) Brexit position is also a fantasy and so there will be no stark contrast on this to be exploited, as there would have been if the opponent had been 'Reality' Stewart.
Vive la WA!!!
Hunt is also now weakened, even if he gets through we know it will be due to Boris votes now most likely not on his merits like Gove
It will come back to bite him hard. It did with Gordon Brown. It did with Theresa May.
'He's frit,' will stick.
"Cleaning up after Boris Johnson's gaffes as foreign secretary was a 'full-time activity', Foreign Office minister says"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-foreign-secretary-next-conservatives-leader-foreign-office-minister-a8939396.html
In any case Rutte joined Macron this morning in saying he would veto further extension beyond October unless something significantly different to the Withdrawal Agreement was proposed
Labour meanwhile tied with the LDs and still leaking Remainers
As every Leaver on here has said and said again (and I appreciate you did not vote Leave), the UK could, simply, leave the EU at any time. Trash the agreements, or not enter into them, or...or. Just leave. And actually, I have a great deal of sympathy with that. As @isam often says - we voted to leave three years ago and we haven't left. Put aside the damage it might do to the economy, etc, we have not left and it is wholly within our power as, ahem, a sovereign nation, to leave.
And Boris, as PM could therefore guarantee to leave. And he didn't. And them's the facts.