> @another_richard said: > > @noneoftheabove said: > > > @Sean_F said: > > > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > > > This is why I really like Matt Hancock. > > > > > > > > > > > > Matt Hancock has lambasted Conservative leadership rival Boris Johnson for his anti-business stance, arguing that the party should repair relations with corporate Britain, which has felt shunned by the May government. > > > > > > > > In a wide-ranging interview with the FT, the health secretary and leadership candidate set out his proposals to revitalise the economy, break the Brexit stalemate and rebuild relations with businesses. > > > > > > > > Acknowledging that the Tories had put too much distance between themselves and wealth creators, he referred to an infamous remark by Mr Johnson: “To the people who say ‘fuck business’, I say ‘fuck, fuck business’.” > > > > > > > > The former foreign secretary reportedly said “fuck business” last year in response to the fears of some business leaders that a hard Brexit would cause economic damage and disrupt trading relations. He has refused to deny making the remark, but his allies insist Mr Johnson has a record “of supporting businesses great and small”. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ft.com/content/b18dd0c8-8151-11e9-9935-ad75bb96c849 > > > > > > While that is so, big business needs to repair relations with its natural supporters. > > > > "Big business" has changed so much in the last 20 years, and does need reform. > > > > Executive pay is ludicrous, the idea that you need to pay £10m for a CEO because another firm does makes no sense. What is the realistic difference in ability between people willing to work for £1m or £10m? I would be pretty confident there is none, it will simply be candidates being in the right place at the right time. > > > > Companies with billions of profit, paying little tax and few employees is a relatively new concept, they need to be dealt with. > > > > But these are not the target of Boris' F-business, the companies who will be hit hardest by Brexit are those offering some of the best jobs available for median earners across the country. Those are the companies and people he could not care less about as long as he sits on the throne. > > Isn't it curious how globalisation has led to downward pressure on workers earnings but upward pressure on executive earnings.
It is not globalisation that has driven executive earnings upwards but a mix of greed, envy and lack of ethics and decency amongst company executives combined with shares being mostly held indirectly via pensions/funds whose directors are part of the same gravy train so do nothing to protect the underlying shareholders interests. It is an obvious case of the free market not working as intended and where the state should step in.
> @Benpointer said: > > @Byronic said: > > This feels calamitous for Labour. Civil war on social media. But then the Tories aren't doing much/any better. A plague on ALL their houses. > > > > fpt, I loved this from foxy > > > > > > "The imminent collapse of the EU is such a perennial favourite, that it rivals the Punic wars for ubiquity, yet it goes from strength to strength. " > > > > The EU is going from strength to strength??? > > > > lol. Let's break this down. > > > > Arguably its most symbolic and influential member - France - is roiled in endless civil conflict, often deeply violent. In another major nation, Italy, where the EU was founded (the Treaty of Rome) - an openly eurosceptic party is triumphant. Meanwhile, its largest Eastern European member, Poland, has now consistently elected europhobic governments. > > > > To cap it all off, perhaps its most globally significant member - the UK (if you add together soft power with hard power plus the English language) - is now actively leaving. > > > > Then there's the endless recession of Greece. The catastrophe of the euro. Hideously slow growth. The immigration crisis. Terrorism. On and on and on. > > > > And this political union, and would-be empire, is going from "strength to strength"??? > > > > You fucking bawling idiot. I am a Remainer, because it is too economically damaging to Leave, but this is just the most rancid drivel. The EU is deeply, deeply troubled, and very possibly doomed. > > > > If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850, Rome around the 1st century AD, the USA from 1890-1950, or China about now. The EU is the Austro-Hungarian Empire in middle age, with a bit of the USSR in about 1970. > > > > > > The jaw-droppingly basic mistake you are making is to categorise the EU as an empire. <
++++
These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
"The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
> @rcs1000 said: > @Sean_F said: > The culture of there being no penalty for failure, and boards ripping off employees, pensioners, customers, shareholders, or creditors has generated widespread disgust. > > ++++++++++++++++++++++ > > What do you think an appropriate penalty for failure should be? > > I was thinking of some kind of ritual disemboweling, but am open to suggestions
How about getting dismissed without a f*cking great payoff?
> @Byronic said: > > @WhisperingOracle said: > > > @Scott_P said: > > > https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1133479539911385088 > > > > Good analysis from Steve Richards. I think Rory is a candidate for the future, once the current type of populism has driven into the mud.< > > +++++ > > That's actually very convincing from Rory. Contrast that with the dreadful video from Javid. > > Rory sounds genuine, convinced, and not scared to use the word "love". Which is brave. But it works. The opposite of wonkish wooden politics, or Corbynesque sloganising, while avoiding sentimentality. > > However I agree it is a bit too early for him (and he is too posh, Etonian and Remainery for the moment) > > I reckon the Tories' best bet is Gove, with Stewart as 2nd in command. A Brexiteer closely supported by a Remainer.
A bit motherhood and apple pie for me. I thought the citizens assembly was ridiculous - surely that is what parliament is for.
I'm awfully confused, I feel like I've seen reports he has already in effect backed it about half a dozen times in the past month alone. I don't doubt it will eventually be undeniable, but really does it deserve fanfare when many of the party have claimed it is their policy for months anyway?
Pretty sure it will turn out to be a sack full of weasel words.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @rottenborough said: > > How can anyone not be able to load a dishwasher (assuming they are fit and able)? > > It is an art. The other members of my household have not quite perfected it. >
The positioning of flippable plastic items, in particular, requires the sort of care and attention that Mrs Rata just does not appreciate.
@Byronic said: These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
"The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > The idea that Scotland is, or will ever be, in any way different from England in terms of its notions of class, is one of the quainter delusions I've read here. But yes, the PB response to the online survey...
'In any way'
I see you must live a pretty cloistered existence, in a walled compound perhaps with Downton Abbey on 24/7.
> @Pro_Rata said: > > @StuartDickson said: > > > @rottenborough said: > > > How can anyone not be able to load a dishwasher (assuming they are fit and able)? > > > > It is an art. The other members of my household have not quite perfected it. > > > > The positioning of flippable plastic items, in particular, requires the sort of care and attention that Mrs Rata just does not appreciate.
> > Good analysis from Steve Richards. I think Rory is a candidate for the future, once the current type of populism has driven into the mud.<
>
> +++++
>
> That's actually very convincing from Rory. Contrast that with the dreadful video from Javid.
>
> Rory sounds genuine, convinced, and not scared to use the word "love". Which is brave. But it works. The opposite of wonkish wooden politics, or Corbynesque sloganising, while avoiding sentimentality.
>
> However I agree it is a bit too early for him (and he is too posh, Etonian and Remainery for the moment)
>
> I reckon the Tories' best bet is Gove, with Stewart as 2nd in command. A Brexiteer closely supported by a Remainer.
A bit motherhood and apple pie for me. I thought the citizens assembly was ridiculous - surely that is what parliament is for.
A press officer who used to work at The Sun would say, 'never use long words like maelstrom in a political video'. But otherwise good stuff.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > The SNP must be absolubtely cock a hoop about all this. The Brexit party pretty much cleaning up in England and Wales is catnip for them. > > The best bit is that this mess is *entirely* self-inflicted. > > Cameron wasn’t happy with simply firing a revolver at his foot. He thought it wise to release a whopping great nuclear dirty bomb right at the heart of the English body politic. > > You will be cleaning up your scarred nation for decades to come. We Scots are just looking on aghast. How, oh how, could you be so daft?
A question that will tax historians for centuries in the future. Possibly the most damaging political blunder since Charles I tried to rule without parliament.
These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
"The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
Emperor Juncker has quite a ring to it. You might be onto something.
I prefer something a little bit more obscure. I think EU commissioners should be given governing authority over regions and be called Exarchs. With the EU also being almost religious in its self belief it fits quite well.
...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
As a Lib Dem, I am both happy that so many grandees from labour and the Tories voted with us, and sad that their respective parties are now being vindictive enough to expel them. This whole sorry mess has been caused by Cameron appeasing the brexiteers originally and Corbyn with his tepid support of remain.
> @GarethoftheVale2 said: > > @Byronic said: > > > @WhisperingOracle said: > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1133479539911385088 > > > > > > Good analysis from Steve Richards. I think Rory is a candidate for the future, once the current type of populism has driven into the mud.< > > > > +++++ > > > > That's actually very convincing from Rory. Contrast that with the dreadful video from Javid. > > > > Rory sounds genuine, convinced, and not scared to use the word "love". Which is brave. But it works. The opposite of wonkish wooden politics, or Corbynesque sloganising, while avoiding sentimentality. > > > > However I agree it is a bit too early for him (and he is too posh, Etonian and Remainery for the moment) > > > > I reckon the Tories' best bet is Gove, with Stewart as 2nd in command. A Brexiteer closely supported by a Remainer. > > A bit motherhood and apple pie for me. I thought the citizens assembly was ridiculous - surely that is what parliament is for.
Parliament is too partisan - there is clearly very little difference between what Nandy and May wanted on the WA yet neither can say so. A citizens assembly takes all that away, and would have the time to pressure the leavers to come up with the workable answers that are needed but easily evaded in short media interviews.
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @noneoftheabove said: > > > > @Sean_F said: > > > > > > > > While that is so, big business needs to repair relations with its natural supporters. > > > > > > "Big business" has changed so much in the last 20 years, and does need reform. > > > > > > Executive pay is ludicrous, the idea that you need to pay £10m for a CEO because another firm does makes no sense. What is the realistic difference in ability between people willing to work for £1m or £10m? I would be pretty confident there is none, it will simply be candidates being in the right place at the right time. > > > > > > Companies with billions of profit, paying little tax and few employees is a relatively new concept, they need to be dealt with. > > > > > > But these are not the target of Boris' F-business, the companies who will be hit hardest by Brexit are those offering some of the best jobs available for median earners across the country. Those are the companies and people he could not care less about as long as he sits on the throne. > > > > Isn't it curious how globalisation has led to downward pressure on workers earnings but upward pressure on executive earnings. > > It is not globalisation that has driven executive earnings upwards but a mix of greed, envy and lack of ethics and decency amongst company executives combined with shares being mostly held indirectly via pensions/funds whose directors are part of the same gravy train so do nothing to protect the underlying shareholders interests. It is an obvious case of the free market not working as intended and where the state should step in.
Greed is the cause, globalisation is the excuse used to 'justify' it.
'We have to pay the going rate to compete with international businesses.'
I was being ironic / sarcastic in my earlier comment.
> @RobD said: > > @rcs1000 said: > > Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address? > > > > (waits...) > > With great power etc. etc.
Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area.
So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
> @anothernick said: > > @StuartDickson said: > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > The SNP must be absolubtely cock a hoop about all this. The Brexit party pretty much cleaning up in England and Wales is catnip for them. > > > > The best bit is that this mess is *entirely* self-inflicted. > > > > Cameron wasn’t happy with simply firing a revolver at his foot. He thought it wise to release a whopping great nuclear dirty bomb right at the heart of the English body politic. > > > > You will be cleaning up your scarred nation for decades to come. We Scots are just looking on aghast. How, oh how, could you be so daft? > > A question that will tax historians for centuries in the future. Possibly the most damaging political blunder since Charles I tried to rule without parliament.
Shhh... don’t give the dunderheids any ideas. Next they’ll be wanting to prorogue parliament. Oh, wait a minute...
> > The jaw-droppingly basic mistake you are making is to categorise the EU as an empire. < > > ++++ > > These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So... > > Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007 > > "The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso" > > > https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458 > > Case closed. Next.
----------------------
FFS! Was it too much for you to read beyond the headline of article you quoted?
Here, let me help you out:
<i>Mr Barroso said "We are a very special construction unique in the history of mankind,"
"Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire," he said.
He went on the clarify that instead of like super state empires of old, the EU empire is built on voluntary pooling of power and not on military conquest.
"What we have is the first non-imperial empire," said the centre-right Mr Barroso, who was formally Portugal's prime minister.
"We have 27 countries that fully decided to work together and to pool their sovereignty. I believe it is a great construction and we should be proud of it.</i>
> @kle4 said: > Yeh right: > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536 > > > > I'm awfully confused, I feel like I've seen reports he has already in effect backed it about half a dozen times in the past month alone. I don't doubt it will eventually be undeniable, but really does it deserve fanfare when many of the party have claimed it is their policy for months anyway?
Labour will now close the stable door but the Lib Dems and Greens have already taken the horse.
Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
> @Benpointer said: > > @Byronic said: > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > The jaw-droppingly basic mistake you are making is to categorise the EU as an empire. < > > > > ++++ > > > > These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So... > > > > Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007 > > > > "The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso" > > > > > > https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458 > > > > Case closed. Next. > > ---------------------- > > FFS! Was it too much for you to read beyond the headline of article you quoted? > > Here, let me help you out: > > <i>Mr Barroso said "We are a very special construction unique in the history of mankind," > > "Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire," he said. > > He went on the clarify that instead of like super state empires of old, the EU empire is built on voluntary pooling of power and not on military conquest. > > "What we have is the first non-imperial empire," said the centre-right Mr Barroso, who was formally Portugal's prime minister. > > "We have 27 countries that fully decided to work together and to pool their sovereignty. I believe it is a great construction and we should be proud of it.</i>
He might believe that rubbish, Others choose to see it differently.
> > The SNP must be absolubtely cock a hoop about all this. The Brexit party pretty much cleaning up in England and Wales is catnip for them.
>
> The best bit is that this mess is *entirely* self-inflicted.
>
> Cameron wasn’t happy with simply firing a revolver at his foot. He thought it wise to release a whopping great nuclear dirty bomb right at the heart of the English body politic.
>
> You will be cleaning up your scarred nation for decades to come. We Scots are just looking on aghast. How, oh how, could you be so daft?
A question that will tax historians for centuries in the future. Possibly the most damaging political blunder since Charles I tried to rule without parliament.
Might have worked a bit longer if not for those pesky Scots causing trouble!
> @rcs1000 said: > > @RobD said: > > > @rcs1000 said: > > > Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address? > > > > > > (waits...) > > > > With great power etc. etc. > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. > > So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
How reliable are IP addresses? Here's me lying in bed in west Devon being told by whatismyip.com that I am in : London, ENG GB.
> @viewcode said: > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it? > > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
> @rcs1000 said: > > @viewcode said: > > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it? > > > > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs. > > It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Or if he starts talking about how all British Muslims should be deported to Saudi Arabia
> @Ishmael_Z said: > > @rcs1000 said: > > > @RobD said: > > > > @rcs1000 said: > > > > Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address? > > > > > > > > (waits...) > > > > > > With great power etc. etc. > > > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. > > > > So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now. > > How reliable are IP addresses? Here's me lying in bed in west Devon being told by whatismyip.com that I am in : London, ENG GB.
They're not perfect. But most people's home IP address remains the same for long periods. I know, therefore, the last time that a poster accessed the site, by looking at when that IP last loaded a page
In the case of SeanT, his IP address is still in use, because I see it come up in the logs. That makes me reasonably confident that Byronic is not him. (Simply, while it's possible that SeanT is technically sophisticated enough to use one IP for browsing and another for posting, it doesn't seem likely.)
> @rcs1000 said: > > @viewcode said: > > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it? > > > > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs. > > It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Or how massive a royalty cheque has just arrived in the post from an overseas deal for literally doing bugger all...
Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
> @Byronic said: > > @Luckyguy1983 said: > > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?< > > +++++ > > I. Am. Not. SeanT. > > I have lurked. I know exactly who you mean. I liked his style. He was a Leaver. I am not. > > I suggest you ask the PB moderators for confirmation. They know my email address and credentials.
He WAS a Leaver. Except on Wednesdays when he was rudely awakened by a hangover. And several other days, tbh.
He was a Brexit weathervane.
EDIT: Hang on, isn't the vane the fixed bit that reads N, E, S, W? He'd be the bit that moves.
> @FrancisUrquhart said: > Unfortunately I think Rory The Tory is a case of wrong place, wrong time given the way the Tory membership is and the country at large.
I think if you want to see the Tories do well, 'unfortunately' is correct in this instance - he does seem a breath of fresh air but must have zero chance of winning the leadership race.
> @Benpointer said: > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > Unfortunately I think Rory The Tory is a case of wrong place, wrong time given the way the Tory membership is and the country at large. > > I think if you want to see the Tories do well, 'unfortunately' is correct in this instance - he does seem a breath of fresh air but must have zero chance of winning the leadership race.
> @viewcode said: > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now. > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
> @FrancisUrquhart said: > Unfortunately I think Rory The Tory is a case of wrong place, wrong time given the way the Tory membership is and the country at large.
If I had a vote, he would be on my list of candidates seriously worth considering.
He comes over well, he is clearly thoughtful and speaks directly. You might hardly even notice he is a Tory...
> @rcs1000 said: > > @viewcode said: > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now. > > > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please. > > I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it?
> @viewcode said: > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850... > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please. > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting... )
Bloody Americans. Why can’t they understand that they’re too wee, too poor and too stupid to govern themselves. Oh, wait a minute...
> > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
> >
> > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
>
> It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Or how massive a royalty cheque has just arrived in the post from an overseas deal for literally doing bugger all...
> @rcs1000 said: > > @viewcode said: > > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it? > > > > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs. > > It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
It would be totally unlike SeanT to come on to PB with a new persona. That Gildas bloke for example, that definitely wasn't him.
> > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
> >
> > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
>
> I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it?
> Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
>
> Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
Thank you for offering but it's unnecessary thank you.
> @ah009 said: > I think there is a perfectly coherent case to be made for the EU being an empire. As long as you start by utterly redefining what "empire" means. >
Indeed. In the same way black can be defined as white.
...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please...
Bloody Americans. Why can’t they understand that they’re too wee, too poor and too stupid to govern themselves. Oh, wait a minute...
Kate Hoey should be deselected not because she supports Brexit but because she’s willing to countenance a no deal and is happy to share a platform with the hate monger Farage .
Any Labour MP who doesn’t vote to stop no deal should suffer the same fate .
> @kle4 said: > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff > > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said: > > > Yeh right: > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536 > > > > > > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs > > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more.
Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > @rcs1000 said: > > > > @viewcode said: > > > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now. > > > > > > > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please. > > > > > > I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview... > > > > Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it? > > Yes, everyone should use: > http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7642/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-the-campbell-expulsion-from-lab-the-ramifications-continue
Tried it, but I don't like it.
I don't like the fact that you cannot easily see the thread header and I particularly don't like the way the comment are ordered old to new, meaning you have to page down to the end to see the most recent.
...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
(Sorry, but it was too tempting... )
Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
> @ah009 said: > I think there is a perfectly coherent case to be made for the EU being an empire. As long as you start by utterly redefining what "empire" means. >
+++
See below. The EU elite have self defined themselves as ruling an "empire". So there ya go.
Self definition is on trend, and on point. It's what you're meant to do. So, an empire it is. A loose kinda bureaucratic Austro-Hungarian empire, but an empire nonetheless.
The parallels with Austro-Hungary are spookily deepy and profound. Not necessarily malign, or morally wrong, but officious, inept, sluggish, awkwardly lumped, unnatural, and sometimes powerful yet not quite the sum of its parts - it is all that.
I don't know why it surprised me, but in looking for info on Tory MPs re the leadership contest, I discovered Stephen Barclay is indeed still Brexit Secretary. I know the role was downgraded, but the man has been completely invisible, I just assumed he had quit at some point or something.
Am I being thick: Betfair seem to have settled backing European Parliamentary Elections 2019 UK - European Elections 2019 / Change Party - Vote Percentage / 3.00-5.99% as a loss.
BBC seems to be reporting number of votes for Change party as 571,846 and total votes cast in UK as 17199701 which appears to me to be 3.3% so backing 3-5.99% should be a winning bet shouldn't it? Have I missed something?
> @nico67 said: > > @rottenborough said: > > https://twitter.com/mrjohnofarrell/status/1133353058279264259 > > Kate Hoey should be deselected not because she supports Brexit but because she’s willing to countenance a no deal and is happy to share a platform with the hate monger Farage . > > Any Labour MP who doesn’t vote to stop no deal should suffer the same fate .
On the same token so would any Tory MP who votes for EUref2 or revoke
> > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
>
> > >
>
> > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
>
> >
>
> > I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
>
>
>
> Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it?
I don't like the fact that you cannot easily see the thread header and I particularly don't like the way the comment are ordered old to new, meaning you have to page down to the end to see the most recent.
Well, OK, do you value your blockquotes over the ordered old to new business?
> Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs
>
> Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more.
Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA
You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it?
I assume this was noted this morning, but congrats to Theresa May for equalling Gordon Brown's tenure as PM today. 3 years is doable, but not guaranteed.
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850... > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please. > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting... ) > > > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
(* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)
> @Benpointer said: > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> @Benpointer said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850... > > > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please. > > > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting... ) > > > > > > > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President". > > Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections. > > (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)
This is me replying to you on the "normal" PB site....
> @Byronic said: > > @ah009 said: > > I think there is a perfectly coherent case to be made for the EU being an empire. As long as you start by utterly redefining what "empire" means. > > > > +++ > > See below. The EU elite have self defined themselves as ruling an "empire". So there ya go. > > Self definition is on trend, and on point. It's what you're meant to do. So, an empire it is. A loose kinda bureaucratic Austro-Hungarian empire, but an empire nonetheless. > > The parallels with Austro-Hungary are spookily deepy and profound. Not necessarily malign, or morally wrong, but officious, inept, sluggish, awkwardly lumped, unnatural, and sometimes powerful yet not quite the sum of its parts - it is all that. > >
Oh I read the below. And my post was the gentlest way I could find to express my bemusement. Now that I've read your list of adjectives I'm more amused than bemused. The highlight for me was "unnatural", as if any empire, state, city, street or even household can really be described as "natural".
> ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
>
> OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
>
> (Sorry, but it was too tempting... )
>
>
>
> Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
(* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)
...And this is me replying to you on vanillacommunity site.
It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Or if he starts talking about how all British Muslims should be deported to Saudi Arabia
According to Jonesey on sonar, SeanT makes a sudden change to Remain or Leave at random intervals. He calls it "Ker-razy Sean"...
> @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > > @rcs1000 said: > > > > > > > > @viewcode said: > > > > > > > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview... > > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it? > > > > > > Yes, everyone should use: > > > http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7642/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-the-campbell-expulsion-from-lab-the-ramifications-continue > > > > Tried it, but I don't like it. > > > > I don't like the fact that you cannot easily see the thread header and I particularly don't like the way the comment are ordered old to new, meaning you have to page down to the end to see the most recent. > > Well, OK, do you value your blockquotes over the ordered old to new business?
---------------
Since I'm choosing to post on PB.com what do you think?
In any event, even if I went over to Vanilla, I'm still going to suffer the unreadability of all the continuing PB.com posters' bloody >>>s.
> @kle4 said: > > @kle4 said: > > > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff > > > > > > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > Yeh right: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs > > > > > > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more. > > > > Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA > > You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it?
May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
> ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
>
> OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
>
> (Sorry, but it was too tempting... )
>
>
>
> Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
(* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)
...And this is me replying to you on vanillacommunity site.
Yeah, I know how it works Sunil - here's me proving I can use Vanilla.
I just prefer the new postings at the top of the list and I like to be able to read the thread header.
> @viewcode said: > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs. > > It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't. > > Or if he starts talking about how all British Muslims should be deported to Saudi Arabia > > According to Jonesey on sonar, SeanT makes a sudden change to Remain or Leave at random intervals. He calls it "Ker-razy Sean"...
I doubt SeanT now cares much either way, he is finally a fully paid up member of the top 1 percent club and can change his mind quite easily from whichever 5 star hotel or first class cabin or room of his Camden pad he happens to be residing in at the time safe in the knowledge whatever happens it will barely affect him a jot!
> @Benpointer said: > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850... > > > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please. > > > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting... ) > > > > > > > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President". > > Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections. > > (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)<
++++
The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century.
Essentially, England won the global culture wars in the crucial century 1750-1850, which is one reason why everyone resents us, even now.
May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
I know we will not agree on this matter, but I really still do not see why the pieces you linked to shows the mood has shifted. They, Nandy in particular, have made similar noises the entire time. It's not a shift to say compromise is needed or to be snide about the result in Islington. Lots of people have talked of compromise, but it is never quite enough even when there has been movement.
And with most of the Tory leadership candidates promising no deal or renegotiation what planet is May living on if she thinks she will be allowed to put forward the WA again, or that those candidates and their supporters would back it? All those revitalised no deal backers see their chance by voting for Raab, or Boris, or whoever, they aren't backing the WA now even if May did put it forward again.
> @HYUFD said: > > @Benpointer said: > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
> @houndtang said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @Benpointer said: > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
------------
"You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most"
We need another one right now. In reality they may already be lurking on the backbenches waiting for their moment.
I was looking at the Peterborough Labour party Facebook and was surprised they had Brexit party propaganda on it! I thought it was people voting LD that was the problem but it looks as though Peterborough Labour party has some traitors in the nest:
> @Byronic said: > > @Benpointer said: > > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850... > > > > > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please. > > > > > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President". > > > > Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections. > > > > (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)< > > ++++ > > The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century > > Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century. > > Essentially, England won the global culture wars in the crucial century 1750-1850, which is one reason why everyone resents us, even now.
Comments
> > @noneoftheabove said:
> > > @Sean_F said:
> > > > @TheScreamingEagles said:
> > > > This is why I really like Matt Hancock.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Matt Hancock has lambasted Conservative leadership rival Boris Johnson for his anti-business stance, arguing that the party should repair relations with corporate Britain, which has felt shunned by the May government.
> > > >
> > > > In a wide-ranging interview with the FT, the health secretary and leadership candidate set out his proposals to revitalise the economy, break the Brexit stalemate and rebuild relations with businesses.
> > > >
> > > > Acknowledging that the Tories had put too much distance between themselves and wealth creators, he referred to an infamous remark by Mr Johnson: “To the people who say ‘fuck business’, I say ‘fuck, fuck business’.”
> > > >
> > > > The former foreign secretary reportedly said “fuck business” last year in response to the fears of some business leaders that a hard Brexit would cause economic damage and disrupt trading relations. He has refused to deny making the remark, but his allies insist Mr Johnson has a record “of supporting businesses great and small”.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://www.ft.com/content/b18dd0c8-8151-11e9-9935-ad75bb96c849
> > >
> > > While that is so, big business needs to repair relations with its natural supporters.
> >
> > "Big business" has changed so much in the last 20 years, and does need reform.
> >
> > Executive pay is ludicrous, the idea that you need to pay £10m for a CEO because another firm does makes no sense. What is the realistic difference in ability between people willing to work for £1m or £10m? I would be pretty confident there is none, it will simply be candidates being in the right place at the right time.
> >
> > Companies with billions of profit, paying little tax and few employees is a relatively new concept, they need to be dealt with.
> >
> > But these are not the target of Boris' F-business, the companies who will be hit hardest by Brexit are those offering some of the best jobs available for median earners across the country. Those are the companies and people he could not care less about as long as he sits on the throne.
>
> Isn't it curious how globalisation has led to downward pressure on workers earnings but upward pressure on executive earnings.
It is not globalisation that has driven executive earnings upwards but a mix of greed, envy and lack of ethics and decency amongst company executives combined with shares being mostly held indirectly via pensions/funds whose directors are part of the same gravy train so do nothing to protect the underlying shareholders interests. It is an obvious case of the free market not working as intended and where the state should step in.
> > @Byronic said:
> > This feels calamitous for Labour. Civil war on social media. But then the Tories aren't doing much/any better. A plague on ALL their houses.
> >
> > fpt, I loved this from foxy
> >
> >
> > "The imminent collapse of the EU is such a perennial favourite, that it rivals the Punic wars for ubiquity, yet it goes from strength to strength. "
> >
> > The EU is going from strength to strength???
> >
> > lol. Let's break this down.
> >
> > Arguably its most symbolic and influential member - France - is roiled in endless civil conflict, often deeply violent. In another major nation, Italy, where the EU was founded (the Treaty of Rome) - an openly eurosceptic party is triumphant. Meanwhile, its largest Eastern European member, Poland, has now consistently elected europhobic governments.
> >
> > To cap it all off, perhaps its most globally significant member - the UK (if you add together soft power with hard power plus the English language) - is now actively leaving.
> >
> > Then there's the endless recession of Greece. The catastrophe of the euro. Hideously slow growth. The immigration crisis. Terrorism. On and on and on.
> >
> > And this political union, and would-be empire, is going from "strength to strength"???
> >
> > You fucking bawling idiot. I am a Remainer, because it is too economically damaging to Leave, but this is just the most rancid drivel. The EU is deeply, deeply troubled, and very possibly doomed.
> >
> > If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850, Rome around the 1st century AD, the USA from 1890-1950, or China about now. The EU is the Austro-Hungarian Empire in middle age, with a bit of the USSR in about 1970.
> >
> >
>
> The jaw-droppingly basic mistake you are making is to categorise the EU as an empire. <
++++
These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
"The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458
Case closed. Next.
> @Sean_F said:
> The culture of there being no penalty for failure, and boards ripping off employees, pensioners, customers, shareholders, or creditors has generated widespread disgust.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> What do you think an appropriate penalty for failure should be?
>
> I was thinking of some kind of ritual disemboweling, but am open to suggestions
How about getting dismissed without a f*cking great payoff?
> https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1133479539911385088
>
>
>
> My God, yes, I can see him in a Paisley shirt at the Underground Club.
I think Steve Richards got a whiff of the Afghan rug on the back wall.
> > @WhisperingOracle said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1133479539911385088
> >
> > Good analysis from Steve Richards. I think Rory is a candidate for the future, once the current type of populism has driven into the mud.<
>
> +++++
>
> That's actually very convincing from Rory. Contrast that with the dreadful video from Javid.
>
> Rory sounds genuine, convinced, and not scared to use the word "love". Which is brave. But it works. The opposite of wonkish wooden politics, or Corbynesque sloganising, while avoiding sentimentality.
>
> However I agree it is a bit too early for him (and he is too posh, Etonian and Remainery for the moment)
>
> I reckon the Tories' best bet is Gove, with Stewart as 2nd in command. A Brexiteer closely supported by a Remainer.
A bit motherhood and apple pie for me. I thought the citizens assembly was ridiculous - surely that is what parliament is for.
Conference will be a bloodbath this year.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > How can anyone not be able to load a dishwasher (assuming they are fit and able)?
>
> It is an art. The other members of my household have not quite perfected it.
>
The positioning of flippable plastic items, in particular, requires the sort of care and attention that Mrs Rata just does not appreciate.
Bad Al in his prime would have been proud of that move himself.
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1133484651039940608
These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
"The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458
Case closed. Next.
+++++++++++++++++
Emperor Juncker has quite a ring to it. You might be onto something.
> The idea that Scotland is, or will ever be, in any way different from England in terms of its notions of class, is one of the quainter delusions I've read here. But yes, the PB response to the online survey...
'In any way'
I see you must live a pretty cloistered existence, in a walled compound perhaps with Downton Abbey on 24/7.
I am glad she is alive, but really. Wow.
> > @StuartDickson said:
> > > @rottenborough said:
> > > How can anyone not be able to load a dishwasher (assuming they are fit and able)?
> >
> > It is an art. The other members of my household have not quite perfected it.
> >
>
> The positioning of flippable plastic items, in particular, requires the sort of care and attention that Mrs Rata just does not appreciate.
Finally! Somebody who understands.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > The SNP must be absolubtely cock a hoop about all this. The Brexit party pretty much cleaning up in England and Wales is catnip for them.
>
> The best bit is that this mess is *entirely* self-inflicted.
>
> Cameron wasn’t happy with simply firing a revolver at his foot. He thought it wise to release a whopping great nuclear dirty bomb right at the heart of the English body politic.
>
> You will be cleaning up your scarred nation for decades to come. We Scots are just looking on aghast. How, oh how, could you be so daft?
A question that will tax historians for centuries in the future. Possibly the most damaging political blunder since Charles I tried to rule without parliament.
(waits...)
> Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address?
>
> (waits...)
With great power etc. etc.
> Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?<
+++++
I. Am. Not. SeanT.
I have lurked. I know exactly who you mean. I liked his style. He was a Leaver. I am not.
I suggest you ask the PB moderators for confirmation. They know my email address and credentials.
(Sorry, but it was too tempting...
> > @Byronic said:
> > > @WhisperingOracle said:
> > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1133479539911385088
> > >
> > > Good analysis from Steve Richards. I think Rory is a candidate for the future, once the current type of populism has driven into the mud.<
> >
> > +++++
> >
> > That's actually very convincing from Rory. Contrast that with the dreadful video from Javid.
> >
> > Rory sounds genuine, convinced, and not scared to use the word "love". Which is brave. But it works. The opposite of wonkish wooden politics, or Corbynesque sloganising, while avoiding sentimentality.
> >
> > However I agree it is a bit too early for him (and he is too posh, Etonian and Remainery for the moment)
> >
> > I reckon the Tories' best bet is Gove, with Stewart as 2nd in command. A Brexiteer closely supported by a Remainer.
>
> A bit motherhood and apple pie for me. I thought the citizens assembly was ridiculous - surely that is what parliament is for.
Parliament is too partisan - there is clearly very little difference between what Nandy and May wanted on the WA yet neither can say so. A citizens assembly takes all that away, and would have the time to pressure the leavers to come up with the workable answers that are needed but easily evaded in short media interviews.
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @noneoftheabove said:
> > > > @Sean_F said:
> > > >
> > > > While that is so, big business needs to repair relations with its natural supporters.
> > >
> > > "Big business" has changed so much in the last 20 years, and does need reform.
> > >
> > > Executive pay is ludicrous, the idea that you need to pay £10m for a CEO because another firm does makes no sense. What is the realistic difference in ability between people willing to work for £1m or £10m? I would be pretty confident there is none, it will simply be candidates being in the right place at the right time.
> > >
> > > Companies with billions of profit, paying little tax and few employees is a relatively new concept, they need to be dealt with.
> > >
> > > But these are not the target of Boris' F-business, the companies who will be hit hardest by Brexit are those offering some of the best jobs available for median earners across the country. Those are the companies and people he could not care less about as long as he sits on the throne.
> >
> > Isn't it curious how globalisation has led to downward pressure on workers earnings but upward pressure on executive earnings.
>
> It is not globalisation that has driven executive earnings upwards but a mix of greed, envy and lack of ethics and decency amongst company executives combined with shares being mostly held indirectly via pensions/funds whose directors are part of the same gravy train so do nothing to protect the underlying shareholders interests. It is an obvious case of the free market not working as intended and where the state should step in.
Greed is the cause, globalisation is the excuse used to 'justify' it.
'We have to pay the going rate to compete with international businesses.'
I was being ironic / sarcastic in my earlier comment.
> > @rcs1000 said:
> > Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address?
> >
> > (waits...)
>
> With great power etc. etc.
Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area.
So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
> > @StuartDickson said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > The SNP must be absolubtely cock a hoop about all this. The Brexit party pretty much cleaning up in England and Wales is catnip for them.
> >
> > The best bit is that this mess is *entirely* self-inflicted.
> >
> > Cameron wasn’t happy with simply firing a revolver at his foot. He thought it wise to release a whopping great nuclear dirty bomb right at the heart of the English body politic.
> >
> > You will be cleaning up your scarred nation for decades to come. We Scots are just looking on aghast. How, oh how, could you be so daft?
>
> A question that will tax historians for centuries in the future. Possibly the most damaging political blunder since Charles I tried to rule without parliament.
Shhh... don’t give the dunderheids any ideas. Next they’ll be wanting to prorogue parliament. Oh, wait a minute...
> > @Benpointer said:
> > The jaw-droppingly basic mistake you are making is to categorise the EU as an empire. <
>
> ++++
>
> These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
>
> Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
>
> "The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
>
>
> https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458
>
> Case closed. Next.
----------------------
FFS! Was it too much for you to read beyond the headline of article you quoted?
Here, let me help you out:
<i>Mr Barroso said "We are a very special construction unique in the history of mankind,"
"Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire," he said.
He went on the clarify that instead of like super state empires of old, the EU empire is built on voluntary pooling of power and not on military conquest.
"What we have is the first non-imperial empire," said the centre-right Mr Barroso, who was formally Portugal's prime minister.
"We have 27 countries that fully decided to work together and to pool their sovereignty. I believe it is a great construction and we should be proud of it.</i>
https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1133297399026388992
> Yeh right:
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536
>
>
>
> I'm awfully confused, I feel like I've seen reports he has already in effect backed it about half a dozen times in the past month alone. I don't doubt it will eventually be undeniable, but really does it deserve fanfare when many of the party have claimed it is their policy for months anyway?
Labour will now close the stable door but the Lib Dems and Greens have already taken the horse.
> I don't load the dishwasher, I "do it wrong" apparently !
Cunningly 'doing it wrong', always a good one. 2 or 3 times is usually enough.
> > @Byronic said:
> > > @Benpointer said:
>
> > > The jaw-droppingly basic mistake you are making is to categorise the EU as an empire. <
> >
> > ++++
> >
> > These days we self-identify, do we not? Whatever we "feel" ourselves to be, that is what are - black, white, English, trans, etc. No? OK. So...
> >
> > Here is the actual president of the EU Commission, in 2007
> >
> > "The EU is not just any old international organisation, nor is it a superstate, but it might just be an "empire," according to European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso"
> >
> >
> > https://euobserver.com/institutional/24458
> >
> > Case closed. Next.
>
> ----------------------
>
> FFS! Was it too much for you to read beyond the headline of article you quoted?
>
> Here, let me help you out:
>
> <i>Mr Barroso said "We are a very special construction unique in the history of mankind,"
>
> "Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organisation of empire. We have the dimension of empire," he said.
>
> He went on the clarify that instead of like super state empires of old, the EU empire is built on voluntary pooling of power and not on military conquest.
>
> "What we have is the first non-imperial empire," said the centre-right Mr Barroso, who was formally Portugal's prime minister.
>
> "We have 27 countries that fully decided to work together and to pool their sovereignty. I believe it is a great construction and we should be proud of it.</i>
He might believe that rubbish, Others choose to see it differently.
> > @RobD said:
> > > @rcs1000 said:
> > > Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address?
> > >
> > > (waits...)
> >
> > With great power etc. etc.
>
> Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area.
>
> So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
How reliable are IP addresses? Here's me lying in bed in west Devon being told by whatismyip.com that I am in : London, ENG GB.
> Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
>
> It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
> > @viewcode said:
> > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
> >
> > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
>
> It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Or if he starts talking about how all British Muslims should be deported to Saudi Arabia
However, Labour members voting for our eco-socialist comrades and bedfellows should not.
(The above is not a serious representation of my views, but needs to be interpreted in the appropriate manner)
> > @rcs1000 said:
> > > @RobD said:
> > > > @rcs1000 said:
> > > > Who wants me to check Byronic's IP address?
> > > >
> > > > (waits...)
> > >
> > > With great power etc. etc.
> >
> > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area.
> >
> > So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
>
> How reliable are IP addresses? Here's me lying in bed in west Devon being told by whatismyip.com that I am in : London, ENG GB.
They're not perfect. But most people's home IP address remains the same for long periods. I know, therefore, the last time that a poster accessed the site, by looking at when that IP last loaded a page
In the case of SeanT, his IP address is still in use, because I see it come up in the logs. That makes me reasonably confident that Byronic is not him. (Simply, while it's possible that SeanT is technically sophisticated enough to use one IP for browsing and another for posting, it doesn't seem likely.)
"Gentlemen, you can't discuss the EU in here! This is the Brexit Room!"
> > @viewcode said:
> > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
> >
> > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
>
> It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Or how massive a royalty cheque has just arrived in the post from an overseas deal for literally doing bugger all...
> > @Luckyguy1983 said:
> > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?<
>
> +++++
>
> I. Am. Not. SeanT.
>
> I have lurked. I know exactly who you mean. I liked his style. He was a Leaver. I am not.
>
> I suggest you ask the PB moderators for confirmation. They know my email address and credentials.
He WAS a Leaver. Except on Wednesdays when he was rudely awakened by a hangover. And several other days, tbh.
He was a Brexit weathervane.
EDIT: Hang on, isn't the vane the fixed bit that reads N, E, S, W? He'd be the bit that moves.
> Unfortunately I think Rory The Tory is a case of wrong place, wrong time given the way the Tory membership is and the country at large.
I think if you want to see the Tories do well, 'unfortunately' is correct in this instance - he does seem a breath of fresh air but must have zero chance of winning the leadership race.
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > Unfortunately I think Rory The Tory is a case of wrong place, wrong time given the way the Tory membership is and the country at large.
>
> I think if you want to see the Tories do well, 'unfortunately' is correct in this instance - he does seem a breath of fresh air but must have zero chance of winning the leadership race.
I meant more for him on a personal level.
> Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
>
> Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
> Thankyou, Mister Smithson, junior
Well, at least he didn't give away your postcode, house number and mobile!
> Unfortunately I think Rory The Tory is a case of wrong place, wrong time given the way the Tory membership is and the country at large.
If I had a vote, he would be on my list of candidates seriously worth considering.
He comes over well, he is clearly thoughtful and speaks directly. You might hardly even notice he is a Tory...
> > @viewcode said:
> > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
> >
> > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
>
> I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it?
> ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
>
> OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
>
> (Sorry, but it was too tempting...
Bloody Americans. Why can’t they understand that they’re too wee, too poor and too stupid to govern themselves. Oh, wait a minute...
> > @viewcode said:
> > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
> >
> > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
>
> It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
It would be totally unlike SeanT to come on to PB with a new persona. That Gildas bloke for example, that definitely wasn't him.
http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7642/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-the-campbell-expulsion-from-lab-the-ramifications-continue
> Yeh right:
>
> https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536
Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs
> I think there is a perfectly coherent case to be made for the EU being an empire. As long as you start by utterly redefining what "empire" means.
>
Indeed. In the same way black can be defined as white.
> https://twitter.com/mrjohnofarrell/status/1133353058279264259
Kate Hoey should be deselected not because she supports Brexit but because she’s willing to countenance a no deal and is happy to share a platform with the hate monger Farage .
Any Labour MP who doesn’t vote to stop no deal should suffer the same fate .
Somehow the fools in Jezza's camp seem to have misunderstood Blair triangulation with just facing two ways at once.
> Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff
>
> Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said:
>
> > Yeh right:
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536
>
>
>
>
>
> Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs
>
> Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more.
Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA
> > @rcs1000 said:
>
> > > @viewcode said:
>
> > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
>
> > >
>
> > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
>
> >
>
> > I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
>
>
>
> Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it?
>
> Yes, everyone should use:
> http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7642/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-the-campbell-expulsion-from-lab-the-ramifications-continue
Tried it, but I don't like it.
I don't like the fact that you cannot easily see the thread header and I particularly don't like the way the comment are ordered old to new, meaning you have to page down to the end to see the most recent.
> I think there is a perfectly coherent case to be made for the EU being an empire. As long as you start by utterly redefining what "empire" means.
>
+++
See below. The EU elite have self defined themselves as ruling an "empire". So there ya go.
Self definition is on trend, and on point. It's what you're meant to do. So, an empire it is. A loose kinda bureaucratic Austro-Hungarian empire, but an empire nonetheless.
The parallels with Austro-Hungary are spookily deepy and profound. Not necessarily malign, or morally wrong, but officious, inept, sluggish, awkwardly lumped, unnatural, and sometimes powerful yet not quite the sum of its parts - it is all that.
BBC seems to be reporting number of votes for Change party as 571,846 and total votes cast in UK as 17199701 which appears to me to be 3.3% so backing 3-5.99% should be a winning bet shouldn't it? Have I missed something?
> > @rottenborough said:
> > https://twitter.com/mrjohnofarrell/status/1133353058279264259
>
> Kate Hoey should be deselected not because she supports Brexit but because she’s willing to countenance a no deal and is happy to share a platform with the hate monger Farage .
>
> Any Labour MP who doesn’t vote to stop no deal should suffer the same fate .
On the same token so would any Tory MP who votes for EUref2 or revoke
I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1133429609423364097
Tragic grandpa is on the way out - really doesn’t serve any purpose anymore.
What a shame.
> ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
>
> OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
>
> (Sorry, but it was too tempting...
>
>
>
> Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
(* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)
> Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
>
> I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> Meanwhile in Labour's conspiracy theorist heartland. Tell me how this is different to Farage spouting on about 'the elite'?
>
> https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1133429609423364097
DRAIN THE SWAMP...DRAIN THE SWAMP...
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
> > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
> >
> > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
> >
> > (Sorry, but it was too tempting...
> >
> >
> >
> > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
>
> Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
>
> (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)
This is me replying to you on the "normal" PB site....
> > @ah009 said:
> > I think there is a perfectly coherent case to be made for the EU being an empire. As long as you start by utterly redefining what "empire" means.
> >
>
> +++
>
> See below. The EU elite have self defined themselves as ruling an "empire". So there ya go.
>
> Self definition is on trend, and on point. It's what you're meant to do. So, an empire it is. A loose kinda bureaucratic Austro-Hungarian empire, but an empire nonetheless.
>
> The parallels with Austro-Hungary are spookily deepy and profound. Not necessarily malign, or morally wrong, but officious, inept, sluggish, awkwardly lumped, unnatural, and sometimes powerful yet not quite the sum of its parts - it is all that.
>
>
Oh I read the below. And my post was the gentlest way I could find to express my bemusement.
Now that I've read your list of adjectives I'm more amused than bemused. The highlight for me was "unnatural", as if any empire, state, city, street or even household can really be described as "natural".
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
>
> > > @rcs1000 said:
>
> >
>
> > > > @viewcode said:
>
> >
>
> > > > Byronic is not using SeanT's email address and his IP address is in West London. None of Byronic's previous IP address seem to be the same as Sean's, and all place him in the Richmond/Kew area. So I'm going to call "no" on him being SeanT for now.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Parenthetically, do I have the same IP from time to time? I live and work and visit many different places (hence my constant annoying "I am on a train" emails), and I don't know if I can be tracked. For the avoidance of doubt, I would prefer it if you did not disclose them please.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Brilliant! Any chance you could fix the PB.com blockquote problem while you're at it?
>
> >
>
> > Yes, everyone should use:
>
> > http://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7642/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-the-campbell-expulsion-from-lab-the-ramifications-continue
>
>
>
> Tried it, but I don't like it.
>
>
>
> I don't like the fact that you cannot easily see the thread header and I particularly don't like the way the comment are ordered old to new, meaning you have to page down to the end to see the most recent.
>
> Well, OK, do you value your blockquotes over the ordered old to new business?
---------------
Since I'm choosing to post on PB.com what do you think?
In any event, even if I went over to Vanilla, I'm still going to suffer the unreadability of all the continuing PB.com posters' bloody >>>s.
> > @kle4 said:
>
> > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff
>
> >
>
> > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said:
>
> >
>
> > > Yeh right:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs
>
> >
>
> > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more.
>
>
>
> Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA
>
> You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it?
This
https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132780249085882371?s=20
And this
https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1132760402264231936?s=20
And this
https://twitter.com/SKinnock/status/1132980977305829377?s=20
https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132772199004332032?s=20
shows the mood has shifted.
May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
I just prefer the new postings at the top of the list and I like to be able to read the thread header.
> It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
>
> It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
>
> Or if he starts talking about how all British Muslims should be deported to Saudi Arabia
>
> According to Jonesey on sonar, SeanT makes a sudden change to Remain or Leave at random intervals. He calls it "Ker-razy Sean"...
I doubt SeanT now cares much either way, he is finally a fully paid up member of the top 1 percent club and can change his mind quite easily from whichever 5 star hotel or first class cabin or room of his Camden pad he happens to be residing in at the time safe in the knowledge whatever happens it will barely affect him a jot!
> > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
> > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
> >
> > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
> >
> > (Sorry, but it was too tempting...
> >
> >
> >
> > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
>
> Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
>
> (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)<
++++
The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century.
Essentially, England won the global culture wars in the crucial century 1750-1850, which is one reason why everyone resents us, even now.
And with most of the Tory leadership candidates promising no deal or renegotiation what planet is May living on if she thinks she will be allowed to put forward the WA again, or that those candidates and their supporters would back it? All those revitalised no deal backers see their chance by voting for Raab, or Boris, or whoever, they aren't backing the WA now even if May did put it forward again.
> > @Benpointer said:
> > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> >
> > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
>
> Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Benpointer said:
> > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > >
> > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> >
> > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
>
> It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
------------
"You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most"
We need another one right now. In reality they may already be lurking on the backbenches waiting for their moment.
https://en-gb.facebook.com/pg/peterboroughlabourparty/posts/
> > @Benpointer said:
> > > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
> > > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
> > >
> > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
> > >
> > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
> >
> > Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
> >
> > (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)<
>
> ++++
>
> The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
>
> Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century.
>
> Essentially, England won the global culture wars in the crucial century 1750-1850, which is one reason why everyone resents us, even now.
You do sound like you might be SeanT's twin tbf