politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trick or Treat? Reports that Brexit day moved to Halloween as
Comments
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Deal or no deal?isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
What % of the public voted for each?0 -
The SNP topped the poll by some distance in the 2017 local elections. The Conservatives were fourth behind Labour and the Greens. The Lib Dems were further behind an Independent.Scott_P said:In other news, there is a council byelection in Edinburgh today. I have no idea who will win, but the branding is interesting
https://twitter.com/MilesBriggsMSP/status/1116213098136985601
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_City_of_Edinburgh_Council_election#Leith_Walk0 -
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians0 -
IIRC the 1975 referendum process was much shorter than 24 weeks. And before FTPA the formal general election process could be as short as 3 weeks - the Feb 1974 election campaign was exactly 3 weeks from announcement to polling day.Cyclefree said:
In normal times. But these aren’t normal times so I’m sure the process could be expedited.eek said:
The minimum time is 24 weeks see https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/05/how-long-would-it-take-to-hold-a-second-referendum-on-brexit/Cyclefree said:
Of course there is. Our MPs just need to take their collective fingers out of their arses and get on with it. But as they couldn’t run a bath without getting the coast guard involved .......eek said:
I don’t think there is enough time for us to have a referendum by the end of October. No I may be wrong but even setting the question takes a few months
So given it's April now unless we voted for it tomorrow it's unlikely we could have a referendum in time although that could be a justification to delay things until December while holding it in November.0 -
This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
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SNP first, Conservative second, with the SNP holding it on transfers is the likeliest outcome.OblitusSumMe said:
The SNP topped the poll by some distance in the 2017 local elections. The Conservatives were fourth behind Labour and the Greens. The Lib Dems were further behind an Independent.Scott_P said:In other news, there is a council byelection in Edinburgh today. I have no idea who will win, but the branding is interesting
https://twitter.com/MilesBriggsMSP/status/1116213098136985601
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_City_of_Edinburgh_Council_election#Leith_Walk0 -
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.Cyclefree said:
In normal times. But these aren’t normal times so I’m sure the process could be expedited.eek said:
The minimum time is 24 weeks see https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/05/how-long-would-it-take-to-hold-a-second-referendum-on-brexit/Cyclefree said:
Of course there is. Our MPs just need to take their collective fingers out of their arses and get on with it. But as they couldn’t run a bath without getting the coast guard involved .......eek said:
I don’t think there is enough time for us to have a referendum by the end of October. No I may be wrong but even setting the question takes a few months
So given it's April now unless we voted for it tomorrow it's unlikely we could have a referendum in time although that could be a justification to delay things until December while holding it in November.
Waste of time and money.0 -
I always considered that it was one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy that if x was voted for, x would be delivered no matter how dreadful an idea it turns out to be (Electing Corbyn will fall into this category perhaps). To not leave the EU would be to fundamentally break with that principle. Now I know May has played her hand very poorly indeed, but her deal simply must go through.MarqueeMark said:
MPs:....but we reserve the right to fuck about if they AGAIN have the temerity to come back with an answer we don't like.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What has become clear since June 2016 is that MPs REALLY don't like democracy.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.0 -
How naïve is that? Leaving aside trying to bypass a parliament elected more recently than the referendum, can you imagine the fuss Francois and Cash and co. would have created? The government would have been collapsed by now.isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians0 -
Taking a week off for Easter to refresh, reflect and talk to constituents would be very sensible. Spending a couple of weeks at Easter, another for May, two weeks for Whitsun, 6 weeks for summer holidays, and four weeks for conference season may not be the best use of the next 6 months however.Nemtynakht said:
I actually think they need a break. Go back to the constituencies and find out what people think outside the Bubble.Nigelb said:
As they appear to be set on an Easter break, such precipitate behaviour would seem out of character...eek said:
The minimum time is 24 weeks see https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/05/how-long-would-it-take-to-hold-a-second-referendum-on-brexit/Cyclefree said:
Of course there is. Our MPs just need to take their collective fingers out of their arses and get on with it. But as they couldn’t run a bath without getting the coast guard involved .......eek said:
I don’t think there is enough time for us to have a referendum by the end of October. No I may be wrong but even setting the question takes a few months
So given it's April now unless we voted for it tomorrow it's unlikely we could have a referendum in time although that could be a justification to delay things until December while holding it in November.0 -
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.0 -
I suspect at least 100 Tory MPs would need the whip withdrawing regarding the Euro elections. They have pledged to the voters that they would make our involvement in Euro elections a thing of the past - you could argue they would be hypocrites to vote in them at all.Pulpstar said:
I always considered that it was one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy that if x was voted for, x would be delivered no matter how dreadful an idea it turns out to be (Electing Corbyn will fall into this category perhaps). To not leave the EU would be to fundamentally break with that principle. Now I know May has played her hand very poorly indeed, but her deal simply must go through.MarqueeMark said:
MPs:....but we reserve the right to fuck about if they AGAIN have the temerity to come back with an answer we don't like.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What has become clear since June 2016 is that MPs REALLY don't like democracy.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.0 -
I don't think they do, any more. That's the Tories' real problem; they may end up imposing something upon the country that by the time we get to it is overwhelmingly unwanted.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.0 -
Yep - the Tory MP from Clywd interviewed yesterday refused to endorse the Tories for the EurosMarqueeMark said:
I suspect at least 100 Tory MPs would need the whip withdrawing regarding the Euro elections. They have pledged to the voters that they would make our involvement in Euro elections a thing of the past - you could argue they would be hypocrites to vote in them at all.Pulpstar said:
I always considered that it was one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy that if x was voted for, x would be delivered no matter how dreadful an idea it turns out to be (Electing Corbyn will fall into this category perhaps). To not leave the EU would be to fundamentally break with that principle. Now I know May has played her hand very poorly indeed, but her deal simply must go through.MarqueeMark said:
MPs:....but we reserve the right to fuck about if they AGAIN have the temerity to come back with an answer we don't like.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What has become clear since June 2016 is that MPs REALLY don't like democracy.
I think the whips office should look into Anne Marie Morris' comments this morning - when a Tory MP is asked who they'll vote for in an election for the answer not to instantly be the Conservatives is beyond reproach. She should have the whip withdrawn.0 -
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.0 -
I see Heidi has fallen into the trap of naming possible defectors only for them to say no, we are staying put. On the other hand looks like they have started setting up local organisation - certainly in Heidi's patch they are set up, Fenland, west Norfolk etc0
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I think we're saying the same thing. It was the emphasis on the red lines rather than the compromise that put so many middle-of-the-roaders off.Nemtynakht said:
I think your rosé tinted glasses and affecting your judgement. If it were sold as the hardest of hard brexits then the would have supported it. Unfortunately May is apologetic in a British way and failed to sell it as the compromise it was. She highlighted her red lines rather than explaining why it was a compromise.Roger said:
She sold it really badly. Everything about the deal was negative which put the backs up of Remainers. It was sold as the hardest of hard Brexits to appeal to her lunatic fringe which it wasn't but it gave the middle ground a reason to fight it.alex. said:
What has caused the collapse is failure to leave, not disagreement with the terms of departure. ERG claims that they are/were motivated partly by electoral reasons are hollow. Had we left on March 29th under May’s deal the Brexit vote would be firmly behind the Conservatives for the foreseeable future. Labour would be splintering into about 6 pieces.kle4 said:
Yes, finally looks plausible. And the erg intractable will say it shows what they want should happen even though polling was fine when May was trying to get her policy through rather than cut a deal.anothernick said:
The Tory implosion at Westminster finally seems to be hitting the poll numbers.RobD said:
That is surely one of the biggest swings in a single poll ever recorded?AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile Conservative freefall continues:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1116208675306209280?s=21
The real difficulty for May is that she has to get 300+ votes from around 450 who might vote for the deal - the rest either openly want to revoke, or remain via a further referendum ( I’ve still not met anyone who voted Leave who wants a second referendum). So in effect she is trying to get a super majority of 2/3rds for a compromise deal which no one likes but maybe most could live with. That is difficult for anyone no matter how competent.0 -
That’s exactly why the EU should have pushed the extension even further. Support for Brexit is only going one way...IanB2 said:
I don't think they do, any more. That's the Tories' real problem; they may end up imposing something upon the country that by the time we get to it is overwhelmingly unwanted.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.0 -
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
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Nah - pointless - MPs don't care about referendum results that's clear. Question or format is irrelevant.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
The voters trust has gone - referendums are a waste of time.
"Binding" - lol.
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It comes back to the failure to establish an enquiry into what options were feasible. As a result, we have some red lines Theresa May plucked out of thin air, and 650 unicorns because most MPs of whatever stripe have never had to engage in the detail.Nemtynakht said:
I think your rosé tinted glasses and affecting your judgement. If it were sold as the hardest of hard brexits then the would have supported it. Unfortunately May is apologetic in a British way and failed to sell it as the compromise it was. She highlighted her red lines rather than explaining why it was a compromise.Roger said:
She sold it really badly. Everything about the deal was negative which put the backs up of Remainers. It was sold as the hardest of hard Brexits to appeal to her lunatic fringe which it wasn't but it gave the middle ground a reason to fight it.alex. said:
What has caused the collapse is failure to leave, not disagreement with the terms of departure. ERG claims that they are/were motivated partly by electoral reasons are hollow. Had we left on March 29th under May’s deal the Brexit vote would be firmly behind the Conservatives for the foreseeable future. Labour would be splintering into about 6 pieces.kle4 said:
Yes, finally looks plausible. And the erg intractable will say it shows what they want should happen even though polling was fine when May was trying to get her policy through rather than cut a deal.anothernick said:
The Tory implosion at Westminster finally seems to be hitting the poll numbers.RobD said:
That is surely one of the biggest swings in a single poll ever recorded?AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile Conservative freefall continues:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1116208675306209280?s=21
The real difficulty for May is that she has to get 300+ votes from around 450 who might vote for the deal - the rest either openly want to revoke, or remain via a further referendum ( I’ve still not met anyone who voted Leave who wants a second referendum). So in effect she is trying to get a super majority of 2/3rds for a compromise deal which no one likes but maybe most could live with. That is difficult for anyone no matter how competent.0 -
You would have thought finally someone would have found a use for the Express.Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
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Mr. Saddo, if May were an orc, the day after Barad-dur fell she'd be reaffirming her commitment to a Sauron-ruled Middle Earth.0
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So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.IanB2 said:
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.0 -
My worry about this extention is that it's long enough to keep things into the semi-long grass, and its so easy for MPs to think 'we need a rest, lets look at it in the summer', and then come September time, we're in the same place.
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In practical terms, what could the government actually do to prepare for no deal that we have not done? As far as I can tell we have spent around £2bn specifically on no deal. How many people should we have employed and trained to do customs and tariffs checks. How would we train them to deal with the Irish border when no-one is willing to say how it would operate? How would it take account of any "mini-deals" that we hope to sign? Like most of brexit, the headline is fine, but if you drill into the detail there are often few good answers.Sandpit said:
Indeed. The EU have massively overplayed their hand in the negotiations, and now try and blame the UK PM for her failure to carry the supplicantary deal through her own Parliament.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Which is indeed why there is no reason to believe them.alex. said:
Well, not if you believe what the EU are saying on post nodeal trade talks, even though their position is nonsensical.
Ie. “no commencing of trade talks without a “backstop” for Ireland”. A backstop to what, is somewhat unclear - a failure to agree a trade deal, so no deal situation continues...?
Don't overlook the fact that the EU blinked yesterday. An extension to UK membership was agreed, without any attempt to impose conditions. That reflects the concern of the 27 EU states at the prospect of the UK leaving without having our hands tied first for the negotiations that would follow.
TM has of course failed and needs to go, mainly for spending two years saying that no deal was better than a bad deal - while doing almost nothing to actually prepare for that eventuality.
The huge advantage of no-deal now would be that the negotiations would become more equal, with both sides keen to resolve ongoing disruption.
Anyway, work won't do itself. Laters.0 -
Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts0 -
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.Ishmael_Z said:
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.IanB2 said:
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
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I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.saddo said:
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?TGOHF said:This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.0 -
Why do people keep coming up with these little piffling details, rather than concentrating on the majestic concept of Britain, free to follow her destiny at last? Of what importance is personal hygiene, compared to that?Ishmael_Z said:
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
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Ooh, good point here:
https://twitter.com/Staedtler/status/1116243065021325312
Dunno, I guess the DUP will vote for her new Queen's Speech in exchange for more bribes?0 -
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..IanB2 said:
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.saddo said:
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?TGOHF said:This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.0 -
Also by "preparing" for no deal, in addition to spending public money on something unlikely to happen or be of any use (until recently something the Conservative party would rightly flag and complain about), each pound spent by the govt on no deal would result in less business investment in the real economy (again, a sector that until recently the Conservative party would try to support).0
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Well, in an attempt to spread a bit of European harmony, here -
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pkcHjmXmEg0
Is a Neapolitan who lived much of his life in Paris playing one of Elgar’s finest pieces “Salut d’amour”. For the love of your life.0 -
David Davis in the Nigel Fucking Farage slot on R4 this morning claiming a different leader could renegotiate the backstop.IanB2 said:I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles.
It's willful idiocy.0 -
Well I tick five of the boxes, but I'm not saying which!TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts
See you there, TSE.0 -
Mr. Eagles, “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters” is quite a broad list.
I've never been swayed by a religious dingbat claiming everyone who doesn't agree with them will burn in Hell forever.0 -
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.TGOHF said:
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.Ishmael_Z said:
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.IanB2 said:
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.0 -
"A longer #Brexit extension would have been better! But #Macron prioritized his own election campaign and interests over European unity. #UK now needs to use new deadline to either decide on the case or a political path forward. Good news: time should be sufficient for that. #EUCO"
The Germans are turning on the French...0 -
"We're on a express elevator to hell! Going Down!"TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts0 -
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.TGOHF said:
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..IanB2 said:
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.saddo said:
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?TGOHF said:This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go. It's all Tory activists on ConHome and Mailonline.0 -
It's just the one: liar.Peter_the_Punter said:
Well I tick five of the boxes, but I'm not saying which!TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts
See you there, TSE.0 -
It's not as if the materials are difficult to obtain.Ishmael_Z said:
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.0 -
Acts schmacts - we were told that the Govt would implement what was decided in the last referendum.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.TGOHF said:
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.Ishmael_Z said:
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.IanB2 said:
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.
0 -
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.TOPPING said:
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.0 -
All part of David Cameron's masterplan.TheWhiteRabbit said:The Germans are turning on the French...
0 -
Japanese lavatories incorporating bidets are the way to go. I draw the line at wiping newsprint on my arse.AlastairMeeks said:
You would have thought finally someone would have found a use for the Express.Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
0 -
They should never have got a vote on it. At that point they stole the power promised by them to the electoratewilliamglenn said:
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians0 -
-
TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's just the one: liar.Peter_the_Punter said:
Well I tick five of the boxes, but I'm not saying which!TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts
See you there, TSE.
0 -
The Tories best bet imo is to lose a VONC, abstain on Corbyn confidence until they have a new leader then VONC him out and fight the GE, or enjoy watching labour implode in government.
Both main parties on about 30 with no standout third party is a sorry state of affairs. I'd expect a swing back to both main parties in a GE though to 35 or a bit more each. If the Tories could get 30% against Blair with a big third party score they must get 35 min vs Corbyn!0 -
Again?!TheWhiteRabbit said:"A longer #Brexit extension would have been better! But #Macron prioritized his own election campaign and interests over European unity. #UK now needs to use new deadline to either decide on the case or a political path forward. Good news: time should be sufficient for that. #EUCO"
The Germans are turning on the French...0 -
0
-
IanB2 said:
How naïve is that? Leaving aside trying to bypass a parliament elected more recently than the referendum, can you imagine the fuss Francois and Cash and co. would have created? The government would have been collapsed by now.isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
Heaven forbid0 -
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.IanB2 said:
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.TGOHF said:
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..IanB2 said:
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.saddo said:
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?TGOHF said:This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.
0 -
Don't you have bridges in Yorkshire?TheScreamingEagles said:London Bridge is falling down?
https://twitter.com/StigAbell/status/1116250659957948417
0 -
So anything May decided to put in her deal would have been acceptable to you and she should have had the power to bypass parliament?isam said:
They should never have got a vote on it. At that point they stole the power promised by them to the electoratewilliamglenn said:
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians0 -
Wee Dan is a sensitive soul. Classifying a Partridge gif as abuse is, well, Partridgesque.OblitusSumMe said:
The SNP topped the poll by some distance in the 2017 local elections. The Conservatives were fourth behind Labour and the Greens. The Lib Dems were further behind an Independent.Scott_P said:In other news, there is a council byelection in Edinburgh today. I have no idea who will win, but the branding is interesting
https://twitter.com/MilesBriggsMSP/status/1116213098136985601
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_City_of_Edinburgh_Council_election#Leith_Walk
https://twitter.com/DanMcCroskrie/status/11155664448493772800 -
No, it can be done in an entirely tamper proof manner provided you have a specific wording of the withdrawal agreement written in to the Act. That's what parliamentary sovereignty means.TGOHF said:
Acts schmacts - we were told that the Govt would implement what was decided in the last referendum.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.TGOHF said:
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.Ishmael_Z said:
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.IanB2 said:
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.0 -
The Euros (assuming they happen) might be illuminating on this point.IanB2 said:I don't think they do, any more. That's the Tories' real problem; they may end up imposing something upon the country that by the time we get to it is overwhelmingly unwanted.
LD + CHANGE versus UKIP + BREXIT.
A clear 'win' for one side or the other will need to be taken seriously.
Caveat: Turnout.0 -
Other than tieing the next PMs hands.williamglenn said:
So anything May decided to put in her deal would have been acceptable to you and she should have had the power to bypass parliament?isam said:
They should never have got a vote on it. At that point they stole the power promised by them to the electoratewilliamglenn said:
May’s deal was negotiated by politicians, and hated by a large enough number of Brexiteers to make it toxic to have imposed it like that.isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians0 -
The best chance of stopping Brexit is keeping May in power - hence why Remainers are her biggest fans all of a sudden.Recidivist said:
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.IanB2 said:
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.TGOHF said:
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..IanB2 said:
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.saddo said:
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?TGOHF said:This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.0 -
He has now been sacked by rugby australia. Never mind, one of their best players missing the world cup.TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts
Ozzies sportsmen always match fixing, cheating or being racist / homophobic.0 -
Terrible smear against the ZX Spectrum.0
-
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/g5fjrnocck/Results_190329_EUElecetion_w.pdf
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%,
Lab 18%,
Brexit Party 17%
Stay in the EU Party 17%,
UKIP 10%,
Green 9%
Lib Dem 9%.0 -
God has forsaken IsraelFrancisUrquhart said:
He has now been sacked by rugby australia. Never mind, one of their best players missing the world cup.TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts0 -
At least he didn't include Brexiteers in his list.FrancisUrquhart said:
He has now been sacked by rugby australia. Never mind, one of their best players missing the world cup.TheScreamingEagles said:Well I'm not going to be lonely in hell.
The Wallabies’ major sponsor has condemned Israel Folau’s latest social media outburst and is awaiting Rugby Australia’s review into the controversy. RA’s integrity unit is investigating after Folau took to Instagram to proclaim hell awaits “drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters”.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/11/israel-folaus-rugby-career-on-the-line-amid-criticism-over-more-anti-gay-posts0 -
What’s the point in returning powers to Westminster if its inhabitants behave without a shred of integrity?isam said:
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.TOPPING said:
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.0 -
And the factory and machinery?Sean_F said:
It's not as if the materials are difficult to obtain.Ishmael_Z said:
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.0 -
Scratch cards and Lambert & Butler cigs are unlikely to be affected.Nemtynakht said:
I don’t think I’ve met e leaver who is stock piling,0 -
And it's very unlikely any kind of Brexit can be delivered with her. Labour will not sign up to a deal because May cannot guarantee that her party will not rip it up the minute she steps down and without Labour support she cannot find a parliamentary majority for any form of Brexit.Recidivist said:
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.IanB2 said:
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.TGOHF said:
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..IanB2 said:
I sense she's getting personal blame mostly from Conservative activists, who carry around some sort of fantasy vision of an alternative universe where some Brexiter works miracles. For ordinary voters I genuinely don't think May is the problem - indeed her popularity is above that of her party. It's the general mess that Brexit has turned into and the endless infighting within government - that has hit the party's ratings, and I doubt changing leader would make much difference without a resolution.saddo said:
How big a disaster will the local elections have to be for May to understand how much she's hated?TGOHF said:This uncertainty will be causing delays to investment.
More damaging than a quick clean mini deal exit.
Conservatives need to oust May immediately.
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.0 -
You as an informed politics nerd might get that but the voters won't care. They will see it rightly as a stitch up.Ishmael_Z said:
No, it can be done in an entirely tamper proof manner provided you have a specific wording of the withdrawal agreement written in to the Act. That's what parliamentary sovereignty means.TGOHF said:
Acts schmacts - we were told that the Govt would implement what was decided in the last referendum.Ishmael_Z said:
Wrong. As with the AV referendum you write the result into the Act - if Leave has a majority the PM shall immediately sign up to the WA in schedule 1 of this Act. If they don't, business as usual.TGOHF said:
Why would a leaver or a remainer want another referendum ? MPs could change the result either way.Ishmael_Z said:
So leavers should be clamouring for ref no 2 - it really is their best and last chance. If they can bring themselves to face the notion that voting may not be the most undemocratic activity known to man.IanB2 said:
Yes - as with the AV referendum it would be possible to include a clause binding the government. The WA already exists and the referendum vote could be made the ratification.edmundintokyo said:
If it's Deal vs Revoke then they wouldn't - you could make the referendum binding and immediate, in which case it could only be undone after the event by a heroic act of parliamentary decisiveness. Whatever you think about the current parliament, excessive decisiveness isn't one of its faults.TGOHF said:
Another referendum is utterly pointless if MPs get to veto the result either way.
Waste of time and money.
An Angus Reid opinion poll carries more weight.
Good luck selling "it's different this time" on the doorstep.
0 -
How did everyone vote in 2016 and what would they do in a further referendum? I’d love to know how many have changed their. I don’t. I’ll start
Remain, then WA or remain if Remain vs no deal
0 -
We actually have factories that produce toilet paper in the UK.Ishmael_Z said:
And the factory and machinery?Sean_F said:
It's not as if the materials are difficult to obtain.Ishmael_Z said:
Well, if you need lots of it you need a sodding great factory to make it in, you need a supply chain to get the right sort of wood from (assuming it's made of wood and we have the right sort of wood in the UK) and you need a distribution network to deliver it to the arse-wiping community. All that takes more than a couple of months to arrange. Or perhaps a lot of little local artisans would start hand crafting it for their villages?Sean_F said:
The oddest is stockpiling lavatory paper. I wouldn't have thought that would be hard to produce and distribute locally.dyedwoolie said:Stockpiling bottled water is a bit post apocalyptic isn't it?! It's not like Brexit will cause the water supply to cut out, it's not a war. Frankly if Britain can't keep the taps running in peacetime then stockpiling is the least of your worries.
Possibly, there is a form of artisan or craft toilet paper that can only be obtained from abroad, but most arse-wipers aren't bothered about that.0 -
No deal, then no deal. 2nd ref should be May's deal or no deal as we've already voted to leave. Anything else makes the first referendum meaningless. If there's a ref with remain as an option and it passes do we try best out of three?Nemtynakht said:How did everyone vote in 2016 and what would they do in a further referendum? I’d love to know how many have changed their. I don’t. I’ll start
Remain, then WA or remain if Remain vs no deal0 -
Couldn't really be more split if it tried.Sean_F said:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/g5fjrnocck/Results_190329_EUElecetion_w.pdf
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%,
Lab 18%,
Brexit Party 17%
Stay in the EU Party 17%,
UKIP 10%,
Green 9%
Lib Dem 9%.0 -
There has been a new extension....thread.0
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No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?isam said:
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.TOPPING said:
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.0 -
Labour again chasing unicorns. Burgon was called on it on r4 this morning with no answer - no government can tie the hands of its successor. Perhaps labour want this so when they get in they can ignore thisanothernick said:
And it's very unlikely any kind of Brexit can be delivered with her. Labour will not sign up to a deal because May cannot guarantee that her party will not rip it up the minute she steps down and without Labour support she cannot find a parliamentary majority for any form of Brexit.Recidivist said:
Quite right. In fact they'd be mad to get rid of her. She is unique in that she can credibly make the case to the undecided either for remaining or for leaving with a particular deal - in the latter case especially so if she can pull off an agreement with the Labour Party as part of the package. Most people don't care too much about the details but they'd trust someone who has obviously put a lot of work in and who has never seemed to have much of an axe to grind and who most importantly is clearly loathed by the extremists. I don't think any kind of Brexit can now be delivered without May.IanB2 said:
I am not saying she is blameless - for those of us following the story in detail, she has clearly made some bad misjudgements, which have been spelled out at length here.TGOHF said:
This must be the first political event where the leader is blameless. St Maybot the unlucky did everything she could but those dreadful voters and MPs who she didn't consult didn't bend to her will..IanB2 said:
I am saying that many of the general public, who aren't into the detail and mostly not fanatical about the outcome one way or the other, see a woman in an almost impossible situation trying to do her best, surrounded by uncompromising mostly men. It may be sympathy moving on pity, but the polls suggest she is propping up Tory ratings rather than the reverse. I haven't heard a single person in the flesh saying they think she should go.0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
Rather than not leaving, yesTOPPING said:
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?isam said:
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.TOPPING said:
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.0 -
I don't think I have ever seen an opinion poll where a hypothetical party scores 17%.logical_song said:
Couldn't really be more split if it tried.Sean_F said:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/g5fjrnocck/Results_190329_EUElecetion_w.pdf
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%,
Lab 18%,
Brexit Party 17%
Stay in the EU Party 17%,
UKIP 10%,
Green 9%
Lib Dem 9%.0 -
NEW THREAD0
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Got Ode To Joy on repeat !
Extra time now for Brits who want to escape the UK before the right wing coup is completed when the Tories put in Bozo or another nutjob .0 -
Or where both Tory and Labour are below 20%. Amazing.Recidivist said:
I don't think I have ever seen an opinion poll where a hypothetical party scores 17%.logical_song said:
Couldn't really be more split if it tried.Sean_F said:https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/g5fjrnocck/Results_190329_EUElecetion_w.pdf
An EU election poll from Yougov. It's a bit odd as they've not excluded don't knows, and they've included a generic Stay in the EU Party option. FWIW, and excluding don't knows:-
Con 18%,
Lab 18%,
Brexit Party 17%
Stay in the EU Party 17%,
UKIP 10%,
Green 9%
Lib Dem 9%.0 -
Txisam said:
Rather than not leaving, yesTOPPING said:
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?isam said:
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.TOPPING said:
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.0 -
Although I don’t want it or would be particularly happy about it, I back the deal.TOPPING said:
Txisam said:
Rather than not leaving, yesTOPPING said:
No that is not an answer. Not what should have happened. Do you want or would you be happy with no deal now?isam said:
I think I did answer, I didn’t want no deal but it should have been the default if parliament wouldn’t agree Mays Deal. Now the people who try to block the ref vote have no downside, it’s a free hit for them. A complete stitch up.TOPPING said:
Sam did you answer (apologies you may have) the question as to whether from here, from this point on, would you prefer to or be happy to have a "no deal"?isam said:
The general public would not have been irate if Mays Deal had been agreed by cabinet and signed off. The whole palava is down to Grieve getting people he knew would try and overturn the people’s vote to have the final say.williamglenn said:
Come off it, Sam. Surely you’d agree that if they took your suggestion of starting with BINO, other Brexiteers would call it a stitch up. The problem is that there is nothing deliverable that has a consensus behind it.isam said:
It’s the public that want Brexit and the politicians saying ‘Er’AlastairMeeks said:
What do we want? Brexit!isam said:
The fact we are where we are and most people on here don’t think of it as the most incredible parliamentary stitch up is amazing.CD13 said:See, I told you so, allowing MPs to grandstand and bring in party politics was never going to work.
MPs: We'll leave the decision to you.
Public: A massive turnout and a decision made.
MPs: We need to be involved and make the final decision.
MPs: We can't make a final decision, we need a new referendum.
What type of Brexit do we want? Er.
The whole point was this was never meant to be about politicians
The whole point of the referendum was to take it out of politicians hands, but they can’t bring themselves to behave.0 -
At least she can bring back MV73 (or whatever we're up to now) in the new session.edmundintokyo said:Ooh, good point here:
https://twitter.com/Staedtler/status/1116243065021325312
Dunno, I guess the DUP will vote for her new Queen's Speech in exchange for more bribes?0
