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  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Sometimes life is better for repetition. David Lammy is an even bigger arse than I thought possible.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    Sean_F said:

    There's still quite a large rural hinterland to St. Alban's constituency, which will deliver a large and loyal Conservative vote at a general election. I'm not saying the Lib Dems can't do it, but I think it will be tough for them.
    To continue, I thought St. Alban's was a nailed-on Lib Dem gain in 1997, and I still don't know why they performed so badly in a seat where they held three quarters of the council seats. Had they won it then, I'm sure they'd have held it up to 2015, as they could surely have squeezed the Labour vote.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    This might be useful for our future PM Boris "Johnson" Johnson.

    The EU has finally admitted that the £39bn is not "a sum that must be paid", and the payment cannot be enforced in any court. If BoJo refuses to pony up, there would be a negotiation in which the EU might yield in certain areas.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/13/eu-says-reneging-on-brexit-bill-would-damage-uk-economy

    "We’re willing to go into the detail of how that sum breaks down. If a future government would not be ready or willing to pay then the problem is there’s not really a court to settle the dispute, but we do have some arguments.

    “No matter who’s in charge he or she will want to ensure that [the] relationship between the UK and the EU has a future, that in terms of imports and exports, employment law, or programmes such as Galileo [satellite programme] and Erasmus Plus or the Horizon Europe [research programme] – we need to find solutions for all of those programmes.

    “I don’t want to anticipate any future vote but we want to ensure that the EU can negotiate Horizon Europe, Erasmus Plus; we want to have agreement with UK universities and for that, for the future of UK research, we need to settle old debts fairly."

    Galileo? Really? I thought we had already been excluded from that. Intriguing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296

    Watching episode 3 of the Thatcher documentary which shows a brief clip of the 1984 Tory conference. On the stage behind Thatcher both the union flag and EU flags are displayed, side by side. Just imagine that now.

    Yes I noticed that too. Incredible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,567
    edited June 2019

    Time to accept that your Leave vote has done its job and start campaigning to Remain?
    I already switched to remain several months ago. Regardless of who we blame for the mess we are in we are in a great big mess, and compounding that with the most chaotic of exits makes the costs of exiting not worth it in my view. I know that makes me a weak and gutless Brexiter, but it was always a balancing act to make the decision, and the course of the last few years, and certainly so many leavers escalating their demands to the point only a no deal exit is deemed suitable for them, changed the balance.

    However, we will likely be an even more bitter member of the EU moving forward and I think they will come to regret that. We cannot simply go back to the way things were, and I don't believe they have or will change really, so we can all pretend for a time things are hunky dory, but its like the period post the civil war- sure at first glance it looks like nothing was achieved, but you cannot go completely back to the way things were, and they came to ahead again, even if not all the way to destruction.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2019
    kle4 said:

    Must say The Saj underwhelmed a bit in the initial vote - does he have a shot at overhauling Hunt, Give and Raab in the race to see who can lose to Boris?

    It is possible. You could imagine two things. First that Raab will get no transfers because (as the hardest Leaver) anyone who would vote for him already has done. Second that at least some of the McVey and Leadsom voters were looking for anyone who is not male, pale and stale.

    Leadsom, Harper and McVey had 20 votes combined. Matt Hancock scored another 20 and is said to be considering his position.

    So if Saj picks up a few and Raab stands still, then job done. Ir is possible. But is it likely?

  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Boris! Boris! Boris!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107

    Yes I noticed that too. Incredible.
    She had that lovely jumper as well.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    Every time an ERGer said Mrs May's deal was worse than remaining they gave cover for others to oppose the deal.
    Typical cowardly Remainers. They can't summon up the honesty or bravery to face the public openly as ideological opponents of the result of the referendum so they look for excuses instead.

    "It wasn't my fault. It was those nasty boys over there."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838

    Typical cowardly Remainers. They can't summon up the honesty or bravery to face the public openly as ideological opponents of the result of the referendum so they look for excuses instead.
    Yes, "Bollocks to Brexit" is a really ambiguous slogan...
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Byronic said:

    This might be useful for our future PM Boris "Johnson" Johnson.

    The EU has finally admitted that the £39bn is not "a sum that must be paid", and the payment cannot be enforced in any court. If BoJo refuses to pony up, there would be a negotiation in which the EU might yield in certain areas.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/13/eu-says-reneging-on-brexit-bill-would-damage-uk-economy

    "We’re willing to go into the detail of how that sum breaks down. If a future government would not be ready or willing to pay then the problem is there’s not really a court to settle the dispute, but we do have some arguments.

    “No matter who’s in charge he or she will want to ensure that [the] relationship between the UK and the EU has a future, that in terms of imports and exports, employment law, or programmes such as Galileo [satellite programme] and Erasmus Plus or the Horizon Europe [research programme] – we need to find solutions for all of those programmes.

    “I don’t want to anticipate any future vote but we want to ensure that the EU can negotiate Horizon Europe, Erasmus Plus; we want to have agreement with UK universities and for that, for the future of UK research, we need to settle old debts fairly."

    Galileo? Really? I thought we had already been excluded from that. Intriguing.


    A hard Brexit certainly focusses the minds.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    kle4 said:

    I already switched to remain several months ago. Regardless of who we blame for the mess we are in we are in a great big mess, and compounding that with the most chaotic of exits makes the costs of exiting not worth it in my view. I know that makes me a weak and gutless Brexiter, but it was always a balancing act to make the decision, and the course of the last few years, and certainly so many leavers escalating their demands to the point only a no deal exit is deemed suitable for them, changed the balance.
    It does you credit.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317
    IanB2 said:

    Really it’s the ERG, not only on the numbers but for having poisoned the water for their own governments deal before the ink was dry.
    On the numbers it’s obviously not them is it? If they’d all voted for it, it wouldn’t have passed
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kle4 said:

    Frustratingly, I don't know that the EU would change into something Britain was more able to tolerate unless we left (or sought to leave at any rate).
    "England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example"

    William Pitt the Younger, making his last ever public speech, to the Guildhall, in the City of London, 1805.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Watching episode 3 of the Thatcher documentary which shows a brief clip of the 1984 Tory conference. On the stage behind Thatcher both the union flag and EU flags are displayed, side by side. Just imagine that now.


    1984 EU <> 2019 EU
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502

    Watching episode 3 of the Thatcher documentary which shows a brief clip of the 1984 Tory conference. On the stage behind Thatcher both the union flag and EU flags are displayed, side by side. Just imagine that now.

    The Tories were motivated by fear of our own trade unions, and fear of the Warsaw Pact, to join the EU. Once those those ceased to be fears, the Tories became less and less keen on the organisation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,567

    Didn't our PM-in-waiting Boris say the very same thing?
    At the least implied it. He revealed himself to be quite dumb to only realise for MV3 that May was right that it might be deal or no brexit, and still might. If he'd ccontinued opposition I'd get it, though not agree, but in the end he and others accepted however bad it was, it was still Brexit.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317

    Yes, "Bollocks to Brexit" is a really ambiguous slogan...
    You must know that’s the Lib Dem’s, who were the only UK party with MPs elected in 2017 on not respecting the referendum result, so missing the point?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107
    isam said:

    On the numbers it’s obviously not them is it? If they’d all voted for it, it wouldn’t have passed
    With their friends in the DUP, it would. The tiny handful of Tory remainers were balanced off (with a difference of only one) by Labour MPs backing the deal.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Just sent the following tweet to IDS-
    'Surprised that as a practising Christian you find it possible to support such a malign human being as Boris Johnson. Doubtless many Tory MPs would endorse Reinhard Heydrich , were they persuaded that he would save their seats'.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838
    Byronic said:

    "England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example"

    William Pitt the Younger, making his last ever public speech, to the Guildhall, in the City of London, 1805.

    That was Bill Cash's answer when asked about the Brexit model.

    https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/921462568186769408
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,659

    Yes I noticed that too. Incredible.
    Yebbut that was before the Single European Act of 1986.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    edited June 2019

    Yes, "Bollocks to Brexit" is a really ambiguous slogan...
    One they only adopted very recently. The Lib Dems were just as ready to talk about 'respecting the result of the referendum' when it came to the 2017 election. The only ones that showed any real principles were the SNP.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    IanB2 said:

    Your earlier post makes no sense, then, since Copeland being marginal doesn’t mean that your vote “counts”, unless you cast it for Tory or Labour. Voting LibDem or Green in Copeland is a much bigger waste of time than voting LibDem in Camden; at least in the latter case you’ll be voting for the party that comes second, making it easier for them to pick up votes the next time around.
    It means the Tories lose the seat if people like my husband no longer vote Tory. I quite like Trudi Harrison but I am not going to reward the Tories. Also, there are specific green issues in the constituency which I want highlighted and which neither the Tories or Labour are addressing.

    In Camden the Lib Dems are now do far behind that I suspect it will take more than one election for them to catch up.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    That was Bill Cash's answer when asked about the Brexit model.

    https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/921462568186769408
    Alright! I admit it. I am William Pitt the Younger. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296


    A hard Brexit certainly focusses the minds.

    Byronic's excerpt missed the part that said:

    "A spokesman for the French government suggested last week that reneging on the divorce bill would be tantamount to default on sovereign debt, in an indication that member states would also put the rating agencies under pressure to downgrade the state of the British economy."

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    Just sent the following tweet to IDS-
    'Surprised that as a practising Christian you find it possible to support such a malign human being as Boris Johnson. Doubtless many Tory MPs would endorse Reinhard Heydrich , were they persuaded that he would save their seats'.

    Some practising Christians have supported some very dubious people - Tony Blair, for example.

    And, given practising Christians amount to about 10% of the population, I'd say that they have very little option but to support some very dubious people (in their eyes) or else abstain from voting altogether.

    When Christianity was founded, its adherents prayed for some decidedly dodgy Emperors.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107
    Cyclefree said:

    It means the Tories lose the seat if people like my husband no longer vote Tory. I quite like Trudi Harrison but I am not going to reward the Tories. Also, there are specific green issues in the constituency which I want highlighted and which neither the Tories or Labour are addressing.

    In Camden the Lib Dems are now do far behind that I suspect it will take more than one election for them to catch up.
    He can “not vote Tory” in Copeland just as easily by voting LibDem in London.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    justin124 said:

    Just sent the following tweet to IDS-
    'Surprised that as a practising Christian you find it possible to support such a malign human being as Boris Johnson. Doubtless many Tory MPs would endorse Reinhard Heydrich , were they persuaded that he would save their seats'.

    So you did something that clearly marks you as a deranged and embarrassing nutter, and he will justifiably block you.

    And then you came and showed us, like a toddler proudly displaying his recently pooped pants?

    MmmmKayyy......
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838

    One they only adopted very recently. Ghe Lib Dems wrre just ad ready to tslk about 'respecting the result of the referendum' when it came to the 2017 election. The only ones that showed any real principles were the SNP.

    The Lib Dem 2017 manifesto is full of EU flags and promises a second referendum on the deal:

    https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5909d4366ad575794c000000/attachments/original/1495020157/Manifesto-Final.pdf?1495020157
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Sean_F said:

    Some practising Christians have supported some very dubious people - Tony Blair, for example.

    And, given practising Christians amount to about 10% of the population, I'd say that they have very little option but to support some very dubious people (in their eyes) or else abstain from voting altogether.
    There have always been Pharisees, who know the words but not the Spirit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,043
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    Just sent the following tweet to IDS-
    'Surprised that as a practising Christian you find it possible to support such a malign human being as Boris Johnson. Doubtless many Tory MPs would endorse Reinhard Heydrich , were they persuaded that he would save their seats'.

    Trump won the highest share of the evangelical Christian vote in the US for decades despite his sexual assault allegations and multiple divorces so if the agenda is there he will get support.

    JFK got a high share of the Catholic vote despite making Boris look like the Pope in terms of his womanising and Bill Clinton also did far better in the Bible belt then the more straight laced Gore and Kerry.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502

    The Lib Dem 2017 manifesto is full of EU flags and promises a second referendum on the deal:

    https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5909d4366ad575794c000000/attachments/original/1495020157/Manifesto-Final.pdf?1495020157
    Yes, I'd accept that anyone who voted Lib Dem in 2017 (or on May 23rd) was voting against Brexit.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cyclefree said:



    It means the Tories lose the seat if people like my husband no longer vote Tory. I quite like Trudi Harrison but I am not going to reward the Tories. Also, there are specific green issues in the constituency which I want highlighted and which neither the Tories or Labour are addressing.

    In Camden the Lib Dems are now do far behind that I suspect it will take more than one election for them to catch up.

    Is this legal?

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/i-have-two-homes.-can-i-register-to-vote-at-both-addresses

    Second home owners are not meant to pick which constituency they vote in.

    You can't just choose Camden or Copeland, as you please.

    You are specifically required to vote in the place you reside, i.e spend most time.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Byronic's excerpt missed the part that said:

    "A spokesman for the French government suggested last week that reneging on the divorce bill would be tantamount to default on sovereign debt, in an indication that member states would also put the rating agencies under pressure to downgrade the state of the British economy."

    "suggested"

    "tantamount to"

    "in an indication"

    I'm sure they'll try.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    Foxy said:

    There have always been Pharisees, who know the words but not the Spirit.
    It's more the case that if practising Christians are a relatively small minority, they are bound to support people who are either non-Christians or poor Christians, if they vote at all.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic's excerpt missed the part that said:

    "A spokesman for the French government suggested last week that reneging on the divorce bill would be tantamount to default on sovereign debt, in an indication that member states would also put the rating agencies under pressure to downgrade the state of the British economy."

    But that was obviously bollocks, as European officials have since admitted. Disputing a unique, complex exit bill in a sui generis geopolitical situation, is nothing like "defaulting on sovereign debt". Nor does Paris get to decide this, either.

    The French government was talking out of its derriere. It was bloviating for domestic consumption.

    Of course the UK's Brexiting behaviour MIGHT impact on its credit rating, but that is a different matter - and a judgement call for Moody, Fitch, and S&P, not Monsieur Macron. If we Brexit effectively (hard, but not impossible), we might even be UPgraded.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,567
    edited June 2019
    Byronic said:

    Alright! I admit it. I am William Pitt the Younger. ARE YOU HAPPY NOW???
    Yes, I'd like to compliment you on your sterling work during *checks wikipedia* the Nootka Sound Controversy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Brexit is not a conservative project. This is true even if a majority of Conservative allowed themselves to be taken in by it.
    Indeed not. It is, rather, a revolutionary project. Most unconservative.
    Charles said:

    FYI it hit my colleagues’ office.
    It hit the office where I was supposed to be working and where former colleagues of mine were working. It must have been terrifying.


  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    Some practising Christians have supported some very dubious people - Tony Blair, for example.

    And, given practising Christians amount to about 10% of the population, I'd say that they have very little option but to support some very dubious people (in their eyes) or else abstain from voting altogether.

    When Christianity was founded, its adherents prayed for some decidedly dodgy Emperors.
    Some practising Christians are certainly hypocrites - Tony Blair being a good example. IDS appears to be another.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kle4 said:

    Yes, I'd like to compliment you on your sterling work during *checks wikipedia* the Nootka Sound Controversy.
    Shucks. Thanks

    In other news, I have just put the heating on.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Britain Elects


    @britainelects
    Following Following @britainelects
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    Chuka Umunna MP (Streatham) has joined the Liberal Democrats.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed not. It is, rather, a revolutionary project. Most unconservative. It hit the office where I was supposed to be working and where former colleagues of mine were working. It must have been terrifying.


    Wouldn't you say that EU integration is a revolutionary project which no conservative could buy into?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Byronic said:

    Shucks. Thanks

    In other news, I have just put the heating on.

    Greta Thunberg is on her way to complain.

  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Is that Boris's new squeeze accompanying him from his house?

    Nice, but not stunning. 30? 32?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    justin124 said:

    Some practising Christians are certainly hypocrites - Tony Blair being a good example. IDS appears to be another.
    Thank God you are not as other men are, eh?

    Have you ever read the Autobiography of Augustus Carp?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255

    The Lib Dem 2017 manifesto is full of EU flags and promises a second referendum on the deal:

    https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5909d4366ad575794c000000/attachments/original/1495020157/Manifesto-Final.pdf?1495020157
    You are right. I hadn't realised they had broken their word so soon after the referendum.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    Sky think LDs have a new MP after all.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1139277414482284558

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,659
    Byronic said:

    Is that Boris's new squeeze accompanying him from his house?

    Nice, but not stunning. 30? 32?

    Evening, Sean :)

    (only kidding!)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107

    Britain Elects


    @britainelects
    Following Following @britainelects
    More
    Chuka Umunna MP (Streatham) has joined the Liberal Democrats.

    Not a surprise, but interesting he has come on his own. Perhaps the constituency discussions in his case were less problematic than elsewhere. Perhaps there’s a strategy of rolling signups?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,675


    Second home owners are not meant to pick which constituency they vote in.

    You can't just choose Camden or Copeland, as you please.

    You are specifically required to vote in the place you reside, i.e spend most time.

    Yes, you're not supposed to register in a place where you only spend limited time. If, however, it's roughly equal (students are the classic example), you are encouraged to register in both and can then choose (but not vote in both).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,659
    Byronic said:

    Shucks. Thanks

    In other news, I have just put the heating on.
    Ha! Where's yer global warming now? :lol:
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Intriguing! Sounds like the Lib Dems will accept CUKs in seats they might have fancied for their own candidates?

    Then Wollaston might be a good bet for Totnes. I always thought local Lib Dems would tell her to sod off with any quasi-carpet-bagging.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Who the hell is going to do the daily spin for him now? Kellyanne, if she gets booted from her current position for being too political?

    Sarah did the impossible job for more than two years, standing up every day and defending Trump, even when he was contradicting her on Twitter at the same time!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,924
    Chukka on the side of the 6.5% of Streatham Constituents not the 68.5%
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,838
    IanB2 said:

    Perhaps there’s a strategy of rolling signups?

    It makes sense, not so much from a PR perspective but from a party management perspective.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    edited June 2019
    More changes to LD numbers?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Byronic said:

    Is that Boris's new squeeze accompanying him from his house?

    Nice, but not stunning. 30? 32?

    Bit old for you?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502

    Britain Elects


    @britainelects
    Following Following @britainelects
    More
    Chuka Umunna MP (Streatham) has joined the Liberal Democrats.

    I imagine you are not completely disconsolate about that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107
    Laura K confirms Vince is in talks with other CUK’s about joining.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,043
    BBC news confirms Chuka Umunna has told the Times he had defected to the LDs, clearly must be a strong contender to lead the Liberals now in due course
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,090
    Good move for Chukka if true , Wollaston and Allen really should follow suit . They’d all have decent chances of holding onto their seats in a GE.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Foxy said:

    Bit old for you?
    Now now. My wife is right here, watching, closely, very very closely, as I type.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,043

    Chukka on the side of the 6.5% of Streatham Constituents not the 68.5%

    The LDs beat Labour in Lambeth in the European Parliament elections for first place and Lambeth contains Streatham
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107

    It makes sense, not so much from a PR perspective but from a party management perspective.
    Knowing the LibDems I suspect it is more sorting out the situation with the local parties in each case.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,502
    TGOHF said:
    I'm not sure why Philip Lee actually stood for the Conservatives in 2017, if Brexit was intolerable to him.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296

    Chukka on the side of the 6.5% of Streatham Constituents not the 68.5%

    His best chance of retaining that seat though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107
    HYUFD said:

    BBC news confirms Chuka Umunna has told the Times he had defected to the LDs, clearly must be a strong contender to lead the Liberals now in due course

    More nonsense for the pile.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,659
    Byronic said:

    Now now. My wife is right here, watching, closely, very very closely, as I type.
    You forgot the "Corbynista"!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Is Chukka the LDs first effnick MP ?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Yes, you're not supposed to register in a place where you only spend limited time. If, however, it's roughly equal (students are the classic example), you are encouraged to register in both and can then choose (but not vote in both).
    Thank you, Nick, for confirming this.

    Second home owners don't get to choose a la carte where they can vote.

    They are expected to vote where they spend most time.

    A second home owner who spends little time in a constituency but chooses to vote there because it is a marginal is actually subverting the democratic process.

    This is a significant problem in some Welsh seats, e.g, Gwyr.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107
    TGOHF said:

    Is Chukka the LDs first effnick MP ?

    No
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,665
    TGOHF said:

    Is Chukka the LDs first effnick MP ?

    No, Parmjit Singh Gill has that honour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107

    Thank you, Nick, for confirming this.

    Second home owners don't get to choose a la carte where they can vote.

    They are expected to vote where they spend most time.

    A second home owner who spends little time in a constituency but chooses to vote there because it is a marginal is actually subverting the democratic process.

    This is a significant problem in some Welsh seats, e.g, Gwyr.
    Strictly, you can’t choose where you register. If you are multi-registered, you do get to choose where to vote.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    New thread
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,240
    Byronic said:

    Is that Boris's new squeeze accompanying him from his house?

    Nice, but not stunning. 30? 32?

    Bit old for you?
    TGOHF said:

    Is Chukka the LDs first effnick MP ?

    No. Layla Moran is half Palestinian, and Parmjit Gill was Sikh.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    IanB2 said:
    One step at a time. Next stop: the Tory Party. Maybe, he has heard that there is a leadership election going on.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Not a fashionable thought: but I quite like Chukka. He is smart, able, thoughtful, and - let's face it, gay and black - so he represents an unusual demographic, and is a good role model in that way.

    I hope he prospers in the Lib Dems (and we can forget the embarrassment of the CUKs). The next leader of the LDs after Swinson. Maybe the first LD PM in 100 years, in two elections' time.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,665

    NEW THREAD

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Chukka on the side of the 6.5% of Streatham Constituents not the 68.5%

    That was then. This is now. CUIMP4S.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,317
    Byronic said:

    Not a fashionable thought: but I quite like Chukka. He is smart, able, thoughtful, and - let's face it, gay and black - so he represents an unusual demographic, and is a good role model in that way.

    I hope he prospers in the Lib Dems (and we can forget the embarrassment of the CUKs). The next leader of the LDs after Swinson. Maybe the first LD PM in 100 years, in two elections' time.

    Gay?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2019
    IanB2 said:



    Strictly, you can’t choose where you register. If you are multi-registered, you do get to choose where to vote.

    No, that is incorrect.

    Even if you are multi registered, you are NOT meant to pick and choose where your vote.

    If you spend most of your time in Camden, you are meant to vote in Camden.

    If you spend most of your time in Copeland, you are meant to vote in Copeland.

    Read the link I posted.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,287

    Yay, someone got the reference.
    To my eternal shame, I had to google it... :(
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Byronic said:

    This might be useful for our future PM Boris "Johnson" Johnson.

    The EU has finally admitted that the £39bn is not "a sum that must be paid", and the payment cannot be enforced in any court. If BoJo refuses to pony up, there would be a negotiation in which the EU might yield in certain areas.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/13/eu-says-reneging-on-brexit-bill-would-damage-uk-economy

    "We’re willing to go into the detail of how that sum breaks down. If a future government would not be ready or willing to pay then the problem is there’s not really a court to settle the dispute, but we do have some arguments.

    “No matter who’s in charge he or she will want to ensure that [the] relationship between the UK and the EU has a future, that in terms of imports and exports, employment law, or programmes such as Galileo [satellite programme] and Erasmus Plus or the Horizon Europe [research programme] – we need to find solutions for all of those programmes.

    “I don’t want to anticipate any future vote but we want to ensure that the EU can negotiate Horizon Europe, Erasmus Plus; we want to have agreement with UK universities and for that, for the future of UK research, we need to settle old debts fairly."

    Galileo? Really? I thought we had already been excluded from that. Intriguing.

    LOL, the impossible movement slowly starting to happen from the EU side. At least their statement might serve to constrain some of those in the U.K. who think that the £39bn is somehow set in stone, even though the agreement is yet to be ratified.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,107

    No, that is incorrect.

    Even if you are multi registered, you are NOT meant to pick and choose where your vote.

    If you spend most of your time in Camden, you are meant to vote in Camden.

    If you spend most of your time in Copeland, you are meant to vote in Copeland.

    Read the link I posted.
    I did. It doesn’t say that at all.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited June 2019
    Offtopic, but it’s properly kicking off in the sandpit: Iran attacking two oil tankers in the Gulf. :open_mouth:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48630374
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:



    I did. It doesn’t say that at all.

    "You can only register to vote in your local area if you reside at an address in that area.

    Whether or not you reside at an address is not defined in law. Residence is understood to mean a “considerable degree of permanence”.

    This means a person with two homes who spends the same amount of time in each can legally register at both addresses.

    It is unlikely that merely owning a second home that is used for recreation would be enough to qualify you to register to vote in that area. Simply paying council tax on a second home would also not be enough."
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Is this legal?

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/faq/voting-and-registration/i-have-two-homes.-can-i-register-to-vote-at-both-addresses

    Second home owners are not meant to pick which constituency they vote in.

    You can't just choose Camden or Copeland, as you please.

    You are specifically required to vote in the place you reside, i.e spend most time.
    Not that it’s anyone’s business, but my husband lives in Cumbria and votes there. I mostly live in London and vote here. I am not a second home owner. I own one property only: my home. When I finally move permanently to Cumbria, luck and builders permitting, I will vote there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Chukka on the side of the 6.5% of Streatham Constituents not the 68.5%

    They’re going to have to find him a seat surely, or does his mighty ego think he can retain Streatham against labour candidate?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cyclefree said:



    Not that it’s anyone’s business, but my husband lives in Cumbria and votes there. I mostly live in London and vote here. I am not a second home owner. I own one property only: my home. When I finally move permanently to Cumbria, luck and builders permitting, I will vote there.
    " I quite like Trudi Harrison but I am not going to reward the Tories. Also, there are specific green issues in the constituency which I want highlighted and which neither the Tories or Labour are addressing."

    I am not interested in your business, but the above quote did rather puzzle me. I am glad you have clarified that you do not in fact vote in Copeland, and so whether you want to reward Trudi (or not) is irrelevant.

    There are in fact serious problems in Welsh constituencies with significant numbers of second home owners voting, although not really living in the constituency.

    I personally regard that as a breach of the principles of electoral law.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,723
    Sandpit said:

    Offtopic, but it’s properly kicking off in the sandpit: Iran attacking two oil tankers in the Gulf. :open_mouth:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48630374

    While it’s entirely possible they’re responsible, the evidence that Iran did it doesn’t appear exactly conclusive.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,287
    edited June 2019
    Raab has Greg Davies's voice. Seriously.

    Dominic Raab
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS8v_9jjZcc

    Greg Davies
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzgTSRLtXdY
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    " I quite like Trudi Harrison but I am not going to reward the Tories. Also, there are specific green issues in the constituency which I want highlighted and which neither the Tories or Labour are addressing."

    I am not interested in your business, but the above quote did rather puzzle me. I am glad you have clarified that you do not in fact vote in Copeland, and so whether you want to reward Trudi (or not) is irrelevant.

    There are in fact serious problems in Welsh constituencies with significant numbers of second home owners voting, although not really living in the constituency.

    I personally regard that as a breach of the principles of electoral law.
    Students get to register in both and choose which they vote in.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Students get to register in both and choose which they vote in.
    Yes, because they spend ~ 50 per cent of their time in both constituencies. Second home owners don't.
This discussion has been closed.