> @rcs1000 said: > > @viewcode said: > > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it? > > > > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs. > > It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Fair play to Byronic here. I'd be [delighted / horrified]* if someone with access only to occasional bursts of my shortform writing mistook me for [millionaire prizewinning wine, politics, travel & fiction author with dishy missus Sean T / cast-iron maniac and partially reformed Class A shitposter whose dishy missus left him Sean T]*
> @kle4 said: > I assume this was noted this morning, but congrats to Theresa May for equalling Gordon Brown's tenure as PM today. 3 years is doable, but not guaranteed.
Seneca:
"As is a tale, so is life: not how long it is, but how good it is, is what matters.”
> @kle4 said: > This And this > > shows the mood has shifted. > > > > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now > > I know we will not agree on this matter, but I really still do not see why the pieces you linked to shows the mood has shifted. They, Nandy in particular, have made similar noises the entire time. It's not a shift to say compromise is needed or to be snide about the result in Islington. Lots of people have talked of compromise, but it is never quite enough even when there has been movement. > > And with most of the Tory leadership candidates promising no deal or renegotiation what planet is May living on if she thinks she will be allowed to put forward the WA again, or that those candidates and their supporters would back it? All those revitalised no deal backers see their chance by voting for Raab, or Boris, or whoever, they aren't backing the WA now even if May did put it forward again.
None of that could equate to those Labour MPs from Leave seats seeing the Brexit Party sweep to victory in their constituencies on Sunday and staring down the barrel of an SNP 2015 style Tsunami if they do not deliver Brexit and humiliating defeat at the hands of Farage. If Labour moves to back EUref2 and abandons its previous position of just Deal plus CU they may feel they have nothing to lose by voting for the Deal.
Only about 20 Tory MPs are diehard No Deal backers, 286 MPs voted for the WA and if the EU persists as it has today with saying there will be no renegotiation then 40 Labour MPs from Leave seats added to that 286 would give it a majority of 326 votes
The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
The recovery wasn't automatic, and could quite easily have gone the other way. The Civil Service was traumatised by the loss of the Thirteen Colonies. It eventually hit on the Dominion concept: create enormous tracts of land, weld them together, offer them limited self-government but imperial Governors and armed forces. That's why it's the British Army, not the Army of the United Kingdom: tribe, not state. That's why Canada and Australia are so big. It worked so well, if the UK had avoided participation in WWI and extended Dominionship to Ireland and India it could have lasted to this day.
Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century.
Um, that's silly. If Napoleon hadn't sold about a third of the continent to the US, the USA would be an East Coast phenomenon sharing the continent with France, Spain/Mexico and an independent Texas
> @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > McMomentum strikes back. > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984 > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends. > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
> @rottenborough said: > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > > McMomentum strikes back. > > > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984 > > > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends. > > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs. > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
> @houndtang said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @Benpointer said: > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc.
Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc
> @HYUFD said: > > @kle4 said: > > > @kle4 said: > > > > > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff > > > > > > > > > > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > > > > > Yeh right: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs > > > > > > > > > > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more. > > > > > > > > Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA > > > > You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it? > > This > https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132780249085882371?s=20 > > And this > https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1132760402264231936?s=20 > > And this > > https://twitter.com/SKinnock/status/1132980977305829377?s=20 > > https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132772199004332032?s=20 > > > shows the mood has shifted. > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left.
If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
> @Byronic said: > > @Benpointer said: > > > @Sunil_Prasannan said: > > > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850... > > > > > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please. > > > > > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting... ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President". > > > > Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections. > > > > (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)< > > ++++ > > The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century > > Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century. > > Essentially, England won the global culture wars in the crucial century 1750-1850, which is one reason why everyone resents us, even now.
Meanwhile in Europe, first the French and then the Germans had a go at a lasting empire nearer home, and now there's the EU where the French finally settled for the inevitable second place on that stage. What's the UK's position in Europe?
Simplistic? True Still begs the question which nobody asks. The best I've heard Remoaners offer is "partnership". Not a description I, nor many others, seem to subscribe to.
> I assume this was noted this morning, but congrats to Theresa May for equalling Gordon Brown's tenure as PM today. 3 years is doable, but not guaranteed.
Seneca:
"As is a tale, so is life: not how long it is, but how good it is, is what matters.”
Certainly, but good has gone in this case, length is all she has got.
> @viewcode said: > The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century > > The recovery wasn't automatic, and could quite easily have gone the other way. The Civil Service was traumatised by the loss of the Thirteen Colonies. It eventually hit on the Dominion concept: create enormous tracts of land, weld them together, offer them limited self-government but imperial Governors and armed forces. That's why it's the British Army, not the Army of the United Kingdom: tribe, not state. That's why Canada and Australia are so big. It worked so well, if the UK had avoided participation in WWI and extended Dominionship to Ireland and India it could have lasted to this day. Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century. > > Um, that's silly. If Napoleon hadn't sold about a third of the continent to the US, the USA would be an East Coast phenomenon sharing the continent with France, Spain/Mexico and an independent Texas<
++++
That's very true. The Louisiana purchase was arguably the greatest mistake made by any European power in the Age of Empire - worse than the Brits losing the States. And it undermines any argument that claims Napoleon was some great strategist. If his strategy was to extend "French-ness" to the world (which it should have been), then he would have held on to French America and the internet might now be half French speaking, and likewise the world.
But he didn't. Et voila. Napoleon was a great general, but a terrible statesman.
> @viewcode said: > The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century > > The recovery wasn't automatic, and could quite easily have gone the other way. The Civil Service was traumatised by the loss of the Thirteen Colonies. It eventually hit on the Dominion concept: create enormous tracts of land, weld them together, offer them limited self-government but imperial Governors and armed forces. That's why it's the British Army, not the Army of the United Kingdom: tribe, not state. That's why Canada and Australia are so big. It worked so well, if the UK had avoided participation in WWI and extended Dominionship to Ireland and India it could have lasted to this day. ***** Not to this day; the idea of self-governance was an idea that was coming. The age of Dominionships was at an end.
Already before WWI neither Canada nor Australia were Dominions anymore.
> I assume this was noted this morning, but congrats to Theresa May for equalling Gordon Brown's tenure as PM today. 3 years is doable, but not guaranteed.
Seneca:
"As is a tale, so is life: not how long it is, but how good it is, is what matters.”
Certainly, but good has gone in this case, length is all she has got.
The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
The recovery wasn't automatic, and could quite easily have gone the other way. The Civil Service was traumatised by the loss of the Thirteen Colonies. It eventually hit on the Dominion concept: create enormous tracts of land, weld them together, offer them limited self-government but imperial Governors and armed forces. That's why it's the British Army, not the Army of the United Kingdom: tribe, not state. That's why Canada and Australia are so big. It worked so well, if the UK had avoided participation in WWI and extended Dominionship to Ireland and India it could have lasted to this day.
> @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > @rottenborough said: > > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > > > McMomentum strikes back. > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984 > > > > > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends. > > > > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs. > > > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles? > > Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support.
His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial
> @Philip_Thompson said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @kle4 said: > > > > @kle4 said: > > > > > > > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeh right: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA > > > > > > You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it? > > > > This > > https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132780249085882371?s=20 > > > > And this > > https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1132760402264231936?s=20 > > > > And this > > > > https://twitter.com/SKinnock/status/1132980977305829377?s=20 > > > > https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132772199004332032?s=20 > > > > > > shows the mood has shifted. > > > > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now > > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left. > > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
> @Benpointer said: > > @houndtang said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission.... > > ------------ > > "You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most" > > We need another one right now. In reality they may already be lurking on the backbenches waiting for their moment.
> @HYUFD said: > > @houndtang said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission.... > > There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc. > > > Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc >
Yet the surprise was that on meeting Maggie, she was quite small.
> @HYUFD said: > > @houndtang said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission.... > > There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc. > > > Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc >
With the possible exception of Clarke I wouldn't say any of them were heavyweights. I wonder if people in general are of lower calibre - where are the great artists, novelists, architects etc
Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
But many are now setting out their stall as requiring a renegotiation. Given Brexit approach is the main part of each person's leadership pitch it would be the height of ridiculousness to vote through a different approach. The situation has changed, they have moved on, dreaming of the WA at least for several months does not help, no matter how many mythical 50 Lab MPs will rescue it. (notably most of those Lab MPs who get quoted are the handful who have already voted for the WA, and the one's whose logic suggests they should but never do, so again no grand change).
Its a peculiar way of showing the map without the non-EU countries, it just looks weird - why not show the non-EU ones in outline or something? That way you can also envisage future 'conquests' easily, so to speak. And it doesnt' look like there has been a mass flood in the Balkans and in the Uk and Norway.
> @houndtang said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @houndtang said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > > > > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission.... > > > > There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc. > > > > > > Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc > > > > With the possible exception of Clarke I wouldn't say any of them were heavyweights. I wonder if people in general are of lower calibre - where are the great artists, novelists, architects etc
On reflection, it is utter nonsense to claim that Corbyn's team have effectively managed the media by managing use the Campbell expulsion to distract from the statutory anti-semitism inquiry. (That's even assuming that it was planned as such, which it probably wasn't, and that the distraction was particulary effective, which it also wasn't.)
The news of a new statutory inquiry into Labour anti-semitism is at this stage of very little immediate political consequence (although its eventual findings might be more serious in due course). Apart from the far left, most who care already take it as a given that under Corbyn Labour has become institutionally anti-semitic and this is no more than a final nail in a well nailed down coffin. It's a bit like announcing a statutory inquiry into whether the Pope is a Catholic. The announcement of an inquiry can't change much just yet.
On the other hand, the Campbell story has the potential to run and run as a series of further expulsions as further Labour figures declare that they deserted the party on Thursday. It is totemic in that a large number of Labour voters also deserted the party on Thursday and it encourages them in the belief that Corbyn really doesn't want them back. Leaving aside Brexit, it also confirms that Corbyn is taking the opportunity to eagerly purge the party of those on the moderate left who have stuck with Labour even up to now, so those in the wider electorate who likewise did so may take this as the final straw. Further Labour MPs may in the face of these expulsions be prompted to jump ship into the LDs just as they look poised to gobble up the CHUK MPs as well, adding to the momentum of the political realignment that appears under way. And finally it threatens to overshadow and nullify Corbyn's efforts to finally come off the fence and necessarily change his stance on a future referendum in order to appeal to those same Labour Remainers who switched to LD last week.
> @HYUFD said: > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now > > > > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left. > > > > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it. > > Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel. > > They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
> @kle4 said: > Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel. > > > > They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it > > But many are now setting out their stall as requiring a renegotiation. Given Brexit approach is the main part of each person's leadership pitch it would be the height of ridiculousness to vote through a different approach. The situation has changed, they have moved on, dreaming of the WA at least for several months does not help, no matter how many mythical 50 Lab MPs will rescue it. (notably most of those Lab MPs who get quoted are the handful who have already voted for the WA, and the one's whose logic suggests they should but never do, so again no grand change).
Juncker etc made clear there would be no renegotiation today, unless that changes in the next few months then the choice remains WA or No Deal or EUref2 or revoke.
Kinnock and Nandy did not vote for the WA before, they may yet do so if Labour policy becomes EUref2.
> @houndtang said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @houndtang said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > @Benpointer said: > > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher. > > > > > > > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid. > > > > > > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most > > > > > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission.... > > > > There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc. > > > > > > Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc > > > > With the possible exception of Clarke I wouldn't say any of them were heavyweights. I wonder if people in general are of lower calibre - where are the great artists, novelists, architects etc
I reckon Cyril Smith could be described as heavyweight.
Just realised I've been making an elementary mistake with my Tory leadership numbers: I haven't been including the candidate themselves as one of their own supporters. So in fact 120 Conservative MPs have declared a preference.
> @Philip_Thompson said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now > > > > > > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left. > > > > > > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it. > > > > Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel. > > > > They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it > > They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
Hunt, Gove, Javid, Hancock probably would. Even Boris might, it would get him out of the hole of the risk of No Deal and then he could promise a brilliant FTA future relationship without any risk of No Deal
1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday. 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you.
> @Drutt said: > 1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday. > 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain > 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you. > > That is all. Goodnight
Pakistan lost to Afghanistan the other day. Must be a bit disappointing if England aren't favourites for the match.
> @AndyJS said: > I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader.
Not going to happen. Her arrest saw to that - for now at least (if not forever - which would be my preference - she is a bandwagon-jumper, not a leader)
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @AndyJS said: > > I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader. > > Not going to happen. Her arrest saw to that - for now at least (if not forever - which would be my preference - she is a bandwagon-jumper, not a leader)
Just being arrested shouldn't be a reason someone can't be leader. How silly. Another possible candidate is Ed Davey.
> @AndyJS said: > > @oxfordsimon said: > > > @AndyJS said: > > > I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader. > > > > Not going to happen. Her arrest saw to that - for now at least (if not forever - which would be my preference - she is a bandwagon-jumper, not a leader) > > Just being arrested shouldn't be a reason someone can't be leader. How silly. Another possible candidate is Ed Davey.
She was arrested for assaulting her partner - even though it didn't result in a prosecution, the assault still happened.
If this had been known at the time of the last GE there is every possibility she would have not gained the seat.
As far as I am concerned, domestic violence (whether prosecuted or not) is a something that is never acceptable.
> @AndyJS said: > > @Drutt said: > > 1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday. > > 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain > > 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you. > > > > That is all. Goodnight > > Pakistan lost to Afghanistan the other day. Must be a bit disappointing if England aren't favourites for the match.
England very long odds indeed to win that match, as it's between the Windies and Pakistan.
> @Drutt said: > > @AndyJS said: > > > @Drutt said: > > > 1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday. > > > 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain > > > 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you. > > > > > > That is all. Goodnight > > > > Pakistan lost to Afghanistan the other day. Must be a bit disappointing if England aren't favourites for the match. > > England very long odds indeed to win that match, as it's between the Windies and Pakistan.
...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
(Sorry, but it was too tempting... )
You’re thinking of Empire 1.0
Byronic is clearly referring to Empire 2.0
I’m just wondering if the post-Brexit vision is XP or Vista?
> @Philip_Thompson said: > They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
"I voted against it before and after I voted for it"
> @AndyJS said: > 107 Tory MPs have declared so far according to Guido's list. > > Does anyone know whether the MP for Brecon & Radnor will be eligible to vote in the ballots?
> @MikeSmithson said: > > @AndyJS said: > > 107 Tory MPs have declared so far according to Guido's list. > > > > Does anyone know whether the MP for Brecon & Radnor will be eligible to vote in the ballots? > > I think that he is still a conservative MP
> @AndyJS said: > I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader.
I thought so, but came to realise that it was because I wanted it to be so. She is a fresh, passionate and engaging politician, but very new, and still on a steep learning curve. Her enthusiasm leads her to say things spontaneously that sometimes aren’t that wise; good judgement is an essential quality for a leader and she has some work to do.
Which does leave the LDs with a very limited field, but probably not as bad as you’d get if you selected at random the same small number of Tory or Labour MPs and then had to pick a leader from among them.
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > > > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > > > > McMomentum strikes back. > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984 > > > > > > > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends. > > > > > > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs. > > > > > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles? > > > > Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed. > > But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support. > > His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial
Leonard is currently my favourite politician. But I’m keeping an eye on Gove. Sometimes dreams really do come true.
> @HYUFD said: > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now > > > > > > > > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left. > > > > > > > > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it. > > > > > > Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel. > > > > > > They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it > > > > They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign. > > Hunt, Gove, Javid, Hancock probably would. Even Boris might, it would get him out of the hole of the risk of No Deal and then he could promise a brilliant FTA future relationship without any risk of No Deal
Do you ever stop to think about the crackpot nonsense you post on here?
> @StuartDickson said: > > @oxfordsimon said: > > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said: > > > > > > @Theuniondivvie said: > > > > > > McMomentum strikes back. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984 > > > > > > > > > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends. > > > > > > > > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs. > > > > > > > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles? > > > > > > Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed. > > > > But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support. > > > > His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial > > Leonard is currently my favourite politician. But I’m keeping an eye on Gove. Sometimes dreams really do come true.
At least one of the supporters was smart enough to remind people what he actually looks like. I doubt 5% of Scots know.
> @IanB2 said:. > > I thought so, but came to realise that it was because I wanted it to be so. She is a fresh, passionate and engaging politician, but very new, and still on a steep learning curve. Her enthusiasm leads her to say things spontaneously that sometimes aren’t that wise; good judgement is an essential quality for a leader and she has some work to do. > > Which does leave the LDs with a very limited field, but probably not as bad as you’d get if you selected at random the same small number of Tory or Labour MPs and then had to pick a leader from among them.
-------------
I agree.
Dan Snow's Piece of Fake News -- when he said he got a piece of Brexit Party literature included with his ballot paper from the Council -- took her in completely (as well as Jolyon & Carole & pb.com's finest Remainers).
Dan Snow later retracted, eating a big helping of Crow Pie.
Even without the slap, Layla is a gamble. Maybe in 5 to 10 years.
> @YBarddCwsc said: > > @IanB2 said:. > > > > I thought so, but came to realise that it was because I wanted it to be so. She is a fresh, passionate and engaging politician, but very new, and still on a steep learning curve. Her enthusiasm leads her to say things spontaneously that sometimes aren’t that wise; good judgement is an essential quality for a leader and she has some work to do. > > > > Which does leave the LDs with a very limited field, but probably not as bad as you’d get if you selected at random the same small number of Tory or Labour MPs and then had to pick a leader from among them. > > ------------- > > I agree. > > Dan Snow's Piece of Fake News -- when he said he got a piece of Brexit Party literature included with his ballot paper from the Council -- took her in completely (as well as Jolyon & Carole & pb.com's finest Remainers). > > Dan Snow later retracted, eating a big helping of Crow Pie. > > Even without the slap, Layla is a gamble. Maybe in 5 to 10 years.
For an intelligent man, Dan S does say some strange things. Probably wise not to accept what he says unless he's working to a script. And, on topic, think I'd prefer Ms M to have another year or three before becoming Leader. What are Christine Jardine's chances? Didn't I read that her hat was in the ring? Seems like a mature, sensible, person.
> @Foxy said: > > @Scott_P said: > > https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1133606048080781313 > > I wouldn't play Hancock and McVey as fullbacks, both too lightweight. Javid is too immobile for midfield. > > I would suggest that 343 is a better formation. > > Baker in goal, nothing gets through. > > Javid, Raab, Cleverley as Centrebacks, not too many gaffes. > > Gove as DM, a fierce tackler, with Malthouse and Hunt (c) providing midfield stability. > > Upfront Boris as striker, with McVey on the right wing and Stewart on the Left. > > As a mother, Leadsome would be best suited as manager. > > > > > >
Especially if she is indulging in the occasional "e".
The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
> Interesting how both UK Con & Lab were significant (worse) outliers in the general European wide trend of punishing established parties in the Euros:
The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
> > > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
> > > >
> > > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
> > >
> > > Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
> >
> > But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support.
> >
> > His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial
>
> Leonard is currently my favourite politician. But I’m keeping an eye on Gove. Sometimes dreams really do come true.
At least one of the supporters was smart enough to remind people what he actually looks like. I doubt 5% of Scots know.
SLAB reminds me of UKIP, with its serial leaders each only briefly in post and vanishing afterwards. Each of lower stature than the predecessor, certain to be wound up as a going concern shortly.
> @Casino_Royale said: > The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum. > > https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/there-s-no-avoiding-election-or-a-second-vote-8rqn087zt > > It will be a second referendum. > > Things have changed and a General Election, now, threatens survival of the Conservative Party, and decimation of a variety of Labour constituencies. > > It’s likely the new Parliament would be even more divided and factional than this one, totally hung, if such a thing is imaginable.
I increasingly think a second referendum, narrow vote to remain, followed a couple of years later by a Brexit party majority and a disorderly no deal Brexit, quite possibly rejoining five years later is the most likely outcome now. A dialectic process. Testing both polar extremes to destruction before returning to some kind of consensus.
The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
> @Casino_Royale said: > The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum. > > https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/there-s-no-avoiding-election-or-a-second-vote-8rqn087zt > > It will be a second referendum. > > Things have changed and a General Election, now, threatens survival of the Conservative Party, and decimation of a variety of Labour constituencies. > > It’s likely the new Parliament would be even more divided and factional than this one, totally hung, if such a thing is imaginable.
Which only leaves open 2 issues:-
1) We don't have time for a referendum to be prepared and completed before the end of September / early October (so it would need an extension); Especially as it can only be called by whoever becomes leader in late July 2) some Tory candidates are already committed to leaving on October 31st. I suspect they can't backtrack from that position and win an election. And it would be hard to backtrack in July to get things done.
So while a referendum is the answer I suspect we are going to get a General Election first as that's the only option available in the time available.
A root and branch review of all its processes would have been a very sensible thing to do, three or six months ago - especially if they wanted to add pressure onto Labour. It's probably a bit late now.
The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
Things have changed and a General Election, now, threatens survival of the Conservative Party, and decimation of a variety of Labour constituencies.
It’s likely the new Parliament would be even more divided and factional than this one, totally hung, if such a thing is imaginable.
It’s hardly a foregone conclusion. The next Tory PM will, in all likelihood, attempt to engineer a no deal Brexit, an attempt which could end in several ways including a general election. And who knows what Parliament might result ? It would almost certainly be more polarised on Brexit, with an increase in both no dealers and revokers, and I wouldn’t like to begin to guess the Parliamentary numbers. FPTP could throw up some very strange results.
Comments
> McMomentum strikes back.
>
> https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
>
> For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
> > @viewcode said:
> > Why has SeanT changed his name, or are we not meant to mention it?
> >
> > It has been remarked that @Byronic has a similar writing style to @SeanT, but I am given to understand that he has denied being the same person. Plus he parts his hair on the different side and wears large glasses, so deffo not the same, obvs.
>
> It's very simple, if Byronic starts talking about his 16 year old wife, and how much sex he's getting, then he's SeanT. If he is quiet about his conquests (or lack thereof) then he isn't.
Fair play to Byronic here. I'd be [delighted / horrified]* if someone with access only to occasional bursts of my shortform writing mistook me for [millionaire prizewinning wine, politics, travel & fiction author with dishy missus Sean T / cast-iron maniac and partially reformed Class A shitposter whose dishy missus left him Sean T]*
* delete as appropriate, either way round.
> I assume this was noted this morning, but congrats to Theresa May for equalling Gordon Brown's tenure as PM today. 3 years is doable, but not guaranteed.
Seneca:
"As is a tale, so is life: not how long it is, but how good it is, is what matters.”
> This And this
>
> shows the mood has shifted.
>
>
>
>
>
> May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
>
> I know we will not agree on this matter, but I really still do not see why the pieces you linked to shows the mood has shifted. They, Nandy in particular, have made similar noises the entire time. It's not a shift to say compromise is needed or to be snide about the result in Islington. Lots of people have talked of compromise, but it is never quite enough even when there has been movement.
>
> And with most of the Tory leadership candidates promising no deal or renegotiation what planet is May living on if she thinks she will be allowed to put forward the WA again, or that those candidates and their supporters would back it? All those revitalised no deal backers see their chance by voting for Raab, or Boris, or whoever, they aren't backing the WA now even if May did put it forward again.
None of that could equate to those Labour MPs from Leave seats seeing the Brexit Party sweep to victory in their constituencies on Sunday and staring down the barrel of an SNP 2015 style Tsunami if they do not deliver Brexit and humiliating defeat at the hands of Farage. If Labour moves to back EUref2 and abandons its previous position of just Deal plus CU they may feel they have nothing to lose by voting for the Deal.
Only about 20 Tory MPs are diehard No Deal backers, 286 MPs voted for the WA and if the EU persists as it has today with saying there will be no renegotiation then 40 Labour MPs from Leave seats added to that 286 would give it a majority of 326 votes
> > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > McMomentum strikes back.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
> >
> > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
>
> Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
> > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > > McMomentum strikes back.
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
> > >
> > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
> >
> > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
>
> Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1133339190370996224
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Benpointer said:
> > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > >
> > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> >
> > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
>
> It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc.
Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc
> > @kle4 said:
> > > @kle4 said:
> >
> > > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Yeh right:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more.
> >
> >
> >
> > Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA
> >
> > You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it?
>
> This
> https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132780249085882371?s=20
>
> And this
> https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1132760402264231936?s=20
>
> And this
>
> https://twitter.com/SKinnock/status/1132980977305829377?s=20
>
> https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132772199004332032?s=20
>
>
> shows the mood has shifted.
>
>
> May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left.
If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
> > @Benpointer said:
> > > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
> > > ...If you want to see an empire going from strength to strength, I suggest Britain 1750-1850...
> > >
> > > OK, does anybody want to point out something that happened to the British Empire between 1750 to 1850? Anybody? Something involving some kind of Continental Congress, the odd revolution? Answers before the fourth of July, please.
> > >
> > > (Sorry, but it was too tempting...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Conflict could easily have been avoided by giving the Colonists representation in Parliament in return for them continuing to recognise King George as their, er, "President".
> >
> > Nah... Nigel Farage would have popped up in Boston to lead a new Amexit Party to victory* in the ensuing elections.
> >
> > (* Winning the votes of 11.2% of the Colonists' electorate.)<
>
> ++++
>
> The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
>
> Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century.
>
> Essentially, England won the global culture wars in the crucial century 1750-1850, which is one reason why everyone resents us, even now.
Meanwhile in Europe, first the French and then the Germans had a go at a lasting empire nearer home, and now there's the EU where the French finally settled for the inevitable second place on that stage. What's the UK's position in Europe?
Simplistic? True Still begs the question which nobody asks. The best I've heard Remoaners offer is "partnership". Not a description I, nor many others, seem to subscribe to.
> The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
>
> The recovery wasn't automatic, and could quite easily have gone the other way. The Civil Service was traumatised by the loss of the Thirteen Colonies. It eventually hit on the Dominion concept: create enormous tracts of land, weld them together, offer them limited self-government but imperial Governors and armed forces. That's why it's the British Army, not the Army of the United Kingdom: tribe, not state. That's why Canada and Australia are so big. It worked so well, if the UK had avoided participation in WWI and extended Dominionship to Ireland and India it could have lasted to this day. Plus, by sowing the seeds of Englishness in America, by 1750, it had guaranteed that the NEXT superpower would be English speaking, and a natural ally (after a couple of small wars). This in turn guaranteed that the world would speak English in the 21st century.
>
> Um, that's silly. If Napoleon hadn't sold about a third of the continent to the US, the USA would be an East Coast phenomenon sharing the continent with France, Spain/Mexico and an independent Texas<
++++
That's very true. The Louisiana purchase was arguably the greatest mistake made by any European power in the Age of Empire - worse than the Brits losing the States. And it undermines any argument that claims Napoleon was some great strategist. If his strategy was to extend "French-ness" to the world (which it should have been), then he would have held on to French America and the internet might now be half French speaking, and likewise the world.
But he didn't. Et voila. Napoleon was a great general, but a terrible statesman.
> The loss of the American colonies was a huge blow to the British empire, yet it recovered quite quickly and was considerably bigger by the late 19th century than it was in the late 18th century
>
> The recovery wasn't automatic, and could quite easily have gone the other way. The Civil Service was traumatised by the loss of the Thirteen Colonies. It eventually hit on the Dominion concept: create enormous tracts of land, weld them together, offer them limited self-government but imperial Governors and armed forces. That's why it's the British Army, not the Army of the United Kingdom: tribe, not state. That's why Canada and Australia are so big. It worked so well, if the UK had avoided participation in WWI and extended Dominionship to Ireland and India it could have lasted to this day.
*****
Not to this day; the idea of self-governance was an idea that was coming. The age of Dominionships was at an end.
Already before WWI neither Canada nor Australia were Dominions anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sunil060902/sandbox
'Jesse Norman: Conservatism, the party leadership, and the future of our country. Why I am considering standing.'
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/05/conservatism-the-party-leadership-and-the-future-of-our-country-why-i-am-considering-standing.html
> Here comes another one
>
> 'Jesse Norman: Conservatism, the party leadership, and the future of our country. Why I am considering standing.'
>
> https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/05/conservatism-the-party-leadership-and-the-future-of-our-country-why-i-am-considering-standing.html
>
>
>
It's looking very male-dominated at the moment, the Tories need some more female candidates.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > > > McMomentum strikes back.
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
> > > >
> > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
> > >
> > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
> >
> > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
>
> Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support.
His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @kle4 said:
> > > > @kle4 said:
> > >
> > > > Let's hope the USA invades Iran and starts WW3, so we can forget all about this Brexit stuff
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Can it be next week? > @rottenborough said:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > Yeh right:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1133485051503681536
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Cue revolt from northern and midlands Labour MPs
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Cue moaning from northern and midlands Labour MPs, and nothing more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Once the Brexit Party gain Peterborough from Labour in 2 weeks I suspect those Labour MPs will be in open revolt in panic about losing their seats and will refuse to vote for EUref2, indeed it may be the final kick they need to vote for the WA
> > >
> > > You've long predicted it, I don't see why that additional panic is needed if everything up until now has not shifted them. Or which candidate will reintroduce the WA - yes, I know a few are seeking renegotiation and a few may even have spoken against no deal, but really, they would bring back the WA unamended or with revised PD again? And all the no deal backers in the leadership contest would back it?
> >
> > This
> > https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132780249085882371?s=20
> >
> > And this
> > https://twitter.com/CarolineFlintMP/status/1132760402264231936?s=20
> >
> > And this
> >
> > https://twitter.com/SKinnock/status/1132980977305829377?s=20
> >
> > https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1132772199004332032?s=20
> >
> >
> > shows the mood has shifted.
> >
> >
> > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
>
> Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left.
>
> If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
> > @houndtang said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > > >
> > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> > >
> > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> >
> > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
>
> ------------
>
> "You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most"
>
> We need another one right now. In reality they may already be lurking on the backbenches waiting for their moment.
Michael Fabricant, your moment awaits....
> > @houndtang said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > > >
> > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> > >
> > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> >
> > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
>
> There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc.
>
>
> Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc
>
Yet the surprise was that on meeting Maggie, she was quite small.
> > @houndtang said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > > >
> > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> > >
> > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> >
> > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
>
> There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc.
>
>
> Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc
>
With the possible exception of Clarke I wouldn't say any of them were heavyweights. I wonder if people in general are of lower calibre - where are the great artists, novelists, architects etc
Midlands North West Euro constituency
3 still to be elected
Flanagan (Ind) 94,353
Carthy (SF) 83,851
Walsh (FG) 76,056
Casey (Ind) 64,690
McHugh (Green) 60,778
Smith ((FF)) 46,820
Rabbitte (FF) 34,610 ELIMINATED
South constituency is even more behind
https://twitter.com/Parlimag/status/1133397822185922561
> They already cancelled UK
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7qi9JzWwAAt7ln.jpg:large
Looks a bit Stalin-esque.
Does anyone know whether the MP for Brecon & Radnor will be eligible to vote in the ballots?
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @houndtang said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> > > >
> > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> > >
> > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
> >
> > There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc.
> >
> >
> > Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc
> >
>
> With the possible exception of Clarke I wouldn't say any of them were heavyweights. I wonder if people in general are of lower calibre - where are the great artists, novelists, architects etc
On social media
The news of a new statutory inquiry into Labour anti-semitism is at this stage of very little immediate political consequence (although its eventual findings might be more serious in due course). Apart from the far left, most who care already take it as a given that under Corbyn Labour has become institutionally anti-semitic and this is no more than a final nail in a well nailed down coffin. It's a bit like announcing a statutory inquiry into whether the Pope is a Catholic. The announcement of an inquiry can't change much just yet.
On the other hand, the Campbell story has the potential to run and run as a series of further expulsions as further Labour figures declare that they deserted the party on Thursday. It is totemic in that a large number of Labour voters also deserted the party on Thursday and it encourages them in the belief that Corbyn really doesn't want them back. Leaving aside Brexit, it also confirms that Corbyn is taking the opportunity to eagerly purge the party of those on the moderate left who have stuck with Labour even up to now, so those in the wider electorate who likewise did so may take this as the final straw. Further Labour MPs may in the face of these expulsions be prompted to jump ship into the LDs just as they look poised to gobble up the CHUK MPs as well, adding to the momentum of the political realignment that appears under way. And finally it threatens to overshadow and nullify Corbyn's efforts to finally come off the fence and necessarily change his stance on a future referendum in order to appeal to those same Labour Remainers who switched to LD last week.
> > @Philip_Thompson said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
> >
> > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left.
> >
> > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
>
> Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
>
> They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
> Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
>
>
>
> They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
>
> But many are now setting out their stall as requiring a renegotiation. Given Brexit approach is the main part of each person's leadership pitch it would be the height of ridiculousness to vote through a different approach. The situation has changed, they have moved on, dreaming of the WA at least for several months does not help, no matter how many mythical 50 Lab MPs will rescue it. (notably most of those Lab MPs who get quoted are the handful who have already voted for the WA, and the one's whose logic suggests they should but never do, so again no grand change).
Juncker etc made clear there would be no renegotiation today, unless that changes in the next few months then the choice remains WA or No Deal or EUref2 or revoke.
Kinnock and Nandy did not vote for the WA before, they may yet do so if Labour policy becomes EUref2.
>
> I can email you a complete list of your IPs over the last year if you like. I can even scrape the logs for every single pageview...
If you have the logs from, say, mid-2010, then can you check how many ordinary pb contributors suddenly upped sticks to London? #TorySpadAstroturfers
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @houndtang said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > @Benpointer said:
> > > > > Off topic: Really enjoying the BBC documentary series on Thatcher.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not a fan - far from it - but she certainly makes today's politicians look insipid.
> > > >
> > > > Thatcher was a once in a half century titan of a politician, in the same league as Pitt, Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd George, Churchill and Attlee. You probably only get 2 in a lifetime at most
> > >
> > > It's striking though how politicians of the the time were so much 'bigger' than they are now. I mean Thatcher's first Cabinet had Whitelaw, Carrington, Howe, Prior, Hailsham, Joseph, Heseltine... The departing Labour Cabinet had Callaghan, Healey, Foot, Benn, Owen... Roy Jenkins was president of the European Commission....
> >
> > There is a case for saying UK politicians had more power then, there were more nationalised industries, less power had leaked to judges and indeed the EU etc so it attracted higher quality candidates. However there are still some heavyweights around, Hammond, Ken Clarke, Cox, Stewart, Cooper, Thornberry, Cable etc.
> >
> >
> > Do not forget 70s and 80s politics also had Cyril Smith, Jeremy Thorpe, Cecil Parkinson etc
> >
>
> With the possible exception of Clarke I wouldn't say any of them were heavyweights. I wonder if people in general are of lower calibre - where are the great artists, novelists, architects etc
I reckon Cyril Smith could be described as heavyweight.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Philip_Thompson said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
> > >
> > > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left.
> > >
> > > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
> >
> > Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
> >
> > They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
>
> They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
Hunt, Gove, Javid, Hancock probably would. Even Boris might, it would get him out of the hole of the risk of No Deal and then he could promise a brilliant FTA future relationship without any risk of No Deal
> They already cancelled UK
>
> https://twitter.com/Parlimag/status/1133397822185922561
A beautiful map.
The E.U maps has many gaping holes in it.
2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain
3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you.
That is all. Goodnight
> 1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday.
> 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain
> 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you.
>
> That is all. Goodnight
Pakistan lost to Afghanistan the other day. Must be a bit disappointing if England aren't favourites for the match.
Saying that "Labour are in a position where they're having to kick out Alastair Campbell" completely misses an open goal.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1133495554766323712
Flanagan (Ind, Left) 97,139
Carthy (SF) 84,825
Walsh (FG) 80,338
Casey (Ind) 66,565
Smith (FF)) 64,532
McHugh (Green) 61,957 ELIMINATED
They go to bed now
still 3 to be elected here. Looks like Flanagan, Carthy and Walsh
> I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader.
Not going to happen. Her arrest saw to that - for now at least (if not forever - which would be my preference - she is a bandwagon-jumper, not a leader)
> > @AndyJS said:
> > I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader.
>
> Not going to happen. Her arrest saw to that - for now at least (if not forever - which would be my preference - she is a bandwagon-jumper, not a leader)
Just being arrested shouldn't be a reason someone can't be leader. How silly. Another possible candidate is Ed Davey.
> > @oxfordsimon said:
> > > @AndyJS said:
> > > I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader.
> >
> > Not going to happen. Her arrest saw to that - for now at least (if not forever - which would be my preference - she is a bandwagon-jumper, not a leader)
>
> Just being arrested shouldn't be a reason someone can't be leader. How silly. Another possible candidate is Ed Davey.
She was arrested for assaulting her partner - even though it didn't result in a prosecution, the assault still happened.
If this had been known at the time of the last GE there is every possibility she would have not gained the seat.
As far as I am concerned, domestic violence (whether prosecuted or not) is a something that is never acceptable.
> > @Drutt said:
> > 1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday.
> > 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain
> > 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you.
> >
> > That is all. Goodnight
>
> Pakistan lost to Afghanistan the other day. Must be a bit disappointing if England aren't favourites for the match.
England very long odds indeed to win that match, as it's between the Windies and Pakistan.
> > @AndyJS said:
> > > @Drutt said:
> > > 1 WI are value at evens against PAK on Friday.
> > > 2 https://twitter.com/gregdoesexplain
> > > 3 Sucks to be a remain campaigner right now. You lost, again, and the EuroParl graphics team have already forsaken you.
> > >
> > > That is all. Goodnight
> >
> > Pakistan lost to Afghanistan the other day. Must be a bit disappointing if England aren't favourites for the match.
>
> England very long odds indeed to win that match, as it's between the Windies and Pakistan.
Thanks, I misread the original post.
Byronic is clearly referring to Empire 2.0
I’m just wondering if the post-Brexit vision is XP or Vista?
> They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
"I voted against it before and after I voted for it"
> 107 Tory MPs have declared so far according to Guido's list.
>
> Does anyone know whether the MP for Brecon & Radnor will be eligible to vote in the ballots?
I think that he is still a conservative MP
> > @AndyJS said:
> > 107 Tory MPs have declared so far according to Guido's list.
> >
> > Does anyone know whether the MP for Brecon & Radnor will be eligible to vote in the ballots?
>
> I think that he is still a conservative MP
Thanks OGH.
> I think Layla Moran would make a better LD leader.
I thought so, but came to realise that it was because I wanted it to be so. She is a fresh, passionate and engaging politician, but very new, and still on a steep learning curve. Her enthusiasm leads her to say things spontaneously that sometimes aren’t that wise; good judgement is an essential quality for a leader and she has some work to do.
Which does leave the LDs with a very limited field, but probably not as bad as you’d get if you selected at random the same small number of Tory or Labour MPs and then had to pick a leader from among them.
> > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > > > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > > > > McMomentum strikes back.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
> > > > >
> > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
> > > >
> > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
> > >
> > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
> >
> > Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
>
> But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support.
>
> His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial
Leonard is currently my favourite politician. But I’m keeping an eye on Gove. Sometimes dreams really do come true.
> So Cleverly has officially entered the race...
Was that clever?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
> > @Philip_Thompson said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > @Philip_Thompson said:
> > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > May is still PM for a few months, if she thinks 40 to 50 MPs will now vote for her WA and give it a majority there is nothing to stop her putting it forward again and then letting her successor just deal with the future relationship. May reiterated today she believe Brexit with a Deal remained the best way forward and it would at least ensure she has a place in history rather than the failure she is perceived as now
> > > >
> > > > Zero chance May will bring the WA back. She has no moral authority left.
> > > >
> > > > If she did most leadership candidates would be obliged to oppose it and urge their followers to oppose it.
> > >
> > > Most leadership candidates have already voted for it, bar Baker and Patel.
> > >
> > > They only opposed tacking a referendum or Customs Union onto it
> >
> > They backed it begrudgingly long before the Brexit Party won the election and before May resigned. No chance they'll back it now during the middle of a leadership campaign.
>
> Hunt, Gove, Javid, Hancock probably would. Even Boris might, it would get him out of the hole of the risk of No Deal and then he could promise a brilliant FTA future relationship without any risk of No Deal
Do you ever stop to think about the crackpot nonsense you post on here?
The answer is yes, for three groups:
- aged 14-19
- students
- current or former members of the armed forces (no, not the Soviet ones)
https://secure.scottishlabour.org.uk/page/content/membership/
(Incidentally, why does PB now use this dreadful commenting system. It is nigh on unusable.)
> https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1133492876296511491
>
>
>
> /r/thatHappened
Donald still enjoying being President then....
> https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1133606048080781313
Not sure he's given a lot of thought to that. Gove on the right wing rather than Raab? I think not.
https://twitter.com/catherine_mayer/status/1133613436041138176
> > @oxfordsimon said:
> > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > > > > @Theuniondivvie said:
> > > > > > McMomentum strikes back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/LeonardForFM/status/1133475079432617984
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For the record, that 'remarkable wave of support' hasn't reached Glasgow twitter trends.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most of my ScotPol twitter timeline was people lol-ing at Scottish Labour's death throes/hoping for James Kelly as next leader for further laughs.
> > > >
> > > > Is this flood mainly from SNP handles?
> > >
> > > Support, wherever it comes from, is clearly welcomed.
> >
> > But it is immensely sad that they have to make such a fuss about receiving support.
> >
> > His days are clearly numbered and his team is in denial
>
> Leonard is currently my favourite politician. But I’m keeping an eye on Gove. Sometimes dreams really do come true.
At least one of the supporters was smart enough to remind people what he actually looks like. I doubt 5% of Scots know.
https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1133614169176051712
>
> I thought so, but came to realise that it was because I wanted it to be so. She is a fresh, passionate and engaging politician, but very new, and still on a steep learning curve. Her enthusiasm leads her to say things spontaneously that sometimes aren’t that wise; good judgement is an essential quality for a leader and she has some work to do.
>
> Which does leave the LDs with a very limited field, but probably not as bad as you’d get if you selected at random the same small number of Tory or Labour MPs and then had to pick a leader from among them.
-------------
I agree.
Dan Snow's Piece of Fake News -- when he said he got a piece of Brexit Party literature included with his ballot paper from the Council -- took her in completely (as well as Jolyon & Carole & pb.com's finest Remainers).
Dan Snow later retracted, eating a big helping of Crow Pie.
Even without the slap, Layla is a gamble. Maybe in 5 to 10 years.
https://twitter.com/so_proksch/status/1133491870766649344
> https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1133613079936294917
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1133614169176051712
Boris’s latest move, to try and stop his colleagues drawing attention to his numerous character flaws?
Good morning, everyone.
As predicted by me just yesterday, Gollum won't relinquish the Precious:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48441344
Bercow saying he'll stay on after all is about as surprising as Boris announcing he wants to be leader.
> Interesting how both UK Con & Lab were significant (worse) outliers in the general European wide trend of punishing established parties in the Euros:
>
> https://twitter.com/so_proksch/status/1133491870766649344
I’m not seeing the “governments did worse” conclusion in that graph?
> > @IanB2 said:.
> >
> > I thought so, but came to realise that it was because I wanted it to be so. She is a fresh, passionate and engaging politician, but very new, and still on a steep learning curve. Her enthusiasm leads her to say things spontaneously that sometimes aren’t that wise; good judgement is an essential quality for a leader and she has some work to do.
> >
> > Which does leave the LDs with a very limited field, but probably not as bad as you’d get if you selected at random the same small number of Tory or Labour MPs and then had to pick a leader from among them.
>
> -------------
>
> I agree.
>
> Dan Snow's Piece of Fake News -- when he said he got a piece of Brexit Party literature included with his ballot paper from the Council -- took her in completely (as well as Jolyon & Carole & pb.com's finest Remainers).
>
> Dan Snow later retracted, eating a big helping of Crow Pie.
>
> Even without the slap, Layla is a gamble. Maybe in 5 to 10 years.
For an intelligent man, Dan S does say some strange things. Probably wise not to accept what he says unless he's working to a script.
And, on topic, think I'd prefer Ms M to have another year or three before becoming Leader.
What are Christine Jardine's chances? Didn't I read that her hat was in the ring?
Seems like a mature, sensible, person.
> https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1133606048080781313
I wouldn't play Hancock and McVey as fullbacks, both too lightweight. Javid is too immobile for midfield.
I would suggest that 343 is a better formation.
Baker in goal, nothing gets through.
Javid, Raab, Cleverley as Centrebacks, not too many gaffes.
Gove as DM, a fierce tackler, with Malthouse and Hunt (c) providing midfield stability.
Upfront Boris as striker, with McVey on the right wing and Stewart on the Left.
As a mother, Leadsome would be best suited as manager.
https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1133618049674821633
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/PeterMannionMP/status/1133606048080781313
>
> I wouldn't play Hancock and McVey as fullbacks, both too lightweight. Javid is too immobile for midfield.
>
> I would suggest that 343 is a better formation.
>
> Baker in goal, nothing gets through.
>
> Javid, Raab, Cleverley as Centrebacks, not too many gaffes.
>
> Gove as DM, a fierce tackler, with Malthouse and Hunt (c) providing midfield stability.
>
> Upfront Boris as striker, with McVey on the right wing and Stewart on the Left.
>
> As a mother, Leadsome would be best suited as manager.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Especially if she is indulging in the occasional "e".
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/there-s-no-avoiding-election-or-a-second-vote-8rqn087zt
https://twitter.com/so_proksch/status/1133491881348870144
Things have changed and a General Election, now, threatens survival of the Conservative Party, and decimation of a variety of Labour constituencies.
It’s likely the new Parliament would be even more divided and factional than this one, totally hung, if such a thing is imaginable.
> The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
>
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/there-s-no-avoiding-election-or-a-second-vote-8rqn087zt
>
> It will be a second referendum.
>
> Things have changed and a General Election, now, threatens survival of the Conservative Party, and decimation of a variety of Labour constituencies.
>
> It’s likely the new Parliament would be even more divided and factional than this one, totally hung, if such a thing is imaginable.
I increasingly think a second referendum, narrow vote to remain, followed a couple of years later by a Brexit party majority and a disorderly no deal Brexit, quite possibly rejoining five years later is the most likely outcome now. A dialectic process. Testing both polar extremes to destruction before returning to some kind of consensus.
> The reality is that in this parliament there isn’t a majority for any solution to Brexit. Yes, you can argue that somehow there might be, and maybe that will turn out to be the case, but we all really know that is pretty unlikely. So you either change the parliament or you seek to make the decision outside parliament. That’s the choice. An election or a referendum.
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> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/there-s-no-avoiding-election-or-a-second-vote-8rqn087zt
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> It will be a second referendum.
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> Things have changed and a General Election, now, threatens survival of the Conservative Party, and decimation of a variety of Labour constituencies.
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> It’s likely the new Parliament would be even more divided and factional than this one, totally hung, if such a thing is imaginable.
Which only leaves open 2 issues:-
1) We don't have time for a referendum to be prepared and completed before the end of September / early October (so it would need an extension); Especially as it can only be called by whoever becomes leader in late July
2) some Tory candidates are already committed to leaving on October 31st. I suspect they can't backtrack from that position and win an election. And it would be hard to backtrack in July to get things done.
So while a referendum is the answer I suspect we are going to get a General Election first as that's the only option available in the time available.
> https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1133616720390885376
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> https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1133618049674821633
A root and branch review of all its processes would have been a very sensible thing to do, three or six months ago - especially if they wanted to add pressure onto Labour. It's probably a bit late now.
And who knows what Parliament might result ?
It would almost certainly be more polarised on Brexit, with an increase in both no dealers and revokers, and I wouldn’t like to begin to guess the Parliamentary numbers. FPTP could throw up some very strange results.