Do we know if he'll be taking part in the Channel 4 debate on Sunday? Because not turning up for the TV debate worked out really well for TMay in 2017 ...
A woman who prioritised buying food for her children over her rent was not "intentionally homeless". It was "reasonable" for her to do so.
To me this is the sort of decision that Lord Sumption has been having a go at in his Reith lectures. This isn't law, its politics. And our judges are not best placed to make political decisions.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The veneer continues to peel away from the so called Brexit for sovereignty mantra .
I wonder what the response would be if a different PM suspended parliament so that they could send the Article 50 revocation letter .
The fact so many Leavers are happy to turn the UK into a dictatorship as long as they can get their deluded no deal shows once again what they really think of sovereignty .
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
Massive surely isn't within the bounds of reasonable outcomes
I think you are right - Labour would offer a Referendum in a pre-Brexit GE. Corbyn is no lover of the EU but the threat of a LD/Green mop-up of the Remainer vote is too much for him to risk. I think he cares about having the power to implement his domestic policies, more than he cares about Brexit.
Yes. Him and McDonnell. Lifelong socialist outsiders. Now, unexpectedly, with a chance to be PM and Chancellor. Pushing 70, the both of them, and surely aware that this is their one and only shot. Will do what it takes. Will do what maximizes their chance of winning. Might not be enough, but they will not be leaving anything on the bench and that includes the referendum commitment. It will be starting.
McDonnell is pro-EU membership now I think and so are lots of lefties who may have been against it 40 years ago:
In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.
As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
And then you woke up.
As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.
We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
Neither was I. I was saying that what eek ludicrously proposed was the EU declaring war, to which we would have to respond - which then got you muppets piling in on me like I was saying we should launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
And then you woke up.
As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
Wouldn't Boris need to recall HoC to have a snap election in September?
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.
We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
Neither was I. I was saying that what eek ludicrously proposed was the EU declaring war, to which we would have to respond - which then got you muppets piling in on me like I was saying we should launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
You talked of casus belli. It was the most ridiculous piece of jingoism I have seen in the whole of the Brexit debate, and that is saying something. We were not the muppets, you made a complete idiot of yourself and the cause that you seek to speak up for. You have made yourself a parody of a leaver, if that is even possible.
In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.
As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?
In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.
As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?
Save your money, back Warren for POTUS if you need to go for something at around that price
In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.
As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?
Save your money, back Warren for POTUS if you need to go for something at around that price
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Quite reasonable. There is only about one way of leaving the EU in a realistic way and that is to join EFTA, or act equivalently, until a longer term plan emerges. This has been prevented so far, though with TMs deal it would not have been quite impossible. Remaining, or EFTA aka 'Norway for Now' is something Boris could have the courage, unscrupulousness, cheek and leadership to deliver. Very doubtful if anyone else could.
EFTA is a perfectly reasonable result of a 52/48 referendum. it's not as if Norway and Switzerland are basket cases. A second referendum could provide cover for either that or remain. Personally I prefer EFTA for all the reasons Richard North has exhaustively, and exhaustingly, given. BTW it would be hard to say who hates Boris most as there are so many candidates but Dr North must be in the frame for that position.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
And then you woke up.
As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
And then you woke up.
As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
Very true. While of course no dealing will destroy them as an electoral force for time to come. Great croquet parties though to look forward to.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
May is a terrible politician.
Boris's team just needs to be average.
I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
I think we can safely assume he won’t be.
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
And then you woke up.
As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
Very true. While of course no dealing will destroy them as an electoral force for time to come. Great croquet parties though to look forward to.
The one good thing about Brexit is that every possible outcome results in the destruction of the Conservative and Unionist Party. The problem is, their replacement may be even worse.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.
We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
Neither was I. I was saying that what eek ludicrously proposed was the EU declaring war, to which we would have to respond - which then got you muppets piling in on me like I was saying we should launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
You talked of casus belli. It was the most ridiculous piece of jingoism I have seen in the whole of the Brexit debate, and that is saying something. We were not the muppets, you made a complete idiot of yourself and the cause that you seek to speak up for. You have made yourself a parody of a leaver, if that is even possible.
No you have it backwards.
I was ridiculing the preposterous suggestion that the EU would blockade the UK banning planes from flying, banning exports and imports. That would be a casus belli. It also won't happen.
Certainly given the opposition parties will almost all never vote for a 'Tory' Withdrawal Agreement or for No Deal and the DUP will never vote for the backstop it is hard not to see how we do not have a general election
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
It'll not just be Labour remainers going to the Lib Dems though. There'll be a lot of Tory remainers heading that way too.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
Whereupon another ten Tory remainers emerge and we are back to square one.
And the ERG won’t vote for a no deal exit because it isn’t no deal enough....
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?
It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.
If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!
It won't happen but if it did I believe he would be winner. The rule is anyone under 33 is eliminated. If everyone bar one is eliminated then the one must be the winner as per the precedent from Leadsom withdrawing.
Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
May is a terrible politician.
Boris's team just needs to be average.
I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
I think we can safely assume he won’t be.
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
I thought the consensus on here was that polls about hypotheticals are rarely worth the paper they are written on.
Looking at the numbers I think Raab could come second after the next ballot given that of the eliminated candidates today most of McVey and Leadsom's support will probably go to him and Boris and combined that makes 20 votes and Raab was only 16 votes behind second placed Hunt and 10 votes behind 3rd placed Gove in today's first ballot. Harper's support likely goes in multiple directions.
It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).
That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round
Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
May is a terrible politician.
Boris's team just needs to be average.
I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
I think we can safely assume he won’t be.
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
And quite likely imho not to actual become PM. He will not command confidence etc etc
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
Yes. If Boris has No Deal in lights in his manifesto, he'll shed many Tory Remainers to LibDems or even Green. If he doesn't have "No Deal;" up there, Farage will come for him as untrustworthy and the Brexit Party will steal important votes from the Tories. They are still in the bind.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
Looking at the numbers I think Raab could come second after the next ballot given that of the eliminated candidates today most of McVey and Leadsom's support will probably go to him and Boris and combined that makes 20 votes and Raab was only 16 votes behind second placed Hunt and 10 votes behind 3rd placed Gove in today's first ballot.
It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).
That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round
I would guess Hunt. He is continuity May far more than any of the others.
Is it Hunt or Gove who is continuity May? Gove has shifted a long way to the soft side since fronting Leave in the referendum. Like May, he opposed both crashing out and a second referendum. And is there not something Govesque in the prime minister's recent conversion to zero emissions?
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
I thought the consensus on here was that polls about hypotheticals are rarely worth the paper they are written on.
Indeed, back in early 2017 there was a poll that said if there was a general election and the Lib Dems had a policy to stop Brexit whilst Labour did not then the Lib Dems would finish ahead of Labour.
A few months later those were the policies of the Lib Dems and Labour, the Lib Dems polled 7.4% and Labour polled 40%.
Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
May is a terrible politician.
Boris's team just needs to be average.
I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
I think we can safely assume he won’t be.
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
Yes: nasty and incompetent. For all the superficial bonhomie and jolly japes persona, he is a bit like Corbyn in that respect. Corbyn seems polite and would no doubt be nice to chat to about gardening and such like. But there is an unpleasant side to him too eg not bothering to speak to Luciana Berger.
What a dreadful choice. I will not vote for either.
I am resigning myself to the fact that Britain is embarking on a serious of foolish choices which will do great harm to us. I only hope that the hole is not too deep before we start digging ourselves out of it.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
While the Tories sweep Labour away in much of the North and Midlands
Looking at the numbers I think Raab could come second after the next ballot given that of the eliminated candidates today most of McVey and Leadsom's support will probably go to him and Boris and combined that makes 20 votes and Raab was only 16 votes behind second placed Hunt and 10 votes behind 3rd placed Gove in today's first ballot.
It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).
That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round
Javid's votes go to Raab?
Likely, Javid backs leaving in October Deal or No Deal like Raab and unlike Hunt or Gove
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
I agree. I also suspect some of their most spectacular gains will come in London.
Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
May is a terrible politician.
Boris's team just needs to be average.
I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
I think we can safely assume he won’t be.
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
And quite likely imho not to actual become PM. He will not command confidence etc etc
I’m not so sure. I suspect that tribal loyalty will override any claims of conscience. Unfortunately.
Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
May is a terrible politician.
Boris's team just needs to be average.
I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
I think we can safely assume he won’t be.
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
Yes: nasty and incompetent. For all the superficial bonhomie and jolly japes persona, he is a bit like Corbyn in that respect. Corbyn seems polite and would no doubt be nice to chat to about gardening and such like. But there is an unpleasant side to him too eg not bothering to speak to Luciana Berger.
What a dreadful choice. I will not vote for either.
I am resigning myself to the fact that Britain is embarking on a serious of foolish choices which will do great harm to us. I only hope that the hole is not too deep before we start digging ourselves out of it.
Agree. I'm a lifelong (every GE since 1983) Labour voter, firmly in the Lib-Dem camp now.
- Snap election in September. - Big majority for Boris. - Second referendum in 2020.
Why would they bother with #3?
To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances.
Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
While the Tories sweep Labour away in much of the North and Midlands
Labour falling back by a higher percentage in the remainer South East would mean that - for the same national vote share - its vote will hold up better elsewhere. We are wasting our time trying to put current opinion polls through a UNS seat calculator.
What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?
It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.
If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!
It is not inconceivable that all the other candidates could withdraw, as happened in 2016. It would still be in Johnson's interest in terms of strengthening his authority to ask the 1922 to declare him leader such that he was able to take over as PM and start proper preparations for leaving on 31st October but to request that they also instigate a confirmatory ballot of members.
When she hit the rocks after 2017, May's authority was weakened by the absence of a members' ballot.
Interesting that the first debate is before the second ballot of MPs. I wonder how much that will affect things?
In the debate, Hunt should simply stand up and tell MPs to consider which of Boris and Hunt was the best Foreign Secretary. Then we can clean up on William Hague write-ins.
Comments
O/T but another "interesting" decision from the Supreme Court: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-48625914?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business&link_location=live-reporting-story
A woman who prioritised buying food for her children over her rent was not "intentionally homeless". It was "reasonable" for her to do so.
To me this is the sort of decision that Lord Sumption has been having a go at in his Reith lectures. This isn't law, its politics. And our judges are not best placed to make political decisions.
- Snap election in September.
- Big majority for Boris.
- Second referendum in 2020.
Most seats:
Con 2.08
Lab 2.52
Overall Majority:
Con 3.65
Lab 7
We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
I wonder what the response would be if a different PM suspended parliament so that they could send the Article 50 revocation letter .
The fact so many Leavers are happy to turn the UK into a dictatorship as long as they can get their deluded no deal shows once again what they really think of sovereignty .
Lansman
Livingstone
Abbott
Lewis
Even being a socialist and a Euro-federalist is good for you. Delors is still going, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Delors
As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?
Boris's team just needs to be average.
As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
They are pure The Thick Of It now.
EFTA is a perfectly reasonable result of a 52/48 referendum. it's not as if Norway and Switzerland are basket cases. A second referendum could provide cover for either that or remain. Personally I prefer EFTA for all the reasons Richard North has exhaustively, and exhaustingly, given. BTW it would be hard to say who hates Boris most as there are so many candidates but Dr North must be in the frame for that position.
What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?
It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.
If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!
He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.
His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.
If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.
The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)
I expected her to write her name in and then 'nothing has changed'.
I was ridiculing the preposterous suggestion that the EU would blockade the UK banning planes from flying, banning exports and imports. That would be a casus belli. It also won't happen.
And the ERG won’t vote for a no deal exit because it isn’t no deal enough....
It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).
That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round
https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-calls-on-bbc-to-explain-why-jo-brand-battery-acid-joke-was-broadcast-11741134
A few months later those were the policies of the Lib Dems and Labour, the Lib Dems polled 7.4% and Labour polled 40%.
Yes: nasty and incompetent. For all the superficial bonhomie and jolly japes persona, he is a bit like Corbyn in that respect. Corbyn seems polite and would no doubt be nice to chat to about gardening and such like. But there is an unpleasant side to him too eg not bothering to speak to Luciana Berger.
What a dreadful choice. I will not vote for either.
I am resigning myself to the fact that Britain is embarking on a serious of foolish choices which will do great harm to us. I only hope that the hole is not too deep before we start digging ourselves out of it.
Thanks. I’m on the other side of that bet.
But if May cared a bit more about the cruel elements of her Governments policy her complaints would perhaps be taken more seriously.
When she hit the rocks after 2017, May's authority was weakened by the absence of a members' ballot.