Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
How can this market be settled?!?!
She resigns on June 7th in order that the leadership contest can be triggered. So the 1922 doesn't need to change any rules about her being challenged. I'd argue the position must therefore be void... Can you put that to someone in Tory HQ ?
> @brendan16 said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > I must be the only one who finds Rory Stewart’s approach a bit weird. > > > > It would be impressive if he were travelling across the country speaking to people from all walks of life, as part of a listening exercise designed to gear toward a leadership pitch to “unite the nation”, but - as it is - he’s confined himself to the inner suburbs of London and his method comes across as a little bit Grindr. The fact the MSM are impressed by this tells you everything about how London centric they are. > > > > He's going to Wigan tomorrow > > > > Fair enough. > > Yes - but why does Rory keep going to leave voting areas like Barking and Dagenham and Wigan where there are no Tory MPs, almost no members and few Tory voters. > > Isn't he trying to convince Conservatives - it would be useful surely to go somewhere they exist?
Areas like that are the future for the Tory Party, once they've pissed off the educated middle classes.
> @isam said: > Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date > > I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?" > > The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know! > > How can this market be settled?!?!
The battle for editing Wikipedia pages will be something to behold!
So Campbell tweets that he voted for the LibDems, once.
Meanwhile, Corbyn's inner kitchen cabinet is stuffed full of people who were literally highly active members of other parties, e.g. Communist, until two years ago.
> @rottenborough said: > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > Way Hey Hey. Here we go. > > LibDems gain a useful communicator?
Campbell to take legal action to be re-instated to labour
> @isam said: > Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date > > I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?" > > The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know! > > How can this market be settled?!?!
I wondered about that when she resigned. I assumed there was a process in place........
> @Philip_Thompson said: > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament. > > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal. > > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously. > > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through. > > We need a Nixon who can go to China.
You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
> @williamglenn said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > Con can't deliver any form of Brexit without a new Parliament (this Parliament will never pass WA and they certainly won't allow No Deal) - So if the next Con leader genuinely wants to leave (which I think Raab or Boris do) there will have to be a general election in October - And the only way they can ensure the leave vote isn't split is to do a deal with Farage... > ----------- > > Why would Farage want to bail them out?
_____________________
To get Brexit done.
To be "acknowledged" after 25 years on the outside looking in.
To get a taste of power/government after 25 years on the outside.
> @brendan16 said: > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > More drama from Dublin count > > > > https://twitter.com/Junomaco/status/1133328088333475842 > > > Yes - the issue at dispute is whether you should distribute the lower preferences of the eliminated Sinn Fein candidate. This would give the independent for change candidate 3rd place (as they are more transfer friendly) - rather than the Fianna Fail candidate who is currently 3rd and has exceeded the quota. > > Even the elections minister has got confused about the law he introduced - this morning he said the SF votes should be distributed and now he has contradicted that based on advice from the lawyers. So it looks like Fianna Fail will get the 3rd seat - and go to Brussels whereas the 4th placed independent will have to wait for Brexit (which may never of course happen). > > Its a bit of a farce when ministers don't even understand the legislation they personally brought through parliament - couldn't happen here of course... > > https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/2019/0528/1052105-local-eu-elections/ > >
And Gilroy the guy bashing the wall with the stick got 8,600
> @Mysticrose said: > > @tlg86 said: > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > That's unbelievable > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
> @isam said: > Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date > > I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?" > > The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know! > > How can this market be settled?!?!
I thought parties were legally obliged to declare who their leader is and that was public information in a register? Surely we can go off what that register says?
If May is legally kept as leader until her successor is elected (as has happened with Major 97 and all leaders since) then she is leader. If the post is vacated (as happened with Major 95) then it is June.
> @Mysticrose said: > > @tlg86 said: > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > That's unbelievable > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Its having two asylums that is killing our political system.
> @rottenborough said: > Well, if you will get involved with a party run by Stalinists, what do you expect: > >twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1133248283424509953
Red on Red action. Funny though it is, imagine what they would do with the levers of power to anybody who dares to disagree with them.
> @DavidL said: > > @tlg86 said: > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > Well he said that he had voted Lib Dem on Sunday night. But as he is not an MP or an elected official is that really a kicking out offense?
Almost two thirds of labour 2017 voters voted for another party, maybe a quarter of them voted for the LibDems. Signalling those people are not welcome is a strange move. Has the plan changed from winning with 30% to winning with 25%?
> @isam said: > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > Way Hey Hey. Here we go. > > LibDems gain a useful communicator? > > If they can accept his role in the Iraq War it will be a real sign of ability to compromise
They were in coalition for 5 years with the party that was the most enthusiastic parliamentary supporter of the Iraq war, so I shouldn't think it'll be a problem.
> Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
>
> It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
>
> However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
>
> The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
>
> We need a Nixon who can go to China.
You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
Can’t see Raab losing his seat even in Remainer Esher.
Huge majority there . Bozo on the other hand . Remainers should get behind one candidate there in an effort to remove him. The Lib Dems and Greens really need to say they won’t contest the seat and ask their supporters to vote Labour .
If no deal happens and is a disaster then even a 5000 majority won’t be enough for many Tories .
Probably 30% of the votes to be counted have already been cast. I am not sure that turnout will be lower than last week - my guess is it will be up a bit.
I think it's worse than that - he's the favourite candidate for everyone who is not, and is unlikely ever to be, a Conservative voter.
As I mentioned upthread, he is liked by Tory members who hate BoZo
Bonjour.
Or in fact Guten Tag as I am travelling at the moment.
Although I do think Boris is one of the few people on the planet who could execute a volte face, commit the UK to at least May's deal, if not staying in, and would take much of the membership with him if he did.
> @Pulpstar said: > Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date > > I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?" > > The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know! > > How can this market be settled?!?! > > She resigns on June 7th in order that the leadership contest can be triggered. So the 1922 doesn't need to change any rules about her being challenged. I'd argue the position must therefore be void... > Can you put that to someone in Tory HQ ?
Why? Was it voided when Cameron resigned? Or Howard, or Hague or Major 97?
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @Mysticrose said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night. > > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction. > > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
He broke the party rules by confirming publicly he had backed another party in an election where Labour were standing - others have been expelled for the same thing. You can't have one rule for lowly party members and another for Alastair Campbell.
He knew what he was doing - and now pays the price.
> @rottenborough said: > I think expelling Campbell is a mistake because the inevitable crowing from the cultists will just drive others away. > > At least for once they have picked on someone who is actually a bonafide Blairite.
> @Casino_Royale said: > I must be the only one who finds Rory Stewart’s approach a bit weird. > > It would be impressive if he were travelling across the country speaking to people from all walks of life, as part of a listening exercise designed to gear toward a leadership pitch to “unite the nation”, but - as it is - he’s confined himself to the inner suburbs of London and his method comes across as a little bit Grindr. The fact the MSM are impressed by this tells you everything about how London centric they are. > > A charitable view would be that Rory is playing to his strengths - this is exactly what he did in Iraq and Afghanistan by going out to talk to tribal elders - and making it an asset. > > An uncharitable one would be that he’s entirely in his comfort zone doing what he’s always done and looking a bit like a lost Jesus who could use some spare change.
Have to admit, politics aside I am always far more impressed than I should be by British people who are comfortable conversing in foreign languages, as Rory Stewart did chatting in Dari with someone in a Barking street. Reminded me of Roy Hodgson taking questions in Italian from journos at the Euro2012.
> @geoffw said: > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament. > > > > > > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal. > > > > > > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously. > > > > > > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through. > > > > > > We need a Nixon who can go to China. > > > > You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out > > Slight logical impasse there.
Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served
It is technically correct to do so, and I expect he was hoping for exactly that by advertising he didn't vote for them. But it does create some unfortunate optics for Labour with comparisons how slow they have moved on various cases of antisemitic activists being only suspended rather than expelled. In reality they probably would have been better not to do anything in this case.
Amazing how it took what felt like 27 years to decide if Red Ken might need ejecting from the Labour Party as needed to go through a massive long winded process, but Bad Al, straight out the door.
As stated in the lead to this thread, the turnout on the 6th June in Peterborough could be very low; the general public are exhausted with politics. So with 15 candidates the winning vote and the winning percentage could be very low indeed. There has never been a better chance for the Official Monster Raving Loony party. Several years ago the OMRLs beat David Owen's SDP in a by election and that was the end of the SDP. If the Loonys beat the Conservatives that really could be the end. Anyway the OMRLs are 1000-1 with ladbrokes and coral, and I think I have seen worse bets.
> Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> Way Hey Hey. Here we go.
>
> LibDems gain a useful communicator?
>
> If they can accept his role in the Iraq War it will be a real sign of ability to compromise
They were in coalition for 5 years with the party that was the most enthusiastic parliamentary supporter of the Iraq war, so I shouldn't think it'll be a problem.
... and no doubt they’d work with Blair if it helped get a second referendum I guess. Campbell is the embodiment of the Iraq war though I think
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @Mysticrose said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night. > > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction. > > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
> @franklyn said: > > @oxfordsimon said: > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > That's unbelievable > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night. > > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
> > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners > > So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
Well absolutely. Campbell knew what he was doing. Corbyn never really seems to know was he is doing.
> @MaxPB said: > It will be interesting to see if Rory does well. He's by far the least mental of the candidates.
As a non-Tory I like Rory and would be comfortable with him as PM. Is there a skeleton in his cupboard though? Suggested to me last night that he ran off with another bloke's wife.
> @franklyn said: > > @oxfordsimon said: > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > > > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night. > > > > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction. > > > > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners > > So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
One is apparently against the party rule book and the other is not.
> @geoffw said: > Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served > > But he/she will not have actually carried it out then.
He/she by that time will not get a chance to carry it out
> > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> >
> > That's unbelievable
> >
> > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
>
> It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
>
> This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
>
> He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
What it says is that Corbnyn's Labour don't want the votes of those who, perhaps temporarily, abandoned them last week. For quite a few, that might now become permanent.
> > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
>
> >
>
> > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
>
> >
>
> > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
>
> >
>
> > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
>
> >
>
> > We need a Nixon who can go to China.
>
>
>
> You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
>
> Slight logical impasse there.
Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served
2nd referendum.
Parliament aren’t going to solve this: they won’t vote for the WA or No Deal and don’t have bollocks to Revoke. There will be the votes for a 2nd ref.
A GE would resolve nothing and might even make things *worse* by creating an even more divided and hung parliament.
Meanwhile, polls look very close for 2nd referendum and the People will provide the direct instruction back to the MPs, which the new Tory PM can explain he (or she) has no choice on, which should then resolve and unblock things one way or another.
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @franklyn said: > > > @oxfordsimon said: > > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night. > > > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction. > > > > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners > > > > So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really > > Well absolutely. Campbell knew what he was doing. Corbyn never really seems to know was he is doing. > >
'Really seems to' is superfluous to your last sentence
The London Bridge attacker Khuram Butt got a job on London Underground carrying out security checks despite appearing in a TV documentary about Islamist extremism, the inquest into the atrocity has heard.
Butt, the ringleader of the attack, passed vetting for the London Underground job in May 2015 and was deployed to sensitive stations such as Westminster, with his role including security duties, said Jonathan Hough QC, counsel to the inquest.
He passed, Hough said, despite having appeared in The Jihadis Next Door, a documentary about extremism. Butt seemed to become more extreme after 2013 and told a work colleague the terrorist murder of Lee Rigby in May 2013 was “an eye for an eye”, the inquest heard.
> @justin124 said: > > @MaxPB said: > > It will be interesting to see if Rory does well. He's by far the least mental of the candidates. > > As a non-Tory I like Rory and would be comfortable with him as PM. Is there a skeleton in his cupboard though? Suggested to me last night that he ran off with another bloke's wife.
Doubt that counts as a skeleton any more to a Tory membership that is apparently comfortable with Boris Johnson
> @PaulM said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > I must be the only one who finds Rory Stewart’s approach a bit weird. > > > > It would be impressive if he were travelling across the country speaking to people from all walks of life, as part of a listening exercise designed to gear toward a leadership pitch to “unite the nation”, but - as it is - he’s confined himself to the inner suburbs of London and his method comes across as a little bit Grindr. The fact the MSM are impressed by this tells you everything about how London centric they are. > > > > A charitable view would be that Rory is playing to his strengths - this is exactly what he did in Iraq and Afghanistan by going out to talk to tribal elders - and making it an asset. > > > > An uncharitable one would be that he’s entirely in his comfort zone doing what he’s always done and looking a bit like a lost Jesus who could use some spare change. > > Have to admit, politics aside I am always far more impressed than I should be by British people who are comfortable conversing in foreign languages, as Rory Stewart did chatting in Dari with someone in a Barking street. Reminded me of Roy Hodgson taking questions in Italian from journos at the Euro2012.
It was exactly the kind of global approach that enabled Britain to build and sustain an empire for so long, as written below. The great irony of the Brexiters' "Global Britain" is that it's a sort of Ladybird book view of the past, with the self-importance of an empire and global role, but not much of the outward-looking pragmatism required to keep anything like that going.
> @Casino_Royale said: > > @geoffw said: > > > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > > > > > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We need a Nixon who can go to China. > > > > > > > > > > > > You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out > > > > > > Slight logical impasse there. > > > > Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served > > 2nd referendum. > > Parliament aren’t going to solve this: they won’t vote for the WA or No Deal and don’t have bollocks to Revoke. There will be the votes for a 2nd ref. > > A GE would resolve nothing and might even make things *worse* by creating an even more divided and hung parliament. > > Meanwhile, polls look very close for 2nd referendum and the People will provide the direct instruction back to the MPs, which the new Tory PM can explain he (or she) has no choice on, which should then resolve and unblock things one way or another.
Good point but either way we will not no deal, the HOC will stop it even if it takes down a new PM
I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
> Alternatively it comes across a man going to odd places (e.g. Costa coffee in Barking or public parks), advertising his availability on twitter for a hook up and then engaging with any old stranger who happens to turn up to discuss 'politics'.
>
> Its certainly novel but also rather bizarre?
It's really interesting - because it is the marrying of traditional "out and about in the constituency" politicking with social media video content. It is essentially the evolution of John Major's 1992 soapbox, and provides interesting content for the rest of the media, for minimal effort.
Whether it is effective with the electorate in this particular contest is another matter.
I think you're right. In an election one must appeal to the electorate and present your case in a manner designed to gain a plurality. That kind of naked engineering has gone out of fashion post-Blair, except for Cummings who applied it ruthlessly. Rory's approach is interesting but irrelevant to the election he is in.
I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
How can this market be settled?!?!
OMFG. I can currently exit green, I think I will.
I got out when all this uncertainty started here on PB.
@Big_G_NorthWales You said this: "You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out" I know what you mean, but as written it does not make sense.
> @Casino_Royale said: > > @geoffw said: > > > > @Philip_Thompson said: > > > > > > > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We need a Nixon who can go to China. > > > > > > > > > > > > You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out > > > > > > Slight logical impasse there. > > > > Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served > > 2nd referendum. > > Parliament aren’t going to solve this: they won’t vote for the WA or No Deal and don’t have bollocks to Revoke. There will be the votes for a 2nd ref. > > A GE would resolve nothing and might even make things *worse* by creating an even more divided and hung parliament. > > Meanwhile, polls look very close for 2nd referendum and the People will provide the direct instruction back to the MPs, which the new Tory PM can explain he (or she) has no choice on, which should then resolve and unblock things one way or another.
And a close second referendum will? A referendum which has no backing via a general election result (as the 2016 one did) as the parties that backed it in 2017 only got 10% of the vote?
And what happens if turnout is lower (as a large section of voters may abstain in disgust at the disregarding of the 2016 vote) and a third or more of the country potentially cannot support either option on the ballot paper (e.g. a variant of May's deal vs remain). Or we have multiple leave options to divide the leave campaign and only one remain option?
Of course no doubt this one will be binding - only if remain wins of course!
A victory for democracy for half the country - or just a rigged vote for the rest.
> @Paristonda said: > Alastair Campbell expelled from labour party > > It is technically correct to do so, and I expect he was hoping for exactly that by advertising he didn't vote for them. But it does create some unfortunate optics for Labour with comparisons how slow they have moved on various cases of antisemitic activists being only suspended rather than expelled. In reality they probably would have been better not to do anything in this case.
If the Tories had carried through on their threats to expel anyone supporting the BXP they’d have few members left.
> @HYUFD said: > Campbell expelled from Labour, Widdecombe expelled from the Tories and Heseltine suspended, 3 of the biggest figures from the last 3 decades
> @Sean_F said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Campbell expelled from Labour, Widdecombe expelled from the Tories and Heseltine suspended, 3 of the biggest figures from the last 3 decades > > Life comes at you fast, these days.
Was Widdecombe expelled? I kind of assumed she must have relinquished her membership before joining TBP.
Comments
LibDems gain a useful communicator?
It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
We need a Nixon who can go to China.
Can you put that to someone in Tory HQ ?
> > @Casino_Royale said:
> > I must be the only one who finds Rory Stewart’s approach a bit weird.
> >
> > It would be impressive if he were travelling across the country speaking to people from all walks of life, as part of a listening exercise designed to gear toward a leadership pitch to “unite the nation”, but - as it is - he’s confined himself to the inner suburbs of London and his method comes across as a little bit Grindr. The fact the MSM are impressed by this tells you everything about how London centric they are.
> >
> > He's going to Wigan tomorrow
> >
> > Fair enough.
>
> Yes - but why does Rory keep going to leave voting areas like Barking and Dagenham and Wigan where there are no Tory MPs, almost no members and few Tory voters.
>
> Isn't he trying to convince Conservatives - it would be useful surely to go somewhere they exist?
Areas like that are the future for the Tory Party, once they've pissed off the educated middle classes.
> Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date
>
> I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
>
> The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
>
> How can this market be settled?!?!
The battle for editing Wikipedia pages will be something to behold!
> https://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/1133297979597705216
>
>
>
> We must always spell Röry with the diacritic on the o.
I prefer season 2 - although the Brummie accent may take a bit of getting used to
https://twitter.com/GeneralBoles/status/1133322636472279040
Meanwhile, Corbyn's inner kitchen cabinet is stuffed full of people who were literally highly active members of other parties, e.g. Communist, until two years ago.
> Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> Way Hey Hey. Here we go.
>
> LibDems gain a useful communicator?
Campbell to take legal action to be re-instated to labour
> Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
Dead Cat strategy. Red meat for the Corbynites.
> Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date
>
> I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
>
> The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
>
> How can this market be settled?!?!
I wondered about that when she resigned. I assumed there was a process in place........
> Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
That's unbelievable
The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
Well he said that he had voted Lib Dem on Sunday night. But as he is not an MP or an elected official is that really a kicking out offense?
> https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1133333517440638977
And if Rory's campaign wasn't dead already, it is with that endorsement.
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1133328034730266624
>
> The EHRC cannot do their investigation properly because of 'cuts'
>
> Labour are becoming more insane every day under Corbyn
Well, they'll have nothing to worry about will they, if the investigators are too skint to do a proper job.
"Baker PM, Patel Chancellor, McVey Foreign Office dream team ?"
.................................................................................................
Dream team for political historians as the shortest Premiership in history !!
> Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
>
> It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
>
> However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
>
> The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
>
> We need a Nixon who can go to China.
You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
> > @GIN1138 said:
> >
> > Con can't deliver any form of Brexit without a new Parliament (this Parliament will never pass WA and they certainly won't allow No Deal) - So if the next Con leader genuinely wants to leave (which I think Raab or Boris do) there will have to be a general election in October - And the only way they can ensure the leave vote isn't split is to do a deal with Farage...
> -----------
>
> Why would Farage want to bail them out?
_____________________
To get Brexit done.
To be "acknowledged" after 25 years on the outside looking in.
To get a taste of power/government after 25 years on the outside.
> > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> > More drama from Dublin count
> >
> > https://twitter.com/Junomaco/status/1133328088333475842
>
>
> Yes - the issue at dispute is whether you should distribute the lower preferences of the eliminated Sinn Fein candidate. This would give the independent for change candidate 3rd place (as they are more transfer friendly) - rather than the Fianna Fail candidate who is currently 3rd and has exceeded the quota.
>
> Even the elections minister has got confused about the law he introduced - this morning he said the SF votes should be distributed and now he has contradicted that based on advice from the lawyers. So it looks like Fianna Fail will get the 3rd seat - and go to Brussels whereas the 4th placed independent will have to wait for Brexit (which may never of course happen).
>
> Its a bit of a farce when ministers don't even understand the legislation they personally brought through parliament - couldn't happen here of course...
>
> https://www.rte.ie/news/elections-2019/2019/0528/1052105-local-eu-elections/
>
>
And Gilroy the guy bashing the wall with the stick got 8,600
> > @tlg86 said:
> > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> That's unbelievable
>
> The lunatics have taken over the asylum
It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
> Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date
>
> I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
>
> The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
>
> How can this market be settled?!?!
I thought parties were legally obliged to declare who their leader is and that was public information in a register? Surely we can go off what that register says?
If May is legally kept as leader until her successor is elected (as has happened with Major 97 and all leaders since) then she is leader. If the post is vacated (as happened with Major 95) then it is June.
Personally I expect the former.
> > @tlg86 said:
> > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> That's unbelievable
>
> The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Its having two asylums that is killing our political system.
> Well, if you will get involved with a party run by Stalinists, what do you expect:
>
>twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1133248283424509953
Red on Red action. Funny though it is, imagine what they would do with the levers of power to anybody who dares to disagree with them.
> He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
I don't think Corbyn's in any position to claim winning anything after last Thursday
To the left and to the right there is but madness
> twitter.com/PCollinsTimes/status/1133319274574045185
Balfour lost his own seat as PM. You'd expect the Times to know that (or use Google or phone the in-house librarian). It has come up before on pb.
https://www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers/arthur-james-balfour
> > @tlg86 said:
> > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> Well he said that he had voted Lib Dem on Sunday night. But as he is not an MP or an elected official is that really a kicking out offense?
Almost two thirds of labour 2017 voters voted for another party, maybe a quarter of them voted for the LibDems. Signalling those people are not welcome is a strange move. Has the plan changed from winning with 30% to winning with 25%?
> Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> Way Hey Hey. Here we go.
>
> LibDems gain a useful communicator?
>
> If they can accept his role in the Iraq War it will be a real sign of ability to compromise
They were in coalition for 5 years with the party that was the most enthusiastic parliamentary supporter of the Iraq war, so I shouldn't think it'll be a problem.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1133328034730266624
> >
> > The EHRC cannot do their investigation properly because of 'cuts'
> >
> > Labour are becoming more insane every day under Corbyn
>
> Well, they'll have nothing to worry about will they, if the investigators are too skint to do a proper job.
>
That would be one crowd-funding campaign that would get a lot of money...
Huge majority there . Bozo on the other hand . Remainers should get behind one candidate there in an effort to remove him. The Lib Dems and Greens really need to say they won’t contest the seat and ask their supporters to vote Labour .
If no deal happens and is a disaster then even a 5000 majority won’t be enough for many Tories .
Or in fact Guten Tag as I am travelling at the moment.
Although I do think Boris is one of the few people on the planet who could execute a volte face, commit the UK to at least May's deal, if not staying in, and would take much of the membership with him if he did.
> Can’t see Raab losing his seat even in Remainer Esher.
I mostly agree although large swathes of Surrey went LibDem on Thursday so I'm not so sure.
> Betting on the Theresa May Exit Date
>
> I just spoke to Conservative HQ and asked them "If Theresa May resigns on June 7th, when will she offically cease to be Leader of the Conservative Party?"
>
> The man on the phone said she would be caretaker PM until a new leader is chosen. When I said what about the role of Conservative Party Leader, who will be the leader on June 8th? He said he didn't know. I asked who would know, and he said he didn't know!
>
> How can this market be settled?!?!
>
> She resigns on June 7th in order that the leadership contest can be triggered. So the 1922 doesn't need to change any rules about her being challenged. I'd argue the position must therefore be void...
> Can you put that to someone in Tory HQ ?
Why? Was it voided when Cameron resigned? Or Howard, or Hague or Major 97?
> > @Mysticrose said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> >
> > That's unbelievable
> >
> > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
>
> It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
>
> This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
>
> He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
He broke the party rules by confirming publicly he had backed another party in an election where Labour were standing - others have been expelled for the same thing. You can't have one rule for lowly party members and another for Alastair Campbell.
He knew what he was doing - and now pays the price.
> I think expelling Campbell is a mistake because the inevitable crowing from the cultists will just drive others away.
>
> At least for once they have picked on someone who is actually a bonafide Blairite.
And a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
> I must be the only one who finds Rory Stewart’s approach a bit weird.
>
> It would be impressive if he were travelling across the country speaking to people from all walks of life, as part of a listening exercise designed to gear toward a leadership pitch to “unite the nation”, but - as it is - he’s confined himself to the inner suburbs of London and his method comes across as a little bit Grindr. The fact the MSM are impressed by this tells you everything about how London centric they are.
>
> A charitable view would be that Rory is playing to his strengths - this is exactly what he did in Iraq and Afghanistan by going out to talk to tribal elders - and making it an asset.
>
> An uncharitable one would be that he’s entirely in his comfort zone doing what he’s always done and looking a bit like a lost Jesus who could use some spare change.
Have to admit, politics aside I am always far more impressed than I should be by British people who are comfortable conversing in foreign languages, as Rory Stewart did chatting in Dari with someone in a Barking street. Reminded me of Roy Hodgson taking questions in Italian from journos at the Euro2012.
> > @Philip_Thompson said:
>
> > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
>
> >
>
> > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
>
> >
>
> > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
>
> >
>
> > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
>
> >
>
> > We need a Nixon who can go to China.
>
>
>
> You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
>
> Slight logical impasse there.
Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served
Several years ago the OMRLs beat David Owen's SDP in a by election and that was the end of the SDP. If the Loonys beat the Conservatives that really could be the end.
Anyway the OMRLs are 1000-1 with ladbrokes and coral, and I think I have seen worse bets.
What are they playing at?
https://twitter.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1133329806848864256?s=21
> > @Mysticrose said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> >
> > That's unbelievable
> >
> > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
>
> It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
>
> This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
>
> He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
> > @oxfordsimon said:
> > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > > That's unbelievable
> > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
> > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
> > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
>
> So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
Well absolutely. Campbell knew what he was doing. Corbyn never really seems to know was he is doing.
> It will be interesting to see if Rory does well. He's by far the least mental of the candidates.
As a non-Tory I like Rory and would be comfortable with him as PM. Is there a skeleton in his cupboard though? Suggested to me last night that he ran off with another bloke's wife.
> > @oxfordsimon said:
> > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > >
> > > That's unbelievable
> > >
> > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> >
> > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
> >
> > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
> >
> > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
>
> So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
One is apparently against the party rule book and the other is not.
> https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1133332260428627973
Bad Al should've said the Zionists made him vote Lib Dem.
> Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served
>
> But he/she will not have actually carried it out then.
He/she by that time will not get a chance to carry it out
For quite a few, that might now become permanent.
> https://twitter.com/StephenMcGann/status/1133337064362131456
That makes me not want to watch Call the Midwife again.
Parliament aren’t going to solve this: they won’t vote for the WA or No Deal and don’t have bollocks to Revoke. There will be the votes for a 2nd ref.
A GE would resolve nothing and might even make things *worse* by creating an even more divided and hung parliament.
Meanwhile, polls look very close for 2nd referendum and the People will provide the direct instruction back to the MPs, which the new Tory PM can explain he (or she) has no choice on, which should then resolve and unblock things one way or another.
> > @franklyn said:
> > > @oxfordsimon said:
> > > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > > > That's unbelievable
> > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> > > It was inevitable. He said he wasn't going to vote Labour in an interview before the election. He confirmed who he voted for on Sunday night.
> > > This was done precisely to provoke this reaction.
>
> > > He can play the victim card and Corbyn can play the purity card - both can pretend to be winners
> >
> > So you get booted out of the Labour Party for telling the truth but don't get booted out for making antisemitic remarks. Well that says it all really
>
> Well absolutely. Campbell knew what he was doing. Corbyn never really seems to know was he is doing.
>
>
'Really seems to' is superfluous to your last sentence
> https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1133338141862109184
Perhaps a scandal about to break or a health issue....
(Incidentally...Ploppikins???)
The London Bridge attacker Khuram Butt got a job on London Underground carrying out security checks despite appearing in a TV documentary about Islamist extremism, the inquest into the atrocity has heard.
Butt, the ringleader of the attack, passed vetting for the London Underground job in May 2015 and was deployed to sensitive stations such as Westminster, with his role including security duties, said Jonathan Hough QC, counsel to the inquest.
He passed, Hough said, despite having appeared in The Jihadis Next Door, a documentary about extremism. Butt seemed to become more extreme after 2013 and told a work colleague the terrorist murder of Lee Rigby in May 2013 was “an eye for an eye”, the inquest heard.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/28/london-bridge-attacker-job-carrying-out-security-checks-london-underground
> > @MaxPB said:
> > It will be interesting to see if Rory does well. He's by far the least mental of the candidates.
>
> As a non-Tory I like Rory and would be comfortable with him as PM. Is there a skeleton in his cupboard though? Suggested to me last night that he ran off with another bloke's wife.
Doubt that counts as a skeleton any more to a Tory membership that is apparently comfortable with Boris Johnson
> https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1133332260428627973
It would take a heart of stone...…..
> > @Casino_Royale said:
> > I must be the only one who finds Rory Stewart’s approach a bit weird.
> >
> > It would be impressive if he were travelling across the country speaking to people from all walks of life, as part of a listening exercise designed to gear toward a leadership pitch to “unite the nation”, but - as it is - he’s confined himself to the inner suburbs of London and his method comes across as a little bit Grindr. The fact the MSM are impressed by this tells you everything about how London centric they are.
> >
> > A charitable view would be that Rory is playing to his strengths - this is exactly what he did in Iraq and Afghanistan by going out to talk to tribal elders - and making it an asset.
> >
> > An uncharitable one would be that he’s entirely in his comfort zone doing what he’s always done and looking a bit like a lost Jesus who could use some spare change.
>
> Have to admit, politics aside I am always far more impressed than I should be by British people who are comfortable conversing in foreign languages, as Rory Stewart did chatting in Dari with someone in a Barking street. Reminded me of Roy Hodgson taking questions in Italian from journos at the Euro2012.
It was exactly the kind of global approach that enabled Britain to build and sustain an empire for so long, as written below. The great irony of the Brexiters' "Global Britain" is that it's a sort of Ladybird book view of the past, with the self-importance of an empire and global role, but not much of the outward-looking pragmatism required to keep anything like that going.
> Seems like they might be right. He’s not holding that camera but seemingly wants it to look like he is. Small point.
>
> https://twitter.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1133329806848864256
Oh god! That's clearly him pretending. Not so authentic Rory now....
>
> Oh god! That's clearly been faked. Not so authentic Rory now....
https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1133333952452845568
> https://twitter.com/Maomentum_/status/1133338456623652864
He congratulated a candidate on winning as good losers usually do. He didn't say he had or would have voted for him so rather different.
Oh you Nazi boys
https://twitter.com/tomkibasi/status/1133157728065658880?s=21
> > @geoffw said:
>
> > > @Philip_Thompson said:
>
> >
>
> > > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > We need a Nixon who can go to China.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
>
> >
>
> > Slight logical impasse there.
>
>
>
> Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served
>
> 2nd referendum.
>
> Parliament aren’t going to solve this: they won’t vote for the WA or No Deal and don’t have bollocks to Revoke. There will be the votes for a 2nd ref.
>
> A GE would resolve nothing and might even make things *worse* by creating an even more divided and hung parliament.
>
> Meanwhile, polls look very close for 2nd referendum and the People will provide the direct instruction back to the MPs, which the new Tory PM can explain he (or she) has no choice on, which should then resolve and unblock things one way or another.
Good point but either way we will not no deal, the HOC will stop it even if it takes down a new PM
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1133338141862109184
> Perhaps a scandal about to break or a health issue....
SLab's result on Sunday was a scandal and the party (sub branch) is terminally ill.
You said this: "You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out"
I know what you mean, but as written it does not make sense.
> > @geoffw said:
>
> > > @Philip_Thompson said:
>
> >
>
> > > Its blatantly obvious the deal is dead and the backstop can't be gotten through Parliament.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > It is also obvious the EU and Ireland especially don't actually want No Deal.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > However the EU and Ireland refuse to renegotiate the backstop as they don't take No Deal seriously.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The best chance of getting a deal through then is to elect a serious No Dealer. Call Ireland's bluff. If they still refuse to negotiate we end this farce with No Deal and move on. But if they take us seriously and negotiate then that's the best chance of getting an actual deal through.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > We need a Nixon who can go to China.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You do not address the fact that a no deal PM who actually carries it out will be toast before he/she can carry it out
>
> >
>
> > Slight logical impasse there.
>
>
>
> Not really. If it is clear towards the end of October we are going out on a no deal a vonc will be swift and and a revoke notice can be served
>
> 2nd referendum.
>
> Parliament aren’t going to solve this: they won’t vote for the WA or No Deal and don’t have bollocks to Revoke. There will be the votes for a 2nd ref.
>
> A GE would resolve nothing and might even make things *worse* by creating an even more divided and hung parliament.
>
> Meanwhile, polls look very close for 2nd referendum and the People will provide the direct instruction back to the MPs, which the new Tory PM can explain he (or she) has no choice on, which should then resolve and unblock things one way or another.
And a close second referendum will? A referendum which has no backing via a general election result (as the 2016 one did) as the parties that backed it in 2017 only got 10% of the vote?
And what happens if turnout is lower (as a large section of voters may abstain in disgust at the disregarding of the 2016 vote) and a third or more of the country potentially cannot support either option on the ballot paper (e.g. a variant of May's deal vs remain). Or we have multiple leave options to divide the leave campaign and only one remain option?
Of course no doubt this one will be binding - only if remain wins of course!
A victory for democracy for half the country - or just a rigged vote for the rest.
> Alastair Campbell expelled from labour party
>
> It is technically correct to do so, and I expect he was hoping for exactly that by advertising he didn't vote for them. But it does create some unfortunate optics for Labour with comparisons how slow they have moved on various cases of antisemitic activists being only suspended rather than expelled. In reality they probably would have been better not to do anything in this case.
If the Tories had carried through on their threats to expel anyone supporting the BXP they’d have few members left.
> Campbell expelled from Labour, Widdecombe expelled from the Tories and Heseltine suspended, 3 of the biggest figures from the last 3 decades
Life comes at you fast, these days.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Campbell expelled from Labour, Widdecombe expelled from the Tories and Heseltine suspended, 3 of the biggest figures from the last 3 decades
>
> Life comes at you fast, these days.
Was Widdecombe expelled? I kind of assumed she must have relinquished her membership before joining TBP.