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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 2019 now moves to the favourite slot as year of the next gener

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited June 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 2019 now moves to the favourite slot as year of the next general election

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Comments

  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    First?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    First like Bozza! Tally Ho!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    First, having returned from watching the women cricket, which at the time I left was almost certain to be rained off,
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    O tempora! O mores!
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Boris should challenge Barnier to a game of wiff-waff to sort out Brexit.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    dixiedean said:

    First like Bozza! Tally Ho!

    Obviously not...lay the favourite?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Do we know if he'll be taking part in the Channel 4 debate on Sunday? Because not turning up for the TV debate worked out really well for TMay in 2017 ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    I fear that is not the point. The point is keeping the Tory Party in the first 2 after the next GE.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    The opposition from both the EU and Parliament will be much more entrenched.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    FPT
    O/T but another "interesting" decision from the Supreme Court: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-48625914?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business&link_location=live-reporting-story

    A woman who prioritised buying food for her children over her rent was not "intentionally homeless". It was "reasonable" for her to do so.

    To me this is the sort of decision that Lord Sumption has been having a go at in his Reith lectures. This isn't law, its politics. And our judges are not best placed to make political decisions.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Haaaazzzzzzzahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....late to the new thread like Boris practising the pull out technique.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    Can't be any worse.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    Other change today is towards Con winning the next GE.

    Most seats:
    Con 2.08
    Lab 2.52

    Overall Majority:
    Con 3.65
    Lab 7
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why on earth does he call for a second referendum if he's just won a mandate for his preferred form of Brexit?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.

    We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The veneer continues to peel away from the so called Brexit for sovereignty mantra .

    I wonder what the response would be if a different PM suspended parliament so that they could send the Article 50 revocation letter .

    The fact so many Leavers are happy to turn the UK into a dictatorship as long as they can get their deluded no deal shows once again what they really think of sovereignty .



  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    Massive surely isn't within the bounds of reasonable outcomes
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.

    We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
    At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Boris about the same odds as the Brexit party at 9pm on the day of the bye election.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    FPT
    kinabalu said:

    I think you are right - Labour would offer a Referendum in a pre-Brexit GE. Corbyn is no lover of the EU but the threat of a LD/Green mop-up of the Remainer vote is too much for him to risk. I think he cares about having the power to implement his domestic policies, more than he cares about Brexit.

    Yes. Him and McDonnell. Lifelong socialist outsiders. Now, unexpectedly, with a chance to be PM and Chancellor. Pushing 70, the both of them, and surely aware that this is their one and only shot. Will do what it takes. Will do what maximizes their chance of winning. Might not be enough, but they will not be leaving anything on the bench and that includes the referendum commitment. It will be starting.
    McDonnell is pro-EU membership now I think and so are lots of lefties who may have been against it 40 years ago:

    Lansman
    Livingstone
    Abbott
    Lewis

    Even being a socialist and a Euro-federalist is good for you. Delors is still going, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Delors
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.

    As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Lol - if they get 2 why would they go near 3 ?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.

    We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
    In 2022 he will be telling us just because Jezza doesn't have rejoin in the Labour manifesto, that doesn't mean its not nailed on.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    TGOHF said:

    Boris about the same odds as the Brexit party at 9pm on the day of the bye election.

    Nice one.
    :smile:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited June 2019

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    Cause in William's world all roads lead to REMAIN :D
  • Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    And then you woke up.

    As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.

    We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
    At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
    Neither was I. I was saying that what eek ludicrously proposed was the EU declaring war, to which we would have to respond - which then got you muppets piling in on me like I was saying we should launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    And then you woke up.

    As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
    Wouldn't Boris need to recall HoC to have a snap election in September?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Why was it not already the favourite year? The plan a of all candidates wont work and it's the easiest plan b for them to go for a GE.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.

    We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
    At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
    Neither was I. I was saying that what eek ludicrously proposed was the EU declaring war, to which we would have to respond - which then got you muppets piling in on me like I was saying we should launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
    You talked of casus belli. It was the most ridiculous piece of jingoism I have seen in the whole of the Brexit debate, and that is saying something. We were not the muppets, you made a complete idiot of yourself and the cause that you seek to speak up for. You have made yourself a parody of a leaver, if that is even possible.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.

    As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?

    I wish you luck.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Continuity TIG?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.

    As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?

    Save your money, back Warren for POTUS if you need to go for something at around that price
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Pulpstar said:

    In a wild moment I have topped up further on Rory.

    As everything in politics has become so unpredictable and weird, why not him coming out of nowhere and emerging as the Stop Boris candidate who goes to the membership, just as Boris implodes?

    Save your money, back Warren for POTUS if you need to go for something at around that price
    Thanks. I will have a look.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Quite reasonable. There is only about one way of leaving the EU in a realistic way and that is to join EFTA, or act equivalently, until a longer term plan emerges. This has been prevented so far, though with TMs deal it would not have been quite impossible. Remaining, or EFTA aka 'Norway for Now' is something Boris could have the courage, unscrupulousness, cheek and leadership to deliver. Very doubtful if anyone else could.

    EFTA is a perfectly reasonable result of a 52/48 referendum. it's not as if Norway and Switzerland are basket cases. A second referendum could provide cover for either that or remain. Personally I prefer EFTA for all the reasons Richard North has exhaustively, and exhaustingly, given. BTW it would be hard to say who hates Boris most as there are so many candidates but Dr North must be in the frame for that position.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Continuity TIG?
    How not to start a political party.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    And then you woke up.

    As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    And then you woke up.

    As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
    Very true. While of course no dealing will destroy them as an electoral force for time to come. Great croquet parties though to look forward to.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited June 2019

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    I wonder who May voted for.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    chloe said:

    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
    I think we can safely assume he won’t be.

    He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.

    His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.

    If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.

    The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    Odd that there were no spoilt ballot papers.

    I expected her to write her name in and then 'nothing has changed'.
  • RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    Hunt.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited June 2019
    TOPPING said:

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    And then you woke up.

    As has been said before, the survival of the Tory Party now depends on Brexit happening. It would be like a Labour government being elected and abolishing the NHS, or a Ukip government joining the EU. It is in the DNA.
    Very true. While of course no dealing will destroy them as an electoral force for time to come. Great croquet parties though to look forward to.
    The one good thing about Brexit is that every possible outcome results in the destruction of the Conservative and Unionist Party. The problem is, their replacement may be even worse.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    This is williamglenn, he's a broken record.

    We could actually no deal exit on 31 October and he would on 1 November still be talking up a second referendum.
    At least he isn't talking up war with our European allies.
    Neither was I. I was saying that what eek ludicrously proposed was the EU declaring war, to which we would have to respond - which then got you muppets piling in on me like I was saying we should launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.
    You talked of casus belli. It was the most ridiculous piece of jingoism I have seen in the whole of the Brexit debate, and that is saying something. We were not the muppets, you made a complete idiot of yourself and the cause that you seek to speak up for. You have made yourself a parody of a leaver, if that is even possible.
    No you have it backwards.

    I was ridiculing the preposterous suggestion that the EU would blockade the UK banning planes from flying, banning exports and imports. That would be a casus belli. It also won't happen.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    Odd that there were no spoilt ballot papers.

    I expected her to write her name in and then 'nothing has changed'.
    Imagine if Cheryl Gillian had announced "Theresa May: 1"

    :D
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Lynton Crosby's plot to make Boris look competent in comparison?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573

    Continuity TIG?
    The Provisional Group for Continuity Independent Change could perhaps start an armed conflict by declaring war on South Cambridgeshire and Broxtowe.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    MikeL said:

    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!

    If that really happened, Boris would just be coronated
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Certainly given the opposition parties will almost all never vote for a 'Tory' Withdrawal Agreement or for No Deal and the DUP will never vote for the backstop it is hard not to see how we do not have a general election
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    I'd like to think Stewart since he is the true "nothing has changed!" candidate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    I would guess Hunt. He is continuity May far more than any of the others.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    Rory of course
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    It's jolly decent of the TIGgers to have taken on the job of providing us with so much amusement in this worrying time.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    It'll not just be Labour remainers going to the Lib Dems though. There'll be a lot of Tory remainers heading that way too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited June 2019

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    Whereupon another ten Tory remainers emerge and we are back to square one.

    And the ERG won’t vote for a no deal exit because it isn’t no deal enough....
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    Boris was Theresa May's first choice as Foreign Secretary.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Boris Brown.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    Boris was Theresa May's first choice as Foreign Secretary.
    I think she wanted to see him crash and burn. :p
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!

    If that really happened, Boris would just be coronated
    CROWNED DAMMIT
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MikeL said:

    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!

    It won't happen but if it did I believe he would be winner. The rule is anyone under 33 is eliminated. If everyone bar one is eliminated then the one must be the winner as per the precedent from Leadsom withdrawing.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Cyclefree said:

    chloe said:

    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
    I think we can safely assume he won’t be.

    He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.

    His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.

    If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.

    The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)

    As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
    I thought the consensus on here was that polls about hypotheticals are rarely worth the paper they are written on.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Endillion said:

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why on earth does he call for a second referendum if he's just won a mandate for his preferred form of Brexit?
    Because until shown otherwise, remainers will assume that brexit is undeliverable and treat that as axiomatic in their predictions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    Looking at the numbers I think Raab could come second after the next ballot given that of the eliminated candidates today most of McVey and Leadsom's support will probably go to him and Boris and combined that makes 20 votes and Raab was only 16 votes behind second placed Hunt and 10 votes behind 3rd placed Gove in today's first ballot. Harper's support likely goes in multiple directions.


    It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).


    That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Cyclefree said:

    chloe said:

    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
    I think we can safely assume he won’t be.

    He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.

    His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.

    If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.

    The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)

    As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
    And quite likely imho not to actual become PM. He will not command confidence etc etc
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    Yes. If Boris has No Deal in lights in his manifesto, he'll shed many Tory Remainers to LibDems or even Green. If he doesn't have "No Deal;" up there, Farage will come for him as untrustworthy and the Brexit Party will steal important votes from the Tories. They are still in the bind.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited June 2019

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
    The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Looking at the numbers I think Raab could come second after the next ballot given that of the eliminated candidates today most of McVey and Leadsom's support will probably go to him and Boris and combined that makes 20 votes and Raab was only 16 votes behind second placed Hunt and 10 votes behind 3rd placed Gove in today's first ballot.


    It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).


    That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round

    Javid's votes go to Raab?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    I wonder who May voted for.

    I would guess Hunt. He is continuity May far more than any of the others.
    Is it Hunt or Gove who is continuity May? Gove has shifted a long way to the soft side since fronting Leave in the referendum. Like May, he opposed both crashing out and a second referendum. And is there not something Govesque in the prime minister's recent conversion to zero emissions?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    RobD said:

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
    I thought the consensus on here was that polls about hypotheticals are rarely worth the paper they are written on.
    Indeed, back in early 2017 there was a poll that said if there was a general election and the Lib Dems had a policy to stop Brexit whilst Labour did not then the Lib Dems would finish ahead of Labour.

    A few months later those were the policies of the Lib Dems and Labour, the Lib Dems polled 7.4% and Labour polled 40%.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    chloe said:

    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
    I think we can safely assume he won’t be.

    He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.

    His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.

    If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.

    The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)

    As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.

    Yes: nasty and incompetent. For all the superficial bonhomie and jolly japes persona, he is a bit like Corbyn in that respect. Corbyn seems polite and would no doubt be nice to chat to about gardening and such like. But there is an unpleasant side to him too eg not bothering to speak to Luciana Berger.

    What a dreadful choice. I will not vote for either.

    I am resigning myself to the fact that Britain is embarking on a serious of foolish choices which will do great harm to us. I only hope that the hole is not too deep before we start digging ourselves out of it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    GIN1138 said:
    Finally, the police are investigating real crimes.

    :p
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    IanB2 said:

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
    The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
    While the Tories sweep Labour away in much of the North and Midlands
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    Looking at the numbers I think Raab could come second after the next ballot given that of the eliminated candidates today most of McVey and Leadsom's support will probably go to him and Boris and combined that makes 20 votes and Raab was only 16 votes behind second placed Hunt and 10 votes behind 3rd placed Gove in today's first ballot.


    It is also likely Hancock on 20 votes today and Javid on 23 will be eliminated in the next round too and fail to clear the 33 votes hurdle along probably with Stewart on 19 votes today (unless he really picks up momentum).


    That leaves Boris, Raab, Hunt and Gove as the final 4 and assuming most of Hancock and Stewart's votes go to Hunt and most of Javid's votes go to Raab where Gove's votes go after he is eliminated will be decisive in determining which of Raab and Hunt faces Boris in the membership ballot runoff after the final round

    Javid's votes go to Raab?
    Likely, Javid backs leaving in October Deal or No Deal like Raab and unlike Hunt or Gove
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    IanB2 said:

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
    The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
    I agree. I also suspect some of their most spectacular gains will come in London.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    chloe said:

    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
    I think we can safely assume he won’t be.

    He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.

    His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.

    If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.

    The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)

    As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.
    And quite likely imho not to actual become PM. He will not command confidence etc etc
    I’m not so sure. I suspect that tribal loyalty will override any claims of conscience. Unfortunately.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    The centrists and centre-lefties backing Rory?

    Thanks. I’m on the other side of that bet.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Interesting that the first debate is before the second ballot of MPs. I wonder how much that will affect things?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!

    If that really happened, Boris would just be coronated
    CROWNED DAMMIT
    Push!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    chloe said:

    TGOHF said:

    chloe said:

    Can’t see how Boris is going to be any more successful than May in resolving Brexit.

    May is a terrible politician.

    Boris's team just needs to be average.
    I hope he is better at being PM than he was Foreign Secretary.
    I think we can safely assume he won’t be.

    He is untrustworthy, a liar, afraid of scrutiny, a bit of a bully (expecting photos of the votes for him has a hint of G. Brown-style menace ), incompetent, frivolous and is not respected. He simply is not serious or thoughtful.

    His election as leader will neutralise many of the attacks that could be made against Corbyn and his move towards Brexit and even the contemplation of shutting down Parliament will alienate many of those who voted for him in the past.

    If the Tories choose him it simply shows that they are no longer a serious party, that old-fashioned, sensible Conservatism is dead and that they put the interests of their own party above those of the country.

    The Tories are not thinking straight. Choosing Boris is simply them indulging in a group hug. (A much more vulgar term would be more accurate but it is still early and this is a respectable site.)

    As Eddie Mair memorably, and rightly, said he's a nasty piece of work.

    Yes: nasty and incompetent. For all the superficial bonhomie and jolly japes persona, he is a bit like Corbyn in that respect. Corbyn seems polite and would no doubt be nice to chat to about gardening and such like. But there is an unpleasant side to him too eg not bothering to speak to Luciana Berger.

    What a dreadful choice. I will not vote for either.

    I am resigning myself to the fact that Britain is embarking on a serious of foolish choices which will do great harm to us. I only hope that the hole is not too deep before we start digging ourselves out of it.
    Agree. I'm a lifelong (every GE since 1983) Labour voter, firmly in the Lib-Dem camp now.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    GIN1138 said:
    Well, it was a damn silly thing to say.

    But if May cared a bit more about the cruel elements of her Governments policy her complaints would perhaps be taken more seriously.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Endillion said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!

    If that really happened, Boris would just be coronated
    CROWNED DAMMIT
    Push!
    I can see the baby's head!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited June 2019
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tory recovery plan:

    - Snap election in September.
    - Big majority for Boris.
    - Second referendum in 2020.

    Why would they bother with #3?
    To get off the hook for delivering Brexit.
    Your dreaming if you think that will happen. If Boris wins a massive majority on the basis on getting Brexit through, they aren't going to go for a second referendum.
    The most accurate way to predict the future is to start from the assumption that Brexit won't happen, and then work backwards from there to fit the current circumstances. ;)
    Boris winning a big majority ain't going to happen. The Tories under Boris absolute best case is scraping a majority with the combination of those who want Brexit and the never Corbyn's, with just the correct amount of Labour voters splitting to Lib Dems because of Jezza's fence sitting.
    The only published poll so far gave the Conservatives a majority of 140 under Johnson. Now there are a number of reasons why you may be sceptical that that is the most probable outcome, and I think most of us here would view that as tending towards an extreme of a wide variety of possible outcomes. However, in the face of such evidence you are just closing your eyes to the facts if you claim that the "absolute best case" is the Conservatives scraping a majority under Johnson.
    The assumptions beneath that projection are obvious nonsense. The LibDems aren’t going to near treble their national vote by merrily adding the same percentage in every seat. On those percentages the LibDems will be sweeping Tories away through much of the Home Counties and South West.
    While the Tories sweep Labour away in much of the North and Midlands
    Labour falling back by a higher percentage in the remainer South East would mean that - for the same national vote share - its vote will hold up better elsewhere. We are wasting our time trying to put current opinion polls through a UNS seat calculator.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    MikeL said:

    Rules Question:

    What happens if Boris is the only person to get 33 votes in Round 2? Would he be declared winner or would top 2 still go to members?

    It's not actually that far off from happening - would only need Hunt and Gove to lose a few votes.

    If threshold in Round 2 had been 15% and not 10% then it easily could have happened!

    It is not inconceivable that all the other candidates could withdraw, as happened in 2016. It would still be in Johnson's interest in terms of strengthening his authority to ask the 1922 to declare him leader such that he was able to take over as PM and start proper preparations for leaving on 31st October but to request that they also instigate a confirmatory ballot of members.

    When she hit the rocks after 2017, May's authority was weakened by the absence of a members' ballot.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    GIN1138 said:
    Well, it was a damn silly thing to say.

    But if May cared a bit more about the cruel elements of her Governments policy her complaints would perhaps be taken more seriously.
    Ah, Tories are evil so Brand can say what she wants? OK.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    RobD said:

    Interesting that the first debate is before the second ballot of MPs. I wonder how much that will affect things?

    In the debate, Hunt should simply stand up and tell MPs to consider which of Boris and Hunt was the best Foreign Secretary. Then we can clean up on William Hague write-ins.
This discussion has been closed.